One of the most common claims you hear around these parts since Blu-ray's defeat of HD DVD is that Blu-ray is doomed to failure at the hands of movie downloads. I find this idea farfetched for the following reasons:

1. Its inconvenient in many cases (9 hours to download 1 movie off XBOX Live is ridiculous). I know it is a much shorter wait in many cases (such as VOD) but that is still for a movie with inferior picture and sound. Let me give one more example, say I just got paid and I have a few movies in mind that I want to go out and buy (as I often do), well for the download method I would have to wait for those several movies to download before I can do anything with them. I am sure if we are talking about owning movies that it would be quicker and more fulfilling to go buy the Blu-ray titles than waiting for all of them to download.

2. Lack of sufficient storage capacity. Even with compressed-all-to-hell video quality @ 5-10GB how many movies can you fit on your harddrive? Especially if it is your 20GB XBOX 360 harddrive that already has a bunch of stuff on it? 1, 2, or maybe 3? No, not until multi-terabyte harddrives are ubiquitous and affordable will downloads have a chance of becoming the dominant HD format.

3. Current bandwidths could not support it as the dominant form of HD media distribution all over the world. Well, not if we are talking about getting the same quality as Blu-ray provides.

4. Cost. I mean why would I want to pay $5.99 to rent a HD movie from Comcast VOD when I can get unlimited Blu-ray rentals a month for just $8.99 a month. Or hell, for about three or four times that price I can just buy the movie and own it in pristine quality for all time.

5. You can't loan or borrow downloads the way you can a physical Blu-ray disc. I mean, if I buy something I should have a right to loan it to a friend or family member. You can't easily do that with downloads.

6. You can't sell a downloaded movie you purchased. On the other hand, you can always sell a Blu-ray movie if you decide you no longer want it, to recoup some of what you spent on it.

7. If your harddrive crashes you lose your entire collection of movies. Unless you can afford to back up your entire collection on another multi-terabyte capacity harddrive.

8. And the biggest reason of all: QUALITY! Why in the world would I bother to download a movie if I am looking for superior quality. The downloads look like complete and utter crap compared to the same titles on Blu-ray. They are in 720p instead of 1080p, are filled with digital compression artifacts, and have low quality audio. I can honestly say that my upconverted DVDs look and sound better than those downloads overall.

I can't understand why people think downloads are going to be anything but an ancillary method of getting HD content for the next few years. VOD (video on demand) is fine if you just want to watch a movie some night and you don't care so much about quality. But when it comes to owning the movie and caring about the quality of its picture and sound I just don't see downloads posing any threat to physical media--at least not for quite a few years.

And why is it that when the format war was being waged nobody tried to claim that HDM on disc was a lost cause. No, all the talk was about how whoever won the format war would succeed the dvd as the next-gen format of choice. Now all of a sudden because Blu-ray won the format race all the trolls come out of the woodwork claiming that HDM on disc was never going to succeed anyway and that it is downloads (or something else) that is really going to take the cake.

I just find it very shameful that so many HD DVD supporters are bitter to the point of doing everything they can to see Blu-ray fail, spreading FUD all over the net. So many of those very same people argued vehemently for the supposed slight visual and aural superiority of their favored format (remember all that VC-1 talk) and yet now many of them claim downloads are ready to be the dominant format. Am I missing something? 720p with compression artifacts and low quality audio is now good enough?

No offense dude, but tons of threads have been opened on this same subject. Just beating a dead horse here.

Fact of the matter is, until there's a point when your average Joe (ie, my dad) can purchase or download 720p (let alone 1080p) in a matter of minutes to his Set top box or whatever, packaged media is going nowhere.

I think people overestimate the unwillingness of the public to pay money for something they can't physically hold in their hands.

We are many many years away from digital downloads and I'm willing to bet it will be decades before a digital delivery completely replaces physical media. What is more likely in the short term is that digital rentals will replace physical store like Blockbuster and Rogers Video etc.. With Digital rental and Blu-ray as the 2 sources of delivery.

Digital downloads will remain a great way to RENT movies, but thats it.

Once this is released in Q4 2008, Blu-Ray is going to die off in 2009.

Full 1080p & Hi Def Audio Downloads!!!!!!!!!!!
XstreamHD
http://www.xstreamhd.com/index.html

Full 1080p
Full 7.1
DTS HD Master Audio
etc.

Just to add a view:

Key Features and Benefits
Wall-mountable design allows for convenient and
discrete installation.
Stores and delivers Full HD 1080p video quality
and up to 7.1 channels of lossless DTS Master
Audio
Adaptive Recording ensures accurate recording
of HDTV programming
NVR can simulataiously record up to 3 Broadcast
HDTV programs
Distributes four Full HD streams simultaneously
throughout your homeHeuristic software continuously delivers
customized content
Available with 500 GB, 1 TB, or 2 TB of easily
expandable storageDigital Living Network Alliance (DLNA) v1.5
Certified Digital Media Server
Includes Personal PBX business class phone
system with individual extensions, voicemail and
on-screen caller ID. Suitable for business or
personal use.
Remote access over the internet
Key Features and Benefits
• Full HD Video (1080P)
• High Profile/High Level (80 Mbps)
• 96kHz/24 bit Audio
• Fan-less Design
• Solid State Drive
• Trick Modes
• RF Remote Control
• HDMI 1.3 Audio
• Gigabit DLNA Player

One of the most common claims you hear around these parts since Blu-ray's defeat of HD DVD is that Blu-ray is doomed to failure at the hands of movie downloads. I find this idea farfetched for the following reasons:

1. Its inconvenient in many cases (9 hours to download 1 movie off XBOX Live is ridiculous). I know it is a much shorter wait in many cases (such as VOD) but that is still for a movie with inferior picture and sound. Let me give one more example, say I just got paid and I have a few movies in mind that I want to go out and buy (as I often do), well for the download method I would have to wait for those several movies to download before I can do anything with them. I am sure if we are talking about owning movies that it would be quicker and more fulfilling to go buy the Blu-ray titles than waiting for all of them to download.
See point 4. And for the record it takes me about 10 mins of buffer time to play a hd movie usually.

2. Lack of sufficient storage capacity. Even with compressed-all-to-hell video quality @ 5-10GB how many movies can you fit on your harddrive? Especially if it is your 20GB XBOX 360 harddrive that already has a bunch of stuff on it? 1, 2, or maybe 3? No, not until multi-terabyte harddrives are ubiquitous and affordable will downloads have a chance of becoming the dominant HD format.
since when is the best/only way to have movies the buy market? with the xbox live service i dont want to own the movies. what i do want is to pay a monthly fee (like netflix) and be able to rent any movie i want and rent from a large archive which is better and cheaper than having to own a collection of movies.

3. Current bandwidths could not support it as the dominant form of HD media distribution all over the world. Well, not if we are talking about getting the same quality as Blu-ray provides.
bandwith is already there for many people and is only going to improve as time goes by. it is an issue for some.

4. Cost. I mean why would I want to pay $5.99 to rent a HD movie from Comcast VOD when I can get unlimited Blu-ray rentals a month for just $8.99 a month. Or hell, for about three or four times that price I can just buy the movie and own it in pristine quality for all time.
that is one of my problems with the current style but why do you have no problem waiting 48+ hrs to get a movie when you could be watching a few hrs later (you contradict yourself with point 1). there is a reason the rent market is as big as it is. 95% of movies made nobody in their right might would want to watch more than once so why pay 3x (factoring in recouped money selling the disc) as much to own something you will only watch once?

5. You can't loan or borrow downloads the way you can a physical Blu-ray disc. I mean, if I buy something I should have a right to loan it to a friend or family member. You can't easily do that with downloads. You can take your hard drive off your 360 and bring it to a friends house and play the content.... thats about as useful as finding somebody who actually has a bluray player currently.

6. You can't sell a downloaded movie you purchased. On the other hand, you can always sell a Blu-ray movie if you decide you no longer want it, to recoup some of what you spent on it.
you are still losing more money doing this that just renting movies you want to watch only one time. i know this goes against the avs principle but i have moved on from buying. i will never buy movies again. i netflix now and the reason i like downloads is i think they are the next generation of netflix where it has the business model of netflix and the immediacy to watch anything i want at any time. no more managing queues, waiting 48+ hrs to get a movie. there is something very cool about picking a movie and starting it mins later.

7. If your harddrive crashes you lose your entire collection of movies. Unless you can afford to back up your entire collection on another multi-terabyte capacity harddrive.
using xbox live again.... it marks your account so you can redownload your purchased stuff as many times as you want.

8. And the biggest reason of all: QUALITY! Why in the world would I bother to download a movie if I am looking for superior quality. The downloads look like complete and utter crap compared to the same titles on Blu-ray. They are in 720p instead of 1080p, are filled with digital compression artifacts, and have low quality audio. I can honestly say that my upconverted DVDs look and sound better than those downloads overall.
quality has always been a very subjective thing to me.... the 360 downloads look excellent on my setup and look damn close to the best of hd-dvd/bluray. its in no way, shape or form "utter crap" compared to bluray. on my setup downloads are about 90-95% the quality of the best looking hd movies. thats certainly close enough for me that when the better experience of downloads outweigh the quality differences and the reason i have no problem with downloading.

We can all use HD DVD players with this service. They are all DLNA-compliant :rolleyes:

Press Room
XStreamHD™ Unveils First-Ever Transport Network To Deliver
High-Definition Movies, Music, and More Directly to the Home at CES 2008

MCLEAN, VA – January 8, 2008 – XStreamHD, revolutionizing the delivery and distribution of Full HD entertainment to the home, today unveiled at CES 2008 (Sands Booth #71838) the first-ever transport network to deliver movies, TV, music, electronic games, and more in Full HD (1080p) video and 7.1 channels of DTS-HD Master Audio™, directly to consumers, via satellite.

“We’ve worked hard to address the real needs consumers have and find the solutions they’re looking for. What they’re missing is access to Full HD content,” said XStreamHD Founder and CEO George Gonzalez. “Today is all about Full HD. We are pleased to announce that we are the first to deliver Full HD and 7.1 channels of lossless audio directly to your home.”

The XStreamHD Revolution
XStreamHD is leading the Full HD revolution with the first transport network to bring 1080p video and 7.1 channels of lossless audio directly to the home via satellite. Never before has there been a home theater experience that combines all of the features, quality, value, and convenience that consumers want. XStreamHD offers affordable access to the highest quality HD movies, music, broadcast TV, electronic games, and more – without the limitations of programming schedules, storage space, or physical media, and without the hassles of video rental stores, slow mail service, or out-of-stock titles. With XStreamHD, consumers will never miss the new releases or the broadcast HD content they love. The hottest movies and new releases are delivered via satellite, while vintage titles may be delivered over a broadband Internet connection.

With XStreamHD, consumers can build a customized, unique, and unparalleled in-home entertainment network and enjoy the content they want most, when it’s most convenient, anywhere in the home, and at the quality today’s home theaters were designed to support. Only XStreamHD’s proprietary technology delivers video in Full HD (1080p) – twice the quality of current cable and satellite offerings – and up to 7.1 channels of lossless audio, achieving sound quality that is identical to the studio master and surpassing any other direct-to-home service available.

The complete XStreamHD solution includes three core components that are quickly and easily installed by the user or, if preferred, by a qualified technician. The first is a small outdoor satellite antenna that captures multiple streams of Full HD content delivered by XStreamHD through existing standard geosynchronous satellites. From the dish, titles are stored centrally in the XStreamHD Media Server located inside the home. The Media Server stores your pre-selected titles in your Virtual Personal Library™ until you access them with any XStreamHD Media Receiver or DLNA-compliant device throughout your XStreamHD home network.

Pricing & Availability
The XStreamHD solution will be available to consumers in early Q4 2008. The introductory price for a complete XStreamHD home solution, including a Media Server and a Media Receiver, is available to initial subscribers starting at just $399.

Featured System Highlights

Satellite delivery of Full HD 1080p video, MPEG-2 or MPEG-4/H.264 in 4:3 or 16:9 screen formats

Satellite delivery of up to 7.1 channels 96kHz/24bits of lossless DTS-HD™ Master Audio

View four Full HD video streams simultaneously throughout the home

Learns users’ choices and preferences to adopt their entertainment profile and continuously updates the Virtual Personal Library™ with titles
they’re likely to enjoy

Equipped with three ATSC tuners and a Network Video Recorder for viewing and recording three HDTV broadcasts at the same time – even while watching a fourth selection from your Virtual Personal Library™

Patent Pending Adaptive Recording™ ensures accurate recording of HDTV programs from start to finish, even if broadcast schedules change or are delayed

Easy-to-use on-screen menus to manage content preferences, parental controls, spending limits

DLNA v1.5 certified to integrate all compatible devices on the XStreamHD network

Dual slide-in drive bays enable scalable storage featuring Seagate® Technology hard drive storage – 500GB, 1 TB, 2 TB options – and the ability to configure an external storage subsystem via the eSATA interface

Includes a feature-rich Personal PBX business-class phone system; also supports VoIP calls and offers free calls between XStreamHD subscribers

Uses gigabit Ethernet (GigE) permitting the transfer of HD video and audio at 1 gbps throughout the home

HDMI interface simplifies installation and ensures signal integrity for vibrant 1080p video

Front panel USB port for MP3 audio downloads
http://www.xstreamhd.com/press.html

Fact of the matter is, until there's a point when your average Joe (ie, my dad) can purchase or download 720p (let alone 1080p) in a matter of minutes to his Set top box or whatever, packaged media is going nowhere.

I think people overestimate the unwillingness of the public to pay money for something they can't physically hold in their hands.

We are many many years away from digital downloads and I'm willing to bet it will be decades before a digital delivery completely replaces physical media. What is more likely in the short term is that digital rentals will replace physical store like Blockbuster and Rogers Video etc.. With Digital rental and Blu-ray as the 2 sources of delivery.

I completely agree eightninesuited. And you made an excellent point about people wanting to have something physical when they have paid good money. Especially if they have paid $15 to $20 for that thing.

I also agree with _Noah_ that digital downloads are fine for rentals but are a far way off from being sufficient for movies you love so much you want to add them to your personal collection.

We can all use HD DVD players with this service. They are all DLNA-compliant :rolleyes:


http://www.xstreamhd.com/press.html

That sounds great. But lots of unanswered questions: availability, content, etc.
And it still doesn't provide solutions for some of my concerns.

For example the harddrive capacities are still nowhere near being adequate for owning and storing a movie collection. How many movies can you own with a 500GB or even 2TB harddrive when movies are 50GB a piece?

So many of these arguments rest on the assumption that nobody wants to own a movie collection anymore.

Like I said, downloads have their place. And some of the upcoming technologies are really exciting and will most likely eventually do away with physical media. I'm just not convinced that its in our immediate future as a dominant form of distributing HD media.

Like I said, downloads have their place. And some of the upcoming technologies are really exciting and will most likely eventually do away with physical media. I'm just not convinced that its in our immediate future as a dominant form of distributing HD media.
Agreed. It will take a few years before downloaded media becomes significant.

I just went to that XStreamHD page and it left me skeptical. We're talking of another dish for those like me who have satellite TV, plus all this other equipment that honestly appears costly.

We can all use HD DVD players with this service. They are all DLNA-compliant :rolleyes:


http://www.xstreamhd.com/press.html

This sounds better than what we're seeing now for streaming movies, but no mention of price per rental. The start up cost is pretty high too at $400 for the set top box. Comcast is charging $5.99 for an HD rental, so i would assume this service would cost slightly more. They do mention storage options of 2TB and probably external through USB. If you add in the cost of the storage at about .50 per Gb, a 25gb movie will cost 12.50 just for the storage space. Even as that price drops in half, that's still 6.25 + the unknown cost to download it. Again, I dont see this replacing Blu-ray anytime soon.

Once this is released in Q4 2008, Blu-Ray is going to die off in 2009.

Full 1080p & Hi Def Audio Downloads!!!!!!!!!!!
XstreamHD
http://www.xstreamhd.com/index.html

Full 1080p
Full 7.1
DTS HD Master Audio
etc.

Just to add a view:

It'll be great if you can get all that for $150. Because as we know from these forums $150 is all the HD DVD crowd is willing to spend on HD.;)

Once this is released in Q4 2008, Blu-Ray is going to die off in 2009.


I will go out on a limb and say that J6P will avoid this thing like the plague.

Everyone can understand and afford a basic BD player and discs. Everyone can go into BB or use Netflix to order discs.

Not everyone can or will want to have anything to do with a satellite based solution. There is a reason a lot of people are stuck with Comcast.

No offense dude, but tons of threads have been opened on this same subject. Just beating a dead horse here.

No kidding. I wouldn't mind, but his arguments are so stagnant and absolute as to make his entire point worthless.

It would be like me going back in time and trying this out in regards to hdtv's.

"Oh, they'll never make it, they're too big, too expensive, unnecessary......"


Blah blah blah.....

This guy makes you wonder how we ever invented the candle, much less the lightbulb.:rolleyes:

Downloads will put a chunk in rentals but not people wanting to BUY. Currently nothing allows you to BUY an HD movie and re watch it whenever you want. All current download services are aimed at people renting movies.

PPV has been around since the early 80's and that did not stop VHS or DVD sales.

Why are Blu-Ray supporters so worried about downloads if they feel there is no threat. Stick to your Blu-Ray threads and allow those who wish to discuss DVHS, HD-DVD, HD Downloads, and Flash Based Media to ourselves. Thsi thread is flamebait just looking for a fight.

It really sickes me to see Blu-Ray dominant in the marketplace, yet a rougue few still have to pick fights and start beefs with those of us that wish to discuss other format ideas.

OP and some people mixed up rental market and buy-to-own market. They are quite different market, in fact. As OP pointed out, Digital-download is quite unfit for buy-to-own movie market. But it is near perfect medium for rental.

In OP, objection point 2, 5, 6, 7 does not apply to rental market. On point 1, 3, 4 , as time goes by, bandwidth will be faster and become less of problem within few years. Quality matters less on rental market and will improve quickly with larger bandwidth, too.

So all the matters boil down to one thing: bandwidth. In Korea and Japan, two of most well-wired countries in the world and broadband Heaven, 30% of broadband subscribers are already using 100 M bps class optical connection, which is more than enough for HD VOD service on the spot. And its service penetration is improving fast. U.S. will follow the suits fast after them.
...
With Digital rental and Blu-ray as the 2 sources of delivery.
I think that rental business will be ruled by Digital-download and physical rental on flash memory. For buy-to-own movies, Blue-ray and DVD will be king.
.

Why are Blu-Ray supporters so worried about downloads if they feel there is no threat. Stick to your Blu-Ray threads and allow those who wish to discuss DVHS, HD-DVD, HD Downloads, and Flash Based Media to ourselves. Thsi thread is flamebait just looking for a fight.

It really sickes me to see Blu-Ray dominant in the marketplace, yet a rougue few still have to pick fights and start beefs with those of us that wish to discuss other format ideas.

I've noticed that a lot of Blu-Ray fans seem to attack anybody who doesn't "toe the party line". I'm an HD DVD supporter and I don't support download sales, I prefer to own something physical, but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't be allowed to talk about it, or any other format they want.

Its not that downloads are a threat to bluray becoming the physical media standard but rather it will prevent bluray from ever becoming as successful as DVD was. You must understand that the shrinking sales of DVD are a result of VOD, video sharing sites like youtube and torrent downloads. Theres also other venues of entertainment such as browsing the net on forums and sites that concern topics that you're really interested in.

When DVD first came to market there was no VOD or movies posted for download. The internet was still growing and most people were still using dial up. VHS had been around for decades and had run its course.

Right now people are still happy with DVD and most that I've met shake there heads when they hear about bluray. They are surprised that something new is out when they just bought into DVD less than 10yrs ago. Every single person I've talked to has said point blank that they won't buy any movie over again that they already own on DVD. You can correct me if I'm wrong but I never heard anyone say that they won't re buy a movie they own on VHS when DVD came out. In fact, in my experience people mostly used their VCR's to record and only rented movies. However, when DVD came it was such a superior product that people felt comfortable purchasing not only new movies but catalog titles.

Look CD's are still the defacto physical medium for music but sales are way way down from just 10 yrs ago. MP3s are inferior in sound quality to CDs but do people really care? We care about quality but thats us not the general folks out there.

I guarantee you that J6P would be very happy watching a 720p download because there won't be a sales person in his house telling him that its not "Full HD"

I find it hilarious that people believe that J6P can't figure out Blu-ray (box + movie + cable + HDTV), but CAN figure out the 900 forms of digital downloads out there (Box + Service + Cables + HDTV + channel surfing/PC interface/hard drive +...).

It seems to me that Blu-ray is very easy to figure out now that we only have one format. I see lots of people in Best Buy switching over, talking about how it's the future.

And not just the salesmen.

One of the most common claims you hear around these parts since Blu-ray's defeat of HD DVD is that Blu-ray is doomed to failure at the hands of movie downloads. I find this idea farfetched for the following reasons:

1. Its inconvenient in many cases (9 hours to download 1 movie off XBOX Live is ridiculous). I know it is a much shorter wait in many cases (such as VOD) but that is still for a movie with inferior picture and sound. Let me give one more example, say I just got paid and I have a few movies in mind that I want to go out and buy (as I often do), well for the download method I would have to wait for those several movies to download before I can do anything with them. I am sure if we are talking about owning movies that it would be quicker and more fulfilling to go buy the Blu-ray titles than waiting for all of them to download.

2. Lack of sufficient storage capacity. Even with compressed-all-to-hell video quality @ 5-10GB how many movies can you fit on your harddrive? Especially if it is your 20GB XBOX 360 harddrive that already has a bunch of stuff on it? 1, 2, or maybe 3? No, not until multi-terabyte harddrives are ubiquitous and affordable will downloads have a chance of becoming the dominant HD format.

3. Current bandwidths could not support it as the dominant form of HD media distribution all over the world. Well, not if we are talking about getting the same quality as Blu-ray provides.

4. Cost. I mean why would I want to pay $5.99 to rent a HD movie from Comcast VOD when I can get unlimited Blu-ray rentals a month for just $8.99 a month. Or hell, for about three or four times that price I can just buy the movie and own it in pristine quality for all time.

5. You can't loan or borrow downloads the way you can a physical Blu-ray disc. I mean, if I buy something I should have a right to loan it to a friend or family member. You can't easily do that with downloads.

6. You can't sell a downloaded movie you purchased. On the other hand, you can always sell a Blu-ray movie if you decide you no longer want it, to recoup some of what you spent on it.

7. If your harddrive crashes you lose your entire collection of movies. Unless you can afford to back up your entire collection on another multi-terabyte capacity harddrive.

8. And the biggest reason of all: QUALITY! Why in the world would I bother to download a movie if I am looking for superior quality. The downloads look like complete and utter crap compared to the same titles on Blu-ray. They are in 720p instead of 1080p, are filled with digital compression artifacts, and have low quality audio. I can honestly say that my upconverted DVDs look and sound better than those downloads overall.

I can't understand why people think downloads are going to be anything but an ancillary method of getting HD content for the next few years. VOD (video on demand) is fine if you just want to watch a movie some night and you don't care so much about quality. But when it comes to owning the movie and caring about the quality of its picture and sound I just don't see downloads posing any threat to physical media--at least not for quite a few years.

And why is it that when the format war was being waged nobody tried to claim that HDM on disc was a lost cause. No, all the talk was about how whoever won the format war would succeed the dvd as the next-gen format of choice. Now all of a sudden because Blu-ray won the format race all the trolls come out of the woodwork claiming that HDM on disc was never going to succeed anyway and that it is downloads (or something else) that is really going to take the cake.

I just find it very shameful that so many HD DVD supporters are bitter to the point of doing everything they can to see Blu-ray fail, spreading FUD all over the net. So many of those very same people argued vehemently for the supposed slight visual and aural superiority of their favored format (remember all that VC-1 talk) and yet now many of them claim downloads are ready to be the dominant format. Am I missing something? 720p with compression artifacts and low quality audio is now good enough?

First of all, if it takes you 9 hours to download a movie off of Live, you have bigger problems. Most of the time I download a movie of Xbox Live, it takes an hour or less.

Realistically, how many movies do most consumers buy vs. rent? Big contrast. Most will rent many movies and only buy the faves.

Regarding storage, if you rent it on live, you get it for 24 hours. I have tons of arcade titles and saved games and have yet to run out of space. Again, most people will watch a movie, discard it. Just like Blockbuster or Netflix, you rent, you return.

Bandwidth is getting better and better, but the argument can simply be- BD players won't get down in price quick enough for consumers to adopt, especially when they can click a few buttons on Comcast or Xbox Live and have instant gratification. Think about, how many of the masses even realize they need HD programming for the HD TV? Not many. And now that the BD group has claimed victory, why do they need to drop prices? I guarantee that you won't see BOGO much anymore.

Let's talk cost- $400-$500 for a BD player and $25-29 a movie. Then there's a thing called value. Do I really want to go buy a BD player for $400 on top of the $3000 I spent on my HD TV and then pay $25 a pop for a movie when I can watch an SD movie on my HD TV and settle for it. If I really want to go quality, I will rent an HD movie on Comcast or Live and save some bucks. Value is Starz VOD. $9.99 a month and you can stream movies to your 360. When they finally get rolling in their deal with Universal and Paramount, it's beyond value.

Ok, let's talk quality. You are talking about you. You are talking about a niche group of hardcore quality freaks who actually do care about quality. We are the ones who are here and not very more are coming. The masses have no clue about quality, pixels, BD, HD-DVD, DLP, LCD or Plasma. This is exactly why DVD will be around for a very long, long time. Regardless of HD On Demand or BD. Factor in the prices of everything from gas and milk to video game titles, I think most people will stick with the low quality Enhanced Definition TV's and DVD. And let's face it, the consumers didn't choose an HD format, the studios did.

I find it hilarious that people believe that J6P can't figure out Blu-ray (box + movie + cable + HDTV), but CAN figure out the 900 forms of digital downloads out there (Box + Service + Cables + HDTV + channel surfing/PC interface/hard drive +...).

It seems to me that Blu-ray is very easy to figure out now that we only have one format. I see lots of people in Best Buy switching over, talking about how it's the future.

And not just the salesmen.

Here's how it figures for the next year- BD players for $399, dropping slightly to $349 on special sales for at least the next year. BD titles, $25 is the sweetspot. Had HD-DVD won, the masses would have probably more quickly come on board.

No kidding. I wouldn't mind, but his arguments are so stagnant and absolute as to make his entire point worthless.

It would be like me going back in time and trying this out in regards to hdtv's.

"Oh, they'll never make it, they're too big, too expensive, unnecessary......"


Blah blah blah.....

This guy makes you wonder how we ever invented the candle, much less the lightbulb.:rolleyes:


Its real easy to attack someone personally but I don't see you adding anything of value to the conversation. I wrote this post because I was seeing so many absolute statements and claims about why Blu-ray is doomed that I felt the need to post some of my objections to the suitability of downloads when it comes to aquiring/owning a HD movie collection.
I am not saying these problems won't be solved but I just don't see it happening any time in the immediate future (within the next few years let's say).
You sound like the typical bitter HD DVD supporter that is wallowing in a perspective of sour grapes who can't stand the fact that Blu-ray won and now has all his hopes pinned on downloads for defeating Blu-ray.

Why are Blu-Ray supporters so worried about downloads if they feel there is no threat. Stick to your Blu-Ray threads and allow those who wish to discuss DVHS, HD-DVD, HD Downloads, and Flash Based Media to ourselves. Thsi thread is flamebait just looking for a fight.

It really sickes me to see Blu-Ray dominant in the marketplace, yet a rougue few still have to pick fights and start beefs with those of us that wish to discuss other format ideas.

Ok Mr. Righteous but why does every Blu-ray related post have to be clogged with the same rehashed arguments from bitter HD DVD supporters telling us how Blu-ray stands no chance against downloads?

I asked legitimate and worthwhile questions so why does my post have to be flamebait? Only because rabid HD DVD fanboys can't stand to be questioned about anything that has a chance of beating the evil Blu-ray.

OP and some people mixed up rental market and buy-to-own market. They are quite different market, in fact. As OP pointed out, Digital-download is quite unfit for buy-to-own movie market. But it is near perfect medium for rental.

In OP, objection point 2, 5, 6, 7 does not apply to rental market. On point 1, 3, 4 , as time goes by, bandwidth will be faster and become less of problem within few years. Quality matters less on rental market and will improve quickly with larger bandwidth, too.

So all the matters boil down to one thing: bandwidth. In Korea and Japan, two of most well-wired countries in the world and broadband Heaven, 30% of broadband subscribers are already using 100 M bps class optical connection, which is more than enough for HD VOD service on the spot. And its service penetration is improving fast. U.S. will follow the suits fast after them.

I think that rental business will be ruled by Digital-download and physical rental on flash memory. For buy-to-own movies, Blue-ray and DVD will be king.
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Yeah, I'm sorry. I could have made it a little more clear what I was talking about. I thought it would be clear enough since most of my points either directly refered to owning or otherwise implied it. But I did add in a few comments about renting and those are probably what confused things for some people.
Even in the case of renting I don't believe downloads are unequivocably superior to renting Blu-ray titles. I can see the two distribution methods coexisting. And I know that I would likely continue to find reasons to use them both.
People who think downloads are not only going to be the dominant rental standard but also dominate movie ownership distribution have yet to give any sensible reasons for believing so. It amounts to no more than wishfull thinking.

we have a Master thread for this here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=874782

we have discussed this same argument several hundred times already