I mean, there's no reason why the downloadable trailers, clips, features can't be put on the discs themselves. And the trivia or questions, would get a wider audience on some universally accessed website. They all just seem like useless gimmicks to me.

Downloadable subtitles or menu skins (like in Transformers) are really the only cool things I can think of. And again, there's no reason they couldn't have been on the disc from the get go. So, what are some real internet features you'd like to see? Are there any? As it stands, I think its just energy and money better spend elsewhere on the disc and features.

Edit: In the future, it could also lead to the attitude of "Well, now we don't even have to have all our features ready at launch, we can just create them later and make people download them." I'm not saying they will, but it could result in some laziness in the area of extra material.

I agree. I can't see myself using any internet features that are currently available. I just want to see the movie/deleted scenes. Maybe the director commentary in a few isolated cases.

Shared viewing for as used on HD DVDs was cool. Updated trailers and scenes and commentaries. Fresh updated content. Stuff created after the disc is mastered for a successful title.

The point is, they want to open another revenue stream through advertising.

It's also an attempt to hide what they're really using the internet connectivity for (tracking, getting stats on your viewing habits, etc.) to sell as another revenue stream, or to keep tabs on piracy.

Every time you stick a blu-ray disc in a PS3, that disc is logged. Stats are kept. Also, if you view your blu-ray 5 times, then the same coded blu-ray shows up on a torrent site (imbedded information in the movie matches your original to the torrent) they know exactly who to prosecute.

Internet features may be useful if the Studios feature

1) Downloading of HD trailiers
2) Additional subtitles
3) Additional trivia tracks
4) Behind the scenes footage
5) Scheduled chat with cast or production crew
6) Community screening

About the only good thing I can think of is the ability to directly download player fw updates, otherwise I could do without it to be honest.

The point is, they want to open another revenue stream through advertising.

It's also an attempt to hide what they're really using the internet connectivity for (tracking, getting stats on your viewing habits, etc.) to sell as another revenue stream, or to keep tabs on piracy.

Every time you stick a blu-ray disc in a PS3, that disc is logged. Stats are kept. Also, if you view your blu-ray 5 times, then the same coded blu-ray shows up on a torrent site (imbedded information in the movie matches your original to the torrent) they know exactly who to prosecute.

Do you know this for a fact? So far, pressed discs haven't had any kind of unique identifier per disc. I'm not sure whether something like that could be done without greatly increasing manufacturing costs.

Every time you stick a blu-ray disc in a PS3, that disc is logged. Stats are kept. Also, if you view your blu-ray 5 times, then the same coded blu-ray shows up on a torrent site (imbedded information in the movie matches your original to the torrent) they know exactly who to prosecute.

So how do they track it when people get discs from Netflix or Blockbuster?

One thing I hate is the forced viewing of trailers at the beginning of the disc because chances are, they are outdated by your second viewing.

With that said, with internet connectivity, you can, instead see new trailers that are targeted towards fans of the movie being viewed. I'd rather see this than to see the same old trailers... But I'd rather not see any... or at least be able to skip them.

I agree with jonabbey -- pressed discs do not contain unique identifiers. Computer video games bough on CD/DVD come with serial numbers and may require internet activation, but it does not use a unique id for each disc. If it was a feasible solution, I'm sure they'd do it. Also... just because the player may have internet connectivity, doesn't mean they will force one to have internet connectivity in order to watch a movie... Can you imagine the support calls they would get from people...

Person: "My movie won't play".
Tech Support:"Make sure your internet connection is working, and try again"
Person: "My internet is on my computer... I only download the internet on my computer"
Tech Support: "<pause> I think we have a bad connection... i dont..... <hangs up>"

I think the main problem with internet connectivity is that it will not be a widely used feature.... at least not outside the enthusiasts and perhaps younger generations and that is only if they can offer something extremely useful, I don't think internet connectivity will be a big hit. To me, it feels like a gimmick.

Internet features may be useful if the Studios feature

1) Downloading of HD trailiers
2) Additional subtitles
3) Additional trivia tracks
4) Behind the scenes footage
5) Scheduled chat with cast or production crew
6) Community screening

HDM disc itself has its own share of HD trailers and ads, why want more? Trivia & other extras are already there right in the disc itself. If movie studio would release those free-of-charge via Internet after disc release, why didn't they put those on disc? What is the benefits to movie studio or consumer, of putting those extras on Internet, not on disc?

Or will studio put additional extra contents after releasing the movie? I think that movie studio has no incentive to do so and will do very rarely, if ever they do. Only occasion I can come up with is fixing faulty contents that cause player to lock-up or crash, which is kind of bug fix. Bug fixing after release is very rare in movie industry, which is quite different from computer game industry.

PC with keyboard and mouse, connected to Internet can handle chatting with cast/crew and Community screening much better than HDM player with remote.

If you have PC, the only real advantage of HDM player with Ethernet port seems to be just additional subtitles. But, it is useful for only fraction of people who can't appreciate included languages / dubs / subs. Then, it is quite probable that the disc is being played outside of country where it is originally released and sold. This situation can be handled if the HDM player supports external subtitle file on USB memory. User will downloads subtitle file from Internet at PC and transfers it to HDM player via USB stick memory. The subtitle file is encrypted with key that comes with the HDM movie disc so that the player with the matching HDM movie disc in it can decrypt and play the subtitle file correctly.

Internet feature of current HDM player is just an answer waiting for valid question.

Before so-called "Home networking/automation" become ubiquitous in our home, I can not see any valid question for it.
.

Internet features aren't as useless as some of you may think.

Shrek3 is a good example of what it's capable of. There were already 3 downloadable features released.

BTW:The OPs comment about putting the extras on the disc instead is insane. How could they put things on the disc that aren't available at the time of mastering?

It's like you say: Hey,why is there Windows 98? Seriously why hasn't Microsoft put XP on the disc instead?

And the easy answer: Because it wasn't available to date.

Having a BD player plugged into the internet makes as much sense as having my oven plugged into the internet.

Do you know this for a fact? So far, pressed discs haven't had any kind of unique identifier per disc. I'm not sure whether something like that could be done without greatly increasing manufacturing costs.

But the HDM player has few unique numbers: like HDCP key to protect copyright, unique 40 bit Ethernet address, and IP address. So combination of player unique id + the movie master id (= title name) can be very valuable marketing information. If such informations are accumulated enough for each players, movie studio can infer my taste on movie genre, style, favorite actors/actresses, approximate age, sex, education, social class, ethnic group or language I use, circadian rhythm, weekly cycle, even political tendency, etc. From IP address, they can infer local region or state where I live in.

They may use these informations/preferences to choose movie trailers / merchandise / service advertisement to show on my player. They may show me advertisement of political candidate campaign or adult toy shop in my neighborhood! :)
.

Having a BD player plugged into the internet makes as much sense as having my oven plugged into the internet.

+1

:D

Internet features aren't as useless as some of you may think.

Shrek3 is a good example of what it's capable of. There were already 3 downloadable features released.

BTW:The OPs comment about putting the extras on the disc instead is insane. How could they put things on the disc that aren't available at the time of mastering?

It's like you say: Hey,why is there Windows 98? Seriously why hasn't Microsoft put XP on the disc instead?

And the easy answer: Because it wasn't available to date.

Your logic is insane. What's stopping them from planning and completing all the content before it's mastered?

It's like you say, "Hey here's Window's 98 but we haven't completed Internet Explorer yet. So, why don't you check back in 3 weeks and download it then."

And the easy answer: Complete all content before mastering (It was never an issue for DVD released material in the past 10+ years). And if there is a ton on content they want to release later, make and release a special edition for those who want it.

Having a BD player plugged into the internet makes as much sense as having my oven plugged into the internet.

+1

So in comparison the BD is the oven whereas the HD-DVD is the refrigerator ;)

Do you know this for a fact? So far, pressed discs haven't had any kind of unique identifier per disc. I'm not sure whether something like that could be done without greatly increasing manufacturing costs.

No, but I'm convinced it's the future. They're already imbedding identifying watermarks in movies themselves. Or so I've read.

So in comparison the BD is the oven whereas the HD-DVD is the refrigerator ;)

Don't underestimate microwave oven or refrigerator with built-in Ethernet port:

http://www.reviewsonline.com/articles/981057136.htm

http://www.reviewsonline.com/articles/980998102.htm

They are more useful than HDM player with Ethernet port.
Actually, LG Internet refrigerator is quite popular "home-networking" home appliance .

Don't underestimate microwave oven or refrigerator with built-in Ethernet port:

http://www.reviewsonline.com/articles/981057136.htm

http://www.reviewsonline.com/articles/980998102.htm

They are more useful than HDM player with Ethernet port.
Actually, LG Internet refrigerator is quite popular "home-networking" home appliance .


Yeah. That was why I said it. It was some kind of secret message :D

A refrigerator is cool and some of them have great internet features . So just like HD-DVD players :)

I would say they do use it for tracking when you use the online extra. They can use this to detrime what Areas are veiwing what then work with retailers to get related item or movies. Its not and exact discs ID but the movie it self.

I recall early HDTV magazines talking about interactive HDTV were you could respond to questions and such

But in the end its just a way for them to get you to spend more money that gos to them

What do you guys have to hide?

Seriously: I couldn't care less if some studio is spying me for my consumer behaves.

I have more problems with this dumb country spying for people with bank accounts in Liechtenstein.

Internet features aren't as useless as some of you may think.

Shrek3 is a good example of what it's capable of. There were already 3 downloadable features released.




Obviously how "useful" downloadable features are depends on what you're interested in, but frankly I agree with the OP.

I have to admit that I haven't tried the Internet features for any HD DVD's (haven't felt it worthwhile to even connect the player to the Internet yet), but according to this High-Def Digest article (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Exclusive_HD_Content/DreamWorks/New_Shrek_Specs_Promise_Several_HD_DVD_Firsts/1016) those three online features for Shrek the Third are "a full-length subtitle trivia track, a movie guide with files on characters and talent in the film, plus an interactive coloring book feature that allows you to digitally paint your favorite scenes"- and they were rreportedly available the day the disc was released. Wow, if that's your best example of what features are available for download, then I for one don't find Internet connectivity "useful". YMMV.

Just my 2¢

Most people who own only BlueRay "can't imagine themselves using internet interactive features" simply because they have yet to use them.Once most of you do get to use them when profile 2.0 players start selling, you will likely change your minds very fast.Most of us who also own/owned HD-DVD also got to expirience just how useful and relevant interactive features can be and most of us used them whenever they were included in whatever HD-DVD we may have been watching at the time, especially when they included interactive features like the ones found in the Transformers,Shrek 3,Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, and Freedom series of anime HD-DVDs.Upgrading the player bios through ethernet connection was/is also very convenient and easy to do, which adds even more value to having an internet connection on the players imo.

Since most folks who own current standalone BlueRay players(most PS3 owners have the unit hooked up to the internet)own players that aren't capable of connecting to the internet or being upgraded through internet connection and likely won't be going out and spending another 400+ on profile 2.0 players when they arrive in a few months, then of course most of you won't "have any use" or understand the usefulness of having the ethernet/internet connection in BlueRay players and won't understand how useful they can be listening to others who do have them or have used them.You all aren't likely to change your minds about it unless you expirience it for yourselves, so until you all do it's really hard to believe most of you would "never" have any use for the new features 2.0 will bring.

My vote is yes they are usless to me. I have had both both formats since early on and I have never accessed any online features that hd dvd has offered for sometime now. I will not feel any different about BD-LIVE. If I can get the definitive version of a film how the director envisioned it is enough to make me happy. Give me the best PQ and AQ and you can have my money....

I think some enjoy it but the majority just want a movie with the best aq and pq.

Every time you stick a blu-ray disc in a PS3, that disc is logged. Stats are kept. Also, if you view your blu-ray 5 times, then the same coded blu-ray shows up on a torrent site (imbedded information in the movie matches your original to the torrent) they know exactly who to prosecute.


Nice fear mongering!!! That would be simply BS.

Most people who own only BlueRay "can't imagine themselves using internet interactive features" simply because they have yet to use them

Exactly, People thought many things about the internet were useless at some point but there are limiteless options (think about buying things online, Cars, Audio equipment and so on ). People just cant think outside the box too much (Im happy they dont I make money because other people just cant think of new ways of doing things) :D

Example of a possible usage.....
Your movie you have owned for a year can ALWAYS show the latest trailers AND you could select ORDER NOW options right from the screen right then!! Or interactive online games with the movies for the kids, we could go on and on about the possibilities.


BTW, I agree 100% that today's internet features are kind of dumb and USELESS.

someone on this forum last year said [more or less]
the studio wants this all to happen.so like it or not ..its gonna happen.
hell these hi def players still have s video for a connection,how lame is that.

Most people who own only BlueRay "can't imagine themselves using internet interactive features" simply because they have yet to use them.Once most of you do get to use them when profile 2.0 players start selling, you will likely change your minds very fast.Most of us who also own/owned HD-DVD also got to expirience just how useful and relevant interactive features can be and most of us used them whenever they were included in whatever HD-DVD we may have been watching at the time, especially when they included interactive features like the ones found in the Transformers,Shrek 3,Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, and Freedom series of anime HD-DVDs.Upgrading the player bios through ethernet connection was/is also very convenient and easy to do, which adds even more value to having an internet connection on the players imo.

Since most folks who own current standalone BlueRay players(most PS3 owners have the unit hooked up to the internet)own players that aren't capable of connecting to the internet or being upgraded through internet connection and likely won't be going out and spending another 400+ on profile 2.0 players when they arrive in a few months, then of course most of you won't "have any use" or understand the usefulness of having the ethernet/internet connection in BlueRay players and won't understand how useful they can be listening to others who do have them or have used them.You all aren't likely to change your minds about it unless you expirience it for yourselves, so until you all do it's really hard to believe most of you would "never" have any use for the new features 2.0 will bring.

Maybe. I do enjoy the special features like actor/director commentaries that come on the discs sometimes, but except perhaps for certain favorite (and well done) blockbusters I personally often find special features poorly done and tedious, so I don't bother- even when they're right there on the disc. Based on what I've read about downloadable features, I believe that I would find Internet content even less useful.

I can certainly understand the "don't knock it until you've tried it" position, so perhaps it would help if the fans of the Internet content would list precisely what downloadable features they have found particularly worthwhile rather than just saying "xyzmoive's Internet content is great".

You listed several movies that you feel have worthwhile downloadable content. I've already listed the features of Shrek the Third. I suppose that I might look at the trivia subtitles if I already had an Internet connection to my player, but don't really have an interest in the coloring book, myself ;). What did you find so compelling?

You listed several other movies. Here's what I found on their downloadable content:

FREEDOM:1- anime (link) (http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/freedomvol1.html)

Unlock content on the disc with an online connection (why not just have it unlocked in the first place!?!)
Download the original Japanese commercial in SD
Access the series' prologue
Watch a trailer


High-Def Digests review of the disc concludes, "All in all, while the added features in this HD DVD edition of 'Freedom 1' are certainly a novelty, and demonstrate great potential for future releases, unfortunately there isn't enough quality content included here to really show them off." I'd have to agree.

HARRY POTTER and the ORDER OF THE PHOENIX (link) (http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1122/harrypotter_orderofthephoenix.html)


Live community screening (multiple viewers can watch the movie controlled by the "host" simultaneously and chat via their remote controls.)
Bookmark and share your favorite scenes with others online
Purchase ringtones, desktop patterns, and "widgets" online


Nope, nothing there "worth it"- to me at least.

TRANSFORMERS (link) (http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1110/transformers.html)


The "Intelligence Center" where you can download custom skins to watch the movie in (in a reduced screen). From the Intelligence Center you can:
Show the "Robot Status" onscreen whenever one of the Transformers is onscreen that keeps track of each robot's damage level
Show the "Data Manager" onscreen that lists the robot's vehicle type, weapons, etc.
Show "Alerts" popups with trivia
Show the "GPS Tracker" that shows where the robot is in the world


Also available online for Transformers:


A "Movie Guide" with a subtitle trivia track
"My Clips" that allows you to share scenes with others online
"Menubots" that allows you to customize your menus based on your favorite character


High-Def Digest's review concludes, "I should mention that the quality of these web-enabled features isn't likely to impress. With current HD DVD players limited to a maximum 168Mb of accessible storage, there's clearly not much room for truly exciting graphics or high-quality video and audio material. So while the coolness factor of web-enabled extras is still exciting -- it's all fresh and snazzy at this point -- I can't help but wonder, down the road, how compelling any of this material is going to be once the neat-o factor wears off."

I have to admit that I don't find any of that online content for Transformers compelling enough to bother with an online connection for my HD DVD player. I for one don't care for menus to begin with (except for accessing the features that I DO want- like lossless audio tracks) so I don't see why to bother with customizing them (except possibly to minimize them). Trivia subtitle tracks? I have HD media that have over 20 subtitle tracks on them- why not just include the trivia track on the disc as the OP suggested?

Updating online? Just yesterday I updated both my Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD player and Panasonic DMP-BD30 Blu-ray player by downloading and burning CD's with absolutely no problems. It's certainly not worth it to me to run ethernet wires or set up a wireless bridge to my media room just to update the players.

Nope, not I'm not convinced that Internet connectivity would be worthwhile for me. Maybe you can swing me over if you can tell me specifically what makes it so special for you. The Shrek coloring book? (jk) ;)

hell these hi def players still have s video for a connection,how lame is that.

lol, I just realized that :D

You know what is even more lame is the person buying the player and connecting it through S video to his NON-HD TV, does that person even exist? :eek:

lol, I just realized that :D

You know what is even more lame is the person buying the player and connecting it through S video to his NON-HD TV, does that person even exist? :eek:

good question!
heres another one: people buy hdtv's hook there sd dvd player to it and think they have hi-def.

If you don't see any reason for an Internet connection then go get a 1.1 player, watch your movies.

While my initial impressions of interactive content to date is not high, I do not want to limit myself to not having the ability to use them.

As with many things I'm sure the interactive features will get better as there is greater adoption and some creative folks start utilizing its potential.

If you don't see any reason for an Internet connection then go get a 1.1 player, watch your movies.

While my initial impressions of interactive content to date is not high, I do not want to limit myself to not having the ability to use them.

As with many things I'm sure the interactive features will get better as there is greater adoption and some creative folks start utilizing its potential.

I probably won't wait for a decent 2.0 SA to come out before I get a BD player, so I guess I will have to go for a 1.1... I can live without the internet extras, but I also like to have the ability to use them if and when needed. So by the time I get a second BD player, it will most certainly be a 2.0 one. And as you mention it, interactive features will sure get better, so who knows...

One thing is sure if eveyone thinks they are not going to constantly improve the players
they have not been in this hobby very long thats how they stay in business make it
better so you will buy it.

In my main HT the following are internet/network connected.

Reciever, Pio 94, media serving and internet and neural radio. Serial connection to the computer to download MCACC information.
DirecTiVo, programming guides, music and photo serving, multi room viewing file transfer, and TivoWeb management from the computer.
Series 3 Tivo, software upgrades, programming guides, music and photo serving, multi room viewing file transfer including to and from the computer, media downloads, internet radio, and a whole raft of options I have never tried.
HD DVD player, for all those things that are mentioned the most important of which is the ability to upgrade firmware.
The TV display and the Panny 10 are not connected. What a shame.

HARRY POTTER and the ORDER OF THE PHOENIX (http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1122/harrypotter_orderofthephoenix.html)


Live community screening (multiple viewers can watch the movie controlled by the "host" simultaneous and chat via their remote controls.)


Nope, nothing there "worth it"- to me at least.


That's the one thing I always thought would be awesome, but they never did anything "awesome" with it.

I kept waiting and waiting for them to do a "live screening" with the actors/directors/writers/JK Rowling but it never happened. I would have been great, and still would be. Of course, allowing the host to be mic'd up to be able to talk in a live commentary would have been mandatory.

Even if you missed the live screening, it could have easily been downloadable content to watch it later, albeit not live. That's where I hoped it was heading, but alas, an opportunity wasted (and a great marketing opportunity at that).

I am surprised Michael Bay didn't want this for Transformers so he could have hosted a live screening and spent the entire time complaining about HD DVD and how BR was so much better (even though the live screening wouldn't have been possible on BR).

Oh well...

Internet enabled features will come to Blu-Ray once the hardware is capable because the studios want it. Their research *gasp* shows that people want more than just better sound and video quality. Their research shows that consumers want better interactivity, too. There already already two BD-Live discs. Anyone that thinks Warner, Disney, Fox, Sony and Lionsgate won't create discs with BD-Live once Sony turns on BD-Live for the PS3 is kidding themselves.

You guys are funny with the whole S-video thing. You realize a lot of these players came with (worse) composite cables. I would be willing to guess that at least 1% of HDM players are connected with the composite RCA cables that came in the box. I know quite a few people that use those (until I correct them) on players connected to displays that have HDMI, component and S-video inputs simply because those were the cables that came with the box.

Internet features may be useful if the Studios feature

1) Downloading of HD trailiers
2) Additional subtitles
3) Additional trivia tracks
4) Behind the scenes footage
5) Scheduled chat with cast or production crew
6) Community screening

Except for 6, BD has no shortage of disc capacity for 1-5. You can load up a bd 50 pretty good.

Even so, BD live will soon become the norm.

However HD connectivity will soon become a thing of the past, even for existing hd dvd owners. The support for it will eventually go down.

I think the real question should be:

What sort of compelling content can be created with internet connectivity, when there is no way to build a community?

I could see an application like the upcoming Sony PS3 3D interactive environment Home being used creatively with multiple users who have a particular Blu-ray disc who could watch a film simultaneously while using their microphones to chat MST3K-style, but the standalone players can't replicate that functionality... and even that sort of application has limited appeal.

Another application could be like the movie Clue, where the audience gets to "vote" on the outcome of the movie; I think this would be a really neat (albeit limited) use of the connectivity feature.

Aside from that, though, most of the ideas I've seen are just new ways to spam advertising, and I think we see quite enough of that on a daily basis without HDM adding to the toll.

Internet features may be useful if the Studios feature

1) Downloading of HD trailiers
2) Additional subtitles
3) Additional trivia tracks
4) Behind the scenes footage
5) Scheduled chat with cast or production crew
6) Community screening

Another possibility....take Transformers....I'll use that as and example because it's the first high-profile movie with a sequel in the works that popped into my head.

Anyways, if you could put Transformers in your player and:

Access behind the scenes of Transformers 2 filming (like webisodes but only available to people who have the first film)
Watch the first 10-15 minutes of Transformers 2 when the time rolls around.
Be entered to win stuff (like tickets to Transformers 2....or even $5 of the HDM version when it's released)


That's just a couple quick thoughts. There is TONS that could be done with it that would be useful. Just a matter of if studios decide to do anything cool with it or just stick with ringtones and spamming us with advertising (LAME!).

Just saying that "Internet connectivity is useless" is like saying the internet is useless. It's all a matter of what is done with it.

I think they should have a voting channel or up to date hot topics on the movie. After you watch a movie like transformers you can go on to vote for your favorite transformers or vote on predictions for a sequel, etc...

I'm sure there is much more to come.

To the OP. Yes, useless.

As another poster said, the only valid reason to have ethernet on your player is for FW updates IMO.

I would like to see a link to IMDB. Most of the time the first thing I do after watching a movie is IMDB the trivia on a film. I know it's not too hard to just go to the computer, but it would be nice to do it from the couch, while the projector is still on and the movie still in the player.

I think checking out the cast links to see what someone is working on now would be something the studios would want. Build up the buzz, catch the new trailer.

Most people who own only BlueRay "can't imagine themselves using internet interactive features" simply because they have yet to use them.Once most of you do get to use them when profile 2.0 players start selling, you will likely change your minds very fast.

Aren't Cell Phones kind of useless? After all, there's a pay phone right on the corner. Why would I ever want to text anyone? I've already got the phone and their number.

You can see where I'm going with this, can't you? You don't NEED Internet features to enjoy the movie, but when they are there you can enjoy it more.

IMHO Transformers was a perfect example of what the studios can do via the internet to add value to the disc you've just paid $30 for.

I patiently read this entire thread. There is nothing here of interest to me at all. Coloring books, group movie watching...come on...they will have to do much, much better than that.

Now, streaming movies to a movies server or for whole house distribution.... :-)

Their research *gasp* shows that people want more than just better sound and video quality. Their research shows that consumers want better interactivity, too

My first thought was got any proof of that? But don't worry about it. If there was research I am sure it went along the lines of "Do you want world peice, to end hunger and cars that don't require any fuel?" Every one says yes. Once they find out what it really is the numbers will look a lot different.

I patiently read this entire thread. There is nothing here of interest to me at all. Coloring books, group movie watching...come on...they will have to do much, much better than that.

Now, streaming movies to a movies server or for whole house distribution.... :-)

If they can synchronize the playback of many HD-DVD or Blu-ray players through the internet, how synchronized are they? To within one second or higher accuracy - one frame?

What if you had 2 or 4 Blu-ray players networked or directly connected together - plugged into a 4K HDTV (or processor first that can combine 4 sources into 1 - or just 4 different HDTVs 2 on top of another 2) and some releases had a special 4 disc version with 1 quarter of the movie on each disc all synchronized together giving you 4 x (1920x1080)=4K with no higher bandwidth needed (except for the sync stuff). You could also have 4 x 7.1 surround sound = around 28 channels of sound (if each disc was encoded with a different bit of the sound/sound channel) ;)

Until there's a Blu ray player that can pour me a drink and has a popcorn popper installed for under $50 you can count me out.

I'll just go back to watching upconverted SD DVD.

(my impression of a HD DVD fanboy)

IMHO Transformers was a perfect example of what the studios can do via the internet to add value to the disc you've just paid $30 for.

There's ways to add value to the disc you just paid $30 for that don't require you to drag your internet connection across the house.

$30? really? they must see you coming.

I have an A3 HD DVD player and have found the online features pretty gimmicky so far. The firmware updates in theory are nice, but to update my player's firmware the first time I had to burn it to a disk and install it that way. I tried downloading but it kept failing. I messed around with The Transformers, Knocked Up, and The Kingdom online features and I thought (like some other posters above me) that this stuff could have been included on the disk. The Kingdom had an online poll. Who gives a shiat about that?

I think the limiting factor on this stuff is the storage space available on the players. Something like the PS3 probably has more room to grow these features due to the hard drive in the machine. Also, the downloading of content on my A3 was painfully slow. It's not like these servers are getting hammered so I have no idea why everything takes so long. I have the 10MB service through my ISP too.

Aren't internet features kind of useless on either format?

Correct

Until there's a Blu ray player that can pour me a drink and has a popcorn popper installed for under $50 you can count me out.

I'll just go back to watching upconverted SD DVD.

(my impression of a HD DVD fanboy)

It wouldn't be impossible :)
You could have a network of everything like that connected together. The popcorn could be timed to be ready during the interval or whatever point in the movie you want. You could make it dim the lights when you start the film. You could do millions of things like that (like the 4 players networked together like I said above). It could make watching a ghost story quite scary too :)

You lack imagination.

While they can put trailers on the disk they cannot update it. What happens in two years when you want to watch the movie. You certainly don't want to watch trailers from two years ago! This will allow you to customize your preshow entertainment, keep your tired catalog title fresh and allow free advertising to the studio in the form of new trailers.

And trailers don't have to be the only updates. Commentaries can be added by your favorite comedian/movie auteur, interactive movie features like communal viewing can allow children to watch movies with their dad in Iraq, menus can be updated and personalized to keep old movies fresh, movie tie ins can be bought (who wouldn't want to see a catalog of Anchorman apparel and cologne tie-ins), soundtrack downloads could be offered at a discount, movie trivia for similar movie genres would get you interested in other studio titles, etc.

Online connectivity will also completely kill one of the major problem areas HDM has with the general populace: the need for firmware upgrades. Auto-upgrades will make this whole messy issue go away (and it IS an issue).

Because you haven't utilized the features doesn't mean that they are going to be worthless. HDM is not going to catch on because of the increased quality. People don't care about that (outside our small world). Show them how to keep their librairies updated and personalized. Show them all the interactive ways they can involve themselves in the movie process and you may have the ability to make some headway.

Hey guys, if you're really so worried, just unplug the ethernet cable. And if it's still keeping you up at night, just wrap it in tinfoil.

To OP:

I guess they're as useless as movies. They're just there for entertainment.

Some people like shoes with no laces!!

It's a personal preference!! If you don't like it, don't use it!

Pretty simple stuff here. I swear if everyone was going to get hung, there would be a thread arguing how old the rope was!!

TOOO MUCH! Have Fun!!

Internet Features: because being in frickin HD isn't enough. :D

Seriously though, downloadable trailers, previews, trivia, etc are a valuable feature... if you don't have a computer.

my short response:
this thread is deja vu and i agree with coolhand.

the extended cut of my response:
there are a number of possibilities for internet features that would be interesting to me. coolhand's customized pre-feature entertainment is one that i would love. you could optionally choose to have current theatrical trailers streamed and shown prior to the feature on the disc, or better yet, be able to choose from countless trailers/"no talking" messages/old newsreels/etc to create a custom pre-show experience akin to the "Warner Night at the Movies" feature on some of their classic titles (like on Casablanca). you could have a bunch of these saved to your own personal online profile and assigned to certain discs that you own.

even more interesting to me is the possibility of user-created content made available online. for example, let's say some enterprising musician created their own score for the silent Nosferatu and made it available. it could be streamed or downloaded and synced to the movie as you watch it. likewise with commentaries - you could have movie critics doing their own commentaries made available and fully synced to the movie as you watch it. all these user-created features could be rated and/or commented on. these possibilities are just the tip of the iceberg. there is all kinds of exciting potential for people that love movies and want to delve into them further.

Apparently the underlying points for the adoption of HDM on Optical (and other distributions), but primarily Optical, is being sorely missed. HDM on optical was and is trying to be marketed as a complete replacement for SD-DVD. The (IMO) largest growing market segment that uses SD-DVD is:

KIDS

While they can watch a Wiggles DVD 40,000 times in a year and never tire of it, they would be the first users of the interactive content. Most of that would be because of the captive nature on the content that parents wouldn't have to worry as much as if the kids were to access the same type via a internet computer browser. The complicated content filters, parental controls, and the endless updates make today's internet worse than playing in traffic.

The responses i've seen so far is true for one segment, early adopters (which, at least by age) is adults.

Everything listed can be done now with a HTPC. Synced soundtracks? Oh yeah. Trailers? Tons. Of course you have to deal with little programs and a lot of time to demux/remux but if you're that into presentation it's worth it.

Everything listed can be done now with a HTPC. Synced soundtracks? Oh yeah. Trailers? Tons. Of course you have to deal with little programs and a lot of time to demux/remux but if you're that into presentation it's worth it.
yeah, and i think that's the point. integrating such capability into the players makes those things much, much easier to do and vastly expands the user base for those kinds of features.

I agree but I think in the end all we'll be getting is stuff you can find on the official website (ie crap).

Is there even enough storage space for trailers, commentaries, etc are will this be not a problem with 2.0 players?

I agree but I think in the end all we'll be getting is stuff you can find on the official website (ie crap).

Is there even enough storage space for trailers, commentaries, etc are will this be not a problem with 2.0 players?

The general concensus I come with, that the average person on this forum wants, demands, very high quality video, for the MOVIE. So with that premise, it makes sense to have the extras, if you want them access by the device that just played your movie on and leave the space on the media for a less lossy compression with higher resolution. Unless you're that type that wake's up in a sweat at 2AM and just have to see the blooper segments.

:eek:In this youtube/myspace world, you may someday be able to download "my scenes" with MY COMMENTARY.

There are a lot of things that the computer will do, but whatever you can do seamlessly and conveniently people will try. I can hook up my laptop to the rgb input on my tv, but that's a pain and reguires long cables. The Ps3 browser add some functionality but the plug-ins are a head ache not to mention external storage.

If it was just remote and click kind of interface I would use it without necessarily needing to drag a keyboard out of a drawer or find the right pointing device. It wouldn't have to do everything that the computer does.

youtube, youjoke, well maybe not.

I just noticed last night, that there is a lot of goofs that actually spend their precious basement living time, mult-tasking with W.O.W., chopping of movies into 10 min segments and post it on youtuby. Smokey and the Bandit, White Lightning, anything that is apparently no longer viewed as copyright infringement even if it is, and post it.

All of you, Internet feature proponents, ignored these: Complexity and cost to player and disc.
More fancy features would good even if you will not use them, unless it adds complexity and cost to the player. It is classic case of so-called "featurism". For CE device, simplicity and convenience are more important than bells and whistles.

But Internet feature is very complex feature which requires substantial system resource (like fast CPU, larger memory, storage, Ethernet), development cost & time, BOM cost. The feature adds near-PC complexity to player in hardware and software implementation, that means more bugs, more test, longer boot & loading time, sluggish response and more lock-up and BSOD while playing contents. Most of all, more consumer confusion and embarrassment, complaint. Do you like it?
HDM movie disc with Internet feature will cost considerable sum of development money and time than simple movie commentary, too.

Which one will you buy? : $600 BD-Live (profile 2.0) Blu-ray player or simpler and less expensive $400 BD-BonusView (profile 1.1) Blu-ray player. Does the Internet feature worth $200 of additional cost?
Will you buy Transformer BL movie disc at $30 with various Internet features or $25 simple Transformer movie with only commentary and extra footages?

I think that the Internet feature does not worth it.
.

I have always thought it was a very dangerous feature. Trailers are just advertisements. It sounds nice that maybe they would altruistically just download new trailers in place of the old trailers, but now the ad space itself is worth more than it used to be. They can only put so many advertisements on a disk now before enough customers are not buying disks because the ads tick them off. This thing might just change that equilibrium and not in the owner's favor.

Anyways, if you could put Transformers in your player and:

Access behind the scenes of Transformers 2 filming (like webisodes but only available to people who have the first film)
Watch the first 10-15 minutes of Transformers 2 when the time rolls around.
Be entered to win stuff (like tickets to Transformers 2....or even $5 of the HDM version when it's released)


That's just a couple quick thoughts. There is TONS that could be done with it that would be useful. Just a matter of if studios decide to do anything cool with it or just stick with ringtones and spamming us with advertising (LAME!).



Those things could be easily be found online anyways as soon as it gets released.

I've read through the entire thread and I am also one of the people that don't care about any of the features that in internet features bring. If I want to watch new trailers, I'll take a look online on a regular computer. No interest in buying anything else online (ringtones, etc). Community screenings? Not interested again...I'd rather have friends/family over to watch together physically rather than watching it at the same time with others online (whether it be friends, random people, celebrities, so on). The rest of the features seem too 'gimmicky' (such as those found in Transformers, when my friend showed me the 'cool' features on his HD-DVD player). So far not interested in the other "possibilities" so far users are suggesting 'may' come in the future.

Just give me the movie with superior HD picture/audio. The feature I seem to use on movies are bloopers/gag reels, which has already been on DVDs anyways and requires no internet connection.

Internet Features: because being in frickin HD isn't enough. :D

Seriously though, downloadable trailers, previews, trivia, etc are a valuable feature... if you don't have a computer.

And why would you even have an internet connection to hook up to your HD player if you don't have a computer?

The big problem with online features is "how long will they actually be there?". Instead of giving you permanent features that reside on your disk, they will be placing more of these features on a server somewhere that will only function as long as the studios feel it's worth the money to maintain.

The big problem with online features is "how long will they actually be there?". Instead of giving you permanent features that reside on your disk, they will be placing more of these features on a server somewhere that will only function as long as the studios feel it's worth the money to maintain.

And one doesn't need a Blue-ray player to access stuff like that, only a computer. The whole idea seems pretty pointless to me.

Your logic is insane. What's stopping them from planning and completing all the content before it's mastered?

It's like you say, "Hey here's Window's 98 but we haven't completed Internet Explorer yet. So, why don't you check back in 3 weeks and download it then."

And the easy answer: Complete all content before mastering (It was never an issue for DVD released material in the past 10+ years). And if there is a ton on content they want to release later, make and release a special edition for those who want it.

It's called progress. Why go and pay for a special edition of a dvd you already own if you could easily download it with BD Live? There's no disadvantage whatsoever to having web-enabled features for future content. Crawl out of the 90's.

I think a lot of you are being short sighted. This is a way to revolutionize the way we watch movies. This is really one of the very few differentiators from DVD. Its not that expensive (adds less than $15 in player cost NOW) and could really make a difference if done properly. There are a lot of things you can do on a computer, but it is more appropriate to do them within the scope of your theater instead. CE is going to incorporate more and more online capabilities over the coming years.

If all you want Blu-ray to be is a high bit rate movie it will be an abject failure. There is no value in that. But changing the way consumers watch movies and making sure that their investment pays more dividends is something that can create value in the eyes of consumers. This area holds a tremendous amount of potential if you could only see the possibilities.

Yeah, I see no point outside of firmware updates for all this web crap. If I wanted flash games or trailers I would look them up on my PC. Movie players should just play movies well. I don't want to have to wait 5 minutes to watch a movie because the player is downloading new rigntones from the studio.

Why would you look them up on your computer when you can watch them in your theater? These aren't new ideas, they are just implemented differently.

(where in Madison are you from?)

Why would you look them up on your computer when you can watch them in your theater? These aren't new ideas, they are just implemented differently.

(where in Madison are you from?)

Because hopefully the stuff I want to 'watch', is already on the disc. Otherwise, I just wasted my money.

I think a lot of you are being short sighted. This is a way to revolutionize the way we watch movies. This is really one of the very few differentiators from DVD. Its not that expensive (adds less than $15 in player cost NOW) and could really make a difference if done properly. There are a lot of things you can do on a computer, but it is more appropriate to do them within the scope of your theater instead. CE is going to incorporate more and more online capabilities over the coming years.

If all you want Blu-ray to be is a high bit rate movie it will be an abject failure. There is no value in that. But changing the way consumers watch movies and making sure that their investment pays more dividends is something that can create value in the eyes of consumers. This area holds a tremendous amount of potential if you could only see the possibilities.

The one thing these internet features are not about is "watching movies."

Theres a lot of things you can use it for that would be cool if they could get it to work properly.

I can see it being huge in TV dvds... for example you buy lost or 24 and you get promos for the next episode to air, or a preview of the upcoming seasons. Maybe if there is sufficient space in the memory, the entire premiere episode of the next season to get you hooked.

Or conversely a list of comparable shows that are airing currently you can preview/watch episodes for. So if you put in say... Battlestar Galactica season two or something they would allow you to watch, the current or premeire episode of the new Dr Who or something. Since shows are canceled willy nilly it might be better than throwing on a static promo for Vanished, Drive, the Nine or Traveler... Which may not even be on the air when the dvd is in stores...

A cool thing would be something like weekly live video blogs from the cast and crew on set of the sequel to Transformers or whatever movie you bought. Sure it can be found online et al, but sometimes its part of the movie experience, you finish watching the movie and the additional features are there at just a few clicks of a button, you don't have to go to your computer or do any switching or anything, the webisodes are a seamless part of the disc, watch a video blog, then watch the bloopers, and a trailer all seamlessly.

Then the trailers etc...

And of course the store, You just watched... DC Cab, click here to purchase a Gold Chain Necklace just like Mr. T wears!

I agree with the OP that most relevant content could just be on the disk.

The only thing that I would find useful would be links to IMDB pages for cast and crew and Rotten Tomatoes reviews. I doubt that many studios would consider doing that though.

Sometimes, when watching trailers I'd like to be able to just click a button and have it added it to my Netflix queue.

I think that this internet stuff isn't a done deal quite yet. Studios will probably make some effort to utilize the online abilities, but if down the road if enough customers aren't hooking their set top players up to the internet it may just fizzle out. Current DVD extras are conveniently there for people to use. I'm of the opinion that if Wifi isn't standard on these things down the line, people just won't have them online. If everyone here that is an enthusiest doesn't have their player connected online, what are the odds that the average joe ever will?

There's only one marginal use I can see from this --- ability to download new subtitles - timestamped correctly to play with the movie.

I think internet chat is silly unless you're playing it on your laptop, and even then, I'm not quite sure why people want it.

I think the online commerce/advertising/shopping side makes no sense to me. I hate commercials before the movie, why would I invite commercials home onto my movies at home? And home shopping DURING the movie? Wars have been fought for lesser transgressions.

My pet peeve in this interactivity discussion is that so much time is spent talking up the hype about it, and so little in actually producing actual interactivity that this is approaching vaporware status. If you want to revolutionize how to watch movies, come up with a compelling example. Build some flagship interactive disk with internet connectivity so that people can agree it is compelling enough for them to think about it. Right now, the reason why the interactive aspects don't sell is precisely because other than big words and hype, noone has built something that they can proud of to show the world HOW to watch movies in NEW ways, everything we see just makes it more difficult to live up to a fraction of the hype, so the people who are pushing this interactivity side have their work cut out.

If they don't want this whole space to die the same way WebTV did, they have to come up with something compelling instead of more advertising or more viral-marketing, people's credulity have been stretched far enough here and after Tokyo Drift, the next big movie to be touted on BD-J with interactivity better have something compelling or noone will care.

There's only one marginal use I can see from this --- ability to download new subtitles - timestamped correctly to play with the movie.

I think internet chat is silly unless you're playing it on your laptop, and even then, I'm not quite sure why people want it.

I think the online commerce/advertising/shopping side makes no sense to me. I hate commercials before the movie, why would I invite commercials home onto my movies at home? And home shopping DURING the movie? Wars have been fought for lesser transgressions.

My pet peeve in this interactivity discussion is that so much time is spent talking up the hype about it, and so little in actually producing actual interactivity that this is approaching vaporware status. If you want to revolutionize how to watch movies, come up with a compelling example. Build some flagship interactive disk with internet connectivity so that people can agree it is compelling enough for them to think about it. Right now, the reason why the interactive aspects don't sell is precisely because other than big words and hype, noone has built something that they can proud of to show the world HOW to watch movies in NEW ways, everything we see just makes it more difficult to live up to a fraction of the hype, so the people who are pushing this interactivity side have their work cut out.

If they don't want this whole space to die the same way WebTV did, they have to come up with something compelling instead of more advertising or more viral-marketing, people's credulity have been stretched far enough here and after Tokyo Drift, the next big movie to be touted on BD-J with interactivity better have something compelling or noone will care.

Ditto on the subtitles.

I am curious to see what they can do with BD-j that you cannot do by just looking up stuff on your computer. But as far as trailers, behind the scenes on the web, that stuff should be on the disc. WIth HD DVD you had a lack of storage so extending things via the net was very attractive. But with BD we have an xtra 20gb. How fast can that player read say...10mbs of data rather than download it from the internet? My guess is that the player can access the data off disc faster anyday.

So far, the ps3 makes the best case for a 2.0 player, becasue of the built in wi fi.

Because right now, web enabled content is not worth routing a cable to your living room.

Because right now, web enabled content is not worth routing a cable to your living room.
just a note: a wireless bridge is a much more convenient solution than routing cable. a bit more expensive, but far cleaner. that said, your point stands: it's not necessarily worth the effort to set up a connection in your living room.

It's gonna happen.

I mean, there's no reason why the downloadable trailers, clips, features can't be put on the discs themselves. And the trivia or questions, would get a wider audience on some universally accessed website. They all just seem like useless gimmicks to me.

Downloadable subtitles or menu skins (like in Transformers) are really the only cool things I can think of. And again, there's no reason they couldn't have been on the disc from the get go. So, what are some real internet features you'd like to see? Are there any? As it stands, I think its just energy and money better spend elsewhere on the disc and features.

Edit: In the future, it could also lead to the attitude of "Well, now we don't even have to have all our features ready at launch, we can just create them later and make people download them." I'm not saying they will, but it could result in some laziness in the area of extra material.

Internet feature only matter to the tech savvy early adopters. Chances of finding a ethernet port (wire or wireless) near their TV in a non tech savvy J6P's home is next to nail.

DVD needed something other than improved pq to knock off VHS--at it's inception most people had 27' analog sets on which most vhs didn't really look that bad. So one of the selling points of dvd was interactivity and more flexible playback, onscreen subtitles, secondary audio streams with commentaries, etc.

The backers of both formats of HDM saw a need for more than just improved pq and aq over SD dvd in order to sell their product. Hell, to this day we have supposed enthusiasts claiming not to see enough improvement in pq and aq to justify getting into HDM. The answer was to go beyond the capabilities of SD DVD as far as features and interactivity via internet connectivity.

Sure, we haven't seen anything really compelling as far as internet enabled content, though some of the stuff on Transformers is really cool, but this was the case with dvd special features too. In the early days of dvd simple static cast bios and maybe a commetary track were about the extent of special features and now we have much more sophisticated stuff.

We're still in very early days as far as HDM is concerned, and I think it's premature to condemn internet interactive features based on what we've seen so far. There's a lot of potential for these to improve into something much more worthwile. As far as limited memory on players the PS3 already has this solved and there's no reason why the upcoming BD20 standalones couldn't have a USB port that would add extra memory via flashdrive--perhaps this is what was intended for the USB ports on all HD DVD players.

The one thing these internet features are not about is "watching movies."

I couldn't disagree more. The way you watch your movies and interact through the movie viewing process can be significantly enhanced using these enpanded features. I sense more resistance to this idea than I expected. This is not an expensive venture for production OR for consumers. It is value added for both parties. I don't understand why no one wants extra value out of their movies. So many people seem so intent on getting nothing but higher bit rates and more pixels out of their HDM. If that is all they can provide they have already lost.

If you don't like the features, that's fine. Some do. And it does make a good selling point to people in order to differentiate blu-ray from dvd.

I occasionally used the web features on hd dvd. It didn't seem to add to the cost of players or discs. Also, as to complexity, other than making sure your firmware was up-to-date, that didn't seem to be an issue either.

The only way I could think of bd-live being a problem, is if they implement a copy protection scheme where you needed an ethernet connection to verify your copy of the movie, or having them limit how many times you can watch the movie. Sort of live Divx was trying to do when it was competing with dvd, only they required a dial-up connection.

What I don't understand is the people who just want the movie in the best format possible being against this... Would downloads be right in that wheelhouse? a mess of bonus features aren't part of the 25/50GB that normally would?

you don't HAVE to download anything if its not your cup of tea...

What I don't understand is the people who just want the movie in the best format possible being against this... Would downloads be right in that wheelhouse? a mess of bonus features aren't part of the 25/50GB that normally would?

you don't HAVE to download anything if its not your cup of tea...

Because this is just another very low value gimmick that distracts the studios from what ought to be their main focus: giving outstanding PQ and AQ on the movie itself, and makes it less likely that they will deliver on that main priority.

Aren't internet features kind of useless on either format?
Nope. Well useless on some BD players as it isn't possible.

What I don't understand is the people who just want the movie in the best format possible being against this... Would downloads be right in that wheelhouse? a mess of bonus features aren't part of the 25/50GB that normally would?

I'd be fine with them dumping all the special features off the main disc. It won't happen though. The studios already gripe about the cost of permanently maintaining the digital masters of their movies. How long will they want to pay to support the interent features of their entire catalog of movies? I can see these internet features being used in the next few years and then scaled back someday when the bean counters start taking a look at their long term costs. At what point do the studios shut down the internet features of a particular movie? After x amount of years, or when less then x amount of people are accessing the features per month/quarter? The cost of authoring and supporting any DVD was generally finished after it shipped to retailers. Not so with any Blu-Ray that has internet features.

Aren't internet features kind of useless on either format?

Yup, at least to me. There is no internet connection available in my setup, so unless it comes on the disc, with no outside interactivity involved, it serves no purpose to me...

Because this is just another very low value gimmick that distracts the studios from what ought to be their main focus: giving outstanding PQ and AQ on the movie itself, and makes it less likely that they will deliver on that main priority.

And here in lies the misconception. The studios' main priority is to be as profitable as possible to its shareholders. The truth is for new releases the AQ and PQ are not nearly the priority you seem to think they should be. A lousy transfer means maybe a loss of a handful of sales. What are you going to do buy it on DVD? No, frankly you don't have a lot of options. You can't base an entire format on slightly better picture. Especially when the public doesn't even want it. What they need to do to sell the public on HDM is to give them a value added benefit. Which is exactly what this is. If you don't want to utilize it don't. But it gives the studio more flexibility and should actually in turn allow for more disk space for the movie.

Frankly, people are a little set in their viewing patterns around here. There hasn't been any worthwhile connectivity benefits to date but that doesn't mean that this doesn't open up the door for some great opportunities in the future. I am shocked that so many people are opposed to it. My only explanation is that people are still sticking to format war talking points. With the war growing distant in the rearview it is time to look forward. It really is one of the last hopes of HDM.

Because this is just another very low value gimmick that distracts the studios from what ought to be their main focus: giving outstanding PQ and AQ on the movie itself, and makes it less likely that they will deliver on that main priority.
do you honestly believe that? if so, on what basis? the compressionist overseeing the transfer is definitely not the same guy developing the internet-connected features. the two things are mutually exclusive, which is proven by the countless DVDs that have a stellar transfer and beefy set of extra features on another disc, or heck, even some HDM releases that we already have, such as Blade Runner. the studios can easily give us outstanding PQ and AQ as well as interesting and insightful special features, some of which may be internet features.

Why would you look them up on your computer when you can watch them in your theater? T

Since when does J6P have a theatre?

Considering the majority of blu-ray owners are using a PS3, I'd imagine that a lot of those users have internet access for their PS3.

As for paying for upkeep, I don't think it will take long before they can sell ads on the online content.

Considering the majority of blu-ray owners are using a PS3, I'd imagine that a lot of those users have internet access for their PS3.

As for paying for upkeep, I don't think it will take long before they can sell ads on the online content.
Will the end user be OK with this, though?

It's true that we put up with ads on a constant basis on the Internet as it is, but if I put a disc in a machine in my own house, the last thing I am expecting, let alone want, is a commercial (and yes, those forced trailers on some movie discs irritate me greatly, even though you can skip them).

I see a lot of optimism in this thread about how this connectivity will be used "in the future", but frankly, none of the potential uses raised have offered anything much in the form of added value.

Now, what might be interesting is a one-time-disc-owners-only live webcast event. Buy the disc on release week, and one week later, pop your disc in and "tune in" to a webcast with the cast and crew of the film.

Even so, I still don't think it has anything close to the potential of a virtual marketspace like Sony is creating inside the upcoming PlayStation Home.

Since when does J6P have a theatre?

As a trip to Wal*Mart will show, home theater can mean MANY things. Besides, anyone with a Blu-Ray player has something along those lines that will show off new trailers far better than a cpu will.

Will the end user be OK with this, though?

It's true that we put up with ads on a constant basis on the Internet as it is, but if I put a disc in a machine in my own house, the last thing I am expecting, let alone want, is a commercial (and yes, those forced trailers on some movie discs irritate me greatly, even though you can skip them).

I see a lot of optimism in this thread about how this connectivity will be used "in the future", but frankly, none of the potential uses raised have offered anything much in the form of added value.

Now, what might be interesting is a one-time-disc-owners-only live webcast event. Buy the disc on release week, and one week later, pop your disc in and "tune in" to a webcast with the cast and crew of the film.

Even so, I still don't think it has anything close to the potential of a virtual marketspace like Sony is creating inside the upcoming PlayStation Home.

I think the only way you would see the ads, is if you used the web connect features.

.... What they need to do to sell the public on HDM is to give them a value added benefit. Which is exactly what this is. If you don't want to utilize it don't. But it gives the studio more flexibility and should actually in turn allow for more disk space for the movie.
I agree that the Internet feature gives more flexibility and additional profits to movie studio and CE maker. Yes, it is very good new advertising channel for studio and "differentiating" (= in price, not real value) bells and whistles for CE maker.

But, what are the benefits to buyer/owner of the HDM player? What flexibility and added value the feature gives to customer? The benefits listed above are hardly what the consumer wants or get convinced on.
Will the studio give free hour-long TV show via Internet? Then, what's difference with IPTV or VOD set-top box? Does such free show have something to do with HDM disc?

How to sell the feature to consumer? Do you expect consumer will pay extra money to get benefits that they can not see or understand? Will you force-feed the feature to consumer? It is not possible for Blu-ray player, unless it is mandatory feature as it is for HD-DVD player.

This forum members are quite early adopters and bells-and-whistles lovers. If you can not persuade them to understand and to like this feature, benefits and values, and sell them to these members, you can not do it to J6P, too.

Internet feature gives flexibility and benefits to movie studio and CE maker, but fails to give convincing value and benefits to consumer and owner. It is just expensive Trojan-horse that consumer should pay for the benefits of studio and CE maker.

I think the only way you would see the ads, is if you used the web connect features.
...which would be a good reason for people to just yank the internet connection on their player.

The problem thus far is that there has been absolutely nothing compelling about any of the web-enabled offerings to date, and there doesn't seem to be much prospect in the future (for those that disagree, I'll point to the much-lauded dotcom bubble around 2000, where people ended up betting on web connectivity taking the world by storm - and seeing it fail miserably in most implementations).

My guess is that less than .5% of the general population actually bothers with special features in the first place. Not taking any jabs but the only people who care about special features are HD DVD owners.

My only explanation is that people are still sticking to format war talking points. With the war growing distant in the rearview it is time to look forward. It really is one of the last hopes of HDM.

Yeah, this sounds like another format war thread a lot of the time. The "no one wants extras" talking point was fun then, but the war's over, kids.

When I first heard about inet connectivity on next gen video players, I thought more about output then input.

One feature I'd like to see implemented is the ability for the player output a list of movies that the player has seen inserted into it. There would be many ways to implement this (smtp, http host or http client, proprietary to a manafacture). Some way to get a list and be able to indicate rented or bought could be very useful. This is the type of feature I'm hoping to see manafactures use to seperate their player from another. Would make purchasing movies years from now much easier knowing for sure if already have that movie or not.

Doubt this type of feature would happen with current players, but maybe some manafacture will try and seperate their product from others.

When I first heard about inet connectivity on next gen video players, I thought more about output then input.

One feature I'd like to see implemented is the ability for the player output a list of movies that the player has seen inserted into it.... Would make purchasing movies years from now much easier knowing for sure if already have that movie or not.

..

Thats only an issue for people who own thousands of movies. Most of us can just check the shelf.

I'd just like to say one thing:

Several months back, I made a post very similar to what the OP posted, only the responses were vastly different. It seemed that HD-DVD owners felt I was taking a swipe at their format, and they had a laundry list of reasons why interactivity was the difference that would put HD-DVD over the top.

Now all I see are negative comments about interactivity in HDM. Why do you suppose that is? Have people had more time to discover that they don't like interactivity, or is it something else?

By the way, I believe my original post was actually pulled from this forum, due to complaints that it was biased against HD-DVD because I had the nerve to say that I felt interactivity on discs was not important/a gimmick.

Now that Blu-ray has won, I STILL feel this way. Interactivity is a total gimmick. I agree that the ability to add subtitles is great, BUT subs take up a minute amount of space, so why not have them all on there in the first place?

Subs are part of the way that movie studios control views (ala region coding). I'm sure they're going to sell these subs to us for a price. Giving us the subs sort of takes away from the whole point of region coding. Am beginning to wonder if the studios will actually let this happen.

well all this talk is moot by the end of the year.
bd players will have every thing hd dvd player had and more.
so why bother talking about this stuff,hd dvd is done

By the way, I believe my original post was actually pulled from this forum, due to complaints that it was biased against HD-DVD because I had the nerve to say that I felt interactivity on discs was not important/a gimmick.

Now that Blu-ray has won, I STILL feel this way. Interactivity is a total gimmick. I agree that the ability to add subtitles is great, BUT subs take up a minute amount of space, so why not have them all on there in the first place?

Don't feel bad, I got flamed by someone today for saying I didn't care for all the internet-based downloadable content. I even went 1 further and said I didn't care for the PIP stuff either. I'n not gonna sit there and watch a given movie twice just to see it once without and then with the PIP extras. If I watch the extras (a somewhat big "IF"), I'll watch them in the extras area of the disc after I've finished watching the movie.

Don't feel bad, I got flamed by someone today for saying I didn't care for all the internet-based downloadable content. I even went 1 further and said I didn't care for the PIP stuff either. I'n not gonna sit there and watch a given movie twice just to see it once without and then with the PIP extras. If I watch the extras (a somewhat big "IF"), I'll watch them in the extras area of the disc after I've finished watching the movie.

What ever happened to just enjoying the movie.

I even went 1 further and said I didn't care for the PIP stuff either. I'n not gonna sit there and watch a given movie twice just to see it once without and then with the PIP extras. If I watch the extras (a somewhat big "IF"), I'll watch them in the extras area of the disc after I've finished watching the movie.

Yes, I agree to your opinion. PiP is more useful than Internet feature. But, I don't think that PiP capability is so important and useful that it should be mandatory feature of Blu-ray/HD-DVD.

I, too, watched the PiP commentary sometimes. But I do so very rarely only for the very impressive movie. It is useful sometimes, but not very useful to be must-have feature.

The PiP/commentary feature requires additional video/audio decoder, which costs quite some money. Dual channel video decoder chip costs much more than single-channel video decoder chip. (ex: Sigma Design SMP-8630 vs. EM-8620L)

To drive down lower bound price of Blu-ray player available on market, BDA should lift mandatory requirement of secondary audio/video decoder for PiP commentary from Blu-ray spec. It will prompt new availability of less expensive profile 1.0 player.

Yeah, you can not watch PiP/commentary with such player. But who cares? I don't care, at least. For 98% of movie I watched, I didn't pay any attention to those dull commentary anyway. I guess that 98% of consumer out there have same attitude as I do.
Give them choice to be able to buy inexpensive Blu-ray 1.0 player.
.

If all the interactivity, all the extra features capabilities are worthless as many of you are suggesting, that pits Blu-Ray and its high price, firmware requiring, still need a DVD copy for the car, and ~1M SAs against the commoditized low cost efficiency of DVD with over 120M players. The ONLY benefit is then better AQ and PQ and as many threads out there complain, it isn't that much of a difference. I think if we really are talking about JUST the movies, Blu-Ray will not catch on and DVD will reign supreme.

My guess is that less than .5% of the general population actually bothers with special features in the first place. Not taking any jabs but the only people who care about special features are HD DVD owners.
Um, what about the people who buy DVDs? Nearly all DVDs have extra features these days which is odd if they only appeal to less than a percent of the market. I've bought dozens of movies I've seen a hundred times entirely for the extra features.

Ok, so I was thinking about this while showering this morning. Most of the suggestions seem to be special features that are not on the disk. Yes, possible. Why not include them on the disk when shipped? Maybe they appeal only to a small audience, like commentary from sound engineers. Maybe they weren't thought up yet, say the movie shipped and the fan base really wanted to know, or see something else, that could be added later.

But really, those things all seem like 'access special features on the internet instead of the disk' and not all that cool.

These are computers with an internet connection and the internet can give you a lot of stuff! What I post below, I have no idea if they're technically possibly given the current state of players, but I don't feel like limiting myself to "what can a Blu-ray player currently do with an internet connection". Rather, I want to ask "what can be done with an internet connection to enhance my movie watching experience" with some future looking suggestions. Here are a few that I remember thinking up:

1. imdb: Someone mention this in this thread. Ever sit there watching a movie and wonder where you've seen some actor before, or who is doing the voice for a particular animated character? I would love to have imdb in a tabbable window or PIP. If tabbed, you could have a little progress bar that lets you know when the page loads. Auto-pause the movie when looking at imdb.

2. netflix or similar: Lets say I'm watching U-571 and feel like watching other sub related movies. How about the a Netflix pluggin that recognizes the movie I'm playing and gives me a list of movies based on theme, or actors, or director, and lets me check ones to auto-queue. Same thing can be done with Amazon or BB which adds to my wish list.

3. Auto-do not disturb: My online calendar can be auto updated with a 'busy' block that estimates when the movie will end. My VoIP or whole house networked phone can be set in a do not disturb mode that redirects calls to the answering machine until I either turn off the player, or the main feature ends, or some combo based on user preferences

4. Downloadable subtitles: I'm not talking about a new language, what if Larry the Cable Guy was bored and wrote up commentary for Snakes On A Plane... Or how about a 'Last Comic Standing' challenge where the competitors have to write subtitles for a movie and the fan base can vote or rate a subtitle track. Also languages that any self respecting studio would never put on a movie like 'h4x0r' could find their way to you.

5. (I'm making assumptions about what 'seemless branching' is. I didn't do research but based on the name I'm suggesting this) Guest directors: Load up a disk with deleted scenes, alternate endings and alternate scenes. Invite Quentin Tarantino to re-cut King Kong, maybe with the option of changing some background music... Or there was that that guy that edited Phantom Menace to remove many of the Jar Jar scenes.

You might ask why on earth would anyone want to allow #4 or #5, especially the directors on 5 and the writers/actors on 4? How about this, a movie completely bombs at the box office. By doing some promo like the 'Last Comic Standing' or some 'Entire movie in 5 mins' contest, it could boost DVD sales. Or they might make a romantic comedy sellable to a suspense fan. Or a horror film sellable to a comedy fan.

#1, #2, #3 would likely work by downloading some pluggin from the service providers, imdb would write the software to perform the searches, not the disc authours.

If the internet port is only ever used for downloading firmware and standard bonus features, then I agree, it's a waste. I hope it finds more creative uses then that. Give the internet an SDK to make these things and we'll have loads of goodness.

Also, there's no reason why a wifi adapter can't be placed in the player, or a wireless access point added behind the dvd player. There are alternatives to stringing a network cable form the router to the player.

Most people who own only BlueRay "can't imagine themselves using internet interactive features" simply because they have yet to use them.Once most of you do get to use them when profile 2.0 players start selling, you will likely change your minds very fast.Most of us who also own/owned HD-DVD also got to expirience just how useful and relevant interactive features can be and most of us used them whenever they were included in whatever HD-DVD we may have been watching at the time, especially when they included interactive features like the ones found in the Transformers,Shrek 3,Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, and Freedom series of anime HD-DVDs.Upgrading the player bios through ethernet connection was/is also very convenient and easy to do, which adds even more value to having an internet connection on the players imo.

Since most folks who own current standalone BlueRay players(most PS3 owners have the unit hooked up to the internet)own players that aren't capable of connecting to the internet or being upgraded through internet connection and likely won't be going out and spending another 400+ on profile 2.0 players when they arrive in a few months, then of course most of you won't "have any use" or understand the usefulness of having the ethernet/internet connection in BlueRay players and won't understand how useful they can be listening to others who do have them or have used them.You all aren't likely to change your minds about it unless you expirience it for yourselves, so until you all do it's really hard to believe most of you would "never" have any use for the new features 2.0 will bring.

and about 6 mons from now you will need a 2.0 bd player because as of now hd dvd is shut down

The point is, they want to open another revenue stream through advertising.

It's also an attempt to hide what they're really using the internet connectivity for (tracking, getting stats on your viewing habits, etc.) to sell as another revenue stream, or to keep tabs on piracy.


DING

and

DING

I should add that if everyone has an internet connection it makes it much easier for them to deal with piracy (or skirting region coding) when they want to.

DING

and

DING

I should add that if everyone has an internet connection it makes it much easier for them to deal with piracy (or skirting region coding) when they want to.

Thats crazy. Anyone that uses a pirated BD will be smart enough to not connect. If anything it will be a great way to add value to original releases over pirated copies.

I think a lot of Blu folks talked themselves out of online features during the war. I think it is in everyone's interest to keep HDM alive by adding features and benefits not available on SD DVD.

I mean, there's no reason why the downloadable trailers, clips, features can't be put on the discs themselves. And the trivia or questions, would get a wider audience on some universally accessed website. They all just seem like useless gimmicks to me.

+1

And I'll take it one step further and say that most featurettes are cheap gimmicks which are usually nothing more than an extended trailer. Anything to make the disc look feature loaded though, right? ;)

I think a lot of Blu folks talked themselves out of online features during the war. I think it is in everyone's interest to keep HDM alive by adding features and benefits not available on SD DVD.

Thats ridiculous. As we've all said, online features might be cool, but the ones that are currently being done on both formats are nothing that couldn't just be put on the disk.

I think the IMDB/netflix plugins would be a cool idea. That might move me.

Who would even have access to the internet features, how many people have easy ethernet access in their ht? I have my router in the computer room.
If the PS3 didnt have wifi, profile 2.0 features would be lost on me.

Pretty much all the internet features that have been mentioned in this thread Id rather have access to on my computer. And most are just lame(updated trivia?)

Thats ridiculous. As we've all said, online features might be cool, but the ones that are currently being done on both formats are nothing that couldn't just be put on the disk.

I think the IMDB/netflix plugins would be a cool idea. That might move me.

I know, maybe nothing you guys would call great but some movies feature online galleries which get updated regularly. How could you do this with the gallery on disc?

Non-net connected anything is an instant dinosaur. Equivalent to 3 reel silent film. BD anyone?

Yeah, that's true. How could've laserdisc/vhs/dvd survived without an internet connection? Oh wait...

Thats ridiculous. As we've all said, online features might be cool, but the ones that are currently being done on both formats are nothing that couldn't just be put on the disk.

I think the IMDB/netflix plugins would be a cool idea. That might move me.

It is ridiculous to try to differentiate yourself from the competition? Your usage of the term is absurd. Blu-ray will never achieve critical mass if the only thing that is offered is a better picture and better audio. PERIOD.

The whole point of the features would be something that couldn't go on the disk. Behind the scenes featurettes for upcoming studio releases, new trailers (would you rather have a trailer for Pushing Tin or The Dark Knight play before your 5 year old movie?), updated trivia (have you ever played 5 year old trivia? Its awful), etc.

Blu-ray will never achieve critical mass if the only thing that is offered is a better picture and better audio. PERIOD.



Wow! Silly me. The whole reason and only reason I bought Blue-ray and HD-DVD was BETTER PICTURE AND BETTER AUDIO. I feel so stupid now. I didn't know that I was supposed to buying BD and HD for internet features that I have had for close to twenty years via my computer!

Blu-ray will never achieve critical mass if the only thing that is offered is a better picture and better audio. PERIOD.

You do realize that single disc new release DVDs sell far better than two disc new release DVDs of the same title, right? A lot of people simply don't care about extras.

Thats crazy. Anyone that uses a pirated BD will be smart enough to not connect.

You give most consumers too much credit.

Eventually, they'll have to to get updates.

That's been the plan with updates all along.

Oh, sure... people could buy a player and choose to update it only by burned disc, but what if they removed that option? What if you had to hook it up to get Ratatouille 2 to play? All of your viewing history is saved and uploaded when you access the internet with it.

You give most consumers too much credit.

Eventually, they'll have to to get updates.

That's been the plan with updates all along.

Oh, sure... people could buy a player and choose to update it only by burned disc, but what if they removed that option? What if you had to hook it up to get Ratatouille 2 to play? All of your viewing history is saved and uploaded when you access the internet with it.

WHAT?!?? So now you won't be able to update FW without being connected?? Boy I sure hope not. A whole lot of 1.0 and 1.1 players out there... No, the people who partake in such things tend to me more saavy than that. Just get the FW update on disk and stay one step ahead. I understand what the FW is for; I just think it is one more strike against Blu-ray. I don't think it will slow pirating and it will continue to be a nuisance for customers.

We are discussing optional interactive features for movies, not required Big Brother involvement in your viewing habits. I will be the first to lead the charge against any CE company or studio that would attempt to weasel its way into my home by such means. I just don't see it happening.

I also believe that pirated movies are overstated in the US. I think a small circle of people partake in such things and do so heavily. I don't believe that those individuals would buy the movies they steal and the net effects to the studios is negligable. With so few BD production lines and high cost of media I don't think BD has anywhere near the exposure to piracy that DVD and HD DVD have. Worldwide it is more of an issue.

I used it for update (firmware)
was slow but nice to have .

...which would be a good reason for people to just yank the internet connection on their player.

The problem thus far is that there has been absolutely nothing compelling about any of the web-enabled offerings to date, and there doesn't seem to be much prospect in the future (for those that disagree, I'll point to the much-lauded dotcom bubble around 2000, where people ended up betting on web connectivity taking the world by storm - and seeing it fail miserably in most implementations).

Does anyone have any information as to what percentage of HD DVD players was actually connected to the internet? I do remember reading something somewhere that this figure was ~30% or so. Given the poster demographic here, I'm sure if we did a poll here, the figures would be substantially higher.

Who would even have access to the internet features, how many people have easy ethernet access in their ht? I have my router in the computer room.
If the PS3 didnt have wifi, profile 2.0 features would be lost on me.


There are a lot more people that have easy Internet/Ethernet/Powerline/Wifi networking to their home theater setups than people than can truly take advantage of lossless audio on the discs. :cool:

Personally, I'd be all for having every single extra, trailer and other worthless crap as internet features. That way they could fill up the entire BD50 disc with pure Audio and Video goodness.

Profile doesn't mean much to me though since I have a PS3 and essentially have a HTPC hooked up to my TV with wireless internet.

I also believe that pirated movies are overstated in the US. I think a small circle of people partake in such things and do so heavily. I don't believe that those individuals would buy the movies they steal and the net effects to the studios is negligable.

I have always thought this as well. A pirated disc doesn't necessarily equate into a lost sale. At least not on a one to one basis.

If all the interactivity, all the extra features capabilities are worthless as many of you are suggesting, that pits Blu-Ray and its high price, firmware requiring, still need a DVD copy for the car, and ~1M SAs against the commoditized low cost efficiency of DVD with over 120M players. The ONLY benefit is then better AQ and PQ and as many threads out there complain, it isn't that much of a difference. I think if we really are talking about JUST the movies, Blu-Ray will not catch on and DVD will reign supreme.
Sad but true. The only benefit of HDM versus SD DVD that matters to most J6P is just AQ and PQ, not Internet feature or PiP / commentary / extras, which J6P does not and will not pay much attention anyway.

Internet capability of HD-DVD did not give any advantage to HD-DVD's side in war against Blu-ray or SD-DVD, did it? Even if all current Blu-ray/HD-DVD player had Internet and profile 2.0 capability, it would not prompt any mass adoption of Blu-ray/HD-DVD by J6P. Simply, they don't care whether the HDM player/disc has such capability or not because they will not utilize such capability much anyway.

Moreover, on the HDTV/audio system owned by J6P and to the eyes/ears of J6P, the benefit of HDM in AQ and PQ is not so compelling enough, too, that J6P are not rushing to upgrade their DVD player to HDM player.

These realities about HDM are sad but ture. These are why HDM disc sale was less than 1% of SD-DVD last year. I fear that Blu-Ray will never catch on DVD and reign supreme.

I think part of the problem here is that there haven't been any exciting online features yet. Development for them would be fairly expensive and HD DVD never got to the sales points they might see some benefit and Blu-Ray doesn't have a single 2.0 player in the field. So there has been no real push for the studios to invest in such things. This doesn't mean that they can't do so in the future. The profile issue for Blu is bigger than people may think because it not only prevents many users from getting these features but it creates a real road block on the initiation of the technology. I mean even at Xmas maybe 10% of players sold will be 2.0? The PS3 is again the key. How many PS3 owners out there will use the player as a 2.0 player and use the features?

There are a lot of really cool things they can do with this technology but Blu has to overcome some of their earlier indiscretions for it to happen.

I think part of the problem here is that there haven't been any exciting online features yet. Development for them would be fairly expensive and HD DVD never got to the sales points they might see some benefit and Blu-Ray doesn't have a single 2.0 player in the field. So there has been no real push for the studios to invest in such things. This doesn't mean that they can't do so in the future. The profile issue for Blu is bigger than people may think because it not only prevents many users from getting these features but it creates a real road block on the initiation of the technology. I mean even at Xmas maybe 10% of players sold will be 2.0? The PS3 is again the key. How many PS3 owners out there will use the player as a 2.0 player and use the features?

There are a lot of really cool things they can do with this technology but Blu has to overcome some of their earlier indiscretions for it to happen.
Good points. I think this is another example where the PS3 can pave the way for new technology adoption by the studios that will eventually lead to greater SA player adoption.

Does anyone have any information as to what percentage of HD DVD players was actually connected to the internet? I do remember reading something somewhere that this figure was ~30% or so. Given the poster demographic here, I'm sure if we did a poll here, the figures would be substantially higher.I don't know how many players are connected, but Universal and Paramount disclosed some usage stats back in December:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6509572.html

About 30% of the buyers of titles like Heroes, Knocked Up, or Evan Almighty accessed the online features. The Transformers web features were accessed by 80,000 unique users, and 31% of those returned as the features were being updated (which Paramount did for several weeks after release). I think these are quite good numbers at this early stage.

Personally, I think these features could be a big attraction especially for younger people who grew up with the net (the "MySpace generation"). Besides regularly updated content, I could imagine that Web-2.0-style community features (such as the sychronized viewing on Harry Potter, or scene sharing a la "300") could become popular. But there are still some usability issues to be solved (e.g. who wants to enter passwords etc. using a remote control?).

That is pretty solid considering the extras were pretty weak. Throw some good stuff on there and watch those figures grow.

I think part of the problem here is that there haven't been any exciting online features yet. Development for them would be fairly expensive and HD DVD never got to the sales points they might see some benefit and Blu-Ray doesn't have a single 2.0 player in the field. So there has been no real push for the studios to invest in such things. This doesn't mean that they can't do so in the future. The profile issue for Blu is bigger than people may think because it not only prevents many users from getting these features but it creates a real road block on the initiation of the technology. I mean even at Xmas maybe 10% of players sold will be 2.0? The PS3 is again the key. How many PS3 owners out there will use the player as a 2.0 player and use the features?

There are a lot of really cool things they can do with this technology but Blu has to overcome some of their earlier indiscretions for it to happen.

Yes, there may be lots of cool things that player connected to Internet can do.

But, it costs money. Movie studio should finance the production of the Internet feature from sales money of HDM disc itself. Selling the Internet feature itself and charging it separately from HDM price won't work. Only limited budget will be available to develop Internet feature. This will limits a quality and extent of Internet feature to "cheap/free" contents. Such cheap feature can not attract people. So there is little financial incentive for movie studio to invest heavily in Internet feature.

Cool Internet feature will drive player cost up, too. To support attractive and fast/eye-catching HD Internet feature, player should have quite demanding hardware and extensive firmware support. Playing cool Internet feature requires cool hardware, cool firmware, cool development system, cool development company, just as game console do. HD Internet feature that will rival PS/3 HD console game will require hardware rivaling PS/3 hardware: Cell CPU, graphics chip, large memory, and HDD. Movie industry/HDM player manufacturer company can not invest such huge sum of money to support Internet feature of HDM player as Sony or MicroSoft do in console game industry.

Standalone HDM player is not, can not be, and SHOULD not be game console.
.

Standard DVD's had plenty of interactive online features....where are the threads and discussions of those features???...elite pc home theater owners this one's for you...;)

Most people who rent SD DVDs don't even watch the special features that are included on the disk. What are the odds of those people downloading even more features?

Online features sound cool and enthusiasts might use them, but when/if HDM becomes mainstream, I'd be surprised if mainstream consumers (who buy/rent movies for the actual movie, not the resolution/LFE-channel loudness/interactivity or whatever that attracts early-adopters like us) change their behavior.

Apart from firmware updates, I suspect anything you get free won't be that interesting or really worth having.

Will there be unsolicited ads, like the pop-up ads in adware infested computers? And what about porn trailers?

Speaking of internet features...

There is a thread in the HD DVD software forum that points out an issue with the LFE channel for the US Pressing of Transformers. Would you find an internet connected feature that would update base sound levels kind of useless?

One would hope this kind of thing wouldn't make it past pre-press QA, but if it were unpdatable via a connected player. I for one would welcome such a feature.

There is a thread in the HD DVD software forum that points out an issue with the LFE channel for the US Pressing of Transformers. Would you find an internet connected feature that would update base sound levels kind of useless?

How would it do that though? A downloadable corrected soundtrack that would sit forever on your player's HDD?

How would it do that though? A downloadable corrected soundtrack that would sit forever on your player's HDD?

No, more like it would download a file into flash (required by HD DVD and BD 2.0) with corrected output levels per scene. The base tracks would still come off the source media, but the output would be altered based on the revised mixing levels.

So far, there hasn't been anything really useful, web wise, for either format. All gimmicks... Buying ringtones, sharing favorite chapters, etc. Something that could be done in other media, probably still better (certainly on a laptop and any decent mp3/ogg capable smartphone).

Downloadable current trailers, subtitles, commentary tracks, deleted scenes are all potentials that are completely unrealized so far.