I was curious if anyone has any numbers of what the prices of DVD's were compared to what HDM is at their respective life times? From what I remember DVD prices for movies seemed a lot lower then what HDM is now. I picked up The Matrix for $9.99 back on reel.com when it first came out. Heck I think I had owned a few movies before I got my first DVD player.

I was looking to pick up both Beowulf and 30 days of Night and the sticker shock hit. $54 for both movies.:eek: I don't recall DVD's being so high, but I am not sure if I trust my memory. It would be nice to see HDM come down in price.

I remember a LOT of online retailer competition when I was first getting into DVD. The release of DVD happened to coincide with the dot com boom, so everybody and their brother was trying to undercut each other online with crazy sales.

I think what might be more instructive about pricing is to compare some MSRP prices of a couple of upcoming day-and-date DVD and BD releases:

Disney's National Treasure, Book of Secrets:
Single disc DVD: $29.99
2-Disc gold Collector's Edition: $34.99
Blu-ray (All extras of collector's edition, plus some more): $34.99

Fox Aliens Versus Predator: Requiem:
2-disc DVD: $34.98
Blu-ray (more extras than DVD): $39.98

In other words, I don't think the pricing disparity between DVD and Blu-ray is truly as great as what you see currently at the retailer. Remember, retailers set their prices based on the volume they sell. Since HD is still a small seller, they can't afford to trim their margins much yet, and they're not [yet] giving loss leader prices on newly released BD titles. When things really get rolling, however, we'll see a LOT more bargains in the Blu-ray section of stores. Also, a lot of the really cheap DVDs have been in the marketplace for years, so the MSRP drops over time as the studios are looking to attract the more casual buyers to the title. So, don't compare a DVD that's been out for years with a newly released title on Blu-ray; they're apples and oranges.

You just have to wait until the price comes down. I just picked up a bunch of HD DVDs for less than $10 each. Watch in HD DVD software and Blu Ray software deal threads. Don't support the sort of piracy being practiced by the studios on new releases.

I had no idea DVD MSRP's were still so high!

In 1999, when I first got into DVD the prices generally ranged from $25 MSRP to $35 MSRP, depending on studio, with a few rare exceptions (Criterion were higher, there were a few $20 MSRPs). Fox was bad back then too with $35 bare bones non-anamorphis releases.

Of course with the dot coms fighting, prices online were crazy good. But MSRP wasn't really that different. At most you're talking about $5 more for MSRP today, and that's almost 10 years later with plenty of inflation.

The problem is two fold: 1) No one's really discount HD titles today. People got used to B & Ms discounting new releasing, but they're not doing that for HD. And the online prices are merely reasonable instead on insanely good as in 1999; and 2) DVDs have fallen in price so that older DVD releases are dirt cheap. That wasn't always true of DVDs, but people have gotten used to it and almost expect it, making Blu-Ray a harder sell.

I forgot about the dot com wars with DVD. I think that is a major factor for why DVD seemed so much cheaper to me then HD. I guess for now I'll probably skip new releases and just go with sales. There are enough movies out that I have not picked up yet that will get discounted.

...it's just Fox keeping the average MSRP high :p

In 1997 when DVD launched (first in selected markets then country-wide), the initial titles had MSRPs of USD $19.95 to $24.99. Soon after, of course, the idiotic dot-com days blew online prices down to nothing. :) Thank you, Reel.com, 800.com, DVD Express, etc.

Inflation adusted $19.95 in 1997 is ~$25 in 2008... $24.99 is ~$32.

I remember a LOT of online retailer competition when I was first getting into DVD. The release of DVD happened to coincide with the dot com boom, so everybody and their brother was trying to undercut each other online with crazy sales.

I think what might be more instructive about pricing is to compare some MSRP prices of a couple of upcoming day-and-date DVD and BD releases:

Disney's National Treasure, Book of Secrets:
Single disc DVD: $29.99
2-Disc gold Collector's Edition: $34.99
Blu-ray (All extras of collector's edition, plus some more): $34.99

Fox Aliens Versus Predator: Requiem:
2-disc DVD: $34.98
Blu-ray (more extras than DVD): $39.98

In other words, I don't think the pricing disparity between DVD and Blu-ray is truly as great as what you see currently at the retailer. Remember, retailers set their prices based on the volume they sell. Since HD is still a small seller, they can't afford to trim their margins much yet, and they're not [yet] giving loss leader prices on newly released BD titles. When things really get rolling, however, we'll see a LOT more bargains in the Blu-ray section of stores. Also, a lot of the really cheap DVDs have been in the marketplace for years, so the MSRP drops over time as the studios are looking to attract the more casual buyers to the title. So, don't compare a DVD that's been out for years with a newly released title on Blu-ray; they're apples and oranges.


Those prices you quote are in the minority,average DVD retail price is $19.99USD and HDM is $34.95.
Of course new releases and collector editions are more.

Here is some info on DVD's early days as far as number of available titles and amount of discs sold:

1.6 What DVD titles are available?

As with hardware, rosy predictions of hundreds of movie titles for
Christmas of 1996 failed to materialize. Only a handful of DVD titles,mostly music videos, were available in Japan for the November 1996 launchof DVD. Actual feature films began to appear in December. By April therewere over 150 titles in Japan. Movies appeared in the US in March of 1997.

As of June 1999 there are about 3,500 titles available in the US and over 5,000 worldwide. Compared to other launches (CD, LD, etc.) this is a huge number. Almost 19,000 discs were purchased in the first two weeks of the US launch -- more than expected.

InfoTech predicted over 600 titles by the end of 1997 and more than 8,000 titles by 2000. By December 1997, over 1
million individual DVD discs were shipped. By June 1999, over 30 million discs had shipped.
http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/dvd-format-video/1-6-What-DVD-titles-are-available.html

LDs were $39.95 for a bare bones picture, and in CLV! No freeze frame unless you had the newer players.

I guess that saying, "What goes around, comes around" holds true!

In 1999, when I first got into DVD the prices generally ranged from $25 MSRP to $35 MSRP, depending on studio, with a few rare exceptions (Criterion were higher, there were a few $20 MSRPs). Fox was bad back then too with $35 bare bones non-anamorphis releases.

Of course with the dot coms fighting, prices online were crazy good. But MSRP wasn't really that different. At most you're talking about $5 more for MSRP today, and that's almost 10 years later with plenty of inflation.

The problem is two fold: 1) No one's really discount HD titles today. People got used to B & Ms discounting new releasing, but they're not doing that for HD. And the online prices are merely reasonable instead on insanely good as in 1999; and 2) DVDs have fallen in price so that older DVD releases are dirt cheap. That wasn't always true of DVDs, but people have gotten used to it and almost expect it, making Blu-Ray a harder sell.
I don't think you are correct about DVD pricing. The very first day DVD's were sold at Best Buy when the format premiered, I bought "Twister" for $19.95 and it was not a sale item but the standard price. The clerk didn't know what I was talking about when I told him I wanted to buy a DVD and had to get the manager who went to the stock room and found the "disks" that were supposed to have been put out for sale on the first day.

LDs were $39.95 for a bare bones picture, and in CLV! No freeze frame unless you had the newer players.

I guess that saying, "What goes around, comes around" holds true!


Ah yes, I remember them well. I bought one of the first Magnavox players on the market. Some of the early laserdiscs mastered in the U.S. were horrible. They required flipping, and often the picture and sound at the beginning of the disc was not that good.

By the time the format was near the end of its cycle, they were quite well done.

Here is something to think about. If you bought a car, computer, refrigerator, HDM player, camera, toilet paper, or underwear that had 5 times the performance you would expect to pay more.

Tons of catalog DVDs can be had for $5-10 or less all over the net. Heck you can even buy DVDs for $1 at the Dollar Store. But other than specials I have yet to see a HD-DVD or BR disc list for less than $20 and most are $25 to $35 (BR). It will be a long, long time until HDM discs drop even close to the current DVD price level, and that will ensure that DVD stays on top for many years to come. High prices just encourage piracy, so expect the studios to start paying politicians to pass even more draconian laws that make the average consumer miserable while letting the real pirates get off scott free.

Tons of catalog DVDs can be had for $5-10 or less all over the net. Heck you can even buy DVDs for $1 at the Dollar Store. But other than specials I have yet to see a HD-DVD or BR disc list for less than $20 and most are $25 to $35 (BR). It will be a long, long time until HDM discs drop even close to the current DVD price level, and that will ensure that DVD stays on top for many years to come. High prices just encourage piracy, so expect the studios to start paying politicians to pass even more draconian laws that make the average consumer miserable while letting the real pirates get off scott free.

I thought that disregard for laws and immorality were the root cause for piracy?

Couldn't you just download songs for FREE off napster at one point?


As far as your $1 Dollar Store DVDs... wow, you watch that crap?

Hi guys, here are a few more examples I took from amazon completely at random.

Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
Blu-ray (2 disc set with exclusive special features) = $22.95
DVD 2 disc collector's edition set = $22.99
DVD single disc = $14.99

300
Blu-ray = $23.95
2 disc DVD = $22.99
Full screen single disc dvd = $19.98
Widescreen single disc dvd = $13.99

I am legend
Blu-ray = $24.95
2 disc DVD = $22.99
Full screen single dvd = $18.99
Widescreen single disc dvd = $18.99

No Country for Old Men (releases march 11)
Blu-ray = $23.95
DVD = $18.99

Stargate
Blu-ray = $13.95
DVD = $6.99

Total Recall
Blu-ray = $13.95
Special limited edition single disc DVD = $12.99
Special edition single disc DVD = $9.95

Planet Earth - The complete BBC series
Blu-ray = $66.95
DVD = $54.99

Underworld
Blu-ray = $16.95
Full screen single disc DVD = $12.99
Widescreen single disc DVD = $10.99
2 disc extended cut DVD = $11.99


I personally think the extra cost of the Blu-ray titles is well worth it, even now at this early stage. And by the time J6P buys into the format en masse, economies of scale will have kicked into play and you will likely be able to get Blu-ray titles for what you can get DVD titles right now.

And by the time J6P buys into the format en masse, economies of scale will have kicked into play and you will likely be able to get Blu-ray titles for what you can get DVD titles right now.


Why do you think J6P will ever buy into spending $400 or even $300 on a BR player?

The problem isnt the movies since you can rent a BR for a reasonable price now, its the entry barrier.

The difference between 1080p and 480p uscaled to 1080i just isnt that great for the average J6P ( I still watch SD DVDs its NOT A BIG DEAL FOR NORMAL PEOPLE and yes I have HD-DVD and BluRay players). Never has QUALITY won the volume sales race therefore those who think BR is X times greater then DVD quality are simply in the minority on the whole "We care about quality" debate.

Maybe a sign of things to come, at least for catalog titles, Short Circuit released by Image has set a suggested list price of $19.95 for the Blu-ray it has DTS-HD Lossless Master Audio 5.1 Surround audio. It could even be cheaper as none of the suggested $40 movies sell at that price.
Image's Day and Date are priced at $35.98.

Also Echo Bridge will release some at $14.95 it includes TV miniseries 10.5: Apocalypse, Category 7: The End of the World, The Curse Of King Tut's Tomb and 3 others I think they are made for TV movies.

Ah yes, I remember them well. I bought one of the first Magnavox players on the market. Some of the early laserdiscs mastered in the U.S. were horrible. They required flipping, and often the picture and sound at the beginning of the disc was not that good.

By the time the format was near the end of its cycle, they were quite well done.

The first LD prices were not at all high - in fact, they were downright cheap - single-sided educational titles were $5.95, double-sided, TV movies and pre-1960 films were $9.95 regardless of the number of sides or discs and feature-films were $15.95. All were in the CAV Standard Play format so a typical movie was 3-discs on 5 sides. In June of 1979 the pricing for feature-films jumped from $15.95 to $24.95. Still all in Standard Play. This pricing held until 1982. From then on until 1990 or so the 'average' price for a new title on LD was $29.95. After that it was around $35.

LD started out super low-priced and then just went up and up over the years.

Why do you think J6P will ever buy into spending $400 or even $300 on a BR player?Why do you think they'll have to spend that much? In three years, J6P will have the choice between buying an upconverting DVD player, or a Blu-ray player that's backward compatible with DVD, for essentially the same price. Who in their right mind wouldn't opt for the Blu-ray player, just to be future proofed?

Hi guys, here are a few more examples I took from amazon completely at random.Thanks for that list, it was very educational. It nicely backs up my original point that the BD prices really aren't as out of line as many think they are. The problem we currently have is that most DVDs in the marketplace have been there for quite some time. Even the catalog titles available on Blu-ray are really "new releases", since they have only been out, at most, a year or so.

I guess the main point is that we need to be patient. Hardware and software prices will drop with time. Of course, if titles are just too expensive for you, stick to rentals or DVD. Nobody's forcing you to buy. :D

I get SOOO tired of the endlessly repeated lines (in effect) "if it's too expensive don't buy" and "if you don't want HDM why are you here?".

Come on guys ... there is no HDM vs DVD forum and it's totally legitimate to try to discuss the likely future of Blu-ray in the context of any and all video formats (DVD, VOD, DD, etc).

What would the point be of limiting discussion to Blu-ray alone?

Here is something to think about. If you bought a car, computer, refrigerator, HDM player, camera, toilet paper, or underwear that had 5 times the performance you would expect to pay more.

I paid $2500 for my first desktop back in 1997. It was a pentium 133mhz.

I just bought a computer computer with amd dual core 4500 for $350.

I guess that blows the theory away.

Maybe a sign of things to come, at least for catalog titles, Short Circuit released by Image has set a suggested list price of $19.95 for the Blu-ray it has DTS-HD Lossless Master Audio 5.1 Surround audio. It could even be cheaper as none of the suggested $40 movies sell at that price.
Image's Day and Date are priced at $35.98.

Also Echo Bridge will release some at $14.95 it includes TV miniseries 10.5: Apocalypse, Category 7: The End of the World, The Curse Of King Tut's Tomb and 3 others I think they are made for TV movies.

Those tv minisieres better get a lot cheaper than that. You can get them OTA and record them for free if you have a tivo in HD.

I paid $2500 for my first desktop back in 1997. It was a pentium 133mhz.

I just bought a computer computer with amd dual core 4500 for $350.

I guess that blows the theory away.

It is a shame but computers and tvs are the only 2 electronic items i can
think of over the years that have continually gotten better while keeping
the cost lower.

Why do you think they'll have to spend that much? In three years, J6P will have the choice between buying an upconverting DVD player, or a Blu-ray player that's backward compatible with DVD, for essentially the same price. Who in their right mind wouldn't opt for the Blu-ray player, just to be future proofed?

Key word right mind,a lot are still campaigning for mental health.

Google for Inflation Calculator.

An average DVD movie in 96 was about $25 some more some less. But $25 comes to about $33 today. With some BD prices higher and some lower, I think the pricing is right on to what they were 10 years ago.

Though, in most everyone's mind, including myself, $19.99 is the sweet spot.

Thanks for that list, it was very educational. It nicely backs up my original point that the BD prices really aren't as out of line as many think they are. The problem we currently have is that most DVDs in the marketplace have been there for quite some time. Even the catalog titles available on Blu-ray are really "new releases", since they have only been out, at most, a year or so.

I guess the main point is that we need to be patient. Hardware and software prices will drop with time. Of course, if titles are just too expensive for you, stick to rentals or DVD. Nobody's forcing you to buy. :D

Thanks Jamie E. I agree completely. Great points.


I paid $2500 for my first desktop back in 1997. It was a pentium 133mhz.

I just bought a computer computer with amd dual core 4500 for $350.

I guess that blows the theory away.

Yes, what you say is true. But the more relevant comparison is between different performing products at the same point in time. You should expect to pay more for a higher performing product than for a lesser performing product available at the same time. A 8GB iPod Nano should cost more than an 4GB iPod Nano, for example.

What you wrote simply demonstrates that the prices on tech products tends to go down as time goes by. Which is exactly what we can expect to happen with Blu-ray hardware and software over the next few years.

Google for Inflation Calculator.

An average DVD movie in 96 was about $25 some more some less. But $25 comes to about $33 today. With some BD prices higher and some lower, I think the pricing is right on to what they were 10 years ago.

Though, in most everyone's mind, including myself, $19.99 is the sweet spot.

I agree, Blu-ray software prices are just about exactly where you would expect them to be at this point in its life cycle. Many people hold the absurd
idea that if Blu-ray titles can't be lowered to the same price as DVDs right away that Blu-ray has no chance of mainstream success. But that would be like claiming that HDTVs were doomed to failure if they weren't available for less than $500 dollars after 2 years of being on the market. Absurd.

Here is something to think about. If you bought a car, computer, refrigerator, HDM player, camera, toilet paper, or underwear that had 5 times the performance you would expect to pay more.I would expect to pay more for the hardware (the car/computer/fridge), but not for the software that goes into it (gas/programs/food).

I thought that disregard for laws and immorality were the root cause for piracy?Those are the root causes, but they are exacerbated by high prices.

I agree, Blu-ray software prices are just about exactly where you would expect them to be at this point in its life cycle. Many people hold the absurd
idea that if Blu-ray titles can't be lowered to the same price as DVDs right away that Blu-ray has no chance of mainstream success. But that would be like claiming that HDTVs were doomed to failure if they weren't available for less than $500 dollars after 2 years of being on the market. Absurd.When DVD came out, it was clearly superior to VHS in every comparable measure of quality and convenience. With Blu-Ray bringing a much smaller improvement in quality over DVD than what DVD brought over VHS, with even a decrease in convenience compared to DVD because you can't easily rip BDs to a media server or use the discs in portable or car players, Blu-Ray isn't going to have much success if they insist on trying to maintain the same sort of price premium that DVD had.

I'm going to start a new drinking game. Every time I hear the argument about DVD being superior to VHS, I'll take a drink. Every time I hear that HDM is not as big a leap over DVD, I'll take a drink. Every time I hear that it won't play in my minivan, I'll take another drink. (Not while driving the minivan of course.)

There's a few more I think. $199. Gulp. J6p can't see the difference. Swig. Not enough HDTVs out there. Slurp. This could be fun.

I paid $2500 for my first desktop back in 1997. It was a pentium 133mhz.

I just bought a computer computer with amd dual core 4500 for $350.

I guess that blows the theory away.

Price any top of the line AlienWare PC's lately, better bring much more that a measly $2500 dollars...

I'm going to start a new drinking game. Every time I hear the argument about DVD being superior to VHS, I'll take a drink. Every time I hear that HDM is not as big a leap over DVD, I'll take a drink. Every time I hear that it won't play in my minivan, I'll take another drink. (Not while driving the minivan of course.)

There's a few more I think. $199. Gulp. J6p can't see the difference. Swig. Not enough HDTVs out there. Slurp. This could be fun.

It gets really exhausting seeing every thread devolve into format war rhetoric, doesn't it?

Brandon

It gets really exhausting seeing every thread devolve into format war rhetoric, doesn't it?

Brandon

Yeah, it seems many HD DVD supporters can't let it go. They think they are still fighting against Blu-ray, as if the format war never ended.

I just want the best picture and sound quality that I can get because I love movies. That is why I got into this hobby in the first place.

Yeah, it seems many HD DVD supporters can't let it go. They think they are still fighting against Blu-ray, as if the format war never ended.

I just want the best picture and sound quality that I can get because I love movies. That is why I got into this hobby in the first place.

I agree, it seems like every other thread just rehashes of those arguments.

I would expect to pay more for the hardware (the car/computer/fridge), but not for the software that goes into it (gas/programs/food).

Oh really? Should I expect then to pay the same for PS3 and Xbox 360 games as I do for my PSP games? Hardly. That's not the way it works.
A brand new PSP game like God of War: Chains of Olympus costs $39.99 or less.
Whereas a brand new PS3 game like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune costs $59.99.
Same is true of movie downloads, you are going to pay more for the HD versions.

Yeah, it seems many HD DVD supporters can't let it go. They think they are still fighting against Blu-ray, as if the format war never ended.

I just want the best picture and sound quality that I can get because I love movies. That is why I got into this hobby in the first place.

It's still being fought on both sides, though obviously BD supporters don't have any reason to be resentful or have sour grapes. Still, the entire format war argument redux is old. It's just so...

...2007.

Brandon