This guy can't possibly be serious. I doubt I'll see an article more ridiculous than this one (http://www.tvpredictions.com/toshibasony022808.htm) for a long while:

Sony & Toshiba Should Aid HD DVD Owners
HD DVD's exit will leave a bad taste in the mouths of millions.
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (February 28, 2008) -- Toshiba has a moral responsibility to provide either a discount or refund for the nearly one million people who now own HD DVD players (standalone and XBox players.)

Toshiba, the leading company behind the HD DVD format, announced last week that it would exit the high-def disc business by the end of March, ceding victory to rival Blu-ray.

The decision means that current HD DVD players will soon be nearly obsolete; yes, they will still 'upconvert' standard-def DVDs, but the studios will stop releasing titles in the HD DVD format in the coming weeks.

Asked at a press conference last week about the current HD DVD audience, Toshiba officials basically shrugged their shoulders and said buyers knew what they were getting into -- a high-def format war that would likely produce a loser.

However, that is unacceptable. HD DVD owners committed their hard earned dollars on a brand new technology, giving Toshiba an opportunity to succeed in the war. But Toshiba seems too broken up with its own misfortune to consider the plight of their customers.

At the least, Toshiba should offer HD DVD owners discounts on related Toshiba products, such as high-def sets.

Likewise, Sony, the company behind Blu-ray, has a responsibility here as well because its participation prolonged the format war, leading to more people buying HD DVD players.

In my view, Sony should offer HD DVD owners a discount on Blu-ray players. This would not only be the right thing to do -- but it would keep a sizable number of high-def disc enthusiasts happy.

It would also send a signal to consumers that investing in a unproven technology is a shared risk, that people will not be left holding the bag.

If Toshiba and Sony fail to act, consumers may think twice -- or three times -- the next time they're asked to buy a new electronics product.

I've been burned by making poor format choices in the past.... I don't recall Nintendo hooking me up with an NES discount just because my Sega Master System failed in the market place when I was a kid. Caveat emptor!

Just one man's opinion. However, I wouldn't be shocked if other people felt the same way. I do agree that we all run a risk when investing in new technology.

I think that Toshiba has already lost plenty of money.
Blu-ray could have failed, would that mean Sony would be on the hook?
Toshiba was only one of a number of companies pushing HD DVD.
Let it go, already.

Thats not a real article. Not when the author's name is "Swanni".

He should be banned from writing ever again.

i think it would be great pr and a smart marketing move by sony to offer hd dvd owners the chance to buy a ps3 for $250 for a limited time period.

sony would look magnanimous and would get a very important core of a/v enthusiasts and early adopter aboard the br platform. they could convert hundreds of thousands of former hd owners to new buyers of br movies and ps3 games.

after all the money they spent to get the studios and retail sellers to go br exclusive, this would cost them peanuts in comparision and really jump start br mass adoption.

not likely to happen but it does make some business sense. i as an early hd buyer would take them up on such an offer and would be buying ps3 games and br movies now instead of staying on the sidelines for a year or more waiting for a $200 2.0 player

i don't look to sony or tosh to bail me out for my decision. i knew the chances i was taking. just think this idea has value to sony to accelerate the br community

Thats not a real article. Not when the author's name is "Swanni".

He should be banned from writing ever again.
You do realize that Phillip "Swanni" Swann is the president of TVPredictions.com, right?

Granted, I think the whole idea of "let's make the early adopters that got burned feel better" is a little too Utopian for my taste. A lot of the people buying in to HD DVD did so with foreknowledge of what they were getting into, with full awareness that, like any new tech, it was a gamble.

But before you write Swanni off, his prediction accuracy has been pretty good; better, in fact, than more publicized analysts (Ron Enderle comes to mind).

Look at his prediction from December 12, 2007
http://www.tvpredictions.com/swannisix121207.htm

He didn't predict the fallout correctly, but he's the only analyst I've seen go on the record and predict Warner's move correctly, and within the correct time frame.

At the least, Toshiba should offer HD DVD owners discounts on related Toshiba products, such as high-def sets.


Ummm.....if they didn't have an HD set to begin with, why would they have purchased an HD DVD player???

As a early HD DVD supporter I don't expect any type of compensation from either Toshiba or the BDA. My preferred format lost (though I have owned a BD player for over a year). There are risks in any new format(s), if you are not prepared to lose you should not early adopt. I love my XA2 and the discs I bought on HD DVD but I plan on supporting the next high def optical format and that is Blu-ray. Please don't flame me. I like high def movies and I will not deny myself the pleasure of watching them.

Ummm.....if they didn't have an HD set to begin with, why would they have purchased an HD DVD player???


Ummm....maybe to utilize the player's sd upconversion capabilities.

Mr. Wally, I'm with you. If nothing else, this is a good boost for CE in the current economic slowdown. Limited time $100 off for a Bluray player, 10% off for a Tosh TV or computer (up to certain ceiling). Everyone is happy. I think the movie studios should chip in too, heck, they want to sell movies.

OK, I can certainly see why someone might think Toshiba has some kind of moral obligation. I disagree, but I can see where he's coming from. But Sony? Toshiba's stubborness and stupidity is hardly their fault. What should they and the rest of BD backers done - give up and anger their own customers, the ones who chose the better, more sustainable format?

CORRECTION


Sony & Toshiba Should Aid HD DVD Owners
HD DVD's exit will leave a bad taste in the mouths of about a million.
By Swanni

This guy can't possibly be serious. I doubt I'll see an article more ridiculous than this one (http://www.tvpredictions.com/toshibasony022808.htm) for a long while:

"Likewise, Sony, the company behind Blu-ray, has a responsibility here as well because its participation prolonged the format war, leading to more people buying HD DVD players."Since Swanni feels that Sony has a responsibility for people buying Toshiba players, maybe Swanni has a responsibility too, since he could have warned people much earlier. Or reporters in general, since as a group they prolonged the format war compared to what they could have done (like all picked the eventual winner correctly a long time ago).

If Sony wants to do something as a business decision I don't see anything wrong with that, but if Blu-ray had lost I sure wouldn't feel that Toshiba had a responsibility to people who bought Sony players instead of Toshiba players, and it seems rather ridiculous to me for Sony to have a responsibility because Toshiba decided to fight Sony and most of the industry this time after Sony gave into Toshiba on DVD and then some people chose not to take Sony's advice on HDM and bought the competition instead of them.

For the group I'm in that bought players for both formats I think it is especially ridiculous for any of us to feel that one of the sides owes us something because we bought a format that has lost, but if offers are made to people with HD DVD players, it would have to include people that already own both formats.

--Darin

I can't imagine Sony, Matsushita or any other member of the BDA being upset if people are mad at Toshiba.

He should be banned from writing ever again.
Swanni knew you were going to write that even before you did.:rolleyes:

Isn't he the guy that got the launch date wrong about 1000 times before for he lucked across the eventual launch date for CNN-HD?

i don't think tosh owes us hd owners anything. they gave us a superb product at prices far below the br offerings. they did their best and lost. if you want to be angry with anyone on the hd dvd team it should be ms as they could have done a lot more to support the format. how about add ons to the 360 for $50. that would have spurred a lot more sales. how about ponying up some cash to keep warner neutral or hd exclusive. looks to me ms got into this thing just to make sony lose a bundle in their gaming division.

still think sony would be real smart to throw a bone to hd owners.

no one held a gun to my head this is stupid

i think it would be great pr and a smart marketing move by sony to offer hd dvd owners the chance to buy a ps3 for $250 for a limited time period.

sony would look magnanimous and would get a very important core of a/v enthusiasts and early adopter aboard the br platform. they could convert hundreds of thousands of former hd owners to new buyers of br movies and ps3 games.

after all the money they spent to get the studios and retail sellers to go br exclusive, this would cost them peanuts in comparision and really jump start br mass adoption.

not likely to happen but it does make some business sense. i as an early hd buyer would take them up on such an offer and would be buying ps3 games and br movies now instead of staying on the sidelines for a year or more waiting for a $200 2.0 player

i don't look to sony or tosh to bail me out for my decision. i knew the chances i was taking. just think this idea has value to sony to accelerate the br community
There are some of us who just don't WANT a game machine-- BD-player included or not!

There are some of us who just don't WANT a game machine-- BD-player included or not!

understood. but if sony wants me to jump on the br bandwagon now, i want something i can upgrade to 2.0 when its finally released. so ps3 it is.

plus from sony's point of view, it they're going to provide an incentive to hd owners, the ps3 makes the most sense because of the potential for games and movie sales.

I'd gladly take a Blu-Ray player from Sony if they

A. Provide me with a 2.0 player
B. Replaced my 26 movies
C. Do it all for the 400 bucks I spent on the above.

Oh that cant be possible your say? Well guess I feel great about my purchases then :D

This is the typical take-no-responsibility complaining that is all too common today; similar to the people harping for a government bailout on their 103%, LTV adjustable-rate home loans.

There is no reward without risk.

no one held a gun to my head this is stupid

Yep. I bought an A20 for $299, Matrix collection for $69, and other titles for $14-25 last year. I basically forked out over $400-500 in 3-4 months on a now dead format.
I did this consciously knowing that HD DVD may die like it has but I'm not angry. It's the price of early adoption and anyone not willing to risk hundreds of dollars during the early adoption phase when there are 2 formats completing, you have no business buying during early adoption or shouldn't be asking for refunds or rebates when your format of choice is dead.

Remember this is America. If I wake up late for work someone else is responsible.

I think Toshiba should be responsible for punitive damages and we should also be compensated for mental anguish. :rolleyes:

Also looking for compensation on my 8-track's, cassette's, Beta tape's, MD's, DAT's, CED's LD's, and Elcaste's

Remember this is America. If I wake up late for work someone else is responsible.

I think Toshiba should be responsible for punitive damages and we should also be compensated for mental anguish. :rolleyes:

Also looking for compensation on my 8-track's, cassette's, Beta tape's, MD's, DAT's, CED's LD's, and Elcaste's

Exactly. Blame anyone but me. Some people are just complainers. Anyone who bought in HD DVD (including myself) probably fit all of the following:

1) knew there was a format war and Toshiba could lose, or were willfully ignorant to that fact.

2) bought an HD DVD machine at substantial discount (not true of first generation models for the most part), in essence getting a good machine for cheaper than it would normally go for

3) got subsidies like 5 free movies and potentially other discounts on discs to help build a library

And yet some will still complain!

Ummm.....if they didn't have an HD set to begin with, why would they have purchased an HD DVD player???

Ummm....maybe to utilize the player's sd upconversion capabilities.

LOL! Remind me, what do you watch upconverted DVDs on again?

Considering the extremely low disposable income of mine I would wholeheartedly welcome swap moves by Studios and the CEs.

Dumb, I knew what I was doing, no one had me under the gun.

Add HDDVD to my graveyard of dead tech:D

C-64
Commodore Amiga
Colecovision
Atari 2600
Sega Dreamcast
3DO

The article follows my own sentiments pretty well.

The question isn't about being "fair" or "nice", the question is: what is good business.

It is good business for Sony to reach out to HD DVD supporters and try to bring them on board. It will be good business for Toshiba to remember that they will want to sell folks something else later.

Some sort of trade-in or compensation is very strongly in the interest of these companies. You only need read this forum to understand this.

Also: Whether you agree or not with this column, consider the following. "Swanni" is doing a very good job of covering the entire HDTV marketplace. I read a ton of stuff every day, and his column is a good summary. [I have also contributed to his column and periodically correspond with him, he knows his stuff. If he does make a mistake, he fixes it.] I think that what he has done in the last year is also very much improved.

Folks, please reconsider these posts.

I think if anyone owes anything to the HD-DVD early adopters its Toshiba. They could've prevented this format war from the beginning by not letting their greed get the best of them and push an inferior physical disk for DVD royalties. If they had thought about the best interest of the consumer they would have compromised with the other Japanese manufacturers and gone on to produce good bluray players that wouldn't be paperweights now. THEY should be offering trade-ins for any model that cost more than $200. The fire sale models can be excluded, as most owners probably bought them to be upconverters anyway.

In 2006-2007 Toshiba did the right thing by promoting their HD DVD format due to it's finalized specifications and the uncertainty that was prevailing in the Blu-ray camp. Put the blame on Warner for not switching sides before CES'2007.

Yeah... I agree, the consumer shares in the responsibility. I must point out however that both Sony and Toshiba promoted their products as if they were the sole HD alternative. Nobody that bought an HD DVD player or HD DVD's deserves anything except the harsh reality of what spending their hard earned money on a format battle has bought them. This could deter a lot of electronics purchases in the future form the very same people and allow righteousness from those who refused to buy either format to this point.

I also think there would be incentives for the BDA to offer some kind of olive branch to HD DVD consumers. There are a lot of them that feel burned and have no intention of latching on to another format even if it appears to be the only one. I think while the BDA have claimed victory in the HDM arena, they are missing the boat big time on progressing consumers to Blu-Ray from SD-DVD. They longer they keep prices out of reach for the average consumer and refuse to recognize the 100's of thousands that chose HD DVD, the more at risk they put their format from serious competition from other future ideas, formats, and delivery sources.

You do realize that Phillip "Swanni" Swann is the president of TVPredictions.com, right?

Granted, I think the whole idea of "let's make the early adopters that got burned feel better" is a little too Utopian for my taste. A lot of the people buying in to HD DVD did so with foreknowledge of what they were getting into, with full awareness that, like any new tech, it was a gamble.

But before you write Swanni off, his prediction accuracy has been pretty good; better, in fact, than more publicized analysts (Ron Enderle comes to mind).

Look at his prediction from December 12, 2007
http://www.tvpredictions.com/swannisix121207.htm

He didn't predict the fallout correctly, but he's the only analyst I've seen go on the record and predict Warner's move correctly, and within the correct time frame.

Whatever. I´ve visited his site once in a while, and I always marvel at his self-proclaimed magnificence. Notice (on his site) how often he talks of himself in 3rd person. Just weird. Haven´t been there for quite a while...

"Likewise, Sony, the company behind Blu-ray, has a responsibility here as well because its participation prolonged the format war, leading to more people buying HD DVD players." Sony, for marketing Blu-ray, is responsible for more people buying HD DVD? The magnitude of ignorance in just this statement is staggering. That article is SUCH A JOKE. You bet on the wrong horse, deal with it. There were two horses in the race, yours lost. Game over!

Early adopters on either side knew exactly what they were getting into, ESPECIALLY the ones who have been following HD DVD vs Blu-Ray very closely. It is unfortunate for HD DVD owners that their players will be obsolete, but that is simply the nature of early adoption. If you pick the wrong side, you lose. Everyone had the option of going red, blue, purple or waiting until the war had been decided before they invested their money. Neither Toshiba nor Sony are obligated to reimburse a single penny to HD DVD owners. It is a business, not a charity.

Many of us realize that it nearly went the other way. The fact is that Blu-Ray won and most of us knew that one side would eventually win. We did take a chance and some lost. I would think that it would be very smart for the Blu side to offer some kind of olive branch trade in to get the red side to come over. It would be a smart business decision and would get a lost of units sold. Warners could do the same for disks.

If Toshiba wants to really move forward they should come out with a great 2.0 Blu-Ray player and offer a trade in discount to those who bought their HD players. Think of the number of units they could sell and think of the good will that would be created.

I know this is wishful thinking!!!

blinx it is not about being logical. it is about intelligence and reason.

if your standing on the titanic , you see the ship going down.

now you are given 2 options. jump of the ship to survive, or stay on the ship and die.

that is how i see it, when Warner went bluray exclusive, it was game over.

still people kept buying hd-dvd players. now i do not say those people are stupid. it simply depends for what reason.

if you buy it so you think hd-dvd would still win the war after warner went bluray exclusive, then yeah i think you are stupid.

however if you would have bought it, simply so you could watch the movies like casablanca and some other movies that have not yet been released on bluray yet , or maybe never will be. then yes i can understand it.

however nobody can say you had to buy a hd-dvd player. you had that option to buy it. nobody held a gun to your head.

nobody said buy this hd-dvd player. because if you will, hd-dvd will win the war.

important is always reason and intelligence.

The article follows my own sentiments pretty well.

The question isn't about being "fair" or "nice", the question is: what is good business.


But what you state is not the "sentiment" of the article. I would agree, and I think many others do, that if Sony elected as a marketing / promotional expense to offer discounts for trade-in of HD-DVD players that might be a savvy move. But that's not even in the same ballpark of suggesting they have some "responsibility" to do so because their product survived a challenge from a rival manufacturer.

Here's what Swanni's op ed says: "Sony, the company behind Blu-ray, has a responsibility here as well because its participation prolonged the format war, leading to more people buying HD DVD players."

This is what makes the editorial laughable and causes the source’s credibility to be questioned in my mind. "Sony’s participation prolonged the format war"? Is that a joke? That statement is at least as absurd as the worst die hard fanboy sour grapes posts I have read here. And, BTW, I would say exactly the same thing had it turned out differently and someone had written the same words with Toshiba inserted where Sony is.

What does that even mean? What is the alternative of “participation” – that Sony says, “oh, we spent billions and believe we have a superior product and a marketplace for it, but since someone else has a similar product coming out at the same time we’ll just pack up shop right now before the marketplace has even decided because we feel personally responsible for anyone who might buy the competing product should ours succeed and there’s does not”? [I am not saying BD is superior, only that it is logical that would have been Sony’s POV.] I am still just blown away that anyone could make such a dumb remark, honestly. Calling either Sony or Toshiba’s actions “participation” is just crazy. They each had a product they were trying to launch into the marketplace, end of story. I don’t think either side said “I want to participate in a format war” which is what this statement implies. They both would have been happy as clams to have no format war.

I guess the Allies could have just let Germany take over Europe and let Japan invade the U.S. and Asia during WWII. Because by electing to “participate,” the Allies actions “prolonged” the War so, by the logic of Swanni, they are responsible for all the damage and loss of life as a result. That said, the Allies elected to help rebuild Europe and Japan after the war, because that made strategic sense. I think Sony has the same smart option, but not any obligation.

I had a number of people (with absolutely no knowledge of HDM) tell me last year they were told it was a done deal and BD will win. So maybe Sony did prolong the war.

Remember this is America. If I wake up late for work someone else is responsible.

I think Toshiba should be responsible for punitive damages and we should also be compensated for mental anguish. :rolleyes:

Also looking for compensation on my 8-track's, cassette's, Beta tape's, MD's, DAT's, CED's LD's, and Elcaste's


:D :D :D

Ummm....maybe to utilize the player's sd upconversion capabilities.

OK, but upconvert onto what TV? If you don't already have an HDTV, why would you have purchased an HD-DVD player? Upconversion is only going to show a difference on an HDTV, not SD.

Why should Sony have to offer HD DVD supporters an olive branch? Those folks (me included) are hooked on HD. We're going to Blu whether Sony helps us or not.

Cary

I feel no need for compensation. I have more HD DVD titles than regular DVD, I think (mainly because I didn't like the limitations DVD presented on my old 4:3 CRT TV all those years, so I held off).

I have a nice library of films and a couple of solid players, and they should last me many years of viewing pleasure. And if a player dies and I want to replace it, I'll find a used one somewhere.

No-one owes me anything, but if they want to cut me a cheque/check anyway, go for it. :D

shinksma

I am a HD DVD owner and feel I should not have to be compensated for picking the losing format. However, since I do feel Toshiba did deceive people over the last 2 or 3 months because I believe they made the decision to quit this a long time ago, I do reserve the right to never purchase one of their products again and would encourage anyone who feels the same way to excercise that option as well because in the end the consumer does have the final choice on where they want to spend their money and that is something no one can take away..

it's not about bailing out or reimbursing hd dvd owners. we all knew or should have known of the risks of choosing one format over another in a format battle.

tosh or sony don't owe me anything. i made my decision and accept responsibility for owning a beta hdm player. so life goes on, but at least i will have thoroughly enjoyed hd movie viewing for 18 months before the format is dead and buried.

so i don't expect sony to do anything for me because of my consumer choice. but i do think it is in sony's own best interest to provide an incentive to hd dvd owners to go blu now to build support and momentum for the format at this critical juncture. by offering a discounted ps3 to hd owners they bring the early adopters aboard, enthusiasts who will spend money on games and br movies. otherwise the vast majority of us will wait for $200 2.0 players and buy them in a year or two, if the format still seems viable at that point in time. if br has low adoption rates this year, the format may be in trouble.

so sony don't do it for me, do it to expand the br support base

[trying to get back on to a decent discussion]

If Toshiba knew Warner was going to leave (which we now know they DID) and had a good idea they were about to lose the so-called-war, I would think all those people that saw ads for HD DVD players and picked one up for the holiday have a very reasonable gripe. Secondly, how is picking up a HD DVD player 18-24 months in "an early adopter"???

I bought in to HD DVD in 2006, so I am not complaining. But I do believe the general public that bought in at the holidays of 2007 has a damn good right to be pissed...and litigious.

[trying to get back on to a decent discussion]

If Toshiba knew Warner was going to leave (which we now know they DID) and had a good idea they were about to lose the so-called-war, I would think all those people that saw ads for HD DVD players and picked one up for the holiday have a very reasonable gripe. Secondly, how is picking up a HD DVD player 18-24 months in "an early adopter"???

I bought in to HD DVD in 2006, so I am not complaining. But I do believe the general public that bought in at the holidays of 2007 has a damn good right to be pissed...and litigious.

I'm almost 100% sure that at least Toshiba Indonesia knows about HD DVD demise back in Dec '07 because they suspiciously cancelled my HD DVD seminars (all six of them, covered by 7 magazines including Stuff UK, all sessions booked solid)

I wish I can get rebates when the "Tickle Me Elmo" turned out to be a stupid red furry bundle that wasn't as much fun as I thought. And the "My Little Pony" that my daughters stopped playing with 6 months after, that should be refundable in walmart.

Toys are consumables. That's the reality here. (Shiny Disks though, well.... they're precious and last forever).

aww come on! enough with that BS! BD is not better, just higher in capacity. However, just like Beta vs. VHS, the format with higher capacity wins.

As far as physical disk specifications go that is what counts! Everything else about HD-DVD is replicable on BD!! Somehow HD-DVD owners keep holding on to the belief that their lower capacity disks that scratch easily were better -- they weren't. Their only purpose was supposed lower replication costs, which were not passed on to the consumer (in fact software was generally priced lower on the BD side), and a continuing stream of royalties for Toshiba, which will dry up if BD eventually replaces DVD.

Also, this is not similar to Beta and VHS in the respect that its higher capacity - its not only that it impacts length of the title -- its nice to have headroom for 200GB disks someday capable of storing 4K movies with VC-3 - BD Profile 6.0? Well, we can dream :)

Just because you helped subsidize Toshiba's big gamble doesn't mean you have to fight for it after the end. Toshiba's royalty extension is dead.. get over it.

As far as physical disk specifications go that is what counts! Everything else about HD-DVD is replicable on BD!! Somehow HD-DVD owners keep holding on to the belief that their lower capacity disks that scratch easily were better -- they weren't. Their only purpose was supposed lower replication costs, which were not passed on to the consumer (in fact software was generally priced lower on the BD side), and a continuing stream of royalties for Toshiba, which will dry up if BD eventually replaces DVD.

Also, this is not similar to Beta and VHS in the respect that its higher capacity - its not only that it impacts length of the title -- its nice to have headroom for 200GB disks someday capable of storing 4K movies with VC-3 - BD Profile 6.0? Well, we can dream :)

Just because you helped subsidize Toshiba's big gamble doesn't mean you have to fight for it after the end. Toshiba's royalty extension is dead.. get over it.


1. HD DVD player have always been at the most half of BD player with the capability BETTER than the most expensive BD player
2. BD profiles were not finalized when they were released 2 years ago. I've been enjoying what BD may be able to do in the fall of 2008 on HD DVD from the first day they were released.
3. BD have always been about the dream.. "just wait until" is the motto of BD.

stick with the facts and if you even bothered knowing me, I've been a dual format supporter from the first day both BD and HD DVD were released in Canada and I actually have more movies on BD than HD DVD. :rolleyes:

I think if anyone owes anything to the HD-DVD early adopters its Toshiba. They could've prevented this format war from the beginning by not letting their greed get the best of them and push an inferior physical disk for DVD royalties. If they had thought about the best interest of the consumer they would have compromised with the other Japanese manufacturers and gone on to produce good bluray players that wouldn't be paperweights now. THEY should be offering trade-ins for any model that cost more than $200. The fire sale models can be excluded, as most owners probably bought them to be upconverters anyway.

greed? it's called business :rolleyes:

Since my A2 still plays perfectly, and none of my 100 or so HD DVD's have melted, I think I'll be just fine and enjoying HD DVD for years to come. Hopefully, we'll find players for extra cheap one day soon, I'd like to keep one on hand as a back-up. I also invested in a Sharp BR player, and can continue on enjoying new releases in HD glory. There's just no going back to SD DVD. Now THAT would be depressing!

I am one of those who bought a HD-DVD player, though I only spent $98 at Walmart, and I did so because I knew it was a first class SD DVD player - the HD-DVD was just a bonus. It is now, in fact, my primary DVD player, saving wear and tear on my modded Panasonic RP-56. I don't expect anyone to bail me out, and especially not Sony. Now if Panasonic or Harman Kardon was to offer me a nice deal on one of their best BR players I can't say I wouldn't jump on it. But we all know that ain't gonna happen, so no sweat!