I see UMD titles mixed in with the HD titles at DVD Pacific. What is UMD.
Is this that third HD format.
Are players avail yet. Ive done a serch and cannot find any players other then hand held gamers.

Thx.

UMD movies will only play on the Sony PSP handheld. They are not high def.

I see UMD titles mixed in with the HD titles at DVD Pacific. What is UMD.
Is this that third HD format.
Are players avail yet. Ive done a serch and cannot find any players other then hand held gamers.

Thx.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Media_Disc

-Bill

Another failed format...

Unexploded Movie Disc :)

Another failed format...

said by only those who have never used it. It is a great portable format. it's biggest drawback is the lack a write ability.

Is this that third HD format.That would be VMD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versatile_Multilayer_Disc).

What studios still release on UMD?

I never "got" UMD. Just didn't make sense to me. a Portable DVD Player and DVDs are cheaper (and better quality) than a PSP and UMDs.

To each his own, I suppose...

said by only those who have never used it. It is a great portable format. it's biggest drawback is the lack a write ability.

I own a PSP and I can safely say failed. They are just too expensive. Now ripped movies from DVD to memory stick to view on a PSP... that's where I agree with you that the PSP is a great protable format. Same quality as the UMD but without having to carry those discs around... not to mention it's ALOT cheaper to buy memory sticks than to buy UMD movies that you already own in DVD.

It's funny that people say it "failed" when it sold more movie discs in 2007 than it did in 2006.

And, considering that the PSP sells more units than the 360, and the games are released on UMDs, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

There are more UMDs in the wild than there ever will be HD-DVDs...

It's funny that people say it "failed" when it sold more movie discs in 2007 than it did in 2006.

And, considering that the PSP sells more units than the 360, and the games are released on UMDs, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

There are more UMDs in the wild than there ever will be HD-DVDs...

I'll clarify what I meant...

UMD as a movie format = failed.

UMD as a game format = great.

That would be VMD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versatile_Multilayer_Disc).


Ahh VMD thanks.

Is that out yet??

Ahh VMD thanks.

Is that out yet??

It is. It even features quite some good titles. Mainly some Disney,Warner and Kinowelt titles. "The Golden Compass" and "The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellwship Of The Ring" are also planned to come out in the near future.

I'll clarify what I meant...

UMD as a movie format = failed.

UMD as a game format = great.

I remember reading in the last week, or two, that movie sales account for more than half of all UMDs sold. So, what was true 1 1/2 years ago isn't the case in 2008.

I'll try and find the article that I read to post here.

Another failed format...

..which still has players being produced and selling extremely well, in addition to more titles and total disk sellthrough numbers that makes certain other formats weep in envy.

Yes, I'm quite sure Sony isn't losing a wink of sleep over this "failed" format.

It is. It even features quite some good titles. Mainly some Disney,Warner and Kinowelt titles. "The Golden Compass" and "The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellwship Of The Ring" are also planned to come out in the near future.

Ive done some searching with no luck. Where do you order titles??

I did find one player new on Amazon for $200 something.

Thx.

On the evolutionary tree of video formats, I would describe it as the transitional stage (though, not originally intended to be) between current day dvd and future day movie on a "chip".

It's on a small (even more "portable") optical disc and utilizes mpeg-4 tier compression for optimally compact file size. Naturally, pq and sq take a 2nd priority to the focus on file size, but it remains "good enough" to meet the sensibilities of the masses who are seeking video-on-the-go.

Ive done some searching with no luck. Where do you order titles??

I did find one player new on Amazon for $200 something.

Thx.

I know Fry's has had an entire rack of the stuff for some time. If you want to go the online route, the analogous place would be Outpost.com:

http://shop1.outpost.com/search?search_type=regular&sqxts=1&query_string=umd&cat=&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

Ive done some searching with no luck. Where do you order titles??

I did find one player new on Amazon for $200 something.

Thx.

Here you are:

http://www.nmeinc.com/

Store page: http://www.nmestore.com/

Univeral Movie Disc , I think....

Anyway it was/is a format made for the PSP. Kinda intersting. I own the first blood UMD for collectors sake as First blood has been on just about every format. I don't have a PSP at the momment I'm consdering one.
But the high cost of UMDs and only one player has more or less killed the format.


I feel if a standalone player or combo player were made it may sell better. Prehapps a $50 player aimed at kids.
The PSP can play movies of memory card so one could take their prexiting DVD collection and convert it to MPEG4 then playback on the PSP and download movies.

The ability to burn the media could have been a great idea. But I susppect they never did this as it would open the door for Game copys and such

Here you are:

http://www.nmeinc.com/

Store page: http://www.nmestore.com/

Thank you for the link. I was really excited when I saw the list of movies. A ton of them. Then I registered to place an order and that list is gone and there are only about 10 movies total if that to choose from. Most of them are B movies I never heard of. Am I missing something???
It looked very promising at first..I was ready to buy a player and a ton of titles.
Maybe I am not navigating properly.
If you are new visiting the site there are about 20 pages packed with great titles.
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/screenshot_0117.jpg

To order you must log in and the list is down to 5 pages with crap titles totaling about 10 movies spread between 5 pages:(
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/500/screenshot_026.jpg

I own a PSP and I can safely say failed. They are just too expensive. Now ripped movies from DVD to memory stick to view on a PSP... that's where I agree with you that the PSP is a great protable format. Same quality as the UMD but without having to carry those discs around... not to mention it's ALOT cheaper to buy memory sticks than to buy UMD movies that you already own in DVD.
14.99$ for the complete aeon flux 2 disc set? overpriced?
10$ for the fifth element.? yes new movies are pricey but so are new DVDs and blu rays

Seems like American customers are very limited on that.

Wait a second. I'll try it and let you know if European users have the same drawbacks.

Thank you for the link. I was really excited when I saw the list of movies. A ton of them. Then I registered to place an order and that list is gone and there are only about 10 movies total if that to choose from. Most of them are B movies I never heard of. Am I missing something???
It looked very promising at first..I was ready to buy a player and a ton of titles.
Maybe I am not navigating properly.


That's because most Hollywood studios have not released on VMD and are unlikely to.VMD was stillborn because Blu Ray is now the only HDM that the major studios support.It's possible that VMD will be successful in Asia but time will tell.

Clicking on most of the categories to the left several come up blank.
Everything looked really good until I signed on. What a shame.

The marketing and pricing look promising if they can get the ball rolling. I would buy into it.

Update: Same problem here.

Seems like only UK residents can get nearly all of them.

I'm limited at 4 Bollywood movies by the way.

That's because most Hollywood studios have not released on VMD and are unlikely to.VMD was stillborn because Blu Ray is now the only HDM that the major studios support.It's possible that VMD will be successful in Asia but time will tell.

Not true. The movies Alan saw exist but not for us. Seems like you can only get the movies from the country they're licenced in.

This topic title needs a change.

Another failed format...
It's not a failed format like HD DVD, it's more of a niche format.

Are UMDs even in OAR? What's the resolution, codec, bitrate, etc?

Are UMDs even in OAR? What's the resolution, codec, bitrate, etc?

I don't think they're in OAR. OAR is simply useless on a 16:9 screen that small.

I also think I read about it somewhere. A Hifi-Magazine wrote something about the use of Pan&Scan on most UMD movies.

I don't think they're in OAR. OAR is simply useless on a 16:9 screen that small.

I also think I read about it somewhere. A Hifi-Magazine wrote something about the use of Pan&Scan on most UMD movies.

It is perfect for watching converted HD shows, which is what I use mine for.

But I can't see purchasing a movie for it, maybe a rental but even that is stretching it.

HD VMD is still in the ground stages here in the U.S.

You can order a HD VMD player through PC Rush

http://www.pcrush.com/prodspec.asp?itemno=128462&bsrc=atomz

The player comes with two movies.

Cutting Room
http://nmestore.com/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=115

Mother Ghost
http://nmestore.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_7&products_id=65

As Alan has found out, the selection is limited for U.S. buyers now, they are working on that now.

Are UMDs even in OAR? What's the resolution, codec, bitrate, etc?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Media_Disc

Here ya go.

I own a few of UMDs that I picked up cheap when Media Play was going out of business, but if I want movies on my PSP, I just rip them to one of my memory cards.

They look really nice on the PSP screen.

HD VMD is still in the ground stages here in the U.S.

You can order a HD VMD player through PC Rush

http://www.pcrush.com/prodspec.asp?itemno=128462&bsrc=atomz

The player comes with two movies.

Cutting Room
http://nmestore.com/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=115

Mother Ghost
http://nmestore.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_7&products_id=65

As Alan has found out, the selection is limited for U.S. buyers now, they are working on that now.

Not only for U.S buyers. The closer it get's to Central-Europe the lesser the titles are, as it seems.

$9.99 each UMD.

My big problem with watching stuff on the PSP is that it's LCD has some of the worst ghosting I've seen on a modern device. With games I find it tolerable generally, but any fine detail that moves in a movie is just a blurry mess.

Xylon, can you do a PQ comparison of a UMD vs HD? :D

BTW: Anyone tried UMD on a big screen? Since some companies do sell PSP component cables this should be possible.

Like MiniDisc, UMD also seems to have found a market in Japan where people spend an inordinate amount of time on trains and other public transportation. UMD movies can be easily found in most video and electronic shops, and catalog titles go for around $9 U.S. (and that's at the currently awful exchange rate). I personally prefer to rip movies to Memory stick, but a lot of older PSP users (yes, they are common here) either lack the ability, desire or equipment to do this. For them, buying movies on UMD makes sense. Watching videos on the PSP is so commonplace here that we even have a 1-seg TV tuner for the PSP that goes for around $50.

New red PSP coming with Superbad on UMD.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/02/26/destination-playstation-news-mgs-ps3-bundle-kratos-psp-and-dualshock3-release-date-by/

Some people are talking about umd, and other people are talking about vmd. Can you clarify which one you are interested to discuss, Alan?

Another failed format...Another locked-down Sony format......;)

UMD's must be region locked right?

To you people mocking that UMD sells more than HD DVD and is still selling, well UMD movies sold probably about 10 times more than BLU-RAY in its first year! (How do you like them apples? ;) ) Yet only Sony fanboys don't think that UMD isn't dead. :rolleyes: IT IS DEAD, get over it, ha! :D As far as I know only Sony still release movies for it, all the other studios pulled out ages ago. You see, unlike Toshiba, Sony actually bought movie studios to try to win a format war not only once (Columbia Pictures and Tri-Star during the Betamax days) but twice! (MGM right before Blu-Ray was launched.) Sony just didn't give in so easily like Toshiba so they continued to release their movies on their dead formats even though nobody else was.

Some people are talking about umd, and other people are talking about vmd. Can you clarify which one you are interested to discuss, Alan?

Alan's interested in VMD. He had it confused with UMD at first.

I'll clarify what I meant...

UMD as a movie format = failed.

UMD as a game format = great.

I prefer to run both off my MS Pro Duo. Gotta love 3.90 M33-2. ;)

To you people mocking that UMD sells more than HD DVD and is still selling, well UMD movies sold probably about 10 times more than BLU-RAY in its first year! (How do you like them apples? ;) ) Yet only Sony fanboys don't think that UMD isn't dead. :rolleyes: IT IS DEAD, get over it, ha! :D As far as I know only Sony still release movies for it, all the other studios pulled out ages ago. You see, unlike Toshiba, Sony actually bought movie studios to try to win a format war not only once (Columbia Pictures and Tri-Star during the Betamax days) but twice! (MGM right before Blu-Ray was launched.) Sony just didn't give in so easily like Toshiba so they continued to release their movies on their dead formats even though nobody else was.

Man, those grapes sure are sour. Seems you might be the one who needs to "get over it".

I never "got" UMD. Just didn't make sense to me. a Portable DVD Player and DVDs are cheaper (and better quality) than a PSP and UMDs.
Actually, IIRC movies on UMD are stored at DVD resolutions but encoded using AVC (rather than MPEG-2 as on DVD). I've never done a side by side comparison, but the quality on a UMD could conceivably be better than the DVD. And with the newer model PSP having TV output capabilities, it might look nicer upscaled.

As far as resolution and codec go (since I saw it asked):

It's 720x480 (progressive) and H.264 encoded. It's actually better than DVD... the only reason to think otherwise is because the only player limits it to a small screen (which is actually lower resolution than movies are encoded at).

Are UMDs even in OAR? What's the resolution, codec, bitrate, etc?

These are good questions. Some UMDs are OAR others aren't, especially not 2.35:1 format films.

Some UMD even have DVD extras, The Descent UMD springs to mind.

The codec is MP4.

Resolution is same as NTSC DVD, 480p.

Disc size is 1.8gb

The PSP now has a Component out option so you can watch the discs on your TV.

When priced right UMDs are a good option. But most of the time I just use DVD rips encoded in MP4.

The format is quite strong in the UK and as a good presence wherever you find DVDs for sale.

As far as I know only Sony still release movies for it, all the other studios pulled out ages ago.

I don't know about the rest of the world, where I live you can still get UMDs from Fox and Warner Brothers as well as Sony Pictures. And we're not talking about just old catalog titles either. Invasion, The Brave One, AVP2, 300, Resident Evil: Apocalypse, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix are all available on UMD. I Am Legend and Beowulf are also scheduled for release next month as well. Not surprisingly, there's also quite a bit of Anime available as well, which seems well suited to the PSP demographic.

I don't know about the rest of the world, where I live you can still get UMDs from Fox and Warner Brothers as well as Sony Pictures. And we're not talking about just old catalog titles either. Invasion, The Brave One, AVP2, 300, Resident Evil: Apocalypse, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix are all available on UMD. I Am Legend and Beowulf are also scheduled for release next month as well. Not surprisingly, there's also quite a bit of Anime available as well, which seems well suited to the PSP demographic.

I'm in the UK and I looked it up and out of your list only Resident Evil Apocalypse is available on UMD here. (And the Harry Potter movies up to Goblet Of Fire, not Order Of The Phoenix.) But the Resident Evil movies are from Sony and like I said Sony will keep releasing movies on it long after the industry pronounced it dead, like it did with Betamax. I did find out that there's a PSP game based on 300 though, lol!

Well, despite the UMD Movie format being on life suport. Their are still players being made. With HD-DVD they just said screw this and quit.

Each new PSP is a chance to sell movies. The UMD format at this point just doesn't have the B&M exposire. Very few stores have them.

My local wal*mart had the UMD movie format for 3 months is a 4ft section at the end of NR DVDs.
Now only 1 of the larger of the 3 bestbuys has a section which is only their beacase they have an extra 20ft movie section for what ever

Actually, IIRC movies on UMD are stored at DVD resolutions but encoded using AVC (rather than MPEG-2 as on DVD). I've never done a side by side comparison, but the quality on a UMD could conceivably be better than the DVD. And with the newer model PSP having TV output capabilities, it might look nicer upscaled.

It is not!
UMD only has 1.8GB of space and it only stores stereo audio; so how can it be better than DVD?
It's true that AVC is more efficient than MPEG2, but 1.8GB doesn't leave much space for AVC to show itself (compare to 7.9GB space available on DVD).

Right now only Sony releases movies on UMD; so calling a format successful when only one studio releases movie on it is beyond me!

Now UMD was a neat idea. If they priced the movies lower (sometimes they cost as much as DVDs and only with new PSPs you can watch them on TV) the format had a chance to become a success. But lack of writable media, high pricing and not many decent releases led to the downfall.
However kudos should go to Sony for supporting their formats. Even when their formats fail in a market (SACD is a niche, Minidisc never caught on in US and UMD tanked), they continue to support it. Unlike Toshiba where they completely stopped making players.

It is not!
UMD only has 1.8GB of space and it only stores stereo audio; so how can it be better than DVD?
It's true that AVC is more efficient than MPEG2, but 1.8GB doesn't leave much space for AVC to show itself (compare to 7.9GB space available on DVD).

Right now only Sony releases movies on UMD; so calling a format successful when only one studio releases movie on it is beyond me!

Now UMD was a neat idea. If they priced the movies lower (sometimes they cost as much as DVDs and only with new PSPs you can watch them on TV) the format had a chance to become a success. But lack of writable media, high pricing and not many decent releases led to the downfall.
However kudos should go to Sony for supporting their formats. Even when their formats fail in a market (SACD is a niche, Minidisc never caught on in US and UMD tanked), they continue to support it. Unlike Toshiba where they completely stopped making players.

I have seen the 300 and harry potter order of the phoenix on umd so at least warner bros also uses the format. and those are new releases from last year, so not quite dead. these titles are available at bestbuy in the PSP section right after the games. also available are all the MTV TV series also not SONY this includes Jackass, Beavis and butthead, Aeon flux. Please research your post before posting.

I mean serious, do people actually buy UMD movies? Every time I go to Fry's I see the racks full of movies, nobody even bothers looking at them even at $9.99. It's easier to just rip the movies onto a 4GB stick. P.S. I have a few titles on the UMD format for those who assume I have never used it.

Sure its still in production, but that's because Sony actually thinks its doing well. On the other hand if the movies were $4.99, then were in business!

I have seen the 300 and harry potter order of the phoenix on umd so at least warner bros also uses the format. and those are new releases from last year, so not quite dead. these titles are available at bestbuy in the PSP section right after the games. also available are all the MTV TV series also not SONY this includes Jackass, Beavis and butthead, Aeon flux. Please research your post before posting.

I've been to many Futureshop and Best buy stores around and none carry UMD.
I don't know what's with the obsession to show UMD as a trimuph; the format was unsuccessful and nobody other than Sony is supporting.
HD DVD's disadvantages were mentioned as only one hardware support and less content producer. They exactly apply to UMD as well. How come now UMD is a successful format?
Seriously, just because Blu-ray has the name Sony on it we shouldn't worship all their formats as being successful.
As for those that say hardware is still coming out; well what other option does Sony have? if they discontinue UMD, what format will they release their PSP games on? cartridge?
I stand corrected for Warner. Now we have two studios supporting it. Does that make it successful? HD DVD has 3 studios supporting it and you guys complained all the time that more content producer is important. How come it doesn't apply here?
I'm not bringing HD DVD vs. Blu-ray discussion here; but seriously do you think we are that stupid to think UMD is a success as a movie format?

Evidently, the installed base of psp's and net sales seem to keep it a viable format to support. This is in stark contrast to the sub-1 mil userbase there was for hdvd (since you want to keep bringing up comparisons between the 2).

Seems like you are going out of your way to trash it, even though it effectively has zero impact on you. Other people have found use in the format. Just let it be, already.

Evidently, the installed base of psp's and net sales seem to keep it a viable format to support. This is in stark contrast to the sub-1 mil userbase there was for hdvd (since you want to keep bringing up comparisons between the 2).

Seems like you are going out of your way to trash it, even though it effectively has zero impact on you. Other people have found use in the format. Just let it be, already.

How can you say that? The installed user base does nothing to the sales ratio of UMD movies. Most people just rip their DVD movies on a memory stick.

Evidently, the installed base of psp's and net sales seem to keep it a viable format to support. This is in stark contrast to the sub-1 mil userbase there was for hdvd (since you want to keep bringing up comparisons between the 2).

Seems like you are going out of your way to trash it, even though it effectively has zero impact on you. Other people have found use in the format. Just let it be, already.

The reason I brought HD DVD up is because it was first the first thing some people brought up into the discussion and yet they try to paint UMD as a success and a marvel which is not true.
You can't trash one format with the reasons above and yet change your opinion when it comes to another format.
There is a new trend where anything that is slightly negative against Sony is considered some how pro HD DVD. So somebody must call all Sony related formats successful to not be classified pro HD DVD.
I'm not trashing it. Walmart and Target have dropped the format. it's a fact. Majority of studios have dropped the format. It's a fact. How is it trashing?
Aren't you guys obsessed with the facts (coming from weekly nielsen days)?
Well the fact is UMD is not a success no matter how hard you try to make it look like one by saying things like it looks as good as DVD and such.

As for me not discussing it, it's a public forum where people with different opinions discuss related matters. Others say UMD is a success, and I'm presenting with my point of view. Expecting everyone not say anything against UMD because it would classify them as pro HD DVD is absurd and stupid.

Somebody said up there that UMD looks as good as DVD. I didn't see you question him for posting false information!

PSP has sold more than 10M units in US and sales are abysmal considering the installed base. Yet you call it a success?

Whether UMD "failed" is relative to your expectations. Sony never put any real effort into making it anything more than a PSP disc (it never had blank media, never had recorders, and no standalone players).

For what it was, it's remarkable how much UMD sold (and I'm sure it has more than turned a profit since it was launched). It's a "success" relative to those expectations, but if you want to compare it to DVD (why?), then I guess you can call it a failure if you really want to.

Sony fans really show how hypocritical they are when the shoe's on the other foot don't they?

Somebody said up there that UMD looks as good as DVD. I didn't see you question him for posting false information!

It just seems like an awfully strong vitriol in your posts and others on the subject of umd or Sony. It suggests a deeper conflict than merely your personal disapproval of umd as a relevant format. Is any one here really chanting umd as an unqualified success? All I see is that people are saying it is still being sold to this day, and there must be some degree of viability involved in it.

Personally, I have never seen umd on a regular-size tv. So how could I question if it is false information or not? Am I somehow obliged to rail against it for some reason? I can certainly appreciate the irony that your position on umd vs. dvd has when placed in the context of how people reacted to mpeg2 vs. mpeg4/vc-1/avc in the hdm arena. People were absolutely convinced that mpeg2 simply could not look good or even superior compared to advanced codecs under any condition whatsoever. They would judge the merit of titles purely on what codec was printed on the case, rather than more complex issues of how well the technology was implemented, nature of the material, and quality of the master. It was all about, mpeg2 is ancient and obsolete, vc-1 conquers all, and anything "strange" you see in that vc-1 encode came obviously from the master. Remember those days?

So don't stand there with that kind of history behind you (and this forum, collectively), and point a finger at me for hypocracy.

It just seems like an awfully strong vitriol in your posts and others on the subject of umd or Sony. It suggests a deeper conflict than merely your personal disapproval of umd as a relevant format
No it is not. Conflict is merely yours. You obviously see anything critical of Sony somehow related to format war and personal grudge. I can't help you with that. People like you have a hard time realizing the format war is over and to them everything still polarizes to BD vs. HD DVD. And this attitude is very evident in some people's posts (including you). I'm simply against worshiping corporations and formats.

Personally, I have never seen umd on a regular-size tv. So how could I question if it is false information or not? Am I somehow obliged to rail against it for some reason? I can certainly appreciate the irony that your position on umd vs. dvd has when placed in the context of how people reacted to mpeg2 vs. mpeg4/vc-1/avc in the hdm arena. People were absolutely convinced that mpeg2 simply could not look good or even superior compared to advanced codecs under any condition whatsoever. They would judge the merit of titles purely on what codec was printed on the case, rather than more complex issues of how well the technology was implemented, nature of the material, and quality of the master. It was all about, mpeg2 is ancient and obsolete, vc-1 conquers all, and anything "strange" you see in that vc-1 encode came obviously from the master. Remember those days?

It's very easy to judge. UMD only has 1.8 GB of space. It lacks multi channel audio and it contain no extras. So how can it be better? Many of the movies are not in their OAR. Are you still undecided that DVD is better than UMD?
AVC alone doesn't make UMD a better choice even when it has a same bandwidth as DVD (11mbps).

So don't stand there with that kind of history behind you (and this forum, collectively), and point a finger at me for hypocracy.
History behind you; lol. Did I work for Nazi camp or something? You seem to have a strong emotional bond to plastic disc....
And I'm not pointing finger at you. I don't care about you to point fingers. I'm simply pointing out how people use reasoning to their benefit. For one situation, it becomes a deal breaker. In another one, it becomes a sign of success.

Anyways this discussion is not going anywhere. Maybe you should stop your quest for finding another "war" to pass your time.

/end

You're projecting, again. Just don't reply to my posts. Then you can avoid these sorts of exchanges.

as HDM replaces DVD, UMD and other mobile formats may gain more traction.

blu-ray will not be used as a mobile storage format, its just a waste of space when you have small screens. i can see a smaller version of DVD being used for mobile, be it UMD or even flash.

Whether UMD "failed" is relative to your expectations. Sony never put any real effort into making it anything more than a PSP disc (it never had blank media, never had recorders, and no standalone players).

For what it was, it's remarkable how much UMD sold (and I'm sure it has more than turned a profit since it was launched). It's a "success" relative to those expectations, but if you want to compare it to DVD (why?), then I guess you can call it a failure if you really want to.

I completely agree. Sure, it hasn't sold millions and millions of titles, and has lost some support. But some people here act as if it was created to suplant DVD or something, which is completely not true. If it wasn't still a viable portable movie format for the PSP then they would no longer support it as such, its that simple. Some in here have absolutely no business sense whatsoever.

It may not be a complete huge success as Sony may have wanted, but it is not a failure by any means, and sure as hell is not dead like some here somehow believe.

Sony fans really show how hypocritical they are when the shoe's on the other foot don't they?

Sony haters really show how childish they are every time anything Sony is discussed don't they? Seriously, grow up.

Before I had a PSP I thought the UMD format (for movies) was pretty pointless and way over priced. But once I did get a PSP I decided to pick up a couple movies on black friday. Got a dozen for $3.99 each. I was surprised at the quality. Makes for a good travel companion and at that price it is easily justified and easier to carry around vs a portable dvd player and DVD's. But I won't purchase any more movies unless they are in that sub $5 range. I'm really excited about the PSP rips from BD's that Sony has been talking about. I'll gladly purchase more memory sticks and just rip them.

What i think happened to UMD:

As a gameformat...good job sony..As a movie format...well save your money...

Now I'm not going to say it failed but im not going to say it was a success...I have never seen many titles on shelves ever, I know people that do own a PSP do buy these movies or parents buy them for their kids to shut them up during car rides...UMD is a format for the Sony generation, the kids that grew up with the Playstation and PS2, as for someone like me that grew up with nintendo, i dont own a PSP, and many many others i know that grew up with nintendo too dont have an interest in a PSP...So its a Playstation generation thing and caught on with only that generation....

I thought it was a good idea, they were heading the right direction but then i still believe they ended up over prices..they ended up costing more when they 1st came out then SD dvds ......

Opinions will vary on this topic as you can tell....So, UMD ended up as a ok format that wasnt targeted towards everyone...and it was POORLY marketed....Yes, Sony FAILED at marketing their UMD movies, even though i know sony didnt release every movie, just marketing the format was a failure.

Another failed format...

May be failed format outside Japan but within Japan it's quite famous and still selling and priced hot.

UMD is the harbinger of doom for the pre-cursor that is the failed format that is HD-DVD...you were warned...the coming of the great and almighty SONY Blu-Ray format is the reckoning of the end of early adopting peasants...WELCOME YOUR BLU-RAY OVERLORDS !!!...kneel before me and cast away the false religion you call VOD...HERETICS ALL OF YOU...DAMN YOU TO HELL....

Hmmm, that's an interesting detail...what is the construction of umd, anyway? Is it basically a mini-dvd with the same thicknesses and sandwich-style construction?

UMD is the harbinger of doom for the pre-cursor that is the failed format that is HD-DVD...you were warned...the coming of the great and almighty SONY Blu-Ray format is the reckoning of the end of early adopting peasants...WELCOME YOUR BLU-RAY OVERLORDS !!!...kneel before me and cast away the false religion you call VOD...HERETICS ALL OF YOU...DAMN YOU TO HELL....

YOU CAN NOT PASS, EVIL SERVEANT* OF THE DARK LORD*²!!!!

You may fall into the shadows from once you came and never be seen again by any human sight. And now you shall suffer me!!! Suffer the light of Amun Dil that is brighter than any light of the stars.

And after you fall The Fellowship Of The Ring (Everything HD) shall be regained and so the people of Middle-Earth shall live in peace till the end of time.


*UMD

*Sony

What i think happened to UMD:

As a gameformat...good job sony..As a movie format...well save your money...

Now I'm not going to say it failed but im not going to say it was a success...I have never seen many titles on shelves ever, I know people that do own a PSP do buy these movies or parents buy them for their kids to shut them up during car rides...UMD is a format for the Sony generation, the kids that grew up with the Playstation and PS2, as for someone like me that grew up with nintendo, i dont own a PSP, and many many others i know that grew up with nintendo too dont have an interest in a PSP...So its a Playstation generation thing and caught on with only that generation....

I thought it was a good idea, they were heading the right direction but then i still believe they ended up over prices..they ended up costing more when they 1st came out then SD dvds ......

Opinions will vary on this topic as you can tell....So, UMD ended up as a ok format that wasnt targeted towards everyone...and it was POORLY marketed....Yes, Sony FAILED at marketing their UMD movies, even though i know sony didnt release every movie, just marketing the format was a failure.

I grew up on Nintendo as well. I have owned every Nintendo system ever released, including a DS. I also own a PSP, as well as all three Playstation systems. I will have to respectfully disagree that the PSP was only for the "Playstation generation".

I do however agree with your marketing point. Seems Sony learned a lot from UMD.

I've been to many Futureshop and Best buy stores around and none carry UMD.
I don't know what's with the obsession to show UMD as a trimuph; the format was unsuccessful and nobody other than Sony is supporting.
HD DVD's disadvantages were mentioned as only one hardware support and less content producer. They exactly apply to UMD as well. How come now UMD is a successful format?
Seriously, just because Blu-ray has the name Sony on it we shouldn't worship all their formats as being successful.
As for those that say hardware is still coming out; well what other option does Sony have? if they discontinue UMD, what format will they release their PSP games on? cartridge?
I stand corrected for Warner. Now we have two studios supporting it. Does that make it successful? HD DVD has 3 studios supporting it and you guys complained all the time that more content producer is important. How come it doesn't apply here?
I'm not bringing HD DVD vs. Blu-ray discussion here; but seriously do you think we are that stupid to think UMD is a success as a movie format?

here are a couple of links for your perusal.

http://www.deepdiscount.com/UMD-Movies-for-PSP_stcVVcatId463302VVviewcat.htm

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/movie/category2/9408/a/UMD+Video.htm

All the majors actually produce in limited quantities on UMD.

Not a flaming sucess but not going anywhere like the dumpster in a hurry.

Of course based on your slant of looking at things YMMV :D

May be failed format outside Japan but within Japan it's quite famous and still selling and priced hot.

I got a warning for stating a fact. :rolleyes: All I'm saying is that just because something still sells or is even popular in 1 country doesn't mean that's true of everywhere else. How about I use another example: horseracing videogames. They're popular in Japan but as far as I know absolutely nowhere else. (I mean console games, there are a few horseracing arcade machines here and there outside Japan.) Is that example allowed?

I got a warning for stating a fact. :rolleyes: All I'm saying is that just because something still sells or is even popular in 1 country doesn't mean that's true of everywhere else. How about I use another example: horseracing videogames. They're popular in Japan but as far as I know absolutely nowhere else. (I mean console games, there are a few horseracing arcade machines here and there outside Japan.) Is that example allowed?


I think the problem here is more an issue of defining what constitutes a "failed" format. The reason so many people take exception to comments calling UMD a failed format is because in their mind, "failed" means something that had so little interest that there is not enough financial incentive for software, hardware or recordable media manufacturers to continue making it. In other words, it became extinct before a newer evolutionary upgrade could replace it. Elcasette, Digital Cassette tape, CED are all formats that didn't live long enough for them to be "replaced," so I would consider them failed.

On the other hand, UMD movies are still in production for a platform that is quite healthy, even if the PSP isn't selling as well as the Nintendo DS. The fact that it doesn't sell the same amount in all markets only matters if the quantities sold in ALL markets is so small that studios have no financial incentive to continue releasing any content for it. Yes, UMD only seems to be selling in any quantity in Japan (and maybe the U.S.), but that doesn't necessarily mean it has failed. Many people consider MiniDisc a failed format, yet it was successful enough in Japan that several manufacturers (Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, Aiwa, etc.) can justify continued production of players and media. If the format itself wasn't profitable, do you think so many companies would have committed resources for it's continued production? In my mind, being a success only in regional or niche markets makes a product "less successful" than it could have been. That's still a long way off from "failed" in my book.

Your videogame analogy is also flawed because you're talking about a GENRE of game available on a format, not the game format itself. It's like saying that NFL football video games don't sell well outside the U.S. Does that mean that they are a failure? Of course not. There are probably other examples of video games that are tailored to a specific region or culture as well.

The software and CE markets in Japan (and the U.S.) are strong enough that, under the right circumstances, they can support a format on their own. For example, how many Blu-ray/HDD recorders are sold outside Japan? None. Yet it's doing well enough here that no BD manufacturer has deemed it necessary to release a BD player in the local market. The fact that you can't buy one in the UK or US (yet) does not make recordable BD a failed format. Or to paraphrase your own statement, "All I'm saying is that just because something still sells or is even popular in 1 country doesn't mean that it's a failure."

Sony haters really show how childish they are every time anything Sony is discussed don't they? Seriously, grow up.

Sony lovers really show how childish they are every time anythng ANTI Sony is discussesd dont they? Seriouisly,grow up.

I think the problem here is more an issue of defining what constitutes a "failed" format. The reason so many people take exception to comments calling UMD a failed format is because in their mind, "failed" means something that had so little interest that there is not enough financial incentive for software, hardware or recordable media manufacturers to continue making it. In other words, it became extinct before a newer evolutionary upgrade could replace it. Elcasette, Digital Cassette tape, CED are all formats that didn't live long enough for them to be "replaced," so I would consider them failed.

On the other hand, UMD movies are still in production for a platform that is quite healthy, even if the PSP isn't selling as well as the Nintendo DS. The fact that it doesn't sell the same amount in all markets only matters if the quantities sold in ALL markets is so small that studios have no financial incentive to continue releasing any content for it. Yes, UMD only seems to be selling in any quantity in Japan (and maybe the U.S.), but that doesn't necessarily mean it has failed. Many people consider MiniDisc a failed format, yet it was successful enough in Japan that several manufacturers (Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, Aiwa, etc.) can justify continued production of players and media. If the format itself wasn't profitable, do you think so many companies would have committed resources for it's continued production? In my mind, being a success only in regional or niche markets makes a product "less successful" than it could have been. That's still a long way off from "failed" in my book.

Your videogame analogy is also flawed because you're talking about a GENRE of game available on a format, not the game format itself. It's like saying that NFL football video games don't sell well outside the U.S. Does that mean that they are a failure? Of course not. There are probably other examples of video games that are tailored to a specific region or culture as well.

The software and CE markets in Japan (and the U.S.) are strong enough that, under the right circumstances, they can support a format on their own. For example, how many Blu-ray/HDD recorders are sold outside Japan? None. Yet it's doing well enough here that no BD manufacturer has deemed it necessary to release a BD player in the local market. The fact that you can't buy one in the UK or US (yet) does not make recordable BD a failed format. Or to paraphrase your own statement, "All I'm saying is that just because something still sells or is even popular in 1 country doesn't mean that it's a failure."

Actually if you quoted me properly I said that just because something is popular in 1 country doesn't mean it's popular everywhere else, I didn't say horseracing videogames are a failure. I was using an example of something that was just popular in 1 place, that's all. UMD is a failure because not only was it sold and marketed all over the world but Sony claimed it was the next generation portable video format and that it would be incorporated into all kinds of portable devices. So does anything else play UMDs other than the PSP? Also if HD DVD is a failed format (I mean except for the obvious that's all happened recently) then is Blu-Ray too? Since they're both not very popular if HD DVD isn't seen as popular because Blu-Ray only had a 2:1 advantage which is very small if you look at the overall sales of both formats. In fact HD DVD still holds the record for the biggest week's sales of 1 movie with Transformers and that was about 6 months ago! And just this week American Gangster was the number 1 HD movie and it's an HD DVD, so a movie on a "dead" format managed to outsell all the Blu-Ray movies that week. Just because Sony can sell movies to people who buy its videogames consoles doesn't necessarily mean that their movie format is popular. (Before you mention the PS2, DVDs were already popular before it was realeased, it just helped drive player prices down since Sony subsidized the PS2 so heavily that other manufacturers had to drop their DVD player prices to compete, especially in Japan where the PS2 was actually the cheapest DVD player available there!)

Is CED that old videodisc thing? If it is then it's funny you bring it up as I seem to remember reading (on here somewhere I think) that it actually "won" the format war against Laserdisc at first and Laserdisc's creators gave up just like Toshiba has with HD DVD... then Pioneer came along, resurrected Laserdisc and totally killed off CED!

The software and CE markets in Japan (and the U.S.) are strong enough that, under the right circumstances, they can support a format on their own. For example, how many Blu-ray/HDD recorders are sold outside Japan? None. Yet it's doing well enough here that no BD manufacturer has deemed it necessary to release a BD player in the local market. The fact that you can't buy one in the UK or US (yet) does not make recordable BD a failed format. Or to paraphrase your own statement, "All I'm saying is that just because something still sells or is even popular in 1 country doesn't mean that it's a failure."

Exactly. There are a lot of people on this board who think that North America (more specifically the US) is the center of the world. Again, UMD's are not a smashing success as Sony had wanted, but they are not a TOTAL failure either. And they certainly are not dead as some have claimed.

Sony lovers really show how childish they are every time anythng ANTI Sony is discussesd dont they? Seriouisly,grow up.

Wow, thanks for enlightening us with that intelligent response. Too bad Corellianrogue already beat you too it:rolleyes:

Do you actually have anything constructive to add to the discussion? No? Then please refrain from enlightening us any further.

Actually if you quoted me properly I said that just because something is popular in 1 country doesn't mean it's popular everywhere else, I didn't say horseracing videogames are a failure. I was using an example of something that was just popular in 1 place, that's all.

But given your previous comments ("UMD is DEAD"), you seem to be implying that success only on a regional (and not worldwide) basis constitues failure. Any other comments that you make will naturally be viewed in that context. If this is NOT what you meant, how can you say that UMD is a failure when it does enjoy some measure of success in at least one market?

UMD is a failure because not only was it sold and marketed all over the world but Sony claimed it was the next generation portable video format and that it would be incorporated into all kinds of portable devices. So does anything else play UMDs other than the PSP?

This is why I included the MD example in my comments. Like UMD, MD is also a format that never lived up to Sony's expectations, but managed to find a market big enough to justify its continued existence and even turn a profit.

Also if HD DVD is a failed format (I mean except for the obvious that's all happened recently) then is Blu-Ray too? Since they're both not very popular if HD DVD isn't seen as popular because Blu-Ray only had a 2:1 advantage which is very small if you look at the overall sales of both formats. In fact HD DVD still holds the record for the biggest week's sales of 1 movie with Transformers and that was about 6 months ago! And just this week American Gangster was the number 1 HD movie and it's an HD DVD, so a movie on a "dead" format managed to outsell all the Blu-Ray movies that week.

YIKES! Where did this come from? Did I even mention HD-DVD in any of my posts? I brought up recordable Blu-ray/HDD decks not as a comparison to HD-DVD, but as an example of how a format can be viable even if it is only sold in a single market.

But since you brought it up, (per my previously stated definition) BD is NOT a "failed" format because, unlike HD-DVD, NONE of the BD-supporting manufacturers or studios has stated that they are going to cease releasing product for that format. In fact, quite the opposite is happening, both on the hardware AND software fronts. As far as BD's small market share is concerned, the entire concept that a lack of overwhelming success = failure is YOURS, not mine. Think about it, you're asking me to agree with the very premise that I've been arguing against all this time. In fact, the very crux of this disagreement seems to be the idea that anything that is not a raging success must, by definition, be a dismal failure. My world is not that "black and white."

Just because Sony can sell movies to people who buy its videogames consoles doesn't necessarily mean that their movie format is popular.

Are you now saying that only PS3 owners are buying BDs? I take it that you don't subscribe to the "PS3 attach rates suck!" school of thought then.

(Before you mention the PS2, DVDs were already popular before it was realeased, it just helped drive player prices down since Sony subsidized the PS2 so heavily that other manufacturers had to drop their DVD player prices to compete, especially in Japan where the PS2 was actually the cheapest DVD player available there!)

You'll be happy to know that this thought did not even cross my mind.

Its enough to say between the US,UK and Japan more than 600 UMD's have come out from feature films,anime,hentai and porn. The only one Im kinda miffed about is Bible Black which had such a limited run it sold out in a week of all 4 volumes and it was one of very few hentai releases that was a reg.0 release to. Even all 3 Matrix films came out in the UK and we only got the first one in the US.

Is CED that old videodisc thing? If it is then it's funny you bring it up as I seem to remember reading (on here somewhere I think) that it actually "won" the format war against Laserdisc at first and Laserdisc's creators gave up just like Toshiba has with HD DVD... then Pioneer came along, resurrected Laserdisc and totally killed off CED!

To my knowledge, this is incorrect. Pioneer manufactured consumer LD players continuously from 1980 until well into the 21st century (LD/DVD combo players can still be found with a little searching). CED players were introduced to the public at the 1981　Consumer Electronics Show and player manufacture ended in 1984 with only about 800,000 players ever produced. There may have been a short period when CED sold more than LD, but if so, I don't remember it. And I've owned an LD player continuously since 1984. My first player was a second-hand top-loading Pioneer from 1982. What you may be thinking about is the fact that LD has gone through several name changes in its history (Disco-Vision, DiscoVision, Laser Videodisc, LaserDisc, Laserdisc), but these were all marketing, not production changes.

To my knowledge, this is incorrect. Pioneer manufactured consumer LD players continuously from the late 1970's until well into the 21st century (LD/DVD combo players can still be found with a little searching). CED player manufacture ended in 1984 with only about 800,000 players ever produced. There may have been a short period when CED sold more than LD, but if so, I don't remember it. And I've owned an LD player continuously since 1984. My first player was a second-hand top-loading Pioneer from 1982. What you may be thinking about is the fact that LD has gone through several name changes in its history (Disco-Vision, DiscoVision, Laser Videodisc, LaserDisc, Laserdisc), but these were all marketing, not production changes.

Quite true. Pioneer entered into the Laserdisc market in 1978 (they are actually the ones who named it LaserVideoDisc, which was shortened to Laserdisc), while CED wasn't introduced until 1981. Somehow I cannot give any credibiliity to Corellianrogue's statement when I read "and Laserdisc's creators gave up". I mean, at least research who those creators were (MCA and Phillips).

But given your previous comments ("UMD is DEAD"), you seem to be implying that success only on a regional (and not worldwide) basis constitues failure. Any other comments that you make will naturally be viewed in that context. If this is NOT what you meant, how can you say that UMD is a failure when it does enjoy some measure of success in at least one market?

OK, so maybe you missed the point of the example. The example of horseracing videogames (at least on consoles) was to show that popularity in 1 country does not mean it's popular everywhere. So if UMDs are popular in Japan (are they actually popular or just still available for sale?) it doesn't mean they are everywhere else. However horseracing games aren't necessarily a failure because they're designed and marketed for the Japanese market, whereas UMDs were meant to be a new worldwide format but it failed and as far as I know the PSP is the only player.

This is why I included the MD example in my comments. Like UMD, MD is also a format that never lived up to Sony's expectations, but managed to find a market big enough to justify its continued existence and even turn a profit.

Well isn't that fortunate for Sony's bank account? MD's officially still considered a failure though (edit: as in consumer-wise, I know it's fairly successful and still used in the media/entertainment industry) whether you think it is, or even whether Sony says it is, or not.

YIKES! Where did this come from? Did I even mention HD-DVD in any of my posts? I brought up recordable Blu-ray/HDD decks not as a comparison to HD-DVD, but as an example of how a format can be viable even if it is only sold in a single market.

I was trying to point out that not only is UMD officially a failure but that Blu-Ray isn't not a failure yet and still has a long way to go. If I found out that HD DVD was a huge success somewhere, say Latvia, and even outselling DVD there should I shout from the rooftops and start posting all over the forums that HD DVD isn't a failure, it's a success? Like I said, some success somewhere doesn't mean something's not an overall failure.

But since you brought it up, (per my previously stated definition) BD is NOT a "failed" format because, unlike HD-DVD, NONE of the BD-supporting manufacturers or studios has stated that they are going to cease releasing product for that format. In fact, quite the opposite is happening, both on the hardware AND software fronts. As far as BD's small market share is concerned, the entire concept that a lack of overwhelming success = failure is YOURS, not mine. Think about it, you're asking me to agree with the very premise that I've been arguing against all this time. In fact, the very crux of this disagreement seems to be the idea that anything that is not a raging success must, by definition, be a dismal failure. My world is not that "black and white."

I addressed some of this above. It's only been 18 months (slightly less even) since Blu-Ray was released. I looked it up and CED players and movies were still being produced up to 3 years after it was released so just because Blu-Ray isn't a complete failure doesn't mean that it's a success yet either. Also I didn't say UMD was a dismal failure just a failure. The above mentioned CED was a dismal failure from what I've read. (Also from what I just read I may have been wrong about the CED vs LD thing. Maybe it was some other videodisc vs LD? Maybe someone can set me straight on that.) In fact I just found out that by 1998 (after 20 years) only 2 million Laserdisc players had been sold in North America! WTF???!!! :eek: HD DVD sells 900,000 players (including the Xbox360 add-on) in North America in 18 months and is considered a failure and dropped like a rock yet Laserdisc sells 2 million players in North America after 20 YEARS and is considered a minor success and was supported for 23 YEARS until 2001! Hmmm, if anybody tries to tell me a lot of dodgy deals weren't done in this format war then sorry but I'm not listening anymore. (Paramount brought out Sleepy Hollow and Bringing Out The Dead on Laserdisc in 2000 yet won't release Sweeney Todd in a few weeks and Dreamwork's Bee Movie on HD DVD in a week? Huh???)

Are you now saying that only PS3 owners are buying BDs? I take it that you don't subscribe to the "PS3 attach rates suck!" school of thought then.

Actually I hadn't really thought about attach rates but now that you mention it I seem to remember hearing something recently about Blu-Ray movies hitting 2 million sales worldwide since launch (someone correct me if I'm wrong because I honestly don't know for sure but I don't think it's far off) so if we forget about Blu-Ray standalones for a while and just take the 10 million PS3s sold worldwide then that means that if only 20% of PS3 owners buy Blu-Ray movies then they only buy 1 movie each! Since there are over 500,000 Blu-Ray standalones sold now (probably well over) then the attach rate for both is pretty abysmal!

You'll be happy to know that this thought did not even cross my mind.

That's OK then. :D

Quite true. Pioneer entered into the Laserdisc market in 1978 (they are actually the ones who named it LaserVideoDisc, which was shortened to Laserdisc), while CED wasn't introduced until 1981. Somehow I cannot give any credibiliity to Corellianrogue's statement when I read "and Laserdisc's creators gave up". I mean, at least research who those creators were (MCA and Phillips).

Excuse me but I did say it was something I read on here recently and couldn't remember all the details and I wasn't pretending to be an expert on the subject so what has it got to do with my credibility? And I was just trying to remember what I read so I wasn't going to research anything since it was just a brief example I was giving. However as you can see above I did research a few things a little more which is why I said I might be wrong about CED. I definitely read somewhere about a type of videodisc beating Laserdisc at first before Pioneer took over. If I'm wrong then whoever wrote what I read was wrong as I would never claim that anything other than VHS (and maybe Betamax too) beat Laserdisc... as it's not made by Sony. :p (Kidding!)

Whether UMD "failed" is relative to your expectations. Sony never put any real effort into making it anything more than a PSP disc (it never had blank media, never had recorders, and no standalone players).

For what it was, it's remarkable how much UMD sold (and I'm sure it has more than turned a profit since it was launched). It's a "success" relative to those expectations, but if you want to compare it to DVD (why?), then I guess you can call it a failure if you really want to.

UMD failed for 3 reasons

1) Price. WHen it first came out it was expensive Its still expensive

30 Days of Night http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=16228333&st=umd&type=product&id=1786159

UMD $20
DVD $20
Bluray $30

Obviously the dvd is the best value as you can buy it and rip it to a memory card and play it in your psp. You can also buy the bluray and if its not bd+ rip it to a dvd to play on other tvs and in your car and then onto memory card to watch it on your psp.

2) Lack of players. The psp is a great player but if thats all then there is a problem. They should have come out with a small player that cost I dunno $100 or so that could hook up to your current tv or card lcd and play them.

3) Memory sticks . you can just rip dvds to the psp .


Honestly anyone who things that umd was a good idea the way it was , is and was nuts .


For umd to matter sony has to add it into either their dvds or into bluray packages .

Charge $5 bucks more for their new releases on dvd with the inclusion of umds and it will take off . I don't know how much u need to sell umds at to make a profit , but i think that on a few high profile movies giving the umds away is a smart idea.

Umds should be an impulse buy and should be less than $10 .

UMD failed for 3 reasons

1) Price. WHen it first came out it was expensive Its still expensive

30 Days of Night http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=16228333&st=umd&type=product&id=1786159

UMD $20
DVD $20
Bluray $30

Obviously the dvd is the best value as you can buy it and rip it to a memory card and play it in your psp. You can also buy the bluray and if its not bd+ rip it to a dvd to play on other tvs and in your car and then onto memory card to watch it on your psp.

2) Lack of players. The psp is a great player but if thats all then there is a problem. They should have come out with a small player that cost I dunno $100 or so that could hook up to your current tv or card lcd and play them.

3) Memory sticks . you can just rip dvds to the psp .


Honestly anyone who things that umd was a good idea the way it was , is and was nuts .


For umd to matter sony has to add it into either their dvds or into bluray packages .

Charge $5 bucks more for their new releases on dvd with the inclusion of umds and it will take off . I don't know how much u need to sell umds at to make a profit , but i think that on a few high profile movies giving the umds away is a smart idea.

Umds should be an impulse buy and should be less than $10 .

I honestly thought UMDs were going to be under £10 but when they first came out they cost MORE than DVDs! :eek: I mean who the hell actually buys UMDs when they can, as you said, just copy their DVD on a memory stick? :confused: It's like buying music from iTunes when you've already got the CD, lol!

Excuse me but I did say it was something I read on here recently and couldn't remember all the details and I wasn't pretending to be an expert on the subject so what has it got to do with my credibility? And I was just trying to remember what I read so I wasn't going to research anything since it was just a brief example I was giving. However as you can see above I did research a few things a little more which is why I said I might be wrong about CED. I definitely read somewhere about a type of videodisc beating Laserdisc at first before Pioneer took over. If I'm wrong then whoever wrote what I read was wrong as I would never claim that anything other than VHS (and maybe Betamax too) beat Laserdisc... as it's not made by Sony. :p (Kidding!)

I was not questioning your credibility, but simply the credibility of your statement. I don't know you personally, and therefore cannot make any type of assessment of YOUR credibility. My apologies if you took it that way.

I honestly thought UMDs were going to be under £10 but when they first came out they cost MORE than DVDs! :eek: I mean who the hell actually buys UMDs when they can, as you said, just copy their DVD on a memory stick? :confused: It's like buying music from iTunes when you've already got the CD, lol!

Right , I mean its great that there are $10 and under umds but most of those are movies i own on dvd already and don't warrent a $10 purchase as I can rip them.


As I said $5 bucks for older titles and $10 bucks for new releases and they will run better

I was not questioning your credibility, but simply the credibility of your statement. I don't know you personally, and therefore cannot make any type of assessment of YOUR credibility. My apologies if you took it that way.

Well considering that my post started with "Is CED that old videodisc thing?" and that the whole post was just something I was trying to recall (apart from the very brief "what if?" bit about HD DVD) then why did you need to question the credibility at all? You could have just corrected the facts for me and I'd be grateful. In fact thanks for reminding me the creators were MCA and Philips. (Although I did actually find that out just before you posted it because I was looking up some facts about Laserdisc and CED, lol!) I'd never even heard of CED until last year actually. I saw one on eBay and thought "What the hell is that???". It came with a movie but I can't remember what it was, it must have been a movie I was looking for which is why it came up in the search results.

Well isn't that fortunate for Sony's bank account? MD's officially still considered a failure though (edit: as in consumer-wise, I know it's fairly successful and still used in the media/entertainment industry) whether you think it is, or even whether Sony says it is, or not.

Sony hate aside, is there some website that I can visit where I can to see the "official" announcement that MiniDisc was a failure? As I said in my earlier post, Sony's not the only one who didn't give up on MD in Japan. Panasonic, Aiwa, Sharp, Onkyo and many other companies thought there was enough life in it to continue making MD products to this day. And you yourself admit that MD is "fairly successful and still used in the media/entertainment industry." If it's making money for the supporting companies, can it really be considered a failure?

I was trying to point out that not only is UMD officially a failure but that Blu-Ray isn't not a failure yet and still has a long way to go. If I found out that HD DVD was a huge success somewhere, say Latvia, and even outselling DVD there should I shout from the rooftops and start posting all over the forums that HD DVD isn't a failure, it's a success? Like I said, some success somewhere doesn't mean something's not an overall failure.

I'm sorry, for a second there I could have sworn you just tried to equate the influence of the CE market in Latvia to that of Japan. That can't be true, can it? In terms of total expenditure, you can't even compare the CE market in the UK to Japan. Only the U.S. and China (with 2.4x and 8x Japan's population, respectively) spends more on CE than Japanese consumers do. Not to mention the fact that most major CE manufacturers (at least for the HD players and game consoles that we're talking about) are, in fact, Japanese. If you think that Japanese companies don't care about the loyalty and preferences of their own domestic consumers, then I don't know what to say. Why do you think there are so many cool gadgets and laptops that never make it overseas?

By the way, I never said UMD or BD were successes, just that they weren't failures. My main argument is with your definition of "failure." Your opinion seems to be that there are only two options, first or dead.

I addressed some of this above. It's only been 18 months (slightly less even) since Blu-Ray was released. I looked it up and CED players and movies were still being produced up to 3 years after it was released so just because Blu-Ray isn't a complete failure doesn't mean that it's a success yet either.

I have a feeling that Blu-ray will still be around a lot longer than next summer, which will be it's 3rd anniversary. BD recorders already make up more than 20 percent of the Japanese optical disc/HDD recorder market, so it's not disappearing anytime soon over here. FYI, I was already in this hobby when CED died. It disappeared virtually overnight (or as quickly as retailers could get rid of it).

Also I didn't say UMD was a dismal failure just a failure.

Is this like in the Princess Bride when Billy Crystal said that Wesley was only "mostly dead?" :D


The above mentioned CED was a dismal failure from what I've read. (Also from what I just read I may have been wrong about the CED vs LD thing. Maybe it was some other videodisc vs LD? Maybe someone can set me straight on that.) In fact I just found out that by 1998 (after 20 years) only 2 million Laserdisc players had been sold in North America! WTF???!!! :eek: HD DVD sells 900,000 players (including the Xbox360 add-on) in North America in 18 months and is considered a failure and dropped like a rock yet Laserdisc sells 2 million players in North America after 20 YEARS and is considered a minor success and was supported for 23 YEARS until 2001! Hmmm, if anybody tries to tell me a lot of dodgy deals weren't done in this format war then sorry but I'm not listening anymore. (Paramount brought out Sleepy Hollow and Bringing Out The Dead on Laserdisc in 2000 yet won't release Sweeney Todd in a few weeks and Dreamwork's Bee Movie on HD DVD in a week? Huh???)

You're forgetting that the 2 million LD players in America were only part of the total market. Japan had even higher penetration (some say as high as 4 million players, or 10% of households compared to 2% for the U.S.) and this market took a lot longer to abandon LD than the U.S. did. Also, LD owners (on both sides of the pond) were voracious movie buyers, not renters.

Actually I hadn't really thought about attach rates but now that you mention it I seem to remember hearing something recently about Blu-Ray movies hitting 2 million sales worldwide since launch (someone correct me if I'm wrong because I honestly don't know for sure but I don't think it's far off) so if we forget about Blu-Ray standalones for a while and just take the 10 million PS3s sold worldwide then that means that if only 20% of PS3 owners buy Blu-Ray movies then they only buy 1 movie each! Since there are over 500,000 Blu-Ray standalones sold now (probably well over) then the attach rate for both is pretty abysmal!

I think the 2 million number you're referring to is the BD disc sales for Europe up until this past Christmas. The worldwide totals (including the U.S., Japan, etc.) should be more. I've seen 8.3 million for HD-DVD and Blu-ray, which would give BD about 5 million.

http://www.itrpress.com/cp/2008/2008-02-14_9372.pdf

Sony hate aside, is there some website that I can visit where I can to see the "official" announcement that MiniDisc was a failure? As I said in my earlier post, Sony's not the only one who didn't give up on MD in Japan. Panasonic, Aiwa, Sharp, Onkyo and many other companies thought there was enough life in it to continue making MD products to this day. And you yourself admit that MD is "fairly successful and still used in the media/entertainment industry." If it's making money for the supporting companies, can it really be considered a failure?

Minidisc was created in order to be the next generation (at the time) audio format and Sony failed to achieve that so therefore it's a failure. Its not just me saying this, pretty much everyone who isn't blinded by loyalty to Sony says it:

"The author was surprised to find that successful and failing companies shared so many similarities. (On that note, he includes case studies of winning approaches, such as those of Microsoft (MSFT ) and Johnson & Johnson (JNJ ), as well as perceived failures such as Vivendi, Canadian telecom giant BCE (BCE ), and Sony (SNE ), with its unsuccessful Betamax and MiniDisc technologies.)"

THE STRATEGY PARADOX
Why Committing to Success Leads to Failure (And What to Do About It

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_12/b4026106.htm


"ATRAC is a relic of another failure, Sony’s MiniDisc format."

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:XCcNXpjoskcJ:www.fccj.or.jp/~fccjyod2/files/200504.pdf


"Apple’s Steve Jobs repeatedly tried to convince the labels that their music business desperately needed a workable online strategy, not a DRM-heavy system that Microsoft was working to deliver by following the failure of MiniDisc, SACD and DVD-Audio in software."

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/07/10/universal-vs-apple-in-the-itunes-store-contracts/



I'm sorry, for a second there I could have sworn you just tried to equate the influence of the CE market in Latvia to that of Japan. That can't be true, can it? In terms of total expenditure, you can't even compare the CE market in the UK to Japan. Only the U.S. and China (with 2.4x and 8x Japan's population, respectively) spends more on CE than Japanese consumers do. Not to mention the fact that most major CE manufacturers (at least for the HD players and game consoles that we're talking about) are, in fact, Japanese. If you think that Japanese companies don't care about the loyalty and preferences of their own domestic consumers, then I don't know what to say. Why do you think there are so many cool gadgets and laptops that never make it overseas?

By the way, I never said UMD or BD were successes, just that they weren't failures. My main argument is with your definition of "failure." Your opinion seems to be that there are only two options, first or dead.

I never said that Blu-Ray was a failure I just said that it's not yet not a failure, it's too early to tell and too few movie sales to call it a success just because it happened to beat HD DVD. (By default really since HD DVD gave up.)


I have a feeling that Blu-ray will still be around a lot longer than next summer, which will be it's 3rd anniversary. BD recorders already make up more than 20 percent of the Japanese optical disc/HDD recorder market, so it's not disappearing anytime soon over here. FYI, I was already in this hobby when CED died. It disappeared virtually overnight (or as quickly as retailers could get rid of it).

Well cross your fingers and maybe it will be around longer than next Summer. In fact I'm 99% sure that you're right because even if some kind of major new HD technology appears in the next 18 months and all the studios jump ship to it Sony will keep Blu-Ray "alive" as long as they possibly can, just like they did with Betamax.

Is this like in the Princess Bride when Billy Crystal said that Wesley was only "mostly dead?" :D

I don't know, I still haven't got around to seeing The Princess Bride yet, I really want to though. :D But UMD's like the Black Knight in Monty Python And The Holy Grail when all his limbs have been chopped off and he's on the floor shouting "Come back you b*stard I'm not dead yet! I'll bite you to death!!" at the very least it's not "just pining for the fjords" lol!


You're forgetting that the 2 million LD players in America were only part of the total market. Japan had even higher penetration (some say as high as 4 million players, or 10% of households compared to 2% for the U.S.) and this market took a lot longer to abandon LD than the U.S. did. Also, LD owners (on both sides of the pond) were voracious movie buyers, not renters.

OK, so worldwide Laserdisc sold over 6 million players in 20 years. I'm sure if HD DVD was supported for 20 years it could sell at least 6 million too! How many Laserdisc players were sold by 1980?

I think the 2 million number you're referring to is the BD disc sales for Europe up until this past Christmas. The worldwide totals (including the U.S., Japan, etc.) should be more. I've seen 8.3 million for HD-DVD and Blu-ray, which would give BD about 5 million.

http://www.itrpress.com/cp/2008/2008-02-14_9372.pdf

OK, fair enough, like I said I wasn't sure of the actual number so thanks for that, I'm perfectly happy to accept that number from you and the website you linked to. So using my previous example that would mean that just counting 20% of PS3 owners each owner would each own on average only 2.5 movies, still very poor! And when you add on the standalone players that attach rate gets even worse!!

Why won't you just admit that UMD is a failure? Is a portable disc format really that important? Can't you concede that at least 1 Sony product isn't a success? (Or 2 as surely you don't dispute that Betamax was a failure?) Here's something that will cheer you up... and then bring you right back down again, lol! Despite being classed as a failure by everybody except a few people on this forum and probably some die-hard PSP fans out there in the rest of the internet UMD actually sold 3 times as many movies in 1 year than Blu-Ray sold in 18 months! :eek:

Just to add here: I have the PSP 2000 and I've used it to display UMD on my TV. It is not in any way as good as DVD.

I was really hoping the PS3 would rip or play UMDs to add value to the format but the PSP2k (or slim) with the vid cord finally did it.

What surprises me is how this thread is alive? How is this related to HDTV Software media discussion in anyway?