1st, you might want to look into why your monitor isn't playing nice. Sounds a lot like a HDMI handshake problem.

I agree. Could be a bad cable. Could be that a power on sequence might cure it. Could be a power conditioner/outlet,current problem. Could be lots of things.

Yep superbit. I own the 5th. element disc and have the BD version coming from Netflix.

Should make for an interesting shootout between the 983 and PS3.

Joe

Not really. I like the movie so much that I went and bought it on BR thinking it would look that much better. Well, it doesn't look BAD. It's just that the Superbit looks so good, that there really isn't that much improvement.:rolleyes:
Of course my display is 720p native, so if you've got a good 1080p display to watch, then your results may differ.
Please post what you find out.
:)

I received mine today and the first disc I put in was the region 2 disc of Castle of Cagliostro. Every 5 minutes the picture would go black. I had it set to 1080P, then 1080i after the first drop out. I will return this to Oppo and ask for a new one.

Mick
Before you take it back, make sure you have the latest firmware installed. There were a few issues like yours with the earlier firmware.

A few guys in the UK are reporting audio /video dropouts with their new machines displaying that they have '07-0709'; they've updated to 08-0709 and they say that's fixed the errors - now, I'm confused. I thought both those firmwares were the same, simply different batch numbers?

One chap asked Oppo if he could resolve an issue by reverting to an earlier firmware and was told:

You can not use the older firmware on your hardware design. You must use the latest firmware release 08-0709 Firmware (http://oppodigital.com/dv983h/dv983h...e-07-0619.html). The timings of the new hardware are not compatible with the previous firmware releases.

'New hardware' is intriguing...

Thank you for all the suggestions. I used the HDMI cable that Oppo supplied. Since it just came from Oppo you do not think it has the latest firmware?

A few guys in the UK are reporting audio /video dropouts with their new machines displaying that they have '07-0709'; they've updated to 08-0709 and they say that's fixed the errors - now, I'm confused. I thought both those firmwares were the same, simply different batch numbers?

One chap asked Oppo if he could resolve an issue by reverting to an earlier firmware and was told:

You can not use the older firmware on your hardware design. You must use the latest firmware release 08-0709 Firmware (http://oppodigital.com/dv983h/dv983h...e-07-0619.html). The timings of the new hardware are not compatible with the previous firmware releases.

'New hardware' is intriguing...

Somewhere, deep within this thread is discussion about Oppo initially fixing the dropout problem (had to do more with the receiving gear IIRC than the 983H) with hardware. Eventually they figured out how to adjust the timing via software. So, end result is the same.

I am sure Neuro, Gonk, or one of the other guys can clarify.

I am still curious about my MVersion 0A.00.02.00. This must be the Mediatek version? A Google search revealed this Mversion is on the 980H as well, while the 05.00.01.07 seems to be on the 970, 971 and 981 models in addition to the 983H.

Somewhere, deep within this thread is discussion about Oppo initially fixing the dropout problem (had to do more with the receiving gear IIRC than the 983H) with hardware. Eventually they figured out how to adjust the timing via software. So, end result is the same.

Ah! Thanks for that. Still, confusing that new machines loaded with '07-0709' are having dropouts, and '08-0709' sorts it.

I've had my 983 for about a month, so far the biggest annoyance are Lip synch issues when playing PAL discs. Does PAL to NTSC conversion usually cause these Lip Synch issues. All my NTSC discs seem to be working fine.

Anyone have any suggestions for correcting this?

I am still curious about my MVersion 0A.00.02.00. This must be the Mediatek version?

I believe it is Macrovision, a DRM nuisance.

-Bill

Well, having played with the 983 last night with several movies, I have to say I can see an improvement over my RP82. While I had grown accustomed to the picture quality coming out of the RP82 (which was pretty damn good over component and blown up to 92"), compared to the 983 it looks softer, and almost as if it had been slightly out-of-focus all along. Some movies, like The Fifth Element, show noticable detail improvement. Others, like Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, almost go too grainy, like artificial detail/noise was being added (which, I guess, is true). But luckily from 10' back or so it's not a big bother, and the net result is still "improvement".

A $400 improvement? Probably not. But I don't feel like going through the hassle of returning this. I figure, I now have a sexy black DVD player that looks better than my old one, perhaps as good as DVDs are ever going to get, and it has some other slight benefits over the RP82 (HDMI, automatic AR detection, etc). And I now have a DVD player with a warranty (3y). If OPPO comes out with a Blu-Ray player that plays DVDs as well as the 983, I'll upgrade to that and hopefully the 983 will have some resale value. If not, somewhere down the line I'll just pick up the cheapest profile 2.0 player that doesn't suck.

For what its worth, my 983 arrived with the latest firmware. It turns out that my projector will not accept 1080p but it accepted 1080i and downscaled it to 720p. This gave better results than sending 720p from the 983.

Nuisances:


disc tray doesn't totally eject, forcing you to put the lip of the DVD under the faceplate a bit. Apparently this is a common OPPO thing
My learning remote seemed to have trouble picking up the OPPO signals. It'd say "success" but it wouldn't work, and it'd take several tries. Never did get "Info" working.
Included power cord is way too fat for what it needs to carry for amps
OSD graphics quality sucks pretty bad
Subtitle fonts suck (and all 3 look the same)

Nuisances:


disc tray doesn't totally eject, forcing you to put the lip of the DVD under the faceplate a bit. Apparently this is a common OPPO thing
My learning remote seemed to have trouble picking up the OPPO signals. It'd say "success" but it wouldn't work, and it'd take several tries. Never did get "Info" working.
Included power cord is way too fat for what it needs to carry for amps
OSD graphics quality sucks pretty bad
Subtitle fonts suck (and all 3 look the same)


Thank you for the list of nuisances. I was wondering about all of those, as I have the same nits and was thinking the first two were just on my new DV983H. BTW, I picked up a 3' power cord from monoprice that works just great and is much less clunky then the supplied one.

However, on the other hand, I feel my $400 was very well spent. The inclusion of HDCD, SACD, DVD-A and the incredible picture improvements make this player a great addition to my PS3. I love the way I can resize (zoom) nonanamorphic WS DVDs just about anyway I want and send them to my two displays in 1080P. I can't do that with my PS3. And the way this thing handles interlacing problems makes it worth its price alone. I could never get Futurama Season One to play perfectly before the DV983H, and many concert videos are finally sharp and solid. I can play DTS-Audio discs now on the Oppo without having to otherwise mess with my PS3's bitrate. Also, the solid "all metal" construction on the thing is a plus for me too. A great player indeed for those that can appreciate it and for many more reasons than I've listed! :)

Well, having played with the 983 last night with several movies, I have to say I can see an improvement over my RP82. While I had grown accustomed to the picture quality coming out of the RP82 (which was pretty damn good over component and blown up to 92"), compared to the 983 it looks softer, and almost as if it had been slightly out-of-focus all along. Some movies, like The Fifth Element, show noticable detail improvement. Others, like Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, almost go too grainy, like artificial detail/noise was being added (which, I guess, is true). But luckily from 10' back or so it's not a big bother, and the net result is still "improvement".



You need to re-calibrate your monitor with the 983, and be certain to turn any sharpness control on the monitor completely off. Some folks like the sharpness set to -1 on the 983, but I find that with a properly calibrated monitor it's better set at 0. Most of the common calibration discs include a test pattern for sharpness adjustment.

The inclusion of HDCD, SACD, DVD-A and the incredible picture improvements make this player a great addition to my PS3.I can understand that, but in my case none of those are of any use/interest to me. It's all about the movies. :)

I love the way I can resize (zoom) nonanamorphic WS DVDs just about anyway I want and send them to my two displays in 1080P.Hmm I forgot about that. I have 1 (and only 1) non-anamorphic letterboxed widescreen movie in my collection: the Criterion Collection edition of Armageddon. Not a movie worth buying a $400 player for, but I should try that feature out at least.

I forgot to ask before: is there a way with the 983 to disable UOP/PUO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_operation_prohibition)? If there was anything that ever pissed me off about DVDs...

I thought both those firmwares were the same, simply different batch numbers?

OPPO does not disclose all information related to the firmware, as some changes to the firmware are behind the scenes changes that the end user never really needs to know about. The Firmware Notes contain the information that OPPO feels is relevant to the customer.

'New hardware' is intriguing...

Every hardware which comes off of the assembly line is different in minor ways to previous hardware.

Look at the DV-981HD. The new firmware contains two separate BIN files, as the newer units are slightly different from the older plays, which can cause compatibility issues.

The same is said with the DV-983H. If you bought the unit recently, and are using 1080p, you must use the 08-0709 firmware otherwise you will have issues with video dropouts.

I am still curious about my MVersion 0A.00.02.00. This must be the Mediatek version? .

MVersion is your MacroVision version. It does not concern you as an end user.

I've had my 983 for about a month, so far the biggest annoyance are Lip synch issues when playing PAL discs. Does PAL to NTSC conversion usually cause these Lip Synch issues. All my NTSC discs seem to be working fine.

Is the audio occurring before or after the video?

Synchronization issues can occur due to the differences in frame rates. NTSC has more frames than PAL, which can cause problems related to video buffering overrun. This will cause the video to lag behind the audio.

The same is said with the DV-983H. If you bought the unit recently, and are using 1080p, you must use the 08-0709 firmware otherwise you will have issues with video dropouts.Mine arrived yesterday and had firmware 07-0709, which OPPO considers the same as 08-0709: "All three batch numbers correspond to the same firmware release and contain the same feature/improvement set. Different batch numbers are used in different production runs."

Included power cord is way too fat for what it needs to carry for amps
And yet, you had people bitching about the DV-980H power cord when that was released because it was not thick enough.
Subtitle fonts suck (and all 3 look the same)
Subtitle Font only relates to external subtitles and their output size, not on the actual font used. This option does not effect DVD-Video Subtitles.

Mine arrived yesterday and had firmware 07-0709, which OPPO considers the same as 08-0709: "All three batch numbers correspond to the same firmware release and contain the same feature/improvement set. Different batch numbers are used in different production runs."


Like I said, OPPO does not always disclose all the information related to variations amongst the firmware. The 07-0619 will work on most machines, with some machines, particularly those outputting PAL, needing the 08-0709 firmware.

Like I said, OPPO does not always disclose all the information related to variations amongst the firmware. The 07-0619 will work on most machines, with some machines, particularly those outputting PAL, needing the 08-0709 firmware.

It did confuse me slightly that one of those problem machines I mentioned was supplied by an authorised UK reseller who seems to be unaware of any differences between 07-0709 and 08-0709. Ah, well...

Thanks for that Neuromancer.

And yet, you had people bitching about the DV-980H power cord when that was released because it was not thick enough.Haha, not me! :)

Anyhow, it really isn't a big deal. I have no shortage of spare power cords. I was just thinking in terms of the average consumer (but then again, is the "average" consumer buying the 983???)

In case it gets buried: is there a way with the 983 to disable UOP/PUO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_operation_prohibition)? If there was anything that ever pissed me off about DVDs...

You need to re-calibrate your monitor with the 983, and be certain to turn any sharpness control on the monitor completely off. Some folks like the sharpness set to -1 on the 983, but I find that with a properly calibrated monitor it's better set at 0. Most of the common calibration discs include a test pattern for sharpness adjustment.I was actually doing this last night, using the Avia II DVD. If I remember correctly, sharpness is still being left at "0". The issue wasn't present in all DVDs... of the handful I tried, I only noticed it in Harry Potter.

In case it gets buried: is there a way with the 983 to disable UOP/PUO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_operation_prohibition)? If there was anything that ever pissed me off about DVDs...
Press Stop then the Menu button. This will directly access the main feature film.

Most UPOs can also be bypassed with the Skip and Fast Forward buttons.

Is the audio occurring before or after the video?

Synchronization issues can occur due to the differences in frame rates. NTSC has more frames than PAL, which can cause problems related to video buffering overrun. This will cause the video to lag behind the audio.

Thanks for the response. Actually, the audio is lagging behind the video - meaning I can see their mouth move about 2 seconds before th audio kicks in. Im going to my receiver via HDMI and from the receiver to the tv via hdmi. Anybody know of anything that might help?

If the audio is lagging behind the video, then something is not set properly on your receiving equipment. Ensure that under Audio Setup that the Delay is set to "0" on the DV-983H.

Ensure that your Channel Delays, Distances, and other settings on your receiver are set properly as well.

Hmm I forgot about that. I have 1 (and only 1) non-anamorphic letterboxed widescreen movie in my collection: the Criterion Collection edition of Armageddon. Not a movie worth buying a $400 player for, but I should try that feature out at least.

If you're interested, there is an R4 anamorphic version that has a stunning transfer of the same director's cut as the Criterion version. Just about any Australian shop will sell it to you. I bought mine from EZyDVD:

http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/787802

It's on sale right now for about $11.25US plus shipping which usually runs me about $4 to Texas via airmail...10 days to two weeks.

It looks almost like HD quality on the 983!

-Toonces

Nuisances:


disc tray doesn't totally eject, forcing you to put the lip of the DVD under the faceplate a bit. Apparently this is a common OPPO thing
My learning remote seemed to have trouble picking up the OPPO signals. It'd say "success" but it wouldn't work, and it'd take several tries. Never did get "Info" working.
Included power cord is way too fat for what it needs to carry for amps
OSD graphics quality sucks pretty bad
Subtitle fonts suck (and all 3 look the same)


I'm glade to hear someone else is having the same remote "learning" issue. Says it learned it but just doesn't work. For me it's only the Pause button/code, which is highly annoying to need the OEM remote just for that which is used most!

Anyone see a fix / work around on this?

BTW I've been a few weeks without looking at this thread there's a Aug firmware? Going to have to check oppos site to see if I need that. I have a first week release model/unit.

If you're interested, there is an R4 anamorphic version that has a stunning transfer of the same director's cut as the Criterion version.You know... now that I've made my OPPO region-free, this is an option. Wow, thanks for the tip!

You know... now that I've made my OPPO region-free, this is an option. Wow, thanks for the tip!

DVD Compare (http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=68) is now your friend...

I'm glade to hear someone else is having the same remote "learning" issue.

Anyone see a fix / work around on this?

Are you sure you have not run out of storage space?

I have had no issues programming my receiver remote, until I run out of memory space.

Update: did some research using Google. Apparently word is, a lot of these foreign "anamorphic" releases of Armageddon are fake-anamorphic and simply used the non-anamorphic widescreen and zoomed that for a new master. Which means it's no different than if you used the zoom on your display to zoom the letterboxed USA non-anamorphic release.

Not sure how valid these claims are, but there are too many in too many different forums to just dismiss offhand.

[/offtopic]

I'm glade to hear someone else is having the same remote "learning" issue. Says it learned it but just doesn't work. For me it's only the Pause button/code, which is highly annoying to need the OEM remote just for that which is used most!"I was eventually able to get [Pause] to learn. As well as all other buttons other than [Info] eventually with enough tries. Just keep at it.

Not sure what it is about OPPO remote IR patterns that are so hard for learning remotes to pick up and duplicate.

Not sure what it is about OPPO remote IR patterns that are so hard for learning remotes to pick up and duplicate. "...so hard for learning remotes", is a sweeping generalisation. My $14.99 Sony remote learned all of the functions perfectly, with no trouble at all, and no repeats required.

Gary

Actually, the audio is lagging behind the video - meaning I can see their mouth move about 2 seconds before th audio kicks in. In addition to Neuromancer's comments, some of the Onkyo/Integra receivers had serious lip-sync problems until new firmware was released that supposedly fixes it.

If audio is lagging behind the video, it is definitely not a player problem.

Gary

My $14.99 Sony remote learned all of the functions perfectly, with no trouble at all, and no repeats required.Go figure. And my $100 URC RF30 struggled with some codes. And Beaker1024's remote too. *shrug*

Not trying to say 100% of 983 owners will have problems, but of the dozen or so devices I've trained into my RF30, the OPPO 983 is the first to give me these troubles. And apparently I'm not alone.

DVD Compare (http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=68) is now your friend...

It's a great site and they are usually reliable, but in this case they are dead-wrong. The Criterion, which I also own, is non-anamorphic and the difference in the image when compared to the R4 anamorphic is no contest. There is no way you could call the two different versions a draw.

Additionally, only the UK CE and the AU CE have the director's cut in an anamorphic transfer.

-Toonces

Others, like Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, almost go too grainy, like artificial detail/noise was being added (which, I guess, is true).

...Included power cord is way too fat for what it needs to carry for amps The 983 doesn't add artificial detail/noise. Some movies intentionally (or unintentionally) have more film grain. The last Bond movie was the worst case I've seen in years, and it was a result of "artistic intent" - it looked the same at the theater. The Faroudja players, like the RP-82, soften the image a little, but that's also why you see less grain.

As for the power cord, the audiophiles like to see beefy cords for some reason. Some even go as far as to replace the cord with one sporting silver conductors, because they say they can hear a difference.

Gary

Not really. I like the movie so much that I went and bought it on BR thinking it would look that much better. Well, it doesn't look BAD. It's just that the Superbit looks so good, that there really isn't that much improvement.:rolleyes:
Of course my display is 720p native, so if you've got a good 1080p display to watch, then your results may differ.
Please post what you find out.
:)

I did the 5th. element comparison: superbit/983 vs. BD/PS3 and I have to agree. You have to look pretty hard to see much of a difference. The color purity on the BD sometimes is a bit better and somewhat less noise here and there. But it takes a very careful effort in trying as best as possible to freeze the same frame on both players to see it. In normal play mode it gets quite hard to see a difference.

That being said there are other titles I have compared. All of these DVD's were non-superbit. Again using the freeze frame method
some of these other discs did show significant differences. The last one I viewed and compared was Gibson's "The Patriot". That one showed obviously better pq from the BD.

Then there are other DVD's that were poorly mastered originally and improved upon for the BD release.

The best example I've found is the wonderful sports film "Hoosiers". One of the crappiest looking DVD's in my collection. The BD is much superior, but compared to the best BD's it is still found wanting.

My screen is 133" diagonal. My pj is a 720p model. I sit just a bit closer to the screen than smpte standard.

A good transfer with the 983 rocks.

Now how would the game play out with a 1080p pj?

There is that holiday coming in just over 4 months, maybe I'll find out :)

Joe

It's a great site and they are usually reliable, but in this case they are dead-wrong. The Criterion, which I also own, is non-anamorphic and the difference in the image when compared to the R4 anamorphic is no contest. There is no way you could call the two different versions a draw.

Additionally, only the UK CE and the AU CE have the director's cut in an anamorphic transfer.

-Toonces

There is a propensity, on some sites, to cut Criterion alot of slack, simply because they are 'Criterion' don't you think? The difference is plain to see in the Beaver's screencaps - it's not a title I own, however.

Apologies for going OT.

But it takes a very careful effort in trying as best as possible to freeze the same frame on both players to see it.

Note that deinterlacing does not occur when paused on the 983.

-Bill

"...so hard for learning remotes", is a sweeping generalisation. My $14.99 Sony remote learned all of the functions perfectly, with no trouble at all, and no repeats required.

Gary

Gary,

Don't you know the rule? AVS senior members are not allowed to use $15 remotes :)

Seriously though, like most I've been through many remotes over the years. Two newest ones are a Pronto and a Harmony 880. Have experienced all the usual code learning annoyances. Fluorescent lamp / bright sunlight interference, distance between devices etc. There have been occasions where I had to teach a command to one learning remote and transfer that to another.

I've taught the oppo codes to at least 4 different remotes. No problems.

Funny thing, the remote I keep coming back to is a 10-12 year old Marantz RC2000 MKII. Back when TJN of Stereophile dubbed it "The remote of the God's". Still works for my needs.

Joe

...But it takes a very careful effort in trying as best as possible to freeze the same frame on both players to see it. In normal play mode it gets quite hard to see a difference. As Bill already noted, as soon as you pause a DVD, you lose some of the image detail, due to the interlaced datastream. Blu-ray looks better when paused, because the datastream is progressive. So the best way to compare them is during playback, but that's obviously very difficult to do in moving scenes.

Gary

Note that deinterlacing does not occur when paused on the 983.

-Bill

Thanks. had not thought about that.

Gary,

Don't you know the rule? AVS senior members are not allowed to use $15 remotes :) Sheepish grin!

Gary

I'm glade to hear someone else is having the same remote "learning" issue. Says it learned it but just doesn't work. For me it's only the Pause button/code, which is highly annoying to need the OEM remote just for that which is used most!

Anyone see a fix / work around on this?
I can't explain why your remote is having a hard time with that one code. If it is a remote that supports computer programming, you could get a file online somewhere with the code already learned. Otherwise, I've got a funny little anecdote that may be if interest to you...

When I was beta testing the 980H, I ran into a curious problem: they had added separate "play" and "pause" buttons (rather than the combined "play/pause" found on their previous players) via a firmware update, but I hadn't gotten an updated remote yet. Thus, it was simply impossible for me to learn the new pause command to my MX-700. Simple solution was to set "Alt RC Code" on and use a Toshiba DVD player code on whatever universal remote was handy, at which point I found that the code for that Toshiba player's "pause" command worked just fine. I learned that to my MX-700 and used it for several days before receiving a new remote.

As Bill already noted, as soon as you pause a DVD, you lose some of the image detail, due to the interlaced datastream. Blu-ray looks better when paused, because the datastream is progressive. So the best way to compare them is during playback, but that's obviously very difficult to do in moving scenes.

Gary

Thanks guys,

Yep that was dumb. Senior moment?

Joe

Thanks guys,

Yep that was dumb.

Well, it could be otherwise. Some players will show a progressive image during pause, but the 983 doesn't.

I don't know if it is possible to take a screen shot of a moving image. My own brief attempts gave dismal results.

Senior moment?

My motto: "Remind me to do something about this alzheimers."

-Bill

Note that deinterlacing does not occur when paused on the 983.

-Bill

What about if you use the 'slow' (1/16) button...... does it deinterlace then or is it that same as pause I wonder?

Thanks for all the response on tips for the remote learning issue. I'll give them a try when I get time.

I'm trying to get it to learn to my Pio Elite 45tx AVR remote which I use for everything but the HD DVR control (don't want to wear out my favorite Pio Elite reciever and it have to map a A, B, C DVR functions, etc.)

Thank you all for your responses. I went to the Oppo web site and downloaded the firmware upgrade and it took care of the picture dropping out. The player works perfectly and and the picture and sound are fantastic. Oppo deserves to sell a million of these players!

*questions on the multichannel audio outs and internal audio decoding abilities*

i just had some questions on the oppo 983h wich i will be getting. i can see from rear panel pics it has two sets of analog audio outputs (2-channel and 5.1/7.1 configurable multichannel). I read that it supports Dolby Digital and DTS pass-through (built-in Dolby Digital EX and DTS decoders for up to 7.1 channel direct output). But the receiver i have is a 5.1, My question is can i use the oppo to do the dolby digital/DTS 5.1 internal decoding and send that to the multichannel outputs ( set to 5.1 mode ) and then pass that to the receivers multichannel 5.1 input ?? or does the player not decode DD/DTS properly and just mixes then...

i just want :

DVD w/ DTS 5.1 sound track --> oppo 983H --> internally decoded --> multichannel audio output (set to 5.1) --> 5.1 receiver --> speakers

would it i get the original DTS track that way or would it not work. Also i would love confirmation that this player can internaly decode DD/DTS 5.1 properly and send it to the multichannel analogue outs., i do not want it mixed to 7.1 i want it the same 5.1 as on the disc ( i realize it would now be in analogue ).

- Regards Marty.

*questions on the multichannel audio outs and internal audio decoding abilities*

i just want :

DVD w/ DTS 5.1 sound track --> oppo 983H --> internally decoded --> multichannel audio output (set to 5.1) --> 5.1 receiver --> speakers

would it i get the original DTS track that way or would it not work. Also i would love confirmation that this player can internaly decode DD/DTS 5.1 properly and send it to the multichannel analogue outs., i do not want it mixed to 7.1 i want it the same 5.1 as on the disc ( i realize it would now be in analogue ).

- Regards Marty.

Yes that will work, the 983 can perform DD and DTS decoding onboard and send it out via multi-channel analogue outs.

There is a setting in the menu for 5.1 or 7.1.

I currently have it set-up in this manner using 5.1 analogue outputs into two Yamaha amps(listening to multi-channel SACD right now, sounds great :) ) DD and DTS soundtracks also work fine with this config.

Cheers

Black

What about if you use the 'slow' (1/16) button...... does it deinterlace then or is it that same as pause I wonder?

I hadn't thought of that. It would be worth an experiment...

-Bill

I don't know if it is possible to take a screen shot of a moving image. My own brief attempts gave dismal results.

Perhaps your TV has a "still or freeze" screen? Works good for me.

Yes that will work, the 983 can perform DD and DTS decoding onboard and send it out via multi-channel analogue outs.

There is a setting in the menu for 5.1 or 7.1.

I currently have it set-up in this manner using 5.1 analogue outputs into two Yamaha amps(listening to multi-channel SACD right now, sounds great :) ) DD and DTS soundtracks also work fine with this config.

Cheers

Black

cool, thanks for confirming.

I recently purchased a 983 and have been checking it against the VRS disk and have noticed some odd behavior I'm hoping another owner can verify. When I load the VRS disk and choose the Image Cropping test under Static Patterns - Geometry, if I let it sit for a while (more than 10 sec) I see a screen redraw for each cycle. Does anyone else see this behavior?
TIA...

I recently purchased a 983 and have been checking it against the VRS disk and have noticed some odd behavior I'm hoping another owner can verify. When I load the VRS disk and choose the Image Cropping test under Static Patterns - Geometry, if I let it sit for a while (more than 10 sec) I see a screen redraw for each cycle. Does anyone else see this behavior?
TIA...

Yes that is standard behaviour, the "Image cropping" test is a still image on a 10 sec loop, so every 10 sec the player returns to the start of the test therefore redrawing the image.

Cheers - Black

Thanks for the reply, Black. I have another player that I was testing against that does not do this - it maintains the image without the redraw when the recycle occurs. I actually first noticed this effect on the 983 with a regular DVD where menu items kept popping on refresh - hadn't seen this before.
Thanks again.

cool, thanks for confirming.

I have the same 5.1 analog configuration into Yamaha DSP-a1. Works for Redbook CDs, DTS CDs (including multichannel), DVD-A and SACD.

I have the same 5.1 analog configuration into Yamaha DSP-a1. Works for Redbook CDs, DTS CDs (including multichannel), DVD-A and SACD.

what about dvds, what do you use for them ? multichannel as well ? or coax/opitcal.

I´ve just received my new DV-983h and when I looked inside the player I discovered an ABT2010 chip and no ABT102-ABT1018 combo. Frankly, I expected the ABT102-ABT1018 combo cause this is the version that everybody has tested and tried with such PQ sucess. I am a bit upset cause in the oppo website they advertised the use of the 102-1018 combo and I have received an unit that uses different components than the advertised. Maybe the player it´s better with the ABT2010, maybe worst or maybe just the same, the fact it´s that I don´t know for sure. I just thought I purchased the version that was advertised and everybody tried and tested with such sucess and I´ve received a different product.
(Sorry about my English grammar)

I´ve just received my new DV-983h and when I looked inside the player I discovered an ABT2010 chip and no ABT102-ABT1018 combo. Frankly, I expected the ABT102-ABT1018 combo cause this is the version that everybody has tested and tried with such PQ sucess. I am a bit upset cause in the oppo website they advertised the use of the 102-1018 combo and I have received an unit that uses different components than the advertised. Maybe the player it´s better with the ABT2010, maybe worst or maybe just the same, the fact it´s that I don´t know for sure. I just thought I purchased the version that was advertised and everybody tried and tested with such sucess and I´ve received a different product.
(Sorry about my English grammar)

Ill trade ya... The 2010 is their brand new chip. Its the core of the DVDO Edge video processor (MSPR $799).

I expect that the Oppo BluRay player will be based on this chip.

I´ve just received my new DV-983h and when I looked inside the player I discovered an ABT2010 chip and no ABT102-ABT1018 combo. Frankly, I expected the ABT102-ABT1018 combo cause this is the version that everybody has tested and tried with such PQ sucess. I am a bit upset cause in the oppo website they advertised the use of the 102-1018 combo and I have received an unit that uses different components than the advertised. Maybe the player it´s better with the ABT2010, maybe worst or maybe just the same, the fact it´s that I don´t know for sure. I just thought I purchased the version that was advertised and everybody tried and tested with such sucess and I´ve received a different product.
(Sorry about my English grammar)

prove it... pictures please

Son of a gun! I just got a 983H, and sure enough, mine has a ABT2010 too. Notice the chips on the video board are laid out differently than earlier versions as well. My Silcon Image chip is SiL9030CTU. Is that SiL chip the same as older 983H's?

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z36/BeatCrazy/IMG_2164.jpg
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z36/BeatCrazy/IMG_2165.jpg
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z36/BeatCrazy/IMG_2166.jpg

Here it is

(in Cuban accent ->) Oppo, you got some splanin to do... :D.

what about dvds, what do you use for them ? multichannel as well ? or coax/opitcal.

No coax/optical - i use multichannel analog for DVDs as well.

It looks there was a change from the V2.02 board (which is what I've got a picture of in my 983H review - see the picture below) and the V2.03$ board seen in the newer pictures. The Silicon Optics chip seems unchanged (mine's also an SIL9030CTU), for what it's worth.

http://www.prillaman.net/image/oppo983_int04a.jpg

Very interesting...

(in Cuban accent ->) Oppo, you got some splanin to do... :D.

I just received my 983 a few weeks ago, but I'm not taking it apart to see which chipset it has.

What serial # is the cut-off?

Is the 2010; better? worse? about the same just cheaper?

It looks there was a change from the V2.02 board (which is what I've got a picture of in my 983H review - see the picture below) and the V2.03$ board seen in the newer pictures. The Silicon Optics chip seems unchanged (mine's also an SIL9030CTU), for what it's worth.

Very interesting...

Gonk, great review BTW. I used your internal pics to get a reference for what I should be looking for.

What is most perplexing is how Oppo will adjust firmware releases for what are certainly two different video boards. I got my player a couple of days ago, but only tested it with my bedroom Sharp 42" 1080p model in Dot-by-Dot mode. It aced my HQV disc, and all patterns on the VRS test disc. The only scenes it wasn't absolutely perfect on where those "torture" clips on the VRS disc with the guys climbing up the ship and similar scenes. There were still jaggies. It will be a few more days until I hook it up to my Pioneer 151FD for real testing. I'll be sure to check out what is the best sharpness setting, and how well the NR works.

I just received my 983 a few weeks ago, but I'm not taking it apart to see which chipset it has.

What serial # is the cut-off?

Is the 2010; better? worse? about the same just cheaper?

It doesn't appear Oppo follows a traditional sequencing for serial numbers. It only takes 7 screws and about 20 seconds to pop the top. Little chance of breaking anything.

Ill trade ya... The 2010 is their brand new chip. Its the core of the DVDO Edge video processor (MSPR $799).

I expect that the Oppo BluRay player will be based on this chip.

Does this also mean we can expect the 48 or 72 Hz refresh rate soon from the Oppo with a simple firmare update. The new chip's RightRate™ feature should make it a snap, no more excuses of the missing expensive external pll.

Earlier today, I ordered the DV-983 from amazon.com. Do you think it will have the ABT2010?

Does this also mean we can expect the 48 or 72 Hz refresh rate soon from the Oppo with a simple firmare update. The new chip's RightRate™ feature should make it a snap, no more excuses of the missing expensive external pll.

I guess it's technically possible, but since other 983H's use the alternate 1018/102 combo, they'd have to write two different firmwares for 983H's. And with no easily visible way to identify one version from another (besides popping the top), it is doubtful Oppo will use resources to develop different performance characteristics for the same model.

Earlier today, I ordered the DV-983 from amazon.com. Do you think it will have the ABT2010?

I'd say there's a good chance. I guess Oppo made a bunch of new 983H's which accounted for the recent "flood" of better availability. Before, they were just trickling out.

FWIW, I got mine via Audioholics (free ship and 10% off :D )

Is the 2010; better? worse? about the same just cheaper?

Same. Now it is just a single chip solution.

Does this also mean we can expect the 48 or 72 Hz refresh rate soon from the Oppo with a simple firmare update.

No, as then OPPO would not be able to support older hardware.

Same reason why you will not see anything else like Noise Reduction enabled.

What is most perplexing is how Oppo will adjust firmware releases for what are certainly two different video boards.

They already have. This is why you saw in several posts people complaining about their 1080p output not working correctly until they updated to the 08-0709 Firmware.

But in terms of creating a ABT 2010 versus a ABT 1018/102 firmware revision, there is no need, as the two solutions are exactly the same in terms of performance and functionality (as designed under the original ABT 1018/102 specifications).

They already have. This is why you saw in several posts people complaining about their 1080p output not working correctly until they updated to the 08-0709 Firmware.

So the player knows which hardware it has, and would select the proper Batch DV983H-07-0619, 07-0709 or 08-0709 firmware?

No coax/optical - i use multichannel analog for DVDs as well.
Cool, with ALL due respect and that's your personal preference. By the same token it defeats the purpose of digital surround sound. I use the MCH analog for SACD's and the coax for DVD's and DTS CD's.:(

Cool, with ALL due respect and that's your personal preference. By the same token it defeats the purpose of digital surround sound. I use the MCH analog for SACD's and the coax for DVD's and DTS CD's.:(
I also use the analog connections for DVD. I didn't think I was really missing anything -- especially since the digital to analog circuitry in the 983 is maybe a little better than that in my AVR.

So the player knows which hardware it has, and would select the proper Batch DV983H-07-0619, 07-0709 or 08-0709 firmware?

No, there is only one BIN file. 07-0619 is the last build which is designed explicitly for the ABT1018/102 solutions. 07-0709 (factory) and 08-0709 (factory/website) works for both the old and new hardware, but more importantly fixes issues related to timings specific to the new hardware.

It is not like the DV-981HD where two BIN files were required.

No, there is only one BIN file. 07-0619 is the last build which is designed explicitly for the ABT1018/102 solutions. 07-0709 (factory) and 08-0709 (factory/website) works for both the old and new hardware, but more importantly fixes issues related to timings specific to the new hardware.

It is not like the DV-981HD where two BIN files were required.

Since my player came with 07-0709, should I download and burn 08-0709?

As long as you are using any of the 0709 you are fine.

No coax/optical - i use multichannel analog for DVDs as well.

ok cool, may i ask why ?? when your Yamaha DSP-a1 has both coax and optical. do you think it sounds better through the 5.1 multichannel outs ?? than coax and optical.

Same. Now it is just a single chip solution.

IIRC the ABT102 is a FPGA and the ABT2010 is an ASIC. In theory that would mean that the ABT102 is more upgradable, but I don't know if that's relevant in the case of the DV-983H.

ok cool, may i ask why ?? when your Yamaha DSP-a1 has both coax and optical. do you think it sounds better through the 5.1 multichannel outs ?? than coax and optical.

I have a DSP-A1 and have both analogue and coax connections hooked up to the Oppo; a simple A/B test shows that the Oppo has superior decoding.

Surprising but true. I wouldn't have even tried it but for this forum.

what a pitty! with the abt1020 and same functionality as before the 983 is a great player but adding a 'b' or 'Mk II' in the front and activating all the possible options.... wow! 1080p24, detail enhacement, NR, etc.
It wouldn't be the first case of a player with two different firmware lines .

I have a DSP-A1 and have both analogue and coax connections hooked up to the Oppo; a simple A/B test shows that the Oppo has superior decoding.

Surprising but true. I wouldn't have even tried it but for this forum.

thanks.

I have a DSP-A1 and have both analogue and coax connections hooked up to the Oppo; a simple A/B test shows that the Oppo has superior decoding.

Surprising but true. I wouldn't have even tried it but for this forum.
Even if the Oppo has superior decoding it doesn't mean that analog's sound is superior to digital. That is WHY digital was invented to begin with. It is like saying that LP's and cassettes have a superior sound than a CD, etc. I'm sorry I can't buy that argument.
Thank you

Even if the Oppo has superior decoding it doesn't mean that analog's sound is superior to digital. That is WHY digital was invented to begin with. It is like saying that LP's and cassettes have a superior sound than a CD, etc. I'm sorry I can't buy that argument.
Thank you

I'm not asking you to buy anything; I'm saying that, to me, it sounds better. And LPs do sound better than CDs... ;)

IIRC the ABT102 is a FPGA and the ABT2010 is an ASIC. In theory that would mean that the ABT102 is more upgradable, but I don't know if that's relevant in the case of the DV-983H.

Yes... an FPGA solution would be more 'upgradable' and possibly more 'supportable' but also... more 'expensive'....

ok cool, may i ask why ?? when your Yamaha DSP-a1 has both coax and optical. do you think it sounds better through the 5.1 multichannel outs ?? than coax and optical.

Oppo has far batter processing than Yamaha DSP-A1.

Not even close. DSP-A1 is an old model. I am pretty much using it as an amp with the Oppo doing all the external decoding.

I'm not asking you to buy anything; I'm saying that, to me, it sounds better. And LPs do sound better than CDs... ;)
Digital VS Analog, continues::rolleyes:
Live by the sword and Mr. Hodson dies by the sword:(
Technology's evolution kills ALL your theories, DUH!:cool:
When the beat goes on...

Digital VS Analog, continues::rolleyes:
Live by the sword and Mr. Hodson dies by the sword:(
Technology's evolution kills ALL your theories, DUH!:cool:
When the beat goes on...

Aside from confessing to being a little playful with the LPs comment (my Linn gathers dust...) I wish I knew what half of that meant... :D

No, as then OPPO would not be able to support older hardware.

Same reason why you will not see anything else like Noise Reduction enabled.

Too bad, that is the only reason I did not pull the trigger yet. I can't stand judder.

Digital VS Analog, continues::rolleyes:
Live by the sword and Mr. Hodson dies by the sword:(
Technology's evolution kills ALL your theories, DUH!:cool:
When the beat goes on...

Sorry, but your argument is off-point and inane to boot. All audio, at some point, becomes analog. It is not the quality of the digital bitstream that is in question here. Last time I checked, ones and zeros are pretty much ones and zeros and remain so unless there is outright signal degradation or loss. The digital to analog coversion process, which must take place at some point unless you have very special ears that can hear a bit stream of ones and zeros, is qualitatively superior in the 983H when the output is compared to what many receivers produce that also do the conversion.

-Toonces

I can't stand judder.

Unless you use a 120hz LCD with one of those "auto-smoothing motion" features, you're going to have judder at any multiple of 24fps. That is inherent in capturing so few frames per second. Blu-rays that output 24fps and have frames repeated 2:2 or even 5:5 by the display, still show judder when panning. It's just less obtrusive than the reapeated frame in 3:2 pulldown.

Unless you use a 120hz LCD with one of those "auto-smoothing motion" features, you're going to have judder at any multiple of 24fps. That is inherent in capturing so few frames per second. Blu-rays that output 24fps and have frames repeated 2:2 or even 5:5 by the display, still show judder when panning. It's just less obtrusive than the reapeated frame in 3:2 pulldown.

I do 72Hz (3:3) with front projector for SD DVDs. There is a big difference for me between 3:2 pulldown and 72Hz playback even without motion smoothing. Slow pans are just falling apart with 3:2 on the big screen.

I do 72Hz (3:3) with front projector for SD DVDs. There is a big difference for me between 3:2 pulldown and 72Hz playback even without motion smoothing. Slow pans are just falling apart with 3:2 on the big screen.


On a big screen like that, everything is more noticeable :D

What player are you using the ouput 24fps for SD DVDs? I am lucky, outputting 1080p/60 to my Pioneer Kuro also does 3:3 72hz :p

On a big screen like that, everything is more noticeable :D

What player are you using the ouput 24fps for SD DVDs? I am lucky, outputting 1080p/60 to my Pioneer Kuro also does 3:3 72hz :p

I use a SDI Panny (RP82) into a VP50 with HQ 3:2 and 60->24 frame rate conversion outputting 1080p24 to a 5090H (European top 9G) in Advanced mode (3:3 pulldown), result is great. The 983 with the ABT1020 "could" also do it at a fraction of the cost.

On a big screen like that, everything is more noticeable :D

What player are you using the ouput 24fps for SD DVDs? I am lucky, outputting 1080p/60 to my Pioneer Kuro also does 3:3 72hz :p

I use the trusy old Bravo D1 programmed to 72Hz frame rate. So far no DVD player could beat it for film content. Hey, I even could get 96Hz out of it, but the noise from the color wheel was a bit to loud at that rate, that I started to worry about the health of the projector...

IIRC the ABT102 is a FPGA and the ABT2010 is an ASIC. In theory that would mean that the ABT102 is more upgradable, but I don't know if that's relevant in the case of the DV-983H.

The FPGA has been designed for explicitly to emulate the ABT102. It is not upgradeable.

It wouldn't be the first case of a player with two different firmware lines .

You will not see this occur. This would anger their original customers. OPPO will not do this.

Sorry, but your argument is off-point and inane to boot. All audio, at some point, becomes analog. It is not the quality of the digital bitstream that is in question here. Last time I checked, ones and zeros are pretty much ones and zeros and remain so unless there is outright signal degradation or loss. The digital to analog coversion process, which must take place at some point unless you have very special ears that can hear a bit stream of ones and zeros, is qualitatively superior in the 983H when the output is compared to what many receivers produce that also do the conversion.

-Toonces

Bingo.

All 983 owners owe it to themselves to check whether the player or the receiver (or pre/pro) does a better D/A conversion.

One should of course beware of doing too many conversions - make sure that the analog signal fed into your receiver does not get digitized again - that would defeat the whole purpose and degrade the sound.

You will not see this occur. This would f*ck over their original customers. OPPO will not do this.

Just thinking out loud, but I suppose it's possible that Oppo will use the ABT2010 in a future BD player giving it the ability to outperform - in terms of more options - the 983 when upscaling SD discs?

Bingo.

All 983 owners owe it to themselves to check whether the player or the receiver (or pre/pro) does a better D/A conversion.

One should of course beware of doing too many conversions - make sure that the analog signal fed into your receiver does not get digitized again - that would defeat the whole purpose and degrade the sound.

'Does not get digitized again' - could you explain that a little more fully wojtek?

I have contacted Oppo to ask about a replacement DV-983h player with the ABT102-1018 chipset instead the ABT2010 based 983 I´ve received and they say it´s impossible cause they have no stock of the ABT102-1018 based units. I ordered my unit based on the comments and test I read and I just want the player with the electronics (i.e. chips) that they widely state use in the DV-983h. I don´t care if the ABT2010 has the same performance or not. I just want the player with the components-specs that they publish. The fact it´s that Anchor Bay uses the ABT102-1018 in some of their top of the line video processors and the 2010 in just their new entry level electronics. At the end I don´t want problems, I just want to receive the player that I payed for and that´s the player I saw publicited at their webpage using ABT102 and ABT1018 and not a lower cost parts.

I hope you understand I´m a bit upset to receive something different and for not to accept the "it´s a similar-equivalent thing" argument. As stated in several pages of their website Oppo not just shows pride of the use of the VRS technology in the 983 but clearly stated too about the use of the 102-1018 chips only used in a few state of the art players and video processors around the world.

At the end I don´t want problems, I just want to receive the player that I payed for and that´s the player I saw publicited at their webpage using ABT102 and ABT1018 and not a lower cost parts.


Where does it say on the Oppo website that the 983H uses (used) the ABT102+ABT1018 combo?

Where does it say on the Oppo website that the 983H uses (used) the ABT102+ABT1018 combo?

A couple of times on this page (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv983h/dv983h_comp.asp) Sam. They'll have to prise my Oppo (and its ABT2010) from my cold, dead hands, BTW.

I have contacted Oppo to ask about a replacement DV-983h player with the ABT102-1018 chipset instead the ABT2010 based 983 I´ve received and they say it´s impossible cause they have no stock of the ABT102-1018 based units. I ordered my unit based on the comments and test I read and I just want the player with the electronics (i.e. chips) that they widely state use in the DV-983h. I don´t care if the ABT2010 has the same performance or not. I just want the player with the components-specs that they publish. The fact it´s that Anchor Bay uses the ABT102-1018 in some of their top of the line video processors and the 2010 in just their new entry level electronics. At the end I don´t want problems, I just want to receive the player that I payed for and that´s the player I saw publicited at their webpage using ABT102 and ABT1018 and not a lower cost parts.

I hope you understand I´m a bit upset to receive something different and for not to accept the "it´s a similar-equivalent thing" argument. As stated in several pages of their website Oppo not just shows pride of the use of the VRS technology in the 983 but clearly stated too about the use of the 102-1018 chips only used in a few state of the art players and video processors around the world.

The 2010 is not an 'entry level' component.... Its their top-of-the-line. Its actually the same as the 102-1018 plus a bunch more... however, the 'bunch more' wont be enabled in Oppo's implementation. ABT has created a single package with the function of both chips inbedded into one. The fact that its an ASIC instead of an FPGA is a good thing from my view.

You might PM JOSH@DVDO and he can be more specific and perhaps set your mind at ease.

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/semiconductors/abt2010.php

Pics and texts taken from Oppo webpage


http://oppodigital.com/dv983h/images/dv_983h_abtboard.jpg
Two "VRS by Anchor Bay" chipsets are detailed in this photo. The ABT102 chipset (ABT algorithm implemented on a Xilinx SPARTAN XC3S2000-5FG456C FPGA and XCF08PVO48C Platform Flash) is mainly in charge of de-interlacing standard definition video. It provides AutoCUE-C™, Progressive Cadence Detection™, and Precision De-interlacing™ features for the DV-983H. The ABT1018 chip is mainly in charge of video scaling. It provides Precision Video Scaling™, frame rate conversion, aspect ratio control and video zooming features for the DV-983H. These technologies combine to generate a clearer, smoother, and true-to-life picture free of artifacts.

Advanced video processing featuring "VRS™ by Anchor Bay" technologies

With the DV-983H, OPPO has incorporated Anchor Bay's latest VRS (Video Reference Series) technology. An ABT102 chipset provides AutoCUE-C™, Progressive Cadence Detection™, and Precision De-interlacing™. An ABT1018 chip handles Precision Video Scaling™, frame rate conversion, aspect ratio control and video zooming. These technologies combine to generate a clearer, smoother, and true-to-life picture free of artifacts.

Q: What features of the "VRS by Anchor Bay" video processing technology are utilized by the DV-983H?


A: The OPPO DV-983H Universal DVD Player utilizes two "VRS by Anchor Bay" chipsets. The ABT102 chipset is mainly in charge of de-interlacing standard definition video. It provides AutoCUE-C™, Progressive Cadence Detection™, and Precision De-interlacing™ features for the DV-983H. The ABT1018 chip is mainly in charge of video scaling. It provides Precision Video Scaling™, frame rate conversion, aspect ratio control and video zooming features for the DV-983H. These technologies combine to generate a clearer, smoother, and true-to-life picture free of artifacts.

*VRS, the "VRS by Anchor Bay" logo, and other associated product names are trademarks of Anchor Bay Technologies, Inc. and are used under license.

As stated in several pages of their website Oppo not just shows pride of the use of the VRS technology in the 983 but clearly stated too about the use of the 102-1018 chips only used in a few state of the art players and video processors around the world.

OPPO had to differentiate the two chipsets in their literature, as mentioning the two chipsets was instrumental in explaining why the DV-983H was better than any other solution on the market, even over other ABT solutions.

The reason for this some DVD/HD DVD players used the ABT1018 solution. This solution was scaling only.

The true benefit of the DV-983H is the integration of the ABT102 (de-interlacing) and ABT1018 (scaling). This is why the OPPO literature extols the importance of two separate solutions. There was no ABT2010 when the player was originally designed and released.

The ABT2010 is the same exact performance but in a single chip solution. There is no difference in way OPPO has implemented the solution. As others have noted, the ABT2010 actually has more features than the ABT102/1018 solution.

EDIT: I would also note that on OPPO's main website at the bottom of all their pages, under the "Features & Specifications" tab for their products, as well as the DVD Player's User Manual (Page 61 under "Specifications"), OPPO notes:
"Design and specifications are subject to change without notice."

A couple of times on this page (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv983h/dv983h_comp.asp) Sam. They'll have to prise my Oppo (and its ABT2010) from my cold, dead hands, BTW.


Thanks. Either one is fine by me.

EDIT: I would also note that on OPPO's main website at the bottom of all their pages, as well as the "SPECIFICATIONS" tab for their products, they note "Design and specifications are subject to change without notice."


I think that usual disclaimer that many uses has it´s ethic limits. I think that publicitate in several parts of the Oppo webpage (with pics of the chips indeed) the use of some very clearly defined and stated parts and then change the internal layout, parts, etc and not update his adverts is not fair to the customers that think they are buying some particular product that uses some very defined parts. I just want the product I thought I was buying, that´s all, not flames here.

P.S.: Maybe the new 983 it´s better, maybe equal. The fact it´s I don´t know for sure unless I have both products to compare. I just want the product that I thought I was buying. It would be not the first time that an "update" or "some kind of integration" of a technology or circuits brings poorer or not the expected performance.

I think that usual disclaimer that many uses has it´s ethic limits. I think that publicitate in several parts of the Oppo webpage (with pics of the chips indeed) the use of some very clearly defined and stated parts and then change the internal layout, parts, etc and not update his adverts is not fair to the customers that think they are buying some particular product that uses some very defined parts. I just want the product I thought I was buying, that´s all, not flames here.

This argument is only viable if the changes to the player has reduced or altered the performance of the player, either negatively or positively. OPPO is simply moving to another solution which offers the exacter performance of the dual ABT102/1018 solution. OPPO is not reducing the quality of the player, nor are they removing any of the features of the player. In terms of performance, the new ABT2010 and the ABT102/1018 combination is identical.

I have been using both units at home for the past two months and have not seen any difference in product performance.

No, there is only one BIN file. 07-0619 is the last build which is designed explicitly for the ABT1018/102 solutions. 07-0709 (factory) and 08-0709 (factory/website) works for both the old and new hardware, but more importantly fixes issues related to timings specific to the new hardware.

It is not like the DV-981HD where two BIN files were required.

Is this a way of knowing which hardware is in your machine, without removing the top cover? Should I imply that if the batch showed on the screen is 08-0709, then it has the 2010 chip?

Just curious, there is really nothing to complain about my 983.

The version number for the firmware does not denote new hardware, especially since OPPO has a history of updating all players before they are shipped.

You will not see this occur. This would anger their other customers. OPPO will not do this.

Hmmm, surmise this...

Oppo offers to upgrade the 983 with new features. Those customers with the newer units will receive a simple upgrade via firmware. The older customers will receive a hardware modification to implant the new chip.
All customers who would like to receive the upgrade will have to ship their unit to Oppo for modification. The price for the upgrade is $50.
Please?:D;):D

There are several problems with this:

Logistics in terms of identifying the players which have the newer chipsets and those that do not. OPPO may have a way by checking serial numbers, but who really knows without popping the top.

Logistics in terms of return shipping to and from the customer. Domestically this is fairly easy as they can send out return shipping labels, while international customers will have to fit a fairly sizable shipping fee.

Logistics to ensure that all customers receive the upgrade. You do not want to have some customers with the upgrades and others without. This would be unfair to the less tech or information savy users.

Logistics in terms of repair servicing time (labor, testing, and return shipping).

Additional: You are treating their previous customers as "Beta Testers" and charging them to implement extra functionality which new customers get out of box. Unless you start charging new customers $50 more, this is an unfair service.

You are splitting hairs. OPPO is not reducing the quality of the player, nor are they removing any of the features of the player. The performance is identical.

I have been using both units at home for the past two months and have not seen any difference in product performance.

Sorry, I don´t understand the meaning of "You are splitting hairs". English is not my native language as you have noticed for sure.
As for "the performance is identical" please understand I just don´t know for sure at this point. Are you affiliated with Oppo to state that "OPPO is not reducing the quality of the player, nor are they removing any of the features of the player"? If so please understand I take your subjective comments about the new Oppo with some caveats. If not affiliated then I respectfully think you can´t make such statements about Oppo.

Please, just take note the only thing I want is to receive the player with the charatcteristics-components I thought I was buying. If I read at their wbepage that Oppo has changed the layout or chips in the 983 I would just not purchased the new player until I see several feedback from users and reviewers to have a wider impression of the update goods or cons.
Please, understand my position. I think it´s fair and easy to understand.

Hmmm, surmise this...

Oppo offers to upgrade the 983 with new features. Those customers with the newer units will receive a simple upgrade via firmware. The older customers will receive a hardware modification to implant the new chip.
All customers who would like to receive the upgrade will have to ship their unit to Oppo for modification. The price for the upgrade is $50.
Please?:D;):D

As long as everybody paid the 50 then i would see that as workable. Im afraid Oppo would lose their shirt with such a plan though....

I suspect their path will be a bluray player based on 2010 that turns on all the bells and whistles for SD and BD. Ill write the check today! :D

Sorry, I don´t understand the meaning of "You are splitting hairs". English is not my native language as you have noticed for sure.
As for "the performance is identical" please understand I just don´t know for sure at this point. Are you affiliated with Oppo to state that "OPPO is not reducing the quality of the player, nor are they removing any of the features of the player"? If so please understand I take your subjective comments about the new Oppo with some caveats. If not affiliated then I respectfully think you can´t make such statements about Oppo.

Please, just take note the only thing I want is to receive the player with the charatcteristics-components I thought I was buying. If I read at their wbepage that Oppo has changed the layout or chips in the 983 I would just not purchased the new player until I see several feedback from users and reviewers to have a wider impression of the update goods or cons.
Please, understand my position. I think it´s fair and easy to understand.

I believe we all understand your position... and you are certainly within your rights to return the player and wait. What we are trying to tell you is that you have nothing to worry about. The 2010 is simply an integration of the two chip solution into one (with other goodies added but not enabled). You can choose to believe us or not... totally up to you... :D

Please, understand my position. I think it´s fair and easy to understand.

I see one of two things happening; Oppo somehow finds you a player with the old chipset or you return your 983 and get a refund.

Having seen what it's capable of, would you honestly do without it now?

Sorry, I don´t understand the meaning of "You are splitting hairs". English is not my native language as you have noticed for sure.

"To split hairs" is an English idiom (phrase) which means that you are concentrating on tiny, unimportant detail to find fault with something, where this is no actual fault. In this case, it is the change to the ABT2010 from the ABT102/1018 which is causing concern. The change is not a real concern, as there is no associable difference between the performance of the two solutions.

As for "the performance is identical" please understand I just don´t know for sure at this point. Are you affiliated with Oppo to state that "OPPO is not reducing the quality of the player, nor are they removing any of the features of the player"?

I quantified this statement by saying that I have been personally using both the ABT2010 and ABT102/1018 powered players simultaneously the past two months without any difference in performance perceived. OPPO has implemented the natural progression of the ABT VRS solution by using the updated single chip ABT2010 solution.

If not affiliated then I respectfully think you can´t make such statements about Oppo.

OPPO has said the same statements as me. Additionally, this is a complete contradiction of what you say further:
"If I read at their wbepage that Oppo has changed the layout or chips in the 983 I would just not purchased the new player until I see several feedback from users and reviewers to have a wider impression of the update goods or cons."
I am a user giving you feedback and yet you are completely dismissing my observations on the performance of the player.

I have been using the DV-983H since August of 2007. I have more experience with this player than anyone here, and I can say with authority that there is no difference between the ABT102/1018 and the ABT2010.

I have contacted Oppo to ask about a replacement DV-983h player with the ABT102-1018 chipset instead the ABT2010 based 983 I´ve received and they say it´s impossible cause they have no stock of the ABT102-1018 based units. I ordered my unit based on the comments and test I read and I just want the player with the electronics (i.e. chips) that they widely state use in the DV-983h. I don´t care if the ABT2010 has the same performance or not. I just want the player with the components-specs that they publish. The fact it´s that Anchor Bay uses the ABT102-1018 in some of their top of the line video processors and the 2010 in just their new entry level electronics. At the end I don´t want problems, I just want to receive the player that I payed for and that´s the player I saw publicited at their webpage using ABT102 and ABT1018 and not a lower cost parts.

I hope you understand I´m a bit upset to receive something different and for not to accept the "it´s a similar-equivalent thing" argument. As stated in several pages of their website Oppo not just shows pride of the use of the VRS technology in the 983 but clearly stated too about the use of the 102-1018 chips only used in a few state of the art players and video processors around the world.
I can't believe what I'm reading...

You don't care that the 2010 is THE top of the line processer from ABT?! The 1018/102 solution outdated now. No wonder Oppo were having issues keep up with demand.

I can't believe you are seriously upset about getting an even better product that it was when it started out.

I would just not purchased[/COLOR] the new player until I see several feedback from users and reviewers to have a wider impression of the update goods or cons."
I am a user giving you feedback and yet you are completely dismissing my observations on the performance of the player.

Mmmm...I don´t see any contradiction here. I´m just saying I would not buy a revision of the player until a see several feedback from users and reviewers to have a wider impression of the new player. I don´t say your opinion it´s invalid for me but frankly it seems to me (maybe I´m wrong) you are very partial to Oppo products...maybe like me! this is my second Oppo player (I owned a 981 for the last year). I just want many more feedback from seveal sides, just like the original 983.

By the way a full refund would be a logical step but Oppo doesn´t take care of my customs taxes expenses. At the end all these problems has not been placed if I saw at their webpage the right info cause simply I would choose to wait for some time to know more about the new revision.

I can't believe what I'm reading...

You don't care that the 2010 is THE top of the line processer from ABT?! The 1018/102 solution outdated now. No wonder Oppo were having issues keep up with demand.

I can't believe you are seriously upset about getting an even better product that it was when it started out.

I´m just a firm believer of "not always newer products are better". I just want something subjectivetely tested and tried several times from several sides...not just "better" based on specs.

By the way a full refund would be a logical step but Oppo doesn´t take care of my customs taxes expenses.

Customs charges, are, I'm afraid, wholly the customers responsibility. You go the refund route, you will not, and should not expect, to get that refunded.

At the end of the day, it's your choice. But you are, IMHO, making a wrong headed decision.

Since the change involves replacing an entire board (the HDMI board was revised to support this, based on pictures, so it's far from a simple chip drop-in) and since the chips on the old board contain a significant share of the player's hardware cost (as I recall from some earlier Neuromancer posts, the XIlinx chip by itself costs in the neighborhood of $75 to $90 if you wanted to go pick one up), the real costs (no profit) required to change an "old" 983H to a "new" 983H would appear to be likely to come perilously close to the cost of a 983H - or at least a 980H or 981HD.

First, you've got the old board and chips that are being replaced outright are are likely difficult to recoup any costs from, so somebody (presumably the customer) would need to absorb the entire cost of that board and its components. Even without any profit for anyone, that's goign to be a not insignificant cost (SWAG: $150+?). Then you have to have someone open the case, unhook and remove the old board, install and hook up the new board, close the case, and test the player to make sure everything works. Then you have to pack the player back up and ship it. And when you are done, you have a player that is basically the same as it was before - except for a single-chip solution replacing two chips from before.

Personally, I wouldn't want to go through the whole mess. I like my 983H as it is.
Please, just take note the only thing I want is to receive the player with the charatcteristics-components I thought I was buying. If I read at their wbepage that Oppo has changed the layout or chips in the 983 I would just not purchased the new player until I see several feedback from users and reviewers to have a wider impression of the update goods or cons.
Please, understand my position. I think it´s fair and easy to understand.
I understand the concern you are raising. The flip side is that ABT developed the chip found in your 983H player specifically to do what the two chips in my older 983H player also do, and OPPO has done testing on it (see comments by Neuromancer, who routinely works closely with them on beta testing) and found it to do just what it is supposed to do.

When a company makes a change like this (and it happens more than you might think, albeit not necessarily in as easily identified a manner), they have to go all the way with it. Heck, it's very possible that this change was an important step in getting past the supply bottlenecks they'd been experiencing ever since the player launched in March. If that were the case, deciding to not make the change might have meant that you'd still be near the tail end of a month-long waiting list for a player. Even if that isn't the case, though, a change like this has to be done without playing favorites. If they honor one person's request for a trade they would have to honor everyone's, and that's a recipe for disaster. You would prefer to have a player using the old v2.02 HDMI board, but there could just as easily be half a dozen people with v2.02 boards who decide they want a v2.03 board because it's newer and might be better in some way.

I'm afraid we're facing a hard truth: you have a player with the characteristics you thought you were buying even if the specific hardware differs from what was sold earlier this year, and OPPO can stand by their industry-standard disclaimer to cover the change. On the other hand, you also have an excellent player - and you have the option of returning the unit currently in your possession and waiting a few months to see if the concensus remains in agreement that the v2.03 board performs the same as the v2.02 board. That's a choice that only you can make. Personally, I wouldn't care which version I had, but that comes from some experience that you lack the benefit of (I trust OPPO to do right by their customers, and I trust Neuromancer to be picky about player performance). If you can't bring yourself to feel comfortable with the v2.03 board, all it takes is a phone call and you can return it. I'd suggest spending some time with the player first, though, as you have 30 days to make that decision.

I have been using the DV-983H since August of 2007.So how's that OPPO Blu-Ray player working out for you? ;)

Just kidding...

...not really.

This news about Toshiba releasing a new "extended detail enhancement" upconverting DVD player is interesting. Model XD-E500.

The unit will offer 3 modes: Sharp, color and contrast. Early reports indicate that Sharp introduces "smart" EE. Another report states that color and contrast modes "blows out the picture".

Just what the world needs, added EE (gee not enough already on some discs) and the ability to destroy careful calibration settings.

Can't wait for the reviewers to get their hands on this product.

A prediction: oppo will get a ton of free advertising by way of comparison and the end result is that they will have to ramp up production of the 983. :)

Joe

So how's that OPPO Blu-Ray player working out for you? ;)

Just kidding...

...not really.

:D LOL :D
He ain't gonna say nutin... NDA:(

There are several problems with this:

Logistics in terms of identifying the players which have the newer chipsets and those that do not. OPPO may have a way by checking serial numbers, but who really knows without popping the top.
No need to determine which ones are different ahead of time. EVERYONE who wants the upgrade would have to send it in. Even those with the new hardware. If you send out the fw "into the wild", someone would then get ahold of it and distribute it, thus others would then receive the upgrade without paying. Of course this may pose a problem with "future fw updates" too. Oppo would have to implement a (future) fw that would only work when based on the "NEW" fw.

Logistics in terms of return shipping to and from the customer. Domestically this is fairly easy as they can send out return shipping labels, while international customers will have to fit a fairly sizable shipping fee..
I say customer pays to ship it in, Oppo pays to return to customer. If the total cost is of such concern, then up the ante. Maybe $75 or even a $100 for the upgrade. Whatever it takes to turn this player, rated at 9 out of 10, to a player that is 10 out of 10 ;).


Logistics to ensure that all customers receive the upgrade. You do not want to have some customers with the upgrades and others without. This would be unfair to the less tech or information savy users..
If you want the upgrade the pay, if not then don't. I don't see it as unfair. Look at is as this is a newer model, and those with the older model can upgrade for a fee. Kind-of like an after market add on type deal. Some peole may not care about IE: 24fps, DSD, custom reolutions, ect...
For those peaole, they should have a choice of not upgrading if they don't want to. For those that do, pay the upgrade fee and send it in.


Logistics in terms of repair servicing time (labor, testing, and return shipping)..
This would definately be the downside. How long it would take to develope the new features and the costs involved. Hopefully it COULD be done in a timely manner by building from the testing that they've already done.


Additional: You are treating their previous customers as "Beta Testers" and charging them to implement extra functionality which new customers get out of box. Unless you start charging new customers $50 more, this is an unfair service..
I disagree. This is an opportunity for an UPGRADE. What about when they sell receivers that are upgradable? Are all those end users beta testers. This is really the world we live in now. I mean essentially, all users could be classified as beta testers because the products are always receiving fw upgrades. Oppo is a company that does try very hard to have their products up to spec before releasing to the public and I commend them for that.
New customers would not get it "out of box" unless they paid the $50 upgrade fee at purchase. It could be sold as the DV-983H for the standard performance, or as the DV-983H-2 for the new features that would cost $50 more.

:cool:

Oh, and toshiba states the the XD-E500 might have some problems playing certain DVD-R/DVD-RW discs.

New customers would not get it "out of box" unless they paid the $50 upgrade fee at purchase. It could be sold as the DV-983H for the standard performance, or as the DV-983H-2 for the new features that would cost $50 more.

:cool:

Makes me feel even better that I got my 983H "v2" for only $359 shipped ;)

At the risk of prolonging a one-sided discussion, I think Gonk's post on the last page #3626 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14470161#post14470161 sums the matter up nicely. Too bad it rolled over to the previous page.

While once again I think OPPO Digital's management could have been more pro-active, anyone familiar with modern production of commodities knows there are so-called "running changes" made all the time. A new computer spec'd with a 500 GB hard drive and manufactured last month may have a Seagate inside and the one produced last week may have a Western Digital. If they both meet the performance specs advertised, the consumer has no remedy just because he or she might prefer one brand of hard drive over another. In the case at hand the same chip manufacturer makes both. That's all my box promised. "Advanced video processing featuring 'VRS™ by Anchor Bay' technologies."

You can't tell the manufacturer how to make his product. You can hold the manufacturer accountable to deliver the performance advertised. How it is achieved is OPPO Digital's business.

Literally.

Dana

I am assuming that, even with the new ABT2010 chipset, the current analog AR issues would still be around (even with the extra features that are not implemented). I realize the ABT2010 chipset has nothing to do with the analog side.

But could this new chipset provide a possible solution to the AR issues in terms of providing a way to switch the AR controls from the ABT2010 to the Mediatek?

Also for the features that are not implemented on the ABT2010 chipset is it just a matter of choice by Oppo to not implement them? Is it a matter of 'flipping a switch' to activate them at their choice or is it technically unfeasable based on the hardware platform that the chips are installed in?

I have the older chipset but no interest in changing anything. As long as the firmware upgrades work for both chipsets then thats fine by me.

Hmmm, surmise this...

Oppo offers to upgrade the 983 with new features. Those customers with the newer units will receive a simple upgrade via firmware. The older customers will receive a hardware modification to implant the new chip.
All customers who would like to receive the upgrade will have to ship their unit to Oppo for modification. The price for the upgrade is $50.
Please?:D;):D

So I have to ask, what "upgrades" would there be? The 2010 already has PreP (which is useless since the player can't play HD sources), EE and Mosquito NR. The 983 has NR if I remember correctly, I don't think it's MNR. Anyways, it's useless. So really, all you would get is EE? Plus, the 2010 isn't uopgradeable and the 102/1018 are, correct? Oh, and the ability to upconvert to 1080p24 for the 2010 (no mention of this with the Oppo however).

Seems, if anything, the 2010 would be limited, unless my info is incorrect. (Info from ABT webpage and the DVDO Edge thread.)

Really, what else would they add anyways? Only thing I could think of is improving the 1018 chip or adding the ability to upconvert to 1080p24. (I'm quite curious about how good the 1018 is with scaling. We know the magic is in the 102. I often wonder how it would compare letting the 983 only deinterlace and then having the image scaled by say Reon/Realta processing or another standalone VP.)

Oppo already said no 1080p/24 support for SD-DVDs. It's referenced near the bottom of the first post of this thread.

Oppo already said no 1080p/24 support for SD-DVDs. It's referenced near the bottom of the first post of this thread.

Wasn't that because of the split chipset? if so it could be done now, of course only if they wanted to. Same with all other functions.

No, read the description again. It is the insertion of the external processor that does not allow for DSD over HDMI. It is not because of a dual-solution.

Oh, and toshiba states the the XD-E500 might have some problems playing certain DVD-R/DVD-RW discs.

this would not surprise me at all. i've had 3 different tosh sd players and they all had issues playing my -r discs. i had hoped that would change but maybe not.
disappointing.

At the risk of prolonging a one-sided discussion, I think Gonk's post on the last page #3626 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14470161#post14470161 sums the matter up nicely. Too bad it rolled over to the previous page.

While once again I think OPPO Digital's management could have been more pro-active, anyone familiar with modern production of commodities knows there are so-called "running changes" made all the time. A new computer spec'd with a 500 GB hard drive and manufactured last month may have a Seagate inside and the one produced last week may have a Western Digital. If they both meet the performance specs advertised, the consumer has no remedy just because he or she might prefer one brand of hard drive over another. In the case at hand the same chip manufacturer makes both. That's all my box promised. "Advanced video processing featuring 'VRS™ by Anchor Bay' technologies."

You can't tell the manufacturer how to make his product. You can hold the manufacturer accountable to deliver the performance advertised. How it is achieved is OPPO Digital's business.

Literally

Well...I´m very familiar with modern production technologies. To put very clear, Oppo advertised VERY CLEAR in every literature about the 983 they uses ABT102-ABT1018 chipset in the 983, PERIOD. This is the chipset I want to see in the product they sold to me. By the way, if I buy a computer with a 500GB/7200rpm HDD advertised the manufacturer can use today a seagate and tomorrow a samsung if both are up to specs. BUT if the manufacturer advertised a 500GB/7200rpm Seagate series 3000 (if that thing someday exists) I expect to receive a Seagate 3000 and not another series or brand. In this case the change is not only a component but a very different PCB layout too. This is the kind of changes that makes to other companies to rename as MKII a product that has suffered some significant changes to be trasnparent to the end consumer...and I think that a completely new chipset and PCB layout to accomodate it it´s a "significant change"...isn´t it???

At the end I feel a bit frustrated about the feeling I get when exposing my problem. I´m not a troll searching for problems or flames. I´m just a person that has paid some amount of money after reading and exchanging many mails with someusers around the world. I´m expected to receive a product with some very defined characteristics AND hardware and I payed for that...and I received DIFFERENT hardware. I can try now and see if fits with my expectation of PQ etc etc but the fact it´s if I knew at that point the newer 983 not longer would use the ABT102-1018 I WOULDN´T BUY the player. Based on the comments that Neuromancer has the new version for at less two months makes me clearly thinks Oppo knew several weeks ago there would be no more 102-1018 based 983 players so through the last weeks they have updated their webpage with the latest reviews based on the 102-1018 player BUT NOT updated the specs about the hardware used in the new 983. So, yes, I feel all this is not very transparent.
So please, don´t tell me I am pity or things like that. I wanted to know all this BEFORE my purchase and not know it when I payed and received the product at my home. I hope somebody would understand and be empathic with my point of view and my experience (it´s not the same as potential customer to advertise a player that uses some chipsets used by some of the most renowned players in the world and not the very latest and promising product from the same manufacturer BUT obviously without the same background).

Okay, I love my 983 and am very pleased with the improvement over the 970. Don't really care which chipset it has, but I would like to know which one it is; without moving my speaker & subwoofer, disconnecting 11 cables and then wrestling it out of the rack so I can remove the top! I have e-mailed oppo twice with the serial #, order date, the Mver: and Batch: 08-709 but they tell me they need the version # from a sticker that apparently wasn't placed on my unit.

OPPO e-mailed me that all units beginning with a 4A, 4B or 4C serial # have the new 2010 chipset.

Well...I´m very familiar with modern production technologies. To put very clear, Oppo advertised VERY CLEAR in every literature about the 983 they uses ABT102-ABT1018 chipset in the 983, PERIOD. This is the chipset I want to see in the product they sold to me. By the way, if I buy a computer with a 500GB/7200rpm HDD advertised the manufacturer can use today a seagate and tomorrow a samsung if both are up to specs. BUT if the manufacturer advertised a 500GB/7200rpm Seagate series 3000 (if that thing someday exists) I expect to receive a Seagate 3000 and not another series or brand. In this case the change is not only a component but a very different PCB layout too. This is the kind of changes that makes to other companies to rename as MKII a product that has suffered some significant changes to be trasnparent to the end consumer...and I think that a completely new chipset and PCB layout to accomodate it it´s a "significant change"...isn´t it???

At the end I feel a bit frustrated about the feeling I get when exposing my problem. I´m not a troll searching for problems or flames. I´m just a person that has paid some amount of money after reading and exchanging many mails with someusers around the world. I´m expected to receive a product with some very defined characteristics AND hardware and I payed for that...and I received DIFFERENT hardware. I can try now and see if fits with my expectation of PQ etc etc but the fact it´s if I knew at that point the newer 983 not longer would use the ABT102-1018 I WOULDN´T BUY the player. Based on the comments that Neuromancer has the new version for at less two months makes me clearly thinks Oppo knew several weeks ago there would be no more 102-1018 based 983 players so through the last weeks they have updated their webpage with the latest reviews based on the 102-1018 player BUT NOT updated the specs about the hardware used in the new 983. So, yes, I feel all this is not very transparent.
So please, don´t tell me I am pity or things like that. I wanted to know all this BEFORE my purchase and not know it when I payed and received the product at my home. I hope somebody would understand and be empathic with my point of view and my experience (it´s not the same as potential customer to advertise a player that uses some chipsets used by some of the most renowned players in the world and not the very latest and promising product from the same manufacturer BUT obviously without the same background).


So you have two choices... keep it or return it... However, Im not so sure Oppo will take it back since you opened it up? As to the MKII... I disagree, since no functional change was made there would be no need to rename the product.

So you have two choices... keep it or return it... However, Im not so sure Oppo will take it back since you opened it up? As to the MKII... I disagree, since no functional change was made there would be no need to rename the product.
I wish return it would be more easy to do. I´m located at Europe and I have paid customs etc. Oppo doesn´t want to take care of the customs expenses and I don´t know what to do cause if I´ll return it I´ll waste money in the purchase and remember I bought it not to try it but to keep it here. If I were a US resident obviously everything would be A LOT easier.:(

Ok, if you some day buy a special car, a swiss watch, etc with some specific engine you want to own and the seller has replace it for another "similar specs" engine without previous notice...just don´t say a bad word and keep it. It´s not the engine you wanted but has the same specs. No functional change was made, so enjoy it.

To not going round and round in this thread and not boring to you with my problem this will be my last post unless somebody wants me to answer any question about it.

Thanks for your time

No, read the description again. It is the insertion of the external processor that does not allow for DSD over HDMI. It is not because of a dual-solution.

Neuromancer, was that addressed to my post?

From 1st page:

-"No 1080p/24Hz Support

Many of you asked about a 1080p 24Hz mode. The ABT1018 scaler and frame rate converter in the 983H is capable of generating the 1080p24Hz timing and converting 50Hz or 60Hz input to 24Hz. However the frame rate conversion is not locked to the original cadence of the program. This is due to the ABT1018 scaler/frame rate converter is a separate chip from the ABT102 de-interlacer, and there is no cadence information passed between the two chips. As a result, the 1080p 24Hz output will have judder. This defeats the purpose of having a 24Hz output for film-based material. We decide not to offer 1080p 24Hz output on the 983H. "-

Since that is the case no more, I belive technically it should be feasible with the 1020, however there could be other considerations. I don't understand why Oppo would negate those extra features even if it could mean having two lines of firmware, they will make a great player even greater. If future production runs are going to be built on the 1020 it would make sense, on the other hand if it is unknown and they could be going back and forth then I think it would be more reasonable to keep it simple.
Rgds.

I wish return ti would be more easy to do. I´m located at Europe and I have paid customs etc. Oppo doesn´t want to take care of the customs expenses and I don´t know what to do cause if I returned it I´ll waste money in the purchase and remember I bought it not to try it but to keep it here. If I were a US resident obviously everything would be A LOT easier.:(

Ok, if you some day buy a special car, a swiss watch, etc with some specific engine you want to own and the seller has replace it for another "similar specs" engine without previous notice...just don´t say a bad word and keep it. It´s not the engine you wanted but has the same specs. No functional change was made, so enjoy it.

I really dont understand what you want us to say to you..... If you didnt get what you want... If the 2010 processor is unsatisfactory... return it. The same would apply to the 'swiss watch' or 'special car'. If you dont want to keep it... return it. Personally if BMW choose to put better bearings or improved EFI hardware in my car... Id be happy.. not upset. If you were nearby I would gladly trade 983's with you (except that you took yours apart).

Sorry, misread.

I don't understand why Oppo would negate those extra features even if it could mean having two lines of firmware, they will make a great player even greater.

And why would OPPO negate this feature? Because, again, it would alienate the customers who purchased the player to begin with. It is unfair to their early customers to offer a functionality which is not available in their product.

If they shipped a redesigned player, I can see your argument. But without any change to the price, model number, or other structure, you are being unfaithful to the people who originally purchased the product.

IIRC the ABT102 is a FPGA and the ABT2010 is an ASIC. In theory that would mean that the ABT102 is more upgradable, but I don't know if that's relevant in the case of the DV-983H.

Based on the picture gonk posted, it looks that the programming pins for the ABT102's Xilinx FPGA EEPROM are not stuffed (top right corner). This means that the FPGA is not upgradeable in the DV-983H. I can understand why - ABT/DVDO uses their FPGA-based VPxx platforms to develop and verify their video processing algorithms, so they can upgrade the FPGA when they want to. However when they sell the ABT102 product to OPPO, it is a finalized product and no FPGA upgrade is necessary. Now that they implemented the same or better algorithms in the ABT2010 ASIC, it is understandable that OPPO chose to make the running change to it.

By the way, I saw on the pictures posted earlier on that the new board used DDR2 memory while the original used SDRAM. DDR2 should have faster access time but I don't think it makes a performance difference here - SDRAMs are fast enough for 1080p video processing.

In my previous post on this subject, I suggested that returning the player was an option, but that if I were in your position I would choose not to. Had I been told about the decision to make this change, I'd have worried about folks with 102-1018 players wanting to swap for the single-chip solution simply for the newer chip - I'd not have anticipated complaints going in the opposite direction. However...
I can try now and see if fits with my expectation of PQ etc etc but the fact it´s if I knew at that point the newer 983 not longer would use the ABT102-1018 I WOULDN´T BUY the player.
...This comment changes the debate entirely. If you would have chosen not to buy a 983H solely because they had changed from the 102-1018 solution to the 2010, then we have a separate issue. If that is the case - if the 2010 revision would have eliminated the 983H from your list of possible purchases - then all I can think to do is suggest returning it or selling it locally. I'm sorry...

I have been using the DV-983H since August of 2007. I have more experience with this player than anyone here, and I can say with authority that there is no difference between the ABT102/1018 and the ABT2010.

I bought my 983 on July 15 2008 and the S/N begins with 4B so I assume I have the new 2010 chipset. So far I love this player and what it does for my SD-DVD collection.

I was a little confused when I first came upon all these posts about the "newer chipset" and thought "oh no what now" then I read the above post. I'll take his word for it and continue enjoying my player. :D

Jim

So you have two choices... keep it or return it... However, Im not so sure Oppo will take it back since you opened it up? As to the MKII... I disagree, since no functional change was made there would be no need to rename the product.

Yea opened it up. Pointing that up is, perhaps, just a tad mean. Let's give the new member a break. He has a valid point, to some extent. And let me be the first to say welcome to AVS mmwwmm. You might find it useful to read a bit more on this and other oppo related threads.

Neuromancer is a very trusted, long term poster about all things oppo. His knowledge, advice and help has been much appreciated for a long time.

I think this issue has been fully covered. Maybe the problem is that we have nothing to complain about concerning the stellar performance of the 983 and need a diversion.

For me an empty shelf in the rack awaits oppo model BD-1000. Until then I'll suffer along with a PS3 and enjoy the best in upconverted DVD's without fan noise, high wattage and the screwed up remote (non IR).

On second thought it can not be released as a BD-1000. Another manufacturer has already used that to a rather luke warm response.

Joe

Help me to understand here..If,indeed,there is no difference betwen the chipset(s)...and both have identical performance..,why would the 2010 be considered an upgrade:confused::confused:
I would assume,and as identified in a previous post,I posses a 2010 since my serial # starts with 4A......In any case,I am more than thrilled with the performance of this player...and if they are identical,I would frankly,have no problem owning either..

The ABT2010, as already commented upon, has several functions which are not a part of the ABT102/1018 design. Particularly Mosquito Noise Reduction, and 24/48/72Hz output.

However, OPPO will not enable any of these functions (if it is even possible) due to the nature of them implementing the ABT2010 to the same standards as the ABT102/1018.

The benefit you will see is a player that will run a little bit cooler and consume a slightly lower amount of electricity.

The benefit you will see is a player that will run a little bit cooler and consume a slightly lower amount of electricity.

And the obvious question... downsides?

Help me to understand here..If,indeed,there is no difference betwen the chipset(s)...and both have identical performance..,why would the 2010 be considered an upgrade:confused::confused:
I would assume,and as identified in a previous post,I posses a 2010 since my serial # starts with 4A......In any case,I am more than thrilled with the performance of this player...and if they are identical,I would frankly,have no problem owning either..

Ok, the first dual chipset design is the source of the funtions of the 983. However there ARE limitations of the design. With the NEW 2010 chip, Oppo could implement changes in the player to make it better, but with all things being equal, these changes could not be done to the earlier dual chip design... it'd only be possible to implement them on the 2010 design. So, Oppo has just put the same funtionality into ALL 983 players to make them equal, even though the 2010 design has the potential for better performance features.

BEat me to it again Neuro :D.

Hey Neuromancer, even though you may be working on behalf of OppoDigital, or on your own merits, whatever the case may be...
I'd like to take a moment to THANK YOU for all your valuable input, information, help and participation with evrything Oppo related at AVS. Your knowledge and input is invaluable and is much appreciated. :)
Thank you Neuromancer and thank you OppoDigital. Great products at great prices, great support and customer service, great company indeed...:).

And the obvious question... downsides?

None that I know of.

I'd like to take a moment to THANK YOU for all your valuable input, information, help and participation with evrything Oppo related at AVS.

Something has to make the day go by faster, and if my actions help other people, and reduces the strain on OPPO, then I am more than happy to help out.

And at least AVS Forums can't get me fired, unlike some other activities I can think of.

And at least AVS Forums can't get me fired, unlike some other activities I can think of.
:eek::D

And why would OPPO negate this feature? Because, again, it would alienate the customers who purchased the player to begin with. It is unfair to their early customers to offer a functionality which is not available in their product.

If they shipped a redesigned player, I can see your argument. But without any change to the price, model number, or other structure, you are being unfaithful to the people who originally purchased the product.

I see what you mean, and its true some customers might feel somewhat cheated.
So, why not a 984H with all the picture candy and a (slightly) bigger figure in the price tag? I guess in BD times the 983 is already a risky bet, but seeing its success and provided the development effort and cost should be quite small (only soft), if they have some spare resources left by BD developent could be worth considering, just like Sony's S350 Vs S550 or Panasonic's BD30 Vs BD50, to put a couple o examples, a little more functions, a little extra tag (well in these cases not so little). As the functions are already there and only "activation" is needed price increase could be smaller, and those who don't want those functions can choose the 983.
Also there is a chance no one is interested in the extra functionality or willing to spend even more in an already "pricey" DVD player...

I see what you mean, and its true some customers might feel somewhat cheated.
So, why not a 984H with all the picture candy and a (slightly) bigger figure in the price tag?

Whey would they do this? It would take additional costs in repackaging, etc., all for a product that does the exact same thing as a 983H. Oppo wants to make money (rightfully so), and the best way for them to do that is to recoup their R&D costs already sunk into the 983H.

It is likely (and logical) that ABT simply stopped producing the 102/1018 combo, and the 2010 does everything Oppo needs. No reason to designate it a whole new player, as the 983H is virtually perfect as-is.

Dear Oppo,
I was one of the luck first 100 owners of my 983(received March 11th, 2008). I am very happy with all aspect of the performance of this machine in my modest system. Both PQ & AP has been outstanding. Because, of the ever changing electronic environment and business realities, you made a decision to change a chip that might give the current 983H machines some upgradeable features and improvement to some aspects of the 983H either in PQ or AP. I solute in your efforts to keep trying to give customers the highest quality machine you can. I will not- do not feel slighted if this new chips gives the newer 983H some features my current 983H may or may not have. I think you should, if need give separate FW updates to this next gen player if it improvers the overall player. It shows me you are willing to give your customers the best value- at all times.
Sincerely, a satisfied customer
Dave
SF CA USA

Whey would they do this? It would take additional costs in repackaging, etc., all for a product that does the exact same thing as a 983H. Oppo wants to make money (rightfully so), and the best way for them to do that is to recoup their R&D costs already sunk into the 983H.

It is likely (and logical) that ABT simply stopped producing the 102/1018 combo, and the 2010 does everything Oppo needs. No reason to designate it a whole new player, as the 983H is virtually perfect as-is.

I don't think that you are understanding the concept. The "new" player would have additional functions that the current 983 does not. Like custom resolutions, DSD via hdmi, 1080p/24fps playback, and more...
So, just knowing those functions are NOT is the current 983 specs, means that it is not "perfect as-is". However, it may be good enough for you. So you can choose the 983 instead of the 983-2/984 model that we are proposing.

Dear Oppo,
I was one of the luck first 100 owners of my 983(received March 11th, 2008). I am very happy with all aspect of the performance of this machine in my modest system. Both PQ & AP has been outstanding. Because, of the ever changing electronic environment and business realities, you made a decision to change a chip that might give the current 983H machines some upgradeable features and improvement to some aspects of the 983H either in PQ or AP. I solute in your efforts to keep trying to give customers the highest quality machine you can. I will not- do not feel slighted if this new chips gives the newer 983H some features my current 983H may or may not have. I think you should, if need give separate FW updates to this next gen player if it improvers the overall player. It shows me you are willing to give your customers the best value- at all times.
Sincerely, a satisfied customer
Dave
SF CA USA

Having been a loyal Oppo customer for 3+ years, I would be a little miffed if they enhanced the 2nd generation 983 with additional features not available to me. However, I don't think this is going to happen.

Why would you be miffed? It would be a better player that has more functions than the 983 with a higher price tag. Kind of llike going from a 981/980 to a 983 model.

If the new chip was not available at the time of the original design but something new/improved came up afterwords. Are you thinking that company should stick with what they have and not give add value to their product for the same price? That,i am sorry to say is why some industries in the USA are not what they use to be.
We all could have waited for another 6month- years for this player. I'm not miffed. How much better is the new chip?? Not a whole lot in terms of PQ &AP. so i don't care///\
db
I also, purchased the 970 when it 1st came out. A short time latter the 980/1 series came out, was i upset no..

FPGAs are typically very expensive. I wonder if we'll see a price reduction due to this change? Unless ABT was eating the cost of the FPGAs due to failing to deliver the ABT2010 on schedule, maybe we will...

[QUOTE=Smarty-pants;14476021]I don't think that you are understanding the concept. The "new" player would have additional functions that the current 983 does not. Like custom resolutions, DSD via hdmi, 1080p/24fps playback, and more...

Wait, what i thought i read there wasn't much difference in PQ or AP. but i didn't read that these newer features {custom resolutions, DSD via hdmi, 1080p/24fps playback, and more...}
were part of the upgrade chip..i;ll have to go back reread.
even though- dsd via hdmi and 1080p/24fps isn't features i can not use..

Perhaps someone like the Dangerous Brothers, for instance, who hack firmware for numerous DVD burners (faster ripping speed, more stable burning, ability to change bitsetting, burn DVD-RAM, etc.) can do the same for 983Hs with the ABT2010 that can enable the advanced potential functions.

Just a thought...;)

Amidst all the angst over the running change by OPPO Digital of the chipset on the 983, no one* has pointed out the disclaimer on the bottom of every page on the OPPO Digital web site. "Design and specifications are subject to change without notice."

However, I think it is past time for OPPO Digital to remove the references on its web site 983 pages to the ABT102 and ABT1018 chipsets now that they are not shipping.

Dana

* My apologies to Neuromancer who first posted this observation on the preceding page.

Amidst all the angst over the running change by OPPO Digital of the chipset on the 983, no one has pointed out the disclaimer on the bottom of every page on the OPPO Digital web site. "Design and specifications are subject to change without notice."



Meanwhile, a few posts back...

...EDIT: I would also note that on OPPO's main website at the bottom of all their pages, under the "Features & Specifications" tab for their products, as well as the DVD Player's User Manual (Page 61 under "Specifications"), OPPO notes:
"Design and specifications are subject to change without notice."

;)

Meanwhile, a few posts back...
;)

Oops. Good for you. Sometimes people can see things better from across the pond. ;)

Dana

I don't think that you are understanding the concept. The "new" player would have additional functions that the current 983 does not. Like custom resolutions, DSD via hdmi, 1080p/24fps playback, and more...
So, just knowing those functions are NOT is the current 983 specs, means that it is not "perfect as-is". However, it may be good enough for you. So you can choose the 983 instead of the 983-2/984 model that we are proposing.


I understand the concept. I also said "virtually" perfect as-is. It doesn't really matter what "we"/you propose, Oppo has already made a decision with regards to implementation of the ABT2010 on the 983H platform. And they have not given the slightest indication that they would change this strategy. It is my theory that it making the changes you propose does not meet the cost analytics profit goals for Oppo. Hence, we get the same features with a newer/better chip.

Oppo has already raised the bar extraordinarily high for SD-DVD performance, and feature set. Especially for $400. At this point, they are not chasing anyone, and probably have little motivation to spend R&D to raise the bar even higher.

Personally, I would prefer them to focus their efforts on a Blu-ray player that kept the same SD DVD performance as the 983H.

Oppo has already made a decision with regards to implementation of the ABT2010 on the 983H platform. And they have not given the slightest indication that they would change this strategy. It is my theory that it making the changes you propose does not meet the cost analytics profit goals for Oppo.

This is just wild speculation on your part. I don't mean that to sound insulting, but Oppo hasn't given any indication at all regarding the 2010. No one even knew they were useing it till someone poped the top on their player a couple days ago. We already know Oppo is not losing money on the 983, so this propsal of mine could be doable. As far as possibly delaying the next generation player(s) that everyone is looking forward too (including me :)), I think it is about time Oppo start expanding their infrastructure in order to multitask their support efforts. Their main engineers can work on the latest and greatest project while others work on fw upgrades for the other products. Of course this is just wild speculation on my part... :D.

Why would you be miffed? It would be a better player that has more functions than the 983 with a higher price tag. Kind of llike going from a 981/980 to a 983 model.

If they charged more for a new player (ex. DV-984H) with expanded functions, then there would be no problem with OPPO implementing new functionality from the ABT2010.

But they are selling the player at the same price, with the same specifications as the "old" ABT102/1018 solution. This, to me, would be disingenuous if they offered to add new features to only specific versions of the hardware, and then charged their original customers extra money to obtain the same performance.

Personally, I would prefer them to focus their efforts on a Blu-ray player that kept the same SD DVD performance as the 983H.

This is also a good comment, as any time they spend on getting the extra features out of the ABT2010 would take resources away from their Blu-Ray development. Would we be willing to wait another 6 months for the Blu-Ray player just so we can get some extra, never promised, performance out of the DV-983H? The ABT2010 is an extension of the original design implementation of the ABT102/1018. OPPO did not change chipsets because of the new features; they changed because it was necessary in order to keep producing the DV-983H.

If they charged more for a new player (ex. DV-984H) with expanded functions, then there would be no problem with OPPO implementing new functionality from the ABT2010.

But they are selling the player at the same price, with the same specifications as the "old" ABT102/1018 solution. This, to me, would be disingenuous if they offered to add new features to only specific versions of the hardware, and then charged their original customers extra money to obtain the same performance.



This is also a good comment, as any time they spend on getting the extra features out of the ABT2010 would take resources away from their Blu-Ray development. Would we be willing to wait another 6 months for the Blu-Ray player just so we can get some extra, never promised, performance out of the DV-983H? The ABT2010 is an extension of the original design implementation of the ABT102/1018. OPPO did not change chipsets because of the new features; they changed because it was necessary in order to keep producing the DV-983H.

And building on that thought... the '984' with even better SD capabilities 'could' be the BluRay player powered by a 2010. Its just software.

any time they spend on getting the extra features out of the ABT2010 would take resources away from their Blu-Ray development. Would we be willing to wait another 6 months for the Blu-Ray player just so we can get some extra, never promised, performance out of the DV-983H?Somehow I don't think it'd really be 6 months, and throwing existing customers a bone like that could go a long way towards buying them goodwill time. :) Especially users who were willing to blow upwards towards $400 for a DVD-only player.

It would not be 6 months, but it would not be a quick addition to the player. There is a lot of work that goes into implementing, testing, and retesting any feature on the player. It would be something that would take several months to implement, and that is several months of resources which could have gone into their BD player.

Wow, this is sad to see. Surely Oppo made this commitment to 983H features as a business decision realizing the window to introduce a SD DVD product, even to the enthusiast community, was quickly closing. But since this is exactly their market, it seems extremely shortsighted.

Introduction of a new daughter-card (which is essentially what this new board is) for an existing product doesn't happen overnight. It must be designed, layed out, prototyped and debugged, sent for follow-up product certification/approvals, and finally manufactured and shipped. This is a many months long process. Sampling availability of this part was Q2 2007, that should give you some idea since the first shipments of the 983H were apparently in Q1 2008 (and near the end, at that.) Even more, Oppo would have had some idea this new integrated solution was coming several quarters before that, probably sometime in the latter half of '06 as semiconductor mfrs are always keeping their customers ahead of the curve. Yet Oppo chose to ignore the significant advantages they could have achieved with the integrated solution in favor of getting the product out there a few months earlier before the production parts were available. While disappointing, its their decision to make, though.

For myself, after reading about all the issues with Blu-ray players (stability, upconversion PQ, availability, etc.), having a substantial SD DVD collection, and being unwilling to leave behind my Panasonic RP91/iScan combo (that I use with my JVC RS1x) for anything less than a 983H that can also at least do 24fps, I can tell you I won't be buying one unless Oppo commits to some kind of enabling of these features. Clearly Oppo can change specifications at any time. I don't really see a changing feature set as different from any other performance or quality risk someone takes by being the first to grab a new product. Its just the nature of the beast for those that want to be the first to have one. Surely they could develop some kind of program to upgrade those users who wanted to pay for it, its certainly not unprecedented. If I didn't have display that accepted 24fps I'd probably not even bother, but it would still be my option. I'd guess the primary reason for being unable to offer a program like this has nothing to do with cost, that can always be worked out so that its not fiscally irresponsible for a company, but more to do with the fact that they probably just don't have the parts (boards) available if they were never intending to upgrade early field units.

Should Oppo change their minds (and I hope they will) there's no doubt they'll win me as a customer. Until then, I know I'm not missing much in terms of PQ or performance, certainly not enough to justify the price tag.

If they charged more for a new player (ex. DV-984H) with expanded functions, then there would be no problem with OPPO implementing new functionality from the ABT2010.

Of course its logical that if there is an extra cost to adding those functions Oppo will pass it onto the product. Changes in packaging, user manual changes, implemetation of new features and even unit marking changes, hopefully having so much in common with the 983 I don't belive these should be too high. Even in their web it'll be pretty much a "copy & paste" job.

But they are selling the player at the same price, with the same specifications as the "old" ABT102/1018 solution. This, to me, would be disingenuous if they offered to add new features to only specific versions of the hardware, and then charged their original customers extra money to obtain the same performance.

Very true, but almost all C.E. products change every year and add or improove functionality. You buy a plasma this year and next year for the same price (or even for less) you get much better perfomance from the same maker. Think of cars, 06 model had 220HP, 07 same cost but 250HP, 2 extra airbags, better suspension, etc. Also, there is always the 2nd hand market.

This is also a good comment, as any time they spend on getting the extra features out of the ABT2010 would take resources away from their Blu-Ray development. Would we be willing to wait another 6 months for the Blu-Ray player just so we can get some extra, never promised, performance out of the DV-983H? The ABT2010 is an extension of the original design implementation of the ABT102/1018. OPPO did not change chipsets because of the new features; they changed because it was necessary in order to keep producing the DV-983H.

That is what I think would one of the most important show stoppers, BD is still in its infancy but "time to market" could be critical to build a reputation and get some market share. If the are "tight" on resources then I won't expect this happening any time soon if at all.
Maybe once they launch their BD they could reconsider and revitalize their DVD range sales with the "bestbest" player.
I will be using DVD until BD discs sell at today's DVD prices, I wouldn't mind selling my 983 in a few months and buy a new "984", I've been using Oppos for a few years and most propably continue to do so.


PS. "disingenuous" I had to look up that on the dictionary, my englsh is not that good.:)

This is just wild speculation on your part. I don't mean that to sound insulting, but Oppo hasn't given any indication at all regarding the 2010.

Not really wild speculation on my part: What has Oppo done to indicate anything other than the status quo for the remainder product life of the 983H? In fact, they indicated that they made production changes (read: ABT2010) to ensure they could build enough to satisfy all the potential sales until end-of-life. By not saying anything at all regarding the ABT2010 currently shipping in units, they are in fact, saying something.

I think it is about time Oppo start expanding their infrastructure in order to multitask their support efforts. Their main engineers can work on the latest and greatest project while others work on fw upgrades for the other products. Of course this is just wild speculation on my part... :D.

I'm not in any position to recommend they multi-task or expand their infrastructure for firmware updates beyond their current level of support. I'm just a consumer ;)

Introduction of a new daughter-card (which is essentially what this new board is) for an existing product doesn't happen overnight. It must be designed, layed out, prototyped and debugged, sent for follow-up product certification/approvals, and finally manufactured and shipped. This is a many months long process. Sampling availability of this part was Q2 2007, that should give you some idea since the first shipments of the 983H were apparently in Q1 2008 (and near the end, at that.) Even more, Oppo would have had some idea this new integrated solution was coming several quarters before that, probably sometime in the latter half of '06 as semiconductor mfrs are always keeping their customers ahead of the curve. Yet Oppo chose to ignore the significant advantages they could have achieved with the integrated solution in favor of getting the product out there a few months earlier before the production parts were available. There is one essential factor that you have overlooked. When the 983 hardware was being designed, the ABT2010 was the preferred choice, but it was simply not available... it was MANY months from release. OPPO had to start somewhere. And they chose to start with the existing, tried and trusted, ABT102 solution first. That gave them perhaps a year of design and development time that they would not have had if they had waited for the 2010. Just think how many customers they may have lost in the wait. While OPPO's firmware engineers worked furiously on the player, the hardware was being prepared in anticipation of the 2010, but they also had to consider the possibility that there might be a problem with the chip after release. They made the best possible decisions.

Gary

Wow, this is sad to see. Surely Oppo made this commitment to 983H features as a business decision realizing the window to introduce a SD DVD product, even to the enthusiast community, was quickly closing. But since this is exactly their market, it seems extremely shortsighted.

Introduction of a new daughter-card (which is essentially what this new board is) for an existing product doesn't happen overnight. It must be designed, layed out, prototyped and debugged, sent for follow-up product certification/approvals, and finally manufactured and shipped. This is a many months long process. Sampling availability of this part was Q2 2007, that should give you some idea since the first shipments of the 983H were apparently in Q1 2008 (and near the end, at that.) Even more, Oppo would have had some idea this new integrated solution was coming several quarters before that, probably sometime in the latter half of '06 as semiconductor mfrs are always keeping their customers ahead of the curve. Yet Oppo chose to ignore the significant advantages they could have achieved with the integrated solution in favor of getting the product out there a few months earlier before the production parts were available. While disappointing, its their decision to make, though.
I don't see the short-sightedness that you do. The 983H hardware was largely finalized somewhere around a year ago (I was not part of the initial wave of beta testers who started doing testing at least a couple months before I did, and I had hardware last fall), which means the design of the boards was going on quite a while before that. Since availability of samples and arrival of new generation chips is always risky (ask receiver makers like Harman Kardon who saw a delay of well over a year in the Cirrus 49700 DSP chip that they desperately needed for their HDMI v1.3 receivers), OPPO had to decide whether to go with an existing two-chip solution or a future one-chip solution. The one-chip solution would have been simpler in a lot of ways, but it could have created hardware delays that would have in turn slowed the process of getting the software ready (a process that takes months after the hardware settles down). Weigh that risk against the pressures of the market: HD players, falling prices on standard DVD players, and integration of video scaling into many receivers and processors. Now toss in the potential benefits of the single-chip solution. From what I've read, those benefits appear to be minimal - after all, the two-chip solution has yielded a very capable DVD player in its own right. For some people, of course, those "minimal" benefits will overlap with a strong personal desire for the lost benefit and disappointment will result. You can't please everyone. There are still a lot of other people who just wanted the player to be available rather than adding more delays, and the two-chip solution used to develop and subsequently launch the player met that desire. It's still an excellent player, even if it isn't the exact fit for every person's needs/desires.

Very true, but almost all C.E. products change every year and add or improove functionality. You buy a plasma this year and next year for the same price (or even for less) you get much better perfomance from the same maker. Think of cars, 06 model had 220HP, 07 same cost but 250HP, 2 extra airbags, better suspension, etc. Also, there is always the 2nd hand market.

Yes, but you KNOW going into the purchase that there is an improvement in the product. The name, production year notation, or other nomenclature makes this change apparent. If OPPO had released, as I said previously, an updated DV-983H with a different model scheme, I would have no problem with them adding additional features to the player.

This is my last comment on this matter. Let me just sum it up:

As it stands, the DV-983H is a DV-983H no matter what chipset it uses. The DV-983H has been configured to to the exact performance and specifications across all chipset (ie. features are set in stone) and will not be altered due to the recent utilization of the ABT2010.

When using the VRS test disc, I still see plenty of jaggies on the real-life scenes, i.e. the guys crawling on the ship tower. Especially the guy with the stripped (!) shirt. I have the ABT2010 model, does it look the same with the ABT102/1018 combo?

I realize this is a worst-case scenario. I seem to remember my Denon 3910 with Faroudja doing a bit better on these types of scenes, although I sold it just days before my 983H w/VRS disc arrived :(

It is the same. That sequence is a major torture test.

Thanks, that's what I thought. I think we're just running up against the spatial resolution of SD DVD with all of those angles + motion.

Yes, but you KNOW going into the purchase that there is an improvement in the product. The name, production year notation, or other nomenclature makes this change apparent. If OPPO had released, as I said previously, an updated DV-983H with a different model scheme, I would have no problem with them adding additional features to the player.

This is my last comment on this matter. Let me just sum it up:

As it stands, the DV-983H is a DV-983H no matter what chipset it uses. The DV-983H has been configured to to the exact performance and specifications across all chipset (ie. features are set in stone) and will not be altered due to the recent utilization of the ABT2010.

Get out your tin-foil hats and think about this as a possibility. To me it makes a great deal of sense:

1. ABT discontinues the older chip set and suddenly the 983 becomes as scarce as hen's teeth...i.e. - inadequate component supply = short product supply

2. Things get so dicey that rumors regarding the discontinuation of the 983 begin to circulate on the Internet

3. Suddenly OPPO is awash in 983's with no real concerns regarding having a satisfactory supply for the foreseeable future

4. Someone on the AVS forum cracks open their brand new 983 to see what's inside and finds that an ABT2010 chip has now replaced the older chipset

To me, this all makes perfect business, technical, and marketing sense. Products regularly receive hardware upgrades during their lifetimes (e.g. - the Xbox 360 is now on it's 3rd MB, cooling solution, and chipset iteration.) and no one expects to have their original purchase replaced as long as new functionality is not included in the updated versions.

I would bet good money that if a 983 with the older chipset dies, and is sent to OPPO under warranty and has to be replaced, that the owner will receive a replacement that has the ABT2010 in it. I know I've had the RROD on two 360's and both units were returned with updated MBs and cooling solutions.

There's nothing strange or duplicitous about any of this. It's just how the consumer electronics marketplace functions...:D

-Toonces

Yes, but you KNOW going into the purchase that there is an improvement in the product. The name, production year notation, or other nomenclature makes this change apparent. If OPPO had released, as I said previously, an updated DV-983H with a different model scheme, I would have no problem with them adding additional features to the player.

This is my last comment on this matter. Let me just sum it up:

As it stands, the DV-983H is a DV-983H no matter what chipset it uses. The DV-983H has been configured to to the exact performance and specifications across all chipset (ie. features are set in stone) and will not be altered due to the recent utilization of the ABT2010.

OK. Crystal clear, no new features for 983. Do we also forget about a potential "984" exploiting the new chip to its fullest?

Do we also forget about a potential "984" exploiting the new chip to its fullest?

Yes.

Thanks, that's what I thought. I think we're just running up against the spatial resolution of SD DVD with all of those angles + motion. No, its not just the angles and motion in that particular scene (climbing the ship's rigging). Its also the quality and cadence of the source signal that creates a particularly nasty torture-test for DVD players.

Those clips are not just ordinary "real-life" scenes, as you put it... they are specifically chosen to test the limits of DVD players. Try that scene in another player, and you'll see quite a mess.

Gary

Interesting. I figured it was standard 480i/30 interlaced video. Do you know any more specifics regarding the "boat climbing scene"? I watch a lot of concert videos, that a typically a mess of interlaced video and/or bad edits, so I am critical of these types of things.

Yes.

OK, thx.

There is one essential factor that you have overlooked. When the 983 hardware was being designed, the ABT2010 was the preferred choice, but it was simply not available... it was MANY months from release. OPPO had to start somewhere. And they chose to start with the existing, tried and trusted, ABT102 solution first. That gave them perhaps a year of design and development time that they would not have had if they had waited for the 2010. Just think how many customers they may have lost in the wait. While OPPO's firmware engineers worked furiously on the player, the hardware was being prepared in anticipation of the 2010, but they also had to consider the possibility that there might be a problem with the chip after release. They made the best possible decisions.

Nowhere did I ever say the part was available, nor did I say Oppo didn't make the best decisions for them. In fact, I actually did say it was their decision to make, for whatever reason they chose. Convenient how you dropped that last part from my quote. I even gave specifics about sample availability, and in case its not obvious, samples are always preceded by mechanical, electrical and technical data sheets needed for design long before they're actually available that Oppo could have used. However, they chose (again, their prerogative) to start with what was available. So actually, I didn't "overlook" anything, not even offering my opinion that I considered this strategy a disappointment.

As for lost customers, given the target market I firmly believe that they'd have gained more customers by incorporating fully functional ABT2010 solution than they would have lost from that delay, assuming the costs remained the same. I've never seen anyone (intentionally) introduce new hardware within 4 months of a product launch that wasn't due to some heinous problem that couldn't be corrected any other way, and I find that a bit perplexing on Oppo's part since this doesn't seem to be the case. Using the older solution as a development platform and as last-resort hedge to recoup costs in the case of some eventual disaster with the integrated part is certainly prudent business practice, but if you're not going to use the functional gains the newer part affords there's just no good reason to incur the extra expense at all to even introduce it! I still find it unlikely that 4 months of product availability could offset the substantial costs to spin new hardware on such a low-margin CE product. So the only conclusion I can draw from this is that for whatever reason, Oppo chose to ship hardware which was obsolete and functionally "impaired" before it even hit the virtual shelf. Certainly not a very sustainable business model and not what you expect from a boutique manufacturer like Oppo which caters to a more discriminating crowd.

So the only conclusion I can draw from this is that for whatever reason, Oppo chose to ship hardware which was obsolete and functionally "impaired" before it even hit the virtual shelf. Certainly not a very sustainable business model and not what you expect from a boutique manufacturer like Oppo which caters to a more discriminating crowd.
Or, since we're dealing with speculation here, the demand far exceeded their expectations and they ran into shortages on parts (either the 102, the 1018, or some ancillary chip or memory required by one of them) that could be circumvented by changing to the 2010 that had become available late in the player's development cycle.

I've never seen anyone (intentionally) introduce new hardware within 4 months of a product launch that wasn't due to some heinous problem that couldn't be corrected any other way, and I find that a bit perplexing on Oppo's part since this doesn't seem to be the case.

The ABT102/1018 chipset was phased out completely by ABT due to the expense of making this solution available to its partners. The ABT2010 is a much cheaper manufacturing solution and offers the exact same performance of the ABT102/1018 hardware. And for ABT, you have the additional benefit of not having to manufacturer separate, and rather redundant chipsets, for vendors and personal use (see: EDGE).

So the change is due purely by manufacturing changes; not because OPPO wanted to move onto the ABT2010.

I don't see the short-sightedness that you do. The 983H hardware was largely finalized somewhere around a year ago (I was not part of the initial wave of beta testers who started doing testing at least a couple months before I did, and I had hardware last fall), which means the design of the boards was going on quite a while before that. Since availability of samples and arrival of new generation chips is always risky (ask receiver makers like Harman Kardon who saw a delay of well over a year in the Cirrus 49700 DSP chip that they desperately needed for their HDMI v1.3 receivers), OPPO had to decide whether to go with an existing two-chip solution or a future one-chip solution. The one-chip solution would have been simpler in a lot of ways, but it could have created hardware delays that would have in turn slowed the process of getting the software ready (a process that takes months after the hardware settles down). Weigh that risk against the pressures of the market: HD players, falling prices on standard DVD players, and integration of video scaling into many receivers and processors. Now toss in the potential benefits of the single-chip solution. From what I've read, those benefits appear to be minimal - after all, the two-chip solution has yielded a very capable DVD player in its own right. For some people, of course, those "minimal" benefits will overlap with a strong personal desire for the lost benefit and disappointment will result. You can't please everyone. There are still a lot of other people who just wanted the player to be available rather than adding more delays, and the two-chip solution used to develop and subsequently launch the player met that desire. It's still an excellent player, even if it isn't the exact fit for every person's needs/desires.

gonk - I really do appreciate all you've said here, but I would argue the risk of using the integrated device was relatively small compared to those others you quote since its not new, but essentially just a re-packaging of what already existed in the two chip solution with some supporting (external) circuitry included so it could be sold as a VP SoC (System-on-a-Chip). I would also argue that for someone like me, wanting the absolute best PQ out of my 24p capable PJ, 24fps support isn't "minimal" but rather extremely desirable!

As I said above, to introduce new hardware so quickly after product launch and not take advantage of the additional features when they cater to your customer demographic is very odd. Its shortsighted in the sense that there's no reason to do it unless its necessary, in which case Oppo should've had plenty of lead time on this which would have allowed them to continue a parallel development which could still have made the planned launch date (or at least reasonably close) assuming production parts were also available around that time. Since most devices are generally available as production runs 2-3 quarters after sample quantities, this seems reasonable based on the time frames ABT indicated in their product info.

I do agree the 983H is a very sharp player indeed, and I had been all ready to fork over the 4 benjamins for one until I discovered it lacked 24p support. I just want Oppo to know there are lots of others like me who just can't justify the cost for a SD-DVD player when it lacks what is emerging as an important feature (particularly for those of us with very large screens where judder can be much less subtle!)

What about the exploratory research of being able to offer some type of custom resolutions for the 983 Neuromancer?... is that still a possibility?

The ABT102/1018 chipset was phased out completely by ABT due to the expense of making this solution available to its partners. The ABT2010 is a much cheaper manufacturing solution and offers the exact same performance of the ABT102/1018 hardware.
{snipped}
So the change is due purely by manufacturing changes; not because OPPO wanted to move onto the ABT2010.

Exactly. But this type of thing doesn't happen overnight (or at least it shouldn't!) Semiconductor manufacturers realize it takes their customers time to design in new or replacement devices, and as such give plenty of lead time so this can be planned for well in advance. Given the very short interval between the HW change, I have a hard time believing Oppo couldn't have pushed out the 983 by a few weeks and incorporated the integrated device, especially given its enhanced feature set and lower cost (i.e. higher margins for Oppo.)

gonk - I really do appreciate all you've said here, but I would argue the risk of using the integrated device was relatively small compared to those others you quote since its not new, but essentially just a re-packaging of what already existed in the two chip solution with some supporting (external) circuitry included so it could be sold as a VP SoC (System-on-a-Chip). I would also argue that for someone like me, wanting the absolute best PQ out of my 24p capable PJ, 24fps support isn't "minimal" but rather extremely desirable!

As I said above, to introduce new hardware so quickly after product launch and not take advantage of the additional features when they cater to your customer demographic is very odd. Its shortsighted in the sense that there's no reason to do it unless its necessary, in which case Oppo should've had plenty of lead time on this which would have allowed them to continue a parallel development which could still have made the planned launch date (or at least reasonably close) assuming production parts were also available around that time. Since most devices are generally available as production runs 2-3 quarters after sample quantities, this seems reasonable based on the time frames ABT indicated in their product info.

I do agree the 983H is a very sharp player indeed, and I had been all ready to fork over the 4 benjamins for one until I discovered it lacked 24p support. I just want Oppo to know there are lots of others like me who just can't justify the cost for a SD-DVD player when it lacks what is emerging as an important feature (particularly for those of us with very large screens where judder can be much less subtle!)
If the they enable or coded for or did something to support newer features they'd have a DIFFERENT product. That's not FAIR to older customers... They seem to have made just as functional so that they can be fair to those who purchased earlier models.

Exactly. But this type of thing doesn't happen overnight (or at least it shouldn't!) Semiconductor manufacturers realize it takes their customers time to design in new or replacement devices, and as such give plenty of lead time so this can be planned for well in advance.

The quick turnaround on the newer chipset is due to the nature of the ABT2010 being coded to the same exact specifications of the ABT102/1018. Because there is no alteration whatsoever in how the chipset performs, it a perfect 1:1 swap. I guarantee you that I could send you a ABT2010 board to replace your current ABT102/1018 board, and after a firmware upgrade, your player will perform identically.

Given the very short interval between the HW change, I have a hard time believing Oppo couldn't have pushed out the 983 by a few weeks and incorporated the integrated device, especially given its enhanced feature set and lower cost (i.e. higher margins for Oppo.)

No, they could not have done this. The DV-983H would have been delayed at least the full 4 months it took ABT to release the ABT2010, then even more time to iron out the bugs which we saw during the initial, very limited release of the player. Secondary bugs (proper implementation of 24Hz, Noise Reduction, etc) would also be introduced and need to be accounted for. This would not have been a "quick" turnaround.

If they had waited for the ABT2010, we would have received an even more half baked product.

UPDATE: and I am done with this subject, as the subject is moot. OPPO is using the ABT2010 to the specifications of the ABT102/1018. There is no, and will be no, difference in performance.

Who cares what board or chipset is in the 983! Seriously lets get over it. They both freakin work the same regardless if one has extra features or not. Oppo is using 2010 now because it makes more sense for them and other manufacturers. No matter what we say its here to stay. If you want to proudly display the numbers 2010 on your chipset then get another bloody 983.

Otherwise can we please move on?

I am tired about reading about people freaking over a chipset. There are more important things to worry about.

Like just put in a movie sit back and ENJOY the movie. ENJOY what you have. A freakin great player that makes most other players turn green with envy. Your picture isn't going to be any different if your chipset has the numbers 2010 on it. So just watch the bloody movie.

Sorry but the whole 2010 thing is getting a little old.

ortegus, as long as we're all remaining civil, we're learning new stuff here. And that's what this thread is all about... There's little else to talk about at the moment, because the player is almost perfect already, so why not talk about the new chip?

Gary

Because there is no alteration whatsoever in how the chipset performs, it a perfect 1:1 swap. I guarantee you that I could send you a ABT2010 board to replace your current ABT102/1018 board, and after a firmware upgrade, your player will perform identically.

Yup, I get that, and would expect nothing less. But this is the beauty, by using the existing solution, 95% or more of the software/firmware work can be done in parallel and carried over to the new platform thus reducing the time frame. Then it really comes down to when production 2010 chips are available. But apparently Oppo chose to get to market more quickly with a somewhat reduced feature set, and that's fine. In about 6-9 months I'll be looking to spend my cash on a Toshiba SRT player instead of an Oppo, and likely at substantial savings.

No, they could not have done this. The DV-983H would have been delayed at least the full 4 months it took ABT to release the ABT2010, then even more time to iron out the bugs which we saw during the initial, very limited release of the player. Secondary bugs (proper implementation of 24Hz, Noise Reduction, etc) would also be introduced and need to be accounted for. This would not have been a "quick" turnaround.
But when was the ABT2010 released? Surely not the same day the 983 started shipping. If ABT gave Oppo less than 6 months notice before they were EOL'ing the existing parts and supplanting it with an integrated SoC package, I'd be very surprised. Given this isn't likely the case, I'd say Oppo decided they'd use the newer part in a strapped (equivalent) mode just to raise their margins a bit. Again, nothing wrong with that, its good business (well, from one perspective, anyway.)

UPDATE: and I am done with this subject, as the subject is moot. OPPO is using the ABT2010 to the specifications of the ABT102/1018. There is no, and will be no, difference in performance.
Agreed and Amen!

Who cares what board or chipset is in the 983! Seriously lets get over it. They both freakin work the same regardless if one has extra features or not. Oppo is using 2010 now because it makes more sense for them and other manufacturers. No matter what we say its here to stay. If you want to proudly display the numbers 2010 on your chipset then get another bloody 983.

Otherwise can we please move on?

I am tired about reading about people freaking over a chipset. There are more important things to worry about.

Like just put in a movie sit back and ENJOY the movie. ENJOY what you have. A freakin great player that makes most other players turn green with envy. Your picture isn't going to be any different if your chipset has the numbers 2010 on it. So just watch the bloody movie.

Sorry but the whole 2010 thing is getting a little old.

No one has been "freaking"... till now :rolleyes:.
It's just been a rational discussion about the "change" and what it could or could not amount to. If you don't want to read about what is being discussed, you could unsubscribe, or just turn off the computer. :)

But when was the ABT2010 released?

According to this press release from Anchor Bay (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/company/news/press/PR021208.php), the ABT2010 started sampling only in February of 2008, and mass production in April. This is a much later date than Q2'07 as Doug G originally quoted. As far as I know, the DV-983H design started much early than that - remember the "Best of 2007" award before any of us saw the product?

According to this press release from Anchor Bay (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/company/news/press/PR021208.php), the ABT2010 started sampling only in February of 2008, and mass production in April.

That is ABT's mass production date, which does not infer on how long it would take a partner, such as OPPO, to receive, integrate these chipsets into the manufacturing line, ship the product, and eventually make it available to the public. Lead times for manufactured and shipped product is generally 6 weeks.

Which, incidentally, is around the same time (July) we are starting to see DV-983H units with ABT2010 hardware.

As far as I know, the DV-983H design started much early than that - remember the "Best of 2007" award before any of us saw the product?

The ABT2010 was still in development when the DV-983H was produced. The ABT102/1018 was ready for prime time and available.

Testing units for the DV-983H had been seen as early as August 2007. Infact, the initial anticipation thread was started due to a static display at CEDIA 2007.

What about the exploratory research of being able to offer some type of custom resolutions for the 983 Neuromancer?... is that still a possibility?


Ditto.

And will the new chipset will make implementation of custom resolutions easier?

What about the exploratory research of being able to offer some type of custom resolutions for the 983 Neuromancer?... is that still a possibility?

Unless enhancements can be performed on both the ABT102/1018 and ABT2010 hardware, I would not expect any changes to the DV-983H.

According to this press release from Anchor Bay (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/company/news/press/PR021208.php), the ABT2010 started sampling only in February of 2008, and mass production in April. This is a much later date than Q2'07 as Doug G originally quoted.

Well, that's way later by almost a year than they indicated on the product page here. (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/semiconductors/abt2010.php) (go to the very bottom of the specs section.)

If samples in fact weren't available until Feb 08, that's understandable.

But I'd still also have liked to see a 984H! ;)

Part of the reason why a lot of people are on the hunt for the perfect amp, receiver, dvd player, etc etc is in searching out and optimizing these little details that makes this a hobby beyond just listening to music or watching movies. So that's why we don't have a problem with laying out $400 for a dvd player. So, by whatever route it took to get them (Oppo) there, we have a more advanced cheaper chip that is implemented to less than it's full capabilities - for which we pay the same price..

As for the people that bought the earlier two-chip version? I have no problem with it as I own one. I would still like to see the 2010 implemented to its fullest capability and I would purchase another model it that fully implemented 2010 ever did come out. If not Oppo, then I hope another company would work on it. I see Oppo as an enthusiast company and in this case I feel like there's something left on the table.

I don't think I'm going Bluray anytime in the near future so I guess Oppo doesn't need to keep me happy.

Is there any consensus on buying the extended warranty for the 983?

I personally do not believe in extended warranties. Most manufactured goods will go bad within the warranty, and those that do not will be obsolete if they do end up dying.

My experience is just the opposite: if something will break, it usually breaks in the first few days/weeks/months; if it lasts past the manufacturer's warranty, more than likely it will last for a long time. Ext warranty is exchanging peace of mind with the seller's pure profit.

It isn't very logical to to me to spend money on warrantees in those situations where you will be better off buying the newer product -- rather than fixing the old.

I don't know what Oppo's policy is regarding when you have to purchase the extended warranty. I couldn't find anything related to it on their website. So, I would assume that you could wait till the last day of your original warranty and then decide wether or not to purchase the extended one at that point. You could call/e-mail Oppo to see if that's how it could work.

Well, that's way later by almost a year than they indicated on the product page here. (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/semiconductors/abt2010.php) (go to the very bottom of the specs section.)

If samples in fact weren't available until Feb 08, that's understandable.

But I'd still also have liked to see a 984H! ;)

or you could wait for the 984H-BR ;-)

I personally do not believe in extended warranties. Most manufactured goods will go bad within the warranty, and those that do not will be obsolete if they do end up dying.

Consumer Reports does not recommended buying extended warranties. In some implied warranty states and countries, there is no fixed time limit on a warranty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty. OPPO Digital acknowledges this in its own limited warranty. http://www.oppodigital.com/OPPO-Product-Warranty.html

Some states do not allow limitation on how long an implied warranty lasts, or the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitations or exclusions may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state.

Dana

I personally think it's way more important to fix the known bugs: AR issues (both Analogue and HDMI), Subtitle issues (SD DVD strikethroughs as well as DivX truncations). Regardless of which chip is used, these issues need to be fixed in any flagship product.

I'd take an "old" hardware 983 with these issues fixed any day over a "new" hardware 983 without the fixes. However, as neither has these issues addressed at the moment, I believe focus should be on fixing those. However, if it's possible to fix 'em on a "new" hardware 983 but not on the "old" hardware 983, they should change the designation on the product, and I personally would get rid of the "old" hardware 983 to get a new one with these bugs fixed.

Neveretheless, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for these bugs to be fixed on both units, if at all possible.

Cheers

It isn't very logical to to me to spend money on warrantees in those situations where you will be better off buying the newer product -- rather than fixing the old.Or you could order your 983 from somewhere with a free 3y extended warranty... and free shipping... and who often has discount coupons out there. ;)

Or you could order your 983 from somewhere with a free 3y extended warranty... and free shipping... and who often has discount coupons out there. ;)

IF one buys an extended warranty, then it behooves the buyer to closely examine what company will be performing the work if a claim is made. On another thread, a poster reported that he had problems with a LCD monitor. The one year manufacturer Limited Warranty had expired but he had a 4 year extended warranty from Repair Master. Come to find out, that company has only one repair facility in the country and the consumer has to ship the 47" display at his expense with an estimated one month turnaround. And the manufacturer says that there is no repairing them in any event.

Incidentally, this web page http://phftbarnum.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!B008964A1E92161A!442.entry provides more info on implied warranties and reports

At this time, these states are Alabama, Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Hampshire, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, and the District of Columbia. In those states, sellers have implied warranty obligations that cannot be avoided.

Finally, I have read that some if not all AMEX credit cards provide for doubling the manufacturer's warranty if their cc is used for the purchase. What company provides the warranty service isn't clear to me.

Dana

Bingo.

All 983 owners owe it to themselves to check whether the player or the receiver (or pre/pro) does a better D/A conversion.

One should of course beware of doing too many conversions - make sure that the analog signal fed into your receiver does not get digitized again - that would defeat the whole purpose and degrade the sound.

wojtek, you were kind enough to point out to me that analogue connections to my DSP-A1 would be superior than digital. Can you, or anyone here, answer a couple of questions?

Hooked up to the Yamaha DSP-A1 via analogue, I'm assuming that while the Oppo sorts out the digital processing, the Yamaha still handles bass management and therefore I should set all speakers to 'large', rather than setting my centre and rears to 'small'?

I'm a little confused by the 'Pro Logic II' setting. The Yamaha is not, as you know, a Pro Logic II amp. However, do I apply this setting (is the Oppo doing some sort of Pro Logic II processing itself), and if so, should I then further apply 'auto' as the output; I don't know what the hell the other settings would do, particularly 'Pro Logic' - can you clarify?

I couldn't see much point to the 'Pro Logic II' setting until tonight BTW, when I finally hooked us some mp3 files via a USB - and what a difference. I might even invest in some SACDs...

Finally, I have read that some if not all AMEX credit cards provide for doubling the manufacturer's warranty if their cc is used for the purchase. What company provides the warranty service isn't clear to me.

With AMEX you set up the repair servicing with the agent which provides warranty and out of warranty repairs for your product. You pay for any applicable charges for this repair.

You contact AMEX and give them all appropriate documentation which illustrates the total cost of the repair. AMEX will then refund you said amount.

I can take a stab at this one, John, although I don't know much about your DSP-A1. Most processors do not apply any bass management, channel trim, or speaker delay settings to multichannel analog inputs (all of that manipulation is done in the digital domain, and the multichannel analog input typically passes through without being converted A/D/A). Based on that, the typical advice is to set speaker sizes the same on the players as you do on the processor - and to set speaker distances/delays, and use a calibration disc with test tones to set the channel trims.

The 983H offers Pro Logic II processing for stereo sources. It's only done for analog outputs (or HDMI when outputting multichannel PCM, but that's not going to enter the equation here). Whether you prefer Pro Logic II or straight stereo for music is going to be a matter of personal preference. At one time, the "auto" mode did the same thing as "on" (always applied Pro Logic II to a stereo source, whether there was Pro Logic steering embedded in the source or not), but that was back during beta testing and I frankly haven't looked to see what the current firmware offers in this regard. The other Pro Logic II settings are described in the 983H's manual, but to paraphrase it I'll just say that they are standard Pro Logic II controls defined by Dolby Labs. The "Movie" mode bypasses the other settings, but the "Music" mode allows you to apply additional control over how the stereo signal is distributed to the center and surrounds.

I don't live in the US. Shipping and custom taxes are VERY expensives for me.

For me it would be better to sell the 983 here and buy the new one for full price so it's a no no for me.

I am responding to Smarty-pants, BTW

I can take a stab at this one, John, although I don't know much about your DSP-A1. Most processors do not apply any bass management, channel trim, or speaker delay settings to multichannel analog inputs (all of that manipulation is done in the digital domain, and the multichannel analog input typically passes through without being converted A/D/A). Based on that, the typical advice is to set speaker sizes the same on the players as you do on the processor - and to set speaker distances/delays, and use a calibration disc with test tones to set the channel trims.

The 983H offers Pro Logic II processing for stereo sources. It's only done for analog outputs (or HDMI when outputting multichannel PCM, but that's not going to enter the equation here). Whether you prefer Pro Logic II or straight stereo for music is going to be a matter of personal preference. At one time, the "auto" mode did the same thing as "on" (always applied Pro Logic II to a stereo source, whether there was Pro Logic steering embedded in the source or not), but that was back during beta testing and I frankly haven't looked to see what the current firmware offers in this regard. The other Pro Logic II settings are described in the 983H's manual, but to paraphrase it I'll just say that they are standard Pro Logic II controls defined by Dolby Labs. The "Movie" mode bypasses the other settings, but the "Music" mode allows you to apply additional control over how the stereo signal is distributed to the center and surrounds.

Thanks Gonk; I'm still unsure about the DSP-A1, but that makes the Pro Logic II matter clearer.

Hi, everybody.

I already get my Oppo. Order set on Aug. 8th and device arrived on Aug. 14th., but it is waiting for me to pick it up as I'm foreign and I will be in the States in a couple of weeks, so I can't even see the package.

So these 2 weeks I was out of the forum, just to surprised today about the chipset issue.

1) Which chipset is carrying my machine? Does somebody have a clue?
2) Which of the chipset is better? the newer ABT2010 or the originals ABT102/1018.
3) I read that some of you are very angry about the issue, but could not find out yet what are the differences between both implementations.
4) Some of the Techies here (you know who you are, Neuro, Bill, etc), could explain that issue a lil' further in terms of Pic. Quality, Sound Quality or whatever ....not only the issue about if this solution is cheaper or not for OPPO themselves.

Thank you.

Mantas.

1) Which chipset is carrying my machine? Does somebody have a clue?
You'll have to pop the top and look for yourself to be sure.

2) Which of the chipset is better? the newer ABT2010 or the originals ABT102/1018
The implentation of both chip(s) in this player is indentical in performance. No difference.

3) I read that some of you are very angry about the issue, but could not find out yet what are the differences between both implementations.

Only one fellow was "angry".


4) Some of the Techies here (you know who you are, Neuro, Bill, etc), could explain that issue a lil' further in terms of Pic. Quality, Sound Quality or whatever ....not only the issue about if this solution is cheaper or not for OPPO themselves.

Neuromancer has already said both "versions" of the player have, and will have identical performance going forward.

1) Which chipset is carrying my machine? Does somebody have a clue?
If your Serial number starts with a 4, it is the ABT2010. If the serial number starts with "3" or lower, it is the ABT102/1018.
2) Which of the chipset is better? the newer ABT2010 or the originals ABT102/1018.
They are the same. No difference, at all.
3) I read that some of you are very angry about the issue, but could not find out yet what are the differences between both implementations.
These complaints are by people who demand that they receive a ABT102/1018 solution as originally advertised by OPPO. They have no claims that there is an actual performance difference between the solutions.
4) Some of the Techies here (you know who you are, Neuro, Bill, etc), could explain that issue a lil' further in terms of Pic. Quality, Sound Quality or whatever ....not only the issue about if this solution is cheaper or not for OPPO themselves.
As said, there is no difference at all. The change to the ABT2010 came bout due to to ABT, their chipset vendor, switching to this solution exclusively. The ABT102/1018 is no longer in production.

Something strange has been occurring on the 983 lately...
During the past week or so,I have been playing quite a few backup and original DVDs......I always turn on the CC option due to a slight hearing loss...During this period,I have never once seen the "Thin White Line" that occasionally appears....It has never detracted from my viewing experience..but I know it is quite an issue with some owners..
Just curious tho as to wether this has happened to anyone else?:confused:

Something strange has been occurring on the 983 lately...
During the past week or so,I have been playing quite a few backup and original DVDs......I always turn on the CC option due to a slight hearing loss...During this period,I have never once seen the "Thin White Line" that occasionally appears....It has never detracted from my viewing experience..but I know it is quite an issue with some owners..
Just curious tho as to wether this has happened to anyone else?:confused:

You mean subtitles enabled on the player, or closed-captions as recognized by the display? The later works only over 480i analog connections. (I haven't tested this myself as my display has no CC option).

I've noticed no changes.

-Bill

Something strange has been occurring on the 983 lately...
During the past week or so,I have been playing quite a few backup and original DVDs......I always turn on the CC option due to a slight hearing loss...During this period,I have never once seen the "Thin White Line" that occasionally appears....It has never detracted from my viewing experience..but I know it is quite an issue with some owners..
Just curious tho as to wether this has happened to anyone else?:confused:

Having the same problem. White lines on the screen left unter.

wojtek, you were kind enough to point out to me that analogue connections to my DSP-A1 would be superior than digital. Can you, or anyone here, answer a couple of questions?

Hooked up to the Yamaha DSP-A1 via analogue, I'm assuming that while the Oppo sorts out the digital processing, the Yamaha still handles bass management and therefore I should set all speakers to 'large', rather than setting my centre and rears to 'small'?

I'm a little confused by the 'Pro Logic II' setting. The Yamaha is not, as you know, a Pro Logic II amp. However, do I apply this setting (is the Oppo doing some sort of Pro Logic II processing itself), and if so, should I then further apply 'auto' as the output; I don't know what the hell the other settings would do, particularly 'Pro Logic' - can you clarify?

I couldn't see much point to the 'Pro Logic II' setting until tonight BTW, when I finally hooked us some mp3 files via a USB - and what a difference. I might even invest in some SACDs...

John:

I am not sure that I can satisfactorily answer your question, but I know that DSP-A1 has a crossover permanently set at 90Hz for its bass management for the analog inputs. I was advised some time ago to set all the speakers to large in the Yamaha, and I did. Oppo is using fixed 80 Hz crossover. I set all the speakers to Large in the Oppo, but now I am not so sure that that is an optimal setting.

John:

I am not sure that I can satisfactorily answer your question, but I know that DSP-A1 has a crossover permanently set at 90Hz for its bass management for the analog inputs. I was advised some time ago to set all the speakers to large in the Yamaha, and I did. Oppo is using fixed 80 Hz crossover. I set all the speakers to Large in the Oppo, but now I am not so sure that that is an optimal setting.

Hmmm; food for thought. Thank you wojtek.

If the processor's analog input has a fixed analog crossover, I would definitely recommend setting all speakers to "large" and the sub to "on" - don't want two crossovers in series so close together.

Thanks gonk; that's the setting I currently have on the Oppo, but I do have my rears and centre set to 'small' on the Yamaha - it sounds mighty fine, so I guess I should stop worrying!

The settings on the Yamaha only affect digital inputs (or analog stereo inputs that get converted to digital), and the 983H's speaker settings only affect the multichannel analog output (and in some cases HDMI, but that's not a concern in this case). That means you are fine - and ready to start kicking back and listening. ;)

Has anyone compared the 983 to the new Toshiba XD-E500?

Has anyone compared the 983 to the new Toshiba XD-E500? No, but based on a growing number of AVSForum reviews, the XD-E500 isn't looking good. It uses the budget Zoran Vaddis 966 chip for de-interlacing, which cannot hold a candle to the ABT chip in the OPPO DV-983H. The sharpness and other "features" of the XD-E500, are artificial enhancements that can be matched by cranking up the sharpness and saturation of other DVD players. It has very limited picture control, it cannot pillar-box 4:3 content, and it seems to have issues with Blacker-than-Black.

In its favor, it has 24fps capability, but is it "true" 24p - directly off the disk, or is it "reconstructed" 24p (applied after the inverse 3:2 pull down process)? And how reliable is it, especially with bad edits and video material?

Here's what CNET had to say about the new features of the XD-E500:
Toshiba XD-E500 (http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-xd-e500/4505-6463_7-33224998.html)
So what's Toshiba's secret sauce to "breathe new life" into DVDs, as the company likes to say? Brace yourself videophiles: edge enhancement.

One of the technologies behind XDE is Sharp Mode, which is supposed to make edges sharp and get "one step closer to high definition." The problem with edge enhancement, as the CNET Glossary page notes, is that it actually obscures detail and increases noise with high-quality sources like DVD.

...In addition to Sharp Mode, there are two other settings affecting image quality: Color Mode and Contrast Mode. Again, when we saw the demonstration, the conditions were less than ideal, but our early impression was that the two modes tended to blow out the image, similar to what an HDTV looks like in "vivid" mode.

...While we're skeptical that XDE will impress home theater enthusiasts, it's possible that other buyers will prefer the image enhancement of XDE technology. Like the showroom floor "torch" mode on TVs, it makes an image appear to have more punch in a brightly lit room, although videophiles will find the effect unnatural.

Gary

It uses the budget Zoran Vaddis 966 chip for de-interlacing, which cannot hold a candle to the ABT chip in the OPPO DV-983H.


Gary


Okay im not that familiar with de-interlacing. I am currently sending my toshiba a 1080i signal to my samsung sp-h710 projector(720p). The Samsung has the Farojuda (sp?) processor which is the same one used in the Oppo 981 & 971. Does that mean that my Samsung is deinterlacing the signal?

I would love to get the 983 however the price point is a little too high for me especially after reading the Cnet review on the 983 and they said there were subtle improvements in picture quality between the 981 & 983. I already have the 971 and dont want to spend $399 for a small improvement in PQ.

The Cnet review stated:

"We also put the DV-983H up against the DV-981HD, which costs $229. Watching Seabiscuit again, and switching between the two players, we could notice subtle differences. The DV-981HD had just a few minor jaggies in the background that we didn't see on the DV-983H, and as the camera panned some of the old black-and-white photos, the DV-983H looked just a smidgen smoother. You'll have to have a pretty sharp eye for details to see differences such as this--and we may even miss them if we're caught up in a movie--but the DV-983H definitely gets our nod for image quality."

I definitely do not have that sharp an eye when it comes to viewing different DVD players. The combination of the CNET statement and $399 price tag kept me from pulling the trigger but still I would like to have one if only they were cheaper.

Okay im not that familiar with de-interlacing. I am currently sending my toshiba a 1080i signal to my samsung sp-h710 projector(720p). The Samsung has the Farojuda (sp?) processor which is the same one used in the Oppo 981 & 971. Does that mean that my Samsung is deinterlacing the signal?

I would love to get the 983 however the price point is a little too high for me especially after reading the Cnet review on the 983 and they said there were subtle improvements in picture quality between the 981 & 983. I already have the 971 and dont want to spend $399 for a small improvement in PQ.

The Cnet review stated:

"We also put the DV-983H up against the DV-981HD, which costs $229. Watching Seabiscuit again, and switching between the two players, we could notice subtle differences. The DV-981HD had just a few minor jaggies in the background that we didn't see on the DV-983H, and as the camera panned some of the old black-and-white photos, the DV-983H looked just a smidgen smoother. You'll have to have a pretty sharp eye for details to see differences such as this--and we may even miss them if we're caught up in a movie--but the DV-983H definitely gets our nod for image quality."

I definitely do not have that sharp an eye when it comes to viewing different DVD players. The combination of the CNET statement and $399 price tag kept me from pulling the trigger but still I would like to have one if only they were cheaper.
Simple:
Sell the 971 and get the 983, you will NOT regret it!:cool:

The Cnet review stated:

"We also put the DV-983H up against the DV-981HD, which costs $229. Watching Seabiscuit again, and switching between the two players, we could notice subtle differences. The DV-981HD had just a few minor jaggies in the background that we didn't see on the DV-983H, and as the camera panned some of the old black-and-white photos, the DV-983H looked just a smidgen smoother. You'll have to have a pretty sharp eye for details to see differences such as this--and we may even miss them if we're caught up in a movie--but the DV-983H definitely gets our nod for image quality."


That comparison was made on a 50" plasma or lcd monitor. With a projector such differences are likely to be quite major differences if you have a large image size. You probably have macroblocking artifacts as well which you may not notice at the moment, but you will certainly get a much cleaner image when they are gone. (The 983 does not have that artifact). With the excellent Oppo return policy why not give it a try as, if you are not satisfied, there is nothing to lose in giving it a try is there?

I would love to get the 983 however the price point is a little too high for me especially after reading the Cnet review on the 983 and they said there were subtle improvements in picture quality between the 981 & 983. I already have the 971 and dont want to spend $399 for a small improvement in PQ.

I'm viewing on a 52" LCD and took the leap from the 971 to the 983. 'Leap' is the right word - we are takling a 'night and day' difference in quality and performance, visually and audibly.

Okay im not that familiar with de-interlacing. If you are really interested, see the excellent Progressive Scan DVD (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html) article on the "SECRETS of Home Theater and High Fidelity" website, which discusses common DVD decoding and de-interlacing problems, and their effects. The highly respected DVD Benchmark at the SECRETS rates the OPPO players very highly. The 983 is the only player ever to receive a perfect score for de-interlacing and core performance. To understand the scores, read the article, Guide to the Progressive Scan Shootouts (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_1/dvd-benchmark-guide-to-progressive-scan-shootout-1-2003.html).
I am currently sending my toshiba a 1080i signal to my samsung sp-h710 projector(720p). The Samsung has the Farojuda (sp?) processor which is the same one used in the Oppo 981 & 971. Does that mean that my Samsung is deinterlacing the signal? Yes, the projector has to de-interlace a 1080i signal, so 1080i is not usually the best resolution to send from a DVD player, because the player has to de-interlace the 480i signal on the disk to 480p, then scale to 1080p, then re-interlace for 1080i, then the display has to de-interlace again. Furthermore, a 720p display has to scale the image again as well. And lastly, the Faroudja chip in the 971 does not handle interlaced output quite as well as progressive. So there are simply too many steps where errors can creep in. 720p is the best resolution to feed your projector.
I would love to get the 983 however the price point is a little too high for me especially after reading the Cnet review on the 983 and they said there were subtle improvements in picture quality between the 981 & 983. I already have the 971 and dont want to spend $399 for a small improvement in PQ.

...I definitely do not have that sharp an eye when it comes to viewing different DVD players. The combination of the CNET statement and $399 price tag kept me from pulling the trigger but still I would like to have one if only they were cheaper. Well, only you can make that decision, but consider some of the differences that the 983 offers in comparison with Faroudja players like your 971. Some of those differences are noted in My OPPO DV-983H Review (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13348563#post13348563). The 971 is still an excellent player. But if macroblocking is a concern, and you can't afford the 983, and if your eye is not that discerning, then you might want to consider the 980.

Gary

Well although I would love to get one there are two reasons why I cant at this time. The main reason is I promised to tell the wife before making any major electronic purchase and I know 100% she would say no. I would have to buy it without telling her and hope she wouldnt notice. I recently purchased the AX-200 projector without telling her and swapped it in place of my old ae900 hoping she wouldnt notice. It worked for two days until she took a close look at it and freaked out. I dont blame her it as it is my 5th projector and I am currently only using 3 of them..lol.

The second reason is if I am gonna spend $399 I would rather get another PS3 for my gaming room. I currently have my PS3 connected to my projectors and primarily use it as a DVD/Blu ray player. I would like to get a second PS3 for my dedicated gaming room and i think i could do a good job of hiding it from the wife in that room. I am gonna wait and hopefully Oppo will drop the price in the future or I can find a good deal on one and then I might consider taking a chance and getting one. I doubt it will ever drop in price soon as i dont think Oppo has ever dropped prices.

My 971, PS3 and toshiba xd-e500 (still playing with it and deciding wether I am gonna keep it.) will keep me happy for now. I really dont have such a sharp eye when it comes to dvd viewing. I havent really noticed macroblocking on my 971. The only time I can recall noticing it was at the beginning of Pans Labyrinth when the little girl is running up the stairs. I also own the Oppo 970 which doesnt suffer from the macroblocing issue although I have it hooked up to my plasma and not my DLP projector.

One last note. I decided to research to determine if my SP-H710 projector would use it's Farajuda processor if fed a 1080i signal. It appears the Farajuda processor only comes into play on the analog inputs when feda 480i signal. Sounds ridiculous but the samsung projector takes the 1080i signal converts it to 1080p and then downconverts to 720p using something called the Genesis chipset. I have to feed my samsung projector a 1080i signal with my Toshiba DVD player because the Toshiba's enhanced detail feature only works in 1080i or 1080p mode.

Thanks for all the info and maybe in the future I will be a proud owner of a 983. Cmon Oppo and drop the price!!

I'm viewing on a 52" LCD and took the leap from the 971 to the 983. 'Leap' is the right word - we are takling a 'night and day' difference in quality and performance, visually and audibly.

Wow, it's a long time since I posted on an oppo thread! Night and day? Not yet sure about that. I've just moved up from the 971 to the 983 after many years of oppo enjoyment, teamed up with an ae1000. I was slightly disappointed. On disks that were already good things look much the same to me--which shows what a craker the 971 is; the only upside I've noticed so far is no macroblocking. The real difference is with poor DVDs--things that were unwatchable are suddenly watchable on a PJ at 72". Also the zoom is very good.

However, I will persevere and see how I feel about things over a longer period time.

Wow, it's a long time since I posted on an oppo thread! Night and day? Not yet sure about that. I've just moved up from the 971 to the 983 after many years of oppo enjoyment, teamed up with an ae1000. I was slightly disappointed. On disks that were already good things look much the same to me--which shows what a craker the 971 is; the only upside I've noticed so far is no macroblocking. The real difference is with poor DVDs--things that were unwatchable are suddenly watchable on a PJ at 72". Also the zoom is very good.

However, I will persevere and see how I feel about things over a longer period time.

I can only call it as I see it (which is all any of us can do); and I stand by my assessment on my display - 'night and day'.

Two issues, a degree of macro-blocking and some discs that showed severe banding, have now disappeared. I will, however, concede that the difference between the players is not so pronounced (though still apparent to me at least) when watching more modern films as it is when viewing something like 'The Adventures of Robin Hood', 'The Searchers', 'Apocalypse Now' or 'The Third Man' (and all of them excellent transfers) which really do seem to benefit more from the Oppo's wonderful presentation.

In fact, the difference is breath-taking. Honest.

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the ABT VRS Test DVD?

thx

Night and day? Not yet sure about that.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I think people are getting false hopes if they expect any SD-DVD player to put them into a new realm of video quality.

To me, "night and day" means something like going from VHS to DVD, or from smallish 4:3 CRTs to large wide displays. The differences between better quality dvd players is more subtle than that, although the differences between them do loom larger in your mind once you become aware of them.

-Bill