In response to a recent request by Tzucc, I had suggested that the next BAAS meeting be held at my house so that we could all welcome him back. Besides I am still anxious to show Tzucc what an 18 wpc SET amp could sound like played through the Wilson X-2. Of course I am anxious as well to get his opinion on the difference between my prior XS sub and now a pair of JL Audio Gotham subs. Those BAAS members who have heard grellberg's system know it to be one of the finest around. He just had some changes done on his Hyperion speakers and I just got back from his house for a listening sesion. He was using his CAT JL 3's to facilitate burn-in on the speakers and IMO the speakers sound even than before.
So here's my suggestion....We still have the Lamm ML 3 Reference amps on loan. I am going to have them at my house this Saturday March 8th and we will have a home and home session. We will start at my house at 4:00PM with some demos of the new home theater and subs. Then some audio beginning with my Lamm ML 2.1's and as we break for some refreshments I will hook up and warm up the Lamm ML 3 Reference for some listening comparison. As I have said previously the ML 3 is probably the best amp on the planet and the one by which all others will be compared. At $139K they are what dreams are made of and are only 30 wpc SET. All told we should be done at my house by 7:00 and then we will dismantle the ML 3's and take them back to grellbergs to hear them as well as hil CAT JL 3's on his system. Should be a fun night. We should be done by 9:00

Space will be limited so I am asking that those interested PM me for confirmation and head count. BAAS members will be given first priority due to space and time constraints

So here's my suggestion....We still have the Lamm ML 3 Reference amps on loan. I am going to have them at my house this Saturday March 8th and we will have a home and home session. We will start at my house at 4:00PM with some demos of the new home theater and subs. Then some audio beginning with my Lamm ML 2.1's and as we break for some refreshments I will hook up and warm up the Lamm ML 3 Reference for some listening comparison.

Space will be limited so I am asking that those interested PM me for confirmation and head count. BAAS members will be given first priority due to space and time constraints

OB,

I certainly would like to attend!!!

OB,

I certainly would like to attend!!!


Great. Look forward to seeing you Greg

Count me IN! Glad to have an op to hear the Lamms.

Carl

I would love to hear an 18 watt amp power those monsters!! Thats like 3 watts per driver....almost seems impossible to reproduce life like sound levels..could the nice physicist explain how that's done?:)

Aren't they like 96dB efficiency? that would turn an iPod headphone jack into an Ampzilla......

I'm in NorCal (Davis) until the following Wed. morning- when I drive back to IL. I'd love to attend if there's space. Please let me know if that's possible.

Dan

I'm in NorCal (Davis) until the following Wed. morning- when I drive back to IL. I'd love to attend if there's space. Please let me know if that's possible.

Dan

let's stay in touch. Not sure if it will work out yet but distinct possibility. Dan, I thought you were just a videophile

hi guys, thank you OB very much for arranging to indulge my curiosity. I need to check with the human calendar keeper as to my availability... I should know by noon. Get back you asap. Thanks!

I would love to hear an 18 watt amp power those monsters!! Thats like 3 watts per driver....almost seems impossible to reproduce life like sound levels..could the nice physicist explain how that's done?:)

in reality, the proof of how they can make lots of sound is simply in the numbers. 18 solid watts. (i think) 94 db 1 watt one meter. DO the math and it is very clear.

94 dB 1 watt. 10 watts 104 dB. 3 dB down for every doubling of the distance, so if the seat is 4 meters away it drops 6 dB so you still have 98 dB. that is (for the record) REALLY FREAKIN LOUD. think constant here. peaks can be instantaneously much more. Even if we go to 8 metres (pretty far) you are still only down to 95dB. and we still have 8 watts left.

Perception is why we run around with many hundreds of watts. not reality.

Yes there are some cases where we need lots more. mostly though, we do not. we just think we do. In systems with a good voltage regulator where you can monitor current use, it always an eye opener to see how much power you are ACTUALLY using.

When doing commercial work, one of the simplest rules we used (that was reasonably good) was simply one watt per person. so a large auditorium that seats 500 would call for a 500 watt amp. now start to scale back to your living room.

I would love to hear an 18 watt amp power those monsters!! Thats like 3 watts per driver....almost seems impossible to reproduce life like sound levels..could the nice physicist explain how that's done?:)
joeycalda,

Easy - OB's Wilson X-2 Alexandrias have an input sensitivity of 94-95 dB/w @ 1m

The X-2s are VERY efficient - they don't need much power.

Yes there are some cases where we need lots more. mostly though, we do not. we just think we do. In systems with a good voltage regulator where you can monitor current use, it always an eye opener to see how much power you are ACTUALLY using.
Dizzman,

EXACTLY - that and that the response is logarithmic.

If you back off your volume a small amount - you can reduce your power usage by
a factor of 10. In fact, if you halve your power use - a drop of 3 dB - is hardly noticed.

With very efficient speakers like the Wilson X-2; the 18 W Lamms can drive the
speakers to volume levels that would take the usual multi-hundred watt amps that
we're used to - to drive less efficient speakers.

That and because of the logarithmic response - you just don't get much volume
for the amount of power you put in at high power. You get more "bang for your buck"
at low power. Just look at a curve of Log(x) vs. x.

and a really good 50 watt amp is sufficient for most needs (other than really inefficient hungry speakers). and i would rather have a great 50 watt amp than a mediocre 500 watt that i only use 50 watts of anyways.

why do speakers manufacturers make amp hungry speakers (like mine) Revel Salons. What is the advantage or disadvantage of both low and high sensitivity speakers?

There usually are trade offs?

Easy - OB's Wilson X-2 Alexandrias have an input sensitivity of 94-95 dB/w @ 1m
I would rather just state the Alexandrias rather the OB's Alexandrias so this doesn't get personal.

Joey

It was in fact Dizzman and Morbius who convinced me to buy the ML 2.1's when like you I was worried if there was enough power to drive them at SPL to whichh I am accustomed. Truth be known I have played them at near ear bleeding levels and only twice have I heard the amps clip.
Dizz are you in for Saturday?

i would love to be there, but i will take the high road and not desert the wife with the kids. I am heading out of town on Monday as well.

As far as speaker design Joey, it is the trade off in the components they choose. one is not necessarily better than the other, they have issues of cost, performance throughout the entire frequency response... etc. Some things just come out that way. a designer could attempt to design for a specific sensitivity, but that would be (in my opinion) a bad way to do things.

Look at it this way though, lets take a speaker with an 85dB sensitivity.

go add 20 watts, 105dB. now lets get that same 4 metres away. we are down to 99db. more than sufficient. even if we went 8 metres. we are still only down to 96 dB!!!!

So in reality, you need a 20 watt amp with those speakers. Sure it is nice to have additional headroom, but even if we say "double it!" we are still under the 50 watt amp i mentioned.

Perception! And of course specs that are real! so a true 50 watt, that can handle instantaneous peaks on top of that (the double the wattage i mentioned should be more than fine for that) and speakers that are truly that sensitivity, and do not do really odd things in their spectrum.

But overall, specmanship is usually the rule of the day. You will not generally find an audio engineer looking for a large amp unless he is building a drive rack for the FOH rig. Hewill be more than happy with a much smaller one. (or the old used one he got for free :D ) Curt? :D

why do speakers manufacturers make amp hungry speakers (like mine) Revel Salons. What is the advantage or disadvantage of both low and high sensitivity speakers?
joeycalda,

Having an amp hungry speaker usually isn't a goal - it's something that you have to
accept as a result of other design choices.

For example, my speakers are Apogee ribbon dipoles. The Apogees, especially the
Full Range and Scintilla with their < 1 ohm nominal impedances were notorious amp
killers. In fact, the "claim to fame" of the early Krell amps was that they were one of
the few that could drive Apogees.

A ribbon driver is inherently a "single turn" driver. A speaker with conventional voice
coil can always get more force by increasing the number of turns in the voice coil.

Apogee couldn't do that - a ribbon is "single turn". Apogee put in the most powerful
magnets that they could get at the time - Samarium-Cobalt - but that just didn't give
enough force to adequately drive the ribbon. Since they couldn't up the turns, and
were maxed out on magnetic field - they did the one thing they had left - increase the
current; which you can do only by lowering the impedance. Hence the early Apogees
had impedances that hovered around 1 ohm.

In order to drive a low impedance Apogee; you have to have an "arc-welder" amp if you
are going to get large SPL levels [ People have had success with lower powered amps
if they have small volume listening spaces and don't need prodigious SPLs. ]

Apogee didn't set out to build current hungry speakers as a goal - but they were forced
into that by the design decision to make ribbons; and the limitations on magnets.

Apogee is now out of business. However, two companies now make "Apogee-like"
speakers; namely Analysis Audio, and the new Apogee Acoustics in Australia.

Both of these companies take advantage of better magnet technology available now;
and their current offerings are no where near as hard to drive as the original Apogees:

http://www.analysisaudio.com/Main.htm

http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/synergy1_5.html

As I recall, BAAS member Carl replaced his Apogees with Analysis Audio Epsilons.

Hi, Greg,

Yes, I have Analysis Epsilons now and love them, especially since they suit my preference for active crossover and SET amps a bit better than Apogees.
I still have my rebuilt Apogee Stages in mothballs for backup and use Apogee models for center and surrounds. I think choosing between Analysis or Apogee would be a matter of choice and particular implementation, they both have unique positive qualities and I still think of Apogees as among the best sounding speakers. The Analysis speakers are incredibly fast and delicate sounding albeit with some lesser body and tone compared to Aps, different kinds of charm for each.

Yes, I have Analysis Epsilons now and love them, especially since they suit my preference for active crossover and SET amps a bit better than Apogees.
Carl,

Yes - I entirely expect the Analysis Audio to be better with SET amps than the old
Apogees. Analysis Audio took advantage of the advances in magnetic materials;
and the magnets in your Epsilons are stronger than those in the Apogee Stages.

Hence, the Epsilons need less current for the same amount of force; and hence
less power - so they are more compatible with SET amps which tend to be on
the shy side of the power spectrum.

Carl,

Yes - I entirely expect the Analysis Audio to be better with SET amps than the old
Apogees. Analysis Audio took advantage of the advances in magnetic materials;
and the magnets in your Epsilons are stronger than those in the Apogee Stages.

Hence, the Epsilons need less current for the same amount of force; and hence
less power - so they are more compatible with SET amps which tend to be on
the shy side of the power spectrum.

Well, if you are curious, you can come over and listen before Ob's gala event, since it doesn't start til 4. Let me know, you have expressed an interest in the Analysis speakers before.

please count me in. my knowledge base increases every time i am in your company, and the wife knows that this will start a new wave of purchasing big boy toys.

I cannot make it but everyone that attends should have one heck of a time.
Those ML3's are just amazing.

Space is almost full.
Room for 2 more. If interested please contact me by way of PM

Happy to report to all BAAS members that Tzuc has confirmed. Looking forward to getting his opinion on these Gothams

Happy to report to all BAAS members that Tzuc has confirmed. Looking forward to getting his opinion on these Gothams

Tzucc can probably phone his wife to turn on the rotary sub, you can open the windows and make a direct comparison.

Just brought the Lamm ML 3 Reference amps back from Grellberg. Got them upstairs and wired so tomorrow we will be able to A/B my ML 2.1 vs the ML 3.
4:00 PM my house for all attendees.

lol... I am leaving here in a bit...

You naughty boys. You all stayed out way to late and drank to much wine. Really sad I had to depart early (after 7+ hours). In anycase many thanks to both OB and Mike for the greatest sounds I've heard. Not just hyperbole. It's late and will expound more, but it's Daylight saving night, and I need to catch the as much of the little ZZZZ's that I usually get. I guess right about now Tony is just starting to go to work! It's hard to be such the Wonderboy. To all that weren't there, so sorry that you missed out, it was an experience. Boy the Chess Club really knows how to party don't we?

Cheers,

Edward

I'm so sorry I missed this one guys, I had to attend CME credit in the city yesterday. Though it was nice to bump into a few old friends of mine. But boy, I really wanted to hear both OBs new setup and hopefully, back to Grellbergs place and hear the new Hyperions.

Great day and evening.Started at 3:30 and I left grellberg's early (11:00) as things were still going on. It was fun to get together with everyone and to meet Dan Francis, all the way from Illinois.We heard some terrific music and fired up the C3X1080 between listening to the ML 2.1's and the ML 3's. We were bothered by an annoying ground loop hum on the ML 3's but nonetheless they sure sounded wonderful. Tzucc preferred the ML 2.1's :( but he enjoyed the Gotham's especially when we played the battle scenes from Master and Commander and Scene 4 from Ratatouille. Grellberg's system sounded spectacular as always.
List of attendees
Me
Grellberg
twothbeave
Tzucc
els
ddean
Dan Francis
Morbius
Health Nut
Ron Party
Wayne
cjfrbw
TerryM4
Thanks to grellberg for opening his wine cellar which is amazing and special thanks to ddean for driving me both ways as this allowed me to partake in some fine red wines

OB, Grellberg;

I had a blast! That was just what I needed right before the long drive back across-country. The music was awesome, the systems were stellar, the wine was great, and the company was the best of all!
On a sad note: 1.) me likey tubes now, 2.) vinyl sounded better than cd, 3.) Meitner is the only way to go for digital-music......damn you....do have any idea how much $$$ last night is going to cost me? :D:D:D:D

Anyway, it was great to finally meet all the guys at BAAS it really was a great Chess Club meeting. What was the term I used?.....Nerd Heaven!

Dan

For all who attended and loved that master of Pink Floyd's WYWH send me your addresses if you want me to burn you a copy.

Comment of the night was from Dan after he got up from the "sweet spot" having heard three of his demo tracks and I asked him how he liked those ML3's......"they were OK but it is hard to ignore that hum:)"

You guys are going to have to give me some ideas as to how to remedy the light given ioff by the ML 3 tubes as you can see what it does to the screen

Thanks to all for coming. Special kudos to Ron for the killer wine.

Vinyl folks-Be sure to get in on the Music Matters Jazz Blue notes!
These will go out of print and go up in value like the DCC's did.

Finally-after hearing the Doors (24/96 master to cd) and Nirvana (24/96 to vinyl), anyone still not convinced? OB needs a table!!!!

Grellberg,

As I said last night a truly a revelation! I can honestly say I have never heard recorded/playback music like that lacquer. If I closed my eyes (guess that's why we listened by only the illumination of beautiful glowing tubes) I would have sworn we were in that living room with those brothers playing live for us. If any of you others have not experienced one of these hand cut vinyls, I say experienced because it's not merely listening, you haven't had the pleasure of true audio bliss. We really have to thank Mike, as everytime one of these disks are played they degrade. So it was quite a treat that he shared with us this very special 45. Grellberg's Rockports and total system are sooo dialed. Great to know that perfect signal path truly can result in perfect sound. So much for room treatments. Glad I'm not the only one who believes in ficus tube traps! Nothing but stripped down purity of music.

Phenomenal! When you have something that great I you have to share it with those who can appreciate it, but none the less a most gracious host.

Thanks for showing us all how good it can get.

Cheers,

Edward

Being a bit of a Cork Dork, I would love to know what you guys were drinking last night.

My thanks too to Ob and Grellberg for a fantastic evening and great program. It is hard to believe that these two could raise the bar again with their respective systems but they certainly did. Ob's new home theater is likewise remarkable.
The Lamm ML3's are hard to describe, as is often the case with the high end SET amps, but everything was amazing (except for the annoying hum, which didn't really intrude on the program material for me once the music started). Given the Russian designers preference for the various Russian tubes, I thought the ML3 might be on the clinical side, but it was as rich and smooth as anything I have ever heard with awesome powers of projection.
Tzucc had the best advice for the bright tubes on the ML3, just throw a wet blanket over them, problem solved!

Portable black hole field generator... problem solved. Just make sure you have it set right...

Morbius, you have a few of those around right?

Thanks to all for coming. Special kudos to Ron for the killer wine.

Vinyl folks-Be sure to get in on the Music Matters Jazz Blue notes!
These will go out of print and go up in value like the DCC's did.

Finally-after hearing the Doors (24/96 master to cd) and Nirvana (24/96 to vinyl), anyone still not convinced? OB needs a table!!!!

the table has always been on my drawing board but as often is the case I got distracted and redid my HT. Then the table surfaced in my sensorium once again but the mistake was made when grellberg got the ML3's on loan from Vladimir. For me hearing them was an almost out of body experience as I have never heard anything in audio as good. For me it bested even the experience twothbeave had listening to the lacquer 45's. Bottom line for me is that "IF" I were to ever make another purchase for that room it would be the ML3's as they are "as good as it gets". Just can't throw a wet towel over them however as Tzucc were to suggest

Jeffmac, we missed you. OB has successfully integrated the Gothams into his 2 channel system. I think most everyone agreed the subs belonged.

Last night was the first I can recall where I experienced both a bad and good buzz in the same evening. First there was the 60hz hum at OB's, but it was made up for, and then some, by the 4 glasses of wine at Grellberg's.

Jeffmac, we missed you. OB has successfully integrated the Gothams into his 2 channel system. I think most everyone agreed the subs belonged.

Last night was the first I can recall where I experienced both a bad and good buzz in the same evening. First there was the 60hz hum at OB's, but it was made up for, and then some, by the 4 glasses of wine at Grellberg's.

The humm is gone today. Go figure. Ron, as always thanks for providing such great music. The ELP tracks were great.

damn it OB... stop messing around and get a turntable!!!! You are denying US of tons of audio fun.... well unless Grellberg gives us the key to his room that is. Nice to meet you Grellberg, wish I was closer to you all.

Here is a page (http://fb.pikiwiki.com:8081/ewsfb/editor.jsp?YbLys65fDXZtqSi5UtwulA==) I worked on using the FB app I was up all night hacking on... went to sleep at 3am, not too bad!

Carl, played your CD twice thru now... I was gonna drop them on the above page, but don't want to get RIAA'd. Great great song selection... This BAAS has such an excellent body of knowledge on great recorded audio ... listening to material from the members is such a treat on top of the equipment used to render the sounds.

People from around the world reading this forum... make friends with OB and get invited out here... it's sick sick sick.

Back to work....

damn it OB... stop messing around and get a turntable!!!! You are denying US of tons of audio fun.... well unless Grellberg gives us the key to his room that is. Nice to meet you Grellberg, wish I was closer to you all.

Here is a page (http://fb.pikiwiki.com:8081/ewsfb/editor.jsp?YbLys65fDXZtqSi5UtwulA==) I worked on using the FB app I was up all night hacking on... went to sleep at 3am, not too bad!

Carl, played your CD twice thru now... I was gonna drop them on the above page, but don't want to get RIAA'd. Great great song selection... This BAAS has such an excellent body of knowledge on great recorded audio ... listening to material from the members is such a treat on top of the equipment used to render the sounds.

People from around the world reading this forum... make friends with OB and get invited out here... it's sick sick sick.

Back to work....

Tzucc

looks like a fun start up you are involved with

As good as the ML 2.1's are however they just cant hold a candle to the ML3. Twothbeave suggested that should I buy the ML 3's I sell the ML 2.1's to you. So I will give you first right of refusal.

The track that you heard was Track 8 called the Boll Weevil by Jimmie Lee Robinson


I too want to thank Carl as well as twothbeave for bringing some very fine music.

Here's a little more info on our boy Jimmie Lee:


http://www.cascadeblues.org/History/JimmieLeeRobinson.htm

-ahem, two words: Chicago Blues.

BTW- OB, it wasn't that I was unimpressed with the ML3s- if they're anything like (or better than) your 2.1s, then I'm sure they're great! My problem was that the installer in me wanted to push you out of the way and solve that ground-loop issue! I've spent the last 12 years of my life chasing those things in installs, I guess it's kind of a compulsion now. :D

You know you're going to buy them anyway, so the next time I'm out in CA- I'll have to give you a call and listen again....oh the torture of time.

Dan

Here's a little more info on our boy Jimmie Lee:


http://www.cascadeblues.org/History/JimmieLeeRobinson.htm

-ahem, two words: Chicago Blues.

BTW- OB, it wasn't that I was unimpressed with the ML3s- if they're anything like (or better than) your 2.1s, then I'm sure they're great! My problem was that the installer in me wanted to push you out of the way and solve that ground-loop issue! I've spent the last 12 years of my life chasing those things in installs, I guess it's kind of a compulsion now. :D

You know you're going to buy them anyway, so the next time I'm out in CA- I'll have to give you a call and listen again....oh the torture of time.



Dan
Dan I was just being lazy last night for not having plugged the ML3's into the AC outlets that were being used for the ML 2.1's. These are 30 amp oulets using 6 gauge romex wire gounded at the street. I just didn't want to climb behind the equipment racks to doit. All of the outlets on the front wall are dedicated lines that I had installed for my gear whereas the outlets on the side walls that I used last night are common outlets which came with the house. So I got lazy and we had that annoying hum. Anyhow I am using the front outlets like I should have done and the hum is gone.

Dan it was a real pleasure to have met you and your wealth of knowledge last night came shining through. Thanks for the pearls

Tzucc

I reread your question about the track on the album played and I was mistaken. Rather it was Track #1 (Uni Uno'a) from Into The Labyrinth by Dead Can't Dance brought by DDean. The entire album is a classic and your cup of tea.

Jeffmac, we missed you. OB has successfully integrated the Gothams into his 2 channel system. I think most everyone agreed the subs belonged.

Last night was the first I can recall where I experienced both a bad and good buzz in the same evening. First there was the 60hz hum at OB's, but it was made up for, and then some, by the 4 glasses of wine at Grellberg's.

Thanks Ron.

I got to hear the subs and X2's when OB was so kind to let me come over and see his video. I thought the intergration was excellent. The Gotham's are good but I think at least half the credit for the sound should go to the installers. They did an amazing job tuning the sound.

Thanks Ron.

I got to hear the subs and X2's when OB was so kind to let me come over and see his video. I thought the intergration was excellent. The Gotham's are good but I think at least half the credit for the sound should go to the installers. They did an amazing job tuning the sound.


Jeff the Gothams were indeed set up by the installers but only for HT. As a result when listening to audio there was too much mid bass bloat. I spent the last 2 weeks finding a proper crossover point as well as getting them in phase with the X-2's. It has made a world of difference and they are completely invisible in the system and remain omnidirectional. You will need another audition. I still have the ML 3's if you are interested

OB,

I hope you did enjoy the music. A little change of pace over the usual stuff we listen to. As I said when I got there, I didn't want to defile your system with my disc. Thanks again to all for indulging me, I hope it wasn't fatiguing as I feel I unjustly had an excessive amount of listening time. But it sure felt good.

Hmmmm, I knew it was not a good idea to finally get over to your place after all this time. What to upgrade first. I have to say the thing that really got me was that freakin' video. Yes the sound is absolutely fabulous, but I was expecting that. But now there's visual impact that's up to the task of matching that incomparable audio. Jealous again. +damn you got the car too! Retirement is truly grand.

Dan,

It was great to have your insight. Enjoyed your knowledge and backround history of alot of the inside stuff. Truly edifying. Now get back to the daughter of yours. Like I said you missed the bad parts. From this point out every moment is precious. She will actually know who you are and there's something new and wonderful daily. Don't miss anymore or you'll be kicking yourself in about 11 years. Remember you invest your time from here to the teenage years, they are much more likely to like you when that trouble time comes. Anyhow, have a safe trip home, get there in one piece and we hope to see you again soon!

Lucky us we have been so lucky to have such great guests. Always learn something new. Missed the usual suspects....like Dr Grant. Our loss is Texas' gain.

Edward

Well all I can say "is boy am I bad :(

I am finally all alone and am sitting down to a second listen of Carl's and twothbeaves music. Man are they great. I was so busy playing music and entertaining yesterday that I never got a chance to listen myself. What I heard however after the ML 3's were hooked up and standing off to the side was a larger presence of my right speaker. I couldn't really understand that especially when I was off to the left side of the room. I remember looking at the Ref3 to see if the balance was shifted more to the right but it wasn't. I thought there was something not right. Perhaps everyone listening was being too polite or I was overly anal. So here I am listening to some music by myself and now I know something is different. Turns out that when Health Nut and I were hooking up the ML 3's and trying to find some wiggle room the left amp is connected to the 4 ohm tap whereas the right amp is connected to the 8 ohm tap (where I prefer and have the ML 2.1's hooked up).
Did the proper connection and if you thought they were great last night, tonight they are simply breathtaking. The imaging is 3D. So much improvement that I feel that I gipped you guys last night and we need a second audition. As well the hum is gone so everything is dead on.
Twothbeave Track 8 on your album must be heard again.

Give me a call if anyone is interested. It is a must IMO

Twothbeave we really didn't get a chance to really have a look at the C3X 1080.


Carl, the last 4 tracks on your album are wonderful. Thanks for making me a copy

I bet this is why Tzucc preferred the ML 2.1's as he probably heard what I thought that I heard last night

Carl's mix is really good... on listen #5.... good stuff.
I updated the playlist on the page I made (http://fb.pikiwiki.com:8081/ewsfb/editor.jsp?YbLys65fDXZtqSi5UtwulA==)

next time, let's give Carl like ALOT more time to go thru his material :)

Carl's mix is really good... on listen #5.... good stuff.

I agree the last 4 tracks really lit up my ears

Sounds like an awesome meet, wish I lived closer to you guys!

We have our own group up here in Canada. Just went over to a guys house with McIntosh MC2K amps (3 chassis per side) powering Dynaudio Evidence Temptation. It's a great hobby especially when you meet other like-minded people.

Sounds like an awesome meet, wish I lived closer to you guys!

We have our own group up here in Canada. Just went over to a guys house with McIntosh MC2K amps (3 chassis per side) powering Dynaudio Evidence Temptation. It's a great hobby especially when you meet other like-minded people.

I am going to be back in Toronto end of May and early June for UofT Med School class reunion. Maybe you can host a meet

I will certainly be hosting a meet to do the Cloverfield movie and showcase some TRW bass. Stay tuned... will make sure to do it in HD if available.

Tzucc
read my post #49 and I think you will understand what you were hearing (or not) last night with my error on the ML 3. You need to listen one more time. BTW, if I bite on the 3's you have first right of refusal on my 2.1's

Sounds like an awesome meet, wish I lived closer to you guys!

We have our own group up here in Canada. Just went over to a guys house with McIntosh MC2K amps (3 chassis per side) powering Dynaudio Evidence Temptation. It's a great hobby especially when you meet other like-minded people.

-You know, the other like minded people part is what I think makes it so special. It's not like we all have the same preferences at all, there were certain things about OB's system that I really liked- and certain things about grellberg's system that I really liked, but there were other characteristics of both systems that were not in my preference- as I'm sure that others probably felt the same way. At one point, OB asked how we liked one cut of Warren Haynes, and I said it was awesome- but I had just wished it had been twice as loud, twothbeave looks at me and says "Me too! I'm glad I'm not the only one that felt that way!" It was neat to be able to bond with such a diverse group of people from different walks of life, and at different points in life- and to share this one common passion.

You have this respect for the other people in the group because everyone is trying to find what they feel is perfect (and tzucc put it best when he said it was like crack- the first taste is free, then it gets REALLY expensive!). We've all been bitten by the bug in some way or other, some of us have even made this hobby of ours our career. Yet, when you're there with a group of people that also dig this same thing as much as you do- it doesn't matter if you're a tube guy, or a vinyl guy, or a solid-state guy, or one who listens at low volume, or high volume.....everyone there is present for the same reasons- to respect the content we're trying to reproduce, and to respect and enjoy the efforts of a fellow hobbyist(s).

I had a wonderful time, and I really can't wait to do it again sometime when I'm back in CA for work- even if it's just a couple people.

Dan

dan,

a quick shout to say thank you for winning the prize for the greatest distance traveled. as a fellow big 10 alumni, my wolverines will defeat appalacian state if they play again! your professional insight was just as good in person as here on the forum.

oneobgyn remains my idol, and i greatly appreciate his time ,and the contribution everyone played in makjing the "meeting" or should i say "hearing" a tremendous afternoon. travel made me miss the second half of the event, but the replys are keeping me in the loop.

Thank you, guys, glad you enjoyed the selection. Several from the vault and some more recent discoveries. I have been trying to reconstruct a vinyl collection from tapes I made years ago from the Tulane campus radio station and other radio sources. Sadly, some music that I recorded on tapes I can't identify, and I have not been able to figure it out it from listening.
There is an lot of music out there, only time for some of it, and of course not everybody has the same taste, but it helps me in listening to these great systems to check out a little more of what is on the recordings.
(recorded to CD using Macintosh computer with OS X from SME 30 turntable, SME IV-VI arm, Clearaudio Harmony MG cartridge w. Soundsmith ruby cantilever, Manley Steelhead and Euriduce tube/transformer coupled preamp). I figured it was the only way I was going to get to hear vinyl on Ob's system.

Carl

Let me add to the chorus of thanks to OB & Grellberg for a wonderful evening. Two fabulous (yet very different systems) coupled with very gracious hospitality, not to mention the wonderful wine. From the comments, I think it's quite clear that a wonderful time was had by all who were fortunate enough to be able to attend....

Drew

the table has always been on my drawing board but as often is the case I got distracted and redid my HT. Then the table surfaced in my sensorium once again but the mistake was made when grellberg got the ML3's on loan from Vladimir.
OB,

Now that grellberg has the Meitner "one-box" in his system; I also think it is only fair
that you get a turntable for your system.:)

Thank You very much to OB and grellberg for hosting a most enjoyable afternoon and
evening.

It was another golden opportuningy to hear these fine playback systems; and to hear
some new music. After every BAAS meeting; I always order some new software from
what I heard during the audition.

I also have to echo that grellberg took audio reproduction to a new level when he played
the "lacquer" record. Since that was the very piece of vinyl that was cut by the lathe
from the master tape; it is as close to the master as one can get; and it proved its
pedigree. That was one of THE most realistic playbacks I have ever heard.

Thanks again to all.

-You know, the other like minded people part is what I think makes it so special. It's not like we all have the same preferences at all, there were certain things about OB's system that I really liked- and certain things about grellberg's system that I really liked, but there were other characteristics of both systems that were not in my preference- as I'm sure that others probably felt the same way. At one point, OB asked how we liked one cut of Warren Haynes, and I said it was awesome- but I had just wished it had been twice as loud, twothbeave looks at me and says "Me too! I'm glad I'm not the only one that felt that way!" It was neat to be able to bond with such a diverse group of people from different walks of life, and at different points in life- and to share this one common passion.

You have this respect for the other people in the group because everyone is trying to find what they feel is perfect (and tzucc put it best when he said it was like crack- the first taste is free, then it gets REALLY expensive!). We've all been bitten by the bug in some way or other, some of us have even made this hobby of ours our career. Yet, when you're there with a group of people that also dig this same thing as much as you do- it doesn't matter if you're a tube guy, or a vinyl guy, or a solid-state guy, or one who listens at low volume, or high volume.....everyone there is present for the same reasons- to respect the content we're trying to reproduce, and to respect and enjoy the efforts of a fellow hobbyist(s).

I had a wonderful time, and I really can't wait to do it again sometime when I'm back in CA for work- even if it's just a couple people.

Dan


Dan

the interesting part of this post is that I like you and twothbeave love to listen at high spl BUT there are members of BAAS who shall remain nameless prefer listening at more subdued levels. Also my wife was home sick that afternoon so I was doing my best to balance the scale. I guaranty your next session will be the way we both like it.

OB,

Now that grellberg has the Meitner "one-box" in his system; I also think it is only fair
that you get a turntable for your system.:)

Thank You very much to OB and grellberg for hosting a most enjoyable afternoon and
evening.

It was another golden opportuningy to hear these fine playback systems; and to hear
some new music. After every BAAS meeting; I always order some new software from
what I heard during the audition.

I also have to echo that grellberg took audio reproduction to a new level when he played
the "lacquer" record. Since that was the very piece of vinyl that was cut by the lathe
from the master tape; it is as close to the master as one can get; and it proved its
pedigree. That was one of THE most realistic playbacks I have ever heard.

Thanks again to all.

well considering grellberg's Meitner is on loan from a friend I would be happy to put a table into my system if one of you BAAS members would be kind enough to loan me one along with the phono stage, cables and stand. I am still having too much vicarious pleasure listening to this ML3 and trying to figure a way to own it.

Thank you, guys, glad you enjoyed the selection. Several from the vault and some more recent discoveries. I have been trying to reconstruct a vinyl collection from tapes I made years ago from the Tulane campus radio station and other radio sources. Sadly, some music that I recorded on tapes I can't identify, and I have not been able to figure it out it from listening.
There is an lot of music out there, only time for some of it, and of course not everybody has the same taste, but it helps me in listening to these great systems to check out a little more of what is on the recordings.
(recorded to CD using Macintosh computer with OS X from SME 30 turntable, SME IV-VI arm, Clearaudio Harmony MG cartridge w. Soundsmith ruby cantilever, Manley Steelhead and Euriduce tube/transformer coupled preamp). I figured it was the only way I was going to get to hear vinyl on Ob's system.

Carl

you guys show me no mercy.;)

Let me add to the chorus of thanks to OB & Grellberg for a wonderful evening. Two fabulous (yet very different systems) coupled with very gracious hospitality, not to mention the wonderful wine. From the comments, I think it's quite clear that a wonderful time was had by all who were fortunate enough to be able to attend....

Drew

Drew you live so close to all of us you need to make it more often to these sessions.

I loved the ride to and fron grellbergs in your new CL65 AMG. Enjoy that baby. It was perfect.

well considering grellberg's Meitner is on loan from a friend I would be happy to put a table into my system if one of you BAAS members would be kind enough to loan me one along with the phono stage, cables and stand. I am still having too much vicarious pleasure listening to this ML3 and trying to figure a way to own it.
OB,

I see. Yes, that Lamm ML3 is a real honey when it doesn't have a ground loop to
contend with. The X-2s driven by the ML3 were simply fantastic at your last gathering.

OB,

I see. Yes, that Lamm ML3 is a real honey when it doesn't have a ground loop to
contend with. The X-2s driven by the ML3 were simply fantastic at your last gathering.

I just can't believe how dumb I was in wiring the speaker cables on the left amp to the 4 ohm tap rather than the 8 ohm. Even though I wasn't listening other than off to the side I couldn't figure out why there was more prominance to the right speaker when the system was in balance. It wasn't until last night that I figured it out when I confirmed my suspicions. Two minute rewiring and there was even more magic than before. You guys need to come back and hear it again. I do agree with all about turntables BUT IMO if I were going to spring for anything it would be these amps. I have never heard anything as good or better

I am going to be back in Toronto end of May and early June for UofT Med School class reunion. Maybe you can host a meet

I'll see what I can do.

I'll see what I can do.

Are you in Guelph?

OB, to make your next purchase an upgrade on the LAMMS vs a good turntable I think is crazy. I don't think anyone saw a huge difference in quality, but a minor improvement if at all.
Instead the turntable will open a whole new world of sounds.... plus another big advantage... you've got Grellbergs library nearby!

OB, to make your next purchase an upgrade on the LAMMS vs a good turntable I think is crazy. I don't think anyone saw a huge difference in quality, but a minor improvement if at all.
Instead the turntable will open a whole new world of sounds.... plus another big advantage... you've got Grellbergs library nearby!

Tzucc

as I have been trying to tell you, the ML3 was wired wrong by me. Trust me the difference IS huge...even grellberg will confirm. It was as if the left speaker was running on 4 cylinders and the right speaker on 8 cylinders

I listened for 2 hours alone last night and all I could do was grin. You need a return visit here

OB, to make your next purchase an upgrade on the LAMMS vs a good turntable I think is crazy. I don't think anyone saw a huge difference in quality, but a minor improvement if at all.
tzucc,

You didn't hear the ML3s at their best. The ML3s really did take the X-2s to a discernable
new high when I heard them at OB's previous demo.

I too wondered where the magic of the ML3s went vis-a-vis the ML2.1s when I heard them
last Saturday. However, the ML3s were not powered by the "clean" AC circuit, they had
a ground loop problem; and OB states that there were other wiring issues.

Those issues must have conspired to cast the ML3s in a poor light; they are really
much, much better than you heard on Saturday. You need to take OB up on his
offer to reaudition them; they truly are amazing.

tzucc,

You didn't hear the ML3s at their best. The ML3s really did take the X-2s to a discernable
new high when I heard them at OB's previous demo.

I too wondered where the magic of the ML3s went vis-a-vis the ML2.1s when I heard them
last Saturday. However, the ML3s were not powered by the "clean" AC circuit, they had
a ground loop problem; and OB states that there were other wiring issues.

Those issues must have conspired to cast the ML3s in a poor light; they are really
much, much better than you heard on Saturday. You need to take OB up on his
offer to reaudition them; they truly are amazing.


when are you free again Tzucc... you really need to hear them. There was just so much going opn Saturday that in my haste Health Nut and I erred in which tap to wire the left amp. I just couldn't figure what I was or wasn't hearing when I was off to the side

Let me know if you have another listening session with the ML3s. If they sounded that good messed up, they must be really something set up correctly.

a return visit I shall make... I am thinking some time in May... this time I won't forget my good CD's... and I would hope that by that time you have a turntable :)

Okay I'm hoping for another meet soon? If I'm not working I will show up. I have got to hear your system! :cool:

Let me add my thanks for a fun evening- so sorry I couldn't stay around for the party at grellbergs.
Carl's CD is indeed amazing. He's inspired me to start transferring some of my vinyl to the Mac.
For anyone interested, I found several copies of Dead Can Dance's CD used at Rasputins in MV yesterday for $5 a pop. Every time I attend one of these meetings I wind up spending $ on new tunes- always a pleasure. At least I didn't run out and spend $$$$$$$ on new equipment.
And even with the problems, I have to say I preferred the ML3 to the 2.1. As a group we are fortunate to have members able and willing to indulge our fantasies.
Thanks again.

Okay I'm hoping for another meet soon? If I'm not working I will show up. I have got to hear your system! :cool:

Let me know if this weekend works for you

a return visit I shall make... I am thinking some time in May... this time I won't forget my good CD's... and I would hope that by that time you have a turntable :)


Tzucc...you are expecting miracles...bear in mind that these amps are on loan so May is a bit of a stretch

Okay I'm hoping for another meet soon? If I'm not working I will show up. I have got to hear your system! :cool:

this weekend?

your 2.1's are just fine with me... more important to me is the turntable... Carl, if you ended up buying some of those Dead Can Dance, I'll buy one off you.

Tzucc

I can burn you a copy of mine

thanks... and also your neat Pink Floyd recording.... I shall come to collect in May !!

thanks... and also your neat Pink Floyd recording.... I shall come to collect in May !!

send me your address by way of PM and I will forward them to you.

your 2.1's are just fine with me... more important to me is the turntable... Carl, if you ended up buying some of those Dead Can Dance, I'll buy one off you.

Tony, I think you should wait on that decision. Many times people on this forum talk about how a cable has made such a difference or a dvd transport is so superior that their system will never be the same. We have all gotten use to the exaggerations.
I think the 3.1 is like no other amp I have ever heard. It is in its own special category. The naturalness was beyond reproach. I've heard X2's on at least 12 different amps and none of them came close to the ML3's.The ML2.1 is a great piece but it is not in the same league as the ML3. IMO.
When I went back to Ob's to see his video set-up I noticed I was disappointed that the 3's were out and the 2.1's back in. I could easily hear the difference and the 2.1s are great amps!
You need to have a second listen. I do not think I am exaggerating here.

May I ask what the Pink Floyd recording is?

Tony, I think you should wait on that decision. Many times people on this forum talk about how a cable has made such a difference or a dvd transport is so superior that their system will never be the same. We have all gotten use to the exaggerations.
I think the 3.1 is like no other amp I have ever heard. It is in its own special category. The naturalness was beyond reproach. I've heard X2's on at least 12 different amps and none of them came close to the ML3's.The ML2.1 is a great piece but it is not in the same league as the ML3. IMO.
When I went back to Ob's to see his video set-up I noticed I was disappointed that the 3's were out and the 2.1's back in. I could easily hear the difference and the 2.1s are great amps!
You need to have a second listen. I do not think I am exaggerating here.

Sad but true Jeff

Sad because I own and love the ML 2.1 and true that the ML 3 is just not like any other amp on the planet.
Jeff are you in for this weekend?

May I ask what the Pink Floyd recording is?


I have a master of WYWH that is an audiophile must

JeffMac, well I did listen, and my conclusion was the 2.1s were better. Noticeably. However, it could be argued that I am unable, counter to my claim, to subtract out the loud line hum, and the fact that OB did not have them wired correctly. Hence I will reserve judgement until we get another listen.

OB:

I have never heard your system or either set of amps (but LOTS of other amps and systems) and my vote is still for the turntable (not that I was asked !!).

A really great used (or even new) TT (VPI, Basis, Goldman, Walker, SPJ, SME, Simon York, Clear Audio or....) with a good arm and cartridge as well as an excellent phono stage might set you back 10% to 50% of what those new amps will cost and here is what you get (IMHO):

(a) MUCH bigger sound improvement delta than any amp I could ever conceive of providing. I made the addition of vinyl a few years ago and can't imagine why I waited so long (actually that would be re-addition as I still had all of my LP's---and have purchased a few zillion more since)

(b) access to music that is not (and probably never will be) available on CD. Especially if you like jazz

(c) a really fun part of this insane hobby is looking for and finding unbelievable vinyl gems/treasures

(d) and if you happen to have even a slight bent toward OCD, you will have yet another avenue to "act out" your obsessions (cartridge alignment, overhang adjustment, VTA !!!)

(e) vinyl is just more fun and musically satisfying

(f) it would be one less thing that other AVS'ers would have to pick on you about.

Carl... the track #4 Steve Hackett ... is just beautiful to me. Great great find. On Listen #10 or something like that... I am anxiously awaiting your next CD issue... when I have my my next BAAS event, do bring all your vinyl and let's hear all these on the real deal... come over a few hours early....

OB:

I have never heard your system or either set of amps (but LOTS of other amps and systems) and my vote is still for the turntable (not that I was asked !!).

A really great used (or even new) TT (VPI, Basis, Goldman, Walker, SPJ, SME, Simon York, Clear Audio or....) with a good arm and cartridge as well as an excellent phono stage might set you back 10% to 50% of what those new amps will cost and here is what you get (IMHO):

(a) MUCH bigger sound improvement delta than any amp I could ever conceive of providing. I made the addition of vinyl a few years ago and can't imagine why I waited so long (actually that would be re-addition as I still had all of my LP's---and have purchased a few zillion more since)

(b) access to music that is not (and probably never will be) available on CD. Especially if you like jazz

(c) a really fun part of this insane hobby is looking for and finding unbelievable vinyl gems/treasures

(d) and if you happen to have even a slight bent toward OCD, you will have yet another avenue to "act out" your obsessions (cartridge alignment, overhang adjustment, VTA !!!)

(e) vinyl is just more fun and musically satisfying

(f) it would be one less thing that other AVS'ers would have to pick on you about.


you're right in all but "a"

Until you have heard the ML3 you just cannot comment. I have heard the best of TT's on grellberg's Sirius 3 and they are terrific, but my $$ goes for the amp. I have never heard music as fine as this. No turntablr IMHO can do the same

ob, apples and oranges... just get the doggone turntable already...

not before the amps tzucc

are you in for this weekend?

I can't believe you aren't gaga for vinyl after hearing, on more than one occasion, what special audio the vinyl delivers... amazing. I truly don't comprehend.

DId I miss a thread on this coming weekend... what is going on????

maybe I should bring my turntable to your house... that is how impt it is...

I can't believe you aren't gaga for vinyl after hearing, on more than one occasion, what special audio the vinyl delivers... amazing. I truly don't comprehend.

DId I miss a thread on this coming weekend... what is going on????

Tzucc you aren't very good multitasking

never once did I ever disagree with anyone about how good analog is. I AGREE

I have never discounted getting back in

What I did say is that the ML3 for me gives such a sense of music like nothing I have ever heard. As for this weekend I was merely inviting interested folks back for a second audition knowing that they are wired properly.

BTW, you are indeed welcome to bring over your TT:)

lol... ok, I might be able to make it depending on day/time...

lol... ok, I might be able to make it depending on day/time...
I will make it work for you as either day is fine for me

BTW I never got to show you a feature on the Gotham called ELF (extra low frequency) which allows you to add up to 3DB more of ELF (at 25HZ). Bet it would have made Master and Commander even better

M and C was really really good. You have better mid freq crunch than me... mostly because i am suffering from masking from excessive 0-30Hz... I am not joking when I say that... I need to tame it down because too much super low freq does mask the stuff we also need to hear from 100-500Hz esp when it comes to explosions.

you pick the day based on others feedback... I'll just tag along w or w.o my TT... depending on how that day looks like. For sure I can't spend another 10 hours like last time though :)

you pick the day based on others feedback... I'll just tag along w or w.o my TT... depending on how that day looks like. For sure I can't spend another 10 hours like last time though :)

You'll figure it out really quick. It was what was told to me by John Giolas when I visited Wilson Audio to hear the X1 vs X2 demo in Dave's living room. He said "it should only take you a few minutes" which BTW it did.

So similarly about the ML3 properly set up.

Perhaps an hour or two on Sat or Sunday afternoon.

Tzucc,
Actually I was the one who saw the Dead Can Dance CDs. I picked up one for myself, but if you're interested I can stop by later this week and get one for you or anyone else that's interested.

Tzucc,
Actually I was the one who saw the Dead Can Dance CDs. I picked up one for myself, but if you're interested I can stop by later this week and get one for you or anyone else that's interested.


you can buy it online from Amazon or acousticsounds




Terry are you in for a second listen this weekend?

Terry no need... like OB said, I can get from Amazon... now I need to figure out how to borrow Carl's good vinyl for a couple of weeks....

OB,
I may be able to do Sunday. Have to check with the wife re: plans.

Either day works for me but I want to have some serious time to the ML3's as well as the PJ which we only had a peek at. I am most anxious to get tzucc back (with his turn table on loan of course

Carl... the track #4 Steve Hackett ... is just beautiful to me. Great great find. On Listen #10 or something like that... I am anxiously awaiting your next CD issue... when I have my my next BAAS event, do bring all your vinyl and let's hear all these on the real deal... come over a few hours early....

Tony,

You are welcome to come by briefly and listen to some of them directly in my much more modest listening venue before going to Ob's, I am about 20 minutes south on 680 in Pleasanton, probably on your way. I will try to cook up another CD with different music, but this is tax and carpet cleaning week, I don't know if I will have time, but I will have one for sure when you have your movie session at your home.
Don't want to burden Ob's family with crazy audiophiles too much, so a brief listening session with the ML3's in peak form would be nice, just to get a taste before (if) they go.
I didn't know the vinyl CD would be so popular, but it wasn't recorded with the best method, just a Macintosh computer at 16/44. For those who are interested, the Alesis MasterLink ML-9600 is a much better, standalone unit that allows recording to hard disk in hi-rez, then equalizing and downsampling to record a much superior CD version of vinyl. They cost about $800 new, maybe $400 used.

Tony,

You are welcome to come by briefly and listen to some of them directly in my much more modest listening venue before going to Ob's, I am about 20 minutes south on 680 in Pleasanton, probably on your way. I will try to cook up another CD with different music, but this is tax and carpet cleaning week, I don't know if I will have time, but I will have one for sure when you have your movie session at your home.
Don't want to burden Ob's family with crazy audiophiles too much, so a brief listening session with the ML3's in peak form would be nice, just to get a taste before (if) they go.
I didn't know the vinyl CD would be so popular, but it wasn't recorded with the best method, just a Macintosh computer at 16/44. For those who are interested, the Alesis MasterLink ML-9600 is a much better, standalone unit that allows recording to hard disk in hi-rez, then equalizing and downsampling to record a much superior CD version of vinyl. They cost about $800 new, maybe $400 used.


I loved Pacheco and the last cut especially

Carl are you in this weekend?

I agree about the Alesis

Philip O'Hanlon who attended a BAAS meeting 2 years ago with the Meitner, DCS and Theta shootout has probably the best demo disks ever and he records them all on Alesis

Carl, thank you kindly, if I can go at all, I will have only time for OBs.... my wife is already casting the eye at me as it is. Esp since I would try and bring my turntable... I will double my efforts on the turntable if I know that you would come with your vinyl. I have a ClearAudio somewhat entry level model with a $500 cartridge... nothing special, so FYI.

Carl, thank you kindly, if I can go at all, I will have only time for OBs.... my wife is already casting the eye at me as it is. Esp since I would try and bring my turntable... I will double my efforts on the turntable if I know that you would come with your vinyl. I have a ClearAudio somewhat entry level model with a $500 cartridge... nothing special, so FYI.

so are you both in or ???;)

I'm going upstairs to listen. Carl that CD was stellar.

Carl, thank you kindly, if I can go at all, I will have only time for OBs.... my wife is already casting the eye at me as it is. Esp since I would try and bring my turntable... I will double my efforts on the turntable if I know that you would come with your vinyl. I have a ClearAudio somewhat entry level model with a $500 cartridge... nothing special, so FYI.
Tony,

Sure, you bring the turntable, I'll bring the records.

I loved Pacheco and the last cut especially

Carl are you in this weekend?

Yes, I am in, thank you, Steve.

Yes, I am in, thank you, Steve.

Great I want to play some of those wonderful tracks for you that you recorded. Which day works better?

Great I want to play some of those wonderful tracks for you that you recorded. Which day works better?

For me, Sat or Sun afternoon would work. WAF eliminates Sat. evening again.

Then it is all up to Tzucc to pick the day as either works for me

i am getting excited about the prospects... lemme try and gain WAF tonight... and confirm by tomorrow AM. REmember I am 90min away ... plus setup time... btw, I would bring my TT, phono preamp and then I think there are two XLR's to go into your ARC.

Are you in Guelph?

Only if I take a wrong turn. Richmond Hill, just north of Toronto.

Only if I take a wrong turn. Richmond Hill, just north of Toronto.

perfect

that is where I am staying

i am getting excited about the prospects... lemme try and gain WAF tonight... and confirm by tomorrow AM. REmember I am 90min away ... plus setup time... btw, I would bring my TT, phono preamp and then I think there are two XLR's to go into your ARC.


wow so you are serious about bringing your gear

Sorry this weekend is a no go for me! I'm sure you'll all have fun, especially if you get OB to break down and get a table before he buys the Lamms? :rolleyes:

Sad but true Jeff

Sad because I own and love the ML 2.1 and true that the ML 3 is just not like any other amp on the planet.
Jeff are you in for this weekend?

Sometimes ignorance (never having heard the ML3) is bliss.

Sorry, but I can't make it this weekend.

perfect

that is where I am staying

Great, hopefully we can set something up, just PM me a couple of weeks before you come.

OB, I have some clearance to come over on Sat afternoon... I will bring my TT unless when I get right down to it, some physical constraint or concern prevents me... but I plan on it. Along with my best vinyl (dont have much of it).... what time is good... the later the better for me.
p.s. we are having some challenges with our website, so there is a 20% chance some crisis prevents me from getting away from the PC. Hopefully not.

OB, I have some clearance to come over on Sat afternoon... I will bring my TT unless when I get right down to it, some physical constraint or concern prevents me... but I plan on it. Along with my best vinyl (dont have much of it).... what time is good... the later the better for me.
p.s. we are having some challenges with our website, so there is a 20% chance some crisis prevents me from getting away from the PC. Hopefully not.

How does 2:00 sound?

I appreciate the offer. Logistically we will also need phono stage and cables.

probably would be better for me if I left my house around 2pm, getting to your house a litle bit after 3. leave after two hours.

I have the phono pre, it's XLR out, can bring the XLR's to go into your ARC.

Perfect for me

Will see you at ~3:00

Carl and Terry,,,are you in?

Perfect for me

Will see you at ~3:00

Carl and Terry,,,are you in?

Steve,

That sounds good, see you then!
Carl

I'll be at Squaw with junior, otherwise was looking forward to seeing OB realize he needs a table. And given how he rolls (hi end only baby!), I see a Continuum or Rockport in his future!!!

I'll be at Squaw with junior, otherwise was looking forward to seeing OB realize he needs a table. And given how he rolls (hi end only baby!), I see a Continuum or Rockport in his future!!!

sorry grellberg...all of you have another thought coming:)

OB,
Looks like Ill probably be able to make it around 3:00 pm on Saturday.

Great

seems like only 4 of us and we should be done by 6:00 unless of course I get smitten by Tzucc's turntable ;)

OB.. we will need a very vibration resistant bed for the TT to sit on... obviously I am not going to bring my stand... so think about where we could set the TT so that it won't catch vibrations from the Gothams, X2s, etc.... I'll try to bring as long as cables as I can, in case we need them for whatever reason.

I am bringing vinyl. I will want to listen to selections from several of them. Look forward to more of Carl's best of.

well I am still looking for a vibration resistant platform. None at home. My only hope is that I have the maple butcher blocks in storage that I used to use for all of my components. Will you call me by noon as I will know by then

OB, try to find some vibration thingies we can put between the TT and the maple block... I will look for some too. Also, I am stopping by Guitar Center for some cables. They'll likely have something decent.

I have the TT packed up, preamp, record washer (a must), power supplies, and... one decent bottle of something to wet our beaks. Leaving in 5-10 minutes. I am bringing along a good assortment of vinyl... some CDs I wanted to bring for last time. Let's open the vino as soon as I get there to air it up.

I have some Tara Vanishing Points I can briing if you don't anything, OB.
I'm also bringing some vinyl alone with CD/SACD for comparison.
See you soon.

OB:

I have never heard your system or either set of amps (but LOTS of other amps and systems) and my vote is still for the turntable (not that I was asked !!).

A really great used (or even new) TT (VPI, Basis, Goldman, Walker, SPJ, SME, Simon York, Clear Audio or....) with a good arm and cartridge as well as an excellent phono stage might set you back 10% to 50% of what those new amps will cost and here is what you get (IMHO):

(a) MUCH bigger sound improvement delta than any amp I could ever conceive of providing. I made the addition of vinyl a few years ago and can't imagine why I waited so long (actually that would be re-addition as I still had all of my LP's---and have purchased a few zillion more since)

(b) access to music that is not (and probably never will be) available on CD. Especially if you like jazz

(c) a really fun part of this insane hobby is looking for and finding unbelievable vinyl gems/treasures

(d) and if you happen to have even a slight bent toward OCD, you will have yet another avenue to "act out" your obsessions (cartridge alignment, overhang adjustment, VTA !!!)

(e) vinyl is just more fun and musically satisfying

(f) it would be one less thing that other AVS'ers would have to pick on you about.


all I can say is what a day

Thanks to Tzucc who brought his turntable and phonostage to my house and even stopped to buy interconnects from the phonostage to my Ref3 so that not only could a small group of BAAS members meet to hear the well tuned Lamm ML3 Reference SET mono amps but so that we could "FINALLY" hear vinyl on my system. Tzucc went above the call of duty by even bringing an incredible bottle of Australian Syrah wine to open the palate.
Carl brought an amzing selection of vinyl as did Tzucc for listening. TerryM4 likewise brought an amazing assortment of vinyl as well as the SACD's of the vinyl. It was truly a day to remember
First off the ML3's were finally wired properly and I must again reiterate that these amps are the finest I have ever heard. At 32 wpc there is nothing in the universe that can hold a candle to them. So much so that for today's listening session the Gothams were turned off. Tzucc arrived first and I played him a cut from an album that we played last week on CD and it was spectacular. But then the fun began when we played vinyl for the rest of the afternoon. Two years ago we had a weekend BAAS event at my house and at Tzucc's. Mike Lavigne was our special guest. he spent the weekend with me and brought me a Master 45 LP of Louis Armstrong that he made me promise that I would play if and when I ever got a TT. Suffice it to say that this album has remained unopened in my room until today. When we played it, I must truly confess that it was as good or better than anything that I have ever heard. That simple listen proved that what Audioguy posted was "right on" Tzucc played many remastered LP's and they were amazing. I had the same albums and when we a/b'd tracks there was just no comparison. Terrym4 did a likewise comparison of a Peter Gabriel album and then again on SACD. For that track I must confess that the SACD was darn close but still not as good. Then Carl opened up some of his very old albums that when played literally brought goose bumps to the 4 of us.
I am still of the opinion that the ML3 amps are absolute magic and I have been fortunate to have these on loan from Vladimir. As great as my ML2.1's are,those that were present will attest ( I am sure) that the ML 3 is simply the best amp available in the market today. These coupled with an all analog listening session was absolutely special. Hopefully we can do this again before these amps have to be returned. Long and the short however is that this listening session truly made me a believer in analog.

Thanks to you Audioguy for some words of wisdom.
Now how do I incorporate both the amps and a turntable in my system :)

Increase the price for your spa treatments!!

Increase the price for your spa treatments!!

actually we were awarded "Best Medspa 2007" in the TriValley so I get top $$$. Worry about your HMO reimbursements Mark...I don't take insurance;)

Steve, I wish I was reimbursed for most of my work!!

Steve, I wish I was reimbursed for most of my work!!

all too sad what our profession has become Mark. Nothing more than second class citizens, having spent most of our lives training to be a member of the healing arts only to get trampeled on

I must truly confess that it was as good or better than anything that I have ever heard.

And the best part is there are lots and lots and lots of additional LP's that will transport you to musical nirvana. Because you already obviously have a room that is appropriately acoustically treated and have some of the finest equipment money can buy, I can not fathom ANY new/additional system component that will elevate your listening pleasure more so than even a moderatley priced analog system --- including the ML3's you love so much.

I'm pleased that you enjoyed the vinyl. You can indirectly thank Michael Fremer because he is the one that got me back into vinyl. Until my last (most recent) analog setup, I had just never heard vinyl done correctly.

I just made a Page of the event... will provide a link to it shortly. I already sent off an email to some strange record warehouse in NJ re the Kate Wolf vinyl... very top on my must have _now_ list. I equate her voice to Karen Carpenters in terms of power and appeal to my auditory senses.

When OB integrates vinyl into his system folks, truly I cannot imagine the better audio experience in the world... I suspect there will be a few rooms better, but very few. I can't answer whether it's worth the money, but his audio is a rarified and unique pleasure... like sipping on the finest and rarest wines.

Thanks again, Ob, for a wonderful preview of the un-humming Lamm 3's. I don't think there are many audiophiles who will ever be able to hear this elusive prey.
Too much vinyl, too little time, I saw a Radiohead LP poking out of somebody's bag that would have been nice to hear, and Lucinda Williams is on my Amoeba radar now. Tzucc's copy of "I, Robot" sounded like the best live concert you could ever attend. I do think that it is possible to get complete musical satisfaction from the Lamm 2.1's with the big Wilsons , but if you have the decadent dollars to fritter away, the 3's are pretty special, incomparable dynamics and projection. It's so much fun spending somebody else's money.
I was glad to be at the popping of Ob's vinyl cherry, we were all wondering what the system would be like with Grellberg's Sirius in residence, get the forklift ready.
Thanks again, it was a very special afternoon for me.

here is the PikiPage (http://fb.pikiwiki.com:8081/ewsfb/editor.jsp?YbLys65fDXagDbOZvXZ4MQ==) (our Facebook app)

Tzucc

your wine was also wonderful but if I had one regret ,it was that I have still to make you a demitasse of my wonderful espresso.
Next time...:)

BTW, to those who requested a copy off the master of WYWH, rest assured that I have them done and they willl go out this week.
Tzucc, Carl and Terry got their copy yesterday

BTW, to those who requested a copy off the master of WYWH, rest assured that I have them done and they willl go out this week.
Tzucc, Carl and Terry got their copy yesterday

Very exciting!! :D

Very exciting!! :D


yours should go out tomorrow

Yes, thanks again, OB, for another transporting event.
Carl, that was my vinyl of Radiohead's "In Rainbows". It's available new at Rasputin's, as are several of Lucinda Williams' LPs. I haven't been to Amoeba in years, but if they're carrying a good selection of new LPs they probably have them as well. They cost no more than the CD and are on heavy vinyl.
OB, I listened to WYWH on the way home- it was timed perfectly to end just as I approached my home. Perfect end to the day. Thanks again.

Yes, thanks again, OB, for another transporting event.
Carl, that was my vinyl of Radiohead's "In Rainbows". It's available new at Rasputin's, as are several of Lucinda Williams' LPs. I haven't been to Amoeba in years, but if they're carrying a good selection of new LPs they probably have them as well. They cost no more than the CD and are on heavy vinyl.
OB, I listened to WYWH on the way home- it was timed perfectly to end just as I approached my home. Perfect end to the day. Thanks again.

Now you need to listen to it in your home as I said with lights off, feet up, and a good glass of wine. It is mesmerizing

I have located a mint minus copy of the Kate Wolf double live... will be enjoying by next weekend :)

Tzucc

when we wrapped things up yesterday you wanted to listen to Kate one last time. I was hoping to do the same with that first Louis Armstrong cut we played (thank you Mike LaVigne-I finally got to hear it:) )

OB
Once you get your TT you'll be able to listen to St. James Infirmary whenever you want.

Now you need to listen to it in your home as I said with lights off, feet up, and a good glass of wine. It is mesmerizing

That is my exact plan, thanks again!

I have located a mint minus copy of the Kate Wolf double live... will be enjoying by next weekend :)

Glad you found it, Tony, without having to sift through piles of mildewed records.
To me, Kate Wolf has the ultimate "Earth Mother" voice, warm, wise and slightly sad. After listening to her, I want her to give me a big hug with some milk and cookies.

12.00 plus shipping... should get it by Thursday... can't wait to soak the whole 4 sides up. What's funny is that vinyl is this amazing treasure created when recording engineers did their job nominally well. Perhaps as someone suggested (terry I think) most CD's today are mastered in anticipation of MP3 rips. Not exactly contemplated during the 70s or 80s.
I'd say roughly 50% of random vinyl I've purchased is mastered well enough to sound great on my system.
My point is that there is all this cheap source material that nobody wants, but that a few kooks with turntables can enjoy for as long as the needle doesn't destroy enough of the sound quality.

BTW - fresh with the sonic impressions from OB's get2gether yesterday, I listened to my Supertramp and Carpenters LP. His sound is more mellow and balanced and not as harsh. Is it the speakers, the preamp, or the amp ... the TT at least was the same... what is/was the component that made the single biggest difference? My bet... speakers. Getting rid of all my subs for the Gothams, and trading up to X2s is probably a good idea for my room. Someday.

12.00 plus shipping... should get it by Thursday... can't wait to soak the whole 4 sides up. What's funny is that vinyl is this amazing treasure created when recording engineers did their job nominally well. Perhaps as someone suggested (terry I think) most CD's today are mastered in anticipation of MP3 rips. Not exactly contemplated during the 70s or 80s.
I'd say roughly 50% of random vinyl I've purchased is mastered well enough to sound great on my system.
My point is that there is all this cheap source material that nobody wants, but that a few kooks with turntables can enjoy for as long as the needle doesn't destroy enough of the sound quality.

BTW - fresh with the sonic impressions from OB's get2gether yesterday, I listened to my Supertramp and Carpenters LP. His sound is more mellow and balanced and not as harsh. Is it the speakers, the preamp, or the amp ... the TT at least was the same... what is/was the component that made the single biggest difference? My bet... speakers. Getting rid of all my subs for the Gothams, and trading up to X2s is probably a good idea for my room. Someday.


I'll sell you mine when I move

BTW, to those who requested a copy off the master of WYWH, rest assured that I have them done and they willl go out this week.
Tzucc, Carl and Terry got their copy yesterday

Bring an extra copy when you come up to Canada!:)

Glad you found it, Tony, without having to sift through piles of mildewed records.
To me, Kate Wolf has the ultimate "Earth Mother" voice, warm, wise and slightly sad. After listening to her, I want her to give me a big hug with some milk and cookies.

her country folk getup on those youtube videos is a gas... if you would have told me, before listening to your album, that I would find her music appealing... I would have bet $100 against. Once again, never judge a book by its cover.

yours should go out tomorrow

I just wanted to take a minute to say a thank you to OB. It is people like him that truly make AVS the special place that it is. Him and I have never met, yet he has taken time out of his today to make me something and send it to me, which will provide great enjoyment to me. It is rare in the current state of affairs to find people willing to do even small acts of kindness for others, and I just wanted to publicly express my gratitude. Thanks OB!!

I sent out 8 copies yesterday to we Pink Floyd fans. Once you get it, take 45 minutes, dim the lights , crank up the volume and sip on a great glass of wine because this is PF at their very best off a master tape.

Carl

I commend you as you have done it again. BAAS needs to make you our resident music compilator. I had the afternoon to myself and was finally able to sit down and listen to the CD that you made from vinyl. Needless to say I found it as good or better than the first one you made for us. Track 2 BB King lit up my ears. Even the track that was loaded with the snap, crackle and pops was terrific. You have a great ear for music as the Mike Oldfield, Incantations album is a veritable classic.
I vote that the next BAAS meeting be at your house. I bet your selection of music would be superb.

You have a great ear for music as the Mike Oldfield, Incantations album is a veritable classic.
Whoa! Just yesterday in our telephone conversation I mentioned that I had both the double album and CD and promised to bring the CD with me next time I come over! Coincidence? Hmmmm. Maybe, except that we're referring to an album entitled Incantations.

Whoa! Just yesterday in our telephone conversation I mentioned that I had both the double album and CD and promised to bring the CD with me next time I come over! Coincidence? Hmmmm. Maybe, except that we're referring to an album entitled Incantations.

and indeed Carl had a cut off that album.
great minds think alike

Steve,

Glad you enjoyed the second disc, a small repayment for your hospitality. I played it back through my CD player, and I am impressed myself that it turned out so well with my long in the tooth Macintosh computer. I am following the path generally of my music collection as culled from my old New Orleans tapes recorded from radio, with some variations. I'll make another one for Tzucc's event. I have bought another tube buffer that arrives next week that uses the vintage 26 vacuum tube. If it isn't too noisy, I can use it as a recording preamp with the next disc to see how that makes the vinyl flow. The current buffer uses a WE417a tube with transformer coupling
I am happy to host, but my room is about a third the size of the Grellberg/Ob rooms, and is stuffed to the gills with two home offices, home theater, surround system, occasional pomeranian petting zoo and my scattered audio projects and loose cables since I am always changing things around. The room and system are somewhat ad hoc/ superannuated hippie. It is an eclectic mix with planar speakers. Listening is more nearfield, and more "35mm" than "Wilson IMAX", with just about room for two in the sweet spot. However, it is all SET with a couple of small Wavacs and the tone is pretty nice. Everybody seems to like the vinyl part of the system if nothing else. Of course, individual BAAS members are welcome for a listen as well, let me know.
Because of the nearfield listening and restricted sweet spot, probably a group of about three or four, so people aren't bored and milling around without being able to listen correctly. I don't indulge in the grape, so that cozy wine would have to be brought, or you could tell me what you like within reason and I could have some here, I don't have the foggiest of what to get.
Eric has been here, so he knows the layout, as well as John (smokester). Missed John at the last meets.

Man I wish I was over there with you guys to experienece this. WYWH has been one of my favourites for over 20 years since my uni days. The only difference is I prefer it taken with a 40 y.o. port !!

OB,

Have you seen Gilmour live on DVD where he tackles "Shine ..." at the start of the gig solo ? Brave and breathtaking !!

Man I wish I was over there with you guys to experienece this. WYWH has been one of my favourites for over 20 years since my uni days. The only difference is I prefer it taken with a 40 y.o. port !!

OB,

Have you seen Gilmour live on DVD where he tackles "Shine ..." at the start of the gig solo ? Brave and breathtaking !!

I haven't seen that one. Any further specifics on the DVD title etc would be appreciated. As much as I like Gilmour, Roger Waters IMO was the genius of the group.

I haven't seen that one. Any further specifics on the DVD title etc would be appreciated. As much as I like Gilmour, Roger Waters IMO was the genius of the group.

I could not agree more! I saw the Dark Side tour Waters did last year and it was amazing.

This Gilmor concert on Blu-ray is pretty good though:

http://www.amazon.com/David-Gilmour-Remember-Albert-Blu-ray/dp/B000UD08HW******pd_bbs_4?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1205949252&sr=8-4

However, my favorite is the Roger Waters "In the Flesh Tour" It is available on DVD and SACD (my personal choice).

http://www.amazon.com/Roger-Waters-Flesh-Live/dp/B00005U122******sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1205939417&sr=1-1

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=9223

The amazon links don't work but I will flesh them out

Thanks

Eric has been here, so he knows the layout, as well as John (smokester). Missed John at the last meets.
Carl,

John has been pretty busy of late; wrapping things up. He has just retired from the Lab.

The amazon links don't work but I will flesh them out

Thanks

It seems to be shortening my link. Lets try these:

http://www.buy.com/prod/david-gilmour-remember-that-night-royal-albert-hall-blu-ray/q/loc/322/205477611.html

http://www.buy.com/prod/waters-r-in-the-flesh-live/q/loc/322/40163376.html

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=9223

OB,

Wanted to say thanks very much for the CDs- they were delivered yesterday. And thanks again for such an enjoyable day, to all of you in attendance, it was great to finally meet you guys and I had a blast!

BTW- my daughter is MUCH better than either of the systems I listened to, but of course I'm biased :D

glad to be home, hope to do it again next time I'm in NorCal.

Dan

always a pleasure Dan.

Next time you get an official BAAS member card for your wallet

Carl,

John has been pretty busy of late; wrapping things up. He has just retired from the Lab.


Wow

Is he moving back to Canada?

OB,

This is the one I have ...

http://www.buy.com/prod/gilmour-d-david-gilmour-in-concert/q/loc/322/40201599.html

BTW ... did you end up getting Medicine Woman by Medwyn Goodall ?

OB,

This is the one I have ...

http://www.buy.com/prod/gilmour-d-david-gilmour-in-concert/q/loc/322/40201599.html

BTW ... did you end up getting Medicine Woman by Medwyn Goodall ?

thank you and yes I did

Is he moving back to Canada?
OB,

I don't believe so. He's going to be returning to the Lab in one of the capacities that
we have for retirees; "Participating Guest", "Lab Associate".

When people "retire" from the Lab; they usually don't really retire - they come back to
work part-time.

It's good for both them and the Lab; they get to draw their retirement, get to work on
a part-time basis and pick up a little spare change.

The Lab doesn't lose the expertise of an experienced scientist with many year of
training and tons of "corporate knowledge" that hasn't been cataloged. They can also
serve as mentors for the younger scientists.

You mentioned something about moving earlier in this thread; are you returning to Canada?

Not returning to Canada in this life time.

Good chance however that we will be moving back to Southern California in the next several years

btw, just got my Kate Wolf album... it was mint condition. No dust or scratches.
Different than OB's sound reproduction, as to be expected. The only thing the same is the TT... speakers, amp, etc... all different.

I would say that the guitars/banjos/mandolins sounded pluckier on my system, but the overall experience was more magical with OB's system.
If was to hazard the guess... I would say it's his preamp or the X2s (vs my X1s)... I don't think it's the amp. But I could be totally inverse about this.

I would say that the guitars/banjos/mandolins sounded pluckier on my system, but the overall experience was more magical with OB's system.
If was to hazard the guess... I would say it's his preamp or the X2s (vs my X1s)... I don't think it's the amp. But I could be totally inverse about this.

I think you may be leaving out an important component .... and that would be the differences in rooms !!

excellent point. I was also contemplating the room difference... I have alot more acoustic treatment. I was wondering whether or not there is a bit of blurring in OB's room from less wall and ceiling absorption/diffusion... I am wondering this because the string instruments sounded pluckier on my system.... perhaps he is getting a bit more comb effect.... not sure.

I would love to see OB implement a TT and perhaps some more acoustics on the walls... he has good carpeting, but he may be getting some horizontal and transveral modes going... .again, totally not sure about this. And overall his system/room provides a superior listening experience.

I thought some people that frequent this thread may be interested in my impressions of the Modwright 36.5 Line Stage

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1013221

Just got back from 9 days in Costa Rica and am doing some catch up.

Tzucc....you have me going on the TT, I agree

I also agree on room effects. Contrary to your impressions I believe that mine is far more treated than yours.

Contrary to your impressions I believe that mine is far more treated than yours.

You could get a sense of that by running an impulse response in your room and his and that would show (among other things) the times at which spurious reflections occur (the further out the better) Then estimate where in the room that reflection comes from, apply treatment and re-measure. Works like a champ .... done it many times in many rooms.

You could get a sense of that by running an impulse response in your room and his and that would show (among other things) the times at which spurious reflections occur (the further out the better) Then estimate where in the room that reflection comes from, apply treatment and re-measure. Works like a champ .... done it many times in many rooms.


Dizzman actually did this in my room two years ago at a BAAS meeting

Dizzman actually did this in my room two years ago at a BAAS meeting

To determine whose room has more EFFECTIVE treatment (yours or Tzucc's) his room would need to be done as well.

To determine whose room has more EFFECTIVE treatment (yours or Tzucc's) his room would need to be done as well.

you're joking ,right;)

no. You take a known tone, you measure the way the room responds to it. then do the same to the other room and that gives a feel for wose room is more reverberant, dead, at what freq, etc.

That is what acoustical analysis does. of course, this does not tell us what sounds better, just what is going on acoustically.

A good friend of mine is an ARC dealer. He order a Ref3 for a customer who since backed out of it. He willing to let it go for a very attractive price. He is an authorized dealer and it has the full warrenty. If anyone is interested shoot me a PM.

A good friend of mine is an ARC dealer. He order a Ref3 for a customer who since backed out of it. He willing to let it go for a very attractive price. He is an authorized dealer and it has the full warrenty. If anyone is interested shoot me a PM.


My best advice is to buy it yourself as IMO it is the best preamp out there

My best advice is to buy it yourself as IMO it is the best preamp out there

I would think about it but I just receieved this friday...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1013221

no. You take a known tone, you measure the way the room responds to it. then do the same to the other room and that gives a feel for wose room is more reverberant, dead, at what freq, etc.

That is what acoustical analysis does. of course, this does not tell us what sounds better, just what is going on acoustically.

Actually, a full bandwidth impulse response is different. Since the room will deal with different frequencies differently, it is a great way to find out where the ideal place for room treatment belongs. But you are correct in that even though one room might measure better (fewer spikes in the IR) that does not mean you will like it better.

I would think about it but I just receieved this friday...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1013221

well David now that you have beenn smitten by a tube preamp, have a listen to the Ref3. Perhaps your dealer will let you a/b the two preamps

To determine whose room has more EFFECTIVE treatment (yours or Tzucc's) his room would need to be done as well.

Just got back from 9 days in Costa Rica and am doing some catch up.

Tzucc....you have me going on the TT, I agree

I also agree on room effects. Contrary to your impressions I believe that mine is far more treated than yours.

Because you have all the tube traps? That takes care of some narrow range of bass. I not only have the Hemholtz resonators (not as many, but for the same purpose) but diffusion and absorption for many other freq ranges... do you forget my walls and ceilings are covered with all manners and shapes of treatments, not to mention the construction of my floor and drywall suspension? lol.

In any case, I wish I had done far less treatment and left the walls bare as yours are. To un-acoustify that room will cost me alot of hassle.

p.s. Tony G who did my room did do all the formal measurements. He liked what he saw. I liked what I heard.

Tony....if you didn't all of the construction under your floor those TRW's would bring your house down :)

actually the thing is with regular nail construction and the amount of heave and ho that these air pressure changes cause... one wonders if things don't loosen up after a bunch of 120dB 3Hz sessions.

actually the thing is with regular nail construction and the amount of heave and ho that these air pressure changes cause... one wonders if things don't loosen up after a bunch of 120dB 3Hz sessions.


what loosens up are the listeners' innards;)

That's funny OB!

I'd have to agree with Tony on this one though. His room is almost anecholic. I love that vault like sensation in there. Nothing like closing the door, and knowing all outside impurities will be left behind. That said they are both smokin' audio environments! However, I sure had a religious experience at Grellberg's and he has no treatments at all unless you count the ficus tube traps. Go figure.

Happy listening,

Edward