The CEO of Toshiba was interviewed in the WSJ today. A lot of questions about HD-DVD. I thought this passage was particularly interesting. The gist seems to be that HD Discs don't matter that much and that Toshiba thinks it can get still more resolution out of standard definition DVDs? Are there any rumors of technology in the pipeline that go beyond today's upconverting DVD players?

-CB


WSJ: Aren't you at a disadvantage with just standard DVD players?

Mr. Nishida: What people don't realize is that Hollywood studios are going to release new titles not just for Blu-ray but for standard DVDs as well, and there are a far greater number of current-generation DVD players out there. If you watch standard DVDs on our players, the images are of very high quality because they include an "upconverting" feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images. The players would be much cheaper than Blu-ray players too. Next-generation DVD players are in a much weaker position than when standard DVD players were first introduced.

link to the article??


This does make sense in a way. HD-DVD lost, they collect royalties on SD-DVD, but not on BD, so try to keep the train rolling. I would bet that most people outside of the HT enthusiast community wouldn't see a ton of difference between SD-DVD on an XA2 and BD material unless they were side by side.

link to the article??


This does make sense in a way. HD-DVD lost, they collect royalties on SD-DVD, but not on BD, so try to keep the train rolling. I would bet that most people outside of the HT enthusiast community wouldn't see a ton of difference between SD-DVD on an XA2 and BD material unless they were side by side.

You might be able to upconvert, but no further details can be "recovered" this way. It's just a fake...

Studios can't/won't abandon DVD for as long as (a) they can make a buck or two off it and (b) is as widely available in people's homes/workplace as it is now. Even if downloads or Blu-ray take-off DVD will still be around, so Nishida-san (as any good businessman) is dismissing the high-definition upgrade his very company was trying to pursue to keep the established train of SD DVD royalty gravy coming. Smooth...not! :rolleyes:

Are there any rumors of technology in the pipeline that go beyond today's upconverting DVD players?

Toshiba has been developing technology called Super Upconversion that runs on the Cell processor used in PS3.

Balogney. They lost and want to recoup the hardware $$$ anyway possible.
A standard DVD is 480i no matter what you do with the image.
You can't compare a 480i video with a 1080p one no matter what tricks you have up your sleeve.
He is simply saying, we lost so we are going to keep people away from BR by hyping up SD.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1204..._editors_picks

Invalid link.:rolleyes:

Invalid link.:rolleyes:


try this

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13277962&postcount=3675

try this

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13277962&postcount=3675

This seems to be a more direct approach. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120450428955606405.html?mod=hps_us_editors_picks

And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images. Don't believe anything till you see it. :) There is no substitute for _real_ source bits. However, this doesn't mean some people won't be able to tell the difference. Just like now...

larry

Mr. Rubin, kind or strange on this very forum I started a thread about this exact same information 5 days ago but with a reporter with the associated press and Mr Nishida. A moderator immediately removed my thread and the link to the associated press article. Four days after contacting you, you have yet to answer my PM as to why my thread was deleted. :(

Don't believe anything till you see it. :) There is no substitute for _real_ source bits. However, this doesn't mean some people won't be able to tell the difference. Just like now...

larry

there is no reason that they could not add HDi VC1/AVC, etc. and the other hd dvd features into their new red laser dvd players.

IMO it might be a killer product if they support it in pc's, video cameras, etc.

for starters, you could easily record and create your own hd content.... no studio support needed using super low cost existing dvd media.

also, if hd downloads are going with 720p for the next few years it would be a great companion product for downloads (particularly if download companies provided a feature to burn hd dscs to "own" the content).

So they are now saying DVD upconverting is good enough and the interactive menu system(PiP/Web access) and menu access during the movie is moot.

Also, what does upconverting do about the limited audio on SD DVD ?

A standard DVD is 480i no matter what you do with the image.


480p, actually, but I still agree.

if they don't include a blu laser, it cannot be called an hd dvd player.

however, it is still a dvd player even if they add HDi, avc/vc1, trueHD, etc. using red laser dvd tech.

not sure they are limited to up conversion as the only way to make dvd look like hd dvd.

So they are now saying DVD upconverting is good enough and the interactive menu system(PiP/Web access) and menu access during the movie is moot.

Also, what does upconverting do about the limited audio on SD DVD ?

Toshiba will just join OPPO in the upconvert market. If they implement the XA2 topology as an upconverter, they should retain thier perfect score of 130 out of 130, and with all the PQ adjustments as well.

DD and DTS are limited as compared to the newer codecs, but they are pretty darned good for most surround necessities.

Toshiba lost HD DVD, and now the BR crowd wants to force them to "join up". They don't have to do that. And it looks like Toshiba will join the dreaded download bandwagon as well.

We shall see whose business model gets them more market share. The BD group or Toshiba.

I think eventually Toshiba will make Blu-ray players, but no way anytime real soon nor would they discuss that after just pulling the plug on HD DVD. You gotta love the, "And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images." Nothing like good bullshit to smile at sometimes. :)

there is no reason that they could not add HDi VC1/AVC, etc. and the other hd dvd features into their new red laser dvd players.You mean besides the cost of adding that to a DVD player?


So they are now saying DVD upconverting is good enough and the interactive menu system(PiP/Web access) and menu access during the movie is moot.I don't think that Nishida really believes that but he had to say something to minimize the impact of the loss of the format war. I don't blame him for hyping DVD upconversion since that is the only logical thing Toshiba can do at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised though if Toshiba promotes DVD upconvesion for the rest of the year but announces a Blu-ray player at CES next year.


Toshiba will just join OPPO in the upconvert market. If they implement the XA2 topology as an upconverter, they should retain thier perfect score of 130 out of 130, and with all the PQ adjustments as well.CNET considered the $230 MSRP Oppo DV-981-HD (http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/oppo-dv-981hd/4505-6463_7-32327927.html?tag=prod.txt.1) to be a better DVD upscaler than the $800 MSRP HD-XA2 (http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-hd-xa2/4505-6463_7-32074339.html?tag=prod.txt.1). CNET said that: "So, while the upconversion on the HD-XA2 is very good, we still felt that the DV-981HD was significantly better."

So Toshiba thought HD was worth it as long it was their format and players that were playing it? Now that they have lost, standard def upconverted is good enough?

This should send a clear message to anyone still thinking Toshiba is the the victim in all this, and to anyone who thinks they are the ultimate consumer friendly company. Their format failed and now they want everyone to take a step back as a result and put up with an inferior product, because at least they are the ones making it. This is a pathetic move on Toshiba's part. As someone who was an early adopter to HD-DVD and a supported of the product this is a big time slap in the face. My days of Toshiba ownership are over.

what a lame thing to say in that article...maybe toshiba would have been better with a traditional manager who is an engineer as well, like they used to have them. maybe at least would have pulled the plug in a more elegant way not what they have done, so we wouldn`t have lost the announced releases.

This could be a good thing for blu-ray. It might keep them from getting complacent and staying niche. I want my catalog titles and that will only happen if blu-ray takes off.

Remember that Toshiba's businesses include elevators, refrigerators, air conditioners, X-ray and scanner systems, railway systems, and nuclear power plants. Don't expect a CEO to know much more real details about HDM than the big picture cash flow, profit, and growth numbers, and whatever he has been told how the electronics division is going to make up for this.

I hope this forces Blu-Ray prices down and the quality up. :D

Toshiba has been developing technology called Super Upconversion that runs on the Cell processor used in PS3.

They better work on it then. So far PS3 turned out to be a rather mediocre upconverter - it has yet to reach the level of A30/A35, let alone XA2...

link to the article??


This does make sense in a way. HD-DVD lost, they collect royalties on SD-DVD, but not on BD, so try to keep the train rolling. I would bet that most people outside of the HT enthusiast community wouldn't see a ton of difference between SD-DVD on an XA2 and BD material unless they were side by side.

You might be able to upconvert, but no further details can be "recovered" this way. It's just a fake...

Studios can't/won't abandon DVD for as long as (a) they can make a buck or two off it and (b) is as widely available in people's homes/workplace as it is now. Even if downloads or Blu-ray take-off DVD will still be around, so Nishida-san (as any good businessman) is dismissing the high-definition upgrade his very company was trying to pursue to keep the established train of SD DVD royalty gravy coming. Smooth...not! :rolleyes:

+1

CNET considered the $230 MSRP Oppo DV-981-HD (http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/oppo-dv-981hd/4505-6463_7-32327927.html?tag=prod.txt.1) to be a better DVD upscaler than the $800 MSRP HD-XA2 (http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-hd-xa2/4505-6463_7-32074339.html?tag=prod.txt.1). CNET said that: "So, while the upconversion on the HD-XA2 is very good, we still felt that the DV-981HD was significantly better."

CNET for AV reviews, you got to kidding. :rolleyes: Maybe I should check out PCMag for all my AV decisions too. :D

...Angelo

I can see where the man is coming from. The average consumer is misled, lied too, or coerced into getting something they may or may not need.

HD is not available in every home, and people don't always have the scratch to buy HD. However, upscaling machines have been branded HD in their model numbers, or advertising on the box, which has led to even more mass confusion. I had friends who had upscalers and said to me ... I have HD. it took me weeks to explain it to them and in the end they just felt the upscale was good enough.

Education of the consumer is the problem... consumers are being wrongly educated and making decisions based on inaccurate or misleading information, and whose to blame?

The B&M stores, the Manufacturers, and the media.

CNET considered the $230 MSRP Oppo DV-981-HD (http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/oppo-dv-981hd/4505-6463_7-32327927.html?tag=prod.txt.1) to be a better DVD upscaler than the $800 MSRP HD-XA2 (http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-hd-xa2/4505-6463_7-32074339.html?tag=prod.txt.1). CNET said that: "So, while the upconversion on the HD-XA2 is very good, we still felt that the DV-981HD was significantly better."

You mean the same XA2 that beat the Crystalio? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=782887)
It seems there are people who still take Cnet 'reviews' seriously - in my eyes they are one of the biggest paid marketing shills of the industry.

CNET for AV reviews, you got to kidding. :rolleyes: Maybe I should check out PCMag for all my AV decisions too. :D

...Angelo

:D:D:D

Balogney. They lost and want to recoup the hardware $$$ anyway possible.
A standard DVD is 480i no matter what you do with the image.


I thought a standard DVD is 480p.

I don't think there is much difference between 480p and 1080i, especially if you watch the movie and not the pixels. :D

I thought a standard DVD is 480p.

I don't think there is much difference between 480p and 1080i, especially if you watch the movie and not the pixels. :D

i am glad i don't have to watch movies on your setup. :confused:

As someone who was an early adopter to HD-DVD and a supported of the product this is a big time slap in the face. My days of Toshiba ownership are over.

I don't even consider myself an early adopter, because I did not buy a first generation HD DVD player, I bought a third generation HD DVD player. In other words, third generation is hardly "early".

Also, when I bought my HD DVD player, the format war was at a stalemate. Even the CEO of Sony was publicly commenting about that. Honestly, I was expecting it to remain a stalemate for at least several more years. Then, something totally unexpected happened to break that stalemate, and IMHO, the CEO Sony took some action, which even though it is just rumors at this point (paying off studios, offering Toshiba a factory, etc, ???), someday we will know what those actions really where.

If upconverted DVD is good enough then why did Toshiba get into the HD market in the first place?

smells like BS to me.

i am glad i don't have to watch movies on your setup. :confused:

I would not want you to anyway, if all you do is watch pixels. ;)