Is it possible/a good idea to use construction adhesive to secure the base of my walls to cement floor on the basement as opposed to nailing or screwing it into the concrete. I would still nail it into the joist above...

Yes it is. I did this in my previous house after trying to use the ramset. My cememt floor was so old and hard, it would break the nails and just chip the floor. So, someone recommended I try Liquid nails. It worked great and set hard.

Is it possible/a good idea to use construction adhesive to secure the base of my walls to cement floor on the basement as opposed to nailing or screwing it into the concrete. I would still nail it into the joist above...

My buddy did it this way for his HT and it's been fine for over 6 years now. He is continuing to do it this way for the rest of his basement. I have no professional reasons why, but I would use concrete nails.

Really interesting. I wonder how this would fare in a slightly damp environment. Even a "dry" basement can get some moisture on the concrete which is why code dictates using treated lumber as the bottom plate.

I'd sure rather just glue than Ramset.

I secured the sill plates with Tapcons. Inexpensive and safe to use.

I took a class from a builder on finishing basements, the builder said not to worry about driving a nail into the concrete just drive a masonry nail down until the nail takes a bite ( the pointy part). Once the wall is covered with drywall the weight and the bites will keep it from moving unless you drive a car into it.

I ignored his advice and just used a powered gun. Everyone should have the opportunity to shoot one of those things. It's number two on my list after using a jack hammer. I haven't ever used a backhoe but that might displace both. I need a project that offers an excuse so I can go rent one.

Amen to that. I used one of the trigger Ramsets to secure my walls to the floor AND to the 5/16" steel beam above. It fires .22 cal cartridges.

They are way cool, but you need to remember to use hearing protection!

I want to use a bobcat and a jackhammer next too Biggy.

CJ

I used both liquid nails and Tapcons for good measure. I'm sure glue alone would be enough, though. I had to move one of my base plates after the liquid nails had cured. Taking out the Tapcons was easy, but it took a few minutes with a sledgehamer to break the adhesive.

OT: When landscaping my house I rented a bobcat for a weekend. The previous year I had moved 18 cubic yards of dirt over the course of a month with a wheelbarrow. With the bobcat, I moved 36 cubic yards in 2 hours. Best $100 I ever spent.

Everyone should have the opportunity to shoot one of those things. It's number two on my list after using a jack hammer. I haven't ever used a backhoe but that might displace both. I need a project that offers an excuse so I can go rent one.
I want to use a bobcat and a jackhammer next too Biggy.
OT: When landscaping my house I rented a bobcat for a weekend. The previous year I had moved 18 cubic yards of dirt over the course of a month with a wheelbarrow. With the bobcat, I moved 36 cubic yards in 2 hours. Best $100 I ever spent.I've got Jackhammer and Ramset gun covered, but still lacking in earth-moving experience. Glad to see I'm not the only one with an urge to play around with one of those things ;-)

I don't know what I would do without my John Deere 4310 Compact Utility Tractor (CUT). That front end loader has done just about everything.

Ramset is the way to go. Quick, efficient - loud as hell! Will never forget first time I drove a nail into a piece of metal track in the corner of the room (surrounded by concrete walls). Was one of several stupid things I did in my basement build, as I think I managed to do some damage on the hearing!

Only time I used adhesive was on small 2x4 treated lumber (4-6 in in length) as a Ramset would split it.

I don't know what I would do without my John Deere 4310 Compact Utility Tractor (CUT). That front end loader has done just about everything.


I was think of putting in a Koi pond.

Just need to find someone to drive the truck while I do the loading:

http://www.komatsu.com/CompanyInfo/press/images/2007112010260216091.jpg

Working for Kubota tractor has afforded me the opportunity to operate a wide assortment of fun equipment over the last few years......

backhoes are fun but not as much fun as excavators

(not me in the picture)

http://www.socaltractor.com/KX121_3_.jpg

getting back to the question at hand......I would not be happy with just using adhesive to hold my walls in place. Use the tapcoms or the Ramset....and if you can't get any of that to bite there are always concrete floor anchors.

http://common.csnstores.com/common/products/PN/PN1128_s.jpg

seeming as it does not appear that HD or Lowes carry the tapcoms, at least on their websites I couldnt track them down, is there an alternative to these, or should I look for an online Retailer? also, do those then need to be pre drilled? and if using these, is 2 in an 8' section enough?

seeming as it does not appear that HD or Lowes carry the tapcoms, at least on their websites I couldnt track them down, is there an alternative to these, or should I look for an online Retailer? also, do those then need to be pre drilled? and if using these, is 2 in an 8' section enough?

HD and Lowes both carry tapcons on shelf. You do need to pre-drill the holes. There is a tapcon set that has the drill and the driver in it, tho I'm not sure of the cost. I would personally put one on each end of the wall about one foot in and one in the middle.

I didn't use anything on the sills. I had a tight fit from top to bottom, so I just nailed it in at the top. I've never had a problem over the last 7 yrs.

If you go the Tapcon route you definetely need a hammer drill or you will burn your drill bit out in no time.

Eric

If you go the Tapcon route you definetely need a hammer drill or you will burn your drill bit out in no time.

Eric

rrrrrrrrrrr...I am glad you mentioned this. that just means more tools to buy. Unless I can find one I can borrow, as I dont feel like buying a hammer drill for just this one project. If this was not mentioned, i could have seen myself killing my drill. Thanks for the important heads up!

While you probably could get away with a good quality construction adhesive for your intended purpose my vote if for the ramset. Be sure to get one with the trigger since hitting it with a hammer is no fun. Hearing and eye protection is highly recommended. Also recommended is to discharge the spent shells from the ramset in a motion like you a mob hitman!

You don't need a hammer drill for 20 or 30 Tapcons. A standard 3/8" reversible drill does the job just fine. That's how I installed mine, but it takes a little longer to drill.

I'd also recommend a set of short vicegrips on the shaft of a screwdriver for extra leverage screwing the Tapcon in. Much easier on the palms on the hands.

Tapcons can be bought in bilster packs with drill bit, or without. Home Depot does indeed carry them and being blue, they are easy to pick out in the fastner aisle.

A standard 3/8" reversible drill does the job just fine.

I would argue that it depends on the strength of the concrete. I tried going this route and got the first one drilled easy. Ran in the screw, piece of cake. After that? I went and bought a hammer drill and STILL couldn't drill into the concrete. Finally went with a ramset and haven't looked back.

So to the Op, if you don't want to by a hammer drill or ramset right off, try it with your current drill and tapcon, but be sure to use the bit that comes with the tapcons.

Good luck,
Tom

rrrrrrrrrrr...I am glad you mentioned this. that just means more tools to buy. Unless I can find one I can borrow, as I dont feel like buying a hammer drill for just this one project. If this was not mentioned, i could have seen myself killing my drill. Thanks for the important heads up!

Rent it. A good hammer drill is very expensive. You'll only need it for a few hours anyway.

BTW, you should probably check the local building codes to see if there is a requirement.

I would argue that it depends on the strength of the concrete.

Yup. If you have relatively strong concrete a standard drill isn't going to cut it. I tried on my floor and I couldn't drill a single hole. I borrowed my friend's Hilti, and it took about 15 seconds per hole.

I was thinking about this and I think that most of us could ramset faster than we could apply construction adhesive (when you consider the time it takes to open the caulk, apply, clean up any mess, etc). Certainly MUCH faster than drilling and inserting tapcons.

Most tool rental places will rent the 22 cal ramsets for the day. You would just need to buy the blanks and the nails.

I've used all three in my basement - glue, tapcon and ramset. Different methods worked better at different time. The ramset was also useful to nailing top plates to I-beams.

Michael,

I've never been brave enough to try to shot into a steel beam. I guess it goes back to my gun safety class I took as a youth, talking about the dangers of a plugged muzzle.

Can you elaborate on the technique? are there special nails?

I just use 1 3/4" (i think) ramset nails that have the washers attached. Because the nail is driving through the topsill first it's not going to go anywhere even if you don't get the nail to drive into the beam. Like when you fire into concrete, the nail can bend instead of biting. I usually start with a yellow cap and then need to fire again with a green cap. Of course wear all of the usual safety gear.

Michael,

I've never been brave enough to try to shot into a steel beam. I guess it goes back to my gun safety class I took as a youth, talking about the dangers of a plugged muzzle.

Can you elaborate on the technique? are there special nails?I'm not Michael, but i did the same thing. Its not really a plugged muzzle because the gun still has 1.5" of wood between it and the beam - plus, that's how they are designed. What happens (at least in my case) is the the point of the nail embeds in the flange of the beam, but does not penetrate it. I would use 2 or 3 on a section of wall (ends and middle). Its more than enough to hold it. I also used PL Premium adhesive, so it held the wall until the adhesive set.

EDIT: I'm a slow typer - Michael beat me to it

If you go the Tapcon route you definetely need a hammer drill or you will burn your drill bit out in no time.

Eric

I'd agree with this, although others have posted different experiences. I did the whole asement with a standard 3/8" drill, but I did go through ~4 masonry bits. I figured 4 bits were cheaper than a hammer drill.

As for HD/Lowes carrying Tapcons, at my Lowes they carried the Phillips aternative. So that might be why you cannot find it on the web page.

Went by Lowes tonight and even if i had to buy the gun I think it would end up being cheaper or about the same as tapcons at 18 bucks roughly for 25.

I have the pound it with a hammer ramset. Works fine. Cost around $25 iirc.

Also recommended is to discharge the spent shells from the ramset in a motion like you a mob hitman!

*THAT's* the best part. Thanks for the reminder...I nearly forgot that!

I just use 1 3/4" (i think) ramset nails that have the washers attached. Because the nail is driving through the topsill first it's not going to go anywhere even if you don't get the nail to drive into the beam. Like when you fire into concrete, the nail can bend instead of biting. I usually start with a yellow cap and then need to fire again with a green cap. Of course wear all of the usual safety gear.

I did the same thing. I actually didn't believe that it would work, so I removed one small wall segment to see. That nail was in there to stay. I ended up destroying the top plate to remove it and see for myself. Half way through I was left wondering why I was going through so much trouble to verify that it worked...

CJ

Went by Lowes tonight and even if i had to buy the gun I think it would end up being cheaper or about the same as tapcons at 18 bucks roughly for 25.

If you do decide to go with Tapcons, I recommend the hex head ones. I have the hardest time trying to finish some of the screws with a phillips head, even in a screw gun. I find it much easier to crank the stubborn ones down with a ratchet. And the more you put in, the more stubborn they get. The drill bit starts to wear, and soon your 5/32" bit is no longer drilling a 5/32" hole ...

If you do decide to go with Tapcons, I recommend the hex head ones. I have the hardest time trying to finish some of the screws with a phillips head, even in a screw gun. I find it much easier to crank the stubborn ones down with a ratchet. And the more you put in, the more stubborn they get. The drill bit starts to wear, and soon your 5/32" bit is no longer drilling a 5/32" hole ...

Amen to that. They are sometimes a pain to run down.

Eric

I ended up destroying the top plate to remove it and see for myself. Half way through I was left wondering why I was going through so much trouble to verify that it worked...


Because seeing a nail shot into a chunk of steel is cool.

What other reason do you need? ;)

Rent it. A good hammer drill is very expensive. You'll only need it for a few hours anyway.

BTW, you should probably check the local building codes to see if there is a requirement.



Yup. If you have relatively strong concrete a standard drill isn't going to cut it. I tried on my floor and I couldn't drill a single hole. I borrowed my friend's Hilti, and it took about 15 seconds per hole.
I found this old thread searching for info on which liquid nails to use building my riser...just a 2c to add. I picked up a DeWalt remanufactured hammer drill (primarily for putting in tapcons) and it is one of the best $59 I ever spent...about the same cost as renting a heavier duty hammer drill for two days locally.

My vote is for the ramset also. I have one and it's WAY more fun that even my Paslode butane powered framing nailer. There is nothing quite like the small wisp of smoke and the smell of gunpowder from the just spent shell that you eject from the gun. I mean really, how much more manly can you get than using construction tools that are powered by Remington?