i guess it is possible to burn dvd discs that can play hd in bd players and/or hd dvd players.

is there anything going on with using dvd writers to create hd content?

it seems like it could be useful to people making home video. also, maybe useful if people want to buy downloaded hd content and have the option to copy it to a dvd.

i was thinking about a device like appletv with a dvd writer.

i guess it is possible to burn dvd discs that can play hd in bd players and/or hd dvd players.

is there anything going on with using dvd writers to create hd content?

it seems like it could be useful to people making home video. also, maybe useful if people want to buy downloaded hd content and have the option to copy it to a dvd.

i was thinking about a device like appletv with a dvd writer.

I've been doing this for over a year. Check out the "Official Guide to HD-DVD authoring" in the HD-DVD Software Forum. It's a sticky thread.

I've been doing this for over a year. Check out the "Official Guide to HD-DVD authoring" in the HD-DVD Software Forum. It's a sticky thread.

thanks.

will the hd dvd style disks you make be supported on anything else after hd dvd goes away?

i am wondering if there is anything going on in addition to hd dvd.

will there be a standard format for such discs that works in bd players and possibly new red laser based dvd players/recorders?

The processors of DVD players are too weak to handle this. Not to forget that most movies get saved in MPEG4 or MKV.

I don't know if such backuped movies are playable on a PC with a normal DVD drive,however. My brother is testing this at the moment and will bring news by tommorow.

The processors of DVD players are too weak to handle this. Not to forget that most movies get saved in MPEG4 or MKV.

I don't know if such backuped movies are playable on a PC with a normal DVD drive,however. My brother is testing this at the moment and will bring news by tommorow.

true. it won't work on existing dvd players.

what i really had in mind was maybe a dvd recorder that records in hd on normal dvd media.... and new dvd players (or bd players) that can read such hd recordings.

you could use it for home video, hd broadcast recordings and "owning" downloaded movies.

You mean something like this:

http://www.nmeinc.com/

Lucky for the BDA these guys did not hit the street first - they would be toast.

I just bought Panasonic HDC-SD5 AVCHD SD card camcorder, which had a DVD burner bundled with it. It also has some primitive software for cuts-only editing.

Basically, you can do cuts-only editing either in the camera or on a computer, then burn a DVD (dual layer even) either from the camcorder or from a computer. Those discs can then be played back through the camcorder's HDMI out to an HDTV. The disc can also be played back in a BR player - with simple menus if created in the computer.

More sophisticated editing can be done, but the process is more complex. I think this is ideal for those wanting to "clean up" their home videos a little - and it can be done without even owning a computer.

I think we'll see more options coming too. Just keep your eyes open!

Dave

http://www.nmeinc.com/

Lucky for the BDA these guys did not hit the street first - they would be toast.Doubtful, and in my opinion VMD could have come out a year before Blu-ray/HD DVD and it would have had little effect since none of the major studios or major CE companies support it.

Doubtful, and in my opinion VMD could have come out a year before Blu-ray/HD DVD and it would have had little effect since none of the major studios or major CE companies support it.

Yeah right. But the way NME does it,is a very blessing one. Instead of getting the major studios onboard they have some contracts with the Asian,Australian and European distributors. Even The Golden Compass and The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellowship Of The Ring are near availability on HD-VMD.

Instead of getting the major studios onboard they have some contracts with the Asian,Australian and European distributors. Even The Golden Compass and The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellowship Of The Ring are near availability on HD-VMD.What exactly do you mean by near availability? Does that mean sometime in the next month or does that mean sometime in the "future"? Also from what I have seen the list of VMD titles you can buy in North America is pretty pitiful (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13258075&postcount=21).

I just bought Panasonic HDC-SD5 AVCHD SD card camcorder, which had a DVD burner bundled with it. It also has some primitive software for cuts-only editing.

Basically, you can do cuts-only editing either in the camera or on a computer, then burn a DVD (dual layer even) either from the camcorder or from a computer. Those discs can then be played back through the camcorder's HDMI out to an HDTV. The disc can also be played back in a BR player - with simple menus if created in the computer.

More sophisticated editing can be done, but the process is more complex. I think this is ideal for those wanting to "clean up" their home videos a little - and it can be done without even owning a computer.

I think we'll see more options coming too. Just keep your eyes open!

Dave

thanks dave. that is the type of thing i was talking about. found this on amazon description of your camcorder...

Editing Software "HD Writer 2.0" Full-HD video clips can be easily edited with the software provided or copied onto a DVD disc. The video data can be saved in either the AVCHD or DVD-VIDEO format, depending on how it will be played back. Recordings saved in the full-HD AVCHD format are suitable for playback with a Blu-ray Disc player, while DVD-Video (standard definition) recordings can be played back with a DVD player.

in addition to home video....

what i would really like is a dvd recorder that can record hd ota broadcast.

the second thought was to have the same gizmo be able to download (like appletv) and burn purchased hd content to dvd media.

found this info. about AVCHD ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

Red-laser based HD is already wide-spread among illegal/pirated/ripped HDM movie. Such ripped HD movie on DVD is plyable only on PC for now, but not playable on normal DivX DVD player, which can play AVI file of resolution up to 720 * 480 or 800*600.
There was failed attempt by Microsoft on HD on DVD: Terminator 2: Judgment Day in WMV9 format. The failure was due to too complicated /restrictive DRM and PC-only restriction, not picture quality or limitation of DVD technology.

But it is technically possible and it is only matter of time before new DivX DVD player will be able to play DivX movie of HD resolution like 1300*720p or even 1920*1080. I expect that such DVD decoder chip and DivX DVD player will emerge on market within 2 years. Such chip will cost $20-30, and player price $100-$150. Watch closely companies like Taiwanese MediaTek (leader in DVD chip) and Chinese DVD player manufacturers. Then, some minor/foreign movie studio may start to release HD movies in DVD.

Current BOM cost of Blue-ray player is around $160-$180, player price $400. If Blu-ray player continue to be expensive (like >$200), such HD on DVD will gain popularity. It will be kind of poor man's Blu-ray.
.

Red-laser based HD is already wide-spread among illegal/pirated/ripped HDM movie. Such ripped HD movie on DVD is plyable only on PC for now, but not playable on normal DivX DVD player, which can play AVI file of resolution up to 720 * 480 or 800*600.
There was failed attempt by Microsoft on HD on DVD: Terminator 2: Judgment Day in WMV9 format. The failure was due to too complicated /restrictive DRM and PC-only restriction, not picture quality or limitation of DVD technology.

But it is technically possible and it is only matter of time before new DivX DVD player will be able to play DivX movie of HD resolution like 1300*720p or even 1920*1080. I expect that such DVD decoder chip and DivX DVD player will emerge on market within 2 years. Such chip will cost $20-30, and player price $100-$150. Watch closely companies like Taiwanese MediaTek (leader in DVD chip) and Chinese DVD player manufacturers. Then, some minor/foreign movie studio may start to release HD movies in DVD.

Current BOM cost of Blue-ray player is around $160-$180, player price $400. If Blu-ray player continue to be expensive (like >$200), such HD on DVD will gain popularity. It will be kind of poor man's Blu-ray.
.

i think moving forward it would be a nice to have something for legitimate uses i mentioned. imo it needs to work in bd players and would be nice if it works with downloaded content (eg. a buy option for appletv).

realistically, for legit home user purposes, the capacity of bd isn't currently needed for much. would be nice if there were dvd recorders that can record hd given that the government is forcing the move to digital ota broadcast.

seems like avchd is a legit way to get hd on dvd into bd players. but maybe this will be fought against as a standard because of sony/panasonic pushing it?

is divx supported only on the ps3 for bd players?

maybe somebody will make a dvd recorder that records avchd or some other format? i would like to know what the standard format is for hd content on dvd. it seems like there isn't one.

maybe if some other format becomes popular in dvd recorders then future dvd and bd players will support that format?

if bd players don't support whatever new recording standard emerges then some people will bypass bd. (poor mans bd or just bd isn't doing what they want...either way, it could be lost customers for bd).

in addition to home video....

what i would really like is a dvd recorder that can record hd ota broadcast.

the second thought was to have the same gizmo be able to download (like appletv) and burn purchased hd content to dvd media.

Some Blu-ray/HDD recorders for the Japan market already have this capability. The lastest models from Panasonic allow you to not only record OTA HD broadcast on the HDD and save it to BD-R/RE discs, but also to regular DVD-R in AVC format.

Red-laser based HD is already wide-spread among illegal/pirated/ripped HDM movie. Such ripped HD movie on DVD is plyable only on PC for now.

HD DVD content burned to a standard DVD optical disc can be played on HD DVD players. With Toshiba exiting the market many of these players are selling for less than $75.

Blu-ray content burned to a standard DVD optical disc can be played on Blu-ray players.

Red-laser based HD is already wide-spread among illegal/pirated/ripped HDM movie. Such ripped HD movie on DVD is plyable only on PC for now, but not playable on normal DivX DVD player, which can play AVI file of resolution up to 720 * 480 or 800*600.
There was failed attempt by Microsoft on HD on DVD: Terminator 2: Judgment Day in WMV9 format. The failure was due to too complicated /restrictive DRM and PC-only restriction, not picture quality or limitation of DVD technology.

This is not really "red laser based" per se. It's simply a file that the PC is playing back. It could be on a hard drive, an external USB drive, etc.

The PS3 can do something similar with hidef files (AVI, etc).

Some Blu-ray/HDD recorders for the Japan market already have this capability. The lastest models from Panasonic allow you to not only record OTA HD broadcast on the HDD and save it to BD-R/RE discs, but also to regular DVD-R in AVC format.

i would like one of those. but, it doesn't need the bd recorder just dvd media.

i would like one of those. but, it doesn't need the bd recorder just dvd media.

Guess what, you can have that too. I hadn't checked out the non-BD models because I wasn't in the market for one, but it turns out that Panasonic also offers AVC HD recording and dubbing capability on their lower line decks as well. The DMR-XP12 streets for well under $500 U.S., even at the current awful exchange rate.

http://panasonic.jp/diga/products/xp/index.html

They have an approved logo for it::D

http://www.dvdforum.org/images/LogoMark_for_HD_DVD_Format_on_Red-laser_Recordable_Disc.pdf

They have an approved logo for it::D

http://www.dvdforum.org/images/LogoMark_for_HD_DVD_Format_on_Red-laser_Recordable_Disc.pdf

i could see toshiba or others making dvd recorders that use the standard dvd media. seems doubtful that they would use the "hd dvd" specs. but maybe they would to compete with AVCHD from sony/panasonic?

seems to me that red laser based hd will be using the dvd media (not some new format like vmd). so, i couldn't care any less about vmd.

no reason that they cannot put hd capabilities into future up converting dvd players.

will the red laser format of choice be driven by the camcorder market? seems like bd might help drive a hd on dvd recording format. but if companies start putting hd on dvd playback into up converting dvd players it could drive a different format or several different formats.

Guess what, you can have that too. I hadn't checked out the non-BD models because I wasn't in the market for one, but it turns out that Panasonic also offers AVC HD recording and dubbing capability on their lower line decks as well. The DMR-XP12 streets for well under $500 U.S., even at the current awful exchange rate.

http://panasonic.jp/diga/products/xp/index.html

i was looking for something like that last year. wonder why they don't sell them in the US.

i was looking for something like that last year. wonder why they don't sell them in the US.

Isn't that designed to record off Japanese "cable/sat?"

i was looking for something like that last year. wonder why they don't sell them in the US.


They used to but sales were so poor they dropped them. I was lucky to get a refurb EH55 and it is a terrific HDD DVR/DVD-R machine.

I don't know if the posted model tuner will work in the US since I think we use a different broadcast standard. But you could still use the S-video input to copy from a cable/satellite box if the output is not flagged. No TVguide, I would guess, and the manual/on-screen are probably in Japanese only.

Isn't that designed to record off Japanese "cable/sat?"

dunno lee. i was hoping somebody like you that has their finger on the pulse of this type of thing could tell us what is going on with hd on dvd media in the US.

i looked around a bit and didn't find any dvd recorders that record in hd and is isn't clear to me what the starndard format might be going forward.

seems like an obvious product. if you are going to have upconverting dvd players, why not record OTA broadcast and play back in real hd? also, playback camcorder hd? maybe allow people to buy downloads and backup to dvd media?

dunno lee. i was hoping somebody like you that has their finger on the pulse of this type of thing could tell us what is going on with hd on dvd media in the US.

i looked around a bit and didn't find any dvd recorders that record in hd and is isn't clear to me what the starndard format might be going forward.

seems like an obvious product. if you are going to have upconverting dvd players, why not record OTA broadcast and play back in real hd? also, playback camcorder hd? maybe allow people to buy downloads and backup to dvd media?

The only thing I can guess at is the fact that the law was just changed in July 2007 which made it legal to own your own CBL box so there has been no market here in the USA for a product like this.

I am talking about a CBL STB that would allow you to download a movie you have recorded on your DVR to HDM.

Would the studios be in favor of such a device? IMO - no - it would cut into HDM revenue.

The only thing I can guess at is the fact that the law was just changed in July 2007 which made it legal to own your own CBL box so there has been no market here in the USA for a product like this.

I am talking about a CBL STB that would allow you to download a movie you have recorded on your DVR to HDM.

Would the studios be in favor of such a device? IMO - no - it would cut into HDM revenue.

still. people are buying dvd recorders and hd camcorders... and the studios can't stop people from editing hd video on a pc.

my brother has a dvd recorder that he uses for basic dvd video editing.

basically the main missing piece is a chip to encode and decode avc. otherwise, it is the same as another sd dvd recorder. right?

still. people are buying dvd recorders and hd camcorders... and the studios can't stop people from editing hd video on a pc.

my brother has a dvd recorder that he uses for basic dvd video editing.

basically the main missing piece is a chip to encode and decode avc. otherwise, it is the same as another sd dvd recorder. right?

On VERY thin ice here:D I know very little about recording to disc.

And I can't see where DVD recorders or HD-Cam's have anything to do with a STB that is an HD DVR and a BD recorder all built into one. Sounds like a winner to me but what do I know?

Hollywood has a different attitude when it comes to HD versus SD.

One thing I do know is the cable companies are NOT happy about losing the revenue stream for STB rentals. The price of the Cable Cards proves that out.

On VERY thin ice here:D I know very little about recording to disc.

And I can't see where DVD recorders or HD-Cam's have anything to do with a STB that is an HD DVR and a BD recorder all built into one. Sounds like a winner to me but what do I know?

Hollywood has a different attitude when it comes to HD versus SD.

One thing I do know is the cable companies are NOT happy about losing the revenue stream for STB rentals. The price of the Cable Cards proves that out.

it is basically an easy to use box that allows you to backup, edit video and playback. you record from cable or broadcast and your own sources (camcorder or digital camera). my brother uses his (sd only) unit to backup some local programming, digital photos, home video, etc.

for example, they created a slide show from the school play photos....but it is only sd becasue the unit cannot take the camera photos and encode in hd.

it is basically an easy to use box that allows you to backup, edit video and playback. you record from cable or broadcast and your own sources (camcorder or digital camera). my brother uses his (sd only) unit to backup some local programming, digital photos, home video, etc.

for example, they created a slide show from the school play photos....but it is only sd becasue the unit cannot take the camera photos and encode in hd.

That may change because Toshiba MAY (speculation) continue to improve DVD. It is my understanding you can record 40 minutes of HD on a DV9 (?) but you need to play it in an HD DVD drive (???????)

I do know that a new working group has been formed at the DVD Forum to explore the use of the internet for DVD (2.0/WE) and they continue to work on this HD recorded to DVD with a red laser.

That may change because Toshiba MAY (speculation) continue to improve DVD. It is my understanding you can record 40 minutes of HD on a DV9 (?) but you need to play it in an HD DVD drive (???????)

I do know that a new working group has been formed at the DVD Forum to explore the use of the internet for DVD (2.0/WE) and they continue to work on this HD recorded to DVD with a red laser.

i have been wondering about some of that and what bda companies might do.

here is some added context...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

i have been wondering about some of that and what bda companies might do.

here is some added context...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

Thanks for the link. Appears this format is a HD-Cam only at this time . . . (?) I can see the application.

Thanks for the link. Appears this format is a HD-Cam only at this time . . . (?) I can see the application.

can also be used in a DVR (it is in camcorders in USA now). i guess it is used in Japanese DVRs that support hd on dvd. (see previous posts in this thread)

can also be used in a DVR (it is in camcorders in USA now). i guess it is used in Japanese DVRs that support hd on dvd. (see previous posts in this thread)

What about the caveats that are addressed in the Wiki link?

What about the caveats that are addressed in the Wiki link?

you mean bitrate issues?

in theory, if you use a dvr then there can be a hdd for recording and editing and then there is just the final burn on dvd. the playback drive should spin faster then normal dvd. (a 4x drive?)

also, you can have different record and editing settings. (reminds me of standard play and extended play on vhs). you can use lower resolution and sacrifice pq for more time on the disk and lower bitrates.

all doable stuff. but what is the standard?

if toshiba is sticking to dvd and going to invest more in downloads then maybe this type of device is where they will go. the hdd needed for video editing can also be used for downloads. also you need the avc decoder for hd downloads.

Bit rate is not a issue for HD on DVD. Playing HD need only 3 times bit rate of SD-DVD. Today's most DVD-ROM drive exceeds the bit rate.
So there is red-laser (DVD-9) based format called '3XDVD' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD#3x_DVD . AVCHD and BD-9 format from Sony (Blu-ray side) and HD-REC and 3XDVD format from Toshiba (HD-DVD side) are all the similar format that aims to record HD movie on DVD-R, DVD-ROM. To protect copyright/contents, they use similar DRM technology (AACS) with Blu-ray/HD-DVD.

Home recording of OTA HD boradcasting is bit difficult. The mpeg2 stream of ATSC broadcasting should be transcoded into VC-1 or H264 AVC. It too much for current CE technology. Encoding HD stream to VC-1/AVC requires very powerful DSP/ hardware. Such DSP costs more than $100.
There is a HD-DVD recorder which does such feat, but it is quite expensive.. http://www.physorg.com/news113072353.html

If ATSC stream is recored in mpeg2 codec without transcoding to VC-1/H264AVC, it can record about 40-60 min on SL DVD-R disc.

See this thread for more info on HD on DVD
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=965915
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i have been wondering about some of that and what bda companies might do.

here is some added context...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

AVCHD is a funny thing. It is clearly related to BD since it seems to have the same folder structure.

Also, Sony and Pannasonic versions are NOT 100% compatible. I found this out the hard way with HD camcorders. I hope they fix this in the future.

It is nice to create HD home movies on SD DVDs, although I am waiting for pirates to take advantage of this.:(

I hope that new generation of AVCHD compliant DVD recorder/ comcorder should use / include VC-1 and mpeg-2 codec, in addition to H.264/AVC. New Blu-ray player should support playing DVD disc recorded in AVCHD format with these three codec's.

For portable HD-camcorder, full HD H.264/AVC encoding requires too much hardware power and battery power. So AVCHD based HD camcorder is inferior to HDV (mpeg2) based HD camcorder in picture quality and battery life. By utilizing VC-1 codec, which is more easy on hardware and battery, HD camcorder can save considerably in hardware cost, battery power, size, weight, price and improve picture quality, too. Encoding H.264/AVC in HD picture quality is too much for most portable device.

By utilizing AVCHD format with mpeg2 codec, consumer can record HD program of ATSC OTA broadcasting / QAM cable channel on DVD recorder.
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