The more I'm reading about these new "free" or almost free converter boxes, the more I'm thinking maybe I should just pony up some real money, $100-150 (if they can be had for that), and get a real converter box. Not just a piece of junk that will be lucky to work for the months end, like some of the freebie ones seem like.
What would be the best choice and where could they be bought. I would prefer a B&M(at least to look at it) but wouldn't be against mail order, especially if they were as good as Monoprice has been to me.
Any suggestions on Brand-model or Place to get one?
I have a feeling with the proliferation of cheap converter boxes, and the inclusion of HD tuners in every TV now days, I should probably act sooner than later to get a decent box.
Note I would only really be using this box to feed to my Analog DVDR via S-cable, but really don't like the looks of the freebie units. I'm getting tired of junk!
Thanks for any insight. Oh and I would think the box would need to be able to output SD? and WS for sure to the S-out jack, WS is a must. I'm OTA only.

Edit-Weird, I've never been able to change the main title of my thread after posts had been made. Don't know why I could this time?? Maybe since it was the same day???

Thanks for any insight. Oh and I would think the box would need to be able to output SD? and WS for sure to the S-out jack, WS is a must. I'm OTA only.

I don't know for sure, but I think your requirement for WS is the killer. These "subsidized" boxes are intended to be used on analog 4:3 TVs. Hence, WS won't be necessary.

I'm not saying that these boxes will/won't have the ability to output anamorphic WS over s-video, but I kinda doubt it.

You're better off getting something like the Samsung 260 (or something like that). It's a "real" ATSC tuner. (note - I'm note sure if the Samsung has analog outputs).

ft

Thanks ft, that's exactly what I was asking about. I was kinda holding out for the "free" converter boxes but am beginning to realize a few things about those. Mainly they're going to be cheaper than dirt. I don't want that. I want a box that is well made and won't crap out after 30 days, even if I have to pay for it.
I didn't realize the fact that the "free" boxes might not have WS though, but your thinking makes sense. If that's the case I really need to move fast on a good box. I stopped at 2 better electronics stores at lunch and NONE had "real" boxes. One had nothing and the other had a couple of the "junk" free ones. The one with no boxes said they had not carried the real boxes for almost a year. He said all the new TV's have the tuner built in.

So you suggest the Sammy 260? Again I would like it to not be over $150 and is a must to have WS over S-out. Can you suggest a reasonable source?

So you suggest the Sammy 260? Again I would like it to not be over $150 and is a must to have WS over S-out. Can you suggest a reasonable source?

jeff,

Keep in mind that I don't have one of these Samsung 260 STBs. I'm basing my comments on the stuff that I've read over the years. Sadly, I don't really know where to buy them and how much they go for these days.

The Samsung is routinely recommended by people that own them. The only problem that I see is that they are a few years old, so they won't have the latest generation tuner chips. So they may not be as senstitive as the new stuff.

Unfortuneatly, there don't seem to be any "true-HD" STBs coming out. People with HD-Ready TVs that don't have tuners might want to look into snapping up the good ones before they disappear.

Be sure to check out the specs of the Samsung to make sure it'll do everything that you want.

ft

Thanks ft, that's exactly what I was asking about. I was kinda holding out for the "free" converter boxes but am beginning to realize a few things about those. Mainly they're going to be cheaper than dirt. I don't want that. I want a box that is well made and won't crap out after 30 days, even if I have to pay for it.
I didn't realize the fact that the "free" boxes might not have WS though, but your thinking makes sense. If that's the case I really need to move fast on a good box. I stopped at 2 better electronics stores at lunch and NONE had "real" boxes. One had nothing and the other had a couple of the "junk" free ones. The one with no boxes said they had not carried the real boxes for almost a year. He said all the new TV's have the tuner built in.

So you suggest the Sammy 260? Again I would like it to not be over $150 and is a must to have WS over S-out. Can you suggest a reasonable source?

As an owner of a Samsung DTB H260F hooked to an older, analog TV, I can predict that you may be happier with one of the "junk" (CECB) boxes.
The key feature the the 260 lacks, which the CECB's have is the ability to crop the picture to fit your 4:3 screen. So, when viewing a 4:3 program that's being broadcast in 16:9, you can zoom in and make the image fit your screen. With the Samsung, I always have to watch 4:3 programs framed by a black box. I've gotten used to it.
FWIW, in your situation I would use a $40 coupon (assuming you've applied), and get one of the CECB's. Currently, the one with the most favorable reviews is the Zenith (Radio Shack) and the Insignia (Best Buy). Both are made by LG and are the same box, just with different names.
As for build quality, and I'm going on a limb here, I doubt the Samsung 260 is any better built on the inside than most of the CECB's. One thing going for the CECB's is that many have a slightly better tuner, also they are a simpler box with less connections, so less chance of something going wrong.

The zoom would not be important to me, I want the full 16X9 output to record on to my Analog DVDR and then play the DVD's on my 16X9 TV.
What I was hoping by actually spending some money on the box would be a better build quality than might be available in the newer boxes. It seems the reviews I've read about the new ones only 1/2 work out of the box, and of the working ones people have other complaints about it's operation.

The Samsung DTB-H260F is a fine HDTV tuner - if you have a 16:9 HDTV with either component or HDMI/DVI inputs. Read the thread on the box for more details, but in essence -
no menus on anything but the HDTV outputs.

the NTSC outputs do a wierd horizontal squeeze to put the entire 16:9 image to fit into a 4:3 frame.

the NTSC outputs do a wierd horizontal squeeze to put the entire 16:9 image to fit into a 4:3 frame.

This sounds like it would be perfect for jjeff's intended use. He would output a WS HD channel anamorphically and record that onto a DVD.

Then, on his 16:9 HDTV, the DVD player (or HDTV) would stretch that back out to fit the 16:9 ratio. Just like a commercially pressed DVD.

ft

I was thinking the same thing. I'll check out the thread. Although no menu's to the S-out might be a problem...Any other boxes that might have more features aimed at the S-out instead of the digital outs? Oh and is the Sammy still made, and where might I purchase one?

Circuit City and Best Buy. You may have to order online from their websites.

Well I got though about page 5 of that 60! page thread and it sounds like NO menu's over s-out! bummer. I don't think it would be to convienyant for my use, also I would like a built in scheduler, which according to one post, the Sammy does not have. Do any other boxes have a scheduler and menu's available to the S-out, and good build quality? I'll visit my local BB/CC to look at the Sammy though. Thanks!

The Sammy DOES have a builtin scheduler - but - you have to view it through the HDTV outputs.... Not through the NTSC outputs. Considered as part of the "Menu" items.

That changes things then. I suppose I could setup the menu and scheduler via the HDMI viewing on my Panny LCD TV, then use the s-out to record squished 16x9 to my DVDR. So you're saying the Sammy can be setup to turn on and change channels at a preset time. So I would be able to use my timer on my DVDR to record from different channels at different times?
I know I read a post on one of the earlier pages of the thread from someone complaining that his $179 Sammy could not do that. He said he was going to return it. Maybe he was wrong, or was trying to view it via the composite or s video outs, which you say is not possible. Like I said it's a long thread and I stopped after about page 5. Thanks for your input.

I don't know about auto-turn on - but it will change channels.

The more I'm reading about these new "free" or almost free converter boxes, the more I'm thinking maybe I should just pony up some real money, $100-150 (if they can be had for that), and get a real converter box. Not just a piece of junk that will be lucky to work for the months end.....

Why not buy a couple of CECBs that other people are having luck with and burn them in for a couple of months. If they survive that they will probably last a while.

One thing I like about my Insignia converter is the metal case with real ventilation slots. Lower operating temperature should improve the long term odds. The Digital Stream & Magnavox boxes I looked at had plastic cases and ventilation holes that looked almost non-functional.

Both the Zenith and Insignia CECB's (which are apparently identical except for branding) can output a full 16:9 picture "squeezed" into a 4:3 frame. See the screenshots in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13222298#post13222298) in the Zenith thread.

I wouldn't expect them to set the "widescreen flag" on a DVD recorder, but that should be fixable by hitting the aspect ratio button on a widescreen TV's remote, or by re-burning the DVD after setting the flag on your computer.

Hey! thanks JT, sure looks like it does squeezed 16x9, exactly what I need. I still do have reservations about the build quality of any of these cheaper converter boxes though. I've been through the mill with cheaper DVDR's crapping out within a month, so I'm rather gun shy at the moment. Oh and the lack of a S-out kinda kills it for me. I'm hoping to get much better PQ using S-out to my DVDR vs. Composite. I know I get better PQ using S to the TV vs. composite.
I'd also prefer one with a display on the front of the unit. So far none I have seen have this feature. Even the Sammy 260 doesn't look like it has a display. Although I've been searching Amazon and I see a Sammy sir-t451 rebuilt for a little less than the new 260 and it looks like it has a display. Not sure how old it is though, or if it has any issues. I'll have to try and find a thread on it.
edit:looks like not a whole lot out there on the 451, anybody care to compare it to the 260?

All these CECBs should do letterbox, zoom, centercut and full.

That changes things then. I suppose I could setup the menu and scheduler via the HDMI viewing on my Panny LCD TV, then use the s-out to record squished 16x9 to my DVDR.

That's how it's designed to be used. The advantage of not having menus visible over the composite or s-video is that you cannot accidentally record them. Example: If you use the timer on the Samsung to record two consecutive shows on different channels, you don't want to record the little pop-up reminder that comes on telling you it's about to change channels.

So you're saying the Sammy can be setup to turn on and change channels at a preset time. So I would be able to use my timer on my DVDR to record from different channels at different times?

The Samsung has a guide, and can be set to change channels automatically if you select a program from the guide. I've used this feature on my machine and it has worked fine. However, the other night I tried setting a program then shut the Samsung off and waited for it to come back on. It never did.
Also, the guide is completely dependent on the individual broadcasters to send out data. Where I live (Seattle area), most stations don't go beyond 24 hours, a few go 48 hours, and one goes 36 hours out. Some don't broadcast program data at all. You may want to check your local forum to see how the broadcasters in your area are doing in this regard.

I've used my Samsung to record shows and like the fact that it records the entire image onto the 4:3 frame. I then use my TV to compress the image vertically and everything looks great. If you are using the Samsung to record DVD's for playback on a 16:9 TV, it should work well for you, especially if your DVDr can up-convert.

Best I know, the Samsung H260F will only output from the S-Video output when the entire box is set to 480i mode. While the S-Video output is menu-free, you can always simultaneously use a composite video cable, and connect to the TV via a composite input on the TV, and the green portion of the component jacks on the Samsung. That way, you can get black and white menus, but the entire menu system, nevertheless.

The Samsung can only output one channel at a time. The H260F is better than the SIR-451 at resisting multipath-related dropouts, which may be important -- even my H260F has issues where I live.

I suggest an H260F before a CECB -- it will have more worth in the future as HD becomes the norm; the CECB's can't legally output in HD. Who knows; maybe the future will bring on Blu-Ray HD disk recorders with component inputs, and with the Samsung, you willl be ready.....

The Samsung has a guide, and can be set to change channels automatically if you select a program from the guide.
Also, the guide is completely dependent on the individual broadcasters to send out data. Where I live (Seattle area), most stations don't go beyond 24 hours, a few go 48 hours, and one goes 36 hours out. Some don't broadcast program data at all. You may want to check your local forum to see how the broadcasters in your area are doing in this regard.

So does the Sammy have have a schedule that you can manually program, like a VCR for DVDR?
If the guide is the PCIP guide(like my Vizio LCD tv has) your are correct, it only goes out from 6hrs to sometimes 3 days, and it's not 100% accurate. I guess I would rather a guide I could just program like a VCR. I understand what you are getting at about no OSD in the recordings. I guess it makes sense, I don't want to be recording those. Thanks

All these CECBs should do letterbox, zoom, centercut and full.
Then if by full you mean 16x9 squeezed into a 4x3 frame then they should work for me, then it's only the build quality and programable time I have to worry about. I guess it may be back in the line waiting for the TR-40 and hope for build quality.

Best I know, the Samsung H260F will only output from the S-Video output when the entire box is set to 480i mode. While the S-Video output is menu-free, you can always simultaneously use a composite video cable, and connect to the TV via a composite input on the TV, and the green portion of the component jacks on the Samsung. That way, you can get black and white menus, but the entire menu system, nevertheless.

The Samsung can only output one channel at a time. The H260F is better than the SIR-451 at resisting multipath-related dropouts, which may be important -- even my H260F has issues where I live.

I suggest an H260F before a CECB -- it will have more worth in the future as HD becomes the norm; the CECB's can't legally output in HD. Who knows; maybe the future will bring on Blu-Ray HD disk recorders with component inputs, and with the Samsung, you willl be ready.....

I don't like the fact that I cannot output S and HD at the same time, are you sure of that? It sounds like you're saying it "CAN" output composite and HD at the same time, but not S and HD? that would stink!
So it sounds like the SIR-451 is a older version of the H260F? I liked the looks and idea the SIR-451 had a display on it, but wouldn't care if the reception was not as good. After all I guess the looks of the picture is more important than the looks of the box.
HD output is not really nessasary for me in my situation, I was just hoping that by going to a HD box I would get better build quality and more features than might be found on the CECB's.
Thanks for all your thoughts guys, I think I'll swing buy CC or BB today and check out the Sammy 260.

Best I know, the Samsung H260F will only output from the S-Video output when the entire box is set to 480i mode. While the S-Video output is menu-free, you can always simultaneously use a composite video cable, and connect to the TV via a composite input on the TV, and the green portion of the component jacks on the Samsung. That way, you can get black and white menus, but the entire menu system, nevertheless.


The S-Video outputs (and the composite video ones too) are ALWAYS on, no matter what resolution is set for the component / HDMI outputs.
Yes - I own a Samsung DTB-H260F. The only kicker is that they do not display the menues. Yes, you can set the component to 480i and connect the green component to a yellow composite video and at least have "SOME" menu capability. The signal meter is still essentially useless without color, though. One way around this would be to get a device that converts 480i component to composite / s-video - this is about the cheapest device I've seen that does it - http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html .

If you have an LCD computer monitor with a DVI input, you can use an HDMI-DVI cable to display in full HDTV.

Thanks Scooper, you've been helpful. It's nice to read from someone who actually has one. The menu thing shouldn't be a problem since I have a 720p LCD with all the inputs. It's just the S-out that I want to run to my DVDR. I also understand why they didnt do the menu's over S, I really would not want to record the menu's as someone else said. I don't think it's a flaw, but good design, in my case anyway.
Thanks again!

Well I bought the Sammy 260 at the suggestion of many of you and thought I'd post my comments about it.

The whole purpose for the box was to provide a signal to record digital WS HD channels to my Analog DVDR. Hoping to get the quality recording of something like a Panny EZ DVDR, without ALL it's bugs. Here are my results.

First the true HD output via HDMI to my Panny 720p LCD was basically as good as the built in tuner. No issues with it what so ever. Note to anyone else trying to do the same to their DVDR you must have a HDMI or Component connection to your TV in order to see how to setup the 260, no OSD's are outputted to S or composite out. This is very well pointed out in the manual. Since there is no display on the unit(bugged me a lot for something in the price range of this unit) you really need that digital connection.

The PQ recording to my DVDR via the S-out was even better than the Panny EZ units. Spot on! The PQ from the composite was also very good, only a little below S out.

The event timer/scheduler was the deal killer though. It uses the PCIP EPG, which in my area only goes out 4hrs up to about 2 days. This is the only way to program the Sammy to change channels, and if it's not on the EPG list it cannot be programed. NO manual override. Also no manual clock adjustment, so if your PCIP is off by a few minutes, like in my area it is occasionally, you're SOL. Note the Sammy also needs to be left ON all the time if you want to have it change channels by itself.
The remote was better than average and overall built quality was fine, better than the $40 CECB's I've seen, but I wouldn't say worth $130 more, if the true HD output didn't matter to you.

So overall kind of a mixed bag for me. I think I'll return the 260 and hope the Echostar TR-40 has a better scheduler. I don't need the true HD output of the 260 but need it's squished 16x9 format, which I hope the CECB's will have.

Note with the 260 I was able to get the exact WS format I wanted for my DVDR. In fact the 260 seemed to only have one output format to the S and composite outputs and it was the one my DVDR's wanted. I got full 16x9 recordings to my DVD's. Only needing to "stretch 4x3 format to fit 16x9 screen" which is how all my DVD players are set up.

jjeff - I just thought of something. With Digital Stream's last, HD ATSC tuner, it could be controlled by a Panny recorder's IR blaster using a Pioneer cable box code. It could only change to the main channels though, not the subs.

So if that interests you, maybe you'd want to give the new one from Radio Shack a try.

Unfortunately none of my Panny's have the IR blaster! I think?? they were only on the ones with the HDD, which none of mine have.
I'll just have to wait for the TR-40 and hope it has what I need. That or just live with a one channel timer. Kinda like one of my earlier VCR's, you know the ones with a mechanical tuner:D

If you can get hold off the hisense tuner from ebay ($40-$50), it will serve your purpose. I am fully OTA, and my antenna goes to a splitter, which splits the RF signal to my HDTV (has builtin tuner) and the Hisesne. This way, I can watch any channel (wifey wants it) and record the other one in the background.
The hisense is set to output 16:9 via s-video and RCA audio out. Both the s-video and RCA audio out goes to my DVD-R135 (DVD-Recorder/divx player). The DVD player outputs HDMI to the TV. The DVD (optical) and TV (coax) digital audio out are connected to the reciever. I can connect the optical digital out for the hisense to the the reciever too and also am able to output 1080i via the component output. But, I didn't complicate it and using the Hisense only for OTA recording. I recorded the 2-hr episode of "Lost" yesterday in SP format (~2.15hr per DVD-R), and the quality is near DVD like with no black bars, no zoom and full 16x9 with amazing picture clarity for a 37" TV at a viewing distance of 6 ft. I will try to post the recording quality after I reach home.

Also, I believe all the 3 CECB boxes (zenith, RCA and Magnavox) have option to output 16x9 via composite video. Check their individual thread to confirm. I remember seeing these options.

Thanks, I'll check out the Hisense? tuner. Yes it's amazing the PQ that can be achieved recording off of HD channels to a DVD. It's a night and day difference recording a 16x9 HD channel compared to SD 4x3.
I really hate to record SD channels anymore.