Hi all,

This is my first post, although I’ve been reading the forum on and off for about a year now (more on then off recently, much to my wife’s disgust). Anyhow, as you might guess from the name I’m building a new house with a theatre in Australia. We are yet to start building but are aiming for an October/November finish.

Room details:
- Width = 4.25m or ~14ft
- Depth/length = 5.50m or ~18ft
- Height = 2.60m or 8.5ft
- This is pretty good from what I understand, with only the length letting us down a bit, but thats life.

Gear details:
- VAF Research I93’s across the front (vaf.com.au for those who haven’t heard about these)
- VAF Research I66’s main rears
- VAF Sound Wall for the secondary rears (the ones on the back wall, whatever they are called)
- VAF LFE-03 Sub x 2
- NAD C272 amps x 6 (1 driving each main channel and 1 for the two smaller rears)
- NAD M15 pre amp
- DVD? Probably Denon2930..wait and see what is available at the time
- Thor power conditioner (thortechnologies.com.au)
- 100inch 16:9 screen
- 1080p projector (whatever’s good when the rooms done – maybe JVC or Mitsubishi)

Layout:
- Room for 4 seats/recliners – 1.5m from rear wall, plus some bean bags. If there are any readers from Australia that can recommend a chair type that would be appreciated. Topform seems to be the only real option and they are about $3k each…a bit rich. Jason recliners are rubbish so we’re not left with many options
- Equipment rack in rear corner
- Centre speaker mounted above screen and angled at the main seating positions
- Subs located in between the left and right channels

Acoustics:
- Offset the rear wall by ~5degrees. I know this is going to start a bit of controversy, but Vaf are pretty adamant about it so I think it’ll happen – I’ll put the rack in the largest section of the offset…aesthetics might cause me to change my mind but we’ll see. Even 200mm offset is supposed to help.
- Bass traps in the front corners with OC703 equivalent (something called Perforated Ultratel, which CSR make here in Australia), comparison as follows:

Type 125hz 250hz 500hz 1000hz 2000hz 4000hz 5000hz
Ultratel 0.12 0.31 0.81 1.09 1.09 0.91 0.89
OC703 0.11 0.28 0.68 0.9 0.93 0.96

- It’s the closest thing I can find, is there too much at the high end?
- How thick should this be on the screen wall?
- I will hang panels over the first reflection points (side walls and ceiling), some questions:
(a) Do I need an absorption panel on the rear wall? If so where?
(b) Given the centre speaker will be mounted above the screen will having the panels on the ceiling just above it negatively impact on its performance?
(c) How thick should the panels be (the above data is for 25mm, say 1inch)

- I am trying to decide whether or not a stage is necessary, the main speakers weigh 100kg each, the subs I’m guessing about 25kg each therefore that’s a total weight of 250kg. On the assumption that the “acoustically isolated stage” thing is of benefit what would the stage need to weigh? By my calculations sand isn’t going to cut it, it’d have to be filled with lead shot, even then I’d need to find an acoustic mat which has a compression ratio greater than the total weight, otherwise It’d be useless from what I understand? Then there’s the height issue, I’d need to put the first row on a small riser if I had a stage. Some thoughts on this would be appreciated.
- GOM – people seem to cover their whole room with this stuff, is anything placed behind the fabric all over or just the reflection points treated? If it is on the wall is it just attached flush with the dry wall or is there a gap between.
- Green glue – this stuff is very expensive here, from my understanding it is used to reduce the resonance of the walls? I thought we could line the entire room with 18mm-25mm MDF and then use liquid nails in a similar fashion to GG application and stick a layer of dry wall over that…it’d be solid as – would this work as a reasonable substitute?
- Alternatively, could I just use 25mm MDF and get a reasonable finish with paint on it? Or I would just cover it with GOM or equivalent?

As a general comment, there are some inspiring rooms here! Unfortunately budget limits us to good gear and good room rather than anything flashy looking, but I’ve got a lot of great and affordable ideas from you all so thankyou for that.

Hi Elill,

Have you made any progress with your theatre? What city do you live in?

Cheers,
Simon

Howdy, we live in Sydney.....I can’t believe that someone has replied to this thread after so long. A MKII version will be done when we start, as the room has changed a little (width..........so annoying)

Council gave the thumbs down to the first set of plans - we've subsequently sacked our first builder, gone with a new one and are about 2-3 months away from moving in....painful process. New builder is fantastic though, I mean really, really good.....30% more expensive though, but much better house. You get what you pay for I guess.

Money is tight so it might take a while to get it finished (I'll be doing the fitout myself) - the annoying thing is that I've got a lot of the gear (amp [Master Series 7 channel] and receiver [Denon 3808A]) and had to order the speakers (gone with the smaller I66’s and sound wall for rears to save some money - but we're also getting VAF's all new mother of all subs) as the AUD has been smashed from here to God knows where (98cents AUD/USD at its peak last year to 66cents today). All of the importers have put prices up ~25% to 30% and VAF have also put a price rise in as most of their components come from Norway (Seas drivers)

So we’ll move in and have these crates sitting in the garage with all of this cool stuff in it that I cant touch until the room is done (well don’t want to unpack at any rate)

Still going with room in room construction, will probably use 2x4 for studs (might change due to a small entry with of ~680mm) and HY joists that Carter Holt Harvey make for the ceiling. We’ve got some plumbing in the road which I’ll have to cut around.

Decided not to go with green glue – I know people say it works and the lab data say it works, but I don’t see how if you are screwing the sheets together – the screws are just going to create a flanking path?...plus the cost issue

I’m not sure about acoustic treatment either. I want to put a chair rail in the room and panels will stuff that up….not sure yet. Putting traps in the front corners is still and option, but undecided yet. I’ll also have 2 small columns as there is plumbing that needs to be hidden on one side in the wall/roof corner so I thought why not.

Might do a riser too, but seating is proving difficult with ~3.7m width

Thanks for asking!

Back to work…

Hi,

Not sure how I missed the thread first time round, but stumbled on to it when I did a search for VAF. I'm a satisfied VAF customer and was just curious to see if there were any others on AVS :). I'm also on the list for the SW19! Fingers crossed it'll be arriving late February. A few years ago I bought the DCX, DC6 and DC3's for my surround setup. I wanted to grab the VAF stuff before they had to increase prices as well, so have a DCX centre channel on order as well as upgrades for the other DC speakers :D.

I feel your pain with councils, took me 6 months to get renovation plans through :-\

My Dad (he's a builder) and I have done all the work so far, so it's been slow going on weekends and holidays. We have the room all gyprocked and plastered, just work on the rest of the house has taken priority. So i'll be in the same boat and have all these toys sitting there in their boxes ;)

I couldn't justify the cost of green glue either :-\ We insulated all the walls and used a firecheck gyprock which is thicker and has better accoustic properties than the standard gyprock.

I think the chair rail would work to your advantage, most people only "treat" their room up to ear level so that may be perfect. I've been looking around for equivalents of the linocoustic used in the US and the CSR supertel products look to be the closest match. Just have to find someone to supply it once I get working on the room.

Shame you couldn't stick with 4.5m width you had originally planned. How many were you hoping to seat? 6?

Cheers,
Simon

Hi Simon,

We have the DC series as well (the old ones though)...not sure if you've ever heard the sig. series stuff? We went to Adelaide to check it out - you read reviews about how good it is but I never really believed the hype...oh how was I wrong. Its almost like I was listening to music (and soundtracks for that matter) with earmuffs on before...the detail, soundstage etc etc is all true, absolutely incredible. We have a pretty good setup at present, but it doesn't even come close...its simply that good. I've listened to speakers that cost 10 times as much ($70k-80k) and the VAF gear is better IMHO.

Anyway, enough of that, glad to hear your room is coming along - have you got a build thread?

I'm going to use BGC's fire rated board, its denser then the boral/csr equivalents and cheaper.

We had hoped to have a single row of 4. I am now thinking 2 rows of 2, or maybe a "bar" at the back or 3-4 traditional cinema seats. The best is to have 2 in the front row, so I might do that and get 2 bean big bags (sitbackandrelax.com.au). can always change the seating later.

Ultratel is the same as OC703...not cheap though, I cant remember where I got a price on it, but its expensive - your Dad might be able to get it cheaper.

Good luck - glad to see I'm not the only Aussie here!....actually there are a few others, but not many builds. I am hoping to fly the flag high, but we'll see how it goes....its all about the cash unfortunately

Hey,

No unfortunately (probably fortunately for my wallet) I haven't heard the sig. series. I think when it comes time to upgrade the DC series i'll get myself over to Adelaide for an audition.

I did have a thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909690) but because i'm going so slowly it hasn't really gathered any momentum. Once the rest of the house has been sorted and I can start concerntrating on the theatre I will try to get cracking on the build thread!

Thanks for the sitbackandrelax site, I had been looking for somewhere to buy a hammock and saw some great ones there! Some of their been bags are aweseome as well, and would make great overflow seating :D.

I haven't chased up many places to buy the CSR insulation from. CSR did respond to a question I sent from their website which pointed me in the direction of one of their suppliers here in Canberra. I figured it'd probably be pretty pricey.

Cheers,
Simon

If you dont mind me asking, How much did you get quoted for the CSR Bradfords Supertel....

FWIW I use the CSR Bradford Ultratel it comes in 2" 2400x1200 sheets and comes in bags of 3 sheets Ultratel has A much higher cf rating than Supertel & also higher than OWNS Corning's 705...Used it for my 4x 8ft high BroadBand Corner bass traps and all my other Bass traps and First reflection points...

You should'nt under estimate DIFFUSION either, Its as important as Absorbtion IMO and highly underated by some (because of there complexity thus higher manufacturing costs involved when compared to absorbtion) if applyed correctly it is A win win for sound quality....

I am currently Building Flutter Echo Diffusor Tiles and then Building advanced QRD nested Broad Band Diffusors which cost around $2000au for the RPG equivalent....I love DIY and the money you can save :D....

Cheers.....

Hi cinema mad,

I hadn't had the chance to get any prices on the supertel, the response I got from CSR was only the name of a potential supplier in the region. I mentioned it to my dad and he said that his building supply company should be able to get it as well, so I haven't chased it up yet. Can I ask what the ball park for ultratel was?

Well done with the bass trap it looks fantastic! How many did you build? Out of curiosity where did you get the fabric you used? Is it a speaker cloth?

I hadn't really seen any DIY diffusors, do you have a link or any info on how to go about it? Did you route the channels yourself?

Cheers,
Simon

What does the Ultratel set you back?

I've got some scribbles in a notebook for a supertel price of ~$50 a bag...not sure though

In my first post I talked about offsetting the rear wall by 10degrees - this basically acts as a massive diffuser - I've been thinking about something a little different though. Put absorption up to ear height at the back and then put a convex bit of ply above that running the length of the back wall. Problem is I've got a little hallway in one of the back corners....

Got any photos of your diffuser?

I think I'll build the room with accomodation for front wall treatment and traps, and if I have the money I'll put them in. I'm also toying with the idea of putting traps along the wall/ceiling corner as my rears at 600mm and will straddle the corner at 45degrees

Yeah CSR Bradfords will not deal direct with the public... For the 3xpack of 2" thick 2400x1200 Ultratel semi rigid fiberglass retails at $350au, But I get it for whole sale so much less $$...

I have A thread at the home theatre shack in the home audio acoustics forum devoted to DIY BroadBand Bass Traps called 'BroadBand Bass Trap's Build' and covers tuned Bass Traps and DIY Diffusors...

Here is the link to my Thread if you are interested http://http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-acoustics/14456-broadband-bass-traps-build.html....

All the info on the parts needed including fabrics and where to get it is all in my thread over at the SHACK.. Let me know what you think....

FWIW:You can never over do it on Bass Traps, but for best bang for buck$$$ & performance placing the BroadBand bass traps in corners is the best option.. Because of the large air gap behined the traps this can more than double there performance meaning you can save $$$ on your Supertel/Ultratel.......

Hope This Helps...

Cheers....

Yeah CSR Bradfords will not deal direct with the public... For the 3xpack of 2" thick 2400x1200 Ultratel semi rigid fiberglass retails at $350au, But I get it for whole sale so much less $$...

Crap, $350 a bag, thats a couple of grand then to do the front wall, corners etc.

As I said, I think I'll provision for it and put it in later. I've found a GOM supplier in Melbourne too - Acoustic Vision

Think of your Room as, if not more important than your audio gear if you want to bring out the best performance in your Audio gear that is.....

In An Acoustically Treated room cheep speakers can sound as good if not better than High End Speakers in an untreated room...

Remember $2000-$3000au in DIY Acoustic treatments "can be" the equivalent to paying $12,500au from an Acoustic treatment supplies company for the same performance, especially when you factor in how low the Aussie dollar is at the moment no......

Cheers....

In An Acoustically Treated room cheep speakers can sound as good if not better than High End Speakers in an untreated room...


I know....thanks for the links and info too, its most useful having a local perspective on suppliers etc. I found a place, albeit in WA, selling Ultratel for quite a bit cheaper - ceilings.com.au

As I said I'll probably build the room as if there is treatment and add it as and when I can...I've got a mental picture of it and it'll look quite good.

...just go the quote for strucural landscaping....there goes the theatre for another 6 months.

Tip - never, ever build a house on a block that slopes more than 1m in any direction......ours has an 8m rise....dont do it

It looks like the ceilings.com.au site is selling the ultratel by the sheet. so when you buy 3 sheets you are back up to the $350 mark that cinema mad mentioned :(

I live in the Seattle area, but am moving back down to Australia this year and planning to do my own home theater in my house down there.

I'd definitely like pointers on where to find DIY supplies down there.

for example


RSIC clips
absorption/dispersment panels for walls/bass traps
gom type frabic
led lights


Here in the good old US of A, supplies are plentiful, distribution is good, and competition keeps prices down.

not really sure what to expect in Australia, it's been 10 years since I lived there.

Clips, I am not using so dont know much about (brands etc) - but have seen various versions around the place - Plastamasta sell them I know that much

Gom - as I said, Acoustic Vision in Melbourne

Panels - lots of different types and version, Acoustic Vision sell what looks like good ones. McCleans in Gosford of all places have some really nice ones. The guy there know's what he's talking about too in terms of treatment - not cheap though - but really very good. There is a guy in Gordon, Sydney - Electronic Enterprises, which sell fibreglass ones which are ok too - again another good guy

LED's - lots of places, but most is imported crap from China. digilin.com.au/ have some really good stuff - commercial grade, but expensive. The NSW rep is a good guy - cant remember his name

In Sydney Len Wallis Audio and Audio Connection are the two premier shops for gear etc....they are pretty brand loyal....like all businesses both are good at sales, I like the AC guys better, I feel they stock a broader range of stuff e.g. automation systems - on that note stay away from C-BUS from clipsal, its rubbish, but popular and well sold.

Elill, How much is Acoustic Vision asking for there GOM per mt ??...
I have spoken to the Guy at Acoustic Vision before....

Cheers....

$45+GST per lineal metre < 20 yards. (Minimum order 10 yard lots only)

$40+GST per lineal metre >20+yards.

This was in August pre A$ tanking