Prism Sources

[sillymeeee]

Hello!

Can we have this thread contain prism sources?

Anyone who is thinking about the DIY approach would find this useful to locate the prism sources in one convenient thread.

I am not looking for which company is best...or which has the worst distortion...just a list to get me started. We can debate the best and worst later. If you know where to purchase...list the URL.

Thanks!
Greg

EDIT:
Keeping track of sources here:

1. Surplus Shed
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l9113d.html
2. The Massillon Plaque Company
http://www.massillonplaque.com/produ...4&productid=85
3. Precision Crystal
http://www.precisioncrystal.com/catalog/products/optical-crystal-wedge.html

[oman321]

Here's a source
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l9113d.html

FYI: These prisms are smaller than typical DIY prisms which are used from the trophy companie's. However they do work on several projectors and I have a little bit room for zoom if need be. I have an Epson HC 400. The nice thing is that they have are coated already to reduce reflections.

[Person99]

Here's a source
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l9113d.html

FYI: These prisms are smaller than typical DIY prisms which are used from the trophy companie's. However they do work on several projectors and I have a little bit room for zoom if need be. I have an Epson HC 400. The nice thing is that they have are coated already to reduce reflections.

What throw is required to use these prisms?

[oman321]

Sorry, cant say for sure what throw is required. However check out this thread which I started back when I got the prisms last year.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=889863
Several folks here got the prisms while we could and have been able to make them work with several different projectors.

[Steve Scherrer]

I got my prisms from Massillon plaques:

www.massillonplaque.com

http://www.massillonplaque.com/product-detail.php?templateid=4&productid=85

[nelliekins]

Hi all,

After much trawling of the web, I've found a source of cheap (under $10 US per unit :D) crystal wedge prisms in the UK:

www . xpres . co . uk (sorry, but I can't post direct links yet - first-time poster!)

NOTE: you must place a minimum order of 50 GBP with Xpres (I ended up ordering 8 large prisms and some crystal-to-crystal glue!).

Neil.

[deputydj]

Also found them at :
http://www.precisioncrystal.com/catalog/products/optical-crystal-wedge.html

[applesandrice]

Also found them at :
http://www.precisioncrystal.com/catalog/products/optical-crystal-wedge.html

$22/each for 4"x6" prisms + $12.50 shipping = a purchase by me just a few minutes ago!:)

Can't wait to get them. I realize I'm taking the super-cheap route, here, especially in that they aren't coated. I'm anxious to get into CIH, though, and want to get rolling on building my screen!

Thanks for all the great info, guys!

[deputydj]

The uncoated prisms workd fine. I built lens box with reference to cavx plans. I had to play with prisms to get shadows and reflections gone or minimized. I havent noticed any stray light on screen. I built my own screen out of BOC , I purchased a barely used Benq w10000. So yes you can say I went cheap route. Everyone who watches a blue ray on it loves it including myself. So I would say for the diy go ahead It is the only way to watch movie Down the road I will probably upgrade screen and lens but for now glad I didnt wait

[Dark_Wizard]

deputydj,

Thx for the info. I just got off the phone with Mark (great guy!) and he is out of the 4"x6" wedges and expects more in mid to late October. I am going to order the 5x7 wedges and go from there. Mark stated that although these wedges are not used for optical purposes, his wedges are far better quality than most places provide.

Lastly, he has noticed an increase in sales and I pointed him to this site. ;)

Bob

[applesandrice]

deputydj,

Thx for the info. I just got off the phone with Mark (great guy!) and he is out of the 4"x6" wedges and expects more in mid to late October. I am going to order the 5x7 wedges and go from there. Mark stated that although these wedges are not used for optical purposes, his wedges are far better quality than most places provide.

Lastly, he has noticed an increase in sales and I pointed him to this site. ;)

Bob

Yeah, I got a notice from him this morning that they were temporarily out of the 4"x6"-ers. Doggonnit.

Hopefully they'll be in within the month, but this'll give me some more time to finish building my new projector mount . . .

[csero]

IMHO the best prisms for experiment are the ones from old superPANATAR or SUPERCOPE anamorhic assemblies. They are relatively small, but wok well for longer throw setups (1.5 throw ratio). In theit original assemblies they are too far apart, but if you remove the prisms and build a box for them where they are muh closer to each other and to the projector lens, they work well.
They are bonded from 2 glassess, so no CA, and also AR coated. Focus is excellent corner to corner. The Superscope has a very low transmission loss. The Panatar is higher loss, perfect for taming too bright projectors.

I've tried the glass wedges, but these are legaues above if you can fit the beam to the smaller prisms.

[Dark_Wizard]

IMHO the best prisms for experiment are the ones from old superPANATAR or SUPERCOPE anamorhic assemblies.

Maybe so but would be very difficult for just your average Joe to locate these hence the thread.


Sillymeeee, please add Precisioncrystal as a resource. I just received mine yesterday and the packaging as well as the quality of the wedges is far more than I expected. Now I am on a high just thinking about how they will make my CIH experience a complete reality!

Bob

[csero]

They are showing up on ebay regularly in the $50-200 range

[Dark_Wizard]

They are showing up on ebay regularly in the $50-200 range

Do you have a link for a recent listing?

[csero]

Search for "SUPER PANATAR" in the completed list and 3 will show up. The SUPERSCOPE is not as common, but seen that too recently.

[MohaimenK]

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPER-PANATAR-ANAMORPHIC-PANAVISION-LENS_W0QQitemZ330275755259QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item3302757552 59&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A13%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://i8.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/10/9e/b8ed_2.JPG

[oman321]

csero or anyone else, are you familiar with the quality of the optics on the super panatar? Obviously the housing seems straight foward enough, it can perhaps rival some of current gen lens housings. However, the optics, are they made up of optical glass of decent quality or would be more comprable to trophy wedges?

[MohaimenK]

csero or anyone else, are you familiar with the quality of the optics on the super panatar? Obviously the housing seems straight foward enough, it can perhaps rival some of current gen lens housings. However, the optics, are they made up of optical glass of decent quality or would be more comprable to trophy wedges?

Reason I didn't buy it :D

Don't want to waste $$$ to find out either. I'll stick to DIY. Soon as they get the 4x6 for $22 :rolleyes:

[Dark_Wizard]

Well I finished my lens using the wedges from Precision Crystal and must say I am very impressed. Here is a screen shot on a 10' wide SMX screen with a throw of 15'.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/Dark_Wizard_1/PICT0194.jpg

I would highly recommend these wedges, pic quality is absolutely amazing!

[cray54]

Dark_Wizard (and anyone else with other prisms), could you post some images of test patterns that help indicate the level of astigmatism and chromatic aberration?

Thanks - Chris

[spvoyek]

Dark_Wizard - that's awesome! I can't wait to do the same, but I'm thinking I'll wait for the 4x6ers. You got your wedges on the 4th and you're already done! That's impressive. It must not have been too difficult? Any words of wisdom?

I'm planning to follow this DIY article: http://www.zuggsoft.com/theater/prism.htm

Did Mark/Precision Crystal give you any price break for ordering blanks and/or minus the included satin lined gift box?

[Dark_Wizard]

Dark_Wizard - that's awesome! I can't wait to do the same, but I'm thinking I'll wait for the 4x6ers. You got your wedges on the 4th and you're already done! That's impressive. It must not have been too difficult? Any words of wisdom?]

Difficult? No. It took me 2 days from start to finish and these were full days of work taking my time so as not to accidently drop the wedges and to make sure everything was well constructed. I would suggest that you keep a can of paint thinner handy when using the epoxy as well as a single edge razor blade in case any epoxy gets on the glass during the bonding of the plexiglass to the prism. Make sure 4x6ers are gonna be enough, I grabbed the 5x7 prisms and think that possibly the others may have been close.


I'm planning to follow this DIY article: http://www.zuggsoft.com/theater/prism.htm]

I followed this article as well as Mark's (CAVX) (http://cavx.blogspot.com/2006/09/marks-home-theatre-projects-anamorphic.html) page. Grab his test pattern on that page when you do your prototype so your lens is somewhat close to the image you want.

Did Mark/Precision Crystal give you any price break for ordering blanks and/or minus the included satin lined gift box?

His prices on the site are already priced as blanks and I didn't ask about not using the boxes but honestly I would grab them just to protect the wedges during shipping.

[Dark_Wizard]

Dark_Wizard (and anyone else with other prisms), could you post some images of test patterns that help indicate the level of astigmatism and chromatic aberration?

Thanks - Chris

Astigmatism is non-existent and I have slight CA on the right side of the screen and just found that I have some epoxy on the rear lens on one side so I have to take out the lens to clean it off and then I'll post pics for you.

[deputydj]

I also purchased and built lens with precision crystal. I am using Benq w10000. Fairly good light control although not a bat cave- very happy with picture:


http://gallery.avsforum.com/showfull.php?photo=29241

[speedtriplex]

Astigmatism is non-existent and I have slight CA on the right side of the screen and just found that I have some epoxy on the rear lens on one side so I have to take out the lens to clean it off and then I'll post pics for you.

Could you please post pics of your lens housing too? :)
Looking forward to more screenies. Thanks.

[spvoyek]

I also purchased and built lens with precision crystal. I am using Benq w10000. Fairly good light control although not a bat cave- very happy with picture:


http://gallery.avsforum.com/showfull.php?photo=29241

Looks great!

Any words of wisdom?

Did you use the 5x7's too?

[Dark_Wizard]

Could you please post pics of your lens housing too? :)
Looking forward to more screenies. Thanks.

Prototype:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/Dark_Wizard_1/PICT0190.jpg

Project after 1 day/testing:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/Dark_Wizard_1/PICT0191.jpg

Completed and hanging after 2 days:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/Dark_Wizard_1/PICT0197.jpg

Bob

[speedtriplex]

Thanks for those pics Bob :-)
Do I see dials that you put in the housing to control aspect ratios? say anywhere from 1.33:1 to 2.40:1? that would be cool and would give you total control. I would love to see more pics of how you put in those dials. Nice work! Thanks again.

EDIT: looking at your HT build thread... amazing! :-)

[Dark_Wizard]

Thanks for those pics Bob :-)
Do I see dials that you put in the housing to control aspect ratios? say anywhere from 1.33:1 to 2.40:1? that would be cool and would give you total control. I would love to see more pics of how you put in those dials. Nice work! Thanks again.

Yes those are thumbwheel knobs and were easier to find locally than I would have thought, unfortunately Loews and HD didn't have them but a large local hardware store did. The knobs give me complete control for moving the lens housing in every direction, the knobs on the lens themselves help with aspect adjustments. I need to take down the lens today to remove the epoxy on the lens and I will take a few more pics of everything so you can see the detail better.

EDIT: looking at your HT build thread... amazing! :-)
Thank you!


Bob

[Dark_Wizard]

I've received numerous requests for a materials list and instructions as well as a couple of people asking if I would build them a lens. I will provide the list and instructions for those interested and as for building a lens I need to work out a price.

I am going to update my lens housing to include a black veneer finish to provide a more professional look so this as well will be added into the price.

One note to those looking for lists and step by step instructions, I am an ex carpenter and hence the reason I only took 2 days to build it, this will vary based on your skills.

Lastly, please allow me ample time to create a materials list and a guide to building your own lens.

Thanks,
Bob

[cray54]

Astigmatism is non-existent and I have slight CA on the right side of the screen and just found that I have some epoxy on the rear lens on one side so I have to take out the lens to clean it off and then I'll post pics for you.

When you have an opportunity, could you post some up-close pictures of a test image (with lines/dots at down to 1px)?

Thanks - Chris

[Dark_Wizard]

When you have an opportunity, could you post some up-close pictures of a test image (with lines/dots at down to 1px)?

Thanks - Chris

I'm planning on that today as I didn't take down the lens yesterday to clean them.

[cray54]

Dark_Wizard,

I apologize, somehow I just now understood that your post indicated you’d be posting pics of the test images (for some reason I thought you were posting pics of the epoxy on the rear lens). No rush / I don’t mean to push.

-Chris

[Dark_Wizard]

Dark_Wizard,

I apologize, somehow I just now understood that your post indicated you’d be posting pics of the test images (for some reason I thought you were posting pics of the epoxy on the rear lens). No rush / I don’t mean to push.

-Chris

I am posting test images and wasn't planning on posting the epoxy on the lens images. I have already taken down the lens and have cleaned them as well.

Bob

[dropzone7]

As someone that has seen Bob's lens firsthand I can tell you that he did a very nice job of it. The lens itself looks great and the resulting image was just awesome on his scope screen. When the time comes for me to return to a digital projector I will certainly be doing a scope screen.

[speedtriplex]

I've received numerous requests for a materials list and instructions as well as a couple of people asking if I would build them a lens. I will provide the list and instructions for those interested and as for building a lens I need to work out a price.

I am going to update my lens housing to include a black veneer finish to provide a more professional look so this as well will be added into the price.

One note to those looking for lists and step by step instructions, I am an ex carpenter and hence the reason I only took 2 days to build it, this will vary based on your skills.

Lastly, please allow me ample time to create a materials list and a guide to building your own lens.

Thanks,
Bob

Bob,

Thank you so much for doing this and I for one will be waiting patiently for it :cool:
I'll be keeping my eyes on this thread plus your dedicated HT build thread, so count me in :)

[spvoyek]

Yeah, I got a notice from him this morning that they were temporarily out of the 4"x6"-ers. Doggonnit.

Hopefully they'll be in within the month, but this'll give me some more time to finish building my new projector mount . . .

Just got off the phone with Mark and he told me probably mid November for the 4x6'ers. They don't take pre-orders, but will update the web page as soon as they get them in.

[applesandrice]

Just got off the phone with Mark and he told me probably mid November for the 4x6'ers. They don't take pre-orders, but will update the web page as soon as they get them in.

Ahh, nuts!! I'd already made my order and got the word a couple days later that they were OOS. I really don't want to wait 'til mid-November, but I think the 5"x7" wedges might actually be too big for my setup.

[spvoyek]

Ya, I was dissappointed myself, especially since an earlier post had quoted him as saying he "expects more in mid to late October". I just looked and that post was by you, actually! Anyways, mid November sounded like a guess. He didn't have a good/hard date and said that they might come sooner. Either way, he would update the web page when he got them, so just keep checking.

He seemed pretty happy about all the interest!

[applesandrice]

Ya, I was dissappointed myself, especially since an earlier post had quoted him as saying he "expects more in mid to late October". I just looked and that post was by you, actually! Anyways, mid November sounded like a guess. He didn't have a good/hard date and said that they might come sooner. Either way, he would update the web page when he got them, so just keep checking.

He seemed pretty happy about all the interest!

Yeah, he'd told me no guarantees, but he was hoping for this month. I'm wondering, though, if my order still stands. I'm assuming I got charged, but I'll have to confirm it, I guess. I really don't want to have to re-order when they arrive and take the chance that they sell out again. If his policy is "no pre-orders", though, I may have to.

[Dark_Wizard]

Ahh, nuts!! I'd already made my order and got the word a couple days later that they were OOS. I really don't want to wait 'til mid-November, but I think the 5"x7" wedges might actually be too big for my setup.

IMO, I would take the 5x7 wedges and run. The extra size isn't that much and may prove useful for adjustments you can't get with the 4x6's.

Lastly, I am rebuilding my lens box (5x7 wedges) and the black vinyl laminate is being delivered today. I have planty of pics during the process to aid anyone wanting to build their own lens. Once complete I will post a pdf detailing the construction process.

Bob

[David Sal]

Just ordered the 5x7s. I need the extra size because my TR is small. Hopefully your plans will be ready soon, I'll be using them for to build my lens. Thanks in advance!!:)

[Lamprey]

Hi,

I just received my 5"x7" crystals from Precision Crystal and was wondering if anyone has tried them in a 4 prism configuration? I was wondering if using 4 would cut down on CA? Also, if using 4 (by putting 2 together to make a "thicker" prism) do you need to bond them or just put them as tightly together as possible.

The two that I have seem to do pretty good. Sure, there is some CA on the sides, but while watching a movie it is nearly impossible to tell.

Anyway, just curious about using 4..

Cheers!

[Dark_Wizard]

Just ordered the 5x7s. I need the extra size because my TR is small. Hopefully your plans will be ready soon, I'll be using them for to build my lens. Thanks in advance!!:)

I'll have my plans done this weekend. Keep in mind that anyone wanting to follow them they need to be aware these are for 5x7 wedges only!

[David Sal]

I'll have my plans done this weekend. Keep in mind that anyone wanting to follow them they need to be aware these are for 5x7 wedges only!

Cool! Just got my 5x7 wedges.:)

[CAVX]

I'll have my plans done this weekend. Keep in mind that anyone wanting to follow them they need to be aware these are for 5x7 wedges only!

Something to consider is that a single plan is useful for one TR only. What I found out was that the exact angles for the prisms will vary from TR to TR, where the longer the TR, the more prism displacment is needed. So in the end, the exact alignment of the prisms in your particular set up will be found by havig a 2.37:1 screen and starting with a perfectly centred 16:9 image...

Mark

[Dark_Wizard]

Something to consider is that a single plan is useful for one TR only. What I found out was that the exact angles for the prisms will vary from TR to TR, where the longer the TR, the more prism displacment is needed. So in the end, the exact alignment of the prisms in your particular set up will be found by havig a 2.37:1 screen and starting with a perfectly centred 16:9 image...

Mark

Agreed. My plans will not provide a specific angle/placement of the wedges, this needs to be done by each person to fit their TR. I am only supplying parts list, lumber dimensions etc.

[jerix]

Dark_wizard your work on the lense is very nice. Based on your story on how you are doin' it, it seems that i can do it too considering availability of materials here in my country. By the way, do you have plans for you curve screen already? it would be good if you can also share that to us.. thanks.

[speedtriplex]

Dark_Wizard,

I hope you haven't changed your mind and are still going to post the plans for the lens build :p really waiting anxiously! :eek:

Thanks

[Dark_Wizard]

Dark_Wizard,

I hope you haven't changed your mind and are still going to post the plans for the lens build :p really waiting anxiously! :eek:

Thanks


I didn't forget but have been busy looking for a job and if I don't find one soon I may be forced to sell my house :(. I followed this (http://www.zuggsoft.com/theater/prism.htm) article so if you want to get started I can guide you from there until I complete my plans.

[speedtriplex]

I didn't forget but have been busy looking for a job and if I don't find one soon I may be forced to sell my house :(. I followed this (http://www.zuggsoft.com/theater/prism.htm) article so if you want to get started I can guide you from there until I complete my plans.


Really sorry to hear that! :( Yeah I've known about this article for quite sometime but wanted a more 1,2,3 kinda How-to on the lens build. Thanks anyways and no rush now. Take your time, and I wish you luck with finding a job soon and hope everything works out for you. Thanks.

[applesandrice]

Looks like the 4" x 6" wedges are back in stock at Precision Crystal. I just finished (re)placing my order . . .

[applesandrice]

My wedges from Precision Crystal just arrived today. Can't wait to try them out this evening . . .

[speedtriplex]

My wedges from Precision Crystal just arrived today. Can't wait to try them out this evening . . .

Keep us posted! :) better still... post some screenshots! :p:cool:

[applesandrice]

Keep us posted! :) better still... post some screenshots! :p:cool:

Will do! I got the lens rigged up in a temporary setting, but it's going to take some more tweaking to get everything just right. I was in a hurry to get the thing up and working, so the stretch isn't quite wide enough. I'm also kind of wishing I'd gone with the 5"x7" wedges after all, though I do think these smaller ones will work. Anyway, I built my screen the other day and even with the temporary setup, I'm really digging the results!

I'll put some pictures up as soon as I can, but our camera is currently out of commission!:(

[akakillroy]

My wedges from Precision Crystal just arrived today. Can't wait to try them out this evening . . .

Who did you talk with there and what exactly did you ask for when you ordered, I am interested in trying this.

[applesandrice]

Who did you talk with there and what exactly did you ask for when you ordered, I am interested in trying this.

I talked (via e-mail) with Mark, and what I ordered were the "small" (4" x 6") crystal wedges. In retrospect, though, I probably should've gone with the larger 5" x 7" wedges. Would've been easier to set up, anyway.

Good luck! So far I'm really pleased with the results.

[phisch]

Will do! I got the lens rigged up in a temporary setting, but it's going to take some more tweaking to get everything just right. I was in a hurry to get the thing up and working, so the stretch isn't quite wide enough. I'm also kind of wishing I'd gone with the 5"x7" wedges after all, though I do think these smaller ones will work. Anyway, I built my screen the other day and even with the temporary setup, I'm really digging the results!

I'll put some pictures up as soon as I can, but our camera is currently out of commission!:(

applesandrice

What projector and throw ratio are you using with your prisms?

[applesandrice]

applesandrice

What projector and throw ratio are you using with your prisms?

I've got a Panasonic PT-AE500u (or L500u -- same thing, I guess). It's set back about 9.5' from the screen (my room is just a skosh larger than 12' x 10') with the zoom dialed all the way out to the smallest size, making my screen size roughly 37" x 88" with the prisms in place.

[BungalowFilms]

I too ordered the 4x6 prisms from Precision Crystal which arrived today. I've taken down my projector to build a DIY mount as the universal commercial mount was too wobbly. Once the new mount is done I'll get to work on the lens housing.

I mocked up the prisms in front of my projector on a temporary stand just to see how they worked out. I've got to admit I'm pretty impressed with the results. For $58 bucks including shipping it's a bargain. But they're not perfect, there are trade offs. There are very faint 'ghost' reflections visible at times on the screen. Most often when there is a very bright object against a dark background. You can especially see it the during credits and some title sequences. CA has not been noticeable on normal projected moving images and I've not yet projected a grid.

I have a fairly long throw ratio and the 4x6 prisms are big enough but only just barely. My projector is a Panasonic PT-AX200U on a curved DIY acoustically transparent screen.

[BungalowFilms]

Okay, that's what I get for not paying attention and reading through all the previous posts! I had not masked off the ends of the prisms yet and that's where the major ghost reflections on the screen were coming from. Masked them off... gone! I'm much happier with the results now.

[speedtriplex]

BungalowFilms,

Could you please comment on picture sharpness while using the prisms? with panny's "smoothscreen" technology, the picture is somewhat soft compared to pj's without it, and now with added prisms, the projected image would be softer than before. A few screenshots with and without the prisms would be helpful. Thanks.

[Magius]

I second the request for images from the prisms with Panny's smoothscreen. I intend to buy an AE3000 for use with a DIY prism lens and DIY screen and it would be great to see how yours turned out. Thanks!

[applesandrice]

Of course I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally have always preferred the "smoothscreen" effect. A little useless trivia here, but I think my 500u was actually even the first model to employ the technology. Anyhow, with the prisms in place, the picture is noticeably more fuzzy, although I still need to correct my angles, mask off the ends of the prisms, and then clean all my fingerprints off!:) Oh, and curve the screen. But I can't do that 'til I've done those others and figured out just how much of a curve it'll need . . .

Even so, I would fully recommend building one of these lenses. I certainly won't be going back.

[BungalowFilms]

BungalowFilms,

Could you please comment on picture sharpness while using the prisms? with panny's "smoothscreen" technology, the picture is somewhat soft compared to pj's without it, and now with added prisms, the projected image would be softer than before. A few screenshots with and without the prisms would be helpful. Thanks.

I have started a new thread for DIY lens builds as this one is titled as 'Prism Sources'. I'll post some screen shots there as soon as I can.

[speedtriplex]

Great idea! :-) I'm checking it out now...