Basically the title sums it up. I have an area of 28 x 20 with a cathedral ceiling. It has come down to these two manufacturers. I know that the Epik has a 1k amp and the eD has a 1300, but I have heard such great reviews about each one. I know that both companies have a crazy-stupid wait time but I am in no big hurry. Whichever brand I decide on I will be going with dual subs. Which would you guys go with and why??

Conquest has a beefier driver though, and a tiny bit more box volume.
It's a lot more expensive however, compared to 450 at $1300 shipped. My guess would be that difference in performance would not be as big as the difference in price.

Those 2 are also on my shortlist for the subs with the best balance between knock your socks off thump and some semblance of sanity (the SVS Ultra is also in the running for me).

Like you, I am not overly concerned with waiting for it, but would certainly like to have it for summer usage. I'm only going for a single box, no room/need for duals

I'm not going to be buying another sub for quite some time (barring mishap, 10+ yrs), I want to make a decision I am very comfortable living with. I hate buyers remorse!!!

All things considered, this is how I see things (pros/cons are ranked in my order of importance):

Epik Conquest
Pros: 1) independent reviews, 2) driver quality
Cons: 1) value/$$, 2) finish, 3) size, 4) amperage, 5) leadtime

vs.

eD A7-450
Pros: 1) value/$$, 2) amperage
Cons: 1) finish, 2) size, 3) leadtime

vs.

SVS PB13-Ultra
Pros: 1) independent reviews, 2) finish, 3) size, 4) leadtime
Cons: 1) value/$, 2) amperage

At the end of it all, I'm leaning towards the eD due to the value it appears to represent.

i think the conquest would have much less of a lead time. web site says they are not back-ordered. i would venture as to say 3 weeks vs. 3 months. to me that would justify the extra cost. i would call epik, not e-mail. just keep calling until they answer.
other than that they would probably be a straight across compairison, except the finish. i have both epik and ed subs. the finish on the ed subs are just awful, and i am one who normally wouldnt care.

Add the parametric EQ to the pros on ultra..Otherwise you seem to have nailed it..
See people like OP and you could really benefit from a detailed review/comparison by Ribbit who has both the 450 and ultra. But he seems to not care enough about his fellow forum members.

Add the parametric EQ to the pros on ultra..Otherwise you seem to have nailed it..
See people like OP and you could really benefit from a detailed review/comparison by Ribbit who has both the 450 and ultra. But he seems to not care enough about his fellow forum members.

You know what? STFU! :mad:

What's your problem mofomike?

What's your problem mofomike?

...Ribbit who has both the 450 and ultra. But he seems to not care enough about his fellow forum members.

This is my problem: Why do you feel the need to disparage another forum member who happens to be a good guy? Simply because in a couple of days that he has had all those subs, he hasn't been able to satisfy your needs and wants, you accuse him of not caring about his fellow forum members? I've got news for you: In one post with all those cool pictures, he has provided more interesting info for the rest of us than all of the useless paroting crap you have posted over the last 3 months. Do you ever stop to think of why so many folks here get pissed off at so many of your useless posts? Please pause to think before you post.

There. I've vented. I feel better now and I apologize for the sidetrack. Back to the subject of subs...

and the eD has a 1300, but I have heard such great reviews about each one.
I've always wondered how they took a 1000w amp and made it produce 1300w. Maybe it's a different way of measuring? They never do say how much THD their 1000w amp puts out at 1300w.

You know what? STFU! :mad:
Uhh??:confused:
http://www.janethull.com/shop/images/Lithium.jpg

Uhh??:confused:
http://www.janethull.com/shop/images/Lithium.jpg


LOL. I hate perscription drugs! :cool:

OK -- Now I'd really like to hear some discussion on this issue. I am unaware that the eD amp is a 1000w unit, as it shows up just about everywhere as 1300w.

Can you point me to any threads on this?

Going through your posts mojomike, I see only the same kind of "useless paroting crap" I post.
People get pissed off at my posts because they own subs of certain brands. They can get pissed off all they want.
I didn't intend to disparage ribbit, just performing a light hearted whining trying to get him to do it if he reads it. Then I could start "paroting" his opinion to the fresh newcomers asking for advice.

OK -- Now I'd really like to hear some discussion on this issue. I am unaware that the eD amp is a 1000w unit, as it shows up just about everywhere as 1300w.

Can you point me to any threads on this?
This is from Epik's website:

http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/ConquestOverview.html

"Every other aspect of the driver was improved to handle the strength of the motor and the large and powerful 18 inch cone. The finished design is both outrageously efficient and very reliable. With nearly 3000 watts worth of power handling thanks to its cooling system, even the power from its 1000 watt amplifier is handled with ease."

The Elemental Design's amp is 1300 watts.

I am not totally hooked on aesthetics but the wife has to look at them too and having two "ugly" subs wouldn't be that good. It would be a different story if they were tucked away somewhere like an unwanted step-child, but these are going to be front and center below the screen. It may have to be Epik afterall. I just wanted a little extra power and if I felt the need to blow the fur off any of my cats I would have it. I guess that if two isn't enough, there is always room for four.:)

Going through your posts mojomike, I see only the same kind of "useless paroting crap" I post.
People get pissed off at my posts because they own subs of certain brands. They can get pissed off all they want.
I didn't intend to disparage ribbit, just performing a light hearted whining trying to get him to do it if he reads it. Then I could start "paroting" his opinion to the fresh newcomers asking for advice.

Are you sure that's the only reason they get pissed off? Have you ever considered that it might be that you dispense advice without any first-hand experience about the subs you are talking about and often without any verifiable facts to back up what you say? Just consider that as a possiblity.

My reaction to your comment about ribbit was most likely an overreaction, but your comment just didn't seem that light-hearted at the time.

Peace, CADOBHuK. Let's move on. :)

Just curious. I went back to the Epik website and looked at the sub box specs and the size is 36" in height and 22" in width. What would it hurt to turn the sub on it's side to accommodate a larger screen? 22'' tall would be better than the normal 36".

Just curious. I went back to the Epik website and looked at the sub box specs and the size is 36" in height and 22" in width. What would it hurt to turn the sub on it's side to accommodate a larger screen? 22'' tall would be better than the normal 36".

shouldnt make any difference.

Wouldn't hurt anything, conquest has been designed to be lying on it's side - according to Chad - and sounds better that way, according to Craigsub.

Just curious. I went back to the Epik website and looked at the sub box specs and the size is 36" in height and 22" in width. What would it hurt to turn the sub on it's side to accommodate a larger screen? 22'' tall would be better than the normal 36".

I know quite a few people have already done that with Conquests.

People flip A7-900's upright and make them fire forward/up instead of down/sideways.

I've always wondered how they took a 1000w amp and made it produce 1300w. Maybe it's a different way of measuring? They never do say how much THD their 1000w amp puts out at 1300w.


I've read the Epik and eD specs/web-pages more times than I care to admit ....

Unless I've totally lost it, the Epik has 1000w and the eD has 1300w.

What is confusing me is the quoted text above??

we know the conquest has been reviewed at least 3 times. only a handful have ever even seen or heard the ed sub. the epik puts out some serious spl. dont think you would have to worry about those 300 wts.
these are both big subs. with the ed it would be a whole lot of ugly. even in a dark room you can see it. didnt really notice until i stacked my a2-300s on top of each other. its almost embarrasing to show someone. no joke!

i think the conquest would have much less of a lead time. web site says they are not back-ordered.

I spoke to the owner at epik yesterday and the conquest is in stock and ready to ship. I was looking for a alternative to my ed a-350 but this one was out of my price range. keep in mind that the wait on a ED sub will be 10+ weeks not the 6-8 they say on their site.

I spoke to the owner at epik yesterday and the conquest is in stock and ready to ship. I was looking for a alternative to my ed a-350 but this one was out of my price range. keep in mind that the wait on a ED sub will be 10+ weeks not the 6-8 they say on their site.

wow, then that would be a no brainer for me.
if ed says 6-8 wks. i would expect quite a bit longer. i have played with them 3 times so i know.

wow, then that would be a no brainer for me.
if ed says 6-8 wks. i would expect quite a bit longer. i have played with them 3 times so i know.

I really wanted to buy the conquest because i am sick of waiting for my ed A-350. I have a child on the way and i know my wife would put me and the theater out of the house if i spent 1500 dollars on this sub right now:). if it were in my price range between the conquest and the ed a-450 i would choose the conquest because the ED wait is very painfull.

I spoke to the owner at epik yesterday and the conquest is in stock and ready to ship. I was looking for a alternative to my ed a-350 but this one was out of my price range. keep in mind that the wait on a ED sub will be 10+ weeks not the 6-8 they say on their site.

That's actually not accurate. The original 6~8 weeks has gone over due to an underestimation of the # of orders that would happen in the last week of the year, combined with people leaving and us needing to redo how things work around here.

After we're caught up to 12/31, order speed will get insanely shorter due to the fact that there were more than a months worth of orders in the last 2 days of the year.

After we're caught up to 12/31, order speed will get insanely shorter due to the fact that there were more than a months worth of orders in the last 2 days of the year.Chris, next time don't annouce a price hike...just do it ;).

1) I do not think the eD finish is ugly. I prefer it over corny wood veneer or paint that will chip. I've learned over time that a finish can quickly go out of style or turn on you when you move or redesign a room.

2) The OP wrote "...but I am in no big hurry." So, why is wait time getting thrown around here? The OP knows there will be a wait time and doesn't seem to care.

A lot of money (IMHO) is being spent here - I would never boil the purchase down to finish or wait time. Sure sooner is better, but in six months will an eight week wait make a difference? How about in two years?

All three subs are highly rated around the forum, so I'm sure any one will be great. If it were me, I'd focus on performance criteria first.

Basically the title sums it up. I have an area of 28 x 20 with a cathedral ceiling. It has come down to these two manufacturers. I know that the Epik has a 1k amp and the eD has a 1300, but I have heard such great reviews about each one. I know that both companies have a crazy-stupid wait time but I am in no big hurry. Whichever brand I decide on I will be going with dual subs. Which would you guys go with and why??

epik conquest $1600 + shipping 1000watts
eD A7-450 $1300 shipped 1300watts

looks like a no brainer to me
don't know why anyone would pay $300 more +shipping for the conquest

.... A lot of money (IMHO) is being spent here - I would never boil the purchase down to finish or wait time .... If it were me, I'd focus on performance criteria first.

Amen to that.

Just to be clear -- I brought up finish and leadtime, not the OP.

I just want to hit the sweet spot between performance and value. The rest is just icing on the cake.

If I had to rank my preference criteria: independent reviews (aka: real world performance) and value per $$$ are so far out ahead of the other issues that the others *almost* don't matter.

In a perfect world, I'd have the Epik 18" Driver with the ED 1300w amp in an appropriately sized and ported box with a piano gloss finish --- all at (or under) the ED price of $1,300!!!

Wow, now I sound like I should be in the DIY forum .....

thanks mojomike.

cadobhuk, how about this ... the reason i can afford XYZ subs is because I work my ass off. if I didn't work my ass off, I'd have time to test stuff, but wouldn't have the money to buy stuff.

thanks mojomike.

cadobhuk, how about this ... the reason i can afford XYZ subs is because I work my ass off. if I didn't work my ass off, I'd have time to test stuff, but wouldn't have the money to buy stuff.

+1 Work on :)

Amen to that.

Just to be clear -- I brought up finish and leadtime, not the OP.

I just want to hit the sweet spot between performance and value. The rest is just icing on the cake.

If I had to rank my preference criteria: independent reviews (aka: real world performance) and value per $$$ are so far out ahead of the other issues that the others *almost* don't matter.

In a perfect world, I'd have the Epik 18" Driver with the ED 1300w amp in an appropriately sized and ported box with a piano gloss finish --- all at (or under) the ED price of $1,300!!!

Wow, now I sound like I should be in the DIY forum .....

300 watts dont make that big a difference. The amp used in conquest could actually be of better quality for all we know.

See people like OP and you could really benefit from a detailed review/comparison by Ribbit who has both the 450 and ultra. But he seems to not care enough about his fellow forum members.

a 'detailed review and comparison' that I can wrap up in a few days?
riiiiight. excuse me if i have a life.

here it is: the eD A7-450 is the greatest subwoofer on the planet.*

ok with you?

*because I have not heard the SVS ultras yet, the above may not be accurate at all

this is exactly why i said it was a thankless job. i did not buy MY subs so I can be obligated to satisfy anybody but ME. i dont get paid to do this.

Just pulled the trigger on dual conquests.

The finish actually does mean something to me when you have to look at at it day-in and day out. I leaned towards the wood veneer but in the end decided on the black finish since it would go with any decor. I don't mind paying a few bucks more to get what I want. If you think about it, the lifespan of a sub is a fairly long one (depending on how you take care of it, of course) and should last me 10 to 12 years. My Velodyne is still rocking after 11 and it looks/sounds just like I bought it yesterday. A couple of hundred bucks difference over a few years isn't much.

As far as which speaker is better is anyone's opinion, but here in a few weeks (can't say right now) Chad at Epik told me that there will be something that will define how good these subs really are. Epik has a kick-ass product that delivers for a reasonable price...period. Elemental Designs and a handful of other companies are all in it to make a superior product competitively priced. With all of these companies striving for perfection, it is hard to choose. That is where customer service comes into play. We will see how that part goes in the next few weeks. As far as a I am concerned, I made the right decision.

By the way, Epik doesn't have any in stock so to speak, but in the next week they should be ready to ship.

Just pulled the trigger on dual conquests. I hate you.

... I would have read the rest of your post, but I just died from a massive grabber after reading the first line.


Tim

I hate you.

... I would have read the rest of your post, but I just died from a massive grabber after reading the first line.


Tim

hahaha. i'm actually quite jealous as well.

I tried to buy a Conquest back when I had some money. ;)

2-3 emails inquiring about 220v went unanswered, I tried to ask for a passive version on my 4th email but Dale said he was not ready to sell to international customers.

a 'detailed review and comparison' that I can wrap up in a few days?
riiiiight. excuse me if i have a life.

here it is: the eD A7-450 is the greatest subwoofer on the planet.*

ok with you?

*because I have not heard the SVS ultras yet, the above may not be accurate at all

this is exactly why i said it was a thankless job. i did not buy MY subs so I can be obligated satisfy to anybody but ME. i dont get paid to do this.

hey mike c take a chill pill

hey mike c take a chill pill

I don't get the sense of entitlement people have. In the rare even people don't feel entitled to personally own or possess whatever it is they want (obviously most people do feel entitled to have everything they want - look at the horrendous consumer debt in America :rolleyes:), they expect to have others do exactly as they want, or else! Maybe I'm missing something, but Mike C. spent his own money to purchase the subs he just received a few days ago. He waited for a long time to have them arrive. And now, he gets to enjoy them as he sees fit. If that involves direct comparisons between the subs, great! It would be really awesome to know first-hand comparisons between a couple of the best subs out there. On the other hand, if Mike has other things to do in his life (work, family obligations), or just doesn't feel like writing up a 20 page review, that's his choice as well. I personally find it exciting to just see his pictures and read his impressions. Since I can't afford (or fit) two PB13 Ultras or two A7-450's in my room, I enjoy everything he says and does to describe them. Still, he's in no way obligated to do anything the spoiled children on the forums demand of him. I for one appreciate your thoughts Mike. Keep 'em coming as long as you want - I'll be reading them :).

hahaha. i'm actually quite jealous as well.



2-3 emails inquiring about 220v l customers.

Might have to run a separate 100 amp service for them.::eek::D

epik conquest $1600 + shipping 1000watts
eD A7-450 $1300 shipped 1300watts

looks like a no brainer to me
don't know why anyone would pay $300 more +shipping for the conquest
If only it was that simple. All things being equal. 1000w vs. 1300w (assuming the amp actually puts out that amount of power cleanly)
equates to about 1db. Yeah 1 db. Factoring in power compression at those power level's, you're looking at ~0.5db

I've read the Epik and eD specs/web-pages more times than I care to admit ....

Unless I've totally lost it, the Epik has 1000w and the eD has 1300w.

What is confusing me is the quoted text above??
It's an amp made by Keiga (as they mention on their site). Madisound, which sells the same amp, but at a higher price, has it spec'd at 1000w. Keiga, which produces the amp, specs it at 1000w
http://www.keiga.com.tw/product-2.html
Power output @ 10% THD, 4 ohms 1200W

@ 0.1% THD, 4 ohms 1000W

thanks mojomike.

cadobhuk, how about this ... the reason i can afford XYZ subs is because I work my ass off. if I didn't work my ass off, I'd have time to test stuff, but wouldn't have the money to buy stuff.
Work for peso? Buy USA subs $1 =40? Man you mustn't have any ass left after buying 4 subs:eek::eek::)

Work for peso? Buy USA subs $1 =40? Man you mustn't have any ass left after buying 4 subs:eek::eek::)

actually, the killer thing are the shipping costs. let's just say for every 2 subwoofers, I could have gotten a 3rd sub. :)

ribbit, I never meant to say (seriously) that you're obliged to write a review. Sorry if it came off that way. I guess I got a bit overly curious about the subs Craigsub hasn't tested.

I'm as guilty as anyone for wanting a comparison or at least a review of the eD subs...I even prodded Mike. I have to say, however, that I understand completely anyone's reluctance to post definitive or even subjective opinions. For one thing, both eD and Epik(and in this case SVS) deserve nothing but praise for their products. If you've stepped up to the plate to purchase from any company and are happy with the the product and experience, what's gained personally by stating a preference? Comparisons with capable subs are like ice cream flavors...which flavor do you like?

I'm as guilty as anyone for wanting a comparison or at least a review of the eD subs...I even prodded Mike. I have to say, however, that I understand completely anyone's reluctance to post definitive or even subjective opinions. For one thing, both eD and Epik(and in this case SVS) deserve nothing but praise for their products. If you've stepped up to the plate to purchase from any company and are happy with the the product and experience, what's gained personally by stating a preference? Comparisons with capable subs are like ice cream flavors...which flavor do you like?

Don't worry Ron T, you didn't pressure me into anything, I'm just sorry I can't help you with music comparisons. maybe I'll get a better feel of the differences with HT usage. even Ron S of SVS advised me to compare his Ultras to ANY subwoofer I bought because I initially had placed an order of 4 units. but seeing the delay, I had asked Chris to design me "ultra killers" in terms of output ... (bigger ports, bigger driver, bigger amp, bigger enclosure) just big.

ribbit, to have that kind of woofage, i wonder what you have for your mains?

Infinity BETA 50's powered by bridged Behringer A500's for 360w each

but I must say that it's the first time I've seen all the yellow clip lights light up on the Behringers :)

$300 mains vs $ubs? Imagine if you get equal mains.

what the hell does price have to do with it, $300 can get you some nice sounding speakers

I've heard $250 bookshelves that sounded better than $900 bookshelves and even some $1500 towers for music

$300 mains vs $ubs? Imagine if you get equal mains.

300USD? I know its cheaper over there, but surely it has to be around the 1k I paid for the pair.

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=BETA50BK&cat=BFS&ser=BET&Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US

i bought these during the time I did not know I could haggle down the prices, and that there were plenty of other options in terms of brand. but in terms of output or my usage of pure HT, I couldn't have bought better ... 3 way with dual 8" woofers

300USD? I know its cheaper over there, but surely it has to be around the 1k I paid for the pair.

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=BETA50BK&cat=BFS&ser=BET&Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US

i bought these during the time I did not know I could haggle down the prices, and that there were plenty of other options in terms of brand. but in terms of output or my usage of pure HT, I couldn't have bought better ... 3 way with dual 8" woofers

I'm saying equal to the subs in price. They may sound nice. But here they are alot less.

I'm saying equal to the subs in price. They may sound nice. But here they are alot less.

i've tried bookshelves that were more expensive than my entire BETA 7.0 setup that I could barely hear the difference on music ... if I can barely hear it on music, I won't hear it on HT use.

what the hell does price have to do with it, $300 can get you some nice sounding speakers

I've heard $250 bookshelves that sounded better than $900 bookshelves and even some $1500 towers for music
I said speaker that equal the subs. There are subs 1k that don't sound better than $600. But to get good mains equal quality is going to cost. IMO 5k + worth of subs demand better mains. OP paid 1k maybe there aren't as many options as USA?? I was just seeing a $300 price tag. And we all know what speakers are good and bad so I'm not comparing good $300 to crap $1500 speaker. All being equal price does has something to do with it.:rolleyes:

i've tried bookshelves that were more expensive than my entire BETA 7.0 setup that I could barely hear the difference on music ... if I can barely hear it on music, I won't hear it on HT use.
I'm sure that the full range speaker are better. I was just thinking Rockets or Swans or better. But they probably would cost to much. One speaker for you probably would equal 3 for me in cost = shipping?? . I'm sure the Beta are fine.

as long as you are happy with your speakers,ribbit, who cares. you have woofage that as mere mortals could only dream about.
sorry i asked about your speakers, i didnt know you would have to defend yourself.

as long as you are happy with your speakers,ribbit, who cares. you have woofage that as mere mortals could only dream about.
sorry i asked about your speakers, i didnt know you would have to defend yourself.

it's no problem. i really don't hear a difference, I once upon a time tried thinking about upgrade options but couldn't think of anything worthwhile to upgrade to in my HT. my bedroom audio setup is entirely different matter though.

it's no problem. i really don't hear a difference, I once upon a time tried thinking about upgrade options but couldn't think of anything worthwhile to upgrade to in my HT. my bedroom audio setup is entirely different matter though.
What's in the bedroom setup?

What's in the bedroom setup?

well now my DD18 is there ... my current bookshelf is a KEF Q1 ... I'm pretty sure i'm going to upgrade to a Monitor Audio pair, I've demoed the BR2, RS1, and GS10 and none of those gave me a big enough "upgrade" to warrant a purchase. so what I'm gonna do is, I'm gonna maybe order a pair of PL100's blind.

I ordered 5 of these (http://www.selahaudio.com/id124.html) in kit form 2 days ago. The kits are a great way to get the most for your money, especially if you order overseas and someone nearby can build the cabinets. Since the parts without cabinets are way easier to ship than assembled speakers.