Is more people better?

More is better.

I'm an egalitarian at heart. I would like people every where to have great picture quality.

The question in my mind is this: Do you see projectors as a true mass market hobby or is it just for the snobs?

Either view is a valid one, I just would like to see a growing, vibrant hobby. This will lead to more innovation, better picture quality and lower prices for all.

How can you disagree?

More is better.

I'm an egalitarian at heart. I would like people every where to have great picture quality.

The question in my mind is this: Do you see projectors as a true mass market hobby or is it just for the snobs?

Either view is a valid one, I just would like to see a growing, vibrant hobby. This will lead to more innovation, better picture quality and lower prices for all.

How can you disagree?
Agree!
More people getting into fp and discuss matters in open forum would influence the way these devices are designed, built and marketed.

I say more is better aswell. For example, if I am inquiring about a certain projector or piece of equipment, I'd like to get as many reviews from users as possible to make the best possible judgement.

If AVS were to limit members how would it discriminate or would we need to pass a test?

I'd be interested in how many members there were eight years ago when I joined. I do think it makes no sense to limit membership and I wouldn't want to anyway. The power of this place is diverse experience.

Art

More is better...

The question in my mind is this: Do you see projectors as a true mass market hobby or is it just for the snobs?

Either view is a valid one, I just would like to see a growing, vibrant hobby. This will lead to more innovation, better picture quality and lower prices for all.

How can you disagree?

Agree!
More people getting into fp and discuss matters in open forum would influence the way these devices are designed, built and marketed.

I just recently received my first pj from AVS, and this is my first post in this sub-forum. Among my friends, I am easily "the AV guy". I'll tell you what, a great many of my friends, including unknowledgable non-videophiles or those without money, happen to be very interested in FP (whether they've seen mine or not). Anywhere from $500 budgets to multi-thousand. It's a growing trend without a doubt, IMO.

If I am not mistaken, I have read that some believe AVSers helped the resolution of LFE issues with the Pana BD-30 player. We do make a difference? :D

p.s. Tryg, thanks so much for your screen reviews. They were enlightening. Even if not everyone may agree with any/all opinions, it still shed light on opinions that needed to be personally made. :)

I voted "more is better". I am also a poster on "another unnamed forum". and there is no where near the traffic as here. it takes forever to get questions answered. the more people you have, the better chance of finding someone who knows what they're talking about. Right?

The more the better, otherwise you'll just end up with the Ultra-high end forum which for the most part can't manage to get a few pages into a thread before it spirals into a huge fracas.

Relative. I think more is better in general, but a lot of low activity people flitting in and out can bring the signal to noise ratio down too. I think this subforum in particular has a very very good mix.

I voted for more. I've been here a long time. The quality of discussions used to be more consistantly positive with fewer members, but I still think it's better with more. Just need to ignore the people that have poor attitudes. I think you'll find this to be true in most walks of life.
Tryg, is a certain amount of this "negativity" the reason for the poll or people asking the same ???'s over and over.

Scott

Well, I think it begs the question regarding the thread since the title and the poll are different. Do you feel that more has reduced the quality or improved it ?

Art

I like trying to help others out too...just don't want the forum to lose the technical topics/comparisons that are constantly done.

Well, I think it begs the question regarding the thread since the title and the poll are different. Do you feel that more has reduced the quality or improved it ?

Art

It is possible today to have a home theater experience that is easily much, much better than it was in the days of the dinosaur when CRTs ruled the Earth.


This is because source material is generally so much better. Bluray>HD Cable>DVD>LaserDisk>VHS>Broadcast TV.

A cheap sub $1k projector hooked up to a PS3 will blow the best CRT playing a VHS tape out of the water.

Digitals and high quality sources have really changed things.

Back then, you needed a lot of skill to get CRTs working right and properly converged. Today it is plug and play. We expect projectors to come well calibrated out of the box.

So, a lot of the skill and technical ability has been removed from these forums because it has become obsolete. Some will say that this means that the quality is less than it used to be.

I really think that the "dumbing down" of home theater is a great thing because it allows many more people easy entry.

I think that one of the reasons that the RS1 is so popular yet controvertial is that it throws a great picture but you can't really tinker with it. Spend hours trying to improve it but you will still have pretty much as good an image as the factory gave you. This drives some of the old timers a little nuts.

Yes. Something has been lost. Some will mourn it. I see what they mean. For me, i like where things are and where they are going.

The future means more people enjoying much better home theater experiences for much less money. I think this is a great thing.

Read my first post. I agree, power in much much more diverse experience.:)

Art

Read my first post. I agree, power in much much more diverse experience.:)

Art

I know. I read your earlier post.

You have been around here a long time and have been through it all. I can't point to anything more shocking as when you decided to go digital.

I have never owned a CRT but I love to read posts in the CRT forum because they capture, I think, the way it used to be in these forums and the challenges that were faced (only it is more difficult now that some parts are getting scarce).

Back then, you needed a lot of skill to get CRTs working right and properly converged. Today it is plug and play. We expect projectors to come well calibrated out of the box.



As an owner of both CRT and a DLP those statements are inaccurate and serve no purpose and it is OT. No digtal comes well calibrated out of box and need regular grayscale set up with mounting hours if one wants it accurate. Most even don't do color and black right no matter what. And back then you hired someone to install and set up CRT for you.

As an owner of both CRT and a DLP those statements are inaccurate and serve no purpose and it is OT. No digtal comes well calibrated out of box and need regular grayscale set up with mounting hours if one wants it accurate. Most even don't do color and black right no matter what. And back then you hired someone to install and set up CRT for you.

:D

Well we tried to stay on topic.

I think there should be a test administered prior to allowing anyone access to this particular part of the forum:

1. Do you think that the RS-1/RS-2 are the greatest projectors made to date?
2. Do you find oversaturated colors acceptable?
3. Do you hate single chip DLP?

If you answered "yes" to all 3 of the questions, then welcome to the Tryg projector forum! (just kidding, of course :) )

Hell hath no rath like a woman scorned.

Just kidding, of course.:D

I would say more people adds to better quality for a number of reasons:

There's more people to help out with questions. Even if several people help and end up offering different possible solutions, this is better than the "crickets chirping" response you get in most other forums.

Many manufacturers do listen to our complaints/suggestions, and part of this is due to the number of people who speak up.

It makes the forum more interesting. I really like seeing what people have done with their theaters, but it wouldn't be as interesting if it were always the same few people posting their pics.

Manufacturer reps (Dan Miller et al) take the time to visit the forum and answer our questions. If we only had a few members, this may not be worth their time.

And the constant flow of new blood keeps us from becoming stagnant, and I think also helps keep the forum more friendly. I've been to other (non-AV related) forums where asking newbie questions is almost not tolerated. It's like a secret club where everyone already knows each other. And they make no bones about how dumb your questions are. I'm glad we're not like that.

As far as the original topic, of course it depends on whether they are good members or bad members. Bad apples don't make things better. :) I can think of one or more people on another subforum here (related to a recent format war) who I think made the place worse with their deceptions, but I don't this particular subforum really has that.

Basically, as long as people are reasonable and not deceiving others here (especially for their own gain), I think more people posting is a good thing.

--Darin

I really think that the "dumbing down" of home theater is a great thing because it allows many more people easy entry.

I heartily agree. If it had not been 'dumbed down', I'm sure I would not be here.

My son-in-law thinks I must be a HT guru because of my large # of posts. I tell him it's because my 'embarrassment threshold' is high, not being afraid to ask stupid questions.

I tell him it's because my 'embarrassment threshold is high, not being afraid to ask stupid questions.

One Smart Man!!!!!!!

Maybe we should ponder what Yogi Berra said about a restaurant that became too popular:

"Nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded."

I think it's obvious, the mo' the better, the amount of learning and sharing can be phenomenal.
The HT building forum is exceptional and very supportive as are many others.
Also obvious, as Darin noted, the HD forums.
So much smack-down and to be blunt, so much stupidity.

I think we should limit it to the 10000 highest bidders. I'll send my address for cash bids. :D

it's the internet. let there be more. just ignore those that you have issues with. later.

More, more, more...

From a marketing perspective, the more members there are should mean that much more sales revenue for AVScience. Not that all members purchase equipment from AVScience, but, the more people that are exposed to them the more people that will potentially be a customer. It's a numbers game in sales.

From a member's perspective I like to hear as many opinions as I can on a particular product or topic to help increase my knowledge.

The more the better I say :)

If not for AVS's open members forums and all of the invaluable advice we have received throughout the long home theater building process, I would not have ever had the courage or know how necessary to build our 1080p VPL-VW60 100" Stewart SST, Berkline 4503 power reclining Def Tech Home theater.

Thanks to AVS we are happy campers.

Is more people better?

I believe the forum would better without me.
But I cant do that for you all.
I am addicted.

I voted yes for all the reasons above more people equal more opinions and different ways of thinking about an install or a different component for your setup. The more ideas you have the more you learn in general about different applications. That is what I really enjoy the hunt for the perfect component :).

Hi Mr Mouse!

What's new in your theater? Finally picked a name for it yet? How about light dampening material? It really helps, even with the FH-SST when you add black-out drapes. With drapes you could always pull them back when you don't need them


In answer to your question; It has been christened the "STEALTH Theater" in honor of our pristine 7 time best of show wining 1993 Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo that got destroyed in a devastating hail storm. We used the insurance money to fund home repairs and to fund our home theater. It is also called the STEALTH Theater because when not in use, the screen retracts as do the room darkening BALI shades. Out of sight, out of mind.

As for "whats new"? Our VPL-VW50 continued giving us problems and we ended up replacing it with a Black Pearl VPL-VW60... HUGE improvement in picture and the Pearl's picture was very good. We also are awaiting the arrival of 3 Berkline 4503 power reclining theater seats. They will arrive this week... Maybe, buttkickers down the line but we will see.

Now that the format wars have ended, eventually we will buy a Blu Ray player, maybe a PS3 or a dedicated Bluray player.
That is about it for now but again, all that we learned about front pj home theater we received from AVS and it's members.

I voted no, but not because I would like to see limits. I voted no because I thing numbers have less to do with quality than having moderators that provide leadership and vision in the kinds of discussion and debate that we have. When there are too many posts and too little guidance we get ridiculous threads and reactionary responses. Overall, diversity and more members is a good thing, but a little more steering of the tone of discourse could be useful. Unfortunately, that is just not likely to be able to happen in a beast of a forum like AVS.

Maybe it is time to institute a membership fee, something ridiculously small like $10 a year...let's see that lead balloon go anywhere! :)

Definitely, the more the merrier! I love the fact that I can ask a question, be it technical or very straight forward and get several replies within minutes of posing a question. More often than not, the replies are usually quality replies.

I'm currently sitting outside of a Starbucks in Malaysia using their free wifi and find along with caffeine I need a daily AVS fix.

As far as charging a nominal membership fee, I suspect it would be a turn-off for most newbies coming here. While I find AVS an invaluable resource, it wasn't until my umpteenth visit that I realized how addictive this place can be.

I really think that the "dumbing down" of home theater is a great thing because it allows many more people easy entry.



Yes. Something has been lost. Some will mourn it. I see what they mean. For me, i like where things are and where they are going.

The future means more people enjoying much better home theater experiences for much less money. I think this is a great thing.

I think that it's great that more people can enjoy HT in their homes. More people means economy of scale, and lower prices. We've certainly seen that recently.

I don't think that the shift in the forum has anything to do with more forum members joining though and instead everything to do with the plug and play simplicity of home theater nowadays. Yes, something has been lost.

I'm not a CRT owner, but I can appreciate the knowledge, dedication and desire that drove them to extract every last ounce of performance out of their machines in order to achieve something unique that most people had never seen before. That same spirit existed here on the digital forum too but the nature has changed now to the bland.

This really begs the question, why bother to read this forum anymore? I have a DLP HD RPTV and a LCD HD panel TV that are plug and play but I never bother reading those forums (except maybe when I'm going to buy something). I see that sort of thing happening here. What is left to talk about except endless arguments of technology A vs technology B or projector X vs projector Y.

This forum has changed from a collection of people being doers and exchanging valuable tips to something resembling the audience at a Star Trek convention:

AVS Poster#1 - "So reviewer ---- when you reviewed projector X, I noticed that you used the passive voice in most of your article, does this mean that you liked it less than projector Y?".

AVS Poster#2 - "So reviewer ---- in your article you said that you evaluated the color using Chapter 12 of movie X. Why not use Chapter 4 of movie Y instead. The grass scene is a better test of green hues and the red hues on the flowers are luscious".

AVS Poster#3 - "I don't have time to read articles and I don't really know what most of that stuff means anyway, just somebody please tell me what to buy".

Definitly think its better- otherwise I wouldn't be able to make this post:cool:

As far as the original topic, of course it depends on whether they are good members or bad members. Bad apples don't make things better. :) I can think of one or more people on another subforum here (related to a recent format war) who I think made the place worse with their deceptions, but I don't this particular subforum really has that.

Basically, as long as people are reasonable and not deceiving others here (especially for their own gain), I think more people posting is a good thing.

--Darin

Anyone in (tbrunet) particular that (Icon Master) you have in (Dave) mind?:D

Relative. I think more is better in general, but a lot of low activity people flitting in and out can bring the signal to noise ratio down too. I think this subforum in particular has a very very good mix.

Well, I think it begs the question regarding the thread since the title and the poll are different. Do you feel that more has reduced the quality or improved it ?

Art

I am not sure that more people has reduced or raised the quality. It has probably maintained the same status. I know it is probably to much to ask, but I would like to see a basic knowledge of audio/video as a prerequisite before posting.

This really begs the question, why bother to read this forum anymore?

I see your point.

We are all chasing our own version of home theater perfection. For the most part, our wives and families, while they may enjoy movie watching, don't care about it in the same way that we do. I think that we are all happy for each other when we get something new and can all appreciate some of the things about out set-ups that we don't like.

Reio-ta:

You talk about a double edged sword?

A previous thread was started by a relative newcomer:

" 1080p, accurate primaries / decoding, 2500 lumens, $6K, does it exist?

This was your response to an innocent question ( and from a church group for that matter )

" So it takes 2500 lumens for gods work, huh? :rolleyes: I think the kids need to learn " we didn't get a 1080p PJ and only this donated lowly 27" SDTV using 'S' video but the $6K went to research into curing the ills of humankind."!


Maybe there should not be new members if this is the kind of greeting they get. You are here to help people and NOT be sarcastic which is obvious by the reply.

What were you thinking when you made the statement?

I see your point.

We are all chasing our own version of home theater perfection. For the most part, our wives and families, while they may enjoy movie watching, don't care about it in the same way that we do. I think that we are all happy for each other when we get something new and can all appreciate some of the things about out set-ups that we don't like.

So maybe we should change the forum title to "Digital Hi-End Projectors - Group Hug" :D

Seriously though, I think that you're right that many of the posts now are about members being happy after plugging in projector X. Don't get me wrong, I like those posts and especially the enthusiasm that goes along with it. But I just wish there were more of the tech/tweak posts that there used to be. I've learned a tremendous amount from this forum over the years about video and display technology and I hope to see it continue.

While I find AVS an invaluable resource, it wasn't until my umpteenth visit that I realized how addictive this place can be.

What the hell do you mean ? I don't see it.;):D

Art

While I truly feel sorry for you, that does not excuse your reprehensible conduct on these boards.

My sympathies but so much anger and hostilities.:confused:

I've learned a tremendous amount from this forum over the years about video and display technology and I hope to see it continue.


That stuff is still here. Look at the RS1 Improvement Project thread. Granted, things like that are pretty rare.

I think that what you are suggesting is that manufacturers ship projectors that are flawed, but fixable. Do we really want that?

You also have to account for the learning curve. People like you have been around the block. There's not much left to learn. Those who know it all get bored. That's the way it is.

I have been in this business for nearly 30 years and I could argue that I know more than most. I continue to find lots of useful information here, as well as on other forums and am rarely bored. What bores me is sifting through the vitriole and childishness that some threads seem to generate, but it is still well worth my time.

I'm a newbie to the home theatre portion, just learning so much, do you realize there are:
-13 grouped areas of interest
-80 forums under those 13 areas

TMI at times. Overload.

Do you guys who have "lived here" for months/years and know the history and "why things work the way they do" know how intimidating that is for a newbie to absorb?

Please, don't get down on us newbies, after all everyone one of you was a newbie at one time or another.
I don't think any of the posts here were rants against newbies either, which is a good thing.

I also think it's good, no great, to show enthuasim for a product. That's why when I got my first ever PJ, the Sony VPL-VW60, I posted my "wow's" thread. I'm sure some of the "old timers" were grimacing, hopefully others found it fresh for someone to "have the experience" and "get bitten by the HT bug".

I have to give "kudos" to all the various sticky/summary threads and the various reviews by many people. Info from various viewpoints becomes my base reference point. That has helped guide me these past 3 months that I've been aware of the "AV Science Forum".

So, the OP, "Forum Quality: is more people better"
My reply: Yes

Hopefully down the road I can help others like I've been helped and add to the collective knowledge.
I may not become an expert tweaker, but hopefully I'll become a decent one.

Lots of good people here and of course a few rotten apples as well. Your sony is an excellent projector.

Remember the old saying that " you can be anything you want to be behind the computer ". Anyone who criticizes another persons projector is not a professional. Real advice will come from members who are neutral and unbiased.

After a short time following the forum you will learn to recognize these individuals.

We do not have too many people we have too many posts.

Popular products have 1000's of posts.
Half of them speculating on what it will be like before it is released and too many saying
"great"
"I'm getting one too"
"Hope you enjoy it"
quote of a log post followed by
:D
flame wars and sarcastic crap
a question in post 2456 that was answered in post 1134 - not surprising, who wants read though all that junk to get the meat.

We want posts that impart new knowledge, tell us about what you just got and how it well/badly it works, heads up and warnings, DIY ideas, praise for someone who went though alot of trouble to put together a great post, questions (yes, including dumb questions by newbies) and answers to the questions. In other words good posts

More poeple means more expertise, more poeple with the stuff we are interested in and who can answer questions. etc.

We just need some self regulation on what we post. Maybe moderators could remove the number of posts and title below the name (except of course for the founding fathers and grey emeinances). This might remove some incentive for junk posts. Perhaps the person who began the post could have permission to deleate the junk.

regards

Denis

More is better. I don't find the same questions over and over from the new people to be nearly as annoying as the old forum trolls that spout the same "my view is gospel, other views are crap" over and over and intentionally start wars - those people are the worst by far. I would like to see more locked threads with real technical knowledge in them, but that takes a lot of time and effort from many people.

First of all, more members posting here (in this subforum, specifically) reflects increased interest in front projection and that is a good thing. It is a double edged sword because more volume does mean more sifting in order to find meaningful information. I agree that a more moderating is called for to lock useless trolling flame war threads and to delete abusive posts.

Dan

I've been a member for several years now. AVS is an invaluable resource. It really helped me through my buying decisions (intense expediture of $$$).

I would like to add that I don't think price is a good method for dividing groups. I would prefer projector type (DLP, LCOS, etc). There's more here than just PJ evaluations. The surround audio area, Blu Ray (and movies), and Home Theater PC (which caused me to abandon the idea as way too complicated.

Marcus