the beast is at home for re testing
first re-impressions:
1. massive brightness: which reminds me a xenon luminosity in theaters
since lumens capacity is high, whites don't clip because it's natural power not pushed over contrast brigthness. this is not a toy (300-400lumens pj): this is for adults (1000-1700lumens); outdoor scenes are amazing in naturalness.(note: i'm in the camp of 20/25FTL people than 6-12)
2. sharpness: with HD it's much better than lcos and better than some 1DLP: impact of perfect convergence and great optics.
the source makes the difference vs a 1080p pj (remember testing hd from dtheater on our 720p pj). also somehow the ultra sharpness of 1080p to 1080p sometimes makes the image too digital, 'too' sharp... hard to explain.
3. colorimetry: natural. superb. not cartoonish like lcos, lcd.
4. 3D and ansi contrast: wow ! depth is massive. impressed. ansi is more important than on off (which is paradoxal when you think a CRT had 100,000:1 on off and 70-100ansi maximum...)
5. downscaling: you don't see it. it's really something a lot simpler than upscaling for a pj or electronics. sce is 24P PS3.
6. noise, dvd: i'll say it's forgiving more on noisy HD than a full hd pj which forgives nothing and reveals too easily micro noise. also dvd can look better on a 720p but it depends on distance and upscaling. i find it revealing less noise than the 1080p model.
next tests: all screen width with ISCO lens and impact on mperforations (so far no moiré with screen size 350cm)
i'll post some pics.

I agree with you 100%. I have a C3X 720 (not the E version) and I couple it with a RadianceXD to correct the color gamut, and the results are stunning. The "E" version is even brighter with more accurate colors and better updated processing.

I'm afraid, however, that the 1080p marketing push is too strong to get many to rationally look at the high-quality 720p projectors that can be bought at bargain prices.

Bob

I'm afraid, however, that the 1080p marketing push is too strong to get many to rationally look at the high-quality 720p projectors that can be bought at bargain prices.

Bob

The J6P mentality of some is a hard thing to penetrate, let alone break. The simple fact is that unless your within the 1080 distance, and most i've seen still aren't, the C3Xe is superior to most PJs out there........comfortably. It still has that 3 chip slam. For the moment at least, to get a 3 chip image you still need a 3 chip machine.

3D and ansi contrast: wow ! depth is massive. impressed. ansi is more important than on off (which is paradoxal when you think a CRT had 100,000:1 on off and 70-100ansi maximum I agree with you 100%.
I have a C3X 720 (not the E version) and I couple it with a RadianceXD to correct the color gamut, and the results are stunning. The "E" version is even brighter with more accurate colors and better updated processing. I'm afraid, however, that the 1080p marketing push is too strong to get many to rationally look at the high-quality 720p projectors that can be bought at bargain prices.

I have combined these two posts. I have yet to see a DLP any type and I have seen the CX720p that gives you the same 3d effect as a CRT. My reference is the Electrohome 9500LC. I was also watching it on a 6.5 ft screen. It is a different image altogether than DLP or digital projectors. I love the increase in size of screen you can go with DLP, but nobody can convince me that it's better. I believe I had awesome ansi and on/contrast with that screen size. Enough of each that it looked real in all types of scenes. Hopefully one day a digital day provide me with the that same trueness on a larger screen. I do not think we are there yet and I'm not alone.

JC

I have combined these two posts. I have yet to see a DLP any type and I have seen the CX720p that gives you the same 3d effect as a CRT. My reference is the Electrohome 9500LC. I was also watching it on a 6.5 ft screen. It is a different image altogether than DLP or digital projectors. I love the increase in size of screen you can go with DLP, but nobody can convince me that it's better. I believe I had awesome ansi and on/contrast with that screen size. Enough of each that it looked real in all types of scenes. Hopefully one day a digital day provide me with the that same trueness on a larger screen. I do not think we are there yet and I'm not alone.

JC
Joey

Honestly with all due respect, I think you are still living in the dark ages of HT and for a 6.5 foot screen, not a fair comparison to what all of us are experiencing on screens 2x the size

I have combined these two posts. I have yet to see a DLP any type and I have seen the CX720p that gives you the same 3d effect as a CRT. My reference is the Electrohome 9500LC. I was also watching it on a 6.5 ft screen. It is a different image altogether than DLP or digital projectors. I love the increase in size of screen you can go with DLP, but nobody can convince me that it's better. I believe I had awesome ansi and on/contrast with that screen size. Enough of each that it looked real in all types of scenes. Hopefully one day a digital day provide me with the that same trueness on a larger screen. I do not think we are there yet and I'm not alone.

JC

FFS Joey. Its nice to see someone who is happy with a new purchase and who posts to express his or her joy in that new machine. I could think of no more insensitively inappropriate time at which to express a preference for an alternative or to critique the subject of said purchase. What a buzz kill. I love going toe to toe with anyone i disagree with, but I draw the line at threads who's topic is a new purchase. I really cant believe you to be so mean spirited.

Hopefully this thread will remian on topic and not be derailed by the same 1-2 naysayers who unfortunately haven't seen the trees for the forest.
I agree totally with CM

FFS Joey. Its nice to see someone who is happy with a new purchase and who posts to express his or her joy in that new machine. I could think of no more insensitively inappropriate time at which to express a preference for an alternative or to critique the subject of said purchase. What a buzz kill. I love going toe to toe with anyone i disagree with, but I draw the line at threads who's topic is a new purchase. I really cant believe you to be so mean spirited.

I was responing to this comment below and how on earth is that mean spirited?

3D and ansi contrast: wow ! depth is massive. impressed. ansi is more important than on off (which is paradoxal when you think a CRT had 100,000:1 on off and 70-100ansi maximum...)
Buzz Kill ????Insensitive

Hopefully this thread will remian on topic and not be derailed by the same 1-2 naysayers who unfortunately haven't seen the trees for the forest.
I agree totally with CM

My point was very specific..Are we not allowed to have an opinion on comparing technologies when gthe point is brought up...I am not saying projector a is better than projector b. The OP talked about which is more important to him...and I followed..so what!! it's a forum and I wasn't rude.

You guys are all sitting on eggshells throwing darts at people...gimmie a break

If there is one thing all of Joey's posts have in common, it's a lack of understanding (and tact). It's like watching a child who thinks his etch-a-sketch is the best there could possibly be, because he can't spin two wheels on his computer to draw lines in the sand.

and yours are always rude and condescending...typical of the type of individual that you are!!

Q you can't hide your pathetic secret for ever!!

Joey

you must admit that a 6.5 foot screen by todays standards isn't even considered "big screen"

euh oh..... can we stay on topic ?
crt pjs are dead technology except for a few second hand units still existing.
and i have to admit a good 8-9'' crt still looks great and natural and noise free but it has too many issues (costs, convergence, mainteance, screen size,poor ANSI c, poor lumens).

to me the ULTIMATE cinema experience at home is :large curved scope screen with speakers behind. point. immersive cinematism :): size, field of vision, engrossing.
so what do you need ? a great projector with lumens capacity, a lens, a curved screen and capable speakers behind.
screen sizes of 300-500cm in widths.
Luminosity is paramount imho and too much neglected by home theater manufacturers.
the sheer realism that 20FTL or more, on a big screen can give you has to be experienced.
I'm also of the guys who can appreciate a quality fresh film print in theater on a screen size say of 8-10meters max as it's a lot brigther (with a fresh Xenon) than a 24meters screen. and the resolution looks way better.
of course it's rare and prints are quickly dropping in quality, resolution. (copies, use etc)
So this C3XE belongs to very few machines that can do that. lumens+Big screen with home theater qualities (color gamma ansi) is hard to get yr hands on.
and remember: massive ansi contrast trounces a CRT in many scenes. and with a scope configuration (no "black" bars reference), ultimate race for the on/off becomes trivial imho.

euh oh..... can we stay on topic ?
crt pjs are dead technology except for a few second hand units still existing.
and i have to admit a good 8-9'' crt still looks great and natural and noise free but it has too many issues (costs, convergence, mainteance, screen size,poor ANSI c, poor lumens).

to me the ULTIMATE cinema experience at home is :large curved scope screen with speakers behind. point. immersive cinematism : size, field of vision, engrossing.
so what do you need ? a great projector with lumens capacity, a lens, a curved screen and capable speakers behind.
screen sizes of 300-500cm in widths.
Luminosity is paramount imho and too much neglected by home theater manufacturers.
the sheer realism that 20FTL or more, on a big screen can give you has to be experienced.
I'm also of the guys who can appreciate a quality fresh film print in theater on a screen size say of 8-10meters max as it's a lot brigther (with a fresh Xenon) than a 24meters screen. and the resolution looks way better.
of course it's rare and prints are quickly dropping in quality, resolution. (copies, use etc)
So this C3XE belongs to very few machines that can do that. lumens+Big screen with home theater qualities (color gamma ansi) is hard to get yr hands on.
and remember: massive ansi contrast trounces a CRT in many scenes. and with a scope configuration (no "black" bars reference), ultimate race for the on/off becomes trivial imho.

Hey man thanks for your explainantion and actually taking the time out to do it. See my point was just that.... a single point.... and in no way was I trying to hijack the thread as for the 3 big bad bears...I guess they smelled blood...unfortunately it was theirs!!

Yes OB 6.5 is small by todays standard, even my 8 ft is getting there....but that was never my point. All the best!!

as for the 3 big bad bears..

Eat your porridge Joey for you're no Goldilocks.:)

As good as I suspect you may look in a dress, the crowning mantle of humility and victimhood does not suit you.:)

BIG image is a paramount part of the cinema experience. i don't know about the US ht market but in Europe the trend is for larger and larger screens.
most of big screens i installed in HThers were from 300 to 400cm width, most scope formats. clients said : this is cinema, this is not home theater :D.
unfortunately most buyers had only 4-8K for the projector part so tricks had to be used and warning the client: be ready to change often the lamp (ie 1000hrs instead of 2000hrs), placing the pj as close as possible t the screen( large zoom pjs lose a lot of brightness at long throw), using gain or curvation etc
the C3XE doesnt bother about size :D: it just fires the screen :)
if only the JVC or SONY (though their pricing un-policy is highly critizable now) hade real 1500lumens pjs....

Compared to the 11 inch wide screen Sony currently on the market with a MSRP of $2500, 6 1/2 feet wide must be considered a legitimate wide screen.

ansi is more important than on off .

No. It has been shown ad nauseam on AVS that it depends on what you watch whether ANSI or On-Off is the bottleneck in a specific shot. I have no use for the kind of On-Off these DLP3 chippers offer for now. I find it far too restrictive when watching feature films and there is no daylight scene on.

i also loved CRT and i also appreciate massive 50000:1 or more on off. so let's hope too one day dlp can reach giant on off or lcos brake the barrier of 200-250:1 ansi contrast
but it find it more important to have a machine capable in a large scope configuration.
with tons of brigthness, big ansi, 4000-6000:1 on off. no "black" bars as reference, curved large screen (4meters and beyond). size does matter :D

i also loved CRT and i also appreciate massive 50000:1 or more on off. so let's hope too one day dlp can reach giant on off or lcos brake the barrier of 200-250:1 ansi contrast
but it find it more important to have a machine capable in a large scope configuration.
with tons of brigthness, big ansi, 4000-6000:1 on off. no "black" bars as reference, curved large screen (4meters and beyond). size does matter :D
I cherrish my large screen too and would not go back to CRT and a smaller 4:3 screen for better blacks. But I still miss the blacks now and then. At 15000:1 it's ok. At 5000:1 it would be too gray for me. So I wait for DLP to catch up with LCOS and have then another look.

I cherrish my large screen too and would not go back to CRT and a smaller 4:3 screen for better blacks. But I still miss the blacks now and then. At 15000:1 it's ok. At 5000:1 it would be too gray for me. So I wait for DLP to catch up with LCOS and have then another look.

i'm back to dlp (3DLP if i keep it) because of much bigger ansi contrast and better colorimetry.
:)
and once you can enjoy massive brigthness (3-4x more than the sony-jvc), there's no turn back. this and ansi gives enormous pop/realism.

all this again in a pure cinema-like 2.35:1 configuration. if the screen is 16/9 then of course once seeks the deep black bars (still not but close, a reality)

C3XE 720P 3DLP VERDICT:
verdict: not selected unless viewing distance is >1.8 width
explanations:
LUMINOSITY: great. xenon remembering.
CONTRAST ON OFF: great in a constant height config
CONTRAST ANSI /3D: superb. trounces lcos lcd to oblivion. lcos must work on ansi contrast!
COLORIMETRY: great, not cartoonish
DEPTH: great !
dithering: clearly much less than 1DLP. but it depends on viewing distance (dithering is not only created by the color wheel system but also the movement of the mirrors)
MOIRE: none.
HD rendering: great on foreground, softer of background, 720p not being able to display all the sce.
MIRRORISATION (pixelisation): there's the problem. one need to sit at 1.8x the wdith to no see it no more. so if you are in this case, ok. such as last row.
a 10ft wide screen you still have to sit at around 5.4meters or more.
DOWNSCALING: same:sit at 1.8 or you see harsh digital edges. (aliasing ?)

the 1080P dlp and dila have set up the new standard for most viewing distances. that's a fact. our brain and eyes memory this.
so what to do for large screens + limited budget and seek for the SMPTE 16-20FTL ?
high gain screens.
Thanks to the new advance in light path made by brands like SIM2 BENQ MARANTZ, 1DLPs now are "bright" so to speak (i didn't say 1500lumens!!). to compensate for 350-400cm screens, a little gain helps.
Seamed fabrics are a big no no since they EAT 25% of brigthness and kill ANSI contrast.
(with a big RUNCO or medium screen C3X ok) the user has to test thus high gain microperforated screens and prey for no moiré. (note: all this assuming a behind screen speakers configuration)
But you end up with a punchy contrasted image preserving the ANSI.
conclusion for budget unlimited people seeking big screens: C3X 1080P/HT5000/DP 250 REFERENCE 1080p(up to 6000lumens-special theater colorimetry etc)

the comparison with the C3XE was done with the W5000. which is a sharp and punchy dlp (iris all opened, db on, bcolor off, custom colors, blevel 7.5 and corrected brigthness). it was very close in punch to the C3XE confirming WMeyer first stunned impression of 1000lumens. moiré is stricky to avoid though. more tests needed.

i hope we finally start seeing "affordable" 2000lumens calibrated 1DLP or 3DLP in the 10K range some day...

all this again in a pure cinema-like 2.35:1 configuration. if the screen is 16/9 then of course once seeks the deep black bars (still not but close, a reality)
I use masking but I still see that black is not black as soon as APL is low enough. No masking or screen can fix that, only lower black levels.