Official Sony HDR-SR11/12 Thread [Text View] - Page 9

flintyplus

06-29-08, 04:40 AM

well my sr12 came today earlier than expected it was too late to do many tests but my initial impresion,i certainly would not want a smaller machine as its a lot smaller than i expected although i knew all the dimensions.the initial test i have done played back through my ps3 was realy good in regards colour, cleanness, and pans,the colour and clean look apear better than my hdv cams but i must stress i have only done a short test.playback via the component does not play like through the ps3 as after each clip there is a kind of black break.i find the manual poor compaired to the manuals of the hdv cams,the maual says there is an optional neck strap but i cant find where to get one.i have much to learn yet with the sr12,i must mention i am not keen on the cradle set up as it seems flimsy compared to the rest of the machine.

after a day out with mine i am pleased the picture is very good,i could not get acceptable footage without a mono brace or tripod though.yesterday i just took my monopod but used it as an arm mostly to hold against my body.
i could not use the lcd in sunlight if there was no viewfinder i would have to get a lcd shade of some sort but the viewfinder is no problem.with the supplied battery i got 30 mins recording with the usual start and stop but i do have the np-fh100.the worst thing i find is the amount of wind noise picked up i know these small cams are prone to it but its worse on this cam than the hc-1 it could be the surround sound makes it more extreme.so for now all my footage will have to be stored on a hard drive until i have enough wumph to edit as i see little point in reducing the quality.
as an afterthought i can find no use for using the cradle as everything ie sockets are also on the cam ,am i missing something.of course disc burn,

xjer

06-29-08, 09:48 AM

My HDR-SR11 is on the way. I am sure I will have lots of questions
once it gets here. I hope it makes it in time for July 4th.

Can anyone recommend a good place to pick up extra batteries and a tripod?

Thank you,
Mike

ViZiOny

06-30-08, 01:13 AM

I must say this camera rocks, the video I shot is amazing. I am having such difficulty with the PMB software though. When I play back the video on my pc and laptop the footage I shot is very choppy when the video is moving from side to side.

I am getting iLife 08 for the MAC shortly so I can test it on my mac book pro.

Also when converting it to WMV or AVI using their PMB, I realize I lose a lot of the quality that was originally in its original MTS format. What are the steps you guys are taking to archive your footage off the camcorder? I would like to be able to stream it online, like how these people have done.

http://www.vimeo.com/839652

The picture looks great! I know its a lot of steps in converting to x264 codecs, I am hoping to do what this guy has done.

DaveThomasPilot

06-30-08, 08:06 AM

Lindseybp

06-30-08, 09:36 AM

It should handle it fine from what I've read depending on the software you chose for editting - The Sony Style store will be a couple hunderd more than what you can get it for elsewhere though - I bought an SR11 online Monday morning and it showed up Wednesday mid day at a substantial savings from an authorized seller.

Good point on the substantial savings. I checked around and found that Costco online had it for a significantly cheaper amount and also extends the warranty to 2 years. I ordered it from there and got the expedited shipping so I'm hoping it will be here by Wednesday!

I think I'm going to wait for Vegas 9 that hits in August. I'm not sure what new features it will bring but I figure I can wait another month. Hopefully it will be a nice upgrade.

ericjut

06-30-08, 09:44 AM

I think I read you get about 11 seconds of high frame rate shooting that you can play back for that nice, smooth, super slow motion. Is that right?

I think it's only 3 seconds (240 frames), that plays back as 12 seconds.

So, can you pause during the fast frame rate recording, then resume so that I can capture four two second slots of high speed recording over say, 20 seconds?
No. You can stop the recording, but it'll still need time to buffer. Don't forget, there is no pause button on AVCHD.

There is another mode, where, when you click it will record the last 3 seconds that just past by, which reduces the buffering time after the "click", but I found it really hard to time the action.

How soon after shooting a fast frame rate scene, can you shoot another? Can you play back in super slow motion on the camcorder?
It buffers it after you record it and as it buffers it, it does it in real time (and playing it back). So, in real time, it goes like this:
1. You record your 3 seconds of footage (3 seconds)
2. The camera plays it back in slow motion as it buffers it (takes 12 seconds)

As for playing it back, it's always going to playback in slow mo once it's recorded.

Can you freeze frames from super slow motion playback?

You'll have to do that in post, which should be very easy.

Finally note that the resolution is impacted by using this mode by a factor of 4, so instead of 1920x1080, you're looking more at a 960x540, which makes it look pretty blurry if you try to composite it with normal speed clips.

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool feature... but I personally don't think you can use it for serious business. My $0.02 anyway.

ericjut

06-30-08, 09:49 AM

Good point on the substantial savings. I checked around and found that Costco online had it for a significantly cheaper amount and also extends the warranty to 2 years. I ordered it from there and got the expedited shipping so I'm hoping it will be here by Wednesday!

The extra year is a misconception that even clerks at Costco don't know that well. Basically, it doesn't apply to camcorders, only to TVs and computers. If you paid with an AMEX, you'll still get an extra year of coverage, but not by Costco.

Just wanted to make sure you knew. If that's a showstopper for you, you can always return the unit in the next 90 days for a full refund.

DaveThomasPilot

06-30-08, 09:56 AM

Ok, thanks for the info. That was really useful.

I didn't realize you can't pause AVCHD. Sounds like I need to do some more homework.

If it's not too much, can you elaborate on what this means or point me to something that desribes the limitation. For example, you mentioned you can't pause on AVCHD but what's the difference between pause versus stop and restart? I definitely need to stop recording after about 20 seconds and start recording again several minutes later for another 20 second heat.

Are any of the other camcorders like the Canon HF10 any better for this type of thing? I don't want something really expensive (over 1.5K) just for this slow motion feature but it probably would be a deciding factor on which HD camcorder to get.

Thanks,

Dave Thomas

jasoraso

06-30-08, 09:57 AM

Hi,

I'm interested in the SR11's slow motion capability.

I think I read you get about 11 seconds of high frame rate shooting that you can play back for that nice, smooth, super slow motion. Is that right?

I'd like to record flyball heats, and play back portions at the super slow speed. Unfortutnately, 11 seconds isn't enough. The heats last from 15 to 25 seconds.

So, can you pause during the fast frame rate recording, then resume so that I can capture four two second slots of high speed recording over say, 20 seconds?

How soon after shooting a fast frame rate scene, can you shoot another? Can you play back in super slow motion on the camcorder?

Can you freeze frames from super slow motion playback?

Thanks,

Dave Thomas

The slow motion feature records 3 seconds of video, and plays it back over 12 seconds. When you record a 3 second cip, it buffers the frames (no audio) and records them over 12 seconds onto the storage media (so it basically takes 12 seconds to record 3 seconds.)

One nice feature is that you can set it to pre-record, so you video your subject for however long you want, and then hit the record button, and the previous 3 seconds (to hitting the record button) is written to the HDD or memory card (and it takes 12 seconds to do this). After the 12 seconds, the camera will return to the ready state, and you can record again.

The resolution is also decreased somewhat when recording using the slo-motion feature, as well as the brightness.

Although it sounds like it won't work very well for what you want, it really is a fun feature of the camera.

Here's a few examples (make sure to click "view in high quality"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrQdYaPTboI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UFq3e_2y_o

jasoraso

06-30-08, 10:04 AM

It helps that ebay/microsoft have a percentage off buy it now items going on right now, about 20%. Plus, factor in that you can get some money out of the old HDD, and it is not even close to $800 for the upgrade. Another seller has them at 200234158981. I hope it is not against any rules to mention these listings, as it is no different than talking about a store. It is just that these drives are not available for sale to the public...they must be pulled from pre-built systems. This is really the only way to get them for the upgrade.

Thanks for reporting this here bradfordj. That is great news. Hopefully prices for SSD will continue to drop, and the connectors won't change anytime soon ....

DaveThomasPilot

06-30-08, 10:06 AM

One nice feature is that you can set it to pre-record, so you video your subject for however long you want, and then hit the record button, and the previous 3 seconds (to hitting the record button) is written to the HDD or memory card (and it takes 12 seconds to do this). After the 12 seconds, the camera will return to the ready state, and you can record again.

Oh, I like that!

One thing that I wojuld like to do is to judge how close dogs pass each other, and give quick feedback to the dog's handler. It happens too fast for most humans to do accuately, but being able to hit a button and replay the pass would be great!

But, 3 seconds is too long since it would be replaying while the next dog on the team is running his split of heat. Is the time configurable, so I could do something like record 1/2 second and play back super slow over two seconds? That would be awesome, but I'm guessing not.

Thanks,

Dave THomas

Lindseybp

06-30-08, 10:45 AM

The extra year is a misconception that even clerks at Costco don't know that well. Basically, it doesn't apply to camcorders, only to TVs and computers. If you paid with an AMEX, you'll still get an extra year of coverage, but not by Costco.

Just wanted to make sure you knew. If that's a showstopper for you, you can always return the unit in the next 90 days for a full refund.

Wow, I had no idea that this didn't apply to camcorders. A bit misleading in a sense. I did pay with an AMEX so that's good. I think I'll wait for it to arrive and go from there. The 90 day return policy is nice to have and the price was still pretty good anyway. Thanks for the info.

ericjut

06-30-08, 11:29 AM

Wow, I had no idea that this didn't apply to camcorders. A bit misleading in a sense. I did pay with an AMEX so that's good. I think I'll wait for it to arrive and go from there. The 90 day return policy is nice to have and the price was still pretty good anyway. Thanks for the info.

Those are the reasons I kept mine (bought mine at the store).

But I was pretty annoyed to learn after the fact that I'd been lied to by the store clerk regarding the warranty policy. He told me that I would get 3 year of warranty if I use my AMEX if I buy it from them, which is obviously wrong.

Ken Steadman

06-30-08, 11:44 AM

Thats what the link in post 2005 says - August - do a search on it and you can find more colaborating news stories.

Thats- Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Pro , Not to be confused with Sony Vegas Pro which is not coming out anytime soon.

srode

06-30-08, 06:46 PM

Thats- Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Pro , Not to be confused with Sony Vegas Pro which is not coming out anytime soon.Hmm, my mistake - wonder what the difference is between them for the version 9 studio platinum pro and Vegas pro 8?

img eL

06-30-08, 08:46 PM

"Pro Pack" for Studio Platinum 9. I don't know, might be great. Sony's the Avchdist's, might be big improvments.

JuiceRocket

06-30-08, 11:03 PM

Question for all of you Ulead 11.5/Plus users.

I've successfully burned "HD-DVD's" from Ulead twice. However, a few times I've notice that when I'm in the DVD creation screen (I've included an image below for reference) the "NEXT" button is grayed out.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_D4l1pKnNNDM/SGmsW4JzTzI/AAAAAAAAAI4/ZU9pUUrzbHA/s320/screen.jpg

I can't figure out why this is happening. The only consistency I see is that neither of the two discs I've successfully created have a mixture of still images and video. Perhaps that's the problem? I can't imagine that it won't burn because it has some stills in the timeline?

Any help would be great.

Thank you!

-JR

flintyplus

07-01-08, 06:03 AM

a little disappointed with some recordings i have done today,this machine showed the usual sony awb failing [inconsistency]green park and trees changed colour acuracy far too much for my liking i dont underdstand as i found pevious footage very good,the weather was similar sunny periods mostly sun.i have not tried outdoor or one touch yet as awb should be fine for this machine.
i presume there is no colour intensity on the sr11/12 like the hdv cams have.i fail to understand why the manual has 84 pages less than the hc-1.

ericjut

07-01-08, 11:14 AM

ericjut

07-01-08, 11:23 AM

I finally had my first really bad experience with the 3rd gen AVCHD encoding algorithm today. :(

It involved a trampoline net and my daughter. I was shooting my girl jumping from inside the trampoline net, which is made of black honeycomb patterns. The combination of my daughter moving up and down with that high detail backdrop litterally killed PQ. The output result is crippled with macro block compression artifacts, including on the edges of the face with the face detection on. I unfortunately don't have an HDV camcorder at my disposal to compare the same case and assess if HDV could do better, but I certainly hit a case where the current compression algorithm doesn't cut it.

I saw the algorithm being stressed with pool shots (with a lot of reflection and entropy), but somehow, it was still able to keep my subject faces mostly clear of major artifacts.

I'll post snapshots/clips if there's any interest.

August1991

07-01-08, 11:32 AM

Well, I have managed to read through this entire thread, all 60 or so pages. There's a wealth of information in this thread, from ordinary users around the world. For example, ericjut and Ken Ross are remarkable posters and I've learned alot from them.

I have an SR11 and I've been using it for the past few weeks in different places, with different noises and different lighting conditions. Primarily from reading this thread, but also from using my SR11, here's my resume of some basic points, questions, thoughts with links where appropriate. (Given what I have learned from this thread and forum, it seems only fair that I offer my opinions too.) For better or worse, my remarks will shift from the general rant to the specific and technical.

In another post, I want to give my opinions of software, editing, codecs/filters.

GENERAL REMARKS about the SR11/12

This thread started (March 2008) when the SR11/12 was still very new and little was known about it. (BTW, the SR11 is identical to the SR12 except for the hard drive size. They both also have PAL/European "E" versions. I'll refer here to the SR11.) Many initial posts in the thread are common queries of early adopters. There are expected questions/comments about batteries, prices, where to buy. (For the record, I overpaid for my SR11 at SonyStyle in Canada. Ughh.)

General impressions? The SR11 has a solid construction ("built like a tank") but its auto-focus works poorly in lowlight (compared to Canon). I'm impressed with my SR11's sound. IMHO, too few posters here have noted its 5.1 sound. Amazing! On playback, you feel that you were there. In a small kitchen (in Moscow) with four people, I taped two simultaneous conversations in two different languages (Russian & French) and both are comprehensible on playback. I think this is due not just to the 5.1 sound but also the quality of the built-in mics. IMV, posters on this forum are overly concerned with image and forget the importance of sound. I almost never film without narration and I almost always video with someone in or near the frame. I want a POV.

The Sony's 5.1 sound was a critical factor in my choosing the SR11 over a Canon. I'm pleased.

-----

FYI (Stuff that confuses people or Stuff people don't seem to know about. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

1) The SR11/12 front round button is neat and poorly understood. Press the centre and flip through the menu. I don't use it but admire the designers who put it there.

2) The optical zoom is variable. You can extend it or shorten it from within the camera's software.

3) Users seem confused about the orange (chg) light on the back of the camera. It indicates both that the battery is charged and that the (still) flash is ready to go. The indicator has both chg and a lightening strike beside it.

4) I have always put a small piece of tape on the front of my video cameras to hide the red light that indicates "filming now". I prefer to be discrete when taping and I like sponaneity. With the SR11/12, make sure the tape doesn't cover the infrared/focus sensor.

5) The SR11 breaks files up into 2Gb chunks but PMB or Sony Vegas puts them back together seamlessly. 2Gb at the highest HD is about 12 minutes or so. It takes about 1 minute to copy this file from the camera's HD to a PC through the USB cable.

-----

DOLLY/WALK/PAN Issues

I like to walk while I video and follow someone as they discover whatever I video. Unfortunately, HD exaggerates any movement. I'm learning how to handle this while looking for other solutions. There are "stabilizers" or a poor man's Steadicam available. One is called a Merlin (Link: 966, p. 33 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13545618#post13545618)) or (Link: 1588, p. 53 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13776671#post13776671)) for advice.

-----

SOUND Issues

I've noted above the SR11's great strength in sound. Whoever films, should not speak - or not too much (Link: 1028, p. 35 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13560292#post13560292)). The SR11's 5.1 mic picks up everything and the voice behind the lens will dominate. An external mic or using the SR11's built-in zoom mic function (haven't tried yet, Link: 1867, p. 63 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14010788#post14010788)) might correct this problem. I have always wanted a bluetooth mic to clip on a lapel of the designated narrator and maybe that's what I'll choose.

There's a discussion of external mics here: Link: 1053, p. 36 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13563788#post13563788) and here Link: 1527, p. 51 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13726934#post13726934)

------

LIGHT Issues

This thread has few comments about light perhaps because Sony manages light well. I chose the SR11 in part because it performs well in lowlight. 60 watts is enough for a good image and candlelight enough for, well, an image by candlelight. Stanley Kubrick might quibble but I won't. (I'll quibble with the so-called "candlelight" setting unless no one moves. In "candlelight" mode, I think the shutter speed slows and you get ghosting.)

If you film fireworks or the full moon, check out these other modes: Link: 1694, p. 57 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13873028#post13873028). IME, the SR11 captures well the initial image but forget trying to fix it later on the computer. You can fix still images later in a PC with Photoshop. You cannot do the same with moving images unless you have alot of time, patience and a powerful machine.

The major weakness of the SR11 is the autofocus in lowlight. It tends to search too long. At night, the SR11 has "bad" eyesight. (If my eyesight were as bad as the SR11, I'd be happy...) I let it focus before starting to record and then I don't move it.

=======

SPECIFIC QUESTIONS

1) IMV, a wide angle lens is a necessity for this camera and I'm looking for one now. What wide angle to buy? The 5050 or Sony?

2) IMHO, my SR11 replaces the need for a still digital camera. I really like its flash system. You click to fix the focus-distance and then press for the flash and photo. Great for moving kids and cats! The flash is extremely close to the lens and red-eye is not a problem. You can capture good still images from video but I tend to decide whether to film or to photo beforehand. Question: The SR11 claims to offer 10.2Mb in still pix. Is that true? Or does it "upgrade" from 5.1 Mb?

3) According to documentation, Total Pixel Count is 5.6M but the Effective Pixel Count is 3.8M. What does this mean, if anything?

4) What are the created sfk0 and sfk1 files? For example, if I add mp3 sound files to an authored/edited video, sfk files get created and added to the directory. WTF?

5) I didn't install and don't use Sony Motion Picture Browser (MPB). IMHO, you can do everything without it except, from what I understand, stitch together files (if the total size doesn't exceed 2Gb). Everytime you press pause, the SR11/12 creates a new .mts file. If you connect using the USB or use the memory card, you'll have to move all these files. MPB apparently attaches them together into one file. (Sony Vegas does the same thing anyway and I prefer to do my own stitching.) So, have I missed something with MPB or is it, as I suspect, just bloatware?

6) Altitude problems and the HD. It's apparently "simple" to remove the HDD. Remove 4 screws, Link: 988, p. 33 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13552469#post13552469) or Link: 1629, p. 55 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13824609#post13824609). (Service manuals here" (https://www.manualsparadise.com/AboutOurStore.do))

7) I don't think you need the docking station. I haven't used it. Am I wrong?

8) There is apparently a date/time stamp Link: 1813, p. 61 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13941984#post13941984) but I haven't tried it. More generally, does anyone know how to include subtitles? (I think this is more a software question.)

SPECIFIC COMMENTS

1) I like the way the SR11 cuts (ends) the USB connection to a PC. I "end" the link at the SR11 and this seems to ensure that all files are properly closed.

2) It's irritating to switch between SD/HD Link: 1542, p. 52 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13745285#post13745285) The files are different and the directory structre also. Frankly, I record everything in HD even if I intend to render later into SD.

Follow up/Next Link: p. 69, #2057 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14215306#post14215306)

flintyplus

07-01-08, 11:42 AM

AWB is spotty outside at times. I would definitely use "Outdoor" or "Indoor" instead of AWB for WB if I were you. And "Indoor" is good for cloudy outdoor conditions, so I wouldn't get stuck on the naming scheme.

I think you're right about saturation control... I don't remember seeing any.

As for the manual... use the digital one that comes on the CD. I would call the paper one a "getting started" manual more than anything else. :)
yes i plan to try outdoor next,i hope outdoor gives the same colour as awb when its working ok on my fx-7 outdoor and manual are too red so it has to be awb and that can lose it at times.what a pain having the manual digital people dont always want the pc on when messing with the cam it should all be in the paper manual to my mind.a little concerned about your blocking i have not noticed it but i have not filmed anything quite the same yet [i have no little ones now]
august 1991 i cannot say i agree with you regarding the sound as i find in anything over a strong breeze wind noise is poor.

ericjut

07-01-08, 03:11 PM

For example, ericjut and Ken Ross are remarkable posters and I've learned alot from them.

On behalf of both of us, thank you for the praises. :)

Great Post BTW! I wish there was a way to pin your post like a FAQ so people would start here to answer their questions. I will definitely try to point to it in the future.

SPECIFIC QUESTIONS

1) IMV, a wide angle lens is a necessity for this camera and I'm looking for one now. What wide angle to buy? The 5050 or Sony?

The 5050Pro is nice, but after using it for a little while, I found out that the corners are indeed getting blurrier than I would want them to in wide mode. I would look at the Raynox 6600, which is a nicer, though more expensive, lens. It's been highly reviewed and it' still cheaper than the Sony one.

2) ...Question: The SR11 claims to offer 10.2Mb in still pix. Is that true? Or does it "upgrade" from 5.1 Mb?

The unit has 5.6MPixels to work with, but they're set up in a way (diagonally) that the unit can interpolate more information from them. This article explains how it works:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/The-ClearVID-CMOS-Sonys-Chip-of-Choice.htm#

My experience: it's not 5.1MP nor 10.2MP, but somewhere in between when you try to compare the resolution with photo cameras.

3) According to documentation, Total Pixel Count is 5.6M but the Effective Pixel Count is 3.8M. What does this mean, if anything?

Not sure where those numbers comes from. But I would use them to compare relatively with other units. For example, the SR11/12's numbers are 3.8M/3.8M and the HF10's are 2.07M/2.76M.

4) What are the created sfk0 and sfk1 files? For example, if I add mp3 sound files to an authored/edited video, sfk files get created and added to the directory. WTF?

Hmm.. not sure what those are. Which software are you using? It must be related to the software.

5)...So, have I missed something with MPB or is it, as I suspect, just bloatware?

I personally use PMB to quickly author DVDs and AVCHD disks. You can't beat free to do those operations. :)

6) Altitude problems and the HD. It's apparently "simple" to remove the HDD. Remove 4 screws, Link: 988, p. 33 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13552469#post13552469) or Link: 1629, p. 55 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13824609#post13824609). (Service manuals here" (https://www.manualsparadise.com/AboutOurStore.do))

You could also permanently replace the HDD with a SSD, or SSD compatible drive (using a ZIF connector). Somebody on this forum succeeded in this mod. That would remove the altitude limitation, along with other advantages (more reliability, less heat, less noise, no "g" issues, lighter, potentially less power consumption, potentially faster).

7) I don't think you need the docking station. I haven't used it. Am I wrong?

It's still in my box. :) If it had a HDMI output, I would have probably used it...

8) There is apparently a date/time stamp Link: 1813, p. 61 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13941984#post13941984) but I haven't tried it. More generally, does anyone know how to include subtitles? (I think this is more a software question.)

As I wrote, the only way I got to use the date/time stamp is with PMB while authoring AVCHD disks. I recommend trying it, it's pretty nice rendering.

Ken Ross

07-01-08, 03:58 PM

Ken Ross

07-01-08, 04:07 PM

For example, ericjut and Ken Ross are remarkable posters and I've learned alot from them.

As Eric already said, thanks much for the kind words! One thing you mentioned had me puzzled. You indicated the optical zoom is 'variable' and adjusted internally by the user. I'm assuming you're referring to the speed as opposed to the actual range. I've never seen a cam where the optical range could be adjusted by software. You can do that often with the electronic zoom ratios, but not the optical. :)

Ungermann

07-01-08, 04:19 PM

What are the created sfk0 and sfk1 files? For example, if I add mp3 sound files to an authored/edited video, sfk files get created and added to the directory. WTF?
These are Vegas files, in particular sound profile (peaks). You can remove them if you don't like having them, Vegas will recreate them if needed. When importing clips into Vegas notice the bar on the bottom left: building peak files, that is what it is doing, creating these files.

srode

07-01-08, 07:28 PM

ericjut

07-01-08, 07:33 PM

The sports pack I ordered for the SR11 showed up today - pretty slick lettle set up - the only thing it doesn't have that wasn't included is a cover for the front of the housing to cover the lens opening - guess I'll just be careful with it. A person can switch modes, turn on / off - start / stop recording - zoom and has an external stereo microphone and a flip out mirror to see the LCD for recording from behind the camera (flip the LCD upsidedown and close it, it flips the image for you so it's right side up when looking through the mirror - the image is oriented just like it would be when viewing the LCD normally). Vacation in MN next week - camera can go in the boat without any worries - I have yet to figure out if it floats with the camera in it or not - will test it out in the sink before we go.

You're talking about this, right?
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665293381

I just ordered it too, to replace my waterproof bag I have, which frankly was atrocious to use. It works...but buoyency and audio were pretty big issues. I'm looking forward to try it out too. :)

-eric

Ungermann

07-01-08, 08:32 PM

Could someone post the file structure on their Sony HDD-based AVCHD camcorder? I have got one for Panasonic and Canon (though not HDD-based, just SDHC-based). I uploaded it to wikipedia, you can see it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Overview Would be nice to have a similar structure for the Sony. You don't have to draw fancy pictures, just use "-" and "+" characters. I will edit it and post it. Thanks.

flintyplus

07-02-08, 06:37 AM

That's odd Flinty. I've never seen the AWB on my SR12 alter like that. It's usually locked in pretty well...especially outdoors. You can always try using the preset outdoor position or use the MWB.

yes i plan to ken,but i have always had the same problem with my hdv cams when the colour on awb goes a bit astray on this sr12 and the hdv cams its greens that come off worse.when awb is locked on fine its the greens i like so much with the sr12.

August1991

07-02-08, 07:37 AM

As Eric already said, thanks much for the kind words! One thing you mentioned had me puzzled. You indicated the optical zoom is 'variable' and adjusted internally by the user. I'm assuming you're referring to the speed as opposed to the actual range. I've never seen a cam where the optical range could be adjusted by software. You can do that often with the electronic zoom ratios, but not the optical. :)I misstated. I should have written "digital zoom". It is set in "Movie Settings" where it can be either Off, 24x or 150x.

Thanks to Ungermann and Eric for the answers. (The sfk0 files now make sense to me!)

august 1991 i cannot say i agree with you regarding the sound as i find in anything over a strong breeze wind noise is poor.Flinty, I agree about the wind noise. I'm currently looking for some kind of wind shield. Here's one possible solution: Link: 1587, p. 53 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13776665#post13776665).

Mike52

07-02-08, 01:42 PM

I misstated. I should have written "digital zoom". It is set in "Movie Settings" where it can be either Off, 24x or 150x.

Thanks to Ungermann and Eric for the answers. (The sfk0 files now make sense to me!)

Flinty, I agree about the wind noise. I'm currently looking for some kind of wind shield. Here's one possible solution: Link: 1587, p. 53 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13776665#post13776665).

AS to wind noise, I have noticed this problem with the SR11/12. A lot of my shooting is outdoors in the wide open, and any kind of wind is an irritation. I have tried two different solutions with varying results. First I tried to put a cloth wrist band around the cam covering the microphone area. This had limited effect; not much reduction of wind noise. Next I stuck on some velcro (the hooks?) completely surrounding the microphone area and then placed the other velcro material (the stuff the "hooks" grab onto)over the microphone area. A piece of felt was added on top of the piece of velcro over the mic to add protection against wind noise. This cut out more wind noise, but also seemed to cut out some of the rest of the sound. More fiddling and testing need be done.
So next I will test without the added felt. hopefully this will still reduce enough of the wind noise while not interfering too much with capturing the regular sound.

Mike

srode

07-02-08, 09:55 PM

You're talking about this, right?
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665293381

I just ordered it too, to replace my waterproof bag I have, which frankly was atrocious to use. It works...but buoyency and audio were pretty big issues. I'm looking forward to try it out too. :)

-eric
That's what I got - but for about 30% less - haven't tried it outdoors yet but hopefully the microphones will do better with wind than the built in 5.1 set up (which by the way works great inside). I'll give a report when I get back from vacation.

August1991

07-03-08, 02:30 PM

Post continued from here: Link: 2044, p. 69 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14198158#post14198158)

PC HARDWARE/SOFTWARE/CODEC/FILTER Issues

This topic is a nightmare. IMV, AVCHD files are simply too new and too large. People who buy these HD cameras are early adopters/guinea pigs. OTOH, software is functional now and I reckon far better than a year ago when the first AVCHD cameras arrived. Changes in software are on the near horizon. Yet, we're still far from "point and shoot" or "plug and play".

If you buy an SR11/12 (or any HD camcorder), and you intend to edit files, you should sign an "agreement to experiment". In short, AVCHD files are pushing the envelope and you can expect problems until you get everything to work well with your system. If you intend to edit or play with these files, you'll need a faster dual/quad CPU and (for the moment) a better understanding of the difference between a codec and a filter too.

CODEC/FILTERS/HARDWARE

At the moment, I'm using Media Player Classic and CoreAVC to watch without problem my USB transferred 1080i *.mts files on a typical (slowish) Vista laptop with Dual Core CPU at 1.83 GHz, 4 GB RAM and a standard Intel (945) video chipset. This barely meets the Sony manual's minimum requirements of 1.66GHz Core Duo, 2 MB RAM. I don't think CoreAVC is necessary. You need Haali media splitter and a good handle on your installed codec/filters.

A good discussion about codec/filter issues starts at Link: 1006, p. 34 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13557015#post13557015) that carries on for several posts to 1066, 1073. (Link: 1079, p. 36 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13569155#post13569155) provides a very good resume.)

To understand how your PC is handling the DirectShow of your files, I suggest downloading Microsoft's graphedit utility. I also use gspot from headbands.com. Both are free. One of the problems is that video/sound filters never really get deleted. Windows just changes their priority and hence it's not always clear what arrangement your PC is using to show a particular media file.

Frankly, I don't think ordinary users (such as myself) should be involved in codec/filter questions. I'm hoping that Sony's new software will simply install the necessary splitters and filters and the mts files will play without choppiness.

I should point out that my laptop's screen is 1280x800 so that it does not show the full resolution of the SR11. Take Ken Ross's wise counsel above to heart: for serious testing purposes, you should always use a large plasma/LCD screen. (For the record, SD DVDs (NTSC) are 720x480.)

I haven't delved into video card issues in part because I suspect other factors are more important. There's a good discussion here about cards: Link: 839, p. 28 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13517093#post13517093)

EDITING SOFTWARE

For software, I use Vegas Platinum 8 and DVD Architect Studio 4.5. (I'm thinking of switching to Vegas Pro or certainly upgrading to Platinum 9 when it is released in August. Both offer access to H.264 AVCHD mts editing. I may go for a new quadcore CPU desktop too.)

So far, I have been mostly using my SR11 to create SD DVDs. In this, I have found that I get the best results if I record in HD FQ quality (that's the highest quality). These files (AVCHD, mts, H.264) are initially large but the SR11's 60 GB HD provides more than enough storage space until I download the mts files by USB to my laptop. I use Sony Vegas Platinum to render wmv files at 720 30p (1280x720 at 30 fps progressive) with 5.1 sound (in fact, a stereo downmix). I have tried creating 24p files instead (an option in Vegas Platinum) but I have noticed no difference except the rendering time seems longer.

Because of my laptop's slow CPU, the rendering time can be long but not unmanageable. As a rough guess, it's about 3 times longer than real time. Having large RAM (3 GB or more) and a dual core seem to help. In DVD Architect Studio, I then author and burn SD DVDs with menus. These look great even on crappy TVs. It seems to me that authoring to NTSC is faster than authoring to PAL. This stage takes about 2 times real time.

This post Link: 809, p. 27 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13511191#post13511191) has a good discussion of software for editing AVCHD (H.264 or mts) files.

I like Vegas Platinum 8 and I haven't found it too daunting. I strongly suggest experimenting with several small, short files at first. Move them around, add text, fades, insert music files. There are 3 video tracks and 7 audio tracks. I particularly like being able to shrink or expand these tracks to envisage what is going on. (It's like having the 16 mm film and soundtrack in your hand and moving them around, or even stretching/shrinking them, to find a particular scene.) The "Show Me How" feature is dorky but I have used it on occasion when I'm really stuck.

I have only just started to use Vegas Platinum 8 to render into 1920x1080 30p 5.1 wmv files. (I'm still confused about bitrates and containers.) Since DVD Architect Studio can't author Blu-ray discs, I have preferred to leave this for later when I have a better handle on HD. I'm anxiously awaiting the release of Vegas Platinum 9. (As far as I can see, Vegas Platinum 8 will import but does not allow editing source mts files at 1920x1080 60i.)

I'm less impressed with DVD Architect Studio. It seems needlessly complicated. OTOH, I really like its preview feature. (A virtual remote control device appears and you can click through your virtual DVD to test it before burning.)

As Eric has noted above, there is no pause on the SR11. This means that every time you press the red button to record, the SR11 creates a whole new mts file. It even creates a new mts file once the existing file is about 2GB (or about 12 minutes at the highest resolution). Any editing software has to cope with all these file-lettes.

=====

QUESTIONS

1. How does Sony's PS3 (or any other Blu-ray player) cope with wmv 1920x1080 30p files? Can it play them? What happens on the screen?

2. I don't plan to buy a Blu-ray writer just yet. I think they ($500+) and the discs ($10) are too pricey. Rather, I think I'll upgrade to DVD Platinum 9 so that I can edit mts files and add titles and sound. Then, I'll just burn this file on to a standard, single side DVD disc without a menu. At 4.7 GB, that means about 30 minutes of HD video. I can live with that until I'm prepared to buy a Blu-ray burner and DVD Architect Pro.

As to Blu-ray players, IMHO, the only one that makes sense now is the Sony PS3 at about $400. It can play games, its software can be upgraded and it can play Sony mts files either through a disc, USB flash or Sony memory stick - but these are features that I don't need. In simple terms, IMHO, Blu-ray players are far over-priced.

Until I get Vegas Platinum 9, I can see the advantage of using Sony's Picture Motion Browser. It stitches together the mts files of the SR11 and then makes it possible to burn them in a single file on to a standard 4.7 GB DVD. Frankly though, I prefer to cut out the boring bits before committing to disc.

Does the above make sense?

3. I happen to think that one major problem in using AVCHD (mts) files is the interlacing. If I understand properly, the SR11 produces a 1920x1080 file with 60 interlaced fields per second (upper field first). By my logic, this should (mutatis mutandis) amount to 30 progressive frames per second. Do I have this right?

My first attempts to play/use mts files led to jagged edges in moving objects or when panning. Brick walls or cobblestone streets looked horrendous. I suspect that this effect is due to the deinterlacing software that my PC was using. In general, I have opted to render to 30p.

IOW, I figure there will be a 1080 60p camcorder available in a year or two. That is, AVCHD and recording formats will be able to cope with data at a 1920x1080 resolution at 60 progressive frames per second (60Hz). (At that point, the better image/sound will only come through better software compression algorithms.) I'm not a big fan of interlacing.

talbain

07-03-08, 02:43 PM

Ungermann

07-03-08, 06:42 PM

1. How does Sony's PS3 (or any other Blu-ray player) cope with wmv 1920x1080 30p files? Can it play them? What happens on the screen?
Blu-ray does not support 1080p30. The Sony camcorder you have does not record 1080p30 neither 1080PsF30, so no worries.

August1991

07-04-08, 12:05 PM

Blu-ray does not support 1080p30. The Sony camcorder you have does not record 1080p30 neither 1080PsF30, so no worries.From what I understand, all Blu ray players must support H.264/AVCHD and wmv9 (VC-1) files. This implies that a wmv 1920x1080 file should be playable on a PS3.

The SR11 records in H.264/AVCHD but Vegas Platinum will render these files into wmv9.

Frankly, since the VC-1 and AVCHD codecs are different, I suspect it's a losing proposition to go from one to the other.

Ken Ross

07-04-08, 12:48 PM

In the meantime, I would look at CoreAVC. It will (hopefully) support hardware decoding very soon and it's currently the fastest DShow filter around (it support some hardware acceleration, like for deinterlacing). It costs $15 which shouldn't break your piggy bank.

A word of warning here for those of you with Sony Vista computers. I've got two new ones, one a laptop and the other a new all-in-one desktop with a dual core 2.4 8300 processor and 1 TB of storage (which I love by the way).

Playing back AVCHD files on a memory stick was very nice via WMP. Very smooth and only an occasional dropped frame. For fun though I tried the CoreAVC codec which I used on my old non-Sony computer which played AVCHD very poorly until I installed CoreAVC. Much to my surprise, the CoreAVC seemed to play the AVCHD files very poorly with lots of stutter. What really made matters worse was than when I uninstalled the CoreAVC, WMP no longer recognized these files and nothing that I did was able to restore the smooth AVCHD playback, or any AVCHD playback I once had with Sony's codecs.

Since I couldn't figure out what was going wrong, I decided to simply do a factory restore since it was brand new and I really had nothing on it. So I have no idea why this happened, but suffice is to say that I'm very happy with the smooth playback just using Sony's incorporated codecs in this machine.

img eL

07-04-08, 01:42 PM

Ken, Did the factory restore bring back the smooth AVCHD playback?

srode

07-04-08, 04:10 PM

You're talking about this, right?
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665293381

I just ordered it too, to replace my waterproof bag I have, which frankly was atrocious to use. It works...but buoyency and audio were pretty big issues. I'm looking forward to try it out too. :)

-ericJust did a bathtub test - it floats - not just barely but solidly. About half of the closure is above water - you have to push it some to get it under which is great. A person can use the tripod mount to add some weight if they were going to use it under water like a pool or snorkeling.

Ungermann

07-04-08, 05:11 PM

I have CoreAVC on Vista 32bit, using it with BSPlayer with no problem. I could not care less for WMP as it does not deinterlace interlaced video and does not provide access to lower-level driver options. On the opposite, the BSPlayer shows what drivers it uses and provides easy access to their options. WMP sucks.

ericjut

07-05-08, 01:46 AM

flintyplus

07-05-08, 02:11 PM

KrionX, welcome aboard. I've had almost every consumer/prosumer HD camcorder that's come to market: HC1, HC7, FX1, FX7, HV10, HV20 and now the SR12. To my eyes the SR12 (the first full 1920X1080 cam I've had) has the best combination of picture qualities I've yet seen: Superb color, lowest noise I've seen, terrific sharpness and detail and amazing 5.1 sound. Add to this the great build quality of the SR12 and it makes for one superb cam.

Now, to be fair, given my resume of camcorders, I'll still take a look at the FH10 when it comes out. But it's got a tall mountain to climb in my book after having played with the SR12. I'm also not happy about losing the viewfinder with the Canon. I would never design a camera without a viewfinder...what were they thinking? But it is small and light.
i dont agree with this http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=125335
,my findings agree with you ken but i have not had much opertunity to realy use mine much yet.your views here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1004811&page=6your test was conclusive in the sr12s favour.my regret st present is that i can not edit avchd footage becouse of pc limitations.ps camcorderinfo.com can be biased

shardil

07-06-08, 05:45 PM

i bought my hdr-sr12 few days abck and i cant get to work the provided software "picture motion borwser".. after i installed it , computer restart the computer , nothing happens and computer slows down like hell and internet doesnt work and software icons doesnt work. Can somebody plesae help me , what i need to do in order to work this software.. im really frsutrated. THanks

Ken Ross

07-06-08, 06:51 PM

Ken, Did the factory restore bring back the smooth AVCHD playback?

Yes it did. No more CoreAVC on this computer! :)

Ken Ross

07-06-08, 06:53 PM

Wildcat_1

07-07-08, 01:30 AM

All

I have been in pro video for a number of years and was looking recently for a high quality 'home' use camera. After reading a number of reviews I settled on the SR-11 which I picked up this Friday (4th party lent itself as a good capture test). I have to say I am very impressed. I also got this for a steal at the local BB. Will post more as I edit (Canopus, Avid and FC).

Thanks

WC

flintyplus

07-07-08, 03:24 AM

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788544
i have not used mine to film anything like above has anyone had any experience of similar filming though.

talbain

07-07-08, 08:19 AM

i'm thinking about buying an internal bd recorder for my pc. my question is, when creating an avchd via pmb, will i be able to use and burn to a blu-ray disc? if so, will i have the full 25gb available?

so i gather from the lack of responses that no one has yet burned footage from the sr11/12 to a blu-ray?

Juventus

07-07-08, 10:00 AM

Just picked up a sr12 yesterday from BestBuy (in Canada)...they had it on for 1499.99cdn but I brought in an internet add for 1245.00 and they priced matched and beat it by 10%...$1220. Then I wnet down the street to FS...went back an forth a few times...Got the "70" battery and sony mini-hdmi cable (which was like $80) thrown in for free. I pushed my luck at FS asking for the '100' battery and that deal fell through...too bad.

Anyways, I have tried to go through most of this thread but it's huge, so I apologize if this has been asked:

I have a 60gb PS3, hp pavilion laptop with 2g ram, and a usb 500gb external hard drive.

I really don't care much for editing at this point... I just want to get my HD videos files (.mts or .m2ts or whatever they are..) from the sr12 hard drive to my external hard drive.

Is there a way of doing this directly? or do I have to first load the footage via PMB to my laptop then back it up to the external drive? I assume from there I can connect the external drive to the PS3 and watch from there.

While I'm thinking of it...can you transfer the video file from the sr12 to the PS3 hard drive directly?

Thanks in advance for any answers or pointing me in the right direction

cstelter

07-07-08, 12:48 PM

so i gather from the lack of responses that no one has yet burned footage from the sr11/12 to a blu-ray?

I'm trying to do this too. Got all exited when I found this thread, but then found that the first occurrence of M2TS was in the last post of 72 pages and was made today.

Anyway, if anyone has done this I'd love to read about it. So far all I've tried has failed. Here is my summary in case it helps anyone or in case anyone can spot a flaw in what I've tried.

1) I can play nice video on my HDTV if I
a) connect the camcorder to my HDPC outputting 1080i/720p to the TV
b) use the AVCHD player with
2) I can play nice video on my HDTV if I
a) Use Component or hdmi output directly to the TV
3) I can't play full screen HD by pointing AVCHD PLayer to the downloaded m2ts files. I can only play almost full screen by using PMB pointing at the m2ts files.
4) I purchased Cyberlink DVD Suite Ultra which says it can import AVCHD and using it I can import the m2ts files to mpeg 2 files. If I check the properties in PowerProducer, it claims 1920x1080 5.1 dolby. But if I try to play it, only about 5s is decent and then it pixelates/sticks/jerks. If I point at the converted mpeg file with powerDVD, I get the same problem. If I burn the video to blu-ray and play it with powerDVD, I get the same poor playback.
5) I've burned 2 DVD's using the PMB software and one played for a bit on my Sony DVD player, but then claimed disk was dirty. The 2nd one starte off saying the disk was dirty. Not sure if I had a bad media or not. I did these burns on an old 1GHz machine, so that may have had an impact. I have yet to test this feature out on my new HTPC which should take far less than 12 hours to burn 1hr of DVD.
6) I tried to burn AVCHD to blu-ray with PMB but it only seems to recognize 4.7GB media, not 25GB media in my HTPC. I want to try burning som AVCHD to DVD just to see how that works out.
7) I exported to mpeg2 from PMB but that seems to downgrade to 720x480. However that video plays nicely and can create video via powerProducer. But that's not what I'm trying to achieve.

I figure as a fallback, I can burn the m2ts files to blu-ray as data disks for storage until the software exists that can properly convert them to real blu-ray disks. That ~$20 per filling of the SR11 camcorder for archiving so I'm not real happy about it, but it may have to do.

I have a couple other 'out there' ideas I'm going to play with, but so far I figure I either need to pay more $$ than I've already paid for DVD Suite 6 ultra or get a patch for it.

For now I'm reading forums looking for solutions.

cstelter

07-07-08, 01:10 PM

OK, I just discovered that if I point powerDVD at my camcorder, or if I clone the camcorder directories to my hard disk, powerDVD can play them-- it wasn't quite as fluid as AVCHD player, but doable. Also I can directly import the files from the camcorder into powerProducer before they've been converted to m2ts.

Maybe this was covere somewhere in the previous 70 pages (I confess I didn't read it) but I did try some 'search thread' keywords and found no other references to m2ts, etc.

Anyway, maybe the camcorder itself can be used to prepare the blu-ray.. just copy what you want to the camcorder and then clone the camcorder's disk to a BD-R. I'm still too much of a newbie though to know if this is just intuitive or just stupid or somewhere in between.

david.perl

07-07-08, 04:45 PM

I am about to travel to Cusco and trek the Inca trail - much above 10,000 feet. After much research I purchased the SR 11 for the trip b4 realising the 10k limit on HDD. (I should have read this forum as well :rolleyes:) As per previous threads I’ve disconnected the HDD (4 screws and 5 mins) and can confirm the camera functions fine and records perfectly to memory card although there is a code in the viewfinder saying C13:02 - i suspect this means cant find HDD?

I fortunately purchased a light solid state HDD (64GB) laptop a while ago (before being aware of the altitude limit for HDD’s) so will be able to transfer files over to that as a temporary storage solution rather then purchase handfuls of memory sticks

Ungermann

07-07-08, 05:07 PM

WMP doesn't control the de-interlacing in this case, CoreAVC does. You can easily change your setting within the CoreAVC setting page they have available. You should be able to get very similar results between WMP and BSPlayer if you tweak the settings right.

BTW, saying that "WMP sucks" is your opinion... and not everybody agrees with you on that. :)
In my experience, WMP does not care about settings I have for the CoreAVC, it just does not deinterlace despite that it shows that it uses Core codec.

When I use BSPlayer everything is played back exactly in accordance to settings in the codec: "none" is shown as interlaced, "blend" is shown as ghostly soft 30fps video, "bob" is shown as sharp lifelike 60fps video. You can see screenshots for yourself (http://www.elurauser.com/articles/watching_interlaced_video.jsp).

"Weave" --> combining two fields into one frame, 30fps. Works great for PsF video (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_segmented_frame), but Sony AVCHD camcorders cannot shoot it, they can do only interlaced video.
http://www.elurauser.com/articles/deinterlace_weave_lq.jpg

"Bob" --> one field double-lined into a frame, 60fps
http://www.elurauser.com/articles/deinterlace_bob_lq.jpg

I can say it again: WMP sucks. It is slow to start, cumbersome to navigate, it feels heavy, it does not provide even half of options and information that BSPlayer or Media Player Classic provide. BTW, MPC is a good choice if you don't like BSPlayer for some reason, but still feels heavy compared to lightning fast startup of BSPlayer.

Wildcat_1

07-08-08, 02:23 AM

All

I noticed after my first day of shooting that the flash is no longer (seemingly) working on my SR11. the flash symbol with the cross through it appears on the LCD. When I go into the settings, anywhere that flash mode is shown is greyed out so I cannot select. I think I've gone through every setting (no manual exposure, no AE selection, no conversion lens etc) and still no joy. What am I doing wrong ? The only other option greyed out in the menu is demo mode.

Anyone else seen this issue or can help out ?

Is there a full reset option on the camera ?

Thanks

WC

Ken Steadman

07-08-08, 07:51 AM

Wildcat_1

07-08-08, 08:34 AM

ericjut

07-08-08, 08:58 AM

Use an external flash or not use a filter.

Ken Steadman

07-08-08, 09:43 AM

Ken

You are the man. Thanks so much for the quick response and for stopping me before I took this back for a replacement.

I have a UV filter on the front as protection. I cannot believe that was it. So are we all SOL by having even clear filters on for protection ? That seems kind of a near sighted issue on the build of these by Sony. I understand if you have a telephoto or wide lens on it that you would then select in the menu but with these turned off does it automatically still sense anything on the barrel ?

Anyway of getting around this ?

Thanks again

WC

Yes, but it requires using a breaking a second UV lens. I was wondering about the same thing awhile ago and figured it out, but it takes a real steady hand. You have to trick the camera into thinking there isnt a lens/filter on it. The camera has a button that is depressed when a filter is on the camera it's just on the inside of the filter threads right next to the flash.

Take a UV lens I used a tiffen becasue it was easy to remove the glass. Put a piece of tape over the camera flash and mark the limits of the filter detector tab put your lensless filter into the camera a couple of times and note where the lense stops once you are sure where the lense will finish turning mark the limits of the filter detector tab onto the lenseless filter ring.

VERY CAREFULLY take a dremel and cut out a notch at the marked area on the camera facing part of the filter; make sure you round off the threads so it won't jack up your camera threads. You have to be careful not to bend the ring you have to be real gentle with it. Before fitting onto camera make sure you haven't screwed up the threads on the inside so bad that another filter wot go on or off it. Screw the lenseless filter ring carefully onto the camera and make sure the filter detector pops up now screw in whatever filter you want to use.

!!!WARNING NOTE you must use a lenseless filter ring if you put a filter with a lense and cut out a notch for the detector you will NOT be able to remove the lense the tab will lock it on FOREVER. By using a filter ring without a lense you can remove the ring by pushing in the detector with a pin and slowly rotating the filter ring.!!!

****I am not liable if you ruin your camera so be careful and make sure the ring you use will work before ruining it or your camera.****

ericjut

07-08-08, 09:49 AM

Or you can just use an external flash. :) Sounds like a lot less trouble. :)

jasoraso

07-08-08, 03:09 PM

wickedny5

07-09-08, 02:36 AM

Hi,
Since Close-up Filters magnify the subject by factor of 1x,2x,4x etc and Telephoto Extenders multiply the focal length by factors of
2x,1.5x etc.
Don't both of these achieve the same effect ?

I realize that I may be confusing magnification as achieved by the close-up lens versus varying (increasing) focal length length as achieved by Telephoto extenders. But isn't increasing focal length equivalent to magnifying ? Or are they separate in optical terms ?If so, then in optical terms what's the exact difference ? What optical parameters change when a close-up filter is mounted or when a telephoto extender is mounted ?

In what situation would one use a close-up lens and in what situation
would one use a telephoto extender ?

any help is appreciated, thanks

netsmithuk

07-09-08, 05:42 AM

Hi All

I'm new here so first a question of etiquette. If i have a specific question about this camera am I better posting it in this thread or starting a new one? Its just sorting through all the posts in 2400+ post thread is hard work for me and future readers. I don't want to break the rules so I thought id ask first.

now I'm here heres a couple of quetions any way.

Basically I got my sony sr-11e last week, expecting much from it but so far I've been completely underwhelmed to the point I'm thinking of returning it. Previous to this I had a Sony PC110e and I was hoping this new camera would leap out at me with miles better image quality but its just not been the case in the tests so far.

Basically I'm going to be using it for SD in the large part (no HD TV yet, so bought it planning a head) and a large part of my work go online at 640 x 480 type resolutions.

The autofocus on the SR11 is just dismally slow. I shoot a lot of kids sports and Radio control models both of which are small and fast and irratic. The camcorder is constantly losing focus as the camera pans around and then can take an age to find it again.

Secondly there is no control over the shutter speed as far as I can see and no 'sports' mode, so I'm finding that my fast moving objects are mostly just blurs (I know about slowmo mode - which is fine but not usuable all the time)

Thirdly on a typical english grey day, all the colours are just washed out and the image is soft and not sharp at all (some could say thats how they look in real life)

Sorry this all sounds so negative, I really want to love the camera, so I'm hoping you can all tell me where I'm going wrong. If the answer is I'm not thats just the way the camera is - is there another camera I should be looking at, maybe something thats progressive scan and more designed for sports type work?

Hope you can help out

Chris

flintyplus

07-09-08, 05:54 AM

After reading your post, I took my SR11 outside today (first nice sunny 40 degree day) and did my own comparison shots of Auto white balance and outdoor white balance. I must be doing something wrong, because on each of my three tests (each with a different scene), I saw no difference. Now, in all fairness, I am still learning how to operate all the nuances of this cam, and I watched the footage via component cables to my 720P plasma. But my blue sky looked the same, the yellow house looked the same, the blue waters of the bay looked the same, the dark green pine trees looked the same, the tan grass looked the same, and so on. Fine details were harder to judge due to the component hookup, but even when looking carefully at a particular item in both shots, they looked exactly the same.
Perhaps my eyes are not as sharp, or I did something wrong on the camcorder when selecting the settings. Whatever the case is, I saw no change. And I am stumped as to why.

Respectfully,
Mike
I know this goes way back but tests i have done with my sr 12 which gives a great overall picture, The outdoor setting on mine gives a slightly more saturated colour,Ie its fine if all the filming is done using one setting but changing between the two would slightly spoil a film,The only time i would want to change my settings is if auto failed to lock on properly.

Ken Steadman

07-09-08, 10:53 PM

flintyplus

07-10-08, 02:26 AM

Someone elsewhere was asking about the sony wide and telephoto lenses for the SR11/12 and I made this quick comparison movie for him. Just in case anyone here would be interested in the comparison its at http://www.vimeo.com/1286001

The camera was 9' back from subject with the zoom set all the way to wide for all.
I have the VCL-HG2037Y tele lens which i bought for my hc-1 but although the filter threads are the same i have not tried it with my sr12 as it looks too big for the cam to handle without damage,Am i right in leaving this off the smaller cam.

JuiceRocket

07-10-08, 03:28 AM

Someone elsewhere was asking about the sony wide and telephoto lenses for the SR11/12 and I made this quick comparison movie for him. Just in case anyone here would be interested in the comparison its at http://www.vimeo.com/1286001

The camera was 9' back from subject with the zoom set all the way to wide for all.

That's a great video - I may have to pull the trigger on that wide-angle!

-JR

Ken Steadman

07-10-08, 07:42 AM

I have the VCL-HG2037Y tele lens which i bought for my hc-1 but although the filter threads are the same i have not tried it with my sr12 as it looks too big for the cam to handle without damage,Am i right in leaving this off the smaller cam.
Not sure, but my guess is it should work, personally I think even with the smaller C series lenses they are really heavy (for such a small cam) so I never use them handheld only on tripod.

Mike52

07-10-08, 08:01 AM

Hi All

The autofocus on the SR11 is just dismally slow. I shoot a lot of kids sports and Radio control models both of which are small and fast and irratic. The camcorder is constantly losing focus as the camera pans around and then can take an age to find it again.

Secondly there is no control over the shutter speed as far as I can see and no 'sports' mode, so I'm finding that my fast moving objects are mostly just blurs (I know about slowmo mode - which is fine but not usuable all the time)

Chris

Hi Chris. I agree with you on these two issues.
It seems the auto focus does a lot of wandering, trying to find whatever I am looking at. This is especially true when I try to capture a distant moving object of smaller size. And it is worse if I am shooting a relatively featureless scenic vista with any distance involved (like a sunset). The focus constantly goes in and out as it attempts to find something to focus on. Of course there may be a solution yet that I have not found (like an infinity setting, although I don't think that would work with a small moving object). I am still learning the SR11.
As to the shutter speed, I do miss that. Maybe there is a solution to that and maybe not. Again, I am still learning the camcorder.

But overall, for the price, it is a very good camcorder.

Mike

netsmithuk

07-10-08, 09:11 AM

Mike - glad it nots just me and my camera then :)

Unfortunately for me small fast moving objects, quick focus and shutter speed control are all major requirements for me :S thought I'd done my homework real well on this purchase, but I think I was seduced by the slow mo feature.

Not wanting to take anything away from this forum or thread but it would be great to find a forum to discuss just SR11/12 issues which was a bit more organised and active (no offence to anyone here) While I've been hunting for answers - on something as simeple as which of the scene modes is best for sport or what shutter speed does each mode use (niether of which I've found answers for) I've found some great websites and forums dedicated to discussings cannon equipment like the HV30 etc

Chris

ericjut

07-10-08, 10:21 AM

Ken Steadman

07-10-08, 11:24 AM

Lipsman

07-10-08, 11:32 AM

I had success authoring through iMovie my SR11 footage in full hd all the way to a BD RW disc and it played fine on my Samsung 1400 Blu Ray Player.

I exported the movie in full MPEG-4 1920x1080 to a single movie file and used Toast 9 Titanium with the Blu-Ray plugin (which was free when I ordered it a few months ago) and burned it using my external blu-ray burner.

First time through the burning process it puked, but after some Mac updates and a reboot it worked great! Not sure if I had use of full 25gb, but I would assume so!

Video looked GREAT by the way!

Mike52

07-10-08, 12:22 PM

I don't want to look defensive of the SR11/12 focus problems, but have you guys used other HD camcorders under the same conditions?

I've used HDV and AVCHD camcorders for over 4 years now, and in my experience, the SR11/12 isn't worse generally focus-wise than the HV10, HV20, HC1, FX1, UX5 or SR1 I've used over the years.

In low-light conditions, I experience somewhat worse focus hunting on my SR11 than average, but I haven't seen a consumer HD camcorder excel in that department. I also experienced similar focus hunting when zoomed in on a very constant backdrop (aka sky), but I've experienced this on other models too. To resolve those issues when it happens, I usually zoom out and zoom back in, which usually helps. If it's still hunts, I turn the AF off and manually focus myself, which you can easily do with the press of a button on the control knob on the SR11.

I have to add that every consumer HD camcorder I've tried (including the $3000 FX1) got their fair share of cases of not getting the focus spot on, though they do behave differently across brands. For example: Canon is usually faster to focus, but if it hunts, it will pulse faster too. I think it's a lot easier to spot a focus problem on HD though, so it's a lot easier to be critical about it than in the SD world, where one could have been out of focus and not knowing about it because of the crappy resolution.

I would suggest you try borrowing (or renting) another camcorder and trying it in the same conditions you experienced the focus issues with the SR11/12. Hey, if the other one is really working out better for you, then return the SR11/12 or sell it and switch. But I'm pretty sure you'll find out that focus is actually a hard thing to deal with in HD videography, just like it is for photography, and that it will require some manual focusing on your part from time to time.

My $0.02 anyway.

Yes, you are correct concerning other cams. However, I have used my friends FX7 with autofocus on and it seems less of a problem than what I have had with my SR11. Now having said that, I am well aware of the old axiom; you get what you pay for. Sub $1.2k consumer HD cams, while pretty good, can't and don't do everything well.
AS for manual focus, yes, I have tried that but as of now I am not all that proficient with it; especially when trying to follow and capture a relatively small fast moving object (a single jet at an air show). I know practice makes perfect, and in time I will get better, but for right now I wish the auto focus was more capable than I am.
What is especially maddening is trying to manually adjust focus and exposure at the same time on that small moving object as it gets closer and closer. I wish Sony had put less manual controls buried in the LCD screen and instead put them as convenient rings, etc. on the body of the cam. Even when the object is not moving much, having to dig through the menus in the LCD on a bright sunny day is a pain. Again, you get what you pay for.

Anyway, all in all, the SR11 is pretty good.

So Sony, please come out with a "prosumer cam" that is a little larger than the SR11, with more user-friendly manuel controls (rings, etc.) on the body of the cam, and with a greater optical zoom (come back with the 20X zoom please), for less than $2k, OK?

Mike

jasoraso

07-10-08, 01:46 PM

Yes, you are correct concerning other cams. However, I have used my friends FX7 with autofocus on and it seems less of a problem than what I have had with my SR11. Now having said that, I am well aware of the old axiom; you get what you pay for. Sub $1.2k consumer HD cams, while pretty good, can't and don't do everything well.
AS for manual focus, yes, I have tried that but as of now I am not all that proficient with it; especially when trying to follow and capture a relatively small fast moving object (a single jet at an air show). I know practice makes perfect, and in time I will get better, but for right now I wish the auto focus was more capable than I am.
What is especially maddening is trying to manually adjust focus and exposure at the same time on that small moving object as it gets closer and closer. I wish Sony had put less manual controls buried in the LCD screen and instead put them as convenient rings, etc. on the body of the cam. Even when the object is not moving much, having to dig through the menus in the LCD on a bright sunny day is a pain. Again, you get what you pay for.

Anyway, all in all, the SR11 is pretty good.

So Sony, please come out with a "prosumer cam" that is a little larger than the SR11, with more user-friendly manuel controls (rings, etc.) on the body of the cam, and with a greater optical zoom (come back with the 20X zoom please), for less than $2k, OK?

Mike

I agree that Sony could have put more "rings" etc on the camera, but the front control nob really is pretty useful. It can control 4 different functions, and you can quickly switch between the functions by holding the nob down - no touch screen necessary (this feature isn't very well documented).

Regarding optical zoom, I think Sony was trying to optimize the optical zoom size between the factors of the relatively large CMOS sensor and the desire to keep the camera/lens size small enough to be "pocketable".

I think what you are asking for is a mid-range camera $1500 to $2000 that had better manual controls, larger optical zoom, and a slightly larger form factor. I haven't seen that camera marketed by Sony or Canon, but hopefully in the future it will be.

zzzpt

07-10-08, 04:23 PM

In my experience, WMP does not care about settings I have for the CoreAVC, it just does not deinterlace despite that it shows that it uses Core codec.

When I use BSPlayer everything is played back exactly in accordance to settings in the codec: "none" is shown as interlaced, "blend" is shown as ghostly soft 30fps video, "bob" is shown as sharp lifelike 60fps video. You can see screenshots for yourself (http://www.elurauser.com/articles/watching_interlaced_video.jsp).

"Weave" --> combining two fields into one frame, 30fps. Works great for PsF video (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_segmented_frame), but Sony AVCHD camcorders cannot shoot it, they can do only interlaced video.
http://www.elurauser.com/articles/deinterlace_weave_lq.jpg

"Bob" --> one field double-lined into a frame, 60fps
http://www.elurauser.com/articles/deinterlace_bob_lq.jpg

I can say it again: WMP sucks. It is slow to start, cumbersome to navigate, it feels heavy, it does not provide even half of options and information that BSPlayer or Media Player Classic provide. BTW, MPC is a good choice if you don't like BSPlayer for some reason, but still feels heavy compared to lightning fast startup of BSPlayer.

Thanks good information
Will use Bob deinterlace, the problem is the CPU consuption :mad:
I get 20000ms of Jitter and increasing ...

netsmithuk

07-10-08, 04:58 PM

To be fair I haven't had the change to compare the camera with any other HD in real world tests. I'm just comparing it to my old reliable SD Sony DCR PC110. Can't say I ever really remeber that hunting around for focus, the new SR11 does it loads during very similar shots. Maybe its the technology and it something I have to live with - I'll give the manul focusing more a go this weekend, although as I said before as most of my use is small kids and toy cars I find it hard to believe its going to be a viable option for the majority of the shots I need. The knob on the front is better than the touch panel but trying to changing it while filming kids running around sounds like a very difficult job. (one I never felt the need to do once with my PC110)

As I said though thats only part of the problem, the other big problem is that even after trawling the web and posting in several forums I've still got no idea about shutter speeds, ie what 'scene mode' gives what speed or speed range, or maybe the speeds are not even linked to the scenes and it just makes a guess at what you want but I struggle to see how it can do that reliably for moving objects in shots where the camera is moving too.

I'm going to stick with it a bit and try and see what I can get out of it, if not what I want then, as you say I'll sell it on.

Cheers
Chris

flintyplus

07-10-08, 05:21 PM

Yes, you are correct concerning other cams. However, I have used my friends FX7 with autofocus on and it seems less of a problem than what I have had with my SR11. Now having said that, I am well aware of the old axiom; you get what you pay for. Sub $1.2k consumer HD cams, while pretty good, can't and don't do everything well.
AS for manual focus, yes, I have tried that but as of now I am not all that proficient with it; especially when trying to follow and capture a relatively small fast moving object (a single jet at an air show). I know practice makes perfect, and in time I will get better, but for right now I wish the auto focus was more capable than I am.
What is especially maddening is trying to manually adjust focus and exposure at the same time on that small moving object as it gets closer and closer. I wish Sony had put less manual controls buried in the LCD screen and instead put them as convenient rings, etc. on the body of the cam. Even when the object is not moving much, having to dig through the menus in the LCD on a bright sunny day is a pain. Again, you get what you pay for.

Anyway, all in all, the SR11 is pretty good.

So Sony, please come out with a "prosumer cam" that is a little larger than the SR11, with more user-friendly manuel controls (rings, etc.) on the body of the cam, and with a greater optical zoom (come back with the 20X zoom please), for less than $2k, OK?

Mike
having both the fx-7 and sr12 i agree the fx wins on the auto focus front as you would expect.The sr12 despite the craving for tiny cams these days is not as tiny as many models but anything smaller would be a huge no go for me.I totaly agree about a prosumer cam a little larger but having purchased the sr 12 the introduction of one would leave me in a quadrum.It is the smallest cam i have ever owned and i do find control difficult at times especialy the tiny pause button.but as has been said the auto focus is no worse than the hc-1 and picture wise i prefer the clarity and colour to my fx-7 unless my eyes are gone wayward.

Mike52

07-11-08, 07:08 AM

having both the fx-7 and sr12 i agree the fx wins on the auto focus front as you would expect.The sr12 despite the craving for tiny cams these days is not as tiny as many models but anything smaller would be a huge no go for me.I totaly agree about a prosumer cam a little larger but having purchased the sr 12 the introduction of one would leave me in a quadrum.It is the smallest cam i have ever owned and i do find control difficult at times especialy the tiny pause button.but as has been said the auto focus is no worse than the hc-1 and picture wise i prefer the clarity and colour to my fx-7 unless my eyes are gone wayward.

Flintyplus.
Do you really see the FX7 having a better picture? From what I have seen, it handles contrasts of light and dark within a picture better (I don't know what that would be called). On similar scenes shot with both the SR11 and the FX7, it seems the FX7 handles those light areas and dark areas better without washing out the lights so much nor over darkening the dark areas as much as what I see with the SR11. And that is with both cams being set at auto. I suppose it could be the filters within the FX7 that make the difference. If so, I wonder what I can do with the SR11 to duplicate that.

Mike

Ken Ross

07-11-08, 03:47 PM

Mike, Flinty is saying he prefers the PQ of his SR12 to his FX7. I do too. I've had both the FX1 and FX7 and I honestly feel the SR12 beats both. Sure in low light, the FX1 will win, but for color, low noise and overall PQ, I'll take the SR12 over either.

ptnaidu

07-11-08, 06:14 PM

May be a dumb question here, but can someone please tell me how to view my SR11 video clips in thumbnail mode on PS3? I thought I did a few days ago, I just can't remember to do it again. It is annoying to have to go through the whole set of clips to get to the last ones sometimes. I have SR11 connected directly to PS3 via mini USB cable.

flintyplus

07-12-08, 03:19 AM

Flintyplus.
Do you really see the FX7 having a better picture? From what I have seen, it handles contrasts of light and dark within a picture better (I don't know what that would be called). On similar scenes shot with both the SR11 and the FX7, it seems the FX7 handles those light areas and dark areas better without washing out the lights so much nor over darkening the dark areas as much as what I see with the SR11. And that is with both cams being set at auto. I suppose it could be the filters within the FX7 that make the difference. If so, I wonder what I can do with the SR11 to duplicate that.

Mike
Mike ken partly answered your question,the thing i like most picture wise with the sr12 over the fx-7 is the wild look ie fields trees everything natural the greens look more vibrant and natural,I find awb best but i have to be careful it is locked on correctly.The fx-7 is a great cam it may have a slightly sharper picture i have not done a direct test and for nature work which i like doing the fxs great lens would always make me use it.Regarding handling of light and dark i dont see a lot of difference and overal there is something about the sr picture i love,My tv is only a 43" pioneer but i think ken says his looks good on a 60" or so.sound i am not so impressed with and i am getting this adaptor so i can hopefully use my rode stereo with it.
http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=SSA

Ken Steadman

07-12-08, 09:56 AM

i am getting this adaptor so i can hopefully use my rode stereo with it.
http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=SSA

Flinty, not sure thats the right adaptor thats sounds like a mini to standard adaptor you want a AIS adaptor for SR12/11

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/468612-REG/Pearstone_SSA_Cold_Shoe_Adapter_for.html

I have one for each of mine. I will give this advice the adaptor fits best with the screw on the LCD side and teh cover slide up to lock it in. I had it fall out using the other side while attaching a shockmount but luckily my deadcat cushioned the fall of my mic.

flintyplus

07-12-08, 02:36 PM

Flinty, not sure thats the right adaptor thats sounds like a mini to standard adaptor you want a AIS adaptor for SR12/11

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/468612-REG/Pearstone_SSA_Cold_Shoe_Adapter_for.html

I have one for each of mine. I will give this advice the adaptor fits best with the screw on the LCD side and teh cover slide up to lock it in. I had it fall out using the other side while attaching a shockmount but luckily my deadcat cushioned the fall of my mic.
I hope it does its qouted for the hc-1 which i still have,the active interface shoes look indentical on the two cams,http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=SSA
if its wrong they will take it back but i am not sure i can purchase the one you show over here.

Mike52

07-12-08, 09:31 PM

Mike ken partly answered your question,the thing i like most picture wise with the sr12 over the fx-7 is the wild look ie fields trees everything natural the greens look more vibrant and natural,I find awb best but i have to be careful it is locked on correctly.The fx-7 is a great cam it may have a slightly sharper picture i have not done a direct test and for nature work which i like doing the fxs great lens would always make me use it.Regarding handling of light and dark i dont see a lot of difference and overal there is something about the sr picture i love,My tv is only a 43" pioneer but i think ken says his looks good on a 60" or so.sound i am not so impressed with and i am getting this adaptor so i can hopefully use my rode stereo with it.
http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=SSA

OK guys, I'll take your word for it. Until I can do a side by side with the FX7 and SR11, my hand picked jury (me) will still be out.
As for the sound, I have had mixed results. My biggest complaint is wind noise. Have not come up with an acceptable remedy yet. Suppose I may have to look into external mics.

Mike

flintyplus

07-13-08, 05:30 AM

OK guys, I'll take your word for it. Until I can do a side by side with the FX7 and SR11, my hand picked jury (me) will still be out.
As for the sound, I have had mixed results. My biggest complaint is wind noise. Have not come up with an acceptable remedy yet. Suppose I may have to look into external mics.

Mike
The two cams give a different picture look,The FX-7 is a much larger and more expesive prosumer cam i do not plan to get rid of my FX-7 for a while and as yet i do not have the pc requirments to edit avchd so my SR footage can only be saved to a external hd.
Regarding sound on the SR12 i agree wind noise is bad which is why i hope to use my rode mike with it.
Mike you picked the SR11 and know my views on my SR12, The FX-7 is no longer on general sale i just wonder why you have such an interest in it,You could always pick up a FX-7 somewhere they are still around over here and use both[I said nothing]cheers

talbain

07-13-08, 02:56 PM

dalemccl

07-13-08, 11:41 PM

Before ordering a Sony HDR-SR11, I wanted to view some sample AVCHD files recorded on this camcorder using a Panasonic BD-30 Blu-ray player with the latest firmware and a Bravia Hi-Def TV.

I downloaded some sample avchd files posted in this AVS forum topic. Some of the downloaded files were .mts and some were .m2ts. I used Nero 7 to burn the files to DVD+R single layer discs.

I first tried burning as a "DVD-ROM ISO" disc. I put the files at the disc's root level - no folders. When I tried to play the disc, the BD30 said it was an unsupported disc.

Then I read on the forum that the disc needs to be "UDF" so I burned a disc as "DVD-ROM (UDF) with the UDF level set to to 2.5. The BD30 again said it was an unsupported disc.

What am I doing wrong? Does the file(s) need to be in a special folder on the disc?

Should I be burning the .mts files or the .m2ts files?

Thanks.

Edit: I also tried putting the .mts and .m2ts files on an SD card. The BD30 brought up the thumbnails screen but they were blank. Thinking maybe it couldn't display the thumbnail but maybe could play the file, I hit play and the BD30 said no pictures (JPEG) were present. It seems to expect .jpgs on the SD card, even though the manual said it could play AVCHD files from an SD card.

Ungermann

07-14-08, 12:20 AM

What am I doing wrong? Does the file(s) need to be in a special folder on the disc?
AVCHD is not just media files, it is the whole directory structure. You are not surprised that your DVD player does not play bare MPG or VOB files, are you? See wiki for some info and diagrams: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

ericjut

07-14-08, 01:30 AM

did we ever get a definitive answer as to what PMB does when it is performing analysis on the sr11/12 files? i find this part of the import process really tedious. can i skip it? can i perform the analysis later? i'm basically doing no editing at this point and simply importing footage to burn to avchd discs

I've skipped it since I own the camcorder and haven't felt like I'm missing something. You can analyze it anytime afterward by right-clicking on the thumbnail of a file and select "Analyze Videos".

I think the analysis phase after import is to break sub-scenes from each file, and it's not really needed for basic viewing and authoring of DVD and AVCHD disks.

August1991

07-14-08, 01:53 AM

I think the analysis phase after import is to break sub-scenes from each file, and it's not really needed for basic viewing and authoring of DVD and AVCHD disks.Vegas also analyzes when importing any media file too. This determines "peaks" (whatever they are) and seems to be part of the compression/decompression process.

I don't know if this is exclusive to Sony or a generic part of the AVCHD file structure.

ericjut

07-14-08, 02:48 AM

Hmm... so it could be a pass 1 of a two-pass VBR encoding in this case?

Also, it's worth noting that v1 of PMB wasn't doing that step.

spoleweski

07-14-08, 05:12 AM

does anyone know how to put edited files back onto the camera? i have just edited some footage and outputted it in mt2s format using vegas but i cant seem to be able to put it back on the camera with pmb, any ideas?

EDIT: got it to work by accident, who would have thought something so simple could be so complicated.

Mike52

07-14-08, 06:46 AM

The two cams give a different picture look,The FX-7 is a much larger and more expesive prosumer cam i do not plan to get rid of my FX-7 for a while and as yet i do not have the pc requirments to edit avchd so my SR footage can only be saved to a external hd.
Regarding sound on the SR12 i agree wind noise is bad which is why i hope to use my rode mike with it.
Mike you picked the SR11 and know my views on my SR12, The FX-7 is no longer on general sale i just wonder why you have such an interest in it,You could always pick up a FX-7 somewhere they are still around over here and use both[I said nothing]cheers

As for my attraction to the FX7, this was the first HD cam I had ever been able to get my hands on and see actual footage from. To say the least, compared to my 9 year old DV cam, it performed wonderfully. So because of that, it became my benchmark when comparing other HD cams. Unfortunately, it wasn't mine and before I could save even half of what a new one would cost me, Sony stopped production. Buying a refurbished FX7 seems risky to me and they are still expensive. Used ones I am still leary of. Besides, I would have to start my camcorder savings fund all over again and it would take time to accumulate enough.
I picked the SR11 for a couple of reasons. First, it seemed like a very good cam to get with a number of features I was looking for. Second, I really wanted an HD cam before this past spring when I was scheduled to go on a couple of shoots. Third, I could afford the SR11. After having it now for four months, for the most part I really like it with only a couple of negatives and many plusses.
Some things I would add to the SR11, would be an external mike, a telephoto lens, and a polarizing filter. I could also use a very large external hard drive to store (archive) video files from the cam, as well as some portable storage device when traveling.

Mike

ericjut

07-14-08, 09:51 AM

dalemccl

07-14-08, 10:12 AM

AVCHD is not just media files, it is the whole directory structure. You are not surprised that your DVD player does not play bare MPG or VOB files, are you? See wiki for some info and diagrams: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

Thanks for the link. I know about the structure and requirements for regular DVD. I wasn't sure about AVCHD.

flintyplus

07-14-08, 11:46 AM

August1991

07-14-08, 03:56 PM

Today i used my SR12 with the rode stereo mike great sound and pictures now thanks to the adaptor http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=SSA .The muff needed slight trimming at the bottom, only a fraction to stop the slightest sign of hairs at the top of the picture.There is little difference in the size of the mike and cam.Does this reduce wind noise?

Some things I would add to the SR11, would be an external mike, a telephoto lens, and a polarizing filter. I could also use a very large external hard drive to store (archive) video files from the cam, as well as some portable storage device when traveling.I too have a wishlist. I want a wideangle lens and a cheap, simple steadicam system. I want a UV/polarizing filter to protect the lens. (I use my laptop to download and burn discs.) I'm looking for a simple way to deal with wind noise and a bluetooth mic would be fun.

After about two months of use, the downside of the SR11 so far?

It's a bit bulky although thankfully, it doesn't attract attention and people ignore it. At most, it looks like a generic, boring camera. It needs a wide angle. The AVCHD files are a hassle and I really dislike the interlacing. The autofocus requires attention in lowlight.

My general impression is that once I understand how it works, I'm impressed with the design. Alot of thought went into this device.

spoleweski

07-14-08, 05:26 PM

Couldn't you just use the right-click "Export to -> Handycam" in PMB?

Nope, not with an edited file, PMB wouldn't recognize it and i tried to import it but the only way you can do so is if the file is on the handycam or a disc. PMB creates .modd files so that the information for the original m2ts files can be recognized in pmb. The only way you can create one of those modd files is to import the file from the camera. I had to first copy the edited file to the camera, then go to tools > update database in pmb and it recognized the m2ts file on the camera. It then created the modd file and was able to be read with pmb. So then I was able to export it back to the handycam and the file was now able to be played back on the camera.

flintyplus

07-15-08, 03:03 AM

Does this reduce wind noise?

I too have a wishlist. I want a wideangle lens and a cheap, simple steadicam system. I want a UV/polarizing filter to protect the lens. (I use my laptop to download and burn discs.) I'm looking for a simple way to deal with wind noise and a bluetooth mic would be fun.

After about two months of use, the downside of the SR11 so far?

It's a bit bulky although thankfully, it doesn't attract attention and people ignore it. At most, it looks like a generic, boring camera. It needs a wide angle. The AVCHD files are a hassle and I really dislike the interlacing. The autofocus requires attention in lowlight.

My general impression is that once I understand how it works, I'm impressed with the design. Alot of thought went into this device.

Yes the rode stereo mike is a large fairly expensive mike,The mike is almost as large as the cam that does not worry me but it could some but for me sound is as important as pq[almost]anyway.
Mike have you the pc power to edit your footage.

Mike52

07-15-08, 07:03 AM

Flinty, if it is me you are asking about computing power to edit footage shot with my SR11, I'll tell you what I have.

My computer is a quad core Q6600 2.4 GHZ processor with 2 GB of RAM with a ATI Radeon 2600 512 MB HD video card.
I just got Pinnacle 12 installed yesterday and will give it a try later today, so I will report back on how that goes. I am planning on getting two more GB of RAM within the next two weeks, so whatever happens now, will improve shortly.

My expanded list of "wants": Telephoto lens for SR11, external mike, polarizing filter, BR player, BR burner, new updated receiver for my HT setup, and the winning lottery ticket so I can pay for this stuff.:)

Mike

tksuther

07-15-08, 07:53 AM

I did a search and couldn't really find the (I think simple) answer to this. But if this is a repeat question on this forum............sorry! Can I simply copy Hi-Def recordings to a DVD-R without special software? I have Vista Home Premium x64 with a DVDRW w/Lightscribe, but it's NOT Blu-Ray. If this can be done, will I be able to view the DVD in Hi-Def? I have a 40" Hi-Def Sony Bravia LCD. I understand if I want to edit the footage I need a program like ULead, Pinnacle, etc. I just want to copy to a DVD in Hi-Def and be able to view it in Hi-Def on my computer and my TV. Thanks!

Ken Steadman

07-15-08, 08:37 AM

Ungermann

07-15-08, 09:02 AM

tksuther

07-15-08, 09:42 AM

It depends on your Bluray Player/PS3

I do not have a BluRay player so can I still view the DVD in Hi-Def?

tksuther

07-15-08, 09:51 AM

I backup my 4GB cards onto DVDs all the time (http://www.elurauser.com/articles/avchd_to_bluray.jsp). You can use software that comes with the camcorder to create a simple AVCHD disk with only the scenes that you need.

I have x64 Vista and apparently the Sony-supplied software does not support x64.

Wannago

07-15-08, 10:12 AM

I have x64 Vista and apparently the Sony-supplied software does not support x64.

All the supplied software works just fine on my X64 Vista desktop.

ericjut

07-15-08, 10:14 AM

[QUOTE=August1991;14287970]I too have a wishlist. I want a wideangle lens and a cheap, simple steadicam system. I want a UV/polarizing filter to protect the lens. (I use my laptop to download and burn discs.) I'm looking for a simple way to deal with wind noise and a bluetooth mic would be fun./QUOTE]

For WA, I suggest Raynox 6600Pro (the more I use my 5050Pro, the more I'm annoyed at the softness at the corners and the barrel effect.

Cheap Steadicam: MMC Hague (http://www.cameragrip.co.uk/acatalog/info_263.html). Worth every penny, even the steep shipping costs.

UV: You should be able to find a cheap one at B&H. Any will do.

Polarizer: I had one for my FX1 and after trying to use it once, I gave up. Using a polarizer in photography is very different than in videography. For videography, I felt I had to go and constantly adjust it during shooting to get the effect I wanted. It may work if you have time to prepare shooting for every scene, but for point and shoot, it didn't work for me. Maybe others have better experiences with them, but I couldn't recommend one based on my experience.

Blue Tooth: I own the Sony one. Works pretty well, but is a little bulky (both parts). Two modes: 2ch stereo or takes up center channel. The latter may be very interesting for weddings and such other venues. With the other mode, you should be able to control wind a little more, but you lose the 5.1. Just for wind control, you might be better off getting a nicer external mic that you can mod with foam/fur yourself.

tksuther

07-15-08, 10:17 AM

All the supplied software works just fine on my X64 Vista desktop.

Really? That's great news! I haven't even tried to install it because Sony claims it is not compatible. Have you used many of the options offered - burn, edit, etc.?

Wannago

07-15-08, 10:36 AM

Really? That's great news! I haven't even tried to install it because Sony claims it is not compatible. Have you used many of the options offered - burn, edit, etc.?

I've used PMB to burn all 3 options of discs (Data creation, DVD-Creation, and AVCHD Creation). That's about it so far, other than importing video and stillls to my PC. I haven't tried to edit with PMB, as I have a variety of other applications for editing.

So far, PMB has done everything I have asked of it.

flintyplus

07-15-08, 11:42 AM

Ken Steadman

07-15-08, 12:17 PM

I do not have a BluRay player so can I still view the DVD in Hi-Def?

No, you can burn HD files onto a DVD but you need something that will read the files (Blurayplayer/PS3) A normal DVD player will not read the HD format files; DVD is a total different file format.

You can still hook your Camera directly into an HDTV and play it that way though.

tksuther

07-15-08, 12:25 PM

No, you can burn HD files onto a DVD but you need something that will read the files (Blurayplayer/PS3) A normal DVD player will not read the HD format files; DVD is a total different file format.

You can still hook your Camera directly into an HDTV and play it that way though.

Okay thanks a lot for the info. This is all new to me!

JuiceRocket

07-15-08, 12:26 PM

Troy LaMont

07-15-08, 01:56 PM

Can anyone recommend a good cheap lense? I live on the beach and would like to shoot some surfers, volleyball, sunrises and sunsets, but I'm nervous of the ocean spray that is constantly kicked up.

Thanks!

The PERFECT (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665293381&tab=Features) solution!

:D

Troy

JuiceRocket

07-15-08, 04:54 PM

The PERFECT (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665293381&tab=Features) solution!

:D

Troy

lol, thanks Troy! I'm looking for something a little cheaper and just a lense to cover the front of the camera. I'll probably have it on a tripod and just let it run, so I don't want all that stick sea salt to get on the lense.

I see lenses on the Sony site, but they must be sold out. Any idea where else I can find basic lenses for the SR11?

-JR

Ken Ross

07-15-08, 06:22 PM

Having watched some downloaded hf10 footage today on another site i must say it is impressive,as good as the SR12 to me but the lack of a viewfinder and the fact that its smaller than the sr12 would would stop me choosing it over the sony.

You might change your mind Flinty if you saw some of the whacky AWB colors you sometimes get with the HF10. :)

ericjut

07-16-08, 01:37 AM

lol, thanks Troy! I'm looking for something a little cheaper and just a lense to cover the front of the camera. I'll probably have it on a tripod and just let it run, so I don't want all that stick sea salt to get on the lense.

I see lenses on the Sony site, but they must be sold out. Any idea where else I can find basic lenses for the SR11?

-JR

I really second Troy on his suggestion on the underwater encasing for beach usage. Sand, salty air and salty water are deadly for small electronic equipment. Only a little grain of sand a the wrong place can screw up a motorized part. It just takes somebody kicking some sand too high or you dropping it to render your $1000 camcorder useless.

Also, you can get it for much cheaper than MSRP. I personally got mine from etronics ($158 - $25 by using eBillMe = $133). I don't know about you, but that feels like pretty cheap to ensure that nothing goes wrong with a camcorder when shooting at the beach.

I just recently had a chance to used it at the beach, so I might as well let you guy what I thought of it while I'm here. :)

Let me first say that I didn't have the chance to submerge the unit yet (planning to very soon and will report back). Also, I have some experience with that kind of technology, as I own a camcorder underwater bag (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400208-REG/Aquapac_AQUA465_Waterproof_Case_for_Barrel.html), which I used on multiple occasions snorkling and at the pool.

1. You have external buttons for power, zoom in, zoom out, mode (3), start/stop recording and take a picture. The modes are video, photo and playback, but unfortunately I haven't found the way to start a playback from those buttons, so that mode is more or less useless. The zoom buttons take some use to, as it's easy to overdo it and throttle full speed in or out, which is certainly not what the user intends. But after a few tries, I was able to manage doing slow zoom ins and outs. Overall, the control is amazing when compared to using the bag, where it was always a battle to just turn on the camcorder.

2. There's an external microphone, which is only stereo, but is invaluable when compared to using a bag. With the latter, every little move results in major scratching noises and the sound is muffled quite a bit. And the bag gets a lot worse when underwater. Note that the external microphone seems to also pick up wind noise about as bad as with the camera alone, so no gain in that department. I can't say how it sounds underwater yet, but it can't be as bad as the bag. :)

3. Size: Sadly, Sony worked really hard to support a multitude of camcorders with that encasing, so it's a little big for the SR11. That makes it a little bulky to handle when compared to just the camera alone. Because of that, I found that it's a little harder to keep the camera steady, but the OIS still seems to work well and I was able to handle the camcorder with one hand, something I have not been able to do with the bag. One more thing to say about it: you won't be able to use any lens while in the encasing. While there's plenty of space on each side of the camcorder, there's very little space at the front or back of the unit. Finally, I'm wondering how buoyant the encasing will be with all this extra air in it. I bet that I may have to add some extra weight inside it (not a big deal).

4. Mirror for the LCD: Near trick to let users see their LCD. Unfortunately, there's a little bit of ghosting while watching from the outside and high sunlight greatly affects viewing... but that's also true with the LCD usage alone. The difference is that it's a lot harder to use the viewfinder with the enclosure. Now I know how HF100 users feels like. :D But peeves aside, this makes a huge difference in usability compared to the bag, where I had no choice but to use the viewfinder, which was a pain to use in this case.

5. No lens protector. That's a big miss from Sony in my book. This thing is built of solid plastic, which brings the concern that a scratch at the front would render it useless. Even a cheap rubber cap would have been better than nothing (which I may try to find). Note that the bag isn't any better in that department.

Anyways. I seem to have been overly critical about it in this post, but it was actually really nice to use with the SR11 and I'm planning to use it whenever I feel that the environment might be risky for my camcorder (dirty, sandy, wet, etc). I'm looking forward to try it underwater to see how it performs, but so far, I'm much happier with that encasing than with my bag, which I will most probably never use again. And for the price I paid, I highly recommend it to any SR11/12 users that are planning to use their camcorder at the beach, if it's only to protect it against the salty air and the sand.

flintyplus

07-16-08, 03:18 AM

You might change your mind Flinty if you saw some of the whacky AWB colors you sometimes get with the HF10. :)

Dont get Wrong ken I like the pq of the SR12 a lot and would not change it but the colour and sharpness of the clip i watched was impressive and
not as poor as you gave it here.Do you think you had a slightly dud HF10 or does the this cam need to be used with a manual white balance,If so this is a pain compared to a realy good auto like the SR12s.

ole99

07-16-08, 11:36 AM

Having a hard time finding a microphone i like to sr11/12.
If it wasn´t for the size i would buy a rode videomic and the stereomic, but they are simply to big for what i need now.
I have got the permision to film at a music festival.
They have their own crew doing the official documentary about the festival, and no one more have gotten permision to shot, but I got permision to shot if I follow certain rules , the most impoted rule is to keeping a low profile.
So need to use a smale camcorder and the sr-11 is perfect for this, but if putting a big mic like the rode ones on it, coulde posible get me in trouble, so need a smaller set up.
Have been looking at sony ms908 which seams to be a great mic.
There is a test of mics at vimeo and after listing to it i think the ms908 could be the mic that fits my prefrence, not to big and good for both music and interviews.

Have anybody used it? and espesialy with sr11/12?

One thing thats bother me is it dosn´t come with a shock mount !!!

Have anybody any other suggestions ???

ole99

07-16-08, 01:00 PM

sorry double post

ewal

07-16-08, 01:14 PM

Is anyone actually editing the AVCHD files, or are you guys all putting them into MPEG-2 or some intermediate? I tried following the TMPGEnc Xpress AVCHD->MPEG-2 tutorial on Vimeo, but for some reason TMPGEnc took 22 minutes to convert a 40 second clip (and I have a very fast PC)...!!?

If anyone is able to share their workflow I'd really appreciate it. Basically I'm looking for the best way to get the AVCHD (.mts) files into a lossless MPEG-2 (HDV) for editing in Premiere.

Hello canuck88,

First, MPEG2 is not lossless (http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=Category:Lossless_Video_Codecs), second, forget about paying for software that does not really work (at least not for me) and get some free stuff to experiment first, which is what I am currently doing because I have not yet found the perfect balance between file size and good quality.

To start out I would recommend:

SUPER (http://www.erightsoft.net/SUPER.html) Download (http://www.erightsoft.net/SUPER.html#Dnload)

Suggested settings for what you asked above:

For Output container, select mpg (MPEG2)
For Output Video Codec, select MPEG-II
For Audio select AC3

Select "ffmpeg" and "Use Direct Show"
Video scale select "1.33", so it is converted to 1440x1080 (HDV native)
Aspect 16:9 and frame/sec to 29.97
Bitrate to 7000
Audio Default

natemu06

07-16-08, 01:19 PM

Just ordered a new SR11 and I am looking at the best way of storing the footage. I really have no interest in editing the video, more in just capturing it of my 7 month old son. Aside from price, would burning blu rays be a good option? I have a PS3 and I am guessing that would play anything I burn but I am unsure about my computer. I have a dual core laptop which isn't all that great but will an external blu ray burner work with it or do I need a PC (doing no editing)?

Ken Steadman

07-16-08, 02:04 PM

Ken Ross

07-16-08, 07:02 PM

Dont get Wrong ken I like the pq of the SR12 a lot and would not change it but the colour and sharpness of the clip i watched was impressive and not not as poor as you gave it here.Do you think you had a slightly dud HF10 or does the this cam need to be used with a manual white balance,If so this is a pain compared to a realy good auto like the SR12s.

No Flinty, I don't think there was anything wrong with the HF10 I had. I've seen too many clips from other HF10/100s that lead to me believe the model I had was typical. I've seen blown highlights and color that leaned toward the blue...oh, and there was that frequent magenta sky that's typical of so many Canon cams (including my HV20 and prior HV10).

Interestingly I tried MWB on my HF10 and that did very little to improve upon the colors. To be honest, even if it did improve them substantially, I would not have appreciated that with a cam that should always be available for quick, on-the-fly shots. Too many times we don't have the time to start adjusting colors manually with a cam used for those 'once in a lifetime shots'.

August1991

07-16-08, 07:11 PM

For WA, I suggest Raynox 6600Pro (the more I use my 5050Pro, the more I'm annoyed at the softness at the corners and the barrel effect.

Cheap Steadicam: MMC Hague (http://www.cameragrip.co.uk/acatalog/info_263.html). Worth every penny, even the steep shipping costs.

UV: You should be able to find a cheap one at B&H. Any will do.

Polarizer: I had one for my FX1 and after trying to use it once, I gave up.Eric, I want to thank you for these points of advice.

First, my SR11 really needs a Wide Angle lens and you confirmed my Internet searches on Raynox. Which one? (I once had a 24mm Canon for my SLR and I loved it. Little distortion, big picture.)

Second, the Hague gimble "steadicam" - definite maybe. I'm still looking for a simple stabilizer. I'm wondering whether I can do better on my own, with a friend who knows gyroscopes.

Third, UV/Polarizer. As a still photographer, I had a hate/love affair with polarizers. Eric, thanks for reminding me of this and making me understand that moving photograph is not aways like still photography. (When I'm rich and famous, I'll get a focus-puller and a guy to turn the polarizer. For the moment, I'm only looking for a 38mm UV protective filter.)

flintyplus

07-17-08, 03:17 AM

No Flinty, I don't think there was anything wrong with the HF10 I had. I've seen too many clips from other HF10/100s that lead to me believe the model I had was typical. I've seen blown highlights and color that leaned toward the blue...oh, and there was that frequent magenta sky that's typical of so many Canon cams (including my HV20 and prior HV10).

Interestingly I tried MWB on my HF10 and that did very little to improve upon the colors. To be honest, even if it did improve them substantially, I would not have appreciated that with a cam that should always be available for quick, on-the-fly shots. Too many times we don't have the time to start adjusting colors manually with a cam used for those 'once in a lifetime shots'.
Thanks ken nice to hear as like you i like to use the machines that give the best current pq.Perhaps the shots i saw were under special suitable conditions for the canon they were indoors and looked very sharp.
By the way i am finding it difficult to keep the the lcd screen on my SR12 clean the stuff i use on my TVs, PC monitors, and other cams will not seem to work with this cam and it is smeary,It could be a different type of glass?i suppose.

Tomsonman

07-17-08, 06:41 AM

By the way i am finding it difficult to keep the the lcd screen on my SR12 clean the stuff i use on my TVs, PC monitors, and other cams will not seem to work with this cam and it is smeary,It could be a different type of glass?i suppose.

I'm using http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-SVC2540-10-Plasma-Cleaner/dp/B000M1V8TO and it works like a charm. :)

natemu06

07-17-08, 07:49 AM

I think it would be alot easier and cheaper to buy an external USB drive and just plug that into the PS3 when you want to watch them

My question is then would the video quality suffer if you are then watching it over USB?

hiworld1

07-17-08, 09:48 AM

flintyplus

07-17-08, 01:00 PM

I don't think video quality will suffer anyting. I have same setup SR11, PS3 and External USB drive. I always watch my footage via PS3 and it looks great.. No difference if i play AVCHD file from external drive, camcorder or natvie from PS3 internal hard drive.

BTW its a great camera.

Do you encode all the mts files into one , then play the file through ps3 using a external drive.
I have not been able to play mts files stored on my ps3 properly they play singularly bit of a pain having to press play every few seconds ,
What file format do you have the external drive formated with so the ps3 will recognise it FAT FAT32 HFS+ ???

flintyplus

07-17-08, 02:05 PM

I'm using http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-SVC2540-10-Plasma-Cleaner/dp/B000M1V8TO and it works like a charm. :)
I will try it thanks a lot.

dch6416

07-17-08, 04:59 PM

Hi,

I did not know this thread was here. I bought this cam back in May from Dell.
I read a few pages and read some interesting questions that I did not see answered, so if it was, my apologies.

I also have a Sony 3000W 52".

The hdmi cable and xy color space is a huge improvement over the component out of the camera. My Motorola DVR seems to output the component as good as the hdmi from it, so I suspect the sr12 component output just sucks.

You can watch the videos off your pc with powerdvd 7 or plug your pc into the tv and watch it that way.

This is important:
Although when plugged into my tv the display says 1080i, the picture is actually 1080p. The tv only displays 1080p and will do anything it needs to do to convert an incoming signal. Because it is receiving 1080i @ 60 fields a second, it merely puts them back together to create a 1080p picture. There is no actual conversion that takes place. You are watching a perfectly digital unionized frame of the two fields from the interlaced signal. The camera produces an image that is higher than 1080p@24 frames per second. It is doing 1080i@60 fields per second which equals 1080p@30 frames per second, if merged correctly. It is smoother video, but does take up an extra 5 to 6 frames more a second (depending on pal or ntsc). Now of course, if the fields are not merged properly it looks like 1/2 that, but that does not happen, as all the timing for the data is there. It is the simplest thing that can be done for having a fixed 1080P display display it. Both fields are read and displayed at the same time. Your media is digitally recorded in 1080i@60 fields per second, but displayed by any decent display device (computers included in this with powerdvd7) at 1080p @ 30 frames per second. I have proven this to myself with a test disk on my pc with 1080 lines (alternating black and white).

I must note that the data rate maxs out, so if you are only displaying 24 "frames" a second at a maximum bitrate, the frames would have more more bits to work with. This would result in a clearer frame, but lack the smoothness of 30 frames per second. The cameras max I believe is 16megabit. This sucks, given the internal drive can handle higher rates.

Bottom line, this camera produces a picture that blows away the very best hddvd and bluray encodings. I am sure they are capable of the same, but the conversions of the original film and digital content from high end hd digital cameras that are then put on consumer hddvd and bluray are nothing close to the video image quality this camera puts out right out of the box.

The still pictures are fair, but not nearly the equivalent to a dedicated still camera at that resolution.

dalemccl

07-17-08, 05:03 PM

JuiceRocket

07-17-08, 05:39 PM

eric, thanks for the detailed review of the underwater case. It looks like I'll be picking one up, since I do plan to do a good deal of shooting on beaches. I don't plan to take any water shots, but hey, if I can it'd be great!

Thanks again,

-JR

dch6416

07-17-08, 05:53 PM

Thank you too Eric! I was needing one of those for trip planned to Yosemite.

Ken Ross

07-17-08, 06:31 PM

By the way i am finding it difficult to keep the the lcd screen on my SR12 clean the stuff i use on my TVs, PC monitors, and other cams will not seem to work with this cam and it is smeary,It could be a different type of glass?i suppose.

Flinty, use a microfiber cloth. I breath on the LCD and then wipe with the microfiber cloth. It comes out spotless very quickly! :)

aridan

07-17-08, 07:06 PM

Just got my SR12 the other day and boy am I impressed. The picture quality, and even better - the sound quality are mind blowing.

Now here is the deal - I'm a total newb... I never owned a camcorder before, let alone an HD one. I'm familiar with how forums work and I understand that the info I'm looking has more than likely been beaten to death before. Therefore, I will not bother asking stupid questions, but must ask one nevertheless....

I don't have a Blue-Ray burner, nor a deck player yet. I hope to get both by year end. In the mean time however, I would like to convert the M2TS files I download from the camcorder to something I can share with family and friends (avi, mpeg, wmv, etc.).

Can someone just point me to a website with a tutorial and/or an application that can do something like that? According to the self research I've done so far, M2TS files cannot be converted to mpeg or avi - but then I looked at the dates of those posts and they were from 2007... so i'm not sure how valid they are for today.

So please... I have a 7 months old daughter at home which I've captured on this magnificent camera but would like to burn a plain CD with avi movies to send to my parents who live abroad so they can see their granddaughter. :)

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

TIA. :)

ericjut

07-17-08, 07:20 PM

aridan

07-17-08, 07:36 PM

There are many tools (made by Pinnacle, ULead, Nero, Sony, etc) that will let you transcode to varied formats.

[Warning: shameless plug] You can also look at this blog entry on how to use AVCHD files with Microsoft Expression Encoder:
http://blogs.msdn.com/expressionencoder/archive/2008/06/10/8590639.aspx

Thanks!

WAIT! Don't tell me I'm the first one who just realized that: You can convert M2TS to WMV and/or MPEG-2 using the Picture and Motion Browser app that came with the camcorder? You can edit the files too!

Is there something I'm not aware of? Why do people bother with other apps when this simple thing which comes with the camera seems to get the job done?.... :confused: I just converted an M2TS file to MPEG-2 and it plays in WMP without any problems... :confused::)

ericjut

07-17-08, 09:01 PM

Thanks!

WAIT! Don't tell me I'm the first one who just realized that: You can convert M2TS to WMV and/or MPEG-2 using the Picture and Motion Browser app that came with the camcorder? You can edit the files too!

Is there something I'm not aware of? Why do people bother with other apps when this simple thing which comes with the camera seems to get the job done?.... :confused: I just converted an M2TS file to MPEG-2 and it plays in WMP without any problems... :confused::)

Because the definition of "editing" usually involves a lot more than just converting. Users here want to fix up the video and audio, add effects, transitions, titles, menus, etc. They also want more choices than the 3-4 profiles that PMB supports.

That being said, I personally use PMB to create quick DVDs and AVCHD disks, just because it's brain-dead simple and quick. When I want to do high quality transcoding, I use Expression Encoder. And when I want to do any real editing, I use Pinnacle Studio.

If your editing needs are humble, PMB will probably do most of what you need and you don't need to bother with anything else. Also note that PMB comes with DShow codecs that you can register to playback M2TS files in WMP without transcoding (you'll need to get yourself a AC-3 filter, but that's not too hard to do). Check the blog I pointed you for instructions on how to register those filters.

dennis052

07-17-08, 10:22 PM

I just back from a Disneyland trip with my two sons, 1 yr and 5 yr old. It is a pain to carry both of my miniDV PC101 camcorder and a Canon point&shoot, and to push stroller with bunch of baby's stuffs. My wife suggested me to look for a camcorder that has very good still picture capability so all in one unit. I am thinking to buy SR12 as it has the best still photo on paper, 5MP interlace to 10MP.

Can you guys tell me how good is the photo print quality out of this camcorder? Is it comparable to most 5 to 8 MP point & shoot camera on the market? I tried one in Fry's electronic but found the picture has a lot of noise, fuzzy image if shot object further away. Too bad I cannot try outside the store as day light may make the difference. Please comment.

dalemccl

07-17-08, 11:48 PM

I just received my SR11. Video shot in good light looks good. Low-light clips don't look good. Well, they look OK on the camcorder's small LCD but when it is connected to my 52" Sony Bravia 1080p LCD TV via HDMI, the noise is very obvious.

I shot at 1920x1080 with everything set to "'auto". It was toward the end of twi-light in a large shopping center (not an in-door mall) - the sky was dark blue, not yet black. The shopping center had areas of bright light (floodlit buildings and colorful lighted signs.) And it had areas of low light, including the sky, some trees, and areas of buildings that were not well lit.

The bright areas of the footage, such as the lighted signs, look pretty good but the darker areas are extremely noisy. It reminded me of a point-and- shoot still camera set to high ISO's.

Are there SR-11 settings or techniques that can minimize the noise when shooting a scene with a wide dynamic range of lighting?

Or is there software to reduce the noise (something equivalent to Noise Ninja or Noiseware for digital still photos)?

I want low noise in this type of lighting because I want to shoot the Vegas strip at night when I am there on vacation in Sept. Also want to shoot grandkids' concerts and stage plays which will have a wide range of lighting.

To add to my original post, I think I see what is happening here. If the scene being shot has prominant bright lights, such as when a bright sign is in the frame, there is less noise in the dark areas. But when I pan to a darker area where much of the frame is dark with only a few small areas of lights, the camcorder auto exposure function seems to be gaining up the picture to get good exposure - sort of like a still camera trying to exposure to 18% grey. This increases the noise.

The reason I think this is happening is because the resulting video for these dark areas is quite a bit brighter than what I actually saw with my eyes. When the scene is brighter to begin with (like with the bright signs), the video's brightness is similar to what I saw with my eyes.

I will try playing with manual exposure to avoid the camera trying to gain up these darker areas.

Do you think I am on the right track with this?

Nickoff

07-18-08, 12:40 AM

Have any SR11/12 owners used the Sony MC-5 dvd burner? I assume if I record in camera at the highest quality, can I burn this as AVCHD disk for play back in PS3 or Panny BD players, but can I also burn as SD dvd so i can give copies to family, friends etc? Does it downconvert this way? Is there anyway to make small edits, wipes, add music etc? Would the disks have a menu? Is each small clip a separate chapter? I'm a complete noob on this and hoping to get an SR12 later this year before going to Disneyland in November (I'm in Oz - PAL land).

qatarmallu

07-18-08, 04:40 AM

Nickoff..
i just purchased MC-5 and using it as DVD recorder. It is an excellent one comapred to canons DW-100.
It has inputs of USB ( directly from sony camcorder), S-video, Video cable

I am waiting for my sony SR-CX12. So at present im converting my DV tapes to DVD, photos in cards to DVD, recording programmes from TV etc.
It is an excellent dvd recorder with lot of useful fns

I cannot comment on recording AVCDH to SD (mpeg) since i have not used it...

aridan

07-18-08, 05:34 AM

Because the definition of "editing" usually involves a lot more than just converting. Users here want to fix up the video and audio, add effects, transitions, titles, menus, etc. They also want more choices than the 3-4 profiles that PMB supports.

That being said, I personally use PMB to create quick DVDs and AVCHD disks, just because it's brain-dead simple and quick. When I want to do high quality transcoding, I use Expression Encoder. And when I want to do any real editing, I use Pinnacle Studio.

If your editing needs are humble, PMB will probably do most of what you need and you don't need to bother with anything else. Also note that PMB comes with DShow codecs that you can register to playback M2TS files in WMP without transcoding (you'll need to get yourself a AC-3 filter, but that's not too hard to do). Check the blog I pointed you for instructions on how to register those filters.

Thanks Eric,

Looks like PMB will suffice for now. I'm not looking to do any high level editing, just simple converts so I can post vids on the web and share SD-DVD with family. As far editing will go, I don't foresee doing anything more involved that simply scene cutting, so PMB sounds like it will do job right.

Thanks again for all your help, it is very appreciated. :)

On a side note: Given the huge size of these M2TS files, what do people use to store them on? (other than burning BRay disks)....

gazebo

07-18-08, 06:13 AM

flintyplus

07-18-08, 09:25 AM

ericjut

07-18-08, 09:55 AM

I am trying to make my first avchd disc with the pmb but after over 3 hrs its only done 5% of a 27 min film,It is showing the 5% of decoded.How long does it take on average to make one of these discs please.

Something's wrong. I was long done within 30 minutes for a similar amount of content, including the burning phase. Are you able to playback your M2TS from within PMB? If not, then you have to resolve that before you can probably author a AVCHD disk. To do that, you'll probably have to uninstall some other software that conflicts with it (I know Nero did for me).

ericjut

07-18-08, 09:59 AM

I want to get the ACC-FH70 primarily for its included battery, and use the case for storing the power supply and other stuff.

I also want to get a more compact case that offers protection to the camcorder when it's carried in a backpack. The Sony LCS-SRC looks good but I'm afraid it is not rugged enough.

Does anyone have experience with other 3rd party small cases?

Oh, why doesn't the SR11 come with a shoulder strap (I owned a Sony miniDV camcorder in the past and it had a shoulder strap)? Is this the new trend now in camcorder designs nowadays? Or is it just Sony?

I own both cases and I'm very happy having both of them.

I bought the ACC-FH70 at B&H ($75 right now) and the LCS-SRC directly from Sony because it was cheaper at the time, but you can get it from B&H for $42 right now. The bag in the accessory will be big for the SR11/12, so you'll be able to stock up a lot of accessories. On the other hand, the LCS-SRC fits like a glove on the SR11/12. I see reasons to own both in my case (depending on how light I want to travel).

ericjut

07-18-08, 10:09 AM

On a side note: Given the huge size of these M2TS files, what do people use to store them on? (other than burning BRay disks)....

HDDs (three redundant copies personally). HDDs are still the cheapest way to do it right now. If you don't take scenes that are too long, you could also use DVD+Rs and burning AVCHD disks with PMB (or just copying them as data directly on the disk using your favorite burning software). But remember that both HDDs and DVD+Rs aren't reliable for long time periods and the data will need to be transferred to new mediums every 4-5 years to be sure there's no data loss.

I guess there's also renting some space online as an option. But I sure don't want to rely only on that for a backup mechanism. As a company can always fold faster than I can get my data back.

I know it's a pain right now, but I think we're going to see better solutions in the near future.

natemu06

07-18-08, 10:12 AM

I think it would be alot easier and cheaper to buy an external USB drive and just plug that into the PS3 when you want to watch them

So if I decide not to go with a blu ray burner could someone help me out. I need to buy ANY? external hard drive(I was thinking like 500gb or 1tb) I take it that it just needs a USB connection that I will connect directly to my PS3. I was also wondering how to get the video onto the hard drive to begin with? Do I need to connect the external hard drive and the camcorder to my computer or is there an easier way where I can just download the video straight to the hard drive directly. Is there other equipment I am going to need? I also don't want to do any editing to the video btw

flintyplus

07-18-08, 12:07 PM

Something's wrong. I was long done within 30 minutes for a similar amount of content, including the burning phase. Are you able to playback your M2TS from within PMB? If not, then you have to resolve that before you can probably author a AVCHD disk. To do that, you'll probably have to uninstall some other software that conflicts with it (I know Nero did for me).
I am trying nero but it seems hopeless,Although my pc is well under 3 years old it is only intel pentium duo 2.80 GHZ 2gb of ram, powerful at the time.Sadly i may have to go back to hdv solely and use the SR12 for the odd outing and store on the external.
my burner does -R could that be the problem.

aridan

07-18-08, 02:42 PM

One more question: What is the consensus with regards to the best battery replacement to the POS that comes with the camera?

aridan

07-18-08, 02:43 PM

One more question: What's the general consensus with regards to the best battery replacement to that POS that comes with the cam?

dalemccl

07-18-08, 04:03 PM

One more question: What's the general consensus with regards to the best battery replacement to that POS that comes with the cam?

I bought the Sony NPFH70. I think it is rated for 6 hours, although that is with using the viewfinder, not the LCD. I *think* using the LCD cuts it down by about half. They make an NPFH100 which lasts longer, but its so big that it sticks out past the body, so you can't get your eye up to the viewfinder very easily.

ericjut

07-18-08, 04:28 PM

The 70 won't give you much more than 2 hours. The 100 will give you about 4-5 hours.

Rich Z

07-18-08, 04:34 PM

I've only just browsed the last few dozen pages of this thread, so excuse me if this has been covered early on.

I currently have a HDR-HC3 that I am fairly happy with, but I sure wanted to capture those extra horizontal pixels that the SR12 has with the 1920x1080 format. So I've been reading up a storm on reviews and personal opinions about this camera.

I literally had the SR12 sitting in the basket of an online seller, and had to run out on an errand. I went by Best Buy and they happened to have an SR11 there on display. So I spent several minutes playing with it. One thing I was particularly interested in was the speed of the autofocus. Now bear in mind, that the inside of the store was pretty brightly lit, but not outside, but even so, the "speed" of the autofocus was atrocious. What I would to was to point the camera at a distant object, then quickly swing to a close object. Refocusing took around 4 to 5 seconds! This was repeated time and time again with all sorts of objects in the store in case it was simply a problem with the camera having enough contrast to work with in the screen.

Pretty much disappointed, when I came home, I broke out the HC3 and did the same kind of testing within my outbuilding and noted the results. Worst case was two seconds. NEVER longer than that, no matter what.

Yeah, the PQ is awesome and still pics look great, but sheesh, that thing was slower than molasses focusing and would likely be pretty useless with fast paced subject matter. Obviously I didn't complete my order online. For that kind of money, I guess I just expected better focusing speed than I could see it offering.

So, back to the drawing board for me......

Ken Ross

07-18-08, 05:48 PM

Rich, I haven't noticed that slow focusing with my SR12 in any kind of decent lighting.

dennis052

07-18-08, 07:30 PM

natemu06

07-18-08, 08:41 PM

So if I decide not to go with a blu ray burner could someone help me out. I need to buy ANY? external hard drive(I was thinking like 500gb or 1tb) I take it that it just needs a USB connection that I will connect directly to my PS3. I was also wondering how to get the video onto the hard drive to begin with? Do I need to connect the external hard drive and the camcorder to my computer or is there an easier way where I can just download the video straight to the hard drive directly. Is there other equipment I am going to need? I also don't want to do any editing to the video btw

any help?

Rich Z

07-18-08, 11:49 PM

Here is my experience regarding slow focusing issue. I tested a SR11 in Costco and it was very slow to focus anything, and I tested SR12 in both Best Buy and Fry's electronic, there were no focusing issue at all. In fact the camcorder focus real fast even in rather dim light environment inside the Frys Strore. I only find still picture bad inside the store so I did not buy one yet.

Interesting........ All the reviews I've read have stated that the SR11 and SR 12 are virtually identical with the exception of the hard drive inside.... :confused:

dennis052

07-19-08, 01:55 AM

flintyplus

07-19-08, 03:26 AM

I want to get the ACC-FH70 primarily for its included battery, and use the case for storing the power supply and other stuff.

I also want to get a more compact case that offers protection to the camcorder when it's carried in a backpack. The Sony LCS-SRC looks good but I'm afraid it is not rugged enough.

Does anyone have experience with other 3rd party small cases?

Oh, why doesn't the SR11 come with a shoulder strap (I owned a Sony miniDV camcorder in the past and it had a shoulder strap)? Is this the new trend now in camcorder designs nowadays? Or is it just Sony?

Regarding the strap i had to take the strap off my HC-1 for mine HOW TIGHT.
As i have said my big problem is taking footage that that i can do nothing with only store.

Ken Steadman

07-19-08, 10:02 AM

any help?

I would hook them both up to your computer and and transfer them over. As far as drivewise it should be formatted FAT32 not NTFS for the PS3 to read it properly. I think the max drize size for FAT32 is 2TB but I would imagine you would have a pretty hard time filling up 500 or even 750gb if you're not doing editing.

natemu06

07-19-08, 11:13 AM

I would hook them both up to your computer and and transfer them over. As far as drivewise it should be formatted FAT32 not NTFS for the PS3 to read it properly. I think the max drize size for FAT32 is 2TB but I would imagine you would have a pretty hard time filling up 500 or even 750gb if you're not doing editing.

This may be a stupid question but I am a noobie and I am not sure the difference between FAT32 and NTFS? You are saying the hard drive should be formatted to FAT32? Is there any specific formate I need to record the video (like setting the camera to a certain setting? ) Thanks!

Ken Steadman

07-19-08, 11:32 AM

This may be a stupid question but I am a noobie and I am not sure the difference between FAT32 and NTFS? You are saying the hard drive should be formatted to FAT32? Is there any specific formate I need to record the video (like setting the camera to a certain setting? ) Thanks!

FAt32 and NTFS are just two differnt ways of formatting your harddrive. Yes the external hard drive has to be formatted as FAT32 for the PS3 to use it as a media drive. Your camera drive is fine just the way you buy it.

Chris43

07-19-08, 12:51 PM

I am just getting in to video, and am looking at the SR11. I don't have any HD equipment at the moment, but reckon that in 3 years or less, all my existing stuff will have been replaced, and you probably won't then be able to buy anything that isn't HD capable.

I know I could just buy a SD camcorder now, and replace it later, but I was hoping to miss out that step. I'm thinking of an SR11 and record in HD, archive these on hard disk or DVD in HD format, and then convert to standard TV format onto DVD to give the kids their copies of the clips.

Or, I might even go standard definition to start with, but haven't worked that out yet.

My real question is how good is the quality of non HD outputs, either converted from HD recordings or from direct standard recordings? I know its a piece of string...but any advice would be very useful, as this doesn't seem to be covered in any of the reviews I can find on the web.

Rich Z

07-19-08, 03:07 PM

Sorry, the one I tested in Best Buy is SR11, only Fry's electronic carried SR12 in the store. So, I don't think focusing issue is depending on which model but rather the unit itself. Maybe some settings have been changed or too many people were playing with the demo unit in Costco.

Well, this is even scarier than just thinking the SR11 is slower in focusing than the SR12. Not sure I would be real happy to order a SR12 and wind up getting a *slow* unit. How about everyone else? How many seconds in decent light does it take the SR12 to focus from a distant object to a close object in full tele zoom range? One to two seconds is acceptable to me. Four to five seconds is definitely NOT.

Jerry Incollingo

07-19-08, 03:12 PM

Ken Steadman

07-19-08, 06:47 PM

Well, this is even scarier than just thinking the SR11 is slower in focusing than the SR12. Not sure I would be real happy to order a SR12 and wind up getting a *slow* unit. How about everyone else? How many seconds in decent light does it take the SR12 to focus from a distant object to a close object in full tele zoom range? One to two seconds is acceptable to me. Four to five seconds is definitely NOT.

I wouldnt be too worried the demo models are usually pretty banged up at the box stores.

Ken Steadman

07-19-08, 06:51 PM

Why can't I get the video light / flash unit that fits on my TRV-900 to fit in the accessory shoe of the SR11? Am I missing something? If you slide back the cover for the shoe on top of the camcorder I don't see how anything could fit onto that shoe because the plastic cover prevents one from fitting the accessory into the shoe. Anyone using the shoe for anything successfully?

Thanks for your help in advance.

Jerry

I think your TRV-900 has a standard shoe the SR11 has the sony AIS shoe you need an adaptor to fit in standard mounts

http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=SSA
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/468612-REG/Pearstone_SSA_Cold_Shoe_Adapter_for.html

dalemccl

07-20-08, 12:26 AM

Jerry Incollingo

07-20-08, 07:54 AM

I think your TRV-900 has a standard shoe the SR11 has the sony AIS shoe you need an adaptor to fit in standard mounts

http://www.keene.co.uk/electronics/multi.php?mycode=SSA
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/468612-REG/Pearstone_SSA_Cold_Shoe_Adapter_for.html

Thanks Ken. I also have a great tripod from Sony that controls the TRV-900 but alas it can't be used on the SR11. Oh well, time to spend more money :)

Jer

August1991

07-20-08, 01:40 PM

My real question is how good is the quality of non HD outputs, either converted from HD recordings or from direct standard recordings? I know its a piece of string...but any advice would be very useful, as this doesn't seem to be covered in any of the reviews I can find on the web.I have an SR11 and I have found best results by shooting in the highest quality HD (1920x1080 at 60i) and then rendering through software to SD (720x480 at 30p). The end resut looks great on any ordinary TV.

Here is my experience regarding slow focusing issue. I tested a SR11 in Costco and it was very to focus anything, and I tested SR12 in both Best Buy and Fry's electronic, there were no focusing issue at all. In fact the camcorder focus real fast even in rather dim light environment inside the Frys Strore. I only find still picture bad inside the store so I did not buy one yet.First of all, I don't think the difference is in the SR11 or SR12. In this regard, they are identical.

It is hard to compare when so many external factors will influence the auto-focus speed or accuracy. For example, I find that the auto-focus works best in wide angle and is slow in telephoto.

I recently shot various insects collecting nectar from flowers (12x optical zoom and 24x digital zoom). The auto-focus usually handled well the movement from flower to flower but very occasionally, it gave me trouble. I think these are peculiar issues between software and a specific image. The colour and precision of the final images were remarkable (at 1280x720 on my laptop). I suggest this is as one easy test of a camera.

Nevertheless, the autofocus is an admitted weakness of the SR11/12. In lowlight, it is slow. Before pressing the record button, particularly if I'm zoomed in, I check the focus and give it some time.

ericjut

07-20-08, 04:36 PM

I agree with you August, but does it take you 5 seconds + to achieve focus on a constant basis?

It's not to me. In most cases, I'm getting something within 1-2 seconds (that's with an SR11), independently if I'm tele, wide, macro or not.

jasoraso

07-21-08, 10:54 AM

I saw a video on Vimeo that I really like. It was shot with a Canon HF100. Are there settings on the SR11/12 that could make it take this clean of video with night lighting like this? Or did do you think the HF100 raw footage was probably noisier and it was cleaned up in post-production?

http://www.vimeo.com/955945

If you are not familiar with Vimeo, you can watch in full screen mode by clicking the icon in the lower right-hand corner of the playback window.

I just got the SR11 and wonder if it is capable of making night time video like this (I haven't gotten anything close in the few days I have had it; my night videos have a lot of noise/grain in the dark areas of the frame).

Ther SR11 has many pluses compared to the HF10/100. so I hope it is also capable of similar night video and that I just need to learn to use it right.

The key to making a video like this is to get to know the camera and its manual controls. The producer of the vimeo video you linked to used these settings: 30p,Tv mode,1/30s,and EXP -2

Although the Sony doesn't have a 30p mode, it does offer a slow shutter, and GREAT controls over the exposure. Play around with some of the scene selections (try the twilight, night, or fireworks settings, and then adjust with the exposure control. The biggest difference will probably come with the exposure control (tip: hold the front control nob button in for 1-2 seconds, and then a pop-up menu will allow you switch from focus or whatever to exposure adjustment on the control nob).

The canon camera used in the vimeo clip does offer 30p mode and more precise control over shutter speed, but the Sony has a slow-speed shutter that will kick in, and the manual control on the exposure should allow you to produce a similar quality video ...