When do you choose to do a major upgrade to your home theater?

A few cases in point.

1. For years now my good friends Mark Haflich, Mike Parker and Mark Burnstein belittled me re my "little" Dwin HD-700 color filtered CRT with the
80" wide screen. But the picture and color was gorgeous. And I didn't want to spend $$$ at the time. Of course I was self-aggrandizing what I had.
And I didn't want to go BIG Tim Martin style with a heavier than holy Marquee 9" CRT even though I luved its picture. I liked to refer to my projector as a "mini-Marquee" on its 80" wide screen. But last year it broke down twice and I came to the conclusion that any repair wouldn't last and I didn't wanna hassle. I investigated the latest crop of digital projectors and - WOW! I luv the Sim2 projectors and recently got the Sim2 C3X 1080 and I am not lookin' back (Yea, Mark Haflich kept berating my Dwin and finally got me to get a Sim2 from him. HA!)


2. Jeff "The Bland" has a more recent then top line digital projector, Sony's Qualia004 (four years old now) and he's still getting by with it, just like I did my Dwin. But his is a four year newer (I got my Dwin in 2000) and somewhat more current technological investment. Yet he's holding off on upgrading to a newer projector with HDMI, etc. Here's what Jeff said about this in another thread:

The Qualia is a great projector, that in my situation, is providing an extended life for me until the next great thingarrives. The JVC projectors are nice but they simply cannot light up an extremely large screen. Moreover, most projectors use UHP bulbs, and for me Xenon provides the best light. Moreover, I haven't seen a PJ yet as quiet as the Qualia.

I know there is better now, but I am waiting for a shift in technology to provide a significant upgrade in performance. Until then, the 004 provides a pleasing picture.

____________________________________________


It seems like so many years but actually its only a year or so that Jeff "The Bland" has castigated us Theta CB3 (with or without Six Shooter multi-channel analog preamp owners)(but Jeff has shot his arrows at Theta long before the HDMI question came up) owners, that the CB3 is "obsolete technology" getting "long in the truth" and "should be upgraded to HDMI" for multi-channel audio and video right away!!!! The CB3 upgrade became available about 2004 - when Jeff's Qualia004 came out. Aren't they both equally obsolete in this 1080p digital HDMI 1.3 audio/video day and age?

Jeff really goes after us Theta CB3 owners for not changing to Halcro or Lexicon now (they are HDMI 1.1 I believe, arguably already obsolete? HA!)
But why throw out the whole kitty when you can add a claw?

While the new Theta (purchased by ATI) is working on its upcoming CB4? with HDMI 1.3 (still to be determined if there will be an upgrade/trade-in price from the CB3), I have decided to do a "stop gap" adding of an Integra DTC-9.8 preamp/processor to my system. Just got it connected but haven't started using yet. The Integra will be used solely to take HDMI 1.3 from my Integra HD DVD and Panasonic Blu Ray players (which send all audio formats over bitstream HDMI 1.3), then output multi-channel analog to my Theta Six Shooter. I anticipate this will sound as good if not better than my prior use of my prior Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD player to output multi-channel analog to my Theta Six Shooter. It just doesn't sense for me to replace my mothership surround processor, which does so great for me on so much (DirecTV, DVD, SACD, DVD-A, redbook) and for which I am concerned Halcro or Lexicon won't be as good overall.

_________________________________

So Jeff, to quote you about another company's product, your projector is "obsolete technology" getting "long in the truth" and "should be upgraded to HDMI" right away!!!! Look in the mirrow and if you're gonna keep criticizing us Theta CB3 owners, then upgrade your obsolete Sony Qualia004.

Steve

I only use my PrePro for HT. I did a lot of research on HDMI...read all of the confusing threads and when all was said and done my only interest was in one which was reliable and could pass 1080p24.
I bought the Lexicon MC12HD Balannced and have never looked back. It does everything for me that I want and I have no regrets. Who knows what I will do when HDMI issue problems become nonproblems. Bear in mind that the only time I use the Lexicon is for video and nothing else

What does "long in the truth" mean?

Do you mean "long in the tooth"?

from phrases.org:

Long in the tooth

Meaning

Old, especially of horses or people.

Origin

Horses's teeth, unlike humans', continue to grow with age. They also wear down with use, but the changes in the characteristics of the teeth over time make it possible to make a rough estimate of a horse's age by examining them.

There are various similar Latin phrases dating back to the 16th century. The gap between these and the first citation of the English version - in 1852, make it likely that 'long in the tooth' was coined independently from those earlier Latin sayings. That earliest citation is in Thackeray's, The History of Henry Esmond, Esq. and refers to a woman rather than a horse:

"His cousin was now of more than middle age, and had nobody's word but her own for the beauty which she said she once possessed. She was lean, and yellow, and long in the tooth; all the red and white in all the toy-shops in London could not make a beauty of her."

TYPO - meant "long in the tooth", not "long in the truth".

The "long in the tooth" phrase has been used by Jeff "The Bland" to describe the CB3.

But it should be used equally to describe Jeff's Qualia004.

Which makes my old Dwin HD-700 "longer in the tooth".

And my current Sim2 C3X 1080 is "not in the tooth". When the next model comes out, it will be "short in the tooth". When its four years old like Jeff's, it'll be "long in the tooth" with newer technologies multiplied out.

Obsolete... My Qualia takes HDMI and outputs 1080P24(sf). So, though contrast is better in some projectors, I still get full resolution digitally... See, for movies, you are now using Integra and your Theta sits powered OFF. No HDMI on the Theta but the Qualia has it and is getting full 1080P... C'mon Steve, my prediction is that ATi will do an 'upgrade like Lexicon did. Upgrade to the latest and greatest for $7K or by it from a dealer new for $8K.

Nice try!!:D

Obsolete... My Qualia takes HDMI and outputs 1080P24(sf). So, though contrast is better in some projectors, I still get full resolution digitally... See, for movies, you are now using Integra and your Theta sits powered OFF. No HDMI on the Theta but the Qualia has it and is getting full 1080P... C'mon Steve, my prediction is that ATi will do an 'upgrade like Lexicon did. Upgrade to the latest and greatest for $7K or by it from a dealer new for $8K.

Nice try!!:D

Art's Sim2 HT5000 smokes your Qualia007. A fellow Az AV Club member recently bought a used one with new bulb off Audiogon for 7 grand or so he says. But he still luvs his 9" CRT and he says he uses the Qualia to help better converge his CRT projector. Your Qualia will soon be a doorstop. HA!

Steve the Qualia is adequate...actually, really nice.... But I am waiting on a piece that surpasses the HT5000 that is as quiet as my 004. Could be a year or two (or less).

But I am getting 1080P video with it....how's that full digital lossless sound doing in the Theta (er, Integra)???:D

Steve I think you should add this picture to you profile:D:D

Steve I think you should add this picture to you profile:D:D

Why? Who is that? Is it you?:eek:

Steve the Qualia is adequate...actually, really nice.... But I am waiting on a piece that surpasses the HT5000 that is as quiet as my 004. Could be a year or two (or less).

But I am getting 1080P video with it....how's that full digital lossless sound doing in the Theta (er, Integra)???:D

So you've made a price-performance decision on waiting to upgrade.
Gee, I do that, too.

Just got the Integra. Gotta figure it out. HA!!

Billionaire Vince McMahon, the instigating head of World Wide Wrestling.:D

Mebbe he'll take me and Jeff on for a ringwrestle????

is it just me or... what is the point of this thread?

I don't know either and I'm on the topic.....

The point is for Steve to give The Bland the business. That's it. I do believe a thread was started with the sole purpose of shaming Steve into buying a new projector. But Jeff didn't do it, did he?

The point is for Steve to give The Bland the business. That's it. I do believe a thread was started with the sole purpose of shaming Steve into buying a new projector. But Jeff didn't do it, did he?


I probably did that myself. HA!

The Bland gives me a lot of business. At least weekly. So yes he does serve a bit of biz, too!!!!!!

"Obsolete technology" "Long in the Tooth" To the extent such applies to my CB3 and Six Shooter it arguably equally applies to his Sony Qualia004.

I don't know either and I'm on the topic.....

YOU KNOW!!!@@

C'mon Steve... 1080P is the pinnace or Video playback. It is the resolution of the new Blu Ray discs.. My Qualia did 1080P24 years ago.

On the audio side, HDMI is needed lossless codecs. A no go with your beloved Theta..... and likely will never have it. I still recall Evelyn disingenuously coming here to tell all how HDMI was coming along at Theta when there was no HDMI R & D and she was shopping the company...

You've gotta do better to give me the business!:D

C'mon Steve... 1080P is the pinnace or Video playback. It is the resolution of the new Blu Ray discs.. My Qualia did 1080P24 years ago.

On the audio side, HDMI is needed lossless codecs. A no go with your beloved Theta..... and likely will never have it. I still recall Evelyn disingenuously coming here to tell all how HDMI was coming along at Theta when there was no HDMI R & D and she was shopping the company...

You've gotta do better to give me the business!:D

A four year old projector with obsolete technology such that Sony discontinued it. Give me a break!!!@@@ Show me the money!!!!@@@

A four year old projector with obsolete technology such that Sony discontinued it. Give me a break!!!@@@ Show me the money!!!!@@@


Obsolete???

1080P24 video output on my 4 year old Qualia (way ahead of its time) vs Toslink / SPDIF Coax on your Theta!!! And the Qualia lighhts up a 14' wide screen to boot!!!

Your CB...a 10 year old albatross that was so un-upgradeable, Theta sold the company instead!!!:D:D

Too bad the $1500 Integra is an 'upgrade' for your $15K theater processor!!!! Show me the money!!!:p

Jeff, if you had a Sim2 HT5000 like Art I wouldn't quibble with you. Now that's top technology. Not four years old and an outdated platform discontinued by Sony (like our HD DVD players. HA!)

"Too bad the $1500 Integra is an 'upgrade' for your $15K theater processor!!!! Show me the money!!!"
__________________

I think Jeff wins with that zinger!

This is actually much better then Monday Night Smackdown!!:)

Steve, why don't you at least give the Halcro a try at a reduced savings with this piece on Gon. It's a local guy who posts here on AVS and you could always recoup your investment if you did not like it? The warranty is transferable and perhaps something gained and nothing lost (in the $$$ category) in the process. The price is chump change to you.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homeproc&1209701163

So which "high end"processor utilizes the most recent HDMI correctly?

So which "high end"processor utilizes the most recent HDMI correctly?

There are none.

C'mon Steve, the Halcro is stable and will get your audio back to your high standards..:)

Bland

Keep up the torture.
Lets see; 3 years of USING complete high rezolution blis..... I would take that any day instead of 5 years of talking about something that yet has to be perfected or obtained. The qualia is still better then 90% of the projectors that are out there. When the 10% gets perfected I will make my move.
BTW Steve. I get increased contrast and better blacks on my Qualia 004 by using those glasses that tint as the light gets brighter. <grin>

There is a sticky thread in the Pre/Pro forum that discusses this stuff audioguy. Check that out for more info... :-)

There is a sticky thread in the Pre/Pro forum that discusses this stuff audioguy. Check that out for more info... :-)

I did and the answer is: as of today, there is no high end processor capable of supporting HDMI 1.3 --- but lots of promises

i know it will add a few more boxes to your setup, but you could go with a nice preamp and get one of the many receivers that already have hdmi 1.3 and process all the hd formats. by doing this, you have the purity of 2 channel for your l/r fronts and use the surround bypass from the preamp to control the volume from the receiver and the surround speakers. i found this to be an awesome combo and prefer it to many processors that cost $$$.

i know it will add a few more boxes to your setup, but you could go with a nice preamp and get one of the many receivers that already have hdmi 1.3 and process all the hd formats. by doing this, you have the purity of 2 channel for your l/r fronts and use the surround bypass from the preamp to control the volume from the receiver and the surround speakers. i found this to be an awesome combo and prefer it to many processors that cost $$$.

Why? My CB3 and Six Shooter is no more obsolete than the Bland's Qualia004.
That's the whole point. A little Integra solves my HDMI for HD DVD & Blu Ray dilemma for now, while Theta works out its HDMI solution and its policy/cost for upgrade/trade-in.

When I am SO HAPPY with what I have and the cost to REDO it all gives me so much little in return why should I? Gee, isn't that The Bland's perception on his QualiaOO4???

The Halcro won't give me any better sound from DVD or my DirecTV stuff.
It won't sound as good on redbook or multi-channel SACD or DVD-Audio.
And Halcro is currently having supply problems as Vinci went out of business.

Now for someone buying new I agree that perhaps better to consider a newer
design HDMI multi-channel audio processor, like Halcro or Lexicon, than sink bucks into the CB3 and hope Theta will do a reaonable upgrade or trade-in price with the HDMI version - as Theta has made no announcement yet on this. But I'm an existing long happy customer and my circumstances are different. Just like if The Bland were buying a new video projector he would have a range of current choices and probably wouldn't buy a used Qualia004. But since The Bland already has a Qualia004 and to invest new money in a new projector is premature in his esteemed financial and technological opinion, he is waiting for now. Me, too.

"A little Integra solves my HDMI for HD DVD & Blu Ray dilemma for now, while Theta works out its HDMI solution and its policy/cost for upgrade/trade-in."

The Integra will also handle DVD-A and SACD for you too....

Shawn

That's the whole point. A little Integra solves my HDMI for HD DVD & Blu Ray dilemma for now, while Theta works out its HDMI solution and its policy/cost for upgrade/trade-in.




Did you get that 9.8 working?

"A little Integra solves my HDMI for HD DVD & Blu Ray dilemma for now, while Theta works out its HDMI solution and its policy/cost for upgrade/trade-in."

The Integra will also handle DVD-A and SACD for you too....

Shawn

Yes it can, using its analog multi-channel inputs from my Theta Compli. But I prefer to use the Compli straight to the Six Shooter for this.

Steve,

It can do it over HDMI.

Shawn

Steve,

It can do it over HDMI.

Shawn


That begets the question whether the Compli doing the conversion to analog into the Six Shooter will sound better for multi-channel SACD and DVD-A than say an Oppo player doing this digital via HDMI into the 9.8 Integra and out its analog multi-channel.

What I've got sounds so good already no need to change. Though I admit I was already aware of this, but as I've already made a # of changes to my system not ready to consider another one - Yet. HA!

Now lets hear the closing statement from the defense..... Mr. The Bland? :D

But I just gave the closing argument for my defense!!!@@@

I happily owned the Qualia 004 (upgraded to 1080p input and all) for a little over two years. As I began to sense the sea change in projectors, I bailed and sold it (cheaply, I'd add, at $12,500).

I'm now very content with the projector that gets little fanfare, but is comparatively a well-kept secret, the Sharp XV-Z20000. Having said that, one of the attractions to this fetish is the love for the well-made machine, the piece of art, the Ferrari . . .

That is and was the Qualia 004. While the Sharp rivals it, and in most cases at least equals it, it does not better it. And, amid my "kit" (as some Brits refer to it), the Qualia seemed more at home with my system . . . Revel Ultima speakers, Halcro Amps, Lexicon MC-12 HD EQ . . .

The Qualia, however, belongs to the past. All of what it offered from a performance standpoint can be had for a fraction of the price. While I actually did run mine to the end with the first bulb (I got just over 1600 hours, but I used high brightness mode), the cost of ultimate replacement bulbs is far too high, as the bulb alone would qualify in the "high end projector forum" . . . it was a beautiful piece of machinery. It was a work of art. There was a passion and a stretch for excellence in the Qualia that, sadly, I think we will never see from Sony again.

While I might have buried my Qualia prematurely, it remains the most elegant resident that my system ever harbored. And, while I doubt that anyone yet has seriously bettered its performance, it has been at least equaled, and for a fraction of the price. But its presence is missed, not necessarily for what it did, but for what it was.

Nick :cool:


The Qualia was history in the making. As was the Theta CB3. The Qualia won't have a trade-in or upgrade price to a new Qualia. Remains to be seen if there will be a trade-in or upgrade price for the new CB, but I betcha there will be.

What is the purpose of this tread?
To bash certain brands, to glote?
The fact is that the whole HDMI implementation has been far from smooth and from a consumers point of view some what of a disaster.
The Theta Casablanca has been around since the beginning of digital surround, an impressive achievement in itself. Sound quality wise it is still up there with the best, but as Thebland keeps reminding us it`s an old machine.
The Halcro is as dated as the Casablanca due to the lack of HDMI 1.3 support.
i have read the whole Halcro report and it seems to me that Thebland to some extent is swallowing his pride and giving the Halcro more credit than it deserves, afterall the problems has been queeing up, but Thebland always tells us he is keeping the Halcro because of the sonics, which is exactly the same reason Steve keeps his casablanca.
Personally i just sold my Krell Showcase in favour of a Denon AVR-4308, only to find out that my PS3 can`t utilize the new HD sound formats...
Again this proves what a mess the implementation of HDMI is.
Looking at this from a buisness perspective i can understand why the high-end industry is weary about the whole HDMI issue. There are so many problems with HDMI and when you pay $30.000 for a piece of kit you expect it to work flawlessly, well the high-end company can`t deliver on that pomise yet, neither can my AVR-4308.
Theta, Halco and the rest of the high-end producers are probeably working overtime with HDMI implementations and devising trade in programs to keep exsisting customers happy, it`s just taking alot more time than any of us anticipated, thanks to the ever evolving HDMI spec. It would not surprise me that we will se HDMI 1.whatever in the near future and we the consumers once more have to take it on the chin.

What is the purpose of this tread?
To bash certain brands, to glote?
The fact is that the whole HDMI implementation has been far from smooth and from a consumers point of view some what of a disaster.
The Theta Casablanca has been around since the beginning of digital surround, an impressive achievement in itself. Sound quality wise it is still up there with the best, but as Thebland keeps reminding us it`s an old machine.
The Halcro is as dated as the Casablanca due to the lack of HDMI 1.3 support.
i have read the whole Halcro report and it seems to me that Thebland to some extent is swallowing his pride and giving the Halcro more credit than it deserves, afterall the problems has been queeing up, but Thebland always tells us he is keeping the Halcro because of the sonics, which is exactly the same reason Steve keeps his casablanca.
Personally i just sold my Krell Showcase in favour of a Denon AVR-4308, only to find out that my PS3 can`t utilize the new HD sound formats...
Again this proves what a mess the implementation of HDMI is.
Looking at this from a buisness perspective i can understand why the high-end industry is weary about the whole HDMI issue. There are so many problems with HDMI and when you pay $30.000 for a piece of kit you expect it to work flawlessly, well the high-end company can`t deliver on that pomise yet, neither can my AVR-4308.
Theta, Halco and the rest of the high-end producers are probeably working overtime with HDMI implementations and devising trade in programs to keep exsisting customers happy, it`s just taking alot more time than any of us anticipated, thanks to the ever evolving HDMI spec. It would not surprise me that we will se HDMI 1.whatever in the near future and we the consumers once more have to take it on the chin.

Your common sense posting is rare on the web. Congrats!!!@@@

You make some very wierd asumptions here. You take at face value peoples opinions on products they don't have, and condone people who have products, use them and make justifiable points about how good they are. There isn't a piece of audio/video gear that is not obsolete the minute it is introduced. Why; becuase of stupid assumptions people make based on marketing hype. Like I have said before; we are falling on our own sword The high end is dying and we are the cause of its demise.

What is the purpose of this tread?
To bash certain brands, to glote?
The fact is that the whole HDMI implementation has been far from smooth and from a consumers point of view some what of a disaster.
The Theta Casablanca has been around since the beginning of digital surround, an impressive achievement in itself. Sound quality wise it is still up there with the best, but as Thebland keeps reminding us it`s an old machine.
The Halcro is as dated as the Casablanca due to the lack of HDMI 1.3 support.
i have read the whole Halcro report and it seems to me that Thebland to some extent is swallowing his pride and giving the Halcro more credit than it deserves, afterall the problems has been queeing up, but Thebland always tells us he is keeping the Halcro because of the sonics, which is exactly the same reason Steve keeps his casablanca.
Personally i just sold my Krell Showcase in favour of a Denon AVR-4308, only to find out that my PS3 can`t utilize the new HD sound formats...
Again this proves what a mess the implementation of HDMI is.
Looking at this from a buisness perspective i can understand why the high-end industry is weary about the whole HDMI issue. There are so many problems with HDMI and when you pay $30.000 for a piece of kit you expect it to work flawlessly, well the high-end company can`t deliver on that pomise yet, neither can my AVR-4308.
Theta, Halco and the rest of the high-end producers are probeably working overtime with HDMI implementations and devising trade in programs to keep exsisting customers happy, it`s just taking alot more time than any of us anticipated, thanks to the ever evolving HDMI spec. It would not surprise me that we will se HDMI 1.whatever in the near future and we the consumers once more have to take it on the chin.

Your understanding of this debate leaves much to be desired...

1. The Casablanca is as updated as the 20 year old Lexicon DC-1. COAX / Toslink are the best digital inputs on board. Unfortunately, the world has turned to HDMI for the ideal conduit to deliver lossless sound. The Halcro has it, the Theta does not.
2. The Halcro can accept (via HDMI) all lossless formats. The Theta cannot (and likely never will despite ATI's promises).
3. The Halcro can keep the lossless formats in the digital domain and apply all needed post processing, time alignment, etc for ideal movie sound with their wonderful DACs.
4. The Theta acts as only a pass through for the lossless codecs. It does nothing but act as a remote control for a six shooter add on (which can take analog lossless but apply no digital post processing unless there is an extra a/d & D/A conversion. so, The theta has no functionality re: lossless movie sound and the EXTREME DACs do little more than sit on the sidelines when a Dolby TRUE HD or DTS Master Audio track is running.
5. (And most telling.....), Steve is not using his Theta for lossless movie sound. He switched to the Integra piece which also helps to validate my thoughts. You need HDMI to get the best sound today. HDMI 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 all will provide identical movie sound and post processing..

Theta is like Jack Nicklaus was to golf. He played in over 40 Master's tourneys, he set a lot of records and won many times, but when he got up to Masters #25 and higher, he was there as mainly a courtesy to his iconic career, not to actually compete to win. Halcro (and Lexicon) represent Tiger Woods in such an analogy. They both offer the current highest theater advancements in surround sound and are competing to win.

As soon as one of the heavy hitter pre/pro companies comes out with a HDMI 1.3 processor, this may change. But for now, these pieces are tops and the Theta is no more advanced than a 20 year old DD/DTS pre/pro that only accepts SDPIF and a multichannel set of analog inputs.

With Steve's latest system upgrade, there is hope for him!!!;)

Sorry to disagree but I argue with facts, not fluff.:p

Jeff ignores that Theta's current DAC line of Premium, Superior II and Extreme
DACs should work fine with HDMI audio. Halcro's 1.1 HDMI is already as old as "Da Vinci" as their Vinci lab supplier is DOA.

I don't doubt the Theta DACs would work, but likely that box will be discarded. If there is any 'trade in', it will be like Lexicon's where you may a discounted price for a completely new product. (Unfortunately, the discount you'll get from Theta will be at the same level as what your dealer would normally give you - so no 'deal' at all). I don't see any upside to ATI retrofitting an old box. Most Theta owners have likely moved on.

I don't doubt the Theta DACs would work, but likely that box will be discarded. If there is any 'trade in', it will be like Lexicon's where you may a discounted price for a completely new product. (Unfortunately, the discount you'll get from Theta will be at the same level as what your dealer would normally give you - so no 'deal' at all). I don't see any upside to ATI retrofitting an old box. Most Theta owners have likely moved on.

Jeff, Theta largely did this when they did the CB2 to CB3 upgrade, which if I recall correctly was a substantial upgrade inside the unit of a lotta stuff. Yet the upgrade price then (four years ago) was $2,000 retail.

Actually most Theta CB3 owners, unlike the rabid ones on this forum, are happy with their CB3s and have yet to move up to the latest and greatest HD
Blu Ray (or defunct HD DVD) format(s). Most CB3 owners purchased from custom installers and are waiting for HDMI issues and reliability to shake out, unlike us early adopters.

Actually, in the past, Theta has always first made available to new purchasers the latest CB itineration; within several months Theta then determined upgrade feasability and costs for existing CB owners to upgrade;
and Theta then scheduled upgrades as they could while keeping costs reasonable.

I don't see any deviation from past performance in the current schedule. The new ATI Theta has the financial resources to deal with HDMI that Neil Sinclair, the prior owner, apparently didn't want to risk; ATI has their own line of surround processors as well and will share the HDMI licensing and development costs among ATI and Theta Digital products; and as Mike Pontelle of ATI told me some months ago, the HDMI upgrade for the CB is
the new Theta's priority with upgrade feasability and costs to be determined later.

The only chink/concern in the chain is that HDMI multi-channel audio and video appears to be more of a major upgrade than in prior CB itinerations
and existing CB owners are hoping that the new Theta will come out with something we can live with in this regard. Whereas you, the Eternal Theta basher, will eternally gripe and BS about a product you never owned and could care less about. TOUCHE!

Actually, I never commented on the CBII to CBIII upgrade...Why would I? (as that offered a substantial improvement...).

And I am not really bashing Theta at all, I am just stating facts about an old piece that had a great time in its hey day.

I'm not sure why they'd throw away the box, it seems like a perfectly viable thing. The box and power supply of any piece of gear is the most expensive part. A few different board upgrades and it shouldn't be a big issue.

On the other hand, we're quickly moving towards a point where the only thing necessary on a preamp will be 3-6 HDMIs, a couple of coax, a couple of optical and 7.1 analog out.

Besides, Jeff, don't you mean to add a "if you luck out with a working model" addendum to all the Halcro capabilities? :)

Besides, Jeff, don't you mean to add a "if you luck out with a working model" addendum to all the Halcro capabilities? :)

There does seem to be some truth to that with some folks here......

Jeff and Steve,you guys crack me up

sort of like trying to ram a dew worm up a wild cat's a$$ :)

my problem is trying to identify who is the dew worm

Jeff and Steve,you guys crack me up

sort of like trying to ram a dew worm up a wild cat's a$$ :)

my problem is trying to identify who is the dew worm

I ain't no "cat's a$$" but I ain't no "pussy" either!!!@@@

I think after what seems like years of regular Theta bashing by The Bland,
that The Bland's bicycle is now exercising backwards!!!@@@

Who started this thread??? I think someone here likes my Theta reality check speech...;)

Fan Boy, Reality Check. Reality Check, Fan Boy.

Or should i say Fan Esq :)

Oy Vay

Most Theta owners have likely moved on.

I do not think this is true at all. I am a CBIII owner and have decided to take several deep breaths and patiently await for the HDMI upgrade. It may take a few more months, but I believe the final product will be well worth the wait. Once available, I will also upgrade my projector and source to1080p.

I do not think this is true at all. I am a CBIII owner and have decided to take several deep breaths and patiently await for the HDMI upgrade. It may take a few more months, but I believe the final product will be well worth the wait. Once available, I will also upgrade my projector and source to1080p.

The Bland never "moved on", he "moved over". He never got a Theta CB3.
He tried - but he wasn't willing to pay anything and the then Theta refused The Bland's so generous offer of his wife's PR services for a free Theta surround processor. The Bland has even admitted this in threads at this forum. He's been takin' it out on Theta ever since for not including him in the "free club" - the nonexistent club that no one else is in. I get some good deals but sorry, I still pay dealer cost or above some. And imagine what The Bland's wife's PR advise would have been - "I can see in the future. Theta needs to go HDMI for multi-channel audio and video immediately or its long in the tooth and totally outdated" (and that advise was just as the very first HDMI for video only was coming out). HA!

Oy Vay

More like Oh SH_T!:D

Steve, it was clear to me that Theta wouldn't have been able to afford my wife's help, so it never happened. Unaware to me at that time was that they were in dire straits. They passed on some good advice. Too bad, they may've still had a company and a viable product.....that said, you know as well as I do that there will be no upgrade for the CBIII. Good to see you are aware of that as well and went Integra.;)

Double Oy

Steve, it was clear to me that Theta wouldn't have been able to afford my wife's help, so it never happened. Unaware to me at that time was that they were in dire straits. They passed on some good advice. Too bad, they may've still had a company and a viable product.....that said, you know as well as I do that there will be no upgrade for the CBIII. Good to see you are aware of that as well and went Integra.;)


A free CB would have afforded your wife's help. But Theta didn't make you the offer. You made them the offer. Theta refused. Apparently you value your wife's services much higher than they did (and you should). HA!

Jeff, this all occurred well before HDMI audio even became an issue, back when the CB3 was very current.

Funny. I'm the lawyer. But you are the shyster!!!@@:o

A free CB would have afforded your wife's help. But Theta didn't make you the offer. You made them the offer. Theta refused. Apparently you value your wife's services much higher than they did (and you should). HA!

Jeff, this all occurred well before HDMI audio even became an issue, back when the CB3 was very current.

Funny. I'm the lawyer. But you are the shyster!!!@@:o

Steve HDMI was always THE issue. We all knew that was the future.. Apparently you (and THeta) didn't. I imagine Theta has not sold a pre/pro in 2 years. Heck, they couldn't even get DVI right with their Valis.

Halcro has had it for 3 years and my Qualia with HDMI is 4 years old. And guess what, with my Halcro, I am enjoying lossless digital audio and your $15K Theta has been replaced by a better sounding $1500 pre/pro....Theta is very, very late to the game. They were a struggling company that needed advice. However, were not smart enough to know it (or afford it).

Rebuttal?

I've made similar offers to a few companies that needed marketing help, but sadly, the companies that most need it rarely admit it they need the help.

Halcro has had HDMI for 3 years?!? i'm not so sure about that one. Let alone working for 3 years. Vinci's first preamp with HDMI came out less than 2 years ago. Or are you counting mockups? :)

Steve HDMI was always THE issue. We all knew that was the future.. Apparently you (and THeta) didn't. I imagine Theta has not sold a pre/pro in 2 years. Heck, they couldn't even get DVI right with their Valis.

Halcro has had it for 3 years and my Qualia with HDMI is 4 years old. And guess what, with my Halcro, I am enjoying lossless digital audio and your $15K Theta has been replaced by a better sounding $1500 pre/pro....Theta is very, very late to the game. They were a struggling company that needed advice. However, were not smart enough to know it (or afford it).

Rebuttal?

This was back when you had auditioned a CB2 (but the CB3 was out) and you went with the Lexicon pre-HDMI version. You are so full of it.

Why don't you two clowns get a room!

On second thought, it is good reading.................never mind.......carry on!!

Bland, you're turn.................

Steve your memory is failing you. The problem with Theta was a couple of years ago. I was an owner of the Lexicon (pre-HDMI)..Check the archives. The fact is as Evelyn spent some time here a few months ago touting the health and upcoming HDMI upgrade for CBIII owners, it is now clear it was a big lie just to keep folks interested in the brand while she was out trying to dump it. And you think ATI is going to support the CBIII? No way. No reason to. Why sell CBIII owners a $3K upgrade when they'll likely spend $15K for the same thing in a new box?

Rebuttal!:D

Steve your memory is failing you. The problem with Theta was a couple of years ago. I was an owner of the Lexicon (pre-HDMI)..Check the archives. The fact is as Evelyn spent some time here a few months ago touting the health and upcoming HDMI upgrade for CBIII owners, it is now clear it was a big lie just to keep folks interested in the brand while she was out trying to dump it. And you think ATI is going to support the CBIII? No way. No reason to. Why sell CBIII owners a $3K upgrade when they'll likely spend $15K for the same thing in a new box?

Rebuttal!:D

Current CB owners will not throw away their CB3s and just buy a new one. Very few folks will do that. If that's your wife's market research working for a U.S. auto manufacturer, no wonder their in trouble!!!@@

Current CB owners will not throw away their CB3s and just buy a new one. Very few folks will do that. If that's your wife's market research working for a U.S. auto manufacturer, no wonder their in trouble!!!@@

Well, she headed up N. American marketing and advertising for big a foreign car maker. Not a US manufacturer:o..but she found a better job in cable and that is where she is today.:)

And yes. I am sure if ATI does any market research, they'll ask why sell a loyal Theta client a widget for $3K when they'll gladly pay more. Realistically, I see a $10K trade in to a new $15K Theta piece.

This is actually better than one with me and Alimentall

who is on first?

Well, she headed up N. American marketing and advertising for big a foreign car maker. Not a US manufacturer:o..but she found a better job in cable and that is where she is today.:)

And yes. I am sure if ATI does any market research, they'll ask why sell a loyal Theta client a widget for $3K when they'll gladly pay more. Realistically, I see a $10K trade in to a new $15K Theta piece.

You mean she left a sinking ship over to a budding HD industry!!! HA!
Careful, your boat is wobbling!

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised re a trade-in with an additional like $5K at retail for the new CB with HDMI incl multi-channel audio and video. We know that the HDMI license alone and costs for this revision will be much more substantial than prior CB upgrades. And a company has to make some profit.
I don't expect an upgrade to come in at only $2K like the CB2 to CB3 one.

And lets say that the new CB4 maintains the sonic attributes of the CB3 and also fully incorporates HDMI - this means for 5 grand retail CB3 owners, instead of having a mostly devalued surround processor (which is what happens to all surround processors generally when they're 4 years old and new technology has superceded), that for only $5K retail I'd have the latest and greatest. This is what Theta has been doing all along. And ATI acquiring Theta will hopefully allow the new Theta to continue this tradition, although the new CB4 or whatever its called will certainly have to cost a good brick more for the upgrade than in years past.



:cool:

Jeff, how much will Sony give you in trade-in for your Qualia004, if they ever come out with a replacement?

I imagine Theta has not sold a pre/pro in 2 years.

I suddenly feel extremely privileged to own such an esoteric piece of electronics.
The pride of ownership has become overwhelming.
That I should be the person to have the only CBIII built in recent memory is gratification that simply cannot be described.
The market research it took to uncover this closely guarded industry secret must have been astounding. And I will be the sole beneficiary!
Now I can only but "IMAGINE" the E-bay offers pouring in when news of my Goldmundesque type unit gets out.

On the other hand, should it turn out that it was theblands imagination and that there were others built in the past couple of years, I'd rather not know about it until I unload this sorry, useless POS....man, talk about buzz kill!

According to THE BLAND, Theta hasn't sold any CBs since they refused his offer to give him one at no cost in exchange for his wife's brilliant PR advise. Serves them right, doesn't it. And The Bland has been giving Theta owners nothing but sh!t to what seems like years since then!!!

According to THE BLAND, Theta hasn't sold any CBs since they refused his offer to give him one at no cost in exchange for his wife's brilliant PR advise.

I know I got mine for $100 over their cost with the agreement I tell everyone that hears it how awesome they are.
Then, if they want one, they all get the same deal.

I asked how they can do such a thing and was told that they found it to be much more profitable then just giving them away.
They say it's been Co. policy ever since some aspiring PR wannabe asked for a free one in exchange for marketing advice. The nerve of some people!
While it was a good idea, it needed some refinement, as most amateur ideas so often do.

This new policy worked well enough to get the company to market and sold for a pretty penny. Although, I've read a rumor that they were cash strapped
and forced to sell.

I also understand that the new owners have reverted to old marketing strategy of actually selling for a profit and paying professionals for marketing advice.
Odd I know, my opinion, it'll never work! :rolleyes:

According to THE BLAND, Theta hasn't sold any CBs since they refused his offer to give him one at no cost in exchange for his wife's brilliant PR advise. Serves them right, doesn't it. And The Bland has been giving Theta owners nothing but sh!t to what seems like years since then!!!

Well it certainly looks like they din't need the advice......:D NOT!!!

Apparently Evelyn got her advice from her Theta insider Steve to come around AVS and talk up the new HDMI upgrade while secretly trying to sell the company (and having absolutely no R + D done for HDMI). SPDIF seemed more important.... Thanks, Steve!! Now if I had a Theta, how would I feel now having to stoop to an Integra to take the place of my $15K idol. HA! Good to see the newbie at processors Halcro, saw HDMI as the way 3 years ago.. Theta, with their dated technology, went after those old CRT hold outs (mainly those with a Dwin).:)

Well it certainly looks like they din't need the advice......:D NOT!!!

Apparently Evelyn got her advice from her Theta insider Steve to come around AVS and talk up the new HDMI upgrade while secretly trying to sell the company (and having absolutely no R + D done for HDMI). SPDIF seemed more important.... Thanks, Steve!! Now if I had a Theta, how would I feel now having to stoop to an Integra to take the place of my $15K idol. HA! Good to see the newbie at processors Halcro, saw HDMI as the way 3 years ago.. Theta, with their dated technology, went after those old CRT hold outs (mainly those with a Dwin).:)

Imagination.

The Integra works fine as a stop gap for HDMI multi-channel audio processing, out multi-channel analog to the Six Shooter. Allows me to hook up both HD DVD and Blu Ray into the Integra via HDMI and then out to my CB3's Six Shooter. (In lieu of multi-channel analog out direct from the player to the Six Shooter) It works in combo with my CB3 and Six Shooter and doesn't replace them. And you know that.

As for the old Theta's motives in coming around AVS last summer and discussing HDMI, I don't know if Evelyn and Neil were seriously considering HDMI and determined it was too expensive and risky to play the game anymore, or if we were all being played. Lacking Jeff's mind reading talents.

Jeff, you really have no right to be SO UPSET after all these years having not got your free Theta CB.

NEWFLASH!!!

FROM THE PAGES OF "THE HIGHEST END" HOME THEATER MAGAZINE.

MARCH 2009 ISSUE.

Theta Digital Corp. was purchased by ATI about 18 months ago. ATI infused money into the company to develop its latest and greatest surround processor, the AB1 (Anti-Bland). This 1.3b HDMI surround processor continues Theta's tradition of high end surround processing, essentially including all the features of the prior Theta CB3, and adding on board processing of all the new high resolution audio formats, with six HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs, and with video pass through or processing/scaling up to 1080p.

Theta is overwhelmed by orders for new Anti-Blands. Theta will be announcing an upgrade/trade-in price and upgrade schedule for existing Theta CB3 owners within the next 60 days.

ATI-Theta's AB technology will also trickle down into ATI's surround processor line. And as ATI manufacturers amplifiers and audio components for over one hundred audio video companies, ATI is considering making a surround processor HDMI platform available for manufacture by ATI for other AV companies.

Well it certainly looks like they din't need the advice......:D NOT!!!

Apparently Evelyn got her advice from her Theta insider Steve to come around AVS and talk up the new HDMI upgrade while secretly trying to sell the company (and having absolutely no R + D done for HDMI). SPDIF seemed more important.... Thanks, Steve!! Now if I had a Theta, how would I feel now having to stoop to an Integra to take the place of my $15K idol. HA! Good to see the newbie at processors Halcro, saw HDMI as the way 3 years ago.. Theta, with their dated technology, went after those old CRT hold outs (mainly those with a Dwin).:)

I am sure you can see how happy I'd be to have a Theta today without HDMI...

I am sure you can see how happy I'd be to have a Theta today without HDMI...

You mean like this:

:confused::(:confused::(:confused::(:confused::(

Here I thought you were that way all the time regardless. Blame it on Theta,
when you never even bought one (or got one for free in exhange for the wife's PR services).:cool:

Great morning read :)

Better than going out for a morning jog. Feels as if I still burned off some calories. You guys truly crack me up.

SCORECARD:

After the 14th round, no clear knockout has landed. This fight could be a draw. One more round to go.

The Bland's most telling blow has been that the future is HDMI multi-channel audio and the current Theta CB3 doesn't do this so why would you buy a boat anchor? And he has skillfully avoided being labeled as out for vengeance due to Theta's refusal several years ago to give in to his demand for a free surround processor for his wife's PR services.

But the Bruzer has countered that when he has upgraded now twice since he originally bought the CB1 in 1997, approximately every four years, to the CB2 at a $800 retail upgrade cost, and to the CB3 for a $2,000 retail upgrade cost. And that yes, although the CB3 sounds great, for Blu Ray/HD DVD high resolution multi-channel audio, the CB3 falls short and requires revision ASAP.

The first 14 rounds have taken two years. The last round, the 15th, will take a projected 12 to 18 months. By then, if Theta has a new high end surround processor (whether called CB4 or whatever) with full HDMI, then The Bland will have to find something else to flap about as he gets up from the floor after being knocked silly. But if Theta doesn't, then The Bland will win by knockout in the last round and eventually the Bruzer's CB3 will go the way of all obsolete technologies - upgraded to something else!!!

Unless of course Blu Ray dives and fails and both Bruzer and The Bland are knocked out!!!@@

Geez, kids, shouldn't you each go to your own rooms for awhile? Obviously, Theta has some catching up to do, but obviously ATI is working on something. I suspect that they'll keep the Casablanca chassis *precisely* for good marketing. Otherwise, they'd piss off the loyalists and they'd lose what gave Theta their reputation. Salvaging it makes a lot of sense - it's a proof that they come through. If they don't, then they'll have to sell $5k and under processors trying to reclaim an entirely new market.

You know, I rarely agree with Steve, but I do think the anti-Theta rhetoric is overly harsh. I think it's better to wait and see. ATI wouldn't buy Theta to ruin it, at least, not on purpose. If anyone has a reason to be pessimistic about company buyouts, it's me, and i think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

So, maybe we should call it a draw. The 15th round is hereby rescheduled for CEDIA.

I don't know...at this point Theta is only a name. An old corpse with a new soul. A name and brand to be re-invented by ATI. To ATI, it was obviously a high end name that came at an inexpensive price. A Bear-Sterns type of purchase so to speak. A company that, on the cusp of HDMI and digital lossless, collapsed and decided to stay retro. And they did collapse.

So, though the box may be the same (with an ATI upgrade), the name may be the same, the product will be ATI. To me, this is a good thing. Evelyn et al hit a brick wall with HDMI and bailed. Likely they saw the constraints of the CBIII paltform and knew, deep down that it couldn't cost effectively be done.

Theta has no history here from where to go. HDMI is new. They tried DVI but failed. ATI could get some good engineers and make a great product. There will be bugs as Lexicon and Halcro owners can attest to. It won't be fun at first as this will be their first try at HDMI. On the other hand, they may slap something together and call it an upgraded CB III and sell it to the Theta masses for $5K or more so as to pacify the owners while they (hopefully) design and engineer a brand new platform for the new generation of lossless sound and HDMI video - divorcing the old box and engineering. I suspect this is exactly what Lexicon, Meridian, Halcro and the other big brands are doing as we speak. Their products won't go into their current chassis's, I guarantee it. This is where Theta should position themselves rather than blowing precious time and resources into an old, old chassis.

So, should ATI dwell on an old box simply to give owners another 'dated', retrofitted product (short term happiness) or should they spend their time and resources and go forward with an entirely new platform with no CB III constraints and compete with the big boys.

I say go brand new.

I say this as this would interest folks like myself would gladly pay the $15K for a true high end piece. My Halcro is fantastic (perhaps the best money can buy now), but it will be bettered in the next year or two....and that's when I'll jump. I would not spend this kind of coin for a retrofitted Theta product as would few others. I am looking forward to brand new from Lexicon, Meridian, Halcro. Heck, there are still clicks and pops with SPDIF and RS-232 has never worked on the CBIII. This is disappointing considering the demographic they play to. Many who buy this caliber of product use RS-232 control.

That said, a $5K upgrade may be a short term pacification for previous Theta owners but at the expense of many folks looking (and waiting) for a brand new platform to invest in for the long term. So, be careful what you wish for.

This is the time when new surround processor products are in desperate need by enthusiasts. Why go back to the past? That window has passed. Personally, that is why I see ATI going brand new and giving some sort of credit towards a new product. That is what Theta folks should root for.

Personally, I'm not sure why any one at this late date would still hold out for a Theta upgrade. It is an opportunity vault back to the top position they held a decade ago. A retrofit, in my opinion, would only seal their fate all over again....

. So, should ATI dwell on an old box simply to give owners another 'dated', retrofitted product (short term happiness) or should they spend their time and resources and go forward with an entirely new platform with no CB III constraints and compete with the big boys.

I say go brand new.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Personally, I'm not sure why any one at this late date would still hold out for a Theta upgrade. It is an opportunity vault back to the top position they held a decade ago. A retrofit, in my opinion, would only seal their fate all over again....

As I pointed out, the CB2 to CB3 "upgrade" was actually a major reworking of the insides. The next upgrade may well be an entirely new unit, but one which can utilize Premium/Sup II/Extreme DACs, power supply, maybe more from current unit. Then the upgrade cost would involve a trade-in. We don't disagree.

Steve, the CBII to CBIII upgrade involved nothing but changing the SPDIF audio and analog video inputs. Your analogy is completely invalid. It was just a revamping of the old product adding zero to how audio and video was handled. We were dealing with DVD afterall. Nothing ground breaking.

HDMI changes the audio and video completely. Analog video and SPDIF is over. You completely missed the point. The CBIII must be retired for Theta to remain viable.

Why waste your time with brand new technology trying to work in an old box designed before HDMI was even invented? It is the sure path to compromise and mediochrity.

Why not? Jeff, we know that a CBIV would necessarily be stripped down to the chassis and power supply, with the main circuit boards being removed and replaced. But you could design the board to support 4-6 of the existing cards, while having new bus for an HDMI card. Moreover, you could easily drop in a 'control' card with ethernet, RS-232, USB, and all the other newer goodies. There's nothing wrong with the CB chassis. if you have a good remote and all the right hookups in the back, there's no reason you can't make a CBIV that is world class and just as good, if not better than the Halcro.

i mean, goodness, i don't own a Halcro, but I could piss in your wheaties about it all day for all the more reliable and compatible they are. NAD has a $2k solution and they are able to update the software every 2-3 weeks on average. How long is it between Halcro updates?

Giving Steve the business can be fun and all, but i think you're really being unfair to basically a new company. You can't really base ATI Theta on what old Theta has or hasn't done, could or couldn't do. It's really early, but the e-mail they sent me was promising, though, i don't know that I can sit around with a paperweight for a year either.

In theory, it works but for folks considering buying into Theta, it stinks. It will look, feel and sound old next to a shiney new Meridian, Lexicon or Halcro.

Well, we all have suggestions for ATI. I'm just giving mine. Yes, my Halcro is great but I would not be interested in a new Halcro in the current box.

In theory, it works but for folks considering buying into Theta, it stinks. It will look, feel and sound old next to a shiney new Meridian, Lexicon or Halcro.

Meridian 800 chassis is older than the CB and it's still king of the hill except for HDMI. Lexicon's chassis is pretty close to as old in look and feel. The Halcro is new, but i don't see how there has been technological or ergonomic advances in chassis design. Not sure why a new box is necessary at all, especially if it leads to current customer satisfaction, while showing that their product has longevity and staying power. It would be like taking a mid-90s BMW and trying to make it more attractive. You can't, really and they didn't. My NAD preamp can do things the Halcro can't even do, but it isn't even close to as cool looking as the Theta.

Besides, if the CB remains the technological flagship, it will sell lots of lesser models in the under $10K range. To be honest, i hope your wife knows the marketing end of things more than you do!

'Meridian is king.....except HDMI'.....

Yes, it is the king of yesterday.

I'm not a marketer. I am a consumer. new, to me, is better.

Well, we all have suggestions for ATI. I'm just giving mine. Yes, my Halcro is great but I would not be interested in a new Halcro in the current box.

So, you're saying that in order to be 'better', the product has to look different/better? :confused: You're saying that if Halcro dramatically improved their unit and had an upgrade available for a few $thousand, you'd rather have a totally new box and pay 2-3 times as much, even if it is otherwise identical? I think that makes about one of you.

BTW, has anyone noticed how the Halcros look like the space ship in the old Lost in Space comic book from when [some of us] were kids?

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/9680/NewSFRBanner.gif

'Meridian is king.....except HDMI'.....

Yes, it is the king of yesterday.

Perhaps, but it is far more reliable than today's products. Meridian doesn't enter into stuff like HDMI until it actually works and it doesn't yet. Not even on the stuff we sell. Meridian doesn't beta test its stuff on customers, so they are always a bit slower to market. Just a different approach, not a wrong one.

HDMI makes things different than the old boxes designed for analog and SPDIF. Its not just the new box that I want, it is the brand new HDMI design and architecture that goes with it. A box designed for the future that is HDMI. If I am going to spend $15K on my next SSP, I want it fully new from the ground up. Period. Look at all the problems Lexicon, Halcro and Anthem have had..... If there was no HDMI, then I'm with you.

I'm not a marketer. I am a consumer. new, to me, is better.

Well, that is one way of looking at it, but not everyone sees it that way. Theta and Meridian people buy the product because they want something that works for more than a few years, not because they want an excuse to buy a new product every two years. Theta doesn't have to attract Halcro's type of customer, they have to attract Theta's type of customer. You can't be everything to everybody and as a consumer, you can't expect every company to conform to your expectations because then you have a very small customer base.

Theta's gig is upgradable modularity. Halcro's is sound quality, real or perceived. Not necessarily the same customer, though, if Theta can pull off a good CBIV, it could be.

HDMI makes things different than the old boxes designed for analog and SPDIF. Its not just the new box that I want, it is the brand new HDMI design and architecture that goes with it. A box designed for the future that is HDMI. If I am going to spend $15K on my next SSP, I want it fully new from the ground up. Period. Look at all the problems Lexicon, Halcro and Anthem have had..... If there was no HDMI, then I'm with you.

That's what I'm saying. "If you're going to spend $15K". The point is to try to avoid you having to do that because most customers won't spend that every two years. They can't. That's my point. Are you saying that if Halcro dramatically improved your unit for a $5K upgrade fee, you'd say no and buy someone else's $15K machine of equal caliber, just to have a new chassis?

Besides, as far as I know, there is no new HDMI standard on the way any time soon, nor any reason to believe that current architecture would be incompatible.

Theta better make folks like their gig or their arrogance will cause them to founder again.

Theta better make folks like their gig or their arrogance will cause them to founder again.

Jeff, most of these companies are founded and sell almost exclusively through arrogance. The arrogance that no one else can do what they can. The arrogance in marketing that no one should buy anything else. That their stuff alone is 'the best'. That describes pretty much *all* of high-end. But it doesn't always translate to home theater. And I don't think anyone has ever used that term to describe ATI, either in their attitude or their marketing. They make good stuff, they deliver. It's a good company to buy Theta. And very likely capable of building something you'd like to own.

The old Theta is dead, why not let your scorn for them die along with it? How long do you intend to hold not getting a free unit against a dead company? It's over, you won. The Theta that wronged you is dead. Let it go!

BTW, has anyone noticed how the Halcros look like the space ship in the old Lost in Space comic book from when [some of us] were kids?

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/9680/NewSFRBanner.gif

NO....

http://www.halcro.com/logic/images/products/ssp100_lg.jpg

YES :)

http://www.halcro.com/images/products/dm88_lg.jpg

http://www.halcro.com/images/products/dm10_lg.jpg

The old Theta is dead, why not let your scorn for them die along with it? How long do you intend to hold not getting a free unit against a dead company? It's over, you won. The Theta that wronged you is dead. Let it go!

Or the Theta that The Bland wronged (give me a free surround processor - or I eternally badmouth your company) is gone!!!!

If I was to let it die, then this homorous thread would go belly up.

So I'll march forward.... ATI! Say 'No' to upgrades in the old box! All new!

Steve, I like my free Halcro better.

If I was to let it die, then this homorous thread would go belly up.

So I'll march forward.... ATI! Say 'No' to upgrades in the old box! All new!

So say within 18 months Theta comes out with a brand new box high end HDMI surround processor.

Will you pay retail say $15K less say a pain in the butt consumer discount of 15%?

Or do you wanna renew your offer for your wife's services in exchange?

That opportunity for Theta has passed. My wife works for a major cable network now. Theta would have been a pet project for her but they chose to ignore it... and look what happened. It worked out for me as, like you, I'd be running an Integra!!:D

That opportunity for Theta has passed. My wife works for a major cable network now. Theta would have been a pet project for her but they chose to ignore it... and look what happened. It worked out for me as, like you, I'd be running an Integra!!:D

But you play no music, stereo or multi-channel, to speak of on your system. My CB3 and Six Shooter remain outstanding for this and this is very important to me and of no importance to you. My Integra is working fine for my HD DVD & Blu Ray needs but doesn't sound as good on all the other stuff I listen to as my CB3 and Six Shooter.

Some "opportunity". Give me a free $15,000 surround processor. My wife will give you a bit of PR advise. In legal speakeasy that's called illusory to anyone bland enough to do it.

Meridian 800 chassis is older than the CB and it's still king of the hill except for HDMI.A new 800 chassis (and display) has been predicted.

Kal, as I tried to tell Steve... Meridian and other heavies will have a new chassis. It is time. That said, I believe Theta will do so as well and forget the old box.

Kal, as I tried to tell Steve... Meridian and other heavies will have a new chassis. It is time. That said, I believe Theta will do so as well and forget the old box.

I'm sure the old box will be history, too. That doesn't mean that there won't be some sort of upgrade/trade-in price.

Steve, I like my free Halcro better.

I don't think you're kidding, either.

Was it your wife's services this time.

Or that you won't bad mouth them like you have Theta?:)

Well....then what good would this thread be if I bashed Halcro?

What's more important for Theta:

HDMI 1.3 ASAP

-or-

New preamp w/HDMI

thoughts?

Dan

Well.... my stance is clear. There will sson be a brand new Lexicon, Halcro, and Meridian. If Theta uses the old chassis the perception AND reality will be a compromised, retrofitted (and expensive) pre pro.

The only positive by doing an add on is to beta test their HDMI stability with upgraders so as to perfect it in a future processor (if they are still around).

Well....then what good would this thread be if I bashed Halcro?


Besides the fact that you'd violate your "non-bash for free" agreement.:D

What's more important for Theta:

HDMI 1.3 ASAP

-or-

New preamp w/HDMI

thoughts?

Dan


To existing CB3 owners who have supported Theta over the years, HDMI 1.3 ASAP.

To existing non-Theta owner and basher eternally, a new preamp w/HDMI.

Dan, I really don't see the difference. I think Theta is gonna have to revamp the chassis anyway, but can reuse Premium/Superior 2/Extreme DAC cards, hopefully power supply, maybe DD/DPL2/DTS card, maybe even the chassis
and display with a lotta new insides?

I'm sure the old box will be history, too.

There is a difference between a new chassis and a completely new box.

The Casablanca has already undergone one chassis change, some people may not be aware of that but they managed to retain the old box.
What makes you so certain that the old box will be history?

Not that I couldn't see them going to some sort of square front panel display with a video type screen, like so many others but this statement of yours just seems rather matter of fact.

I kinda like the look of this "old box"!

I give credit to Jeff for his honesty. He admits that he contacted Theta and offered them his wife's PR services for a free surround processor. That takes BALLS!!!@@

Well, I promise you they will still be around. But the question of whether it's more important for there to be an HDMI solution now versus later (in a new processor) is what I'm after.

My thinking is that they need SOME form of an HDMI solution now- if nothing else than to allow for current owners of the CB to be able to take advantage of the new audio codecs. Custom installers, as a group in general, care less about the "benefits" of HDMI considering that most large installations require some form of HD video distribution via Autopatch or Crestron or AMX- so they're using component still. BUT, in a dedicated theater application, HDMI becomes important for video to a projector and for the new audio formats.

My personal guess is that we're going to be screwed again in a couple years by some other interface anyway (displayport?)- so is it really viable for companies like Meridian or Theta to invest in development of a whole new processor with HDMI at this point to have it replaced by the time that manufacturing is actually up and rolling? Or, is it better for these companies to provide some form of an HDMI solution while they can restructure/redesign/develop NEW processors that aren't so vulnerable to obsolescence?

When you really look at what the CB does: specialize in audio, it isn't THAT far behind the curve- it's really only within the last 12 months that audio via HDMI hasn't been a giant turd anyway. First it was DD/DTS via HDMI 1.1-1.2 (sounded like crap, when it worked), then came 7.1 LPCM sounded much better (when it worked), then came 7.1 LPCM that was actually pretty stable (as long as you upgraded your firmware weekly), then Vinci labs tanks....leaving companies like Halcro, Parasound, et al in the lurch to try to find a new OEM as quickly as possible.

Possible savior: Pioneer announces the BDP-05FD or something like that, that contains the ability to decode all of the new codecs internally and pass the audio via 8 channel analog pre-outs....this works for now (or I should say when it finally ships this summer) and at the low, low price of 1k retail.

Halcro, although they're a great group of people- is a really small fish, so is Theta, so is Anthem. Companies like Lexicon (HCG), Denon, Onkyo, and Sony are the ones with the capital to play this game- and they're doing so....unfortunately, all we seem to get are receivers (but that's where the real money is anyway).

Consumers like Jeff, Steve, MBurnstein, OB, Art, JBM007, tzucc, etc are the exception- not the rule. So as fun as it is to pontificate on the shortcomings of the high-end, realize that the rest of the industry is engaged in a race to the bottom (margins, product quality, reliability, etc.) It appears that the big-dogs of this industry are all-too concerned with cutting each-other's throats rather than expanding the pinnacle of their development prowess. I can't say I blame them, it's much easier to sell several thousand receivers to Best Buy, than it is to sell a few hundred preamps to people like us, and then have to support them..

So, gentlemen, which would you rather have: a little bit of something (HDMI solution) or all of nothing (new HDMI processor). I ask because on a couple points, Jeff is absolutely right: a new processor will take close to 18 months to develop and release, but a HDMI solution of some form (outboard box, card, or something that involves both) could probably come to fruition much sooner....

Dan

I give credit to Jeff for his honesty. He admits that he contacted Theta and offered them his wife's PR services for a free surround processor. That takes BALLS!!!@@

And a purple Cadillac with gold rims ;)

[joke, seriously, just a joke!]

omg, lets see how many more times the PR service will be mentioned in this completely useless thread. back and forth, mines longer than yours. geez, nobody knows whats gonna happen. i say yes, you say no. must it continue for the next 10 pages. talk about having nothing to do with AVS!!!:mad:

C'mon Anthony

Usually it is Lawyers vs doctors. I am enjoying the dentist get into it with AVS resident attorney at law. Sit down, pop a brew and relax as the two of them having nothing useful to say.
I say "potato", you say "potatoe"....you know what I mean

C'mon Anthony

Usually it is Lawyers vs doctors. I am enjoying the dentist get into it with AVS resident attorney at law. Sit down, pop a brew and relax as the two of them having nothing useful to say.
I say "potato", you say "potatoe"....you know what I mean

I knew Art is an Orthodontist.

But Jeff a Dentist? Really? No wonder why he wants free stuff. He doesn't make the big bucks like the Orthodontists of AVS. Moreover, when I banter with Jeff, its like he's pulling my teeth. With Art I feel like its a straight on respectable conversation (cause he straightens teeth, Jeff pulls them).

omg, lets see how many more times the PR service will be mentioned in this completely useless thread. back and forth, mines longer than yours. geez, nobody knows whats gonna happen. i say yes, you say no. must it continue for the next 10 pages. talk about having nothing to do with AVS!!!:mad:

So pray tell what your post does to contribute to the substance of this thread? And why do you read a "completely useless thread"? Why don't you have me on your ignore list. Please.:D

Yeah Anthony!!

Nobody is making you read this thread.

No go away and leave the rest of us to our "entertainment"!

You think these two are replying to each other from the same computer????

Something to think about.

So, gentlemen, which would you rather have: a little bit of something (HDMI solution) or all of nothing (new HDMI processor). I ask because on a couple points, Jeff is absolutely right: a new processor will take close to 18 months to develop and release, but a HDMI solution of some form (outboard box, card, or something that involves both) could probably come to fruition much sooner....

Dan

Dan, it all takes time to develop. Even a HDMI card will involve lotsa redoin' stuff inside the CB3. It makes more sense for ATI-Theta to do it right, and then use strides made with the new platform (though using existing DACs, etc.) throughout the Theta and ATI product line. And mebbe as ATI manufactures so much stuff for other companies they'll start doing this on HDMI AV processing, too. You never know.

I knew Art is an Orthodontist.

But Jeff a Dentist? Really? No wonder why he wants free stuff. He doesn't make the big bucks like the Orthodontists of AVS. Moreover, when I banter with Jeff, its like he's pulling my teeth. With Art I feel like its a straight on respectable conversation (cause he straightens teeth, Jeff pulls them).

Most of my best customers are dentists. They make way more than doctors and most lawyers. One of my dentist customers has 6 surround and 4 stereo systems (last count) that cost an average of about $20K each, not including TVs.

As in anything, it's volume, volume, volume!

So pray tell what your post does to contribute to the substance of this thread? And why do you read a "completely useless thread"? Why don't you have me on your ignore list. Please.:D

well i don't have anyone on my ignore list since once in a while everyone does contribute to good topics at hand. i realize no one is holding a gun to my head to read this thread, and that yes it was funny in the beginning, but i just don't see it going anywhere further. its quite clear that neither side will "give-in" and each has his own valid arguement. thats all my point is. not raining on anyone in particular either, as i've never owned either companies products.

Most of my best customers are dentists. They make way more than doctors and most lawyers.


Thats because a Dentist has 32 customers per client!

well i don't have anyone on my ignore list since once in a while everyone does contribute to good topics at hand. i realize no one is holding a gun to my head to read this thread, and that yes it was funny in the beginning, but i just don't see it going anywhere further. its quite clear that neither side will "give-in" and each has his own valid arguement. thats all my point is. not raining on anyone in particular either, as i've never owned either companies products.

Congrats. You have just contributed. Neither side will "give-in". Though if I'd send something substantial to Jeff for free he might!!!:D

Thats because a Dentist has 32 customers per client!

Dentists are also recession proof more than anyone else.

Last night on "Medium", a dentist was the bad guy. Now if Jeff is indeed a dentist he's not all that bad.:D

I need a bag of popcorn

I need a bag of popcorn

How about candy. Then our resident dentist can heal your cavities and afford to buy his next surround processor instead of insisting on a freebie!


Bruzer vs Bland. KNOCKOUT punch delivered.

Good night