I am curious to understand why DLP manufacturers are holding back building DLP units that have longer lens throw as well as decent lens shift? Is this one of those slow-release-milk-the-consumer-as-you-go things or is there an actual technical limitation to being able to build such units?

I am curious to understand why DLP manufacturers are holding back building DLP units that have longer lens throw as well as decent lens shift? Is this one of those slow-release-milk-the-consumer-as-you-go things or is there an actual technical limitation to being able to build such units?


There's not as high a demand for those things as you might imagine there to be. DLP technology does make it a little more difficult but not excessively or expensively so. There are DLPS out there with lens shift and longer throw but as you noted, it's typically on the more expensive units. The total market for home theater digital projection is so small that there is no real concern that DLP is losing a large number of customers over it.

I'm on my third DLP and have never had a need for lens shift. The different mounts I have used all had sufficient adjustment to cover for any measurement errors I made. Also, putting a moving part (which can go out of adjustment) in my projector rather than my mount seems backwards.

Longer lenses I could appreciate, the newer crop of Optoma's forces me to move my projector from near the back wall to 4 feet forward.

I'm wondering that too, OP. I would have bought the Benq 5000 if it was more flexible with its placement.

Lens shift would be nice, and a longer zoom range would allow you to do the poor man's Constant Image Height. These are features that often shift a person's choice from DLP to LCD. I personally like the picture of DLPs better, but if I was buying today, I'd probably purchase an LCD solely for these features. Of course I would also consider LCOS as their prices are dropping rapidly and they usually have lens shift and a relatively long zoom range.

Jim

The new LCD pjs have really closed the gap in regards to black levels and contrast. Once you've experienced the ease of setting up a pj with lens shift and a decent throw range you'll never go back to the fixed offset, short throw pjs. What's with short throw pjs anyway, who wants to mount your projector a few feet in front of your seating position? And why should we have to choose between massive offsets that require keystoning issues, or using drop tubes that place the pj a foot over our heads? It's high time dlps got with the program, adapt or get left behind!

I have a tough room, I would prefer a DLP(as I had one B4- didn't fit the room well- but PQ was better) to the LCD I own now.
Without question!!

Give me a reasonably priced DLP, that has ZERO offset (or lens shift), and I'm all over it...forget this LCD stuff ( I call it stuff here, I think it is actually much worse).
Zero offset would be awesome...it's idiocy that they try and force folks to use that lousy offset(ummmm they HAVE to know that not everyone has a perfect setup for ceiling or table mount- Shelf mount!!), when they are losing sales(and HAVE been for awhile) because of it...
Instead of rehashing the same stuff every year with just an additional feature, why not make that a feature folks can REALLY use?

I reluctantly shelf mount my DLP projector in my bedroom. I take the projector down when I am done watching, but parts of the shelf are permanently on the wall, making my bedroom kind of ugly. Lens shift would my life a lot easier. LCD will probably be history if the DLP people figure out a way to put lens shift in their projectors.

...who wants to mount your projector a few feet in front of your seating position? And why should we have to choose between massive offsets that require keystoning issues, or using drop tubes that place the pj a foot over our heads? It's high time dlps got with the program, adapt or get left behind!

Who is looking up? The screen is straight ahead.

Only low ceilings are going to force someone to angle their PJ and then use keystone correction.

If there is a massive offset, what's the droptube for? No offset PJs are the ones that need the droptube.

Get with the program? DLPs sell quite well and still lead easily in same scene ansi contrast.

Use too much lens shift and you wind up with convergence issues.

I reluctantly shelf mount my DLP projector in my bedroom. I take the projector down when I am done watching, but parts of the shelf are permanently on the wall, making my bedroom kind of ugly. Lens shift would my life a lot easier. LCD will probably be history if the DLP people figure out a way to put lens shift in their projectors.Why not just ceiling mount it and be done with it? Why the shelf?

Why not just ceiling mount it and be done with it? Why the shelf?

Don't have the option of drilling holes in the wall to run the wires. And I want the room to look like a bedroom, not a home theater.

Don't have the option of drilling holes in the wall to run the wires. And I want the room to look like a bedroom, not a home theater.
Putting it on a night stand won't work?

Putting it on a night stand won't work?

Not really unless I am comfortable with the fan blowing heat at me and my ears close to the noise, not to mention maximum horizontal keystone because to projector has to placed on one side of the room -- not in the center.

I posted some pictures of my system under the "What's your system configuration" thread -- if you want to see what it looks like.

I think there are technical hurdles which make lens shift more expensive for DLPs.

I think there are technical hurdles which make lens shift more expensive for DLPs.

That makes sense for lens shift, but you'd think they could at least add a longer zoom range.

Jim

I also would like to see some DLP projectors come out with a 2:1 zoom lens and decent lens shift. Not everybody has the option of placing a projector within the narrow parameters dictated by a 1.2:1 lens.

The total market for home theater digital projection is so small that there is no real concern that DLP is losing a large number of customers over it.

And their market size is never going to increase until they make their projectors more versatile. They need a long zoom lens with decent lens shift to overcome placement issues. LCD projector manufacturers seem to have figured this out. Why can't the DLP manufacturers see it?

That makes sense for lens shift, but you'd think they could at least add a longer zoom range.

JimI agree with you there. The HD65 has 1600 lumens, the least they could have done was give us a 2.0 zoom instead of 1.1.

I also would like to see some DLP projectors come out with a 2:1 zoom lens and decent lens shift. Not everybody has the option of placing a projector within the narrow parameters dictated by a 1.2:1 lens.



And their market size is never going to increase until they make their projectors more versatile. They need a long zoom lens with decent lens shift to overcome placement issues. LCD projector manufacturers seem to have figured this out. Why can't the DLP manufacturers see it?I thought that Texas Instruments was the ONLY DLP manufacturer. I would have presumed that they would be on top of how to enhance DLP (chip) sales (they had a bunch of stalls @ CEDIA touting DLP - they even gave away goodie bags that said "It's amazing. It's the mirrors". :D :D).

Then again, they probably have no control over their buyers (PJ manufacturers). It seems to me that the projector manufacturers want to cash in on DLP advantages/pros first - they may gradually offer these enhancements, initially in higher-end units. Single chip DLP units involve a color wheel, it may be harder to house all that together in a single housing (for lens shift, etc. Although I am just guessing). I am not sure however, how hard it would be to offer a better zoom capability.

I also would like to see some DLP projectors come out with a 2:1 zoom lens and decent lens shift. Not everybody has the option of placing a projector within the narrow parameters dictated by a 1.2:1 lens.



And their market size is never going to increase until they make their projectors more versatile. They need a long zoom lens with decent lens shift to overcome placement issues. LCD projector manufacturers seem to have figured this out. Why can't the DLP manufacturers see it?

Lens shift introduces problems to the image that only expensive optics can minimize or correct. You are not going to see that in the lowest cost DLPs. I see a lot of the lower end LCD owners complaining about what lens shift does to their image.

Regardless of technology, the closer you can put your PJ to the spot where lens shift and other corrections are not needed, the better your image will be. More and more of the marketplace for PJs consists of those who are planning ahead to make sure they can do just that.

Who is looking up? The screen is straight ahead.

Me - The increased noise DLPs produce is annoying enough, but when the PJ is directly over your head it's even worse! DLPs with limited offsets like Sharp, Marantz, etc. require drop tubes that place the PJ too close to the viewers head.

Only low ceilings are going to force someone to angle their PJ and then use keystone correction.

Me - With fixed offsets you are forced to mount the screen where the PJ demands. Even with 8 foot ceilings that can be too low, making you then angle the PJ.

If there is a massive offset, what's the droptube for? No offset PJs are the ones that need the droptube.

Me - Exactly! Massive offset or no offset, either way you're fighting the PJ.

Get with the program? DLPs sell quite well and still lead easily in same scene ansi contrast.

Me - Yes, but once you've experienced the luxury of lens shift and increased zoom most won't want to go back to struggling with DLPs.

Use too much lens shift and you wind up with convergence issues.

With most modern LCD PJs the lens shift is so extensive that you'd be hard pressed to reach the limits where that would be an issue.

With most modern LCD PJs the lens shift is so extensive that you'd be hard pressed to reach the limits where that would be an issue.Maybe so but it is the most common complaint I read in this forum.

With the typical range of lens shift you'd need to place the PJ on the floor or 12 feet in the air to reach the shift limits!

720p single chip DC3 DLP
1600 Lumens
3000:1 Contrast
HQV processing
2:1 zoom
minor lens shifting

$999. And I think many of us here would go gaga over it.

720p single chip DC3 DLP
1600 Lumens
3000:1 Contrast
HQV processing
2:1 zoom
minor lens shifting

$999. And I think many of us here would go gaga over it.

I think you're right. The lack of vertical lens shift prevented me from considering DLP in my latest projector upgrade.

A certain big box warehouse has the Optoma HD7100 for $999. It has Darkchip 3, lens shift, and all the DLP attributes. Of course, it has a limited short throw zoom, and is a bit noisy, but for the price, it doesn't seem like a bad deal. (if it works for your room of course!)

A certain big box warehouse has the Optoma HD7100 for $999. It has Darkchip 3, lens shift, and all the DLP attributes. Of course, it has a limited short throw zoom, and is a bit noisy, but for the price, it doesn't seem like a bad deal. (if it works for your room of course!)

No HDMI. Which is a big minus.

No HDMI. Which is a big minus.

Not really. It does have DVI and since you're not going to be transferring audio to the projector, it shouldn't be much of a problem. There are HDMI to DVI adapters available inexpensively.

Jim

In my room, the ideal throw ratio is just over 2:1 and the ideal offset is about 33%.

My previous Infocus DLP unit met these numbers pretty much spot on. My current Infocus 7210 had a shorter throw which meant I had to move the unit forward by a foot and had less offset which forced me to drop the unit down by about 6". Both things put the PJ closer to my head and the unit being mounted on a short drop tube rather than flush to the ceiling makes the wires much more noticeable if you look up at the projector.

I've been waiting to upgrade to a DLP unit since 2003. I can't fit any of the low to middle entry units into my theater room. My Z3 has worked above expectations in the meantime. Hopefully one day I'll be able to try out a dlp unit.

Here are some pictures of my $20 shelf. It's messy with the power cord an HDMI cable. That's why I take it off when I am done watching. It's not that bad. It takes about 20 seconds to put it up and about 10 seconds to take it down.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg5/davidtr1/More%20HT%20Stuff/IMG_0125.jpg

Taking everything off still leaves two brackets on the wall. For a bedroom, it's kind of ugly.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg5/davidtr1/More%20HT%20Stuff/IMG_0135.jpg

Lens shift would let me place it on a night stand, eliminating the need to install anything on the wall. Putting it away after use would be easier too.

Seems to me that I've read a lot of folks here on this forum who are more than willing to sacrafice a little picture quality, and are willing to pay a little more, in order to get easier placement. Thus the popularity of the low end LCD's with massive lens shift. Seems weird to me personally, but then ceiling mount is what works best in my living room anyway (with two little kids, I like the projector up and out of the way). It was a no brainer for me to go with DLP, since the throw and offset of the typical DLP projector fits perfectly into my existing space.

I can certainly see the marketing advantage of having lens shift though, and would assume they would be introducing it if they could. I'd hate to see DLP go away for the sake of convenience.

The new LCD pjs have really closed the gap in regards to black levels and contrast. Once you've experienced the ease of setting up a pj with lens shift and a decent throw range you'll never go back to the fixed offset, short throw pjs. What's with short throw pjs anyway, who wants to mount your projector a few feet in front of your seating position? And why should we have to choose between massive offsets that require keystoning issues, or using drop tubes that place the pj a foot over our heads? It's high time dlps got with the program, adapt or get left behind!

YEEEEEEAAAAH!!! F- the DLP. Read the thread in >$3K Forum about the new DC4 Optoma HD83...its a riot.

I reluctantly shelf mount my DLP projector in my bedroom. I take the projector down when I am done watching, but parts of the shelf are permanently on the wall, making my bedroom kind of ugly. Lens shift would my life a lot easier. LCD will probably be history if the DLP people figure out a way to put lens shift in their projectors.

Well, DLPs been around for over a decade and they still haven't figured it out (much less a decent zoom)...so, I guess LCD will "squeak by" for a few more decades at the rate DLPs going.

I agree with you there. The HD65 has 1600 lumens, the least they could have done was give us a 2.0 zoom instead of 1.1.

For under $1K? Are you kidding, DLP doesn't offer this kind of lens shift on their $20K pjs...just look at Sim2, Runco/Vidikron, Marantz...DLP is just too limited to stay competitive any longer now that LCD and LCOS have caught up in contrast.

I wish HD-DVD would've taken DLP with it when it cratered...

YEEEEEEAAAAH!!! F- the DLP. Read the thread in >$3K Forum about the new DC4 Optoma HD83...its a riot.Read a little closer, its the Infocus IN83 and that thread is the typical back and forth you see in all the technology battle threads.

With LCD just catching up to DC2, I'll stick with my DLP PJ.

For under $1K? Are you kidding, DLP doesn't offer this kind of lens shift on their $20K pjs...just look at Sim2, Runco/Vidikron, Marantz...DLP is just too limited to stay competitive any longer now that LCD and LCOS have caught up in contrast.

I wish HD-DVD would've taken DLP with it when it cratered...

Your hatred knows no bounds...

You should talk to Epson who makes LCD panels about paying the other PJ companies off like Sony did with the studios. Maybe you might get your wish...

;)

Not is just about PQ. I hear about burned polarizer and dust blob problems with LCD projectors enough to make me not consider them. My HD70 has not given me any problem.

I wish HD-DVD would've taken DLP with it when it cratered...

Now that's funny.

Re: Dust blobs- Any device without a completely sealed optics assembly would have a chance of being affected by this type of problem. Are all DLP's built this way?