Just purchased a 46" LCD and looking to put together a 5.1 surround system with what little I have left in my budget. I have decided on a Denon 2808CI for the receiver and I need advice on a decent speaker setup.

My budget: around $700 - $900
Room dimensions: 14' X 20' with 10' ceiling and huge opening into kitchen
Use: 60% movies 40% gaming (PS3)

I currently have a 15 yr old pair of KLH 3-way floor speakers with a KLH center speaker. The options that I have come up with are:

Option 1...Spend about $500 on a good sub (SVS PB10-NSD or HSU VTF-2 MK3) and use the remaining $200 - $400 for two good rear speakers to go with the three KLH's up front.

Option 2...Get the same $500 sub and use the rest to replace my old speakers with a budget 5.0 speaker set.

Option 3...Get a BIC H100 sub for $250 leaving me with $450 - $650 for a better 5.0 set.

Not sure whether it is worth trying to incorporate my old KLH's in my setup. Something tells me it will not balance properly with the other speakers. If I decide to dump the old speakers, does it make sense to spend more on a good quality sub or maybe L/R mains? Which would make the most difference?

Specific speaker recommendations are welcome.

I'm going to suggest against getting the Denon 2808CI. Not because it is a bad receiver or anything, but because I think you would be better off putting some of that money towards your speakers. If I was you I would be looking at receivers around the $500 price point. Also I would wait until after you select your speakers to decide what receiver to buy. The speakers are by far more important in how you system will sound. So you don't want the receiver to limit your speaker selection. With the $500-$700 savings from getting the cheaper receiver you could get a very good 5.1 setup.

If you are happy with the KLH fronts, drop the money on the sub first. It will probably make the biggest impact on your listening. You might want to even increase the sub budget and drop like $100-$200 on the surrounds for now. A $700 sub and $200 bookshelves will make a huge impact. You can always upgrade the front stage down the line.

If you are unhappy with the front stage, I would say spend all the budget on the L/R and maybe the center, then get the sub and surrounds down the line. There are a ton of B&M and ID companies that are favorites on AVS. I recently put together a 7.1 system from Elemental Designs (http://www.edesignaudio.com/) and I highly recommend their full-range and especially their subs. Good luck.

This is what I would do "from reading your post". Most of your use is for movies, the rest for gaming. I see no mention of music. So, I would spend the money alloted for speakers on a good center channel and a good sub. You need a good, clear sounding center channel since that is where the majority of the talking comes from in movies. A good sub is needed because most current movies now have a lot of deep bass.

I don't know how good your KLH floor standers are, but if you want to buy possibly better sounding L & R front mains, then I would consider (pending spousal approval, etc.) moving the KLH to the back and using them as your surrounds for now.

My personal opinion only here, if you do not plan on listening to good quality surround sound music, then rear speakers are not nearly as important (soundwise) for HT listening as they are for music listening. After all, they are "affects" speakers. (could your mains also be called "affects" speakers in HT?). So, what I am saying is that I think the rear surrounds should be farther down the scale for purchasing. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to match all the speakers, if possible, but for what you posted, I don't think you need to.

Maybe someone else will give you much better advice/opinions here.

Good luck, Frank

Thanks guys for the feedback...This is some great advice. I have been doing a lot of reading on this forum trying to learn. I am finding out that the more I learn, the more I realize how much more learning I have left to do.

Here are a my responses:

ericm83 - The reason that I chose the Denon 2808 is because I want a good quality receiver that supports HDMI 1.3 and decodes DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD formats (eventhough my PS3 does have that last one covered). I looked at the lower priced Onkyo's that had these capabilities (ie 605, 705), and I just saw too many negative reviews of these. I have not seen a really bad review of the Denon yet. If you have any others in mind, I would be happy to hear about them. I am not fixed on the Denon yet (but I'm close).

cornwiniii - Is there a way you could describe the sound difference between the $500 subs that I mentioned and one in the $700 range? I need to somehow justify the cost/benefit in my mind. If there is a huge difference, I may go for it. Do you have any specific subs in mind?

gimpy - I liked your decription of the role that each speaker plays in a HT setup. It put things more in perspective for me. I know I did not mention music in my original post. However after auditioning several high end speaker systems, I have come to appreciate how much better music can sound on great speakers. I may be retiring the KLH's and listening to more music. I probably will not be able to get into a set of 'great' speakers, but I hope to find a good set that performs well for movies and music.

In my research, I came across a set of budget speakers that come highly recommended. Here they are: BIC DV62CLRS (center) $110, BIC DV64 (front L/R) $103, BIC DV62si (rear L/R) $55. Someone even suggested using the DV62CLRS as front L/R and center together. Another thing that I found out about these is that there is a crossover mod by a guy named Ed Frias which will make a huge impact on the sound of these speakers. Anybody had any experience with these?

Snodwog

cornwiniii - Is there a way you could describe the sound difference between the $500 subs that I mentioned and one in the $700 range? I need to somehow justify the cost/benefit in my mind. If there is a huge difference, I may go for it. Do you have any specific subs in mind?

Have you looked at the Craigsub sub review thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136)?

The two you mention are priced higher, but scored lower than subs from other ID companies. So, for $700 you'll get "more bang for the buck;" like spending $2000 on a sub from a B&M. This equates to better sound and much more slam. So the question is do you need it in that room and is that important to you for HT viewing? My philosophy is to buy just a little more than I need to future proof, but that's me. Would $500 work? Probably. The two that seem the most popular are the A3-300 or A5-350 from elemental designs and the av123 MFW-15. They have wait times though so I think many people are choosing to buy from the two companies you mentioned (SVS and Hsu) to get something sooner; however, I feel that you have to spend more to get equivalent output from SVS and Hsu.

In my research, I came across a set of budget speakers that come highly recommended. Here they are: BIC DV62CLRS (center) $110, BIC DV64 (front L/R) $103, BIC DV62si (rear L/R) $55. Someone even suggested using the DV62CLRS as front L/R and center together. Another thing that I found out about these is that there is a crossover mod by a guy named Ed Frias which will make a huge impact on the sound of these speakers. Anybody had any experience with these?

I don't know anything about these, but are they really better than what you have already? I haven't done the research, but that would be the question I'd try to answer. BIC is budget stuff, so are you going to hear a significant enough difference in these speakers versus the KLH you have now?

I think I still like my original advice, but I can appreciate the desire and excitement to get new stuff.

PS - I have an Onkyo 705 I bought refurb for $429 shipped. So far it has worked great and I'm very happy with it. I haven't looked at the Denon at all though to compare.

I know how you feel. Read for 2 years and over 1k hours before deciding on my choice. I think using your KLH as surround and buying new fronts will be more satisfying in the end.

As for Onkyo problems, the biggest complaint is the heating issue. I don't have a problem with heating because I give it a lot of space, roughly 10 inches of open space. Secondly I bought myself a cooling fan just in case.

The BIC's were on my list and I read as much as I could on the Venturi and Acoustech. From my research, they are a great buy. Most owners will agree that for the price, it is a great buy for entry level speaker. Some people are picky, others aren't so much. I am one of those type who can't really tell a difference between a $1k speaker to a $5K speaker. Even though I went with the Rockets, I don't think I would of been disappointed with the BICs. After all, I am not that picky. If you are picky, you might want to bite the bullet and go higher end to avoid upgrading every other year. You can find more reviews on these BICs www.audioholics.com and amazon.com as well.

Other great ID speakers with excellent reviews are: Aperions, Swans, Rockets, Axioms.

BIC's sub are a decent buy as well. Currently a hot sub buy now is the av123's MFW 15but the MFW is back order and a long wait. Here is a rating on the subs:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768150&highlight=mfw+15

Elemental Designs A7-900 ($2200 ID/SI): 116 points (63-53)
Epik Conquest ($1599 ID): 112 points (60-52)
SVS PB13-Ultra ($1499 ID): 109 points (57-52)
Epik Castle ($999 ID): 109 points (59-50)
AV123 MFW-15 Duals: 109 points (56-53) (note, duals were tested as duals are offered as a package)
Creative Sounds Dual SDX-15 driver + Behringer EP-2500 Amp + Behringer DEQ2496 ($1630 ID): 105 points (57-48)
JL Audio Fathom 113 ($3500 BM): 103 points (53-50)
AV123 MFW-15 ($599 ID): 103 points (53-50)
Def Tech Trinity ($3000 BM): 102 points (54-48)
Velodyne DD-18 ($5000 BM): 100 points (50-50)
ACI Maestro ($2400 ID): 97 points (47-50)
eD A5-350 ($715 ID/SI): 96 points (50-46)
JL Audio Fathom 112 ($2600 BM): 95 points (45-50)
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo ($999 ID): 94 points (47-47)
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo ($899 ID): 92 points (45-47)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo ($799 ID): 92 points (45-47)
Epik Valor ($549 ID): 91 points (44-47)
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo ($699 ID): 91 points (45-46)
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points (47-43)
Axiom EP-500 ($1230 ID/SI): 90 points (43-47)
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo ($599 ID): 88 points (42-46)
SVS PB12-Plus/2 ($1299 ID): 87 points (47-40)
SVS PB12-NSD ($599 ID): 86 points (43-43)
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo ($499 ID): 86 points (40-46)
Rocket UFW-12 ($999 ID): 85 points (provisional) (35-50)
Elemental Designs A2-300 ($350 ID/SI): 83 points (44-39)
SVS PB10-NSD ($429 ID): 83 points (43-40)
Dana Audio 600 ($869 ID): 83 points (36-47)
Rocket X-Sub ($199 ID): 78 points (34-44)
BIC H-100 ($229 eBay): 78 points (40-38)
Rocket Tyke: 60 points (If you care, PM me ... )

Pending subwoofers ...

VMPS VSS Powered sub - Early March, 2008
AV123 BMF ... Not sure of date
Epik Knight ... Not sure of Date

Thanks guys...Pardon me as I put my reading glasses back on. Lots to consider/reconsider.

Snodwog

I would stay with the Klh and get a good sub with some decent surrounds. I am a Yamaha fan myself but any person I know who uses the Denon stuff loves it. For whatever that is worth.

For movies and games.... get this...

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1061&sc=32
Do a search on e bay, theres a couple guys that have regular auctions going.

They'll accept lower on a best offer... from my experience they'll accept between 80-85% of the asking. This will fit easily within your budget and will hands down be the best sound you can get for the money AND you'll have a uniform sound across your stage. If you decide a year or two from now that you want to upgrade, then you could sell the set off at a very minimal loss (probably no more than a couple hundred bucks IF THAT) and then buy a nicer setup (Psb, Paradigm, B&W, or whatever that'll end up costing you 3K-5K). But for movies and games, these horn loaded speakers are going to sound real good. Then you'll still have the money for your denon 2808... although i'd go with the Yamaha RX-V1800 over the Denon for these speakers.

Ok...After many hours of research delving into the knowledge base of this forum, I have finally come to a decision on my HT setup:

AVR: Denon 3808
Front L/R: ED 6T6 Towers
Center: ED 6T6 MTM
Rear Surrounds: 15yr old KLH 3-way's
Sub:AV123 MFW-15

I know...The speakers exceed my budget by about $300, but for the money I'm not sure you can get more bang for your buck! At least this is the impression that I get from what I've read. Orders will be placed later today, unless someone can convince me otherwise.

I think this should pretty much blow me away, since I am used to Dolby Prologic surround on a 15 yr old 3.0 surround system. Now I just gotta hope the wife doesn't freak :eek: when I set that big A$$ sub in the corner of the den.

Snodwog

Enjoy your setup and don't look back.

Frank