What would you get? Genelec? B&W? Dynaudio?

I personally love Genelec, but they look like they were made in WWII unfortunately, and I kinda wanted something that looked as good as it sounded.

I know this is a very loaded question, so any suggestions would be helpfull!

30,000k! do you have children? if not im potty trained and don't eat much lol
jk

I'd go for b&w's!

Aerial 20T's, CC5, SR3... about $30k.

I'd keep what I have. Maybe pretty them up a bit.

Out of those 3 options? I'd go B&W. Skywalker sound chose them for their soundstage...

....that and I think the sound is great and I think the 800/802 are one of the best looking speakers out there.

i actually think the B&W's are kinda ugly to be honest with you, but they do sound great... though i swear i liked the sound of the genelecs i heard better compared to the B&Ws!

i actually think the B&W's are kinda ugly to be honest with you, but they do sound great... though i swear i liked the sound of the genelecs i heard better compared to the B&Ws!

If you want stylish cabinetry and great sound quality try these:

http://www.coherent-systems.co.uk/images/1037frontal1.jpg http://www.coherent-systems.co.uk/images/1037frontal2.jpg http://www.coherent-systems.co.uk/images/1037frontal3.jpg

Focal Electra 1037 Be - MSRP $12K a pair.

Or you could go with the Revel Ultima2 series. The Studio2's run $16K a pair. I don't find them all that attractive, but tastes vary.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/images/archivesart/1007revel.1.jpg

Of course deals can be had and while the Revels would be over your budget at full MSRP, you could easily get them for a street price within your budget.

The Revels are *much* more attractive, though bigger, in person than they look to be in the pics. I don't find the B&Ws to be as attractive or as good as the above too options. Dyaudios are just too much of that Euro chic kinda look to me with them getting uglier as they get more expensive, but that's clearly subjective.

thanks for the suggestions. kinda hard to find anything that high end besides B&W in canada, unfortunately. also i seems as though all the really good center channel speakers are too tall to fit beneath my screen as there is only around 8 to 10 inches of clearance.

can anyone recommend something like the B&W XT series but better?

Well if you're in Canada you should be able to find the PSB Platinum Series, have money left over and beat just about anything in your price range. Whether you find them attractive or not is probably a matter of personal opinion:

PSB Platinum Series (http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Platinum-Series)

Platinum T8 tower (http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Platinum-Series/Platinum-T8-Tower)

Personally, I prefer their Synchrony line and for _my_ purposes they'd do just fine:

PSB Synchrony Series (http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Synchrony)

Disclaimer: I've personally known the guys that started PSB in the past...

Edit: and yes, the center channel from either one of those would probably work for you.

PSB's Synchony series should be easy to find in Canada. It's much lower than your budget, but is a real contender, more like $10K, but really is quite a value. We have some running with Revel Ultimas and while the Revels are more transparent, the PSBs are more 'fun' and do great with home theater surround *and* with bad recordings that the Revels just ruin. Not quite as pretty, but certainly not ugly. For instance, Rush's later recordings are compressed to paper thin and sound fine on the PSBs, but obviously are shown to *suuuuuuuuck* on the Ultimas. Too bad they didn't have Ultimas in the studio back then. The PSB Synchrony One system we did for a customer ranks up there with *any* system we've done in flat out enjoyability, he loves it.

So, what are your *goals* with a new system? Absolute resolution and accuracy? Or just something that's really enjoyable? Or something that pounds you into submission like a PA system?

Speaking of 'synchronicity', i had no idea Scientest was posting that ^

I prefer the Synchrony over Platinum as well. Smoother, more enjoyable and with killer mid/upper bass. For better or, in my case, worse, the Platinums sound *just like* B&W Nautilus 800s (not 800D) in most every way. Some people love that, some don't. For me, they're too forward and a bit harsh. The have a similar tonal balance to the more expensive JMs, Revels, 800D but lack the refinement and resolution that I think is important if you have the more forward tonal balance. That being said, if you have a HUGE room where you're sitting far from the speakers, the Platinums have an incredible 'throw' to them. They can send the sound across a room, 20' away, no problem. Probably sheer number of drivers and how they're arranged.

thanks for the suggestions. kinda hard to find anything that high end besides B&W in canada, unfortunately. also i seems as though all the really good center channel speakers are too tall to fit beneath my screen as there is only around 8 to 10 inches of clearance.

can anyone recommend something like the B&W XT series but better?

The distributor for Focal is in Eastern Canada so you should be able to find a dealer there. And the Electra center channel is only 9.25" tall and 24" wide.

Search for your dealer at the distributor's web site:

http://www.audioplusservices.com/frame.html

The dealer locator is in the lower right corner of the main page.

How about a pair of 802D, one HTM2D, SCMS(come in pairs only) and a pair of JLAudio Fathons 113 you should be under $30,000

Id spend $20000 on the room itself and $10000 on the equiment that can be upgraded later

What would you get? Genelec? B&W? Dynaudio?

I personally love Genelec, but they look like they were made in WWII unfortunately, and I kinda wanted something that looked as good as it sounded.

I know this is a very loaded question, so any suggestions would be helpfull!

How did you get on with the advice I gave last year. I don't believe I heard back

Id spend $20000 on the room itself and $10000 on the equipment that can be upgraded later

I quadruple that recommendation -- the room is the most important AND most overlooked component.

Dynaudio go uncontested for moist natUrAL AND FATIGUE FREE. There is nothing better in it's price range and even teice it. It was recently proven to overwhelming acclaim.

Dynaudio go uncontested for moist natUrAL AND FATIGUE FREE. There is nothing better in it's price range and even teice it. It was recently proven to overwhelming acclaim.

Oooh, I want "moist" sound quality! :D

"Tiece", though, I'm not sure what that is. Whatever it is, apparently only Dynaudio has it. Must be a Scandinavian thing. :D

In a hurry CINERMAX?

What would you get? Genelec? B&W? Dynaudio?

I personally love Genelec, but they look like they were made in WWII unfortunately, and I kinda wanted something that looked as good as it sounded.

I know this is a very loaded question, so any suggestions would be helpfull!

Out of those three, I would do Dynaudio for sure. Dynaudio C4s or Sapphires for the mains. While you are at it you might as well check out the Revel Utlima2 Salon2s and Wilson Sophia2s. Though if you want the most bang for your buck and aren't as concerned with the looks, the Ultima2s Salon2s or C4s are the way to go.

Dynaudio go uncontested for moist natUrAL AND FATIGUE FREE. There is nothing better in it's price range and even teice it. It was recently proven to overwhelming acclaim.

I would disagree there. The new Revels are easily on par. I also think the W/P8 is on par, though a bit more expensive. There are many more that are just as good or better depending on subjective opinion...

But you have never heard a good 7.1 dynaudio rig. It is celestial.

Lots of things are celestial. In fact, the PSB Synchrony system is 1/4 the price and extremely natural and low in fatigue factor if that's how you define 'celestial'. If a $30k system *isn't* celestial, then it's not fit to be $30K. At that price, it should be more a matter of what version of celestial, though there are clearly systems that cost that much and don't deliver 'celestial'. And there are ones that don't cost that much that do.

Oooh, I want "moist" sound quality! :D

Peter gets moist thinking about Dynaudios ;)

Peter gets moist thinking about Dynaudios ;)

Apparently. So moist it seems, that his fingers slip off the proper keys. :rolleyes:

Apparently. So moist it seems, that his fingers slip off the proper keys. :rolleyes:

Now that's a visual i could have done without :eek:

Now that's a visual i could have done without :eek:

You started it! :D

But you have never heard a good 7.1 dynaudio rig. It is celestial.

And you have heard every speaker on the market in the Dynaudio's price range, as well as twice its price, in a 7.1 configuration? :confused:

Stop arguing with peter, it only encourages him.

all i can say is 30K for a 5.1 setup? i would think 7.1 at that price range.

Dynaudio go uncontested for moist natUrAL AND FATIGUE FREE. There is nothing better in it's price range and even teice it. It was recently proven to overwhelming acclaim.


What were you referring to when you wrote "It was recently proven to overwhelming acclaim"?

He installed a set and people liked it. Therefore, it must be the best!

He installed a set and people liked it. Therefore, it must be the best!

Oye... If I keep hanging out around here I'm going to end up shooting myself. :(

For 30K, I'd contact Mark Seaton and see what he can configure for you custom- should be a pretty bitchin' system!

Otherwise, go ahead and run with whatever- PSB,Dynaudio, Paradigm, smaller Genelecs- there really isn't all that much difference between them, paper or plastic drivers, 1/2" MDF cabinet construction, 16awg or 18awg internal wiring, iron core coils- or maybe those super-cool coils on plastic bobbins!

Real answer:

At 30k you can easily invest 10k for acoustic treatments (should be plenty), another 10grand for the electronics (good preamp and power amp, maybe even a blu-ray player), then take the last 10k and put that towards speakers- 3 really good ones, 4 standard (somewhat matching from whatever brand) in-wall or in-ceiling surrounds, and at least 2 really good subwoofers- but 4 would be better.

Then, if you're really feeling adventurous- pop an additional 1k for a decent DSP like a QSC DSP-30 or a Symetrix Deuce 722, and get some bass equalization in the room.

Overall, doing that will get you a much more enjoyable system than blowing the whole 30 grand on speakers and electronics.

And BTW, if you're not doing it yourself- spend the time to shop for a very good, reputable installer to take care of the installation for you.

Installer- typically a 20-something male that's really into home theater, probably seriously underpaid in his mind- may or may not be careful around that antique French armoire in the living room.

Integrator- upper 20's to mid 30's male that used to be an installer, but has since taken a few classes at CEDIA EXPO (or CES, et. al.) and now thinks that he's an expert on acoustics, speaker placement, video calibration, and home automation.

Owner- former-integrator, or perhaps owns a company that used to be classified as "hi-fi" realized that there's no longer money in selling receivers and a pair of mediocre speakers- so hired and installer that he pays $10 an hour and charges you $70.

AVS forum member- typically has forgotten more about this stuff than most of those listed above, but has decidedly made this a hobby, not a career and instead makes more money being a doctor, lawyer, running a hedge fund, or a car-dealership. Also, this person is pretty much the worst enemy of those listed above- because he knows just enough about everything to get himself into trouble, but doesn't have the experience to get himself out (much like the integrator).


----this cynical view of this industry has come via 12 years of being firmly implanted in each of these categories-----and by the way, is here purely for entertainment value, because in the long run- the most important step you could take- you've already taken:
You came here for advice, which will be nothing but contradictory, but some of it will prove to be extremely valuable.

Listen to guys like Mark, and Art, and Chris Wiggles, and Dizzman- they've been there, and can help you through this. Learn from the mistakes that others have made. That's what's sooo very valuable about this site as a great resource.

Enjoy the ride!

Dan

Wow, that is cynical. However, when a person asks about a budget for speakers, most of us assume that there is other money for other things, now, prior or future. While there's merit in spending money on room treatments or EQ, that's a separate category of gear. Big difference from someone saying they have a $30k *total* budget. Especially on this forum where it's kinda of assumed that people have lots of money invested in all aspects of the hobby.

Get the Paradigm Signature series S6 towers and the matching center and surrounds, also... the signature servo sub... should be able to get all for 16K give or take. That will sound as good as youd ever really want... then you have 14K to spend on a very nice receiver and perhaps other electronics to go with the new system... also some of the acoustic treatments mentioned before is a good option. Another overlooked price is nice cables and wall plates (for the nice clean look)... that can add up quick.

I guess I channeled Richard Belzer or Bill Hicks for a moment, in either case- I hope it made some people chuckle....that's really what it was about.

Dan

People in the film Industry that have seen and heard everything worthwhile. And Myself of course. I am just rtying to do the OP a favour, it's Dynaudio and call it a day never look back...

i'm thinking about going with the paradigm signature S8, signature C5 center, Signature ADP3 surrounds and signature servo sub... with the Pioneer SC-09TXH receiver.

how's that sound? obviously i'm going to demo a ton of stuff first, but i just am going f$%^cking crazy with this damn $1500 samsung HTIB system that makes the audio out of sync for all sources, and its giving me nightmares at this point, so its time to set up.

the room is around 20ft x 13.5ft and the rear speakers would be right behind the couch on stands spread out around 8 feet. is that ok, ok should i use Signature S4s for the surrounds?

I am also going to demo some B&W stuff, but i dont think i can use it since the center is too tall for my salamander unit, even with their tallest riser, and wall mounting the screen is out of the question (until they release a 70" plasma that is!)

Your room size will only accommodate the small Genelecs. As an owner i can assure you that the difference between the small and large is huge. I love my Genelecs but would advise you to look around at other makes. Custom is also an option.

PS You really should be looking at 7.1, for the future.

Did you get anywhere with the demo I pm'd you about. I think you missed my post above.

Well, I definitely wouldn't spend $30k on a room that small.

You really should be looking at 7.1, for the future.

Not with that small of room and with the speakers "right behind the couch"!

7.1 has little to do with "future" proofing, it's a way to provide proper effects to multiple seating positions in a larger room.

Your room size will only accommodate the small Genelecs. As an owner i can assure you that the difference between the small and large is huge. I love my Genelecs but would advise you to look around at other makes. Custom is also an option.

PS You really should be looking at 7.1, for the future.

Did you get anywhere with the demo I pm'd you about. I think you missed my post above.

yes i actually did listen to those genelecs and loved them.

unfortunately I can't do 7.1 in my room due to the fact it backs on to the kitchen and there is no wall on the side to put speakers. i could possibly put them in the ceiling but i really don't wanna tear anything up.

yes i actually did listen to those genelecs and loved them.

unfortunately I can't do 7.1 in my room due to the fact it backs on to the kitchen and there is no wall on the side to put speakers. i could possibly put them in the ceiling but i really don't wanna tear anything up.

I have a room the exact same size with what sounds like similar speaker placement restrictions. If you go with the Focal Electra's I suggested, their on-wall surround speakers have a "twin mode" that lets you connect each face of the bipole speakers separately, which would allow you to get 7.1 out of 5 speaker locations.

If you go with the Paradigms, which are a fine speaker, I would not recommend putting the S4's right next to the couch. Even if you reduce the output levels of the surround speakers, because they are so close they will draw too much attention to the rear soundstage. You should really consider going with an on-wall surround that you can place on the rear wall 3-feet above your seating listening height. This will help put some distance between you and the surround speakers.

Not with that small of room and with the speakers "right behind the couch"!

7.1 has little to do with "future" proofing, it's a way to provide proper effects to multiple seating positions in a larger room.

Ive had 2 high end rooms with 7.1 that are a smaller area than that, and am in the middle of having 2 done atm. 7.1 is not about multiple seating coverage in large rooms at all, matrixed arrays do that. 7.1 does allow better rear coverage but does not change the issue for rows, and were back to arrays again

7.1 is an increasingly widely used format and is therefor becoming standard, more so going forward. A 5.1 system suffers from rear image collapse when seated off center due to the "phantom center" losing locality as one speaker overwhelms the other.This is equally true in small rooms.This is negated in 7.1 by a 7.1 source or PLIIx processing. 7.1 allows panning smoothness and firm center anchorage in the rears that has always been available in front with 5.1. Image collapse is thus prevented, similar to the use of the front center in anchorage terms. Those are the main reasons for 7.1

i'm thinking about going with the paradigm signature S8, signature C5 center, Signature ADP3 surrounds and signature servo sub... with the Pioneer SC-09TXH receiver.

how's that sound? obviously i'm going to demo a ton of stuff first, but i just am going f$%^cking crazy with this damn $1500 samsung HTIB system that makes the audio out of sync for all sources, and its giving me nightmares at this point, so its time to set up.

the room is around 20ft x 13.5ft and the rear speakers would be right behind the couch on stands spread out around 8 feet. is that ok, ok should i use Signature S4s for the surrounds?

I am also going to demo some B&W stuff, but i dont think i can use it since the center is too tall for my salamander unit, even with their tallest riser, and wall mounting the screen is out of the question (until they release a 70" plasma that is!)

Sounds like pretty much what I suggested in my previous post with the exception of the S8. Be advised that i've heard the S6's actually have a better sound than the S8's. The S8's are said to be a bit to boomy and with the signature servo sub you're not going to need it at all. I've read the S6's provide the perfect combo.... plus you'll save a few $K... not that you need to but you could spend the extra dough elsewhere. Another thing to keep in mind is that the S8's are rear ported and require more room than the S6's

yes i actually did listen to those genelecs and loved them.

Cool.Where did they take you for an audition? Which systems did they demo for you.?

Oye... If I keep hanging out around here I'm going to end up shooting myself. :(

Need bullets? :D

(sorry, this was to poke fun at QC's ever morbid sense of humor, if you can call it that ;) )

For 30K, I'd contact Mark Seaton and see what he can configure for you custom- should be a pretty bitchin' system!

Dan

Mark also has some products like the Submersive sealed sub and Catayst mains which are production.

Art

From the PSB speakers owners thread:

PSB Speakers Owners (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13362458#post13362458)

Not that I put that much faith in Stereophile, but given the company in their "Class A" ratings some might find it relevant to this thread.

Remarkably, the OP hasn't been shunned into one of the medium end sections, as it is impossible to get a minimum of seven pieces of kit of at least 20K USD a pop into a 30K budget, LOL.

+1
Ditto on Mark Seaton and John Janowitz custom job....they should be able to put together a SUPERB system for $30k, with fully custom cabinets, some very accurate and clean low range with tons of headroom and extension.

I'd assume Dolby labs processing, and just a kickass system!

check this thread out....may be helpful ;)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=927779&highlight=seaton

Need bullets? :D

(sorry, this was to poke fun at QC's ever morbid sense of humor, if you can call it that ;) )

Can't talk now. I'm coming down off a mean shopping binge. I just spent thousands on dual layer SACD/CDs (Gold CDs) and out of print Mobile Fidelity CDs as well as out of print DCC CDs. Who would have thought those Mobile Fidelity CDs I was unsure of in middle school and high school would be worth so much after a few decades... (Apparently some people thought it, but I wasn't one of them... :mad:)

I refuse admittance to any Canadian speker into the class A foray. MOST SPECIFICALLY the crappy boxy sounding Paradigms with all thgeir boxy sounding anthem electronics.

That's alright, many of us refuse admittance to any first order and/or European speaker, let alone anything with a soft dome tweeter or poly cones.

That's alright, many of us refuse admittance to any first order and/or European speaker, let alone anything with a soft dome tweeter or poly cones.

Touché

I refuse admittance to any Canadian speker into the class A foray. MOST SPECIFICALLY the crappy boxy sounding Paradigms with all thgeir boxy sounding anthem electronics.

I'm not a particular fan of the Paradigms although some of their line has hit reasonable to good price/performance points in the past. However, no one is sugestting that you need admit _them_ to "Class A", I'm pretty sure they're actually US speakers that just happen to be designed and built in Canada.:p.

The PSBs on the other hand clearly best much of their competition. Anything you think can do better for $4,500?

Touché

Yep Banjo strings don't go along well with soft domes and poly cones That's fer sure....

Yep Banjo strings don't go along well with soft domes and poly cones That's fer sure....

Just because I married my sister doesn't mean I don't have a good ear for sound. :eek::D

Or any other stringed or percussion instrument.

7.1 is not about multiple seating coverage in large rooms at all, matrixed arrays do that. 7.1 does allow better rear coverage but does not change the issue for rows, and were back to arrays again

I was tired when I posted and I should have made it clear that my main concern is with the fact that he has his couch up against the back wall. I really don't see how you're going to get a proper 7.1 with such a setup?

7.1 is an increasingly widely used format and is therefor becoming standard, more so going forward. A 5.1 system suffers from rear image collapse when seated off center due to the "phantom center" losing locality as one speaker overwhelms the other.This is equally true in small rooms.

I think that _really_ depends on the room and the speakers. If you've got a properly setup 5.1 system in a room were it works properly I don't normally hear many locality issues. There are exceptions with some source materials when the producers try too hard to make dramatic effects, but in my experience that can be mostly overcome by using the appropriate source processing. Some people seem to be opposed to that, but down mixed discrete 7.1 works very well in my (admittedly rather difficult) room. I've debated going to a 7.1 system, in my case I can get the rears about 4 feet behind the main seating position, but so far I really see no reason to do so. I'll probably do it, just because I can, but I've got lots of other places to spend my money first and that would be true even if my budget was $30K+.

Just out of interest, for large rooms, how do you suggest doing arrays with 7.1? If it's purely a case of adding sides the front rows are going to have the very locality issues that you suggest that the rears are solving....

Just out of interest, for large rooms, how do you suggest doing arrays with 7.1? If it's purely a case of adding sides the front rows are going to have the very locality issues that you suggest that the rears are solving....

Dipoles on the sides and monopoles in the rear? Dipoles to provide a diffuse sound and the monopoles to ensure that there is good back to front fill.

Much money...
That's why it's too easy to bu things...

Yep Banjo strings don't go along well with soft domes and poly cones That's fer sure....

Squeal like a pig! :D

Just kidding... I actually love listening to Bela Fleck, though a lot of his Flecktones stuff is electric banjo.

Just kidding... I actually love listening to Bela Fleck, though a lot of his Flecktones stuff is electric banjo.

Off topic, but if you enjoy Bela this is a great disc as well as a killer example of upright bass on a system

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Two-Bonus-Bela-Fleck/dp/B0001XAMS6******pd_bbs_12?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1205414712&sr=8-12

Off topic, but if you enjoy Bela this is a great disc as well as a killer example of upright bass on a system

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Two-Bonus-Bela-Fleck/dp/B0001XAMS6******pd_bbs_12?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1205414712&sr=8-12

Thanks! I'm at the Breakers in FL right now, but I'll check it out if you fix the link when I get home soon.

No mention if this is a dedicated HT Room or will it also be for music enjoyment( 2 Ch)?
If it will also be for music and a typical family room what are your music tastes? It might be best to start with your music taste listening to 2 ch and then compliment with that speaker line into the 7.1 system.
MY room is 15x24x9 with a 50 plasma.(Would really like a 60). I have Maggie 1.6 speakers up front with their CC which fits my jazz, female and male vocals taste. I also enjoy most music except for rap & heavy rock. If this is your musical taste, look into the Maggie line especialy the 3.6R. Maggies have wll mounted spekaers for the surrounds that can lie flat against the wall when not in use or left swung out when in use. (They are dipoles) Just remember with Maggies you need the right amps to get the best from them.