I saw an add over at TMR regarding an investigation into Toshiba and their actions up to the cancelation of HD DVD. Do you think this has any merit? Would you join?


http://www.girardgibbs.com/toshiba_hd_dvd.html?gclid=CLGMrueNhZICFQEjFQod82hw-A

Disclaimer: I performed a search for lawsuit and didn't see anything. Sorry if this has been posted (and deleted) before. I have also asked the mods to move or delete as needed.

A waste of time for everyone but lawyers! If the feds aren't going to investiage the anti-trust dealings of both format principals (bribes, kick-backs, whatever) then I don't see a class-action suit going anywhere. Nobody sued Sony when Betamax failed, or any other format that lost out to the competition, and it ain't gonna happen this time, either.

It actually does have merit. It Toshiba knew that they were going to pull the plug, the class action suit could claim fraud in the inducement when they sold the product to the consumer.

Count me in! I bought 3.... yes 3 HDDVD players. I bought an Xbox add-on, an HD-A2, and just the other day an HD-A20.

I was feel cheated and used. I want my millions now!

Nobody sued Sony when Betamax failed, or any other format that lost out to the competition, and it ain't gonna happen this time, either.

The world has changed a lot since the Beta vs. VHS format wars decades ago. One way, is that consumers are a lot more legitous today.

I would be surprised if such law suits are limited to just Toshiba. I would think that the studios who only offered titles on HD DVD, and not Blu-ray, would be exposed too, since the took the consumers' choice of HD DVD vs. Blu-ray out of the consumers' hands.

BTW, Sony didn't instantly cease Betamax production and sales. If I remember it correctly, Betamax more slowly, very slowly, drifted away. Basically, Sony continued to support Betamax owners until there really weren't very many left.

When I bought my A35, I was certainly not an "early adopter". Toshiba was already into its third generation of machines. Add into that, the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray format war was in a stalemate, and at the time, was expected to stay a stalemate for a long time. Even the CEO of Sony made comments along those lines.

Then something suddenly happened. And I would certainly welcome an investigation to uncover just what did happen. Who said, or did, what to whom. What secrete agreements, or even just "winks", happened? Any such investigation should not only include Sony and Toshiba, but also the movie studios.

Did Warner kill HD DVD, and if they did (of course for their own profits), should they be held accountable to the "victims"? Could/should Warner have known, that their actions would harm HD DVD player owners?

Class action suits are the most profitable one for lawyers. There was a case (fen-phen) in Kentucky recently where the lawyers are under investigation because they took almost all of the plaintiffs winnings and transferred it into their own personal accounts.

I know that lawyers are still trying to get a class action suit together against the film "The Never Ending Story".

Class action suits are the most profitable one for lawyers. There was a case (fen-phen) in Kentucky recently where the lawyers are under investigation because they took almost all of the plaintiffs winnings and transferred it into their own personal accounts.

I know that lawyers are still trying to get a class action suit together against the film "The Never Ending Story".

Well technically, the chapter ended but the story goes on.
In our minds and hearts =)

I know that lawyers are still trying to get a class action suit together against the film "The Never Ending Story".


Ha! Good ol' Lionel Hutz.

Class action suits are the most profitable one for lawyers.

You are right, but there is also the non-tangible gain of having someone officially blamed.

I was a member of the class action suit against AT&T. The issue was that on AT&T credit card statements, it said that payment was due on, for example, February 12. What they weren't saying, was that it was due by February 12 at 12:01AM. If your payment was delivered between midnight and one minute after midnight, it was OK. Otherwise, you got socked with a massive late payment fee even though AT&T opened and cashed your payment check on February 12.

Yea, I forget the exact numbers, but the lawyers got millions, and victims like me got $0.02.

However, the suit brought light onto a practice by AT&T, and got AT&T to change. IMHO, that by itself was worth it.

Think Toshiba is going to loose this one. Does anyone remeber the statement they made after Warner Switch? And in recent interview their CEO said that lace of studio support caused them to fail. Yet, after a major studio switch they sai, "HD DVD is consumers choice". Then slashed the prices on players, just so can get rid of inventory. Sad for those that fell into this trap!

Ha! Good ol' Lionel Hutz.

You caught that one!:D

I'm no lawyer but this seems pretty crazy to me:

"On February 19, 2008 Toshiba announced that it would no longer support the HD DVD format. Up to the announcement, Toshiba continued to market HD DVD players to potential customers. Consumers complain that they have invested hundreds of dollars in a technology that has become obsolete in less than two years. "

This had been a competition between two camps. There had always been the understanding that one would win out over the other.

Someone above stated "The world has changed a lot since the Beta vs. VHS format wars decades ago. One way, is that consumers are a lot more legitous today." Another way the world has changed is that people are more informed about making their choices. There was plenty of info about the format war and that the general consensus was that one would have to win out over the other before any HD format could move forward into the masses. When you bought that player (and I am/was an HD-DVD fanboy) you made an educated guess...just like if you were playing the stock market.

If you want to follow the train of thought that the studios are liable, then so could the retailers if they didn't inform the customers about the issues between picking one format now.

Toshiba even spent millions on a Super Bowl ad just before the announcement. I would doubt that they recouped that money selling the players at prices that they were at that time.

These guys have watched too much Boston Legal and figure that they would be able to settle if they have enough "clients" and make their usual exorbiant legal fees.

I'm not happy that HD-DVD lost but I jumped in with my eyes open. If you jumped with your eyes closed, is that Toshiba's fault?

One more thing: if people bought the player after Toshiba's announcement (which has definitely been going on) can those people take part? My understanding is that alot of people who already have a player have bought "backups" and are buying the movies as they come down in price. Should they be allowed to take part in the suit? Or people who bought a very good "upconverting" player?

Sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into a rant :o

You are right, but there is also the non-tangible gain of having someone officially blamed.

I was a member of the class action suit against AT&T. The issue was that on AT&T credit card statements, it said that payment was due on, for example, February 12. What they weren't saying, was that it was due by February 12 at 12:01AM. If your payment was delivered between midnight and one minute after midnight, it was OK. Otherwise, you got socked with a massive late payment fee even though AT&T opened and cashed your payment check on February 12.

Yea, I forget the exact numbers, but the lawyers got millions, and victims like me got $0.02.

However, the suit brought light onto a practice by AT&T, and got AT&T to change. IMHO, that by itself was worth it.

I was part of a class action suit against the airlines. Originally the settlement was going to be $100+ per person, but then the lawyers and the airline changed it to $200+ of coupons. The lawyers doubled their pay out, and we got screwed with worthless coupons instead of cash.:(

Think Toshiba is going to loose this one. Does anyone remeber the statement they made after Warner Switch? And in recent interview their CEO said that lace of studio support caused them to fail. Yet, after a major studio switch they sai, "HD DVD is consumers choice". Then slashed the prices on players, just so can get rid of inventory. Sad for those that fell into this trap!Hmmm, wrong conclusion here.

I can blame Toshiba for bailing on their market so unceremoniously, but in the end the real blame here goes to the studios, that succumbed to payoffs and jerked consumers around.

America at its best! :(

Sue when you make a decision and the decision back fires.

I would think that the studios who only offered titles on HD DVD, and not Blu-ray, would be exposed too

...works both ways... this was never about consumer choice.

Think Toshiba is going to loose this one. Does anyone remeber the statement they made after Warner Switch? And in recent interview their CEO said that lace of studio support caused them to fail. Yet, after a major studio switch they sai, "HD DVD is consumers choice". Then slashed the prices on players, just so can get rid of inventory. Sad for those that fell into this trap!

I dont understand why this is a trap....they were touting them as good upconverting players and your HD DVD disc is still 1080p video and it will not self destruct......why get angry that you spent a couple of hundred dollars...let it go man, let it go...

Hmmm, wrong conclusion here.

I can blame Toshiba for bailing on their market so unceremoniously, but in the end the real blame here goes to the studios, that succumbed to payoffs and jerked consumers around.

well toshiba did plenty of that too! but they continued to sell players and stating that "HD DVD is consumers choice" and not admittin defeat is the reason for the law suite!

Hmmm, wrong conclusion here.

I can blame Toshiba for bailing on their market so unceremoniously, but in the end the real blame here goes to the studios, that succumbed to payoffs and jerked consumers around.


HD is a loser as far as profitability right now...Warner taking 400 million was like instant profit and the most money they have made on HD.:)

Class action suits are the most profitable one for lawyers. There was a case (fen-phen) in Kentucky recently where the lawyers are under investigation because they took almost all of the plaintiffs winnings and transferred it into their own personal accounts.

I know that lawyers are still trying to get a class action suit together against the film "The Never Ending Story".

Yup. I somehow got into a class action lawsuit against Dell. Once they got a judgement against Dell they required everything to get your part of the pie. Stuff I didnt have after 6 years of owning my laptop. So my part of the judgement goes to the lawyers. I am sure there are plenty of other people like me who are in the same boat.

In the United States there were ~250 billion in judgements levied in 06. Lawyers typically get about 30% of the winnings.

People look at big oil and cry about big profits. The litigation industry churns out more profit than big oil. You think we will see a certain party go after big law? Not when that entity give so much to their platform.

what am I gonna get like 1 dollar from this class action suit and the lawyers what oh a measly 3.5 million or something I still enjoy HDDVD even when its long and gone its HD in general unless blu ray can do 2160p im happy they still are having trouble with profile 2.0

what am I gonna get like 1 dollar from this class action suit and the lawyers what oh a measly 3.5 million or something I still enjoy HDDVD even when its long and gone its HD in general unless blu ray can do 2160p im happy they still are having trouble with profile 2.0

So you can take advantage of it on your 2160p player and TV?

So you can take advantage of it on your 2160p player and TV?


oh yeah once blu ray goes that way sure and I will make sure its BLU RAY COMPATIBLE SONY TV also to boot....1080p is old news....;)

I have all the exclusives and lots of non exclusive titles that I wanted on the format. I use my X A2 instead of a seperate DVD player now. I feel bad for Toshiba but don't feel taken at all. What about DVHS/DTheater can I sue because I wasn't told it was a dead end format ?:D

Art

oh yeah once blu ray goes that way sure and I will make sure its BLU RAY COMPATIBLE SONY TV also to boot....1080p is old news....;)

You realize that it took almost 60 years to change from 480 to 1080, right?

1080 isn't going anywhere for a long, long time. Sure, the TVs might come out, but no content will for a very long time if ever.

I have all the exclusives and lots of non exclusive titles that I wanted on the format. I use my X A2 instead of a seperate DVD player now. I feel bad for Toshiba but don't feel taken at all. What about DVHS/DTheater can I sue because I wasn't told it was a dead end format ?:D

Art

Hi Art,

Well said, I feel exactly the same way.

And of course in answer to your rhetorical question, sure you can always sue. This is America after all. ;)

Larry

I'm all for it! Let the investigation begin and let them expose all the dirty laundry for all to see. I'm one who feels Toshiba had already decided to quit before Warner's announcement and had been decieving people for a while. Whether this was a decision made alone or if deals were made for it to come to that conclusion would be a very interesting find. I know one thing for sure that will come out of this, and that is the consumer had nothing to do with any of the decisions that led to the outcome except for the fact of being a used pawn to subsidize the format war that should have never taken place to begin with.

When I bought my A35, I was certainly not an "early adopter". Toshiba was already into its third generation of machines. Add into that, the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray format war was in a stalemate, and at the time, was expected to stay a stalemate for a long time. Even the CEO of Sony made comments along those lines.

Then something suddenly happened. And I would certainly welcome an investigation to uncover just what did happen. Who said, or did, what to whom. What secrete agreements, or even just "winks", happened? Any such investigation should not only include Sony and Toshiba, but also the movie studios.

Did Warner kill HD DVD, and if they did (of course for their own profits), should they be held accountable to the "victims"? Could/should Warner have known, that their actions would harm HD DVD player owners?


The WB move sure played a major part in the "death" of HD DVD. And they (WB) know it. If WB had gone 'red' or stayed neutral, this war would still be on. Although Toshiba was surely looking at all options, the WB Blu decision was surely what triggered the plug-pulling.

That may have something to do with the fact that the studio that "killed" the format will be the last one to issue new HD DVD titles this year. They have continued to announce new titles that'll get DVD/BD day & dates & HD DVDs 3 wks later. Plus the coments they have made recently regarding future HD DVD pressings of titles "if the demand is there".

Sounds like some ass-covering going on. There's blame to go all around as to why HD DVD failed, but WB is a big target, easy to hit. The less they piss off HD DVD faithful, the more likely those faithful will buy WB BDs one day.

At least, this is what I think WB is thinking.......

I'm all for it!

This costs people time and money.

WTF does anyone gain from it? oh wait, I know..... Backed up courts on STUPID THINGS, lawyers getting richer. Companies paying claims, Insurance rates go up and YOU AND I GET SCREWED over and over on things you just are not aware of.

Why are people so dumb about lawsuits in general?

This costs people time and money.

WTF does anyone gain from it? oh wait, I know..... Backed up courts on STUPID THINGS, lawyers getting richer. Companies paying claims, Insurance rates go up and YOU AND I GET SCREWED over and over on things you just are not aware of.

Why are people so dumb about lawsuits in general?

Why leave out the rest of my post? There are questions I'd like to see answered, so why do you have a problem with that? If it exposes something illegal then I would think it was well worth it, sorry!

You know, I think I might be in the wrong profession. Maybe I should take up law, sue various companies for products that did not pan out. I could sue all kinds of groups, Microsoft, Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, the guys that make those paper airplane books (I can never get them to fly).

The number of lawsuits is absurd and I am in awe of how money hungry some people can be.

This lawsuit is a picture of everything that is wrong with America. Some of the posters in this thread are additional pictures.

No one forced you to buy an HD-DVD player. It is a luxury item that you chose to buy knowing that the format may lose. Trying to sue Toshiba is ridiculous. Get a fricking clue people.

The WB move sure played a major part in the "death" of HD DVD. And they (WB) know it. If WB had gone 'red' or stayed neutral, this war would still be on. Although Toshiba was surely looking at all options, the WB Blu decision was surely what triggered the plug-pulling.

That may have something to do with the fact that the studio that "killed" the format will be the last one to issue new HD DVD titles this year. They have continued to announce new titles that'll get DVD/BD day & dates & HD DVDs 3 wks later. Plus the coments they have made recently regarding future HD DVD pressings of titles "if the demand is there".

Sounds like some ass-covering going on. There's blame to go all around as to why HD DVD failed, but WB is a big target, easy to hit. The less they piss off HD DVD faithful, the more likely those faithful will buy WB BDs one day.

At least, this is what I think WB is thinking.......


Why would WB be held accountable? They produced discs for the HD-PRG, but they are not responsible for it. They were under contract to HDDVD. They were not responsible for it.

They were paid by the HD-PRG to produce discs. If HD-PRG failed to renew that contract, that is a failure of the HD-PRG. WB would not be responsible for TOSHIBAs customers.

That would be like suing Payton Manning for leaving the colts when his contract is up.

This lawsuit is a picture of everything that is wrong with America. Some of the posters in this thread are additional pictures.

No one forced you to buy an HD-DVD player. It is a luxury item that you chose to buy knowing that the format may lose. Trying to sue Toshiba is ridiculous. Get a fricking clue people.

Who cares about the money! I want answers if you read any of my post. There are laws in this country against deception, maybe you don't have a problem with that but many people do. Ever hear of the lemon law? Well this is not much different than that and if far more serious charges such as anti-trust and collusion can be established than thats all the better to let consumers judge on their own if they want to make future purchases with any of the companies involved or take their money elsewhere. I think thats giving people not just a clue, but a choice.

Ok. I see leaving this thread open was a mistake.

larry