Well I have been wanting Electrocompaniet Amps for all three front channels but I have been unable to find a single 400. I have found a set of Nemo's (my curent amps for the Salons). They are obviously a pair, so I was considering getting another voice center channel. My question is what would be my benefits and my problems if any? I am perfectly happy right now, but if the benefits are great than maybe it's worth it.

I would probably place them side by side, ceiling mount is not an option!!


Thanks,

Joey

You definitely don't want to place 2 centers side by side, and IMO, much more trouble than it's worth for a pair vertically.

Of course oppinions will vary, as it's always cooler to have a bigger pile o' speakers, right? :p

I must of been PMing you while you were typing this.... WEIRD!!!! I was hoping to hear from you....

thanks,

Joey

Two center channels are a definite no no. But you could always use a height front speaker for multi-channel surround sound. HA!

a resounding no

not sure why you would even consider it

not sure why you would even consider it

Well I guess it's because it feels so weird to be content with my sound...I should start Fu_ _ ing it up!!!:o

I think with two centers you can introduce some nasty comb filtering because as you move listening positions you'd never be able to remain equidistant to the two speakers.

It actually can work. Once upon a time I had a center channel above my screen and the identical speaker below the screen. It worked because I used digital room correction (at the time it was a SigTech) that (a) corrected the frequency response and (b) time aligned the two signals. It was very cool. But when we disengaged the room correction, it sounded REALLY wierd ... bad idea. As someone said, you have comb filtering issues as well as slightly offset times of arrival without room correction.

I have 2 ATC c6 centre channels...one in the front and one in the rear. You could always add a 6th channel (if you don't have one already) to justify the expense of the amp!

I have 2 ATC c6 centre channels...one in the front and one in the rear. You could always add a 6th channel (if you don't have one already) to justify the expense of the amp!

it must be a Canadian thing.

As someone said, you have comb filtering issues as well as slightly offset times of arrival without room correction.

Bingo.

Even without comb filtering and normal phase cancellations, panning would be very muddy to say the least. Sound would need to move from 2 points of origin and meet at one destination or vice versa, this would give 2 seperate panning velocities for a single sound. Dead center anchoring would also be affected when off center, thus greatly negating the very purpose of a center channel in the first place.

I suggest you do the following to improve your system greatly.............................

Buy yourself a giant Sombrero and suspend 7 Bose Wave Radios from it, for that really immersive surround effect.

Avoid fridges an freezers as, according to Prof. Larry Cumstein of Johns Hopkins, Bose are highly carcinogenic at low temperatures due to the dioxin content. A link to the latest research on this self same subject is posted below:D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008128

Ahh... CM you do prove a point, and it's that fools do have a tendency to act foolish!!

FYI... I found out that the email originated from an OPRAH show about Sheryl Crow and her unfortunate battle with cancer. So feel free to email OPRAH and ridicule her...then you can coerce her to purchase an HT5000;) and maybe you and Art can start a petition to get her show cancelled for lack of credibility:rolleyes:


Joey
P.S. CM for you.... I bring my A game!!:D

it must be a Canadian thing.

:)

Quite the Canadian posse in forum.

Looks like Dudley Do-Right has been spreading his seed.:D

Maybe we should get a separate forum, or is that just a bit too "qweebeck":D:D

Quite the Canadian posse in forum.

The true hockey fans need to stick together:D

The true hockey fans need to stick together:D

Joey

I'll take the Leafs over the Oilers any day of the week.

I'll take the Leafs over the Oilers any day of the week.

Lets see...1967 :eek: How old were you then:D


Looks like Dudley Do-Right has been spreading his seed.

Actually not many people are born Canada:D:

Sort of like Made in USA.:D:D

Cold I don't what's shrinking faster, your dollar or your seed spreader:cool::D

Joey
Always bring the A game!!

Lets see...1967 :eek: How old were you then:D




Actually not many people are born Canada:D:

Sort of like Made in USA.:D:D

Cold I don't what's shrinking faster, your dollar or your seed spreader:cool::D

Joey
Always bring the A game!!

Joey unfortunately you don't even know a "B" game

FWIW I was there when they won the Cup (Punch Imlach era). Probably before you were even born or at the very most you were still passing meconium. I don't deny the Oilers are a good team but only in the Gretsky era. The Leafs are an institution tantamount in other sports to the Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, Knicks etc
Have the Oilers sold out every game for the past 60 years like the Leafs? I think not. To attend a Leaf game in their new arena or even the old Maple Leaf Gardens brings a buzz that one cannot describe. Just like being at Yankee Stadium, Fenway, Staples Center etc. These are real teams not some team that is mired in the Canadian Prairies

did i mention im from toronto?

i have to agree, there are no other hockey fans like the leaf fans!!!

did i mention im from toronto?

i have to agree, there are no other hockey fans like the leaf fans!!!

Thank you Anthony

I guess the only other thing that need be said about owning a pair of season tickets to the Leafs games is that it need be in the Ultra High End-Over $20K, something Joey also doesn't understand.


One last thing, if you want to buy season tickets to the Leafs games, if you apply now, you might be fortunate to get a pair before you die.

C'mon Joey, bring us your "A" game. :rolleyes:

FWIW I was there when they won the Cup (Punch Imlach era)
I bet you were also there when Electrohome fired up their first CRT;)

Oneobgyn,

There have been several dynasties in the NHL: the Toronto Maple Leafs of the 1940s, the Detroit Red Wings and Montréal Canadiens of the 1950s, the Leafs of the 1960s, the Canadiens and New York Islanders of the 1970s, and finally the Oilers of the 1980s.

These are the teams that are remembered as the greatest to ever play in the NHL, but it was the Oilers that rewrote the NHL record book. The Toronto Maple Leafs of the 1940s may have been good, but they never scored 400 times in a season. The Red Wings had Gordie Howe, but the Oilers had Wayne Gretzky. The Canadiens won five Cups in a row, but that was in an era when the League had just six teams and only three or four legitimate contenders. The Leafs of the 1960s were quick, but did not have the speed of Glenn Anderson and Paul Coffey. The Canadiens of the 1970s had class, but the Oilers had youthful inhibition and swagger. It was from the great Islanders team that the Oilers wrested their first of five Stanley Cups.

It is the great debates between hockey fans—who was the greatest hockey team of all time? With five Stanley Cups in seven seasons from 1984 to 1990, the Oilers may be the best the game has seen. "From the Rexall Place website" because I good have never said it any better.

Joey
P.S. I spent $2400.00 for the NHL Center Ice package at work just to get all the Leaf games for one good customer...and my wife is from Toronto so routing agaisnt the Leafs is only allowed when they play the Oilers or else its the spare bedroom..BTW the OIL just trounced Pheonix 7-4....wow!!

joey

You must be a good historian because you are commenting on teams before you were even born. Furthermore the league became so watered down that your comparison in scoring unfortunately is comparing apples to oranges. I will certainly grant you "the Great One". However when the league had six teams that was hockey at its finest. I remember when goalies such as Johnie Bower and Terry Sawschuck never wore masks and took pucks off their faces and skated off got 60 stitches and came back to play. I remember when Jacques Plante was the first goalie to wear a mask. But then again you weren't even born. Your comparisons IMO are too one sided. As I said I will take the Leafs any day over your prairie Oilers

My Grandfather (who played Junior Hockey AS A GOALIE with King Clancey) never watched a game after the first expansion. My father (who went to high school with and played a bit with Bobby Baun) is fond of saying that while the 80's oilers were good, they would have been EATEN ALIVE by almost any of the good original 6 teams. and i agree. once expansion started, every time we added a team, we had about 30 guys who would have never made it before, now getting a place in the show.

Take your biggest baddest guy you can ever imagine and he still would not have stood a chance against Howe. Or Geoffrion, or Richard, or..... it was a different game. Although i know it is post expansion, but Bobby clarke had what it took, and of course... Paul Henderson!

I still love the game, but it is not the same game.

My Grandfather (who played Junior Hockey AS A GOALIE with King Clancey) never watched a game after the first expansion. My father (who went to high school with and played a bit with Bobby Baun) is fond of saying that while the 80's oilers were good, they would have been EATEN ALIVE by almost any of the good original 6 teams. and i agree. once expansion started, every time we added a team, we had about 30 guys who would have never made it before, now getting a place in the show.

Take your biggest baddest guy you can ever imagine and he still would not have stood a chance against Howe. Or Geoffrion, or Richard, or..... it was a different game. Although i know it is post expansion, but Bobby clarke had what it took, and of course... Paul Henderson!

I still love the game, but it is not the same game.

you are right on Dizz

Joey doesn't have a clue about hockey let alone much else.

Precisely my point about expansion. After the 6 original teams it was all diluted and so many players, poor defense and even worse goalies so he can spew all he wants about 400 goals etc. Bear in mind that his Edmonton Oilers started in the World Hockey league same as the Calgary Flames. They moved to Canada and were granted admission as a team to the NHL.

Joey perhaps you should have been there when they turned on the first Electrohome. At least I am firing on all 8 cylinders

Back on topic, I'll be the devil's advocate and ask why you couldn't put two side by side center channel speakers?

A lot of people claim that line arrays with muliples of speakers work great for L-R speakers, so why not for the center channel?

Considering the above that posted about comb filtering, you ALREADY have comb filtering if the center channel speaker has two 'woofers' side by side, why would doubling that make it worse? If anything, you'd get so much comb filtering with 4 woofers that you'd never hear it. I'd say the comb filtering with two identical speakers side by side in a single cabinet would be more pronounced.

NOw, having said the above, I'd agree that the sound stage of the center channel speaker would become wider, but again, the thing about not being equidistant from both speakers is a null and void argument considering again that many center channel speakers have two woofers that you also end up not being equidistant from.

I've heard several 'above/below' screen center channel speaker pairs, and I liked the imaging that came from them.

I had dual center channel speakers side by side for a couple of years, and heard no difference between having one and a pair set up side by side.

Vancouver Canucks, another expansion team. OK I'm back on topic ;)

curt
out of curiosity if you heard no difference between two center channels vs one why have you used two for years?

Joey doesn't have a clue about hockey let alone much else.

You know nothing about me, or my athletic abilities...Past or present..

Forget about setting any high school or college records:) ..
Tell me you have at least laced up a set of skates:rolleyes:
Have you ever put on a helmet for any sport? I somehow doubt it.

Why am I discussing this with you anyway? I just was responding to another bash from CM about my dioxin post and you coming trotting in to his rescue:confused: You don't bring a lhasa Apso to a dogfight:rolleyes:
But you do look cute with that little bow:D

105155

I think dual centers, one below the screen and one above, could be worthwhile to give a phantom image at the screen height.

If they're reasonably equidistant from the listening position, comb filtering ought not to be significant to a fairly high freq.

I'm also skeptical that it's that audible.

I don't remember off-center listeners complaining about it when all we had was a stereo pair.

Having a small difference in the path for the two signals, below 20msec, the brain does not hear it as a disturbing sound.
The comb filtering will just change the characteristics of the original sound, ie timbre, etc.
That is according to Haa's study, by the way.

I don't remember off-center listeners complaining about it when all we had was a stereo pair.
__________________
Noah

That was my original thought process when I put it up for discussion. I have a much smaller 5.1 system in another room, so I think I might take down my rears, make them two centers and report back my findings. The results should be similar to my main system I hope.

Joey

curt
out of curiosity if you heard no difference between two center channels vs one why have you used two for years?

I pulled them out about a year ago. I had a pro PA setup in the HT (it was free) and I never liked the sound of the speakers I used for center channel (small Community speakers). I put the second one in place because 'it was there' ;)

Last year I got an EAW rig on trade in with 4 matched 12" 2 way speakers, so I have three identical speakers across the front, and have the 4th as a spare. No need to put it in at this point. I still am far from happy with the overall sound, but I need to do a bunch of room treatment before playing more with the speakers. Since I don't really use my own HT save for about once every 6 months at this point, it's a low priority.

I never said that anything would be gained with a second center channel (but I do like the sound of above/below screen pairs to bring the sound more to the middle of the screen), I was just questioning whether you'd actually hear comb filtering effects of two speakers side by side. I think you'd be able to measure it with a TEF, but I don't think you'd hear it.

Edit: I didn't read below ob's last post before responding, seems like there's others here that agree with my line of thinking.

You know nothing about me, or my athletic abilities...Past or present..


I remember you said you owned a billiard hall if that counts as athletic abilities

I remember you said you owned a billiard hall if that counts as athletic abilities

Hope you wiped off the Meconium before dishing out that face wash, I dont want to witness the forums first case of MAS.:D:D

Its All Foolishness....

You know nothing about me, or my athletic abilities...Past or present..

Forget about setting any high school or college records:) ..
Tell me you have at least laced up a set of skates:rolleyes:
Have you ever put on a helmet for any sport? I somehow doubt it.

Why am I discussing this with you anyway? I just was responding to another bash from CM about my dioxin post and you coming trotting in to his rescue:confused: You don't bring a lhasa Apso to a dogfight:rolleyes:
But you do look cute with that little bow:D

105155

haha that's hilarious. You guys are almost as entertaining as Morbius and Alimentall in the other thread. Kinda reminds me of Peter Griffin vs the big chicken from Family Guy.:p

haha that's hilarious. You guys are almost as entertaining as Morbius and Alimentall in the other thread. Kinda reminds me of Peter Griffin vs the big chicken from Family Guy.

Almost as entertaining???Were all going hard because the AVS Oscars are up for voting in a month:D:D

this is brutal. all i said was that no post expansion team could hold up to a good pre expansion team.

I made no comments about mssr calda. he is a little brusque at times... but i would have no issues to go by his establishment and quaff beverages, shoot stick and watch HNIC with him. I am even actually wearing a HNIC shirt right now.

I read an email a few years back that talked about the universal way to find Canadians when traveling through airports. Whistle the theme to HNIC and see who looks. you get lots of knowing nods. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kERvuPMhTA&feature=related

What is this HNIC you speak of?


;)

Curt as a Canuck you amaze me

"Hockey Night In Canada"

Don Cherry man

I know, your sport is chesterfield rugby.;) not hockey

this is brutal. all i said was that no post expansion team could hold up to a good pre expansion team.
That is usually the argument made by old timers (or young ones that don't know any better) who suffer from the Garden of Eden sydrome (i.e. nothing is as good as...). Players from the 80's on are far bigger, faster, better trained, in better shape, and more dedicated (there life revolves around the sport). Moreover, the talent pool is [b]substantially[/] larger since the 80s. Even if using Canada as your sole source of talent, the talent pool is dramatically larger, now add the 1/2 dozen nations that also produce elite talent, and you get the idea.

As to the bygone days, when goalies used to play without masks, if they tried that today you would have at least 1 death a year due to some slap shot cracking some goalies head.

Lastly, for the Leafs to be mentioned in the same breath as all the other elite teams you mentioned from other sports, they would have to at least win 1 tittle in the past 4 decades, forget the total lack of appearances. The only team that can be mentioned in Hockey in the same breath as Yankees (btw, Red Sox don't qualify yet), Celtics, Lakers, etc. is the Habs.

Now you old guys can go back to dreaming about the golden ages of times past and tell us how you used to walk 6 miles through 5ft deep snow to buy a loaf of bread.

:p

That is usually the argument made by old timers (or young ones that don't know any better) who suffer from the Garden of Eden sydrome (i.e. nothing is as good as...). Players from the 80's on are far bigger, faster, better trained, in better shape, and more dedicated (there life revolves around the sport). Moreover, the talent pool is [b]substantially[/] larger since the 80s. Even if using Canada as your sole source of talent, the talent pool is dramatically larger, now add the 1/2 dozen nations that also produce elite talent, and you get the idea.

As to the bygone days, when goalies used to play without masks, if they tried that today you would have at least 1 death a year due to some slap shot cracking some goalies head.

Lastly, for the Leafs to be mentioned in the same breath as all the other elite teams you mentioned from other sports, they would have to at least win 1 tittle in the past 4 decades, forget the total lack of appearances. The only team that can be mentioned in Hockey in the same breath as Yankees (btw, Red Sox don't qualify yet), Celtics, Lakers, etc. is the Habs.

Now you old guys can go back to dreaming about the golden ages of times past and tell us how you used to walk 6 miles through 5ft deep snow to buy a loaf of bread.

:p

If you read my posts you would see that I did include the Habs

My point is that Hockey in Toronto is an institution with every game sold out for the past 60 years, unlike the Oilers. I maintain that a similar comparison is indeed the teams that I mentioned. Raul I believe you live close to Toronto so I am a bit surprised. To go to one of their games whenever the era was a sheer rush.

As for goalie deaths I watched many goalies carried off the ice in a pool of blood their faces having been split open because they were hit in the face by some of the hardest slap shots I have ever witnessed.
And as I said to Joey, in Toronto when you are born if you apply for a pair of season tickets you might be fortunate enough to get them before you die

Raul I believe you live close to Toronto so I am a bit surprised. To go to one of their games whenever the era was a sheer rush.
I have been there in box seats in playoff games (against the Canes), and it is an electric atmosphere. I should also note that I lived in Mtl before TO, and my wife is a big Habs fan, thus explaining my allegiances ;) I was mainly harrasing you guys because you were picking on us young ones :)

On a side note, from my perspective, of all sports hockey translates by far the worst to tv. TV does not begin to capture the physicality, size and speed of players, nor the atmosphere of the arena.

I have been there in box seats in playoff games (against the Canes), and it is an electric atmosphere. I should also note that I lived in Mtl before TO, and my wife is a big Habs fan, thus explaining my allegiances ;) I was mainly harrasing you guys because you were picking on us young ones :)

On a side note, from my perspective, of all sports hockey translates by far the worst to tv. TV does not begin to capture the physicality, size and speed of players, nor the atmosphere of the arena.

I agree and that is why being there is like no other sport.


BTW, IMHO it was not until Gretsky was traded to the LA Kings that hockey became recognized as a real sport in this country.
Having said that when HNIC comes on 90% of Canadians are glued to their screens. I never walked 6 miles to get that loaf of bread as my mother baked her own (now if you come back at me that it was on a wooden stove....:D)

Growing up for me was watching the greatest rivalry between the Leafs and the Habs
I watched Plante, Richard(s), Geoffrion, Beliveau etc etc all play at the Gardens

BTW, IMHO it was not until Gretsky was traded to the LA Kings that hockey became recognized as a real sport in this country.
Did you go watch him eliminate the Oilers :D

As to the rivalries, I do think the old timers :p have it right. There is very little in sports in NA that can capture the rivalries fans experienced in the 50s, 60s, and even 70s. By the 80s there were still rivalries, but that was the beginning of the dilution of "hate".

However, soccer fans is another matter, but then, they don't count as a sport in NA ;)

Curt as a Canuck you amaze me


I was being facetious..:)

Sad but true, I went to a semi pro hockey game for the first time about 3 weeks ago. Before that I'd never been to a paid admission sports game of any sort... ever.

To show my ignorance, I couldn't figure out why the teams switched jerseys after the first period... until the g/f told me that they switched arena sides..:eek:

How the heck do the drunks manage to follow hockey games? I was stone cold sober...:p

this is brutal. all i said was that no post expansion team could hold up to a good pre expansion team.

I made no comments about mssr calda. he is a little brusque at times... but i would have no issues to go by his establishment and quaff beverages, shoot stick and watch HNIC with him. I am even actually wearing a HNIC shirt right now.

and I would be more than happy to entertain you...

FTR the only true Dynasty is the BEATLES:)

Unless you are not a big beatles fan... :D

My point on original 6 vs now was not just the rose tinted glasses, but the solid fact that (on the most part) players then were (and HAD TO BE) very well rounded players. there are many specialists nowadays. some well rounded guys to be sure, but i personally like to watch a guy that can make the moves, and get on the Rock em Sock em tapes for both his goal scoring ability, and his hits. not fights mind you, but his ability to mix it up and make his presence known. I enjoy the occaisonal fight, but guys who only do that... i am tired of it. and guys who goal suck and make a great shot when they are fed the puck... looks nice, but it is not what the game is about.

And of course if you have a proper center channel setup, you will have no issues with feeling the thud as somebody is rammed into the glass because he was dumb enough to go into a corner with his head down!

How about that for bringing things back on topic!