I couldn't find any sites or threads that gave any infor more than just that the Tivax box has an EPG.

Can anyone give a quick shoutout to say if it's got Full EPG, or just Now/Next?

Also, can we confirm/deny that retail models have the RS-232 (serial) port? If they do, I'll buy two - there's gotta be SOME way to hack that sucker.......:D

Here is a link to some information on the Tivax STB-T9.

www.ezdigitaltv.com/Tivax_STB-T9.html

There is a picture in the manual with the serial port. It wouldn't be likely but it could happen that it isn't there even though it is in the manual. Hopefully someone that purchased one can respond.

I want a smart antenna on my unit. It looks like this one just allows for the antenna to be pointing in one direction and it never changes.:( Most other units store a position for each channel and the switches when the channel changes. I would like a unit that changes the antenna automatically on the fly during viewing.

The link is http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Tivax_STB-T9.html

Yeah, that was the page that prompted me to make my post. The serial port is secondary; my real concern is with the EPG and why type it has.

Did anyone buy one and if so how good is it?

This box is now available for $49.99 at http://www.consumerelecgroup.com/proddetail.php?prod=DTV-TVX

My mother got her coupons and I ordered two of these boxes for her with a total price of $30.83 after shipping and the application of the two coupons.

Tim

If you play the video on the site in the above message, you will note that the Tivax box actually has a metal case instead of the cheap plastic cases some other CECBs have. It actually looks like a small cable converter from the cable company. Notice also the ventilation holes in the top of the case in addition to the DB-9 RS232 service port. It will be interesting to see how this box performs.

Tim

If you play the video on the site in the above message, you will note that the Tivax box actually has a metal case instead of the cheap plastic cases some other CECBs have. It actually looks like a small cable converter from the cable company. Notice also the ventilation holes in the top of the case in addition to the DB-9 RS232 service port. It will be interesting to see how this box performs.

Tim

I'll order one here soon, and begin working on it from the RS-232 perspective....:D:cool:

Here is a link to some information on the Tivax STB-T9.

www.ezdigitaltv.com/Tivax_STB-T9.html

There is a picture in the manual with the serial port. It wouldn't be likely but it could happen that it isn't there even though it is in the manual. Hopefully someone that purchased one can respond.

I want a smart antenna on my unit. It looks like this one just allows for the antenna to be pointing in one direction and it never changes.:( Most other units store a position for each channel and the switches when the channel changes. I would like a unit that changes the antenna automatically on the fly during viewing.
EIA/CEA-909 interface was designed to SEARCH up to 16 compass headings.
I doubt any of the Smart Antenna implementations would be able to "re-search"
directions while you are watching something without causing significant interruptions.

I'm hoping to see a button action to "re-search" on just the currently viewed channel.
[And I found it wasn't needed all that often.]

=========================
BTW: Continuous update capability is implemented in mobile (e.g. car) DVB-T
(European) receivers using dual or quad antennas.
They have implemented true Maximal Ratio Combining (MRC) receivers,
wherein a separate tuner is used for each antenna input.

Maybe we'll see something similar in Next Gen Smart Antennas.....

[QUOTE=holl_ands;13560796]I'm hoping to see a button action to "re-search" on just the currently viewed channel..][QUOTE]

You can do that from the menu with the RJTech and the DX SmartAntenna.

Did anyone buy one and if so how good is it?

Yes, I just got one I ordered last week from digitalstar.com, Great communication through out the whole ordering + shipping process, & Good shipping response time.

Anyway here are some pictures of the board, remote control and the metal chassis.

I will post some screen shots soon, very impressed with all its features and the user interface and you will soon see why!

Thanks for sharing satpro
Please include a picture of the EPG in your soon to be released screen shots

Can you also confirm Analog PassThru for holl_ands list.
He has suggested that it may have it even though it is not listed as a feature
because of a Transfer Switch Test

How do I activate the passthrough transfer switch test? I saw it mentioned somewhere,
what is procedure discussed to do test?

What impresses me so much about this unit is that most of its features are directly accessible from the remote, no stepping though menus. You can also change channel on the box unlike funias. Here are some more on screen displays, more to come.

EPG and adding/deleting subchannels

There are 4 aspect ratio choices and they behave differently on 4:3 and 16:9 channels.


On 1080i or 720p channels

Normal = 16:9 is letterboxed into 4:3
Zoom = 16:9 is zoomed to fill 4:3 (also called full on some boxes)
Wide = 16:9 anamorfically squezed to 4:3 (select this for native aspect ratio output)
Cinema = Zoomed to center of a 16:9 widescreen frame( good for 16:9 shown inside 4:3 frame on a 16:9 channel, like a double zoom)

jeez did you guys take apart your children like this when they were born. it a decoder box, no secert micro film in side....

On 480i channels

Normal = 4:3 output as 4:3 (select this for native aspect ratio output)
Zoom = 4:3 zoomed into center
Wide = 4:3 trimed at top and bottom to fill a 16:9 screen
Cinema = Double Zoomed


The autoscan on this box makes 2 passes during the process once to determine what channels have a carrier and the next to injest the psip, I will post more about this and the sensitivity later.

home come in normal mode only 3 sides have black bars? not centering the picture

On 480i channels

Normal = 4:3 output as 4:3 (select this for native aspect ratio output)
Zoom = 4:3 zoomed into center
Wide = 4:3 trimed at top and bottom to fill a 16:9 screen
Cinema = Double Zoomed


The autoscan on this box makes 2 passes during the process once to determine what channels have a carrier and the next to injest the psip, I will post more about this and the sensitivity later.

I don't think I like the "Wide" mode. What I want is Wide mode for 1080i/720p programs and Normal for 480i. It does not happen to allow different modes for different source does it?

jeez did you guys take apart your children like this when they were born. it a decoder box, no secret micro film in side....Not all of us have three houses and applied for six coupons.
What six boxes are you getting dagger666, so far we know of two of them?
1. MaxMedia MMDTVB02 | 2. ChannelMaster CM-7000

Why have you created so many threads for different boxes if not to have them taken apart then if "it is just a decoder box"
I know once you do get more of your coupons you will branch out and something other then the MaxMedia or ChannelMaster.
Sansonic FT300A DTV Converter Box (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008314)
Philco TB100HH9 DTV Converter Box (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008310)
MaxMedia (MMDTVB03) - Does it exist? Looks like no. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1003794)

Some of us like to have a box taken apart so we can determine what would be the best box for us.

I for one do appreciate what contributes like satpro are doing for the CECB community and hope that other continue to take theses boxes apart.

These early adopters have taken the plunge and are sharing their findings so we can benefit from them and decide if we would also like that particular converter.

This might be a better example of the aspect ratio output choices on 16:9 HD channels.

This might be a better example of the aspect ratio output choices on 4:3 SD channels.

Great set of pictures for the box and modes on it.:cool: I do think its interesting that the SoC has a Heat sink :D on it like a north bridge chip does. Looks like there was some testing on heat control abit on that?

I do think its interesting that the SoC has a Heat sink...Looks like there was some testing on heat control abit on that?I agree that this is great news for the Tivax and worth remembering.
It should help prolong the life of this Converter Box.

I don't remember seeing any other Converter Boxes with a heat sink but there might be.

How do I activate the pass through transfer switch test? I saw it mentioned somewhere,
what is procedure discussed to do test?I don't think there is anything special required to test.

You would just need to connect with the RF cable and see if you can get any analog stations using your T.V. Remote

Please try with the Tivax both on and off.

The digital would be accessed by channel 3 or 4 depending on the switch on the back of the Tivax so those don't count.

I don't think there is anything special required to test.

You would just need to connect with the RF cable and see if you can get any analog stations using your T.V. Remote

Please try with the Tivax both on and off.

The digital would be accessed by channel 3 or 4 depending on the switch on the back of the Tivax so those don't count.

Wait I am confused. This box is listed as NOT having Analog passthru??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

Does it or doesn't it? IF so I will buy one. I like the pictures of the features and remote

That is an amazing box - they certainly seemed to get things right! As far as the four modes go, I think "Zoom" is 14:9, and "Cinema" takes the center 4:3 of the picture and just displays that.

If you already have a wide screen tv why would you need a decoder box? None of these will give you HD and please don't tell me you fell for the HD ready tv sold with out the HD tuners. That always seam stupid move to me

If you already have a wide screen tv why would you need a decoder box? None of these will give you HD and please don't tell me you fell for the HD ready tv sold with out the HD tuners. That always seam stupid move to me

It would have been perfect for me. All I really use a TV for personally is gaming. So having a TV that would accept an HD signal from an Xbox 360 or PS3 even if it didn't have an HD tuner would suit just fine.

My wife, on the other hand, has different wants.............:p:D;)

Wait I am confused. This box is listed as NOT having Analog passthru??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

Does it or doesn't it? IF so I will buy one. I like the pictures of the features and remote

Can anyone with the BOX give an answer pls

I understand that you want someone with the box, which I do not have. However, I can provide a near immediate response.

The T9 is NOT pass-through equipped according to it, the manufacturer, or the NTIA. However, the posts made earlier are a reminder to check and see if it will do APT even though it's not specified as a feature.

I understand that you want someone with the box, which I do not have. However, I can provide a near immediate response.

The T9 is NOT pass-through equipped according to it, the manufacturer, or the NTIA. However, the posts made earlier are a reminder to check and see if it will do APT even though it's not specified as a feature.

Ok I would like confirmation if I can get it. I e-mailed Tivax and no response.

masquitos site also has it listed an no Passthrough

http://www.freedtvshop.com/fdtv/converters/stbt9.php

If you already have a wide screen tv why would you need a decoder box?Some early widescreen TVs have only NTSC tuners, people have said.None of these will give you HD ...Tivax also sells an HD tuner called the LX1000, and an intermediate model, the STB-T1, neither of them coupon eligible.  I think the T1 outputs only 480i but includes a QAM tuner, or something like that.

If you already have a wide screen tv why would you need a decoder box?


To record HD in widescreen SD via anamorphic transfer. Why else!!!


No analog passthrough even when unplugged, sorry.

Tuner is on par with RCA800B but not as good as my funia box which get 34 channels with a paper clip. Since both tivax and rca use thomson tin can tuner I am not surprised they get very similar results, all in all a good box shows 100% signal on most channels when connected to my real antenna system.

IF the Tivax has pass-thru, it would be under MENU control.....

IF the Tivax has pass-thru, it would be under MENU control.....So this is how we would look/test for all of your suspected boxes not listed with passthru

We would look for a setting in the menu.
So would the box need to be powered on or off?

To record HD in widescreen SD via anamorphic transfer. Why else!!!


No analog passthrough even when unplugged, sorry.

Tuner is on par with RCA800B but not as good as my funia box which get 34 channels with a paper clip. Since both tivax and rca use thomson tin can tuner I am not surprised they get very similar results, all in all a good box shows 100% signal on most channels when connected to my real antenna system.

what is a "funia box" can you give more details

what is a "funia box" can you give more detailsA box made by Funai Corporation (http://www.funai-corp.com/)
Magnavox TB100MW9 http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf
Magnavox TB-100MG9*
Philco TB150HH9*
Philco TB100HH9* http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf

Other brands are
Symphonic | Sylvania | Emerson | Durabrand

A box made by Funai Corporation (http://www.funai-corp.com/)
Magnavox TB100MW9 http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf
Magnavox TB-100MG9*
Philco TB150HH9*
Philco TB100HH9* http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf

Other brands are
Symphonic | Sylvania | Emerson | Durabrand

I have an Emerson 19" HDTV which is made by funai, not the best but not bad for $198.00.

"A box made by Funai Corporation
Magnavox TB100MW9 http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf
Magnavox TB-100MG9*
Philco TB150HH9*
Philco TB100HH9* http://www.funai-corp.com/6pdf/om/TB100HH9.pdf"

So which box does he have? Why not just tell us the brand?

satpro, can you confirm that the Tivax box allows you to manually enter or edit channels without doing a complete rescan/erase?

I think this is the box to go with, but I would like the ability to manually add and delete individual channels and I read somewhere that you can't do that with this box (some CECBs apparently only allow you to do a complete rescan for new channels).

Thanks for the help.

So which box does he have? Why not just tell us the brand?Your original question was not what box satpro had but what a Funai Box is.
satpro has reported having two Magnavox TB100MW9's and made a mod to one "drilled some ventilation holes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13385097#post13385097)"

Your original question was not what box satpro had but what a Funai Box is.
satpro has reported having two Magnavox TB100MW9's and made a mod to one "drilled some ventilation holes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13385097#post13385097)"

Yea I am waiting for the TB100GW9 with passthru to be in Sears stores. I hope the also fixed the vent problem. The box looked different in pic on sears website and at $50 it is worth $10 to get an extra box

lexus check out the TRT thread

i say if channels don't want to get with the program and change to digital then the hell with them. Even the spanish channels 41/47/68 in NY have gone digital.

The screen caps pictured of the Tivax are identical to those of my RJ Tech RJ-900 STB.

So this is how we would look/test for all of your suspected boxes not listed with passthru

We would look for a setting in the menu.
So would the box need to be powered on or off?
If you can access the converter box menus while the box is OFF, give it a try...

If you already have a wide screen tv why would you need a decoder box? None of these will give you HD and please don't tell me you fell for the HD ready tv sold with out the HD tuners. That always seam stupid move to me

Besides all the points mentioned, a CECB is great for Samsung HDTV's PIP. Because it is crippled to Analog only and can only change channels by Up/Down.

satpro, can you confirm that the Tivax box allows you to manually enter or edit channels without doing a complete rescan/erase?

I think this is the box to go with, but I would like the ability to manually add and delete individual channels and I read somewhere that you can't do that with this box (some CECBs apparently only allow you to do a complete rescan for new channels).



Yes, you can manually delete main channels or sub channels, you can also add a channel without doing a rescan by tuning to the freq channel. Also once a channel is in memory you can tune it by entering either the freq or the virtual channel number.

Just took a look at the screen shots.

The graphics/menu system look identical to a 4:3 Insigia 15" LCD TV I have from Best Buy.

The tivax would seem to be a better choice for setting up for recording because even after a power loss the tivax returns to the channel it was on and outputs audio/video.
The RCA and Magnavox units I tested could not do this, they just went back to standby and then had to be manually powered back on and tuned to proper channel.

If you can access the converter box menus while the box is OFF, give it a try...Who could access a box with it powered OFF - I expected more from you :(

I was meaning to see if you could access the Analog stations with the converter box off.

I have stated several times I don't own a converter box yet.
I was wanting to know how people who bought boxes that you have suspected to have PassThru :rolleyes: can test for it.

I apparently don't know the right questions, or didn't know how to ask them correctly LOL.

Duh....Didn't you catch the big grinny smiley???

We know PASS THRU on Philco (& probably also Magnavox) is accessed via menu control.

We know Thomson DTT76850 tin-can tuner uses an ACTIVE SPLITTER, which would need to have power applied.
So look for a menu control. However, it's optional, so may or may not have been implemented in any given box.

Converter boxes marked "Transfer Switch Test" underwent some sort of RF Output/Input isolation test.
Hence we should check to see if it is (or is not) be an Analog Pass Thru switch....

We don't know much of anything else wrt Pass Thru....User Manuals are very poor....

Yes I did catch the big grinny smiley.

We also know PASS THRU on Philco (& probably also Magnavox) is also accessed via "SETUP" held down on remote control.

We know Thomson DTT76850 tin-can tuner uses an ACTIVE SPLITTER, which would need to have power applied.
Duh....I didn't know about the Active Splitter needing power applied :confused:

We don't know much of anything else wrt Pass Thru....User Manuals are very poor....I agree with this one

holl_ands thanks for the reply and mutual respect:D

We know Thomson DTT76850 tin-can tuner uses an ACTIVE SPLITTER, which would need to have power applied. So look for a menu control. However, it's optional, so may or may not have been implemented in any given box.

According to the DTT7685X datasheet (http://www.thomson.net/GlobalEnglish/Products/tuners/Documents/datasheet/Datasheet_DTT7685X_eng.pdf), the active splitter is implemented in the DTT76852 and DTT76854.

Satpro.

As far as I can tell you have tried the Magnovox, Tivax, Sansonic, and RCA
You may have reported others but I can't remember.

Have you tried a GE/Goodmind yet?
The Goodmind is cheap if ordered through Eagle World Industries. (http://eagleworldindustries.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=12)

Looking at your posts the Tivax appears to have more to offer than the Magnovox to me except for sensitivity.

Is the Tivax sensitivity really not as good as the Magnovox?

So far it looks like you like the Magnovox the best is this still true?

I am starting to lean towards getting one of these online.

I like the type of units that you can remove the subchannels by themselves. The magnavox dvd\vcr I have as far as channels go it's all or nothing it will not let you pick and chose.

I figure the magnavox at walmart is the same as my unit-the manual reads the same as far as channel add/delete goes. I wish it would add delete like the DS DTX9900 and my db-2010 and my Pany ez27 Cause you can't beat the after coupon price...

I was going to purchase a Zenith DTA converter box, but with all the problems, I'm going to skip that box.

The question is then: Tivax STB-T9 with the Thompson tin-can tuner or the Philco TB150HH9 with it's funai tuner?

Which do you all who have used one or the other or both recommend?

For some reason, the Philco unnit at SolidSignal is $79+ and the Tivax is $49+
Is there a reason for that big difference in price?

Tivax has a heatsink and ventilation holes, funias do not.
Tivax has a serial port for any future hacks/upgrades funias do not.
Tivax has one step controls on the remote and funias require multiple steps through menu.
Tivax has channel controls on unit, funias do not
Tivax goes back to tuned channel after power loss, funias go into standby and must be powered on and retuned to channel.
Tivax has better graphics, funias look like a 1980s commodore 64.
Tivax has metal chassis, Funia is plastic.
Tivax has a better size remote that actually works, Funias remote is like a 1980s sears color TV remote control, buttons are microscopic and dont make contact well.

Seeing a pattern everybody?

Tivax is more feature rich.
The small gain in tuner sensitivity is not enough to matter.

funias = any magnavox,sylvania,philco

Just received the Tivax box today. One thing I don't like about it already is the zoom functions. If tuned to a HD channel broadcasting upconverted 4:3 content the normal mode results in a picture with black all around (postage stamp effect). This is normal and I fully expect this and the box does give you the choice to zoom the picture to fill the screen. If the zoom mode is on for a HD channel, it is also on for standard def channels resulting in an overzoomed picture. The Tivax doesn't compensate the zoom function between HD & SD broadcast stations. Yes you can put the zoom mode back to normal for SD channels but it's an inconvenience to keep switching zoom modes between HD & SD channels every time you flip channels.
I also have the Channel Master CM-7000 and it can be set to fill a 4:3 screen without having to switch zoom modes between HD & SD channels. And yes I'm fully aware that HD channels (when sending HD content) will have the sides cutoff or cropped. My Mom likes to have her picture filling the screen. :)

Other than the zoom function it's an ok box.

you can put the zoom mode back to normal for SD channels but it's an inconvenience to keep switching zoom modes between HD & SD channels every time you flip channels.


I have noticed this too but since you can cycle through the aspect ratio controls very easily with the remote it is a minor inconvience compared to boxes like the magnavox which make you step through the menu system to change anything.

Perhaps this is something they can change in any potential serial updates.

[QUOTE=jimboy;13783098] Yes you can put the zoom mode back to normal for SD channels but it's an inconvenience to keep switching zoom modes between HD & SD channels every time you flip channels.[QUOTE]

I have noticed this too but since you can cycle through the aspect raios very easily with the remote it is a minor inconvience compared to boxes like the magnavox which make you step through the menu system to change anything.

My Mom won't accept "a minor inconvenience". She just wants it to work as simple as analog tv does. Any box that can fill a 4:3 screen properly without switching anything and doesn't have audio issues with some 5.1 surround channels will work fine for her. For me I agree the aspect switching is minor but it's something that could have been avoided with proper design. All in an effort to keep the cost down?

Just shows what a failure the cecb approval process really is/was, since all the boxes have flaws, some more then others, the zenith/insignia box audio problem being the worst problem of any box out there, yet people foolishly keep buying them and the stores selling them get away with passing off defective merchandise on the public without any consequences.


The Tivax is still worth the 10-20 bucks out of pocket compared to other boxes out there which are really poorly thought out like magnavox or defective junk like zenith/insignia.

Interested that the only station (39) this box can pull in on my small antenna is 1000 kw. All my comparisons were made between 6-8pm. None of my other boxes perform as poorly as the sansonic, heck my 7 year old dtc 100 has better sensitivity.

Best to worst in sensitivity on my small test antenna.
Funia (walmart)
Coship
Tivax
RCA
Sansonic

I also have various other digital tuners, dmr-ez17 panasonic, voom DSR 5500 OTA (moto), T451 samsung. None are as poor as sansonic. :(
Tivax is more feature rich.
The small gain in tuner sensitivity is not enough to matter.
Satpro is the Tivax more feature rich than the Coship too?

You have also said that zenith/insignia are defective junk because of the audio problems.

According to the CECB list the CoShip also has a LG SoC so does it also have audio problems?

Just shows what a failure the cecb approval process really is/was, since all the boxes have flaws, some more then others,

So you expect a less than $50-ish box to be PERFECT? :rolleyes: The coupon program is doing exactly what it was designed to do: get boxes out at the lowest cost.

Do you suppose (or expect) all the lesss than $50 DVD players out there to be flawless as well?

Satpro is the Tivax more feature rich than the Coship too?

You have also said that zenith/insignia are defective junk because of the audio problems.

According to the CECB list the CoShip also has a LG SoC so does it also have audio problems?

Yes the Tivax has more features than Coship. And no the Coship does not have the audio problems of other LG based cecb boxes so there imust be some major design differences between them.

So you expect a less than $50-ish box to be PERFECT? :rolleyes:


No I expect it to function as required by the ntia approval process, clearly it is unacceptable for zenith/insignia or any maker to be allowed to continue to participate and profit off of the cecb program when they are not meeting the requirement for functioning audio. Whoever is/was responsible for the approval process is derelict in their duty to insure that these boxes are functional and free of major design flaws like audio problems. Last time I checked audio, video, CC data all went into making a TV signal, but you should know that shouldnt you?;)

This is a serious matter to people who will really need to rely on these boxes, unlike us hobbyists who play with these boxes for a few days then toss them into a box, some people will need to use these boxes for years to come.
I think it is pretty lousy to think that these same people are paying $25 bucks out of pocket during hard times for a box like the zenith that is malfunctioning.

I bet you are pretty pissed when you receive some gear that does not meet standards so you should relate.

Whoever is/was responsible for the approval process is derelict in their duty to insure that these boxes are functional and free of major design flaws like audio problems.

Similar to FCC approval processes, the CECB program relies on self-certification, so the manufacturer is primarily responsible for testing the boxes and meeting requirements. NTIA approval is based on reviewing test results supplied by manufacturer, and additionally the NTIA reserves the right to perform its own verification. Thus it is not difficult for manufacturers to rush things and/or cut corners yet still obtain approval.

That said, the NTIA rules don't include requirements for audio fidelity (an unfortunate oversight as they do include video quality requirements), so it's frustrating to see zenith/insignia/lg producing an obviously flawed product, but it's not clear they've broken any rules.

No I expect it to function as required by the ntia approval process.

I think that jll544 is correct here. The NTIA is a government entity. I wouldn't
expect them do any more than they have or have to. I'm surprised the program has worked as well as it has.:eek:

Do I think the boxes should work better? Yes, but as a beta site for PSIP and broadcast flag implementation I can tell you there are a lot of much more expensive receivers (and TV's) that don't work near as well as some of these coupon boxes. Way too many here, especially newbies who want to TYPE first, THINK second, and READ third..expect way too much of these boxes.:rolleyes:

And yea, I don't like it when I get gear that doesn't work right. But I also know enough not to expect a $15 box to work as well as a $1000 product. Not that there's any expensive consumer (or broadcast) products that don't work right either... ;)

Besides, All the retailers and mfg's I have spoken with tell me they are losing money on this program.
I have direct contact with the mfg on one of the boxes so I'm familiar with their side of the story. :)

I also know enough not to expect a $15 box to work ...

Besides, All the retailers and mfg's I have spoken with tell me they are losing money on this program.

Hey wait a minute now, it is not $15, they are getting at least another $40 from the program, multiply that by millions of units sold and you are telling me they are still loosing money? Yea right, then why would any company want to participate, is somebody forcing them to loose money? I think this program is ripe with speculators looking to make a quick buck at the consumers expense, and most of these same speculattors wont be around in 2 years to support these products. Pure speculation but zenith/insignia could have had some bad boards laying around and they have found a nice legal way to dump them and pick up some cash to recoop loses.

As to this whole self certification deal if this is true it proves what a bunch of bull the approval process is.

[QUOTE=satpro;13783338][QUOTE=jimboy;13783098] Yes you can put the zoom mode back to normal for SD channels but it's an inconvenience to keep switching zoom modes between HD & SD channels every time you flip channels.

My Mom won't accept "a minor inconvenience". She just wants it to work as simple as analog tv does. Any box that can fill a 4:3 screen properly without switching anything and doesn't have audio issues with some 5.1 surround channels will work fine for her. For me I agree the aspect switching is minor but it's something that could have been avoided with proper design. All in an effort to keep the cost down?

Even if the Tivax have separate zoom settings for HD and SD broadcast. Your mom still won't be happy because the Zoom function may work for one program but not the other. Not all programs are broadcasted in letter box. Your mom will have to use the zoom button eventually.

Similar to FCC approval processes, the CECB program relies on self-certification, so the manufacturer is primarily responsible for testing the boxes and meeting requirements. NTIA approval is based on reviewing test results supplied by manufacturer, and additionally the NTIA reserves the right to perform its own verification. Thus it is not difficult for manufacturers to rush things and/or cut corners yet still obtain approval.

That said, the NTIA rules don't include requirements for audio fidelity (an unfortunate oversight as they do include video quality requirements), so it's frustrating to see zenith/insignia/lg producing an obviously flawed product, but it's not clear they've broken any rules.

NTIA approval process (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVmanufacturer_053007.pdf)
(1) Notice of Intent (NOI) submission
(a) A brief description of the converter box, including permitted as well as required features
The date on which the samples and test report for the proposed converter(s) may be ready for submission for review.
(b) Submitting the samples and test report will be electronically sent to the contact person listed in the NOI.

(2) Testing Guidance
(a) Recommended that the tests be performed with a High Definition data stream (i.e., resolution of 720p or higher) with motion.
(b) Field Ensembles (#14): NTIA encourages manufacturers to specify which 30 of the 50 field ensembles identified in ATSC A/74 were tested
successfully.
(c) Single Static Echo (#15): NTIA encourages manufacturers to specify whether the model was tested against Criteria A or Criteria B as defined in Technical Appendix 1. If Criteria B is chosen, manufacturers should identify which 37 of the 50 field ensembles were tested successfully.
(d) EPA Energy Star Program — which is a permitted but not required specification for Coupon-Eligible Converter Boxes (CECBs) — should seek certification from EPA that the CECB meets all requirements for certification under the EPA program.

(3) Test Report (format and content) guidance
(a) The test report is to be sent to Art Wall, Technical Advisor at NTIA encouraged to submit the test report in an electronic format using Microsoft Word, pdf or jpg type files.
(b) Test reports demonstrate that each model proposed to be a CECB meets all the performance specifications and features set forth in Technical Appendix 1 of the Final Rule as well as applicable FCC Rules.
(c) Each model proposed may include ‘‘permitted’’ features but shall not include ‘‘disqualifying’’ features.
(d) NTIA encourages applicants to include in the test report information such as:
1. An operational description of each proposed CECB.
2. A final copy of the proposed manual that will be provided to the end user.
3. A list of equipment (complete with calibration data) used by the manufacturer when performing each of the required tests.
4. A block diagram showing all the major elements of each proposed CECB.
5. A block diagram depicting the equipment used and the measurement setup for each test.
6. Internal and external photographs of each proposed CECB. The photographs should be of sufficient clarity to show the make and model number on the label, the front panel controls, connection points on the back panel, internal components and circuit board layouts.

(4) shipping of samples
Manufacturers are to supply two production sample converter boxes
shipped to the Bill Hurst; DTV Converter Coupon Program FCC Laboratory

(5) NTIA processing.
The manufacturer’s report of each proposed CECB will be reviewed for
accuracy and completeness and to determine:
(1) If the proposed model meets the performance specifications in Technical Appendix 1
(2) If the proposed CECB includes permitted features listed in Technical Appendix 2, that those features function properly
(3) That the proposed CECB does not contain a disqualifying feature.

NTIA/ FCC testing will be performed on some or all of the models.
The level of testing will be based on engineering judgments during the review of the test report.

So I would say that for the most part you were correct jll544:D

But I don't think that those boxes with a FCC ID are any better.
The CoShip has a FCC ID but both satpro and bdfox18doe did not like it

The CoShip has a FCC ID but both satpro and bdfox18doe did not like it

But No FCC Sticker on it IIRC.

As to this whole self certification deal if this is true it proves what a bunch of bull the approval process is.


Self certification has been the norm for ages at the FCC, they don't test cell phones, for example, they take the test report, review it.. and certify if things look good.



John

In other words rubber stamped certification, doesn't surprise me that this is how it works! I was speaking of NTIA certification but I assume all bureaucracies with allegiance to special interest and not the public interest operate in the same way!

! I assume all bureaucracies with allegiance to special interest and not the public interest operate in the same way!

I assumed that was the way our government operates anyway..:rolleyes:

Does anyone know if you can add channels with this unit? I live in a fringe reception area and use a rotator. I'm concerned the autoscan won't find all available channels. I'm staying away from the LGs with the left channel problem. I like the CM-7000, but my coupon wont wait. The only other option is a funia.

well if digitalstar.com is on the ball i expect my boxes by the end of the week. Should be some fun testing over the weekend i hope(weather permitting). Spring gives me a fair idea of how these tivax boxes will perform in a crappy environment hehe.

A question here as well(you might even classify it as a hypothetical question). All CECB boxes start out as full featured chips right? Then they are "dumbed down" to meet FCC rules on CECB boxes? Is this correct?

well if digitalstar.com is on the ball i expect my boxes by the end of the week. Should be some fun testing over the weekend i hope(weather permitting). Spring gives me a fair idea of how these tivax boxes will perform in a crappy environment hehe.

A question here as well(you might even classify it as a hypothetical question). All CECB boxes start out as full featured chips right? Then they are "dumbed down" to meet FCC rules on CECB boxes? Is this correct?

That's correct. Lots of these tuners are built for OTA,Cable and some even
do European digital tv standards.. ITs cost effective.. THey wouldnt want
to start a line to make chips for a limited production run of chips for a program that will end.. Another reason. Easier to just turn that feature off
in software :P



John.;)

If you already have a wide screen tv why would you need a decoder box? None of these will give you HD and please don't tell me you fell for the HD ready tv sold with out the HD tuners. That always seam stupid move to me

Because back when I purchased my wide screen, 1080i, HD TV, they had no built-in HD tuners (no ATSC, no QAM). Just the ol' NTSC tuner.

I still don't think it was a stupid move, as you claim. The alternative you are suggesting would have been to buy a large screen SD 4:3 set, and today I would still have that SD set. :rolleyes:

But you do point out a major flaw with the coupon program. It doesn't support all "early adopters" of HD, who now need a HD tuner with 720/1080
component output.

That's correct. Lots of these tuners are built for OTA,Cable and some even
do European digital tv standards.. ITs cost effective.. THey wouldnt want
to start a line to make chips for a limited production run of chips for a program that will end.. Another reason. Easier to just turn that feature off
in software

So, what we need is the equivalent to a cell phone's "seem edit", which would re-enable these features? ;)

the one thing id love to see turned back "on" would be QAM(if its possible) but wouldnt do me much good on 4:3 tv :(

But you do point out a major flaw with the coupon program. It doesn't support all "early adopters" of HD, who now need a HD tuner with 720/1080 component output.It's not supposed to. And if you think about it, it really shouldn't have to.

If you want a full-featured piece of A/V gear, go out and spend the money. You really don't expect our government to be subsidizing it, do you? What - are you one of these "Everythings free in America!" kind of immigrants or something?

If you were an early adopter that bought a display without an ATSC tuner, that's your problem. Everyone else who did so has bought an outboard tuner by now. If you haven't, you've probably been using a provider's tuner. So keep on using that. What were you doing all these years? Watching stuff through it's NTSC tuner? And just waiting for someone to practically give you a free ATSC one?

Settle for the subsidized SD one and shut up or go out and spend the money on an HD one already.

I'm really getting tired of reading this here. If you're just a green newbie to all this stuff, go and read through the HDTV hardware forums and see what people had to spend to receive HD all these years. HD is a luxury, NOT a necessity.

Settle for the subsidized SD one and shut up or go out and spend the money on an HD one already.

I'm really getting tired of reading this here. If you're just a green newbie to all this stuff, go and read through the HDTV hardware forums and see what people had to spend to receive HD all these years. HD is a luxury, NOT a necessity.Amen to that----- I'm one of the ones that bought a rear projection without an atsc tuner because it was half the cost of one with a digital tuner, I purchased a tuner later that was almost half the cost of tuners at the time.

That was 5 years ago

Now I have two dvd recorders with digital tuner that cost less than that tuner. Tuners can be had for a song and dance these days. I have 3 of those that output hdtv that cost around 40 bucks a piece

The coupon units in my opinion are great for upgrading a regular analog tv and at 40 dollars off what's there to complaining about????:rolleyes:

I thought this was the Tivax thread.

But I thought I'd blow off some steam like everyone else:D

Yes, we are all getting tired. =P

First post here. Hope someone can use this info to help us all out.

I recently purchased the Tivax STB-T9 and the Artec T3A Pro. First off, I agree with those who say the "Zoom" functions on the Tivax completely suck. I don't want to have to switch the aspect ratio each time I change channels, so I would never use this box on a regular basis. The Artec is much nicer from that standpoint.

However, one of the reasons I bought the Tivax was to experiment with it. So I recently hooked up a serial cable to see what I could see. For anyone interested in doing the same, I think I ended up using a null modem cable to get it to work right.

My terminal settings were: Baud - 115200, Data bits - 8, Parity - none, Stop bits - 1.

This got me through to a "Zmon" prompt. But, I'm not really sure what that is.

I captured a few logs of the serial output which I will attach to this post. The first was simply the "help" output. The next was the "help all" which gives more details on each command. And the third was the output from the "config" command, which prints out a config file.

If anyone has any suggestions for me to try while I have this hooked up, I'm all ears.

Very useful! This is what I was hoping someone could do (haven't ordered my Tivax yet).

If you would be so kind, open up the serial connection before turning the unit on, and see if you get any kind of data as you power the unit up - maybe it outputs its boot process to the serial connection (I knew an ATSC tuner that did).

OMG!

From Config-1.txt:

...
option SUPPORT_DTT768XX_AFT 0
option SUPPORT_POWER_SAVE_MODE 0
option SUPPORT_740_LOW_POWER 0
option SUPPORT_EAS 1
option SUPPORT_QAM 1
option SUPPORT_CHMAP_ANALOG_DIGITAL_INTERLEAVE 1
option SUPPORT_NEW_CHANNELSCAN 1
option SHOW_VIRTUALCHANNEL_COUNT 1
...
override SUPPORT_BDF_FONT 0
override SUPPORT_ZTF_FONT 1
override SUPPORT_QAM 0
override ZTVAPP_CONV_BOX 1
override FORCE_AC3_RAM_MIXED_CODE 1
override SUPPORT_DIRECTPES_AUDIO 0
override SUPPORT_ANALOG_AUDIO 0

If you would be so kind, open up the serial connection before turning the unit on, and see if you get any kind of data as you power the unit up - maybe it outputs its boot process to the serial connection (I knew an ATSC tuner that did).

Here's the log from the boot sequence.

Thanks - I'll dig on them what I can, and hopefully get my own box here soon too.

whitepelican, excellent work! If it can be figured out how to hack this box, then it elevates it to the top of my list.

I realize cross-posting is frowned upon, but should this also be listed in the "Hacking the CECB's" thread?

Here's the log from the boot sequence.

It is definitely C code. I couldn't tell what OS is running. It is linking libpng which is open sourced.

SupraHD ZR39740 Rev Unknown.
ZORAN SUPRA-HD Software

I couldn't tell what OS is running.
ThreadX (http://www.rtos.com/txtech.asp)

So we can see that the remote probably used NEC codes, from this:
override SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 1

whitepelican, here is a wild guess, but try typing in this:

set override SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0

or maybe:

set SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0

or maybe:

option SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0

you can always enter:

help set

to see if it tell you any more. If successful, you can do another config and see if the value changes.

Of course, it is up to you if you want to try this or not, and this is just a guess. This *seems* like it would be harmless. If it works, you can set it back to 1.

My terminal settings were: Baud - 115200, Data bits - 8, Parity - none, Stop bits - 1.
This got me through to a "Zmon" prompt.
What was the Flow control set to? Xon/Xoff, Hardware, or None

I am assuming that HyperTerminal with Windows will work too.

You mentioned bash prompt so does this mean you were using Linux or hoping that the Tivax had bash.

What is it running I have seen both Linux and WindowsCE
option TL_LINUX 0
option TL_WINCE 0

I don't know if the prompt has different user modes like a Cisco Router.
User Mode >config
Privileged Mode #config

But looking at the boot log it may be setting things under this user mode
option SUPPORT_MACROVISION 1 (Turn on Macrovision)
option SUPPORT_VGA_MENU 0 (Turn off VGA Menu)
option SUPPORT_QAM 1 (Turn on QAM)

Look HOLL-ANDS it does have PASSTHRU but not enabled in the menu.
option SUPPORT_INTERNAL_RF_OUT 0
option SUPPORT_RF_OUT_MENU 0
Tivax should release a firmware update to customers/retailers so they don't loose sales to other passthru boxes.

I bet with the menu enabled it will turn these ones on if enabled.
option SUPPORT_NTSC 0
option SUPPORT_ANALOG_AUDIO 0
option SUPPORT_ANALOG_VIDEO 0

It does look like it is not capable of everything it lists
option SUPPORT_HDMI 0
option SUPPORT_INTERNAL_AUDIO 1

But when it is booting why change the default like this OFF:
option SUPPORT_AUX 0

To OFF again with an override
override SUPPORT_AUX 0

I can see the default being changed when it it not supported like:
option SUPPORT_INTERNAL_AUDIO 1
override SUPPORT_INTERNAL_AUDIO 0

I wonder what other EPG it might be capable of showing
override SUPPORT_SINGLE_CHANNEL_EPG 1

So can you change anything over the terminal/serial connection?

I would try something that you can see changed such as
option SUPPORT_RF_OUT_MENU 0

However, I don't know if this one has to be set also as it gets loaded first
option SUPPORT_INTERNAL_RF_OUT 0

If you can change does the setting get saved or is it only loaded until the box looses power.

It does look like it is loading configuration files during boot.
I wonder if you would have to modify these files to make changes.

I only mentioned bash because I was (probably mistakenly) thinking there was a *nix based system running in there somewhere.


Edit: Flow control is set to XON/XOFF

the QAM part is of notice to me. Have you tried altering it and running a scan with cable hooked up? This is a welcome find for the text files you have posted. Many thanks.

Waiting for my Tivax boxes to arrive - following was found in searching zoran.com

"The SupraHD family of highly integrated high definition digital TV processors are single IC HDTV solutions intended to meet the requirements for Digital Television receivers and unidirectional Integrated Digital Cable Ready markets."

and

"Zoran Demonstrates Latest Set-Top Box and Digital Television Technologies for Manufacturers at CCBN 2008 in Beijing

Processors Power Digital TVs, Set-Top and Converter Boxes Shipping to Global Markets

Sunnyvale, Calif. - March 19, 2008 - Zoran Corporation (Nasdaq: ZRAN) is demonstrating its newest digital television, set-top and converter box processors for consumer electronics manufacturers in Hall 1B, Booth B164 at the China Cable Broadcasting Network (CCBN) 2008 conference from March 21 to 23 in Beijing.

Zoran’s SupraHD® 760, 770, and 780 processors power digital television products under brands such as Daewoo, Dell, Hitachi, Best Buy’s Insignia, Orion, Proscan, RCA, Sanyo, Sharp, Sceptre, Toshiba and others.

Zoran’s SupraHD® 741 processors power NTIA- certified ATSC converter boxes for the U.S. broadcast transition including models from AMTC, AccessHD, Apex Digital, MicroGem, RCA, Tivax, and others."

a search for "linux" on the zoran site shows they are looking for people with linux/unix experience. hope this helps.

sorry, newbie can't post links here but here is more info:
"SupraHD 741
ATSC Converter Box
SupraHD® 741 reference design consists of a set-top-box ready for manufacturing and a set-top-box application with complete middleware software stack, including closed-caption support. The set-top-box accepts all the ATSC formats (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) and outputs 480i to a NTSC TV.


* Overview
* Features
* Diagrams

Overview

The SupraHD® 741 Processor is highly integrated, consisting of an 8VSB demodulator, an MPEG-2 HD decoder, high-performance CPU, graphics engine, video scaler, channel 3 / 4 modulator, stereo audio DAC and integrated sleep mode support without a microcontroller. It also supports a variety of system interfaces, such as an infrared receiver, flash memory and DDR SDRAM interfaces. The decoded ATSC video stream can be output in composite (CVBS), and S-video (Y/C, optional) and channel 3 / 4 RF modulated formats.

Audio can be output in analog format (L/R). Designed to use the minimum external components, the SupraHD® 741 Processor requires only memory, ATSC tuner, power supply, and a small number of passive components to build a complete ATSC converter box.
SupraHD 741 NTIA Compliance Summary
NTIA Item # NTIA ATSC Converter Box (DTA) Requirements SupraHD® 741 Converter Box Compliance
1 Decoder ✔
2 Output Formats ✔
3 PSIP Processing ✔
4 Tuning Range ✔
5 RF Input ✔
6 RF Output ✔
7 Composite Output ✔
8 RF Dynamic Range ✔
9 Phase Noise ✔
10 ✔
11 First Adjacent Channel Rejection ✔
12 Taboo Channel Rejection ✔
13 Burst Noise ✔
14 Field Ensembles ✔
15 Single Static Echo ✔
16 Channel Display ✔
17 Close Captioning, EAS, Parental Control (V-Chip) ✔
18 Remote Control ✔ (Manufacturer to provide)
19 Audio Outputs ✔
20 Energy Standards ✔
21 Owner’s Manual ✔ (Manufacturer to provide)
22 LED Indicator ✔
23 RF Cable ✔ (Manufacturer to provide)
24 Signal Quality Indicator ✔
Package Contents

* ATSC converter box reference design
* Power adapter, remote control, and necessary cables
* Pre-loaded ATSC software on flash memory
* Production proven Zoran ATSC middleware and fonts
* Complete documentation for reference design, software, and IC on a CD-ROM

Key Hardware Features
# SupraHD® 741 Processor
# SPI Flash Memory: 1MByte
# DDR SDRAM: 32MByte (16M x 16b)
# ATSC Tuner
# Video Out: 480i composite (CVBS), S-Video (Y/C, optional)
# Audio Out: L/R analog
# IR Remote, I2C
# Ch 3/4 RF out
# Smart antenna (optional)
System Software Features
# NTIA & Energy Star Compliant
# ATSC converter box application software
# PSIP parsing for channel map
# Digital Closed-Captioning (EIA-608)
# Transport, video decode (single MP@HL), audio decode (AC-3, MPEG Layer 1/2/3), graphics, and display drivers
# Peripheral drivers for tuner and demodulator
# Thread-X royalty-free operating system
SupraHD® 741 Block Diagram
SupraHD® 741 Block Diagram (PNG)
(PNG)
SupraHD® 741 System Architecture
SupraHD® 741 System Architecture (PNG)
SupraHD® 741 User Interface
SupraHD® 741 User Interface (PNG)":)

from supra hd site:
"
Key Hardware Features
# SupraHD® 741 Processor
# SPI Flash Memory: 1MByte
# DDR SDRAM: 32MByte (16M x 16b)
# ATSC Tuner
# Video Out: 480i composite (CVBS), S-Video (Y/C, optional)
# Audio Out: L/R analog
# IR Remote, I2C
# Ch 3/4 RF out
# Smart antenna (optional)
System Software Features
# NTIA & Energy Star Compliant
# ATSC converter box application software
# PSIP parsing for channel map
# Digital Closed-Captioning (EIA-608)
# Transport, video decode (single MP@HL), audio decode (AC-3, MPEG Layer 1/2/3), graphics, and display drivers
# Peripheral drivers for tuner and demodulator
# Thread-X royalty-free operating system"

is at this "zoran.com/SupraHD-741?var_recherche=program+supra+hd#nogo"

from supra hd site:
"
Key Hardware Features
# SupraHD® 741 Processor
# SPI Flash Memory: 1MByte
# DDR SDRAM: 32MByte (16M x 16b)
# ATSC Tuner
# Video Out: 480i composite (CVBS), S-Video (Y/C, optional)
# Audio Out: L/R analog
# IR Remote, I2C
# Ch 3/4 RF out
# Smart antenna (optional)
System Software Features
# NTIA & Energy Star Compliant
# ATSC converter box application software
# PSIP parsing for channel map
# Digital Closed-Captioning (EIA-608)
# Transport, video decode (single MP@HL), audio decode (AC-3, MPEG Layer 1/2/3), graphics, and display drivers
# Peripheral drivers for tuner and demodulator
# Thread-X royalty-free operating system"

Does it mean that it does not support QAM?

Yes, since the 741 was specifically targeted for CECB, the specs do not include QAM.
I would be surprised if it can simply be turned "ON".

The SupraHD 770 and 780 include QAM...and a bunch of other stuff:
http://www.zoran.com/SupraHD-770

The earlier SupraHD 640/660/680 series used external Cascade2 (CAS-220) chips:
http://www.zoran.com/IMG/pdf/SupraHD_Family.pdf
http://www.zoran.com/Cascade2

holl_ands do you think that it does have PASSTHRU but not enabled in the menu?
option SUPPORT_INTERNAL_RF_OUT 0
option SUPPORT_RF_OUT_MENU 0

So we can see that the remote probably used NEC codes, from this:
override SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 1

whitepelican, here is a wild guess, but try typing in this:
set override SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0
or maybe:
set SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0
or maybe:
option SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0
you can always enter:
help set
to see if it tell you any more. If successful, you can do another config and see if the value changes.

Of course, it is up to you if you want to try this or not, and this is just a guess. This *seems* like it would be harmless. If it works, you can set it back to 1.

I can't seem to find a way to get any of these commands to work. Everything I try with "set" gives me "Syntax error: bad integer". If I try using just "option" or "override" both say there is no such command. I've tried every combination I can think of, but none of these commands are correct.

I can't seem to find a way to get any of these commands to work. Everything I try with "set" gives me "Syntax error: bad integer". If I try using just "option" or "override" both say there is no such command. I've tried every combination I can think of, but none of these commands are correct.

Try /Set /set or Set: or set: possibly.
You are using 0 and 1 for Off and On correct?

From your help all.
history ................................ history display up to 20 previous commands executed
set <index> <value> .............. set to set current val at particular index type set <index> <value>
tunerinfo ............................. tunerinfo show tuner settings

If you haven't tried to many things it would be interesting what history would show.
The tunerinfo command may also confirm if PassThur is supported.

Does it change modes when using config like Cisco?
Router#config
Router(config)#

Try /Set /set or Set: or set: possibly.
You are using 0 and 1 for Off and On correct?

It recognizes the command "set" just fine, I just can't seem to get the correct syntax. I've been using commands like "set SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0". It always comes back with a syntax error.

I think "set" is not the command we're looking for to change those values.

ZMon>set SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0
Syntax error: bad integer
ZMon>option SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0
Invalid command. Try "help"
ZMon>override SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0
Invalid command. Try "help"
ZMon>set 0 SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE
Syntax error: bad integer

ZMon>set
Try a index between 1 & 419
ZMon>help set
to set current val at particular index type set <index> <value>

What does tunerinfo show?

Also what does history show?
Does the history get cleared when it looses power?

What does tunerinfo show?
ZMon>tunerinfo
740 Firmware Version ID = 0b01,0107,0260,0010,0010,0000
Also what does history show?
ZMon>history
!1 set
Does the history get cleared when it looses power?

Yes.

Could you post the output of symname, symaddr, and vars?

ZMon>symname
SUPPORT_ZSYMTAB is off
ZMon>symaddr
SUPPORT_STACKTRACE is off

See attachment for "vars".

*deleted* Never mind, I should have read all the text files first before posting a clueless ZMON suggestion

Thanks again to whitepelican for this breakthrough.

I think the syntax for the "set" command (set index value) may require "index" to be an actual number (from 1 thru 419, as you were told when you entered "set" with no arguments), so the question is: What range of memory or array (of length 419) does the index point into, and what does each index in that array affect?

Maybe the "view" command (with no arguments) will give a list of indexes (or indices, if you prefer) in the TL_controlarray (whatever that is), and MAYBE that's what you can set with the "set" command. (You could also try "view 1 0", "view 1 1", etc., through "view 419 1", the second argument being "useTabs" off/on -- see Help All.txt

By the way, the Zoran SoC is known to be used in several CECBs, as can be seen at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

-Bob, a.k.a. rrrrrrobert

I have mine hooked up via RS-232.

Here is a list of parameters:

I can emulate IR code using the Zmon:

I can even access to functions not available on remote. e.g. Freeze

To enter channel number "7-2", I use:

"zir 7"
"zir -"
"zir 2"

I bet that the MicroGEM remote would also let you control the Tivax.
You could then Freeze.

If satpro still has access to his friends MicroGEM he could test.
Looks like you would need a programmable remote to get access to everything.

I was also wondering if the volume on your Tivax is low.
My brother bought one and told me it was he is using composite cables.

Do you guys know what codes it is using?

Nightowl4 told me the Falcon Digital CECB are using the same codes as Toshiba TV so if you change volume with the Toshiba remote it changes it on the TV and the box.

The Tivax vol starts off mid-way. Most recommend maxing it out and use the TV's volume control.

Received 2 Tivax stb-t9 today. They were easy to setup. I am able to pick up all the ATSC channels my Olevia 32" HDTV gets which is 2 channels that my Hauppage Win-tv HVR1600 can't detect. Picture quality is good so far on all channels - surprising since our rooftop antenna is 1970's vintage and needs replacing And we are about 60 miles from the broadcast towers.
I'm glad you guys are here and let me know about the Tivax as previously I had read reviews that pointed to the Magnavox as the best CECB at least the most sensitive tuner. My Brother in law got his coupons first, so he picked up Magnavox units locally. When my coupons arrived, the local stores were sold out of the CECB's so I stated to look into other options online...

Read about the heat issues on some CECB's and a visit to my brother in law's confirmed the pretty much unvented and all plastic Magnavox was too hot to put your hand on. Anyways here are my reasons I went with Tivax:

1. Metal case with vents - nice substantial unit.

2. Understand heat producing processor chip has heat sink - others don't

3. Nice remote has buttons well arranged and easy to memorize - I have had my share of remotes where all buttons are identical and you are always turning on a light just to change channel, ect.

4. Like the fact you can change channels on box without remote.

5. Menu system is nicer than most and EPG seems to go about 6 hrs into the future but this seems to vary by station.

Very happy with Tivax so far.

Looking for a Smart Antenna that will work with The TIVAX STB-T9? I seem to not find Smart Antennas on the Web! Has anyone purchased this item and how well did it work?

Received 2 Tivax stb-t9 today. They were easy to setup. I am able to pick up all the ATSC channels my Olevia 32" HDTV gets which is 2 channels that my Hauppage Win-tv HVR1600 can't detect. Picture quality is good so far on all channels - surprising since our rooftop antenna is 1970's vintage and needs replacing And we are about 60 miles from the broadcast towers.
I'm glad you guys are here and let me know about the Tivax as previously I had read reviews that pointed to the Magnavox as the best CECB at least the most sensitive tuner. My Brother in law got his coupons first, so he picked up Magnavox units locally. When my coupons arrived, the local stores were sold out of the CECB's so I stated to look into other options online...

Read about the heat issues on some CECB's and a visit to my brother in law's confirmed the pretty much unvented and all plastic Magnavox was too hot to put your hand on. Anyways here are my reasons I went with Tivax:

1. Metal case with vents - nice substantial unit.

2. Understand heat producing processor chip has heat sink - others don't

3. Nice remote has buttons well arranged and easy to memorize - I have had my share of remotes where all buttons are identical and you are always turning on a light just to change channel, ect.

4. Like the fact you can change channels on box without remote.

5. Menu system is nicer than most and EPG seems to go about 6 hrs into the future but this seems to vary by station.

Very happy with Tivax so far.

agreed with you on some points. Very solid box for the short time i have had it(3 days). I have had the epg extend ahead as far as 11 1/2 hours, but again like you stated it varies from channel to channel. Sensitivity in my case is very very good. ALthough it was latel last night(about 1130pm) i was pulling in cleveland ohio stations and I live south of toledo. Can even see ft wayne stations as well. Using a small yagi style ratshack antenna with a channel master spartan series amp. Overall very pleased with this TivaX. Now to get these stations to run one of their side channels with nothing but good classic comedy stuff like Bob Hope movies, Laurel and Hardy, 3 Stooges etc etc. A retro channel as a side channel would be excellent from the norm.

Looking for a Smart Antenna that will work with The TIVAX STB-T9? I seem to not find Smart Antennas on the Web! Has anyone purchased this item and how well did it work?
Thus far, the DTA5000 is the only available Smart Antenna:
http://www.summitsource.com/dx-antenna-dta5000-tv-smart-antenna-multidirectional-hdtv-digital-uhf-vhf-outdoor-offair-high-definition-local-hd-sylvania-television-reception-aerial-green-zone-part-dta5000-p-6320.html

It is mostly unknown when other companies will release
their new Smart Antennas:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13721144&#post13721144

For those of you still digging on the serial port stuff, I ordered my Tivax this morning. I should have it by Friday, and then we'll have two folks pushing them on the serial port.

It recognizes the command "set" just fine, I just can't seem to get the correct syntax. I've been using commands like "set SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0". It always comes back with a syntax error.

I think "set" is not the command we're looking for to change those values.

ZMon>set SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0
Syntax error: bad integer
ZMon>option SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0
Invalid command. Try "help"
ZMon>override SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0
Invalid command. Try "help"
ZMon>set 0 SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE
Syntax error: bad integer

ZMon>set
Try a index between 1 & 419
ZMon>help set
to set current val at particular index type set <index> <value>

What if it's expecting something like set SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0001
like a 4-byte integer, or binary?

What if it's expecting something like set SUPPORT_NEC_REMOTE 0001
like a 4-byte integer, or binary?
That is highly doubtful.

I would try set ... true/fale or TRUE/FALSE or T/F or something along those lines.
They could have also disabled entering anything, unless you enable maintance mode.

I should get one of these to play around with...

the set modifies the values as seen with view. I don't think we have found a way to modify the options yet.

That is highly doubtful.

I would try set ... true/fale or TRUE/FALSE or T/F or something along those lines.
They could have also disabled entering anything, unless you enable maintance mode.

I should get one of these to play around with...
I suspect that it is running some sort of batch file and the names you see displayed are constants defined in the batch file. So you would need to be able to see the beginning of the batch file to see what the constant definitions are. Otherwise you would have to try random numbers and then see what happens, but this would not be a particularly easy, fast, or "safe" method. I wonder if there is a way to do a directory command and see what files are stored or to view these files?

I suspect that it is running some sort of batch file and the names you see displayed are constants defined in the batch file. So you would need to be able to see the beginning of the batch file to see what the constant definitions are. Otherwise you would have to try random numbers and then see what happens, but this would not be a particularly easy, fast, or "safe" method. I wonder if there is a way to do a directory command and see what files are stored or to view these files?
I doubt that also.
If anything, it is just a big lookup table.
As for plugging in numbers, it wouldn't be that bad, get the default dump, try changing something, and get another dump, and see what has changed.

I still feel you must enter debug mode to do anything, but I don't think anyone knows how to do this yet.

Didja try equal sign??? [set AAAA=b]

another guess try 1 for on or true
0 for off or false.


or maybe someone could hook with one of those zoran reference
kits :P

another guess try 1 for on or true
0 for off or false.


or maybe someone could hook with one of those zoran reference
kits :P

I think rrrrrrobert had it right; I'd try SET 1 0. (I think that'll set the volume to zero.) If that's accepted then at least we know the syntax and we could use pixelation's file (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13892883#post13892883) to figure out what numbers correspond to the "interesting" options.

What type of cable are you using to interface between the boxes? I was thinking of making one (I have all the spare parts), but I didn't know what I should use for the pinout.

What type of cable are you using to interface between the boxes? I was thinking of making one (I have all the spare parts), but I didn't know what I should use for the pinout.

You would just need two female 9-pin sub-d connectors and a 3-wire cable. The pinout is:

2 --> 3
3 --> 2
5 --> 5

a.k.a. null modem cable. They used to be widely available.

I picked 2 parameters to play with.

Index 17, AspectRatio
Index 412, BlackBarDetect

The AspectRatio does not change until I flip the channel. But it does change.

BlackBarDetect does not do anything. Does anyone had any ideas what it does?

BTW, I think just the ability to send remote codes using serial link would open a lot of possibilities.

Does this one increase/decrease as you change the volume with the remote?
- You know run the command then increase volume and rerun the command -

Index..Name....Default..Minimum..Maximum..User/System
1.......Volume.....32..........0............63..........User ......I wonder if it is also sending the remote code x-times to increase/decrease the volume?

That or can you change the Minimum and Maximum volume?

Yes - I agree the ability to send remote codes using the serial link could open the possibility of using some scripting like AutoIt or VB to write a script to access the box and record a program on your computer Automated or you could use your computer to access the box becoming the event timer and program your VCR to record in sync like you would with the DTVPal.

One thing about the view output is that it does not seem to contain the "current" value. The Default value does not change.

After all you said when you power cycle nothing gets saved so nothing is getting saved running these set commands to change the view command.

Were you able to control to volume however?
How about exceeding the maximum of 63?

So far it looks like unless a way is found out to save the set command to memory that it is only going to affect the converter until a power cycle.

It looks like for now this is good for sending send remote codes for now but that could change.

Thanks pixelation

I'm glad everyone is having fun hacking the firmware via the RS-232 port, but back to basics for a bit...

Though this box is undoubtedly worth the 18 bucks PP I paid for it (after coupon), like almost every electronic item from China (where apparently engineering and attention to detail don't seem to be a priority), I've observed a number of flaws in the design:

1) The aforementioned zoom issue is a little more complicated than previously stated. If "zoom" is selected on an HD subchannel, it does the right thing. If "zoom" is selected on an SD subchannel, it either: a) has no effect at all if the SD mode is 528x480i or 640x480i (which is the desired effect and would be wonderful if not for b), or b) stretches the picture horizontally (off the screen at the ends) but not vertically (a purely nonsensical effect) if the SD mode is 704x480i; SD subchannels in 704x480i seem to far outnumber the others, but here in Philly there are some of both (for example 10.2, WCAU's weather channel, is unmodified by "zoom", as are all the WPPX/ION 61.*).

2) On my unit, at least, the NTSC video output leans toward the left at the upper right hand side. Normally, you wouldn't notice this on an SD channel, or on an HD channel showing widescreen content. But on an HD channel showing 4:3 content (or on telecasts with some vertical object or a vertical edge on the right side of the screen) the lean very obvious, as it is when displaying the menu; it's as if the upper NTSC scan lines are shorter and more compressed than the lower ones - some kind of analog distortion. No, it's not my set... I've tried it on several. May be a sample defect, or may be intrinsic to the design.

3) One OTA channel in the NJ/Philly area scans in with the wrong subchannel number (WMCN-DT, which PSIPs as 44.1 on any normal DTV, comes up as 44.3 on the Tivax, with no 44.1 or 44.2 at all.) Fortunately, this station shows automobile advertisements all day long, and is virtually worthless anyway.

4) After a power failure, the unit DOES remember what channel it was last tuned to. BUT, if it was in the "standby" state prior to the power failure, it comes up in "on" state after power is restored. That is, it can remember the last channel, but not whether it was on or off!

5) The "standby" and "mute" buttons on the remote are positionally reversed compared to virtually every other (i.e. Japanese) remote. Power is almost always the upper right button on a remote, and if colored, almost always (for whatever reason) green; on the Tivax green-top-right is mute. Bizarre.

6) The overscan in all aspect ratios is excessive, chopping off useful portions of program material, like the tops of heads and scrolling news at the bottom of 4:3 and zoomed 16:9 pictures- much more so than any typical NTSC tuner.

7) This unit's tolerance of varying multipath (i.e. trees blowing in the wind) is rather mediocre. I think a lot of folks who buy CECBs are going to be pulling their hair out because of this issue, which is by far the most significant problem with ATSC reception in the suburbs.

So like most Chinese stuff, decently manufactured but poorly engineered and/or tested. My $.02.

I'm glad to hear someone talk about overscan. I personally detest it. It's one of the reasons I didn't like the Digital Stream box as well as my Tivax LX1000. They both cut off a fair part of the screen. I have my TV set for basically 0% overscan and don't like a tuner cutting off things. As far as overscan my Zenith CECB cuts off the least. Still a little bit but the best I've seen.
I setup the DS box for my inlaws who had a el cheapo Funia tube set which already had a ton of overscan. After hooking up the DS box they couldn't even see the station bugs, it was off the viewable part of the screen. I guess overscan of the converter boxes add to the overscan of your TV.:(

So my Tivax arrived today - Will begin testing probably tomorrow, maybe tonight.

Is there a way to manually tune to RF stations the way the DTX9900 does? I didn't find one.

So my Tivax arrived today - Will begin testing probably tomorrow, maybe tonight.

Is there a way to manually tune to RF stations the way the DTX9900 does? I didn't find one.


How to tune the Tivax STB-T9 manually:

Find the "REAL" channel number from someplace like tvfool.com. NOT the virtual channel number.

Punch in the "REAL" channel number in the keypad on the remote.

That's all you have to do!

P.S. Let us know how the DTX9900 compares to the Tivax on RF sensitivity.

As for sensitivity, I think it's noticeably higher. There is a channel on RF 32 in my area, WQPX-64 (actual 64; RF 32). I can get 2-4 % on the DTX9900 when looking at it with my current antenna, but it's rare (bigger and higher would get it to me I'm sure).

The autoscan skips it on the DTX9900 because of how weak it is, but the auto on the Tivax sits on it and chews and chews for 10~15 seconds before giving up - it's trying like all get out to pull a good lock, but just can't do it to it's liking.

How to tune the Tivax STB-T9 manually:

Find the "REAL" channel number from someplace like tvfool.com. NOT the virtual channel number.

Punch in the "REAL" channel number in the keypad on the remote.

That's all you have to do!That's all you have to do now, but what happens if it's after 2009-02-17 and another channel, already scanned and known to your STB-T9, uses that same channel number as its virtual channel?  (There will be many cases like that after the transition.)  Your instructions will tune it to the virtual channel of the known station.

The three boxes I've hand my hands on all have a way to get to a given RF channel even if some other station is using it as its virtual channel.

Has anyone figured out yet if the serial port can be used to change channels (in my case, for use with a Series2 TiVo)? If I can identify a converter box that can communicate via serial port, then I won't have to mess around with the IR blasters.

You can change channels using serial port (see my post 1 page back) but the format is custom to the Tivax. You will need some sort of a PC to translate the commands from TiVo (usually for satelite or cable box) into Tivax's remote command.

If you use a PC to translate the commands, you can even get the zoom modes the way you wanted, customized by channel, even by time.

BTW, I poked around changing tvAspectRatio (set 18 0/1) but did not found anything. I don't think that parameter is being used. It would be cool if I can fix the poor aspect ratio defaults.

Thanks pixelation! I ordered the TIVAX STB-T9 today from Digitalstar.com. I can't wait to see if I can make the serial port work with my over the air TiVo Series2. Of course I could always use the (old fashioned) IR blasters, but that wouldn't be fun (or reliable, in my experience).

How does the quality of the STB-T9 EPG compare to these other Tivax models?

STB- ST-1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1028127)
LX-1000 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1030266)

Hah, I've just been wondering that myself Otaman. In fact, that's why I accessed this thread.

From jjeff's review of the LX comparing reception to the Zenith, it appears the LX is no better at reception than the T1, which I compare to the Insignia. In both cases, there is no comparison. The Tivax's are deaf and dumb compared to the LG boxes. They're just not in the same league. I'm figuring the T1 just about has to be a 4th generation tuner... at best.

Have had 2 tivax cecb's installed for 2 weeks and thought I would let you know my experiences.

I have a OLD rooftop antenna, and no rotor, needs replacing.

Inside house is a old radio shack amplifier leads to a 4 way coax splitter.

Living room: olevia 32 atsc hdtv. also dell vostro 400 with hauppauge hvr-1600 tuner card as homebrew dvr.

Front room: tivax cecb feeding through a vhs vcr to a old rca 19" analog tv, all connections composite via coax.

Bed room: tivax cecb feeding through a vhs vcr to a sharp 32" analog tv, all connections composite via coax.

Situation before purchase of first hdtv device (the olevia) we are 60+ miles from all station towers and we only had good reception on 3 of 7 analog channels.

With olevia hdtv and same antenna and amplifier we now get all 7 stations with better quality and we also recieve 6 new side channels so great so far.

Dell homebrew dvr has been a disapointment, however as the hauppauge hvr-1600 tuner card really can't pull in these distant hdtv channels depending on weather and season can only pick up 2 stations and 2 side channels reliably.

Very happy the performance of the tivax cecb units they pull in all the channels the olevia hdtv does and allow us to timeshift via the vhs tapes.

In future I would like to make improvements to my antenna and maybe a more sensitive pc tuner card for mt dvr project, but for now the tivax boxes serve us very well.
:D

The Tivax box sounds more interesting than most of the others - heatsink, geeky rs-232, smart antenna, ez-update of channel list.
So I ordered one this morning from www.consumerelecgroup.com for $49 plus $6 shipping, less $40 coupon (just entered coupon info online). Their site has a video of this box, as well as the Artec. Wish it had s-video out! I couldn't find info on how far into the future the EPG goes. Can anyone report on that?

The EPG only shows now/next onscreen, but you can scroll into the future using the arrow keys. It all depends on your stations, I've had anywhere from 6 to 14 hours on my Tivax.

The EPG only shows now/next onscreen, but you can scroll into the future using the arrow keys. It all depends on your stations, I've had anywhere from 6 to 14 hours on my Tivax.Just to clarify how EPG works: There are 2 possibilities, PSIP and TVGOS.

All the current boxes that implement EPG use PSIP, in which the future program information is broadcast by the individual stations as part of the PSIP portion of their digital signal (PSIP carries other non-video things like station name, virtual channel, captioning, time, etc.) For these boxes, how much, little, or accurate the info is depends on how much effort the station put into it; some stations have no info at all, or even incorrect info... blame the station.

At least one future box, the Dish/Slingmedia/Echostar TR-40 will receive special digital information from CBS stations called TVGOS (TV Guide On Screen) from Gemstar. This guide provides exactly 8 days worth of info for all stations in your market, the current day plus 7 days into the future. The info is as accurate as it is in the printed TV Guide, for what that's worth. The TVGOS more closely resembles a cable company or TIVO guide - i.e. it is a grid. Other boxes that are reporting support for a 7/8 day EPG probably also license the Gemstar TVGOS capability.

Nobody has said what type of EPG the TR-40 DTVPal will have, only that it has EPG up to 7 days. Early on, people assumed it would be TVGOS because CNET in reviewing the TR-50 mentioned TVGuide. But we don't know for sure yet, unless you have special connections.

Nobody has said what type of EPG the TR-40 DTVPal will have, only that it has EPG up to 7 days. Early on, people assumed it would be TVGOS because CNET in reviewing the TR-50 mentioned TVGuide. But we don't know for sure yet, unless you have special connections.No special connections... it just seems as if Gemstar has no competition in this arena - i.e. there is no other company providing an OTA EPG. There are internet-based EPGs (such as Titan TV), but that would require that a box have a network connection or wireless, not something allowed for CECBs.

There is also a rumor (and I admit, that's all that it is) that the TR-40 will "pass along" the digital TVGOS information in analog form (i.e. on a VBI line) so that existing analog TVGOS equipped TVs and recorders won't become obsolete overnight.

I agree we'll only know for sure in the next few weeks when the TR-40 DTVPal becomes available. What is clear is that the Tivax STB-T9 uses only the PSIP info and therefore it's guide info is at the mercy of the individual stations.

If you want a Tivax STB-T9 with analog pass-through, try the recently approved NTIA CECB Memorex MVCB1000. It is being offered on numerous websites, but is not yet in stock. ETA 2 weeks.
http://www.beachaudio.com/images/products/mvcb1000.jpg

the set modifies the values as seen with view. I don't think we have found a way to modify the options yet.

And you probably won't. My suspicion is that the config command dumps the configuration the program was compiled with and these cannot be set. They are informative, they tell you what flavor of the program you have (version + options = what you actually have).

These are probably equivalent to C language #defines or const. Thus, they probably equate to
#define SUPPORT_QAM 1
instead of
int SUPPORT_QAM=1
In the latter case, the value is stored in a variable in memory which you may be able to change in a number of ways. In the first, the constant is hard coded into the code wherever it is used and may also be used to exclude blocks of code from even being compiled. For QAM, for example the following blocks of code may never have been compiled:
- The frequency table for the QAM channels
- ZRmon commands related to QAM
- Menu options dealing with QAM
- Code to initialize QAM

Just recieved two of these units and would like to pass on my impression and thoughts on this unit. Nice sturdy metal case and plenty of vent holes in the case, which it needs cause it does run warm to touch. On screen menu is straight forwards and not too cluttered. Remote is sturdy and does not seem flimsy or give the impression that it will be fragile. The volume and channel up and down buttons are small for my hands but may be the right size for others. The remote has good range and works correctly. Performace is not as good as other units I have tried which cost more but it is not the worst either. Tuner did pick up a few channels that other recievers missed so I would have to give it high marks. Auto scanning on average takes 5 minutes and it does so with two scans. I only have one complaint and that is the manual scan is wortless if you have a yagi uhf antenna with a rotor. There is no way to manually add channels with this unit and when you auto scan it erases previous scans with no way to keep the previous channels in memory. So if you live between two cities like I do you have to choose which stations in which city you want to see or have two antennas combined together and pointed in the right directions. Channel change is crisp and with the previous button you can jump back n forth between two channels. The remote does have the - dash button for direct entry on the remote and you have the power button and channel change buttons on the front if the remote is not handy. I do not have a smart antenna so I can not check the operation of that feature which might impact the manual scan. The Rs232 port is available for upgrades/hacks when and if availble. In closing I would recommend this unit to anyone for the money, a sturdy vented metal case instead of a plastic case,smart antenna control if you need it, decent peformance and if you are a geek like me a Rs232 port that is just waiting to be explored and exploited.

I learned by accident that you can manual add channels. You can RF-tune if you just punch the number without a subchannel, and after it locks on, it'll show up in the add/remove channels list - just set it to viewable.

I did this with mine. Unplugged all antennas and autoscanned so that it found nothing. I then typed "4 9 OK." Plugged in an antenna, and poof! Up came WNEP-16, and it's two subchannels. For me (Wilkes-Barre/Scranton PA reception), 16 digital is on RF 49. So, it definitely RF tuned, and picked it up.

Thanks for the Memorex info. Can't find any specs on this online. And looks like it will be more than 3 times as expensive after the coupon ($30 or more versus $9). Of course that might be worth it for someone who wanted pass-thru. I haven't seen whether pass-thru has a "cost" - lower signal strength because of the internal switching.

Was mentioned before but important and worth repeating:
leave the tivax volume at maximum and adjust your tv volume with the tv remote ONLY. If you are like me and use a vcr to timeshift the tivax lowers the volume level on your tape recording so low you have to crank your tv volume to hear the audio part of the tape and when you stop the tape - watch out cause it it really loud! leaving the tivax volume max works much better and also you don't get the annoying hum and static thru the audio.:D

I learned by accident that you can manual add channels. You can RF-tune if you just punch the number without a subchannel, and after it locks on, it'll show up in the add/remove channels list - just set it to viewable.

I did this with mine. Unplugged all antennas and autoscanned so that it found nothing. I then typed "4 9 OK." Plugged in an antenna, and poof! Up came WNEP-16, and it's two subchannels. For me (Wilkes-Barre/Scranton PA reception), 16 digital is on RF 49. So, it definitely RF tuned, and picked it up.That method is fine for the next eight months and change, but it won't work if the RF channel of the station you want to add is the same as the virtual channel of a station already in memory.  There will be cases like that in many areas after 2009-02-17.

If that is the case, can you do a full rescan and then manually add the missing channels? Could there be a station broadcasting a virtual channel that is used by a different station at the same time?

Could there be a station broadcasting a virtual channel that is used by a different station at the same time?

No, not in the same local broadcast area. Real channel and virtual channel number will always be a unique pair in the same local broadcast area.

Could there be a station broadcasting a virtual channel that is used by a different station at the same time?No two stations in the same market can share the same virtual channel, but after 2009-02-17 it will be possible (and not that rare) for one station's physical channel to be the same as another station's virtual channel.

If your TV/Monitor can remember the channel or video input to which it was tuned prior to power cutoff, and return to that channel or video input after power is restored (and assuming that it also can remember that it was on, and come back turned on when power is restored), you can build an add-on to your Tivax STB-T9 that will eliminate the need to keep the TV's remote around just to turn it on and off. With this add-on, changing the box from standby to on, and later back to standby, will also turn on and off the connected TV. As an added benefit, you'll waste less power because the TV will be completely powered down instead of just in standby watching for a signal from its remote.

This project relies on the presence of a switched 12 volt DC supply and ground on two pins of the 6-pin "Smart Antenna" connector. You'll need to connect the project to the Tivax box with a 6-conductor RJ-12 modular cord (e.g. Radio Shack #279-422), and you'll need to modify the RJ-12 plug slightly to get it to fit the jack; this involves lightly filing the right side of the plug's locking tab (tab facing up) until the tab just clears the offset slot on the Tivax connector. If you take your time and do this carefully, the plug will seat all the way in and fit snugly. You must use a 6-conductor cord, not one with only 2 or 4 conductors as is common among RJ-11 telephone cords.

Pin 1 (the rightmost pin) is ground and pin 2 (the next pin to the left) is the switched 12V. The project otherwise requires only a relay (Radio Shack #275-248 or similar - I chose this one because it can handle 10A@120VAC while only requiring 30ma. from the Tivax unit, which it seems to have no trouble supplying), a standard 2-prong AC power plug, a standard 2-prong AC power socket, wire and solder to put it all together, and some way to safely house the project.

Connect the wire from pin 1 of the modified RJ-12 plug to one of the relay's "coil" contacts, and the wire from pin 2 of the modified RJ-12 plug to the other of the relay's "coil" contacts. Connect the neutral (wider) AC plug blade directly to the neutral (wider) AC socket blade. Connect the hot (narrower) AC plug blade to the relay's normally open (NO) contact. Connect the hot (narrower) AC socket blade to the relay's common (COM) contact. You're done. Plug the modified RJ-12 plug into the Tivax "Smart Antenna" connector. Plug your TV/Monitor into the AC power socket, and plug the AC power plug into the wall. When you turn on the Tivax box, the 12V power actuates the relay and switches on your TV; when you turn off the Tivax box (put it in standby), several seconds later the 12V power disappears, the relay opens, and the TV turns off.

The challange, should you choose to attempt this, is to build this neatly and safely. Recall that you are fooling around with AC line voltage (120VAC) that could injure or kill someone or start a fire if this project is constructed sloppily; and that the 12 volt control voltage from the Tivax box must not be short circuited nor ever allowed to contact the high voltage portions of this circuit. Also beware that if you plan to use the plugs on both ends of the 6-conductor modular cord, these are sometimes wired in a criss-cross fashion such that pins 1 and 2 on one plug end up on pins 6 and 5 at the plug on the other end of the cord; always ring out or trace the cable to see where Tivax-end pins 1 and 2 end up at the project end of the wire, preferrably using a meter to check for the switched DC voltage.

Because I hate fooling around with AC cords and outlets, I built mine into a defunct X10 appliance module, retaining only the built-in plug and outlet (both of which are very sturdy and well-made), snipping out all the remaining parts on the circuit board, then gluing the relay upside down on the board near where the X10 relay was removed. The resulting unit is shown in the attached photo (were it not for the RJ-12 jack on the side, it would look just like it originally did.) Obviously there are many other ways to approach this, the simplest being basically an extension cord with a plastic box (containing the relay) in the middle and the control cable also emerging from that box.

Good luck and happy soldering

UPDATE 6/25/2008 - See post #216 ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14160716#post14160716 ) for a potential simplification (untested, but based on the Tivax schematic) to interfacing with the Smart Antenna connector.

UPDATE 7/1/2008 - Also see post #216 for a recommendation to add a protective diode to the relay coil circuit.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=112580&d=1213054500

From one of the earlier post. It seems the Tivax can remember the channel it was on but cannot remember whether it was in standby or not. So after a power outage, it seems the TV will be turned on and remains that way.

IMHO, if you are willing to get an X10 power supply. You might as well attach both the Tivax and TV to the X10 p/s and use a X10 remote to power both of them up.

Just to clarify how EPG works: There are 2 possibilities, PSIP and TVGOS.

All the current boxes that implement EPG use PSIP, in which the future program information is broadcast by the individual stations as part of the PSIP portion of their digital signal (PSIP carries other non-video things like station name, virtual channel, captioning, time, etc.) For these boxes, how much, little, or accurate the info is depends on how much effort the station put into it; some stations have no info at all, or even incorrect info... blame the station.

At least one future box, the Dish/Slingmedia/Echostar TR-40 will receive special digital information from CBS stations called TVGOS (TV Guide On Screen) from Gemstar. This guide provides exactly 8 days worth of info for all stations in your market, the current day plus 7 days into the future. The info is as accurate as it is in the printed TV Guide, for what that's worth. The TVGOS more closely resembles a cable company or TIVO guide - i.e. it is a grid. Other boxes that are reporting support for a 7/8 day EPG probably also license the Gemstar TVGOS capability.

As you may know by now, this info on the DTVPal is not current...i.e., it does use PSIP, so it depends on the individual stations' side data, like most other boxes. It remains to be seen how far in the future the DTVPal will acquire data, i.e., the original version - the TR-40 - advertised up to 7 days (which is part of the reason that many of us thought it would use the TV Guide system) but the newly advertised specs on the DTVPal don't mention any time period...:(

IMHO, if you are willing to get an X10 power supply. You might as well attach both the Tivax and TV to the X10 p/s and use a X10 remote to power both of them up.That would still require 2 remotes, one to turn on/off, and one for everything else - no net advantage (even in power consumption, since an X10 module itself uses standby power.) The X10 module I used the case of was otherwise dead and useless, which is why I gutted it.

From one of the earlier post. It seems the Tivax can remember the channel it was on but cannot remember whether it was in standby or not. So after a power outage, it seems the TV will be turned on and remains that way.Not quite - all CECBs are required by default to go into standby after 4 hours, so after a power outage, the box (and the set, if controlled by the box) will come on for 4 hours and then turn off. It would have made more sense if they had designed the STB-T9 to remember whether it was in standby or not, and return to that same mode after a power failure... but they did not, so the 4 hour limit is its salvation. If you disable the 4 hour limit (which you might do if the box is connected to a VCR, DVR, or DVD recorder), you sacrifice this energy saving feature, but you can still leave the TV turned off in this case.

The Memorex MVCB1000 with analog pass-through clone of the Tivax STB-T9 may now be available at your local Rite Aid Drug Store for $59.99. I just got this ad today in a Rite Aid circular enclosed with my local newspaper showing the Memorex box.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=112608&stc=1&d=1213083140

That would still require 2 remotes, one to turn on/off, and one for everything else - no net advantage (even in power consumption, since an X10 module itself uses standby power.) The X10 module I used the case of was otherwise dead and useless, which is why I gutted it.

Actually, the X10 module is just used for the case. There is no power used in the relay when powered down. You are only using .4 watts more for the relay when the unit is on. With really old TV's, mechanical on / off and tuners, this project would make the TV turn on and off with the Tivax. Notice this would work with most units with smart antenna's on them. This would also work well for TV's that remembered their last power state when power is returned.

I don't think this was discussed before. It appears that the captions output from the Tivax is very poor. At least on a CRT 408i set.

Unlike its menu which has very solid font, even the largest caption font appears hard to read. I don't know what caused it but I would think that it has something to do with interlacing. It appears the caption is not properly de-interlaced by my Sony TV and I see a flickering caption at all times.

I don't think this was discussed before. It appears that the captions output from the Tivax is very poor. At least on a CRT 408i set.

Unlike its menu which has very solid font, even the largest caption font appears hard to read. I don't know what caused it but I would think that it has something to do with interlacing. It appears the caption is not properly de-interlaced by my Sony TV and I see a flickering caption at all times.I agree the fonts are bad, but if your Sony TV provides closed captions, don't even bother with the Tivax captions, turn them off and turn on the TV's closed captions. All CECBs are required to pass along digital captions to the NTSC output in analog form (i.e. as VBI data.) The only reason to EVER use the Tivax captions is when connected to either an old TV set or an inexpensive TV set, neither of which is likely to have its own closed caption capability.

Is it required that CECB convert digital captions into analog? I thought it was just the program also comes with analog caption? I kind of like the ability to have captions in translucent background. Hate it see it disabled.

Is it required that CECB convert digital captions into analog? I thought it was just the program also comes with analog caption? I kind of like the ability to have captions in translucent background. Hate it see it disabled.

Closed Captioning: A converter box is required to pass all closed captioning information included in the digital signal through to the analog TV for decoding by the TVs built-in decoder. Some CECBs also have an internal digital CC decoder, which allows for changes in font and text size.

check the thread in this forum

Evaluating Digital to Analog Converter Boxes for Users of Captioning

EIA/CEA-909 interface was designed to SEARCH up to 16 compass headings.
I doubt any of the Smart Antenna implementations would be able to "re-search"
directions while you are watching something without causing significant interruptions.


The EIA/CEA-909 standard is pretty limited, even clunky, at least the first version. But it allows the antenna to be smarter than the protocol.

It sends 14 bits to the antenna:
The last 7 bits are channel number
The first 2 or 4 bits can be used for direction
The 5th bit can be used for polarization
The 6th and 7th bits can be used for gain setting.
However, the use of the first 7 bits is flexible. You could use them for 128 different directions. These bits can also be used to select different fixed direction antennas. The receiver is supposed to have two modes:
one that lets you manually enter the code to be sent and one that automatically tries all 128 permutations and picks the one with the best signal strength/quality.

For mechanical rotators (or more sophisticated devices), the idea seems to be that you connect the smart antenna interface to the rotor control box which also has manual controls. You can then manually set the direction for each channel and since the smart antenna interface tells it which channel the TV is tuned to, it can remember the direction that was last used or explicitly set for that channel. Also, since it knows the frequency, it can hunt for, or track, the best signal on that frequency while you are receiving if it wants to using a duplicate tuner. A mechanical rotor would only be able to find a new peak near the current peak. It wouldn't be able to detect that the best signal is 90 degrees away from the old direction and involves a bounce of a moving van without risking dropping the signal too low.

An expensive active antenna could synthesize two directional outputs and send one to the TV while doing full sweeps on the second one using its own tuner and the smart antenna interface provided physical channel number (2-69).

There is some provision for the TV and the antenna to negotiate a more sophisticated protocol but that would require the TV to have a more intimate knowledge of the class of antenna used in order to know what to send using the new protocol, which is probably why the GE antenna only works with the GE box. In general, I would expect sophisticated devices to simply ignore anything the TV tells it to do and simply take advantage of the fact that the TV tells the antenna what the TV is doing.

Talking to an indoor antenna controller and not directly to an outdoor antenna has another advantage: the smart antenna interface was designed without the slightest consideration for lightning.

So far, however, smart antennas are only slightly less mythological than unicorns. There are only a few on the market and no rotor controllers or antenna switches with smart antenna interface that I can see.

jeez did you guys take apart your children like this when they were born. it a decoder box, no secert micro film in side....

How would you know, unless you took it apart? The box is loaded with secrets. Stuff that should have been documented. Companies don't realize that when they withhold technical documentation they hurt their customers more than their competitors. Compared to the other CECBs, this box is unusual in that the schematics are available from the FCC.

Most gadgets that come in are subjected to a ritual known as "voiding the warranty".

As for the children, if I had one of those I would just do a CAT scan. And yes, I have the data from my CAT scan here on my computer.

[QUOTE=jimboy;13783382][QUOTE=satpro;13783338]

Even if the Tivax have separate zoom settings for HD and SD broadcast. Your mom still won't be happy because the Zoom function may work for one program but not the other. Not all programs are broadcasted in letter box. Your mom will have to use the zoom button eventually.

Some movies even switch formats during the show, like switching between full and letterbox.

To some extent, the box can be programmed to autodetect this. The box knows what resolution is being broadcast. If there is brightness in the center portion of the screen (i.e. not in a fade to black), the box can measure the size of the black borders. It can also compare those measurements to standard broadcast configurations and check for symetry, and do time averaging to deal with odd frames. Some things like a channel bug in the lower right corner of a 16:9 frame containing a 4:3 picture would confuse things but this could optionally be programmed around. But the box could be configured to autozoom after a few seconds to fill the screen with the maximum amount of usable image without cutting anything off. There would be an annoying jump or gradual zoom. Some content would be tricky, like a movie that has a closeup of a screen with everything totally black around it or an illuminated ball bouncing around the screen. A clear edge between black bar and content on all four sides is a pretty good indication that you don't have weird content, though a computer screen image where border fades in (room lights turned on) would be an exception. You could also have an asymmetric window detector that rapidly enlarged the "used" window when their was content outside and slowly shrank it when there was unused area. Would probably work well most of the time and you hit the zoom button when it doesn't. Might be a little sluggish restoring frame after a commercial. Some people would like it some wouldn't. Kinda like automatic transmissions.

If programs are broadcast in their native aspect ratios it is much easier.

A question here as well(you might even classify it as a hypothetical question). All CECB boxes start out as full featured chips right? Then they are "dumbed down" to meet FCC rules on CECB boxes? Is this correct?

Not really. Many, perhaps most, are based on chips that were apparently designed more or less for CECB and/or standard definition TV applications. It is hard to tell since it is hard to get data on the chips. These chips themselves may be somewhat dumbed down versions of other chips made by the manufacturer with some enhancements. The manufacturer often appears to provide a reference implementation of the software (and also the hardware) that at least illustrates basic operation of all features but may provide a limited user interface as their focus is on making a working chip. The idea may be that the manufacturer is supposed to customize and extend or even replace this user interface. Some vendors, however, may simply replace the name and logo and ship it.

The zoran Super741 chips used in the Tivax are supplied with reference software and hardware (the hardware design, however, is not merely duplicated). This includes 32MB of RAM, the leftover portion of which might store a week of program guide data (and might be intended for such). But if the reference software just had a now/next EPG, guess what you are likely to get?

The reference hardware may include extra stuff to simplify development and high quality parts to show off the chip and isn't really designed for mass production or packaging and is made in low volume at a high price per board. The box manufacturer may take that design and have a junior engineer or even a good technician half copy it, half mutilate it, leaving off what they can and replacing circuits with cheaper parts. The RS-232 port on the Tivax and similar models is probably vestigial, in that it was on the development board and may have been included on the new board design for in house testing of the prototype and then wasn't left off on the production units. It doesn't really appear that they intend to use it for field software upgrades (though they may be hedging their bets against bugs but many users won't have a computer). For in house board testing, software download, repair, etc. they could just use JTAG though the serial monitor may help for some tests. It looks like the person who redesigned the board just focused on one circuit at a time and didn't think about sharing components between circuits with results that can be comical in places.

One big difference between the chips used for CECBs and for high end tuners is the ability to output more than 480i. This lets a lot of shortcuts be taken. The chip used on the tivax supports component output and S-video but there are no connectors and amplifiers for this on the board. It doesn't support DVI. If the chip had been a QFP and not a BGA, it might have been possible to kludge together a component output but unused BGA pins tend to be buried under the chip where you can't get to them.

Tivax vs reference hardware differences:
- fewer buttons
- no SVGA
- no component/RGB output
- no ATSC baseband input
- combined tuner/modulator
They made one critical mistake and that was not putting in pads and 4 traces for an s-video connector (the amp is already there). This was probably due to confusion about whether the government allowed s-video. Then they would have been able to swap in a DTT76852 tuner module (the connected the passthru control line) or possibly an LG TDVG-H151G and an s-video connector and had a box that had all three major I/O characteristics (s-video, passtrhu, and smart antenna) in the feature matrices.

[QUOTE=pixelation;13799339][QUOTE=jimboy;13783382]

Some movies even switch formats during the show, like switching between full and letterbox.

To some extent, the box can be programmed to autodetect this. The box knows what resolution is being broadcast. If there is brightness in the center portion of the screen (i.e. not in a fade to black), the box can measure the size of the black borders. It can also compare those measurements to standard broadcast configurations and check for symetry, and do time averaging to deal with odd frames. Some things like a channel bug in the lower right corner of a 16:9 frame containing a 4:3 picture would confuse things but this could optionally be programmed around. But the box could be configured to autozoom after a few seconds to fill the screen with the maximum amount of usable image without cutting anything off. There would be an annoying jump or gradual zoom. Some content would be tricky, like a movie that has a closeup of a screen with everything totally black around it or an illuminated ball bouncing around the screen. A clear edge between black bar and content on all four sides is a pretty good indication that you don't have weird content, though a computer screen image where border fades in (room lights turned on) would be an exception. You could also have an asymmetric window detector that rapidly enlarged the "used" window when their was content outside and slowly shrank it when there was unused area. Would probably work well most of the time and you hit the zoom button when it doesn't. Might be a little sluggish restoring frame after a commercial. Some people would like it some wouldn't. Kinda like automatic transmissions.

If programs are broadcast in their native aspect ratios it is much easier.
That's a nice science project.

Instead, just use the Active Format Description system, where content is tagged with its aspect ratio and other data. The system is described in the SMPTE 2016 family of standards.

So far, however, smart antennas are only slightly less mythological than unicorns. :) Well said!

[QUOTE=pixelation;13799339][QUOTE=jimboy;13783382]

Some movies even switch formats during the show, like switching between full and letterbox.

To some extent, the box can be programmed to autodetect this. The box knows what resolution is being broadcast. If there is brightness in the center portion of the screen (i.e. not in a fade to black), the box can measure the size of the black borders. It can also compare those measurements to standard broadcast configurations and check for symetry, and do time averaging to deal with odd frames. Some things like a channel bug in the lower right corner of a 16:9 frame containing a 4:3 picture would confuse things but this could optionally be programmed around. But the box could be configured to autozoom after a few seconds to fill the screen with the maximum amount of usable image without cutting anything off. There would be an annoying jump or gradual zoom. Some content would be tricky, like a movie that has a closeup of a screen with everything totally black around it or an illuminated ball bouncing around the screen. A clear edge between black bar and content on all four sides is a pretty good indication that you don't have weird content, though a computer screen image where border fades in (room lights turned on) would be an exception. You could also have an asymmetric window detector that rapidly enlarged the "used" window when their was content outside and slowly shrank it when there was unused area. Would probably work well most of the time and you hit the zoom button when it doesn't. Might be a little sluggish restoring frame after a commercial. Some people would like it some wouldn't. Kinda like automatic transmissions.

If programs are broadcast in their native aspect ratios it is much easier.

In fact, there is a variable for the Tivax called "BlackBarDetect". Unfortunately, it isn't doing anything.

1) The aforementioned zoom issue is a little more complicated than previously stated. If "zoom" is selected on an HD subchannel, it does the right thing. If "zoom" is selected on an SD subchannel, it either: a) has no effect at all if the SD mode is 528x480i or 640x480i (which is the desired effect and would be wonderful if not for b), or b) stretches the picture horizontally (off the screen at the ends) but not vertically (a purely nonsensical effect) if the SD mode is 704x480i; SD subchannels in 704x480i seem to far outnumber the others, but here in Philly there are some of both (for example 10.2, WCAU's weather channel, is unmodified by "zoom", as are all the WPPX/ION 61.*).


Not nonsensical, actually. The weird stretched mode is probably anamorphic. It is intended for a 16:9 picture transmitted shrunk horizontally which is how some widescreen stuff works, including in standard def.


2) On my unit, at least, the NTSC video output leans toward the left at the upper right hand side. Normally, you wouldn't notice this on an SD channel, or on an HD channel showing widescreen content. But on an HD channel showing 4:3 content (or on telecasts with some vertical object or a vertical edge on the right side of the screen) the lean very obvious, as it is when displaying the menu; it's as if the upper NTSC scan lines are shorter and more compressed than the lower ones - some kind of analog distortion. No, it's not my set... I've tried it on several. May be a sample defect, or may be intrinsic to the design.


That sounds like a classic TV problem. Top lines leaning have to do with the phase or frequency of the horizontal oscillator or sync separator issues. If the top left corner is ok but the top right corner is wrong, your horizontal oscillator probably isn't adjusting fast enough to the 180 degree phase shift in horizontal scan caused by interlacing. If you don't see it on other boxes, it may be because they underscan. Or your sync separator is sensitive to very subtle differences between the Tivax sync signal vs. others.

There is one other possible quirk in the Tivax. The schematic looks like there are two alternate amplifiers driving the video out U6 (FMS6143) and Q7 (2N3906). Neither is listed as do not populate so if both are actually populated pulling Q7 would be a good idea. There is also a 220uF capacitor (EC35) in series with the video out line. It is possible that the charge on that capacitor is reduced during the vertical blanking interval affecting the DC offset slightly. Your sync separator should be smart enough to adjust for the DC offset, which should be but some drift could be exciting the bugs in your TV.


3) One OTA channel in the NJ/Philly area scans in with the wrong subchannel number (WMCN-DT, which PSIPs as 44.1 on any normal DTV, comes up as 44.3 on the Tivax, with no 44.1 or 44.2 at all.) Fortunately, this station shows automobile advertisements all day long, and is virtually worthless anyway.


Maybe the Tivax is looking at the position in the PSIP terrestrial virtual channel table (TVCT) rather than the minor_channel_number stored there and the TV station is formatting the table in an unusual fashion or transmitting some audio only channels.

You may see this bug on other Zoran boxes not made by Shenzhen MTC since this sounds like it could be a bug in the reference software.


4) After a power failure, the unit DOES remember what channel it was last tuned to. BUT, if it was in the "standby" state prior to the power failure, it comes up in "on" state after power is restored. That is, it can remember the last channel, but not whether it was on or off!


The chip naturally powers on when it gets power. Then it reads the eeprom with the settings. It would then have to intentionally power itself off. Auto power up is actually something which should be configurable: on, off, or last state, but rarely is. Not powering up is probably worse than not powering up since if you have set the autooff timer it will power itself down in 4 hours and if you have disabled autooff you probably want the unit on for something like VCR recording. Thus, in the long run it is following your instructions.


5) The "standby" and "mute" buttons on the remote are positionally reversed compared to virtually every other (i.e. Japanese) remote. Power is almost always the upper right button on a remote, and if colored, almost always (for whatever reason) green; on the Tivax green-top-right is mute. Bizarre.


Not bizarre at all. I am surprised your remotes are that consistent. There aren't really any documented conventions for this. The Tivax is not a japanese box. I just looked at half a dozen remotes. Many had the power in the upper right, one had the upper left, a universal remote had the power button in the middle below the device buttons, and a TiVo remote had a TV power button in the upper left and the TiVo power in the upper middle. Colors varied.


6) The overscan in all aspect ratios is excessive, chopping off useful portions of program material, like the tops of heads and scrolling news at the bottom of 4:3 and zoomed 16:9 pictures- much more so than any typical NTSC tuner.


This is something that should be configurable. Absent that, you would expect them to stuff 480 lines of picture data into 480 scan lines.


7) This unit's tolerance of varying multipath (i.e. trees blowing in the wind) is rather mediocre. I think a lot of folks who buy CECBs are going to be pulling their hair out because of this issue, which is by far the most significant problem with ATSC reception in the suburbs.

So like most Chinese stuff, decently manufactured but poorly engineered and/or tested. My $.02.
[/QUOTE]
Assuming the variation in multipath was consistent when you tested the different converters, the multipath tolerance would be a function of the Zoran SoC/demodulator chip. Finding good chips when you are designing something is very hard. In some markets, such as this, it is even worse because you can't download a real datasheet. The LG chip may be better but LG still doesn't even have a web page for their chips on their miserable web site.

Receiver performance in different locations is going to depend on 1) weak signal sensitivity, 2) static multipath rejection, 3) dynamic multipath rejection, and 4) adjacent channel rejection, 5) strong signal desensitization, 6) noise burst rejection, and 7) co-channel rejection.

NTIA criteria for multipath were for static single echo only.

Where I live, there are lots of big trees.

Whitis, thanks for all in the info. The Tivax is the only box I have bought so far. It does seem to be well made. The EPG displays 4 lines of program content description (about 25 words), then truncates if the description is longer. Too bad no s-video, or alerts or search in the EPG.
Question: anyone know if the Tivax will work with the GE smart antenna (these are on the shelf at my local Target, while the GE and Venturer boxes are soldout)?
Question 2: what is the link to the schematic for the Tivax?

Question: anyone know if the Tivax will work with the GE smart antenna (these are on the shelf at my local Target, while the GE and Venturer boxes are soldout)?
Question 2: what is the link to the schematic for the Tivax?

Somewhere in these CECB threads someone said that the GE Smart
Antenna is marketing hype and not really a "smart antenna" at all.


Dunno.

Myabe check the GE threads?


John

Thanks Johnied. There is something fishy about the GE antenna. Here are claimed features from a dealer http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/GE_Smart_Digital_Antenna.html:

"Automatically seeks and locks the strongest DTV signal available
Developed exclusively for use with the GE Smart Digital Converter Box
Uses sonar technology to scan your area to find the best over-the-air DTV signal without any manual adjustments "

Sonar, hmmm. And apparently it is only works with the GE box, so it isn't _that_ smart.

In any case, I don't need one - local antennas are on same hill here, and I can see their lights as I point my Silver Sensor indoor antenna. All stations come in "100%" strength, according to the Tivax. But friends and kin are not in same situation, so I'll keep an eye out for compatible smart antennas to suggest to them if they get a Tivax box.

Thanks Johnied. There is something fishy about the GE antenna. Here are claimed features from a dealer http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/GE_Smart_Digital_Antenna.html:

"Automatically seeks and locks the strongest DTV signal available
Developed exclusively for use with the GE Smart Digital Converter Box
Uses sonar technology to scan your area to find the best over-the-air DTV signal without any manual adjustments "

Sonar, hmmm. And apparently it is only works with the GE box, so it isn't _that_ smart.

In any case, I don't need one - local antennas are on same hill here, and I can see their lights as I point my Silver Sensor indoor antenna. All stations come in "100%" strength, according to the Tivax. But friends and kin are not in same situation, so I'll keep an eye out for compatible smart antennas to suggest to them if they get a Tivax box.


So, you could use a "paper clip" and call it your smart antenna...

All right then. =P

John

Whitis, thanks for all in the info. The Tivax is the only box I have bought so far. It does seem to be well made. The EPG displays 4 lines of program content description(about 25 words), then truncates if the description is longer. Too bad no s-video, or alerts or search in the EPG.
Question: anyone know if the Tivax will work with the GE smart antenna (these are on the shelf at my local Target, while the GE and Venturer boxes are soldout)?
Question 2: what is the link to the schematic for the Tivax?
The GE "Smart Antenna" isn't expected to be available until mid Sept:
http://www.jascoproducts.com/hdtv/GE-Smart-Digital-Antenna.asp
"Sonar" analogy is pretty lame....unless you're Tom Clancy, who knows that
Sonar sensor arrays do beam-forming in order to search in multiple directions....
Sorta similar to Smart Antenna beam-forming in order to search in multiple directions....

=========================
The only GE (Digital) Antenna I found on www.target.com is the Quantum:
http://www.target.com/GE-HDTV-Quantum-Antenna-Silver/dp/B000W8XQJC/sr=1-1/qid=1213586283******sr_1_1/601-7212862-5975338?ie=UTF8&index=target&rh=k%3Age%20antenna&page=1
http://www.jascoproducts.com/hdtv/GE-Digital-Antennas.asp
http://www.jascoproducts.com/products/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=463
GE specs say it is an amplified antenna..."digital" means DTV compatible...
Target misunderstood "digital" to mean digital signal processor...oops....
No, it isn't compatible with EIA/CEA-909 Smart Antenna Interface Spec....

======================================
DTA-5000 remains the one-and-only available Smart Antenna.
GE (above) said they would have theirs ready by mid-Sept.
Terk said they wouldn't have theirs ready until early next year....

Last month, an RCA DTA-800 with Broadcom Smart Antenna (prototype)
were submitted to Peter Putnam for testing, but due to immediate
problems had to be returned:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/2TV_Converters.html

Receiver performance in different locations is going to depend on 1) weak signal sensitivity, 2) static multipath rejection, 3) dynamic multipath rejection, and 4) adjacent channel rejection, 5) strong signal desensitization, 6) noise burst rejection, and 7) co-channel rejection.

NTIA criteria for multipath were for static single echo only.

NTIA CECB test criteria DID include dynamic multipath as part of the
"Field Ensemble" requirements (item #14):
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_technical.htm

These are ACTUAL SIGNALS captured from fifty of the WORST locations.
Chapter 6 discusses the Field Ensemble test conditions and results for
numerous STBs and HDTVs tested in 2005:
http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/documents/reports/TR-05-1017-ATSC-reception-testing.pdf
More than half weren't even close to meeting CECB (2007) requirements.

FYI: Here is link to ATSC A/74:
http://www.atsc.org/standards/practices.html

Talk to Tivax today a new batch of STB-T9 are on the way and all he would say is they have analog pass-through.

Dave:)

Now that the newer Tivax's have analog pass through, can someone concentrate on hacking the RS-232 port to do something really useful, like changing channels and turning the unit on and off? By doing so, you could potentially hook it up to a computer and use the computer to act as a timer. (You might even be able to control it remotely with a modem.) That would be good because reviews so far indicate the Tivax gives a better picture than the DTVPal. Also, can Tivax upgrade the old units to include analog pass through?

Channel changing has already been done:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13892926#post13892926

I need to finish up building my serial cable before I can begin working on my Tivax.

[QUOTE=whitis;14066370]The chip naturally powers on when it gets power. Then it reads the eeprom with the settings. It would then have to intentionally power itself off. Auto power up is actually something which should be configurable: on, off, or last state, but rarely is. Not powering up is probably worse than not powering up since if you have set the autooff timer it will power itself down in 4 hours and if you have disabled autooff you probably want the unit on for something like VCR recording. Thus, in the long run it is following your instructions.


Actually, after a power loss, having the box always come on tuned to the last channel is better. That way, you could hook up a timer to the box and set the power to come on just before a show you want to record does. Your VCR timer could then kick in to record the show. Most shows don't last 4 hours so who cares if the box goes to standby after 4 hours.
You would only be able to record from one station when you are away. Obviously this solution is not as good as having a timer in the box that allows multiple settings, but it's better than having a VCR that's completely useless for recording when you cannot be there.

Talk to Tivax today a new batch of STB-T9 are on the way and all he would say is they have analog pass-through.

Dave:)You better wait for the NTIA to add the new Tivax with analog PassThru to the list of allowed boxes before buying.

They will just it down just like they did with MicroProse.

This is probably the one thing the NTIA has been keeping their eye on.

They have kept there other eye on there other major concern for multi-dwellings like seniors in retirement homes and those who try to apply for a coupon with only a zip code and are non-eligible.

Everything else doesn't seem to matter as much to them.

Myvirtualzone is selling the Alpha Digital for "free with coupon". Shipping was reasonable too. If it weren't for the complaints about the aspect ratio, I might have bought one.

Talk to Tivax today a new batch of STB-T9 are on the way and all he would say is they have analog pass-through.

Dave:)

how can you tell which is which if both have the same model number

Got my Tivax box last night. Opened the box up and the board is rev D the tuner number is the same. I will try and hookup tonight and see if it has a pass-through.

Dave

Ok the box is running and no pass-through. The box runs hot about 95 deg
on my infrared Thermometer.The picture is great but my old DTC-100 hd box
looks better.

Dave

I have a cable that's a female-female extension cable, but it doesn't seem to be talking PC <---> Tivax. I need to find myself a null modem cable, don't I?

Yes, you need null modem cable. Null model is not the same as extension cable although if you are willing to sacrifice, you can just strip the cable in the middle and swap 2 wires. The trick is to find out which wire is what.

It might be easier to use DB-9 to RJ-45 converters and hack a ethernet cable to do the job.

Tonight I removered the ZR39741 chip there are no external connections from pins 9 and 10 to enable S-Video from top or bottom of the circuit board.

how can you tell which is which if both have the same model number

I may be completely wrong about this. If so, someone shout me down.

Isn't the Memorex MVCB1000 the same as the Tivax except that the Memorex has pass through?

It does appear so, and you aren't the first person to say such; but we haven't had confirmation or denial in any official sense yet.


I finally got connected to mine! I think that after you use the SET command to change a value, you then have to use the WW command to "write registers" so that the change becomes effective.

Lots more testing to do, though!

Tonight I removered the ZR39741 chip there are no external connections from pins 9 and 10 to enable S-Video from top or bottom of the circuit board.

Check the Apex vs Zenith thread. It appears it is a Tivax clone, but has SVideo. I wonder if you compare the two boards we can see exactly what needs to be added to enable SVideo out of the Tivax

I finally got connected to mine! I think that after you use the SET command to change a value, you then have to use the WW command to "write registers" so that the change becomes effective.

Lots more testing to do, though!

Never thought of that. But I did tested with setting the Aspect Ratio and see that the ratio changed the next time I changed channel without WW. I think I should try testing the TVAspectRatio again.

tivax stb-t9 fcc id UVD20071228001
if you go to
fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=203598&fcc_id=%27UVD20071228001%27

you can get schematic,s, block diagrams etc.
Can't post a link yet. Need to do 3 posts first.

make that https://

Tivax FCC Documents (3.5 MB) (http://www.compendiumarcana.com/forumpics/Tivax STB-T9.pdf)

Additional information regarding my prior post #172 ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14048813#post14048813 ):

Having now seen the schematic (thanks peterhting!), which shows the Smart Antenna connector, I can suggest that my original instructions to use a 6-conductor RJ-12 modular cord are unnecessary. Instead of using pin 1 for ground (I had assumed it was the only ground and didn't bother to search further), you can use either pin 3 or 4 of the Tivax Smart Antenna connector as ground, and can therefore modify a standard 4-conductor RJ-11 modular cord by filing the tab in the same way, and at the relay end just use the wires from pins 2 and 3 (instead of 2 and 1). Note that a 4-conductor RJ-11 cord simply has no contacts nor wires attached for pins 1 and 6, but otherwise uses the same style connector as the 6-conductor RJ-12 (and cheaper and available in a wider range of lengths to boot.)

Note that I have not tested this - it is purely theory that assumes the schematic referenced in posts #213 and #214 above is accurate.

One additional improvement (7/1/2008): to protect the Tivax switched 12V supply from any reverse EMF that may be generated by the relay coil, I added a reverse biased silicon rectifier diode across the relay coil pins. The cathode (end with the line on it) goes to the wire from pin 2 of the Tivax Smart Antenna jack, while the anode goes to the ground wire from pin 1 (or 3 as per above). I used a 1N4007 diode which was handy but is definitely overkill - anything with a reverse breakdown voltage of 50 volts or more (e.g. 1N4001)would be adequate.

Something I've noticed - the unit does NOT have to be powered on to access via serial port. Data is transferred full-time, as long as there is power to the device.

at www dot consumerreports dot org/cro/electronics-computers/televisions/digital-tv-converter/recommendations-and-notes/digital-tv-converter-boxes-recommendations-and-notes.htm

TIVAX STB-T9

Picture quality. This model is among the few we tested that are capable of picture quality that comes close to a good quality DVD. It had a minor flaw that only the fussiest might notice: If you're watching a downconverted HD wide-screen program letter-boxed to fit your squarish screen, images are stretched vertically to a slight extent.

Audio. It delivers good audio from its RF and line-level left/right audio outputs (which you'd use with the composite-video out).

Features. Program guide provides show descriptions for several hours of programming for the currently tuned channel. Allows you to directly tune to a new digital channel without having to "scan-for-all-channels." Additionally, if no signal is found on a particular channel, the on-screen signal meter allows you to monitor its strength as you optimize the antenna position. So, if you know a channel exists, you can tune to it and adjust your antenna until the signal is strong enough for the box to tune it in. Has adjustable font, size, color, and transparency of the closed caption text and its background in order to make it more or less visible. It has a Smart Antenna connection. It comes with A/V cables (composite-video and stereo audio) in addition to the usual RF cables.

Note: Similar in function to the Microgem, but with different styling.

Although I own the Tivax, I would say the the picture quality aren't that great. If it is better, it is only marginal and it cannot be compared with boxes with S-Video.

Its close captioning has also one of the worst video quality - almost unreadable on a 27" Sony Trinitron. Its zoom modes are brain dead. Neither 4:3 or 16:9 TV owners could live with a single zoom mode.

The only reason that I am getting the Tivax is because it is hackable, and cheap.

I want to use the Tivax STB-T9 with my TiVo Series 2 DT DVR. I was concerned about not being able to set the channel on the converter box from my TiVo. I just realized that this TiVo model has a serial output that can change channels on a Motorola/General Instrument DTC 2000 cable box with serial port.
I see that you guys have confirmed that channels on the STB-T9 can be switched via the serial input. Do any of you know if:
1. The Tivax will accept channel selections from the TiVo out of the box, or
2. Can the Tivax STB-T9 be programed to emulate the DTC 2000 with respect to changing channels?
I have digital signals coming from several different directions and want to use the Smart Antenna features of the STB-T9. It would be very sweet if I could have the TiVo set the STB-T9's channel and have it optimize the reception at the same time. If this would work, most TiVo Series 2 DT owners would be lining up to get their hands on an STB-T9.

I want to use the Tivax STB-T9 with my TiVo Series 2 DT DVR. I was concerned about not being able to set the channel on the converter box from my TiVo. I just realized that this TiVo model has a serial output that can change channels on a Motorola/General Instrument DTC 2000 cable box with serial port.
I see that you guys have confirmed that channels on the STB-T9 can be switched via the serial input. Do any of you know if:
1. The Tivax will accept channel selections from the TiVo out of the box, or
2. Can the Tivax STB-T9 be programed to emulate the DTC 2000 with respect to changing channels?
I have digital signals coming from several different directions and want to use the Smart Antenna features of the STB-T9. It would be very sweet if I could have the TiVo set the STB-T9's channel and have it optimize the reception at the same time. If this would work, most TiVo Series 2 DT owners would be lining up to get their hands on an STB-T9.


You would need to be able to send direct commands from the TiVo to the Tivax. If you could tell the Tivo to send:

zir 5
zir -
zir 1

it could tune the Tivax to 5-1 or whatever you put in. There are smart antenna commands as well, but I don't think any of us have a smart antenna yet to try it with.

If you need to be able to understand some specific output type from the TiVo, as of now it's a No-Go.

When are you guys going to write instructions on the commands and how to use them?

I would provide examples like this one but also include the zmon> prompt as I know people will get confused saying their screen does not match.
zir 5
zir -
zir 1
Will tune the Tivax to 5-1 or whatever you put in.

Tivo will support the Tivax STB-T9 after a software update (late-summer)

http://www3.tivo.com/setupandsupport/digitaltrans/digitaltrans.html
If you aren't ready to buy a digital-ready TV, and plan to purchase a digital converter box to work with your existing TiVo setup, please review the following for coupon-eligible Digital Converter Boxes:
Supported Models

* Insignia NS-DXA1
* Venturer STB7766G
* Magnavox TB100MW9
* RCA DTA 800A
* GE 22729
* Zenith DTT900
* Channel Master CM-7000
* Lasonic LTA-260
* Philco TB100HH9
* Samsonic FT300A
* Tivax STB-T9
* Artec T3Apro

Not Supported

* Digital Stream DTX9000

You can learn more about the $40 coupon program for digital converter boxes on the official U.S. government Web site.
Please note, a software update (available late-Summer) will be required in order to control the digital converter boxes. Affected customers will be notified by email when the release is available.

Check the Apex vs Zenith thread. It appears it is a Tivax clone, but has SVideo. I wonder if you compare the two boards we can see exactly what needs to be added to enable SVideo out of the Tivax

Has this been verified? Has anyone found a way to enable S-Video on the Tivax box?

Also wish that Tivax had thought ahead enough to add pass-through to this box.

I finally got my units in and I have to say I'm not too impressed. Remote build quality is cheap, picture quality just ok, zoom modes barely acceptable, and tuner sensitivity average. I tested it against the RCA model available at Walmart and he RCA is superior. I think the RCA model is $59 but in my opinion it's a better choice. Of course, one of the newer models with analog pass through or better guide may be even better. I hope that serial port opens up a treasure trove because right now I am underwhelmed.

Ordered my Tivax STB-T9 on July 18, but have yet to hear anything about delivery other than a "Thank you for your order" email message. In their defense they do state:
"Due to high demand for DTV converters, it is taking up to 2 weeks to get converters to our customers. You will receive an e-mail with tracking information when your item is shipped. If you have any questions, please contact us by going to www.consumerelecgroup.com (http://www.consumerelecgroup.com/) and clicking the Contact Us page. We usually respond within 24 hours."
Sent them a simple inquiry this morning regarding the status of my order, so we'll see how quickly they respond. This vendor had been recommended by an acquaintance as being pretty reliable, so it was worth a shot.

Am holding back on my second coupon for now. Still reading reviews and getting feedback on the other CECBs out there. What is amazing is how many new in-the-box CECBs (Insignia NS-DXA1, RCA DTA800B1, Philco TB100HH9, etc.) are available on eBay, and many of them are actually being delivered for less than $20.00 complete. Of course the $40 coupons do not apply to these. Just search eBay with the term "digital analog converter" and you'll see.

In any case, am looking forward to the arrival of my Tivax STB-T9, as the serial port and its smart antenna connector seem quite interesting.

Sent them a simple inquiry this morning regarding the status of my order, so we'll see how quickly they respond. This vendor had been recommended by an acquaintance as being pretty reliable, so it was worth a shot.

The morning that the above was posted, received a reply from the vendor's sales rep stating that their server had crashed and my order had been lost. The sales rep also said: "But I did locate it this morning before you contacted us. So your order have been readmitted to our shipping department. You will see your order with in two weeks, if not earlier."

There was an apology about the delay.

And now it seems that I have a UPS notification that Michley Electronics (http://www.tivax.com/company.htm) in Mountain View, CA is making a shipment to me. Since I've ordered nothing directly from Michley Electronics (which is Tivax), can only assume at this point that this is my STB-T9 order.

Wouldn't one think that the dealer/vendor would communicate better, or am I asking too much?

I found my box to have menu that is hard to view.

Like the luminance is way overdriven, very bright and looses focus, so that it blooms.

It's like the Hotdog scheme for Windows 3 on steroids.

Only limited testing on fringe reception with less than good antennas. Compared to other boxes is less sensitive.

I just joined this forum. I ordered the Tivax T8 today. It has passthru built in which should obsolete the T9. I wonder how soon the T8 will obsoletize.

Where did you buy your T8? I have a couple of places listed on the STB-T8 thread.

I bought mine "Consumer Electronics Group". $53.95 + $5.80 shipping. It appears it will be 2 weeks before they can deliver.

I got my T9 there too for about 18 dollars after the $40 coupon.

I strongly recommend this box- it works perfectly for me with absolutely no fiddling with the antenna (a very basic, slightly broken set of rabbit ears from Radioshack).
The box automatically picked up quite a few extra channels compared to the analog setup, all crystal clear with good audio.

I don't really care much about the extra features and the EPG - it's pretty basic, and just a nice to have. The build quality is fine and the important functions far exceeded my expectations. I wish I had got it in time for the Olympics - I get terrible analog reception from the NBC channel in my area.

On the con side, the aspect ratio on some channels is rather strange - some HD channels end up centered w/ black borders all around - but at least they are actually watchable, with only a trace of macro blocks rather than a flood of analog snow. I agree that menu text and closed captions are a bit hard to read, but that is partly due to the low end 27" CRT I'm using.

The T9 has one of the worst closed caption display. The Zenith is a lot better.

"On the con side, the aspect ratio on some channels is rather strange - some HD channels end up centered w/ black borders all around"

Some of my local HD channel does that, on a HDTV. Somehow they actually broadcast 16:9 program in SD format on a HD sub channel. This make viewable area even smaller. Most HDTV can not scale further up since it already in "HD". I will guess this is the HDTV/DTV in transition so the DTV viewer can also see the picture in whole without do down scaling.

I can't get my Tivax STB-T8 to work at all and I hope someone can help me. After I made all the connections, when I turn the TV and T8 on, all I get is snow on the TV. It doesn't change when I press the Standy button on the remote. The logo never shows on the TV when I first turn the T8 on and when I press Menu on the remote the menu never comes up. I never get anything but snow. I had ordered 2 units at the same time, and tried them both with this TV, and all I can get is snow. It seems unlikely that they're both defective. I'm trying to hook the T8 up with a 1994 model 27" Sony Triniton.

Here's what I've done. I set my TV to channel 4 and have the T8 set to channel 4. I have brand new batteries in the T8 and they are inserted correctly. The remote will switch the T8 from standby to on (red light to green light), so I think it's working okay. I removed the plastic protective strip on the front of the T8. I unconnected the antenna cable from the TV and attached it to the RF-In port on the T8. I took the red, yellow, and white A/V cables and connected them from the same colored ports on TV In-Video 1 to the Video-Out and Audio-Out same-colored ports on the T8. I also tried using the Video 2 in-ports on the TV. And of course the TV and T8 are plugged in and turned on.

I live in a deep fringe reception area. The PBS and NBC station do come in strongly, others more marginal. I have an UHF/VHF/FM antenna on the roof with cable from it running down to the ceiling of the basement. I don't know if it's at the rooftop or in the basement, but the cable is connected to a preamplifier. In the basement is a splitter, where the signal is divided into a feed for the bedroom TV and a feed for the living room TV. The feed for the LR TV comes up through the wall to a connecting plate behind the TV.

The TV setup was working well before I tried to switch to the digital converter box, but our PBS station switches to digital only in 4 days, and that's what we mostly watch. So I can't wait until Feb to figure this out.

So to be long-winded, but I'm trying to preempt questions.

Can anyone tell me why I can't get to the menu of my T8?

Since you have the RCA cables going into the TV's "Video 1" input, you have to change the TV to "Video 1" to watch the picture - you can't watch it on channel 4.

There should be a button on the TV's remote control labled "Input". Just keep pressing it until you get to "Video 1".

^^or use a coax cable from the out of the box to the ANT in of the TV, if you want to watch it on ch 4.

Thanks Rammitinski and biker 19. I found Video 1 by pushing on the TV/Video button on front of the TV and also by using the remote control. I got to the menu and the scan found one digital channel - ABC. It has a wonderful picture even though the signal level bounces between 0 and 15, and TvFool shows a Rx(dBm) of -132.4 for that channel for my location.

I picked the STB-T8 because many of my TV signals come from translators and I need analog pass-through. The box for the STB-T8 says it has analog pass-through. However, I can't get any analog channels with the TV set hooked up to the STB-8. The manual makes no reference to analog pass-through.

Can anyone tell me what to do to get analog channels with the STB-T8?

Can anyone tell me what to do to get analog channels with the STB-T8?

From what Ive read on this thread, its just like on my Zenith, you turn the STB-T8 off. Then use your regular TV remote to go up and down the channels.

Still no analog. I tried what 300ohm suggested. Leaving the A/V cables connected to TV and STB-T8, I put the STB-T8 on standby and tried changing channels on the TV. Nothing but snow. I unplugged the STB-T8 and tried changing channels on the TV. Nothing but snow. The only way I can get analog channels is to disconnect the RF coax cable from the RF-out on the box and connect it to the TV set, and then work through the channels.

There may just be something stupid I'm doing or not doing, but I sure can't figure out what I need to do to get analog stations with the coax cable connected to the STB-T8.

You have to attach a coax cable from the box's RF out to the TV's RF (antenna) in first.

The analog signals from the antenna can't be "passed through" to the TV's tuner through the RCA composite cables.

Once you do that, then you can also watch the Tivax through channel 4 if you want, but the picture quality through the "Video 1" line input still should be somewhat better.

Ah, thank you so much Rammitinski. I added a coax cable from the box's RF out to the TV's RF in, just as you said, and I now get analog just fine. I'm glad 300ohm had already given me directions about putting the box on standby and then surfing the TV channels. That saved me from more brain stress. Thank you, thank you, both of you.

Next step is figuring out if the VCR still works.

Anyone figured out the code for the STB-T8 remote? I would love to add this to my universal. I managed to teach it everything but the Power button. It doesn't want to learn that for some reason.



Bob

I let the guy at Solid Signal talk me into the STB8 instead of the 9. Can anyone tell the difference between the two? Also, just to be clear, neither the STB8 or 9 will output a 720 or 1080 HD signal right? It says on the box 480i output.

I have a SamsungDLP and the colors look really saturated through the STB8.

The STB8 has analog pass-through and costs about $6 or so more than the STB9. The STB9 doesn't have analog pass-through.

My original post, stating the opposite, was incorrect, as aethyrmaster pointed out. Ouch, that's what I get for not getting up and finding my box to verify the facts. Thanks for the correction.

Not true; the STB-T9 is the box WITHOUT pass-through.

At least my T9 doesn't.

If anybody is interested, and has a Micro Center computer store in their area, they carry one of the Tivax models as of this week for $55. I didn't look closely at it so I can't say which version.

Anyone tried the serial port on the t8? I've been reading this thread (I think I read all of it) for a week now and I just got my t8 from microcenter yesterday. It took me a day to find my null modem cable but I'm hooked up and with minicom I get lot's of "Sleep Remain" countdown messages, but I don't get the zmon prompt or any response from commands like help. I suppose it's possible my cable has a bad pin, but I thought I should ask if anyone has tried the serial port on a t8.

For archive purposes: Turns out I just had to turn off all flow control (no hardware, no software) and the st8 works just fine.

Argh.. This is a very long thread. I read ALMOST every posts. So now the question is, should I buy? I'm buying it for my parents. They aren't very tech savvy. They can operate a VCR after a few days of training. I just want to know if it's easy for them to operate. Someone tell me please. :)

Meritline has it for $11.99 shipped. Is this the cheapest? I found a couple reviews that rated the STB-T9 highly. Don't know if they are trustworthy.

dtvconverterboxes.blogspot.com/2008/07/reviews-ratings-and-comparisons-of.html

dtvconverterguide.com/reviews/tivax-stb-t9