My neighborhood TARGET has carried the Panasonic DVDR EZ-17 and the EZ-37 for over a year and has finally discounted them HEAVILY...it looks like they will soon be replaced. The discount is $100 on the EZ-37.

THey both sport what Panasonic calls an ACCUTUNE tuner. I KNOW it is ATSC/NTSC but they are mum on QAM capability which I need. I tried finding out for sure IF they had a QAM tuner but cannot get a definitive answer.
My evidence:
Consumer Reports IMPLIES (but only implies) that they can handle cable recording without the box.
The carton has a caveat that says to the effect:
"SOME cable channels require a subscription to record certain content." I take that to mean that the unencrypted digital is recordable.

But I HATE to buy one, hook it up and have to return it.

Does anyone have one of these units and is it QAM capable? If it IS, are they decent recorders (the only diff seems to be the EZ-37 has a VCR while the 17 doesn't.)

Thank you.

Yes all the EZ units have ATSC/QAM tuners. I believe the reason they are so mum about QAM is because of all the land mines with QAM. Most QAM channels are not "in the clear" and therefor cannot be tuned by anything except a STB. Another thing with QAM would be Switched Digital, which would also not work with QAM tuners.
Basically the EZ tuner will tune what any other QAM device would. If you have a QAM tuner on your TV, the EZ should get the same channels.
I think mfgs. were tired of getting many returns from people who thought their DVDR could get ALL the digital channles, when this is not the truth, so they really downplay the QAM thing.

Yes the only dif. between EZ-17 and EZ-37 would be basically the VCR.
As far as reliability it's best to check the long threads on each. I don't believe the thread on the EZ-37 is not very long so you could check the EZ-47 thread it's much longer. Basically the same except the EZ-47 is upconverting and has other features like SD card reader etc. The basic engine is the same.
I'm probably a bad one to ask about reliability, I went through 4 EZ-17's in about 7 months with fairly light use. The store finally got tired of seeing me again, so they gave me my money back! Not everybody has the luck(or lack of it) that I had, but the machines do have their issues, like almost all DVDR's.
If you can afford it I would suggest the Philips 3575. Their $300 at Walmart and have been selling for ~$200 online referb. I would say as far as new DVDR's go people tend to have less problems with that model than any other. Just another thought. Their are 2 long threads on the 3575. It also has a QAM tuner plus a HDD which none of the Panny's have.

Thank you Jeff,
Your answer was most informative and explained exactly what I needed to know.

I went through 4 EZ-17's in about 7 months with fairly light use.
THAT is disheartening to say the least and I will look into the Phillips 3575 becasue that HDD appeals to me.

But at $195 new which is the price that TARGET has lowered their EZ-37's to, I might give ONE a run for its money. If defective, TARGET refunds money no questions asked...I won't play the 2, 3 and 4 game.

<I dont't trust refurbished but $300 for the new Phillips seems within the realm of the sanity clause.:D>

Thanks again.

<I dont't trust refurbished but $300 for the new Phillips seems within the realm of the sanity clause..
If thinking refurb Philips 3575, they're only $199 from Philips w/free shipping... click my signature and check the link on the first page.

. If defective, TARGET refunds money no questions asked...I won't play the 2, 3 and 4 game.

<I dont't trust refurbished but $300 for the new Phillips seems within the realm of the sanity clause.:D>

Thanks again.

The problem I ran into was that my first EZ-17 lasted more than 30 days. I the store I bought it from, and I think Target and just about everyone else, will not give money back after 30 days. Only repair or maybe exchange for another one. I was trapped in that respect.

As far as Philips referbs I wouldn't be scared off. I think lots of times referbs can be better than new, especially if "factory refurbished". This way hopefully the refurbished unit will have all the latest firmware updates and other known problems fixed. If you buy new, and it's been sitting in the store for 1/2 year it could be somewhat outdated in firmware or other known fixes.
Just another though.
Sounds like a good price for the EZ-37, especially if you need the VHS.

All my current Panasonic DVD recorders and combo recorders provide outstanding picture quality for recording and dubbing. The 2006 and some 2005 models are full-featured products.

If considering the Purchase of a 2007 model Panasonic I find very little advantage in purchasing a combo recorder over a similar DVD recorder for the reasons I describe below.

I own thirteen functional Panasonics, including four DMR-ES35V (2006 models) and two DMR-ES30V (2005 models) all combo recorders; and four DMR-ES15 (2006 models) and two DMR-EZ17 (2007 models) the last named are all DVD recorders.

All these 2005-2007 Panasonics provide outstanding picture quality with direct recording or dubbing/copying.

My 2005 and 2006 Panasonic combo recorders are outstanding dubbing workhorses. During my selective project dubbing portions of my home-recorded videotapes to DVD around 85% of the 5,200 titles were dubbed "internally" from the FUNCTIONS menu-initiated Time Limited dubbing/copying and/or Flexible Recording dubbing/copying method; and around 15% of the titles were dubbed "externally" with Toshiba VCRs connected to Panasonic Inputs. The "external" method of dubbing may be used with combo recorders and DVD recorders. Either of these methods of dubbing/copying provides seamless recordings. I have been very pleased with the quality of these recordings.

The Panasonic front panel "dubbing/copying" control results in a recording that stops and starts at videotape index marks or other spots--sometimes scene changes or commercials--deemed to be program breaks. These stops and starts create a new DVD "title." I have found the front panel dubbing/copying method to be unsatisfactory for my purposes.

Current Panasonic combo recorders (DMR-EZ37V, DMR-EZ47V and DMR-EZ475) do not have the essential FUNCTIONS menu-initiated copying. These essential dubbing/copying features are found on the DMR-ES30V, a 2005 model; and the DMR-ES35V, DMR-ES45V and DMR-ES46V, all 2006 models. The 2007 models may dub with the "external" copying method or the unsatisfactory front panel copying control method described above.

Sometimes Panasonic's outstanding 2006 combo recorders, DMR-ES35V, DMR-ES45V and DMR-ES46V (the last two with HDMI)) may be found factory refurbished to new condition by Panasonic--with a Panasonic warranty--offered online by Panasonic Authorized Resellers, and at reasonable prices.

Panasonic's 2006 models have analog tuners that will continue to remain useful when enslaved to government-approved converter boxes, digital cable boxes or satellite receivers.

Panasonic's 2007 models have analog/digital tuners. Three models, the DMR-EZ27, DMR-EZ47 and DMR-EZ475 have HDMI and upscaling. The good and the bad, including bugs and design flaws in these models, have been discussed at some length in other threads.

Panasonic's 2008 models, half of which do not have tuners, will be introduced in April. It remains to be seen what actual dubbing/copying or other features these new models may or may not have.

Panasonic's 2008 models, half of which do not have tuners, will be introduced in April.

That probably explains the $100 off on the EZ-37 at TARGET.

I the store I bought it from, and I think Target and just about everyone else, will not give money back after 30 days.
Though I am not 100% certain, I believe the TARGET return policy is for 90 days!


My need for a DVDR is STRICTLY as a recorder for DIGITAL TV programs when I am not home to watch them...I won't be dubbing anythng. I still have about 50 channels that come in digital and unencrypted via Comcast, though a handful of my faves including Sci-Fi and TLC need a box to avoid the hideous analog feed...they bumped them off 2 months ago.

Gosh, Phillips:
THough I didn't see the 3575V on the shelves, TARGET had several 3545V's. Phillips needs to get their act together: the BOX advertises 1080p upscaling via HDMI...a nicety. Unfortunately the MACHINE had no HDMI output? Figure THAT one. No clue on QAM tuner...they say "built in SDTV tuner for digital TV reception." Whatever THAT means.

I'm going to keep searching for the 3575...Best Buy in Manhattan tomorrow.

Though I am not 100% certain, I believe the TARGET return policy is for 90 days!

I'm going to keep searching for the 3575...Best Buy in Manhattan tomorrow.
You are correct, I'm mistaken. Most "electronics" stores are 14 or 30 days, but Target is indeed 90 days. Good reason to purchase from them.
As far as the 3575 I think the only place you will find them on the shelves would be Walmart, of all places. Circuit City may carry them, but I think only online.
Lots of times DVDR's w/QAM tuner will not really advertise it. If it has a digital ATSC usually it also does QAM. I think the reason they are reluctant to state so is because of all the problems with QAM. Largely due to the cable companies themselves, and with things like "switched digital video" you're QAM device will be basically worthless. Cable channels will switch frequency's due to demand. If you have a cable co's STB it will be no problem, but QAM tuner devices will not be able to follow the channels as they switch frequency's. Not very good prospects for QAM devices.
Note one of the problems I see on the 3575 forums seems to be related to the QAM tuner. Some may be tuner related, and some cable co. related. QAM seems to be a sort of "can of worms".

jjeff, wajo,

Is there another DHDR on the market besides the Phillips that has a QAM tuner with or without an accompanying DVDR? Or does Phillips have the market wrapped up? I'm not interested in some TIVO type subscription service.

That Phillips unit scares me especially with the results some people are reporting with QAM recording. And for me the QAM tuning is the be all and end all becasue I am resisting the Comcast set-top box...they want a $26 monthly premium for the box rental with NO additional channel capability. As it stands I LOVE my QAM capable TV although Comcast is slowly stripping off unencrypred digital channels.

I hate that company more than poison!

There are a few others w/hdd. Magnavox:eek: and Polaroid:eek::eek:
Of those I believe the Philips is by far the most reliable, but does seem to have issues with QAM.
I wish I could tell you more. I'm personally awaiting the Echostar TR-50. It will be a digital tuner HDD recorder w/no subscription cost, but NO QAM. Only for OTA.
Sony used to make a fine recorder w/hdd, but it's no longer made and may have problems after the analog cutoff. That's where it gets it's time, and has no manual time adjustment.
I think your only other route would be to build a HTPC. Record to your PC with a QAM tuner card. I'm not the one to talk to about that, I really prefer standalone devices and wouldn't tie my PC to my AV equipment, but in your case it may be the best alternative, and note if you go that route most all do HD, not just SD.

jjeff, wajo,

Is there another DHDR on the market besides the Phillips that has a QAM tuner with or without an accompanying DVDR? Or does Phillips have the market wrapped up? I'm not interested in some TIVO type subscription service.

That Phillips unit scares me especially with the results some people are reporting with QAM recording. And for me the QAM tuning is the be all and end all becasue I am resisting the Comcast set-top box...they want a $26 monthly premium for the box rental with NO additional channel capability. As it stands I LOVE my QAM capable TV although Comcast is slowly stripping off unencrypred digital channels.
I *think* you should be OK if you try one of the "Factory Refreshed" units directly from Philips, $199 w/free shipping... click on my signature and there's a link on that first page. You'd think these are just units returned cuz of the digital tuning problem and they have the hdwe fix installed... same as on the "replacement" units Philips is shipping to people who call with that problem.

Don't buy from CC since someone just got his from there with a Pack Date of Jan 2008, and the digital tuner lost tuning in that one... very disappointing.

Yeah, if you really need the QAM, then I wouldn't even bother with the other two. The Polaroid is total junk and is almost guaranteed to have major problems sooner than later, and the Magnavox seems to have problems picking up all, or sometimes even any of the unencrypted digitals. It also has issues with missed recordings.

The Philips is the best bet. Just buy it from somewhere you can return it. If you order it online from CC or Walmart, you can still return it to a store if you have to.

You could also consider a Canadian or international Pioneer or Panasonic HDD/DVD model, and use it with the Echostar TR-40 when it comes out, because the TR-40 is supposed to have a "VCR Timer" feature which will change the channels, but the latest statement says it won't be out 'till August, and then again, who really knows?

You could also consider a Canadian or international Pioneer or Panasonic HDD/DVD model, and use it with the Echostar TR-40 when it comes out, because the TR-40 is supposed to have a "VCR Timer" feature which will change the channels, but the latest statement says it won't be out 'till August, and then again, who really knows?
I thought of that too, but the QAM factor. The TR-40 is only ATSC. The Sammy 260 would work, but has it's issues too. Most notably the timer.
Prospects, other than a good working 3575 aren't too good for QAM people.
August!! man it just keeps getting further and further away.:(

Oops. Wasn't thinking there. (Dull sinus headache I have today must be affecting me.)

(So, jjeff, are you keeping the EZ-28 and/or the H260F?)

I think I'll return the 260 before my 30 days are up. Too many issues with it trying to do what I want. Mainly the scheduler.
Ask me in 25 days about the EZ-28......:D I'm bummed out about the scheduling bug not getting fixed, but if it doesn't die with u99 I don't know. It really does make nice recordings. I've even toyed with the idea of buying a new one after 30 days, then returning it with my old receipt. That way I would have an extra 30 days for it to fail. I'm not trying to cheat anybody, but I REALLY don't want to go through 5 units, like my EZ-17's. If this one dies, that's it no more. I figure if I can get buy 3 months I'll be in the clear, but who knows with any of these DVDR's...

I'm also bummed about the delays on the TR-40. I was really hoping to team it up with my analog Panny's, and who knows when the TR-50 will make it out....:confused:
My coupons haven't come yet, but I'm expecting them any day and the selection of CECB's seems slim....I don't know what I'm gonna do. This recording HD is getting complicated. I'm glad I don't have to worry about QAM though. That would really drive me crazy:eek:

Hey guys,

Fill me in here. I KNOW that OTA ATSC gets a GORGEOUS picture (I'm only a mile from the NYC transmitters) but how do you survive with the God-Awful CONTENT that pollutes the air waves these days?
If I told COMCAST to take a hike, all I'd be left with is the occasional PBS broadcast between pledge drives. How could I LIVE without TCM or Sci-Fi or even TLC and A&E's FLIP THIS/THAT HOUSE (depending on channel.):D

WHAT do you find worth watching much less recording on a nice sounding piece of equipment like that Echostar (and WHY didn't they put a QAM tuner in it?) I guess what separates me from the massses is that I have no use for sports broadcasts...and they are REALLY pretty on HD.

Most of what makes my nice HD LCD worth owning comes in a red envelope every second day (Netflix)..even if only in DVD quality upscaling!

Hey guys,

Fill me in here. I KNOW that OTA ATSC gets a GORGEOUS picture (I'm only a mile from the NYC transmitters) but how do you survive with the God-Awful CONTENT that pollutes the air waves these days?You mean you don't like Dancing with The Stars??

Recorded it last night:cool:I love that show for testing my DVDR's for PQ. It has lots of bright colors with good lighting. Not to mention with all the fast movement it's prefect to check for macroblocking.:eek:
I agree I would love to have TCM. I have access at work and am able to record to VHS, but like to keep it to a minimum.
At home I just can't justify the $40+/month it would cost me for a few channels I would actually watch.
My local OTA PBS stations(7 including all the sub channels) has some good material. PBS HD is probably my favorite channel, and in all 1080i glory. I also love Saturday nights. Regular PBS plays classic movies that have been restored to there full glory. I think "12 angry men" was on a few weeks ago. Great movie, hadn't seen it in a long time.

I guess we agree that TCM is the most valuable asset on cable TV. Here's my recent burn about Comcast: Two months ago TCM was digital QAM on my Comcast and it was GORGEOUS (even if I cheated and watched the oldies in 16X9 instead of the more true 4x3) but then Comcast did their COMCAST thing and encrypted it...so even though I BUY it, I am only given analog (watchable...BUT) unless I pay for a pricey box.
In the coming age of DIGITAL, Comcast has started BLOCKING digital.

So what Comcast looks to do in the future is to charge people with old TV's for a box so they can see ANALOG and then to charge people who have digital TV's extra or else they will ONLY receive analog.

They want EVERYONE to pay a $25 premium to rent a box.

God, I hate that company!

Sorry for the double post.

I am another TCM fanatic. I couldn't get by without TCM.

I have two Panasonics enslaved to my Comcast digital cable box that is always set to TCM on channel 501. One of my Panasonics is set to the cable box RF output, the other is set to the cable box composite outputs. (The Motorola DTC700 has no other outputs.) With this arrangement I can record in tandem when TCM programs blocks of my favorite early talkies through the film noir era. Now and then I may have my Panasonics recording from TCM around the clock. I have to admit that I enjoy watching my favorite old Academy Ratio movies on my widescreen HD LCD TVs. The actors and actresses no longer look so skinny that way. (I may always slim them down with the TV remote.)

I have been considering getting another cable box so I may watch TCM in my home office as well as in my bedroom where I record and watch TCM.

TCM has their own message board. An unofficial TCM board is Silver Screen Oasis. I am TalkieTime on both boards. Most of my contributions have been related to technical aspects of recording and archiving TCM programming, with a little equipment advice thrown in.

The TCM board has had a history of serious technical glitches. During these difficulties I developed a habit of submitting a rough draft of a message just to get it posted. Then I would go back over the message to make whatever corrections were needed. I have carried this practice over here even though this board doesn't seem to have glitches.

They want EVERYONE to pay a $25 premium to rent a box.

God, I hate that company!It's very simple. They want you to pay a consumption fee for every device you hook to their cable -- just like they did in the old days 25 yrs ago. Finally with encrypted digital and DMCA protections they can do that. Honestly, what other reason do they have for encrypting their feeds.

Same goes for FIOS

Fill me in here. I KNOW that OTA ATSC gets a GORGEOUS picture (I'm only a mile from the NYC transmitters) but how do you survive with the God-Awful CONTENT that pollutes the air waves these days?
If I told COMCAST to take a hike, all I'd be left with is the occasional PBS broadcast between pledge drives. How could I LIVE without TCM or Sci-Fi or even TLC and A&E's FLIP THIS/THAT HOUSE (depending on channel.)You're complaining about all the lame programming on the cable channels yet you consider the fare on TLC and A&E worthwhile?

yet you consider the fare on TLC and A&E worthwhile?

Nope, I consider only the single show, FLIP THAT HOUSE, on those channels worth watching. If I had to pay by channel, perhaps $5 each, my choices would be TCM, SCI-FI, COMEDY CENTRAL and BBCA...total, $20/month. Just the FLIP shows would not be worth a suscription to TLC or A&E.

DigaDo, my God you ARE a TCM fanatic. Oh well if Armageddon comes and the Turner/MGM/WB/Time Warner libraries are destroyed, we'll know who to come to to restart civilization. Will check out Silver Screen Oasis. <<I broached the subject with partner about cancelling cable and going bareback OTA and Netflix...he went white with fear. I MIGHT be able to do it but not if it meant listening to quiet moaning 24/7!>>

Kelson: It's very simple. They want you to pay a consumption fee for every device you hook to their cable -- just like they did in the old days 25 yrs ago.
Yep, I remember that it took an act of Congress and some court decision to allow "cable ready TV's" to operate unencumbered with pricey cable company junk. I guess Congress will need to act yet again to stop this encrytion of basic digital cable. I just talked myself into soon composing a letter to my Senators and congresspeople...might as well get the ball rolling...oh, Comcast just encrypted MOVIEPLEX yesterday.

Are ALL cable companies being as obnoxious in this encryption regard as Comcast?

Zip2play,

You've touched upon the subject of a la carte pricing of cable channels. I find very little of interest on most cable networks. That led me to think approvingly of a la carte pricing until I read one of two 25 November 2007 posts from "hlywdkjk" (Kyle in Hollywood) on the TCM message board. That post, and the article linked by that poster, pointed out that a la carte pricing might lead to the demise of many networks, including TCM. Here is that thread:

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=117503&start=15&tstart=120

Addendum:

The business model that keeps TCM viable is discussed in this thread:

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=121656&start=30&tstart=0

A few pages earlier in that thread there were discussions of AMC in its great original format.

Sometimes discussions on TCM generate more heat than light. These folks are passionate, not hesitating to express their passion.

Are ALL cable companies being as obnoxious in this encryption regard as Comcast?When the dust settles on digital cable, the only channels that will not be encrypted are the ones the FCC has mandated remain in the clear, which comprise the local broadcast channels one could receive OTA. But even then, with channel remapping they could continue to make life difficult for the box-less. Cable has a real problem with their bandwidth being capped. It looks like the things they are doing to maximize their bandwidth utilization -- switched digital, etc. -- will eventually make QAM tuners useless. The only good answer for DVD recorders would be the inclusion of cable-card slots. You would still have to rent them from the cc, but at least your DVDR would be fully functional.

When you look at the new lines by Panasonic and Toshiba they seem split that way. Half the units with tuners primarily targeted at OTA users and half the units without tuners targeted at cable/sat/FIOS DVR users. I wonder if they put a cable card slot in one of the tunerless models, would it raise the price that much. Surely not as much as the $50 price premium Panasonic is charging for inclusion of a tuner.

Ah, well . . .

When the dust settles on digital cable, the only channels that will not be encrypted are the ones the FCC has mandated remain in the clear,

Don't you think the model might more likely and more logically be the accord reached in the 70's with "cable ready" TV's..that what is bought is RECEIVED without a box. SInce the goal of the governmental involvement with TV transmission is to see a change to digital, wouldn't it be logical to assune an eventual mandate a system that allows anyone who pays for a channel to receive it expeditedly in digital?

DigaDo,
YEsS I read that article in print a year ago about how no channel could survive on a "pay per channel" system. I didn't quite swallow it...felt like I had the wool pulled over my eyes. It sounded like an appologia for Cable FOrever!

Unless I have the REAL numbers, I cannot make a judgement based on something like "a channel gets $1 a subscriber when bundled but would need $5,000 a subscriber if pay per channel." See what I mean? In reality I don't
know what TCM gets or how many viewers they have...but my guess is that they would do far better than ANY cable channel if people had to pay $x to get it.
My FEELING is that they would survive and SPEED or GOLF or EWTN (all Catholic all day) would sink like a stone.

Don't you think the model might more likely and more logically be the accord reached in the 70's with "cable ready" TV's..that what is bought is RECEIVED without a box. No. The model is already in place. You're just living through the gradual implementation. SInce the goal of the governmental involvement with TV transmission is to see a change to digital . . . The governments involvment with digital is to enable them to auction off the transmission bands.

When I was at BB the other day I think they had 4 DVD recorders without tuners & 3 with tuners. I guess it's a sign of our times.