Let's say you have a VERY old CRT TV, VCR, an aging DVR, an old stereo system, and LOTS of wires sitting in your 12 ft deep living room. Let's also say that most of the aforementioned home media center components are near the end of their useful life or have already expired. Let's also say that you have around $5000.00 to spend and a love of the Mac OS. Let's say you wish to "simplify" your life, getting rid of all those wires, boxes, rack, and that you wish to replace them with a clean elegant HTPC-based system built around a Mac and with as minimalist a footprint as possible (i.e., not so many wires). How would you do it? What kind of display would buy? What additional software? Speakers? Amp? If you already have cable like Comcast, would you stick with it and upgrade to HD/digital or switch to Dish? Would you bother with a wireless keyboard or stick with a remote? What Mac mini configuration would you buy? I'm sure you can think of other questions/answers? This is all hypothetical, of course... :) I'd love to hear any and all opinions.

I'd get the fastest Mac Mini to future proof. Max out the ram. Add a wireless keyboard with trackball, and use that with the Apple Remote. Bootcamp to Win XP when needed.

Display could be a nice LCD or Plasma, or go the projector route with an Optoma HD80 or HD70 (I have the 70 and it's wonderful).

I'm not a fan on TV, so would ditch the cable and rely on downloads or streaming through the HTPC, with Hulu, Netflix, network homepages giving you those options.

If separates are your thing, maybe an Onkyo 605 or 805 amp, Paradigm speaker system.

Of course, this is what I have, so I'm biased!

With such an open-ended question, you might have to spend some time reading the many forums here. Discussion of specific displays, speakers, amps, HD content provider comparisons, not really relevant here in the abstract unless there are very specific Apple, Mac or OS X related issues or questions. That ground has already been covered: it might be better for you to do your research and reading, then come here with your plan--how you propose to spend your budget and what you're thinking--and then get specific feedback?

You want minimal, well all your storage and recording can be handled elsewhere--so whatever you put right at your living room HDTV just has to be on your network to play that content. That's still gonna have to be connected to a "stereo" system and to your HDTV. You'll still need wires, you just have to design a way to hide them.

A dream system for $5000--you could spend that on an amp alone, so first come up with a "stereo" amount, and deduct all your essential audio-related expenses (for amp, AVR, speakers, etc) and then come up with an "HDTV" amount and deduct your HDTV expense--and then what's left is the "Mac home theater" amount. Dreams dry up pretty quickly when you have to buy everything, rather than upgrade piecemeal. This remainder will have to cover your Mac(s), aTV, gigabit and/or wireless network, RAM, tuners and hard drive storage. Tough to advise you on an approach, meaningfully, until you arrive at a dollar amount--since this hobby is all about dollars. Some general stuff you'll have to assess/answer:

How far away from the HDTV will you sit? Is it a bright room with windows or a dark room inherently? 12' deep isn't that deep--how far forward will you sit from that back wall? (It can be tough to get good surround sound in that tight a theater room with a couch, say, flush against a hard back wall. Will you be able to run speaker wire behind you?) On your budget, probably start looking at 46" 1080p LCDs--these are getting pretty price competitive.

Do you only want to listen to and view your content in that one living room location?

Do you have any other Macs or computers?

Will others in your family have to be able to access and control whatever you set up?

As far as the Comcast issue, you're already getting HD via clear QAM even if you're on "basic" analog cable--just the basic national networks and PBS, likely, but that's often enough. You can easily record and manage that with your Mac, so if you mainly watch 'House' and 'American Idol' you'll be fine. What you can't easily record with Macs and EyeTV-type tuners are encrypted HD channels--there's no CableCARD option for Macs either--so if want easy access to all HD that Comcast offers you may want to keep that Comcast DVR or consider Tivo. There's a whole forum discussing these HDTV recording options. By the way, are you factoring this monthly fee into your budget?

If you're limiting yourself to a mini, you don't have many options at the moment. It hasn't been updated in a while--not that any of its recent updates have been significant--and we've found out that the 1.66/1.83 models don't quite pack enough punch. So I'm with albo75, budget for the 2.0 C2D if it has to be a mini.

A Mac mini with a Blu-Ray drive and the horsepower to play the movies, from disc or hard drive, flawlessly (which I doubt will ever happen. Please, no comments about Apple's plan to have movies downloaded and how Blue-Ray would compete with that... I know). Until that happens, it's impossible for me to get my dream Mac htpc system. I would like the Apple Al. bluetooth keyboard, but with a touchpad or mini trackball. Something so that a separate mouse is not required to surf the web. I would also stick with my Universal MX-810 remote. The Apple remote doesn't cut it for me. DVR isn't a concern for me as I prefer my Comcast HD DVR. As for the rest, well, $5,000 is not nearly enough. I'd spend that on an amp or display alone.

For software, I'd probably just use Front Row, but I'd prefer to have a little more control over it. I'm getting into whole-house stuff, so I'd like iTunes to be more suited for that. For example, I'd like to have the option of anybody, from any Mac, modify the iTunes library, without doing any sort of hack or copying library files around.

I hope the mini gets a serious update. I like OSX just as much as any other Mac user, but it's getting hard to justify the price of a Mac mini for HTPC applications, considering what you get.

Let me begin my offering my humble apologies. In my haste to stimulate some dialog about setting up a Mac-based home entertainment system, I resorted to a "clever" title for my posting without recognizing the level of expertise of those who frequent this forum and the caliber of the discussions that take place here. I must confess that in the past weeks whenever I've had a few moments free of parenting and/or work-related responsibilities, I've been conducting Google searches about home entertainment systems. I've read both Consumer Reports online and the Consumer Reports online forums. I've reviewed countless websites and blogs devoted to home media centers. I've visited Best Buy, Sears, and the Apple stores and their respective web stores. To make a long story short, it's all proven to be very overwhelming.
A more tech-savvy friend has described our current home entertainment center as "pre-technology", and I fear that's an accurate description. The 2 year old destroyed what was, in its day, a high end NAD amp. The Castle speakers have tiny finger holes in them and crackle; the Toshiba VCR occasionally eats tapes; and our Hitachi Tivo DVR is over 3 years old and frequently runs out of storage space (…too much Elmo). Our old CRT TV needs an occasional whack to get the color back to something approaching normal. We were visiting a friend’s home recently, and they had an enormous plasma TV and were watching a Discovery channel nature show. My family and I were dumbstruck.
Clearly, we are not "high end" folk. We watch only a modest amount of TV--mostly news, the occasional serial television show, rented DVDs, and lots of PBS. We have tried downloading a few movies to Tivo, but don’t do that very often (too risky). The bulk of our music collection is still in CD form; however, we do find ourselves increasingly listening to web-based radio (e.g., Pandora, Radio Paradise) and the occasional iTunes download. The movies we most enjoy do not typically require Surround Sound to appreciate them.
Based on online calculators, the position of our couch (hard against the back), our personal tastes, etc, we’re thinking that a 42-inch LCD would be best for us. We are familiar with the best-reviewed LCD and plasma brands; however, we have not always been able to determine which ones work best with HTPCs. We won’t be wall mounting the monitor; and we’ll probably have it on a stand. Running surround sound speakers would be theoretically possible, but difficult, and given that we’d be unlikely to make much use surround sound, we might be fine with the television’s speakers or a simple pair mounted at the front of the room. We would likely enjoy all music and video content in that room.
We do have two other Mac systems—an iBook (the family workhorse) and an old G4 tower that is basically serving as a wireless back-up server for the iBook (thus, we are set up for wireless). I use Macs at work extensively. We were attracted to the Mini because of other websites that describe building media centers around it and because of its small footprint. We’d consider other options, if that would be more logical.
We have no desire to subscribe to encrypted cable (e.g., HBO, etc.), so your advice about clear QAM was very helpful. The Comcast website is very confusing and almost leads one to believe that digital cable and/or an HD upgrade are required to even access HD. chefklc put that concern to bed, and I’m grateful.
Given the comments made here, it sounds as if $5000.00 is pocket change for the serious HTPC aficionado, but, alas, that is our TOTAL budget to bring us out of the “pre-technology” era.
I hope that clarifies things. If this is an inappropriate forum for this discussion, I will post no further questions and quietly withdraw. Regardless, thanks for your patience.

I don't think you need to apologise -- we all started at the beginning at some point.

Unlike many of the users here, I do not use an LCD/Plasma for my viewing, I use a front projector. There are several reasons why it might be a good idea for you to think about this. For one thing, they are a lot cheaper than LCD/Plasma and they can give you a larger screen size than those types of display. Also, if you are worried about small children, you can easily mount the projector on your ceiling and keep it safe.

I will take a guess from something you wrote, that you like old, classic films. This is another reason why I would recommend the projector -- it gives much more of a cinema feeling than a direct-view monitor.

Assuming you find this interesting, you should be able to easily get a Mac Mini or even another model for around $1000 and a projector for around $1000, which would leave you with around $3000 for everything else. If you only need a simple, basic audio system, $3000 should easily be enough.

I think you moved things forward quite a bit, and now the fun can begin. You're at ground zero and I do think you can pull off a functioning, enjoyable system which you can also be very proud of within your budget. Stay toward the budget-to-moderate end of things here at AVS when you're looking at your AVR, speaker and LCD options. My point about narrowing down how you use this particular forum is there's little to be gained in opening discussions of "best speakers" or "best AVR for x dollars" here--speakers are speakers and they're better covered in the speaker forum. That you're plugging a Mac into an AVR and listening to content through it is irrelevant at your level of experience, that I have Macs connected to HK AVRs isn't really helpful to you. Any decent AVR or digital path receiver should get you up and running just fine in your small living room--and you can spend any amount on this. (By the way, I also have a 12' living room with a couch up against a back hard wall, so I spoke from experience about getting good sound that way--I had to lay a hardwood floor running speaker wire underneath it to get surround. It can be done, though, then I had to tweak the room to get good sound in that listening positioning--flush up against a hard wall can be harsh.) Consider a good sub, too, in addition to whatever speakers you get across the front--it's made a huge difference in our enjoyment. We have a Hsu, but again, that doesn't matter to our Mac.)

In this area you'll have to decide if you want an AVR with HDMI inputs and switching--or one just a few years older that have an array of digital audio inputs but no HDMI. Some of us here have newer AVRs and do try to go DVI out of their Mac through an AVR first and then to their HDTV, others of us have avoided that and connect to our HDTVs directly, just routing audio through the AVR.

We are familiar with the best-reviewed LCD and plasma brands; however, we have not always been able to determine which ones work best with HTPCs.

The HDTVs that we own have also been mentioned in threads here, just read back, there are a couple threads which mention which ones have worked right out of the box and which ones required some tweaking, which models worked over VGA and not HDMI, etc. Things have improved with the 1080p models--most of our problems were with older, transitional models and resolutions. Yes you do want to avoid messing with SwitchRes/DisplayConfigX. Read the LCD forum and try to narrow your choice down to a couple of options and then cross check here. My guess is if you stick to things that you can get locally, like at a BB or Costco, that you can return, you'll be fine. Samsung, Vizio, Westinghouse, Sony, the usual suspects in 42"-46" are the usual suspects for a reason and there's really no need to overwhelm yourself. Get a 1080p at a good price with a good warranty (Costco for the win) and just make sure there's a VGA input in addition to HDMI and component.

I've been conducting Google searches about home entertainment systems. I've read both Consumer Reports online and the Consumer Reports online forums. I've reviewed countless websites and blogs devoted to home media centers. I've visited Best Buy, Sears, and the Apple stores and their respective web stores. To make a long story short, it's all proven to be very overwhelming.

It can be, especially if you're trying to tackle the whole upgrade picture all at once. Best to break it down. It took me 3 months of reading off and on here at AVS before I decided which upscaling dvd player to buy--but I already had the HDTV--which made it easier, because after coming to understand dvds and playback in general, my real task was choosing the best player for my particular model HDTV specifically. And then learning how to calibrate. But everyone approaches this differently.

Fortunately for you the role of good standalones, especially a cd player or an upscaling dvd player or Tivo has diminished greatly in the past 5 years--get a good HDTV and you'll probably be tickled pink by the quality of movie and music playback with an Intel Mac, Apple dvd player, iTunes et al. No need for special software just yet. Decide for yourself when and whether a Blu-ray standalone is in your future--if so, hold back $300-400 from your budget and probably put that decision off for now. You can always drop that in to your system later.

Given this:

We watch only a modest amount of TV--mostly news, the occasional serial television show, rented DVDs, and lots of PBS. We have tried downloading a few movies to Tivo, but don’t do that very often (too risky). The bulk of our music collection is still in CD form

your needs aren't that demanding, any Intel Mac will handle your home theater needs just fine--any mini, some extra RAM, an external firewire hard drive for storage, an EyeTV tuner like the 250+ or maybe an HD HomeRun and you're off and running. Since you could pick a refurb mini up for <$500, that means you could pull this starter system together for $1K easy. If you can stick a few big hard drives in your G4 tower, that's a pretty cheap way to expand.

$1000-1500 for the HDTV, $1000-1500 for the audio side, that still leaves you with $1K in reserve.

We do have two other Mac systems—an iBook (the family workhorse) and an old G4 tower that is basically serving as a wireless back-up server for the iBook (thus, we are set up for wireless). I use Macs at work extensively. We were attracted to the Mini because of other websites that describe building media centers around it and because of its small footprint. We’d consider other options, if that would be more logical.

compared to these, a new mini will seem wicked fast and capable, which it is. What you'll want to think about is how you'll integrate these into your home theater experience. I use a 12" PB to control the Macbook in our HT all the time, you could use the iBook to screen share similarly should you choose. It comes in handy when you want to listen to music but don't want to turn your HDTV on. Likewise, I've kept two PowerMacs around the house and on our gigabit network they're great for storage and serving files.

Again, don't be daunted by this, it's not difficult to do. Just get up and go and start living with all this--and then it won't be so overwhelming. Hold some money in reserve so you can make some adjustments once you're 6 months in. But really you need to start living with Front Row, using the Apple remote, seeing what you like and dislike about your nascent system, what works with your family setup, what doesn't, and then seek out specific advice and options.

And, some people in your situation seeking a minimalist "family-proof" solution might decide to upgrade that G4 tower--by getting an iMac, let's say--and put an aTV at their HDTV instead. So you have options.

1. Start by identifying the HDTV you want and price it. This will help you define how much you have left for the A/V Receiver, a DVD or Blu-ray player, the computer and speakers. My guess is you're going to make some technology compromises or purchasing delays. Don't we all? Maybe the Mac mini ($900 - $1,000) can wait until next year, when undoubtedly, a better model will be available? Or perhaps you'll decide you can get started with a less expensive AppleTV, or just an Airport Express for streaming iTunes music to your sound system. The HDTV, A/V Receiver, and speaker system are most important.

2. Make sure the HDTV is compatible with the video on the Mac mini (or AppleTV). Apparently, some have encountered compatibility problems.

3. Price the top-of-the-line Mac mini -- my guess is that it should be between $700- and $900 with upgrades like extra memory, but I've never priced one myself.

4. You should be able to get a good AV Receiver with at least two HDMI ports (HDMI 1.3a) and a couple of optical audio ports for about $500, maybe less. To get you started, I like the Pioneers, although their intro and mid-level consumer receivers (not the Elite line) may be a little behind in HDMI video connectivity and audio processing. Their self-calibration and equalization are very good though. Look at their top of the line consumer model, the VSX-1017. It has many features found in the more expensive Elite line and a couple of HDMI ports.

I've read that the Onkyo's are supposed to be good receivers too, and right now, I think some of their models may have more HDMI ports than similarly-priced Pioneers (though I may be thinking of Yamaha). The TX-SR605 is a good value.

About four years ago, we also had to buy everything new from scratch, and started on a tight budget. We began with an even less expensive, 7:1-channel Pioneer Receiver (the VSX-912), which we picked up (with no research) on close out at a big box store for just $249. Of course, a newer model is available now, but the home theater sound is excellent and ours also has served us well for streaming iTunes music (by connecting it to Apple's $99 Airport Express, which I highly recommend if you've copied your CDs onto your computer). That said, the more you spend on an A/V Receiver up front, the longer it will last before needing to be upgraded. Our Pio receiver has no HDMI ports so we bypass it for video and run separate (optical) audio cables to the Comcast box and DVD player. This limits us to three video devices, since everything has to be connected directly to the Pio plasma (which has one HDMI port (cable box), one component port (DVD Player) and one VGA port (computer). We also have to push an extra set of buttons on the remote to switch between devices, but this is no big deal.

However, these days, HDMI with up-conversion scaling is now being included on A/V receivers (it wasn't when we bought). Since our HDTV only has one HDMI port, I sort of would like to upgrade to a receiver with three or four HDMI ports so that we can use the receiver for HDMI switching and connect more new devices to the HDTV. The problem is, the Pio receiver I'd love to have (with four HDMI ports) is $1,400 (Even it doesn't yet have HD Radio, which I also want). So, do you eventually want to connect more than a Blu-ray or DVD drive? How about a Playstation? And of course, we know about the computer. This will define the number of HDMI ports you (ideally) ought to have on the receiver.

5. Unfortunately, you're probably not going to get a Blu-ray player yet -- they still are too expensive. If you need a DVD player get one of these: http://www.oppodigital.com/. They have excellent video upconversion and are very affordable at about $150.

6. Certainly don't get a new HD TiVO if you don't have to -- save money and rent a cable or satellite box, or go with over-the-air local HDTV broadcasts, rental movies and the DVD player (or do the AppleTV thing).

7. If $5,000 is your budget, try to set aside $1,000-$1,500 for reasonable speakers. Bookshelf models are less expensive than towers, but you need a bookshelf (duh) or speaker stands. We started with Boston's. They are very good speakers that are less expensive than most chi-chi brands, but much, much better (though more expensive) than the $500 "systems in a box." However, everybody has their favorite type of sound (and speakers) and many good manufacturers offer products. My speaker choice may not be right for your room though...

As for us, we happened to have two 20-year-old Boston bookshelf speakers to get us started so at first, we just picked up a center channel speaker with a matching timbre. Later, we added new left/right Boston mains (on sale) and moved the old speakers to the left/right side channels to add surround sound. At that time, we discovered that one of the old speakers needed a new cone, and believe it or not, Boston had them for about $40 a piece (so we bought two new cones). A Boston tech also assured us the new speakers would perfectly match the timbre of the old models, and he was right! Eventually, we moved those old Boston's to another room for music and added real side surrounds to the theater room (again Boston's, which we found on sale at 50% off).

So, at least start with a good 2:1 or 3:1 sound system (left and right mains, a center channel, and a subwoofer). Watch for bargains. We bought everything on sale! Even our sub was just $350 on sale (10" Polk Audio), and it is just fine for our room. After a couple of years of piecemeal upgrades, we probably have about $2,300 in the speaker system, but we started out spending much less. Do try to do the surround sound for the long term though -- it is entirely worth it. At the very least, you can temporarily pull up the edges of wall-to-wall carpeting and tuck speaker cable under the baseboards to wire the rear surrounds.

Of course, we do have a relatively small, 13' x 22' theater room (actually the den) with a thick carpet and pad, curtains and a low (8-feet) ceiling. If you have a bigger room with no fabric, a higher ceiling and a tile floor, you'll need a better sound system (both the receiver and speakers) to help overcoming your soundstage shortcomings.

8. Prices could kill your budget unless you order cables online. Don't pay retail, and see the ads on the AVS home page...Do try to hard wire your component cabinet with Category 6, RJ45 Ethernet, if you can route your home network to that location. IPTV is the future. WiFi is terrific, but if you can, limit the wireless streaming for greater reliability.

9. Ideally, you'd budget for a full-fledged power manager for AC regeneration & surge protection, and connect all your components to it. At the very least, get a really good surge protector. Near the end of the first year, we went the extra distance and purchased a Panamax 5500 ($350 in a closeout sale on an old model) and a $250 wall kit that extends the power management protection to a dedicated 20 amp circuit (which gets installed behind the HDTV, which in turn, ended up hanging on the wall). We started out with the TV on the bundled stand, sitting on a dinky little cabinet. It looked just awful and besides, these flat screen TVs really are made to be mounted on walls. The good news is that this allows you to completely rethink how you configure your room and helps you improve the seating and viewing angles. This is very helpful in houses with small rooms.

The bad news: we decided the room needed the TV hanging on the wall. We ended up opening up this wall to run the wiring, and in the process, decided to have a cabinet maker just do a wall-to-wall, entertainment center built-in.

This stuff just snowballs...it becomes a hobby and is a bit like buying a boat.

Given the comments made here, it sounds as if $5000.00 is pocket change for the serious HTPC aficionado, but, alas, that is our TOTAL budget to bring us out of the “pre-technology” era.

Just FYI, it might be pocket change in the grand scheme of things, but the only users you should care about are yourselves. Spending money to improve audio and video can be like a black hole; reality is after you reach a certain point with your Mac and home theater, after you achieve a baseline of good quality if you will, much of any gain going forward is more placebo effect than a substantive and dramatic change.

For many of us, once we've reached that critical mass, it's convenience, usability and reliability that drives much of our decision making, valuing the way things work together, rather than sinking thousands into this or that upgrade of a particular aspect of our system. After an initial main viewing and listening area--usually the living room--next for many of us is 2) dealing with ever-increasing storage needs and 3) tying more of our whole house together on a single network, sharing audio and video in other locations, etc.

In fact, on your budget right now you'd have enough left over AFTER setting up that very nice living room system to pick up a good 32" HDTV and aTV for your bedroom and tie everything together.

After the $1500 or so HDTV and the AVR, Speakers + Sub $1500, that leaves you with $2K. Here's how I'd have spent it for you within the past week or two:

1.83 core duo Mac mini refurb $479 (+$50 to go to 2GB RAM)
500 GB firewire external ($109 WD MyBook 'Home' edition, $129 at Costco but with a $20 coupon)
EyeTV 250+ or HD HomeRun ($200)
32" Vizio LCD ($599 or less at Costco, 3 yr warranty if you use AMEX)
aTV refurb ($199)
Airport extreme basestation w/ gigabit refurb ($149)
Misc cables, cords and Cat5e expense to connect and network everything ($125)

That's $1910 plus tax. Find a better sale, or buy an item used via Craigslist, and there will be enough left over to stick an additional 500GB hard drive in that tower--all for $2K.

You want minimal, so no separates, no dvd player, no Blu-ray, no Tivo, no STBs.

What this covers? All your music, obviously, import into iTunes as Apple lossless, pack up the cds and move them to the garage. You can still play Netflix rentals in the LR, and dvds you already own you can rip and playback via the aTV in the BR. Staying with Comcast basic cable, you could record and watch QAM high def via EyeTV in the LR, PBS, local news, network TV, you'd have to convert any of these recordings to view them on the BR aTV but EyeTV will do this automatically for you if you want--overnight they'll just be ready in aTV format. That 32" Vizio has built-in NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuners so you could watch Comcast in the BR without any box. An aTV in the BR opens up HD iTS rentals for you there, as well as any HD you recorded in the living room and imported into iTunes. The radio thing, look to others for that because it holds zero interest for me.

That older 1.83 core duo mini is still a great value in the HT at $479, and has enough oomph and speed to deal with your basic HT needs. The thing is, the current generation C2D minis are over-priced and relatively poor values for the premium you'd pay for them since the capabilities of the machines themselves haven't been upgraded much beyond dropping in slightly less old CPUs. Apple retains the mini in its current C2D incarnation to make the iMac look good.

You'd probably be MUCH better off--from a performance, value and family perspective--getting a current generation 20" iMac refurb ($999) than a new mini--but that would only work for you if your living room was set up such that you also had a work/study area or desk, where the iMac could live, and then just run a cable to your HDTV as an external display. If your room is such, then that iMac becomes the new "family workhorse" which just happens to double as a kickass HT Mac: "n" wireless, better graphics, 4GB RAM, better firewire and USB options, etc.

Thanks so much for all the recommendations! We are off to an excellent start. A couple of quick questions, right off the bat. First, several of your mentioned budgeting for an HD-DVD player of HD-DVD/Tivo combo. I realize the MacMini (and it's bigger siblings like the iMAC) may not be able to play BlueRay (yet?); however, wouldn't the MacMini work just fine for playing DVDs? Why the recommendations for a stand-alone player? I'm sure I'll think of more, once I digest the upthread comments a bit more. Right now, I've got to wake up the kids and get them to school and me to work!

First, several of your mentioned budgeting for an HD-DVD player or HD-DVD/Tivo combo

You don't need to worry about HD-DVD, since it's dead, and if you go Mac HTPC with an EyeTV device you can do without the Tivo.

Budget for a Blu-ray standalone player or a PS3, only because Apple is dragging its heels in terms of commercial Blu-ray disc playback--no current Mac supports that. Once you get an HDTV you'll want to keep your HD "disc" options open and that means Blu-ray, but for now you can put that purchase off and see how things shake out in the coming year--pricing, models, features--will all evolve, not to mention what Apple does with its HD download model.

An Intel mini running Leopard will play regular dvds and VIDEO_TS folders (ripped dvds) just fine.

(What a standalone Series 3 or HD Tivo gives you is CableCARD and dual-tuners--which means you can record more of your Comcast high def than just unencrypted QAM. But that's an added up front expense, a monthly subscription fee, and potentially additional complexity.)

I apologize for my rude post I made earlier. I sometimes forget that not everyone has been doing this for years and has $20K to spend on a home theater. Anyway, my most important piece of advice is to remember who will be using it and to keep it simple. My test is always can a non-tech friendly person walk into my house and use my system without any instruction. That meant have a good, single, remote control that was very reliable, among other things. My wife struggled for a long time with my crappy remote solutions. It wasn't until I bought a very nice RF remote that my wife started using my HTPC to watch movies, when I'm not at home. Until then, I had to always set it up for her.

Everyone has different ideas about what an HTPC is, thus some of the comments about using stand-alone devices. For example, I currently use a Comcast HD DVR box instead of having my HTPC do it. I'm very happy with that and have no plans on integrating that functionality into my HTPC, because I have no reason to. Figure out exactly what you want it to do. I use mine solely to serve up my music and movie collection. Others have it do everything under the sun. Again, I like to keep it simple, so if I can get away with using a stand alone box to do something, I do that.

You mentioned that you might not want surround sound and that the TV speakers may be good enough. If that's the case, then don't buy a receiver and speakers. That will save you a lot of money. You can always buy a receiver and speakers later.

Lastly, spend a long time reading the forums here. Not just the Mac one, but the windows one as well. There is a lot of good info there that is applicable to all types of HTPCs, not just windows versions.

I'm finding these discussions and suggestions extremely helpful, and they are providing me with some specific things to research. Thanks to you all for your kind suggestions and advice!
Now that the kids are in bed and I have a moment to remember some of my other questions, I was wondering why some of you have suggested getting AppleTV. What's the advantage? I've never been completely clear what it does, even after looking at Apple.com. How are you folks making use of it?

I was wondering why some of you have suggested getting AppleTV. What's the advantage? I've never been completely clear what it does, even after looking at Apple.com. How are you folks making use of it?

Apple TV has the following advantages over a Mac Mini: It can play HD iTunes rentals, it has component video as well as HDMI, it has N wireless networking (the Mini is still G), it has the most advanced version of front row (you can do more in full screen mode, such as downloads from iTunes, etc.). And the Apple TV is much cheaper.

Personally, I have a Mac Mini and no interest in an AppleTV right now.

[QUOTE=Ted Todorov;13425286]Apple TV has the following advantages over a Mac Mini: It can play HD iTunes rentals, it has component video as well as HDMI, it has N wireless networking (the Mini is still G), it has the most advanced version of front row (you can do more in full screen mode, such as downloads from iTunes, etc.). And the Apple TV is much cheaper.

The Mini also has component output if you use a DVI to VGA adapter. Actually, this actually provides an RGB signal which is slightly better than component.

The Mini also has component output if you use a DVI to VGA adapter. Actually, this actually provides an RGB signal which is slightly better than component.

The mini has component out only after significant additional expense, using a transcoder like this:

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/9a60.asp

RGB doesn't help much, at least with most HDTVs--it's YPbPr that's sought most often as an alternative to digital.

I'm finding the acronyms related to cable connections and input/output (beyond basics things like VGA and DVI) to be rather daunting. Rather than troubling you fine folks with newbie questions about what it questions about their meaning and importance, and you recommend an online FAQ or Wiki that will help me to get up to speed?

The Audioholics site was very useful to me, http://www.audioholics.com, you may want to read some of the articles in their AV University.

also when you get a chance check out the HTPC subforum at 123macmini.com It's not nearly as robust a community as AVS but there is some good stuff there, just don't get too caught up with the tech-y details for now. I'll check back on this thread when I have more time. Good Luck

I've been reading this and other mac mini-related forums, and I can't seem to get a final, definitive statement on compatibility of the 40 inch Sony Bravia KDL40V3000 with the Mac mini. Specifically, whether or not one needs some kind of "hack" to allow the Mac mini to display on the KDL-40V3000 and/or whether combining Mac mini with the Bravia is doomed to disappoint. Someone up-thread suggested checking back here after we had a lead on a LCD display, and after visiting a few stores and doing a lot of reading in the other forums here and elsewhere, we've started to zero in on the aforementioned the KDL-40V3000. The spouse particularly likes the Bravia price (rebate included) and warranty offered by Costco. I looked at one in the Sony store today, and I was pretty impressed. What do you wise folks think?

I think the biggest/first decision you need to make is if you reallllllllly need a mac mini. Believe me, I used to be the biggest proponent of one. However, now with the new AppleTV, I'm not sure its necessary for a lot of people. I think that the simplification derived from using an ATV as the "feeder" to the TV, with a server from somewhere else is a very viable solution for a lot of people.

This will obviate the need for you to worry about whether your preferred HDTV will work (since the ATV uses HDMI). Also, using another Mac (I know you mentioned you have others) gives you more flexibility, futureproofing and ease of use for setup, and if you definitely want to use EyeTV to capture QAM signals, you can do this away from the living room and serve them to the ATV.

I think from reading your posts, and qualifications for a system, you might be better off opting for the more streamlined, user friendly, server+ATV option, than trying to have a true HTPC.

At this point, with Apple seemingly dedicated anew towards keeping ATV alive and relevant, I don't see anything you couldnt do with a "server" Mac and an ATV, that you could do with a Mini (feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken here).

Hope this helps simplify instead of confusing, and I don't believe I'm the first person to propose this type of solution to you.

It is timely that you should make a case for ATV, as my wife's co-worker is selling his unopened ATV for a very low price. We have an old Apple G4 tower that is just sitting around, and, presently, it's only purpose is to serve as a wireless backup server, as it is connected to our Maxtor backup drive. I perform wireless backups of our iBook to the Maxtor on a weekly basis using this set-up.
Your idea intrigues me; however, I'm not certain how it would work if I was to use ATV plus more or less the components I already possess. For example, if I want to watch a live HD network broadcast but I would like to pause or rewind or decide half-way through the program that I need to record the whole show to watch it later, how would that work? Wouldn't the TV tuner need to be installed on either the laptop or the old G4 Mac and that system would also need to be connected to a USB TV tuner (which, in turn, would be connected to our basic cable)and have the eyeTV software installed?. I don't see how this configuration would allow for those wonderful Tivo-like features of pause, rewind, etc. of live HD broadcasts that we desire. Perhaps I don't understand the set up you have in mind. Plus, wouldn't both systems be to slow for handling HD data?

This will obviate the need for you to worry about whether your preferred HDTV will work (since the ATV uses HDMI).

Very good point.

Also, using another Mac (I know you mentioned you have others) gives you more flexibility, futureproofing and ease of use for setup, and if you definitely want to use EyeTV to capture QAM signals, you can do this away from the living room and serve them to the ATV.

True, but this brings us back to some of the disadvantages--that the aTV forces you into more of the Apple walled garden. Capturing the QAM away from the living room is one thing, but the aTV can't play back anything you've recorded as is--so before you want to serve anything up to the aTV you have to convert it to something aTV/iTunes acceptable. Sure, there are ways to queue and batch convert, but that'll take forever with older single G4 Macs. And forget about Netflix rentals--which were another current use of the OP--since any dvd would first have to be ripped and then converted to something aTV-acceptable. At least with the mini any rental dvd could still be played easily, and any recorded high def program could be played back as is without requiring a time consuming conversion first.

I'm not certain how it would work if I was to use ATV plus more or less the components I already possess.

The components you already possess are not front line components anymore, the Macs you have are old and slow and while they still have a support role in home theater--frankly they can't get the whole job done adequately. You haven't specified which G4 Power Mac you have. I still rely on two old G4s, a 12" PB and a dual 1.25 MDD--but without an Intel core duo Mac I'd be much less satisfied.

This is the situation a lot of folks find themselves in, an older Mac can handle iTunes, maybe dvds, but not high def.

wouldn't both systems be to slow for handling HD data?

One of your older G4s with an EyeTV tuner can record broadcast HD just fine, it's playback that's the issue--and for that you need more power.

For example, if I want to watch a live HD network broadcast but I would like to pause or rewind or decide half-way through the program that I need to record the whole show to watch it later, how would that work?

There are many threads on how EyeTV works, FAQs at El Gato's website, and a support forum there as well.

Wouldn't the TV tuner need to be installed on either the laptop or the old G4 Mac and that system would also need to be connected to a USB TV tuner (which, in turn, would be connected to our basic cable)and have the eyeTV software installed?. I don't see how this configuration would allow for those wonderful Tivo-like features of pause, rewind, etc. of live HD broadcasts that we desire.

That configuration wouldn't.

All of your points are very good ones. I am thinking of the aTV as more of an addition to an HT setup, rather than a complete replacement for multiple different components (DVR, DVD player, etc) which it is not. If you truly want Tivo-like functionality and don't feel that the ease of use of a Comcast/TimeWarner DVR box is worth the price of admission, then yes you would need a Mini actually connected to the TV. That is not a decision I am willing to make.

All of your points are very good ones.

True, and I'm also not breaking any new ground or trying to sway anyone--this is merely the first hurdle a Mac home theater newbie has to cross in order to move forward, and there's no right answer--just decisions to weigh, and compromises to accept which come with each decision. Don't buy an aTV--well, then you don't get the iTS HD rental option; buy an aTV instead of a Mac and you don't get easy access to your dvds or your EyeTV high def.

I am thinking of the aTV as more of an addition to an HT setup, rather than a complete replacement for multiple different components (DVR, DVD player, etc) which it is not.

Understood, and for $199 with the recent software update it's getting harder and harder not to recommend everyone get an aTV as an adjunct--you're bound to find a use for it somewhere--and it's also why I included one in my $2K "dream" budget breakdown for lhparkiv (what was left over after he theoretically dropped $1500 on a display and $1500 on AVR + speakers/sub.)

With a little bit of work to fit into the Apple walled garden of aTV and iTunes, and coupled with a more modern Mac, I actually do think the aTV could be 98% of a complete replacement for those multiple different components--and it would certainly meet the "minimalistic" requirements of the OP. It's just 1) there's still a slight tradeoff for the most critical viewer in terms of video quality--since the aTV is only capable of so much, and 2) there's a lot of work, crunching and processing files, that has to take place behind the scenes--in a Mac--in order to feed and fertilize the "walled garden." That work defeats the minimalist approach in one sense--i.e. the work still has to be done, the OP still has to learn how to do it--but once the aTV rules are figured out, the user experience, Apple remote in hand, is a little more seamless and less complex.

I wanted to say this earlier, and didn't want to risk derailing this thread even further into a discussion of EyeTV specifics--because that doesn't belong here--but it's not like EyeTV is a drop-in replacement for the ease of use and wonderfulness of a Tivo--not even the most ardent EyeTV supporters here, and I'm one of them, could claim such. The EyeTV experience--interface, features, smoothness--is closer to the user experience of a typical Comcast DVR--but it does get the basic scheduling, recording and management job done well. Bells and whistles and stream-lined button presses? Not so much. EyeTV requires tending and maintenance, and there are a few bugs, bugs which don't affect every user equally: one's ability to adapt to those bugs usually defines their perception of EyeTV. For instance, even though we sometimes record 3 high def channels simultaneously, we never watch or pause "live TV" through EyeTV, and never start watching something live, then decide in the middle of it to "record" it; we only play back recordings. So the bugs that might affect the former don't interest me, while a bug that does interfere with a scheduled recording or affects playback bothers me out of all proportion. But that's the price I'm willing to pay, and the tradeoffs and compromises I'm willing to accept, for more control, lower upfront cost and lower monthly fees.

lhparkiv--back to you--what you need to do is start drawing up flowcharts with your equipment, think of them as different paths--and start understanding what you can and can't do along each path, what the tradeoffs and compromises are for each. Start with the cheapest and most rudimentary--existing iBook and PowerMac plus an aTV. What do you gain? And what do you have to do, i.e. what are the rules you have to comply with in order to care and feed the aTV? How will you get the aTV on your home network? It makes the most sense in this approach to sync the aTV with the PowerMac, store your iTunes library and ripped dvds that you've converted with Handbrake there. What's involved with that? Is your PowerMac is up to the task of importing, ripping, converting? Just for fun, take a dvd, rip it and use the Handbrake aTV preset to convert--how long did it take? Will you still rent Netflix dvds or rent from iTS instead?

Next, add an EyeTV device into the equation--which will require a USB2 port. Does your tower meet the minimum requirements CPU-wise to run the EyeTV3 software? Do you have hard drive space to store recordings and convert them to aTV-acceptable formats? Assuming your G4 is at least something like an 867 or 1GHz, you will be able to record high def, and you can tell EyeTV to convert it to something your aTV can play back.

These are the kinds of things you have to evaluate and weigh when deciding whether to use your existing equipment, to upgrade (like if you have to add a PCI USB2 card in the PowerMac in order to plug in a USB EyeTV device) or buy a newer Mac. Next, what changes if you connect an Intel Mac to your TV rather than an aTV? Much of this has already been answered for you--you just have to synthesize it. Good luck.

chefklc,

you need to get out of the kitchen and into the ht custom biz! You've got this down. :) If your menus are as well thought out as your ht advice, you've got some lucky customers.

Nothing beats a Mac Mini Core 2 Duo, wireless Apple alu keyboard, wireless mouse (no Apple, they suck!) and a Panasonic professional plasma PH10 series connected though VGA (No HDMI, this is just gives headaches with overscan etc.)
The Panasonic is available in Silver in 42 and 50 inch versions. It's a monitor so you need some good speakers too. Some silver nice ones like the silver Anthony Gallo speakers.
And connect OSXBMC with it and you have the perfect HD player for your Mac and don't forget to throw in some 1TB drives for your 1080p(!) HD x264 mkv movies which play flawlessly on the Mac Mini. They look *much much much* better than the so called 720p HD versions from Apple.

Wait a minute, how are you getting 1080p movies? Bluray? How do you get that into the mac mini?

I'm salivating a bit here.

There are ways of getting HD media that don't involve ripping a BD (because I don't believe that's possible yet). Think (legally distributed) bit tor. files, HD trailers from apple, and copying HD content from your cable STB through the firewire output (if you are lucky). There may be other ways as well, but not like exists with DVD.

I have both a Mac Mini and Apple TV in my home theater. On the surface it may seem redundant. In the end for me it is not. I use the Mac Mini as an interface to video_TS files and the Apple TV for Apple movie rentals in HD (something you can't do on the Mini yet). The quality of the movie rentals in HD at least is quite good and the ability of the Apple TV to output 1080p to my projector is great (albeit the content from Apple is only 720p). I know this sounds crazy too, but I use the Apple TV for playing video podcasts as well. I agree with previous posters, I have experimented with EyeTV in a couple variants and I really like their software. I don't however like not having a Cablecard in that solution. I use a Tivo Series 3 for HD TV in the theater. The picture quality is great and being able to record in HD is outstanding. The issue I saw with the Eye TV was that it would bog down the mini while recording. If you really want to export your programs from Tivo to your Apple TV (something I have tested but no longer do) you can use Popcorn 3 from Roxio to make the transfer.

I play all of this on a front projector as well. Just upgraded to an Epson Cinema Pro 1080UB and a 12 foot CIH screen. It is pretty incredible to see that a Mini and Apple TV can drive that big of a display and the quality is great.