New Article in Sound and Vision Magazine Online:
"Panic not! Forget the headlines! Pioneer will still make top-notch plasmas. Company executive VP Russ Johnston tells S&V how Pio will share some secrets, hoard others, and expand its product line."

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2803/pioneer-stands-by-its-plasma.html

Thanks for the info. You will get sarcastic people on this forum telling you that you are late on this news. But great link!

Chris

Wasn't Samsung touting the upcoming release of its BD-UP5500 as the BD-UP5000 and the HD DVD format were going down in flames?

Only time will tell how the 10G Pioneers, partially made by Panasonic, will perform.

Interesting...

So now Pioneer plasma's will be partially sourced by Panasonic, and the "as yet to be released" pioneer LCD's will be sourced by sharp.

I hope this will stop the bleeding of red ink in the Pioneer world!

Thanks for the info. You will get sarcastic people on this forum telling you that you are late on this news. But great link!

Chris
Yes, I realize that other threads have covered this in depth but I thought the "horse's mouth" aspect of the Sound and Vision article was worth reading.

But according to Russ Johnston, Pioneer's executive vice president of product planning and marketing,

Horse's mouth being the head marketing guy?
I love kuros, but i wouldnt trust a marketing exec as far as I can spit.
He's been given just enough info for him to spin everything the right way.
His guess is just as good as yours or mine.

Is it really a Pioneer PDP when it uses Panasonic glass?

Is it really a Pioneer PDP when it uses Panasonic glass?Why does it seem to be a foregone conclusion that using Panasonic glass will be a bad thing? The "share some secrets and hoard others" means that they will likely have Panasonic make the glass to their specs...and have Panasonic agree to not use certain portions of the technology in the panels for their own sets. Also, there is far more to a complete package than just the panel...if Pioneer sold their best Kuro panel to a small Chinese CE startup would that mean the Chinese tv's would be equal to Pioneer's own?

Also, as an owner of a 11th gen Panasonic...I wouldn't say that using the exact same panel as a 12th-13th gen would be a bad thing.;)

Why does it seem to be a foregone conclusion that using Panasonic glass will be a bad thing? The "share some secrets and hoard others"IMO this is the problem. 10G Pioneers will not be all Pioneer. means that they will likely have Panasonic make the glass to their specs...This remains to be seen.and have Panasonic agree to not use certain portions of the technology in the panels for their own sets.So instead of using Pioneer's:

"New cell structure with improved crystal emissive layer redesigned for a more intense black with added detail"

Panasonic will have a:

New cell structure with improved emissive crystal layer redesigned for a more intense black with added detail

Also, there is far more to a complete package than just the panel...if Pioneer sold their best Kuro panel to a small Chinese CE startup would that mean the Chinese tv's would be equal to Pioneer's own?If armed with Pioneer's technology, very likely.

Also, as an owner of a 11th gen Panasonic...I wouldn't say that using the exact same panel as a 12th-13th gen would be a bad thing.;)Which means a "step back" for Pioneer.

Is it really a Pioneer PDP when it uses Panasonic glass?

I know.... an interesting question. Im sure the newer sets will be just fine. But, Im still happy I got one of the "originals" so to speak. My 5080 is the last of a breed I guess. :D

I know.... an interesting question. Im sure the newer sets will be just fine. But, Im still happy I got one of the "originals" so to speak. My 5080 is the last of a breed I guess. :DAre Dell desktop monitors not really Dell because they buy the lcd panels from LG/Philips or Samsung? I'm wondering if anyone bothered to read the linked article..:p

I know.... an interesting question. Im sure the newer sets will be just fine. But, Im still happy I got one of the "originals" so to speak. My 5080 is the last of a breed I guess. :D"optivity's" crystal ball indicates by 2009 the nameplates will be the only way to distinguish a Panasonic from a Pioneer PDP.Are Dell desktop monitors not really Dell because they buy the lcd panels from LG/Philips or Samsung? I'm wondering if anyone bothered to read the linked articleAt least computer manufacturers "publish" their chipsets so we know what’s under-the-hood. And IMO, there is a BIG difference between a $500 LCD computer monitor & a $5000 HDTV. I for one would like to know all of the technical details regarding the $13,150 :eek: investment that I have made into my PDPs.

Optivity's crystal ball is wrong. ECC "infinite contrast" is targeted with the 10G Pioneers. You will not see that with Panasonic's 12G panels. Both will use 5 lumen tech, but Panasonic lacks the driver and driving algorithm to be ECC. Pioneer isn't sharing that tech with Panasonic.

I will say this, with the 12G Panasonics, you will finally see 8G or slightly better Kuro type blacks....but you will not see 9G or 10G Kuro type blacks.

BTW, when did Dell start publishing where their LCD panels come from? Do you have a link to that information?

Optivity's crystal ball is wrong. ECC "infinite contrast" is targeted with the 10G Pioneers. You will not see that with Panasonic's 12G panels. Both will use 5 lumen tech, but Panasonic lacks the driver and driving algorithm to be ECC. Pioneer isn't sharing that tech with Panasonic.

I will say this, with the 12G Panasonics, you will finally see 8G or slightly better Kuro type blacks....but you will not see 9G or 10G Kuro type blacks.I believe my guess is as good as yours and when Pioneer & Panasonic begin using the same glass & sharing their technology with one another the panels will become indistinguishable. Hell, I wouldn’t even own a not so Kuro PDP if my 5-year-old Panasonic CT-36HL42 (made in Mexico) HDTV hadn’t bit the dust.BTW, when did Dell start publishing where their LCD panels come from? Do you have a link to that information?I said computer "chipsets" were published, as in Intel, nothing about LCD spec's other then a ball park price for a "generic" LCD computer monitor.

$500 represents a nice dinner out with friends... $8000 is a different story.

I believe my guess is as good as yours and when Pioneer & Panasonic begin using the same glass & sharing their technology with one another the panels will become indistinguishable. Hell, I wouldn’t even own a not so Kuro PDP if my 5-year-old Panasonic CT-36HL42 (made in Mexico) HDTV hadn’t bit the dust.When I guess, I label my posts as "speculation". Everything I just posted, is insider info.

I said computer "chipsets" were published, as in Intel, nothing about LCD spec's other then a ball park price for a "generic" LCD computer monitor.Every computer manufacturer give's their chipset specs (CPU, GPU, Noth bridge, south bridge) as it is a marketing item. Does Dell say who makes their cases? Power supply? Motherboard?

When I guess, I label my posts as "speculation". Everything I just posted, is insider info.Market forces have a habit of dictating how technology unfolds, remember SED?Every computer manufacturer give's their chipset specs (CPU, GPU, Noth bridge, south bridge) as it is a marketing item. Does Dell say who makes their cases? Power supply? Motherboard?Some of Dell's components can be determined, but I stopped buying OEM built PCs years ago.

Market forces have a habit of dictating how technology unfolds, remember SED?Shhhhh!!!!! You will wake the Kuro hating, SED zombie.

Shhhhh!!!!! You will wake the Kuro hating, SED zombie.
No, No! Sleep, Sleep. :eek:

Shhhhh!!!!! You will wake the Kuro hating, SED zombie.
Give me a 42"+ SED that is price competitive to comparable plasma/lcd's (and give it to me NOW) and I will gladly join the zombie ranks.:D

optivity, sorry I do not agree with you and you have nothing to back up your allegations other than Pioneer's decision to sub-contract Panasonic to build thier panels for the 2010model year.

Here's the simple true facts, Pioneer engineers the glass technolgy, cell structure, firing patterns, all critical components, like the video processing, color filtering, all other electronics, the generated menus and all processing, software applications and firmware. Panasonic will not even have the Pioneer PDP modules to use on any of their models.

The sky is not falling, Pioneer can out-source the PDP modules to their exacting premium prioprietary and patented engineering specs and manufacturing processes and make them better while cutting costs and keeping control while advancing the art.

All good things for Pioneer, it's distributors, dealers, and the public at large. Think of it better Kuros at lower costs.

Time will tell us if you or Pioneer, D-Nice, tens of thousands of other advanced members here and myself are correct.

I have faith in the business plans, foresight and visions of Pioneer not to degrade the highest quality brand they have just began to build after years of development, the Kuro project.

-Robert

Panasonic's senior VP offers his opinion as well:


http://www.twice.com/article/CA6540521.html?desc=topstory


sorry if this was posted previously

I'm sure the 10G Piosonic's will be as good as the Pananeer PDPs.

optivity, sorry I do not agree with you and you have nothing to back up your allegations other than Pioneer's decision to sub-contract Panasonic to build thier panels for the 2010model year.

Here's the simple true facts, Pioneer engineers the glass technolgy, cell structure, firing patterns, all critical components, like the video processing, color filtering, all other electronics, the generated menus and all processing, software applications and firmware. Panasonic will not even have the Pioneer PDP modules to use on any of their models.

The sky is not falling, Pioneer can out-source the PDP modules to their exacting premium prioprietary and patented engineering specs and manufacturing processes and make them better while cutting costs and keeping control while advancing the art.

All good things for Pioneer, it's distributors, dealers, and the public at large. Think of it better Kuros at lower costs.

Time will tell us if you or Pioneer, D-Nice, tens of thousands of other advanced members here and myself are correct.

I have faith in the business plans, foresight and visions of Pioneer not to degrade the highest quality brand they have just began to build after years of development, the Kuro project.

-Robert

I would have to agree.
Being a manufacturing engineer for general electric(Embedded systems) myself, I can tell you that building to spec is what contract manufacturers do. , And in no way are our design engineers allowed to steal or borrow that technology. When we build components for lockheed martin,boeing,DRS,etc. those companys get a total say in the entire manufacturing process (I mean all the way down to the clothing people are alowed to wear on the production line, tempurature of the production floor, humidity,etc.). These companys also conduct random audits to ensure that their manufacturing process is being followed. Building to the companys specs and quality standards is a must because if they are not happy then the contracts might be pulled.
I am sure pioneer will use some of these same tactics when subcontracting out thier panels to Panasonic. So in no way is the sky falling. Subcontracting out work has become a huge part of the manufacturing process of today.
I look at the Panasonic/Pioneer manufacturing merger as a good thing. Pioneer will now be able to mass produce thier plasma panels, which wiill help them meet ship dates, drive down prices, etc.

I can tell you that building to spec is what contract manufacturers do.Don't specifications change over time? Do you really believe Pananeer can build a better PDP than Piosonic for less money?And in no way are our design engineers allowed to steal or borrow that technology.Who said anything about stealing? Piosonic has already announced they will "share" their patent display thechnologies with Pananeer.

I'm sure the 10G Piosonic's will be as good as the Pananeer PDPs.

LOL...crossing our fingers ;)

I would have to agree.
Being a manufacturing engineer for general electric(Embedded systems) myself, I can tell you that building to spec is what contract manufacturers do. , And in no way are our design engineers allowed to steal or borrow that technology. When we build components for lockheed martin,boeing,DRS,etc. those companys get a total say in the entire manufacturing process (I mean all the way down to the clothing people are alowed to wear on the production line, tempurature of the production floor, humidity,etc.). These companys also conduct random audits to ensure that their manufacturing process is being followed. Building to the companys specs and quality standards is a must because if they are not happy then the contracts might be pulled.
I am sure pioneer will use some of these same tactics when subcontracting out thier panels to Panasonic. So in no way is the sky falling. Subcontracting out work has become a huge part of the manufacturing process of today.
I look at the Panasonic/Pioneer manufacturing merger as a good thing. Pioneer will now be able to mass produce thier plasma panels, which wiill help them meet ship dates, drive down prices, etc.

I disagree.

It will be a good thing for almost 99% of people here, 100% for Pioneer itself. But it is not good for me and I know it!


John & Elvis Are Dead

If Pioneer brings a 10G product to market, I am sure that it will be a top notch product. I do not understand why people are arguing so much about the quality of such a product before any 9G product has even hit the stores. One year at a time please.

I have a bigger concern that if Pioneer does not achieve a big improvement in product distribution, increased sales, and turn a profit on their 2008 plasma line, they may not be in the Plasma business next year.

They have run in the red for four straight years, have dropped to only 3% market share, and had to take on Sharp as a bailout partner.

I am hoping that they get their marketing and distribution act together so that 2008 is a very successful year for them. I would hate to see the Pioneer Plasma brand disappear for ever, but I am sure that the major share holders and board of directors are not going to continue to invest in a major money loser.

If you want to keep the Pioneer Plasma brand and superior engineering around, and you are in the market for a new plasma, buy a 9G Kuro, or two, so that those who call the shots will see that it will be financially worth while for them to stay in the Plasma business.:)

I have a bigger concern that if Pioneer does not achieve a big improvement in product distribution



I am hoping that they get their marketing and distribution act together so that 2008 is a very successful year for them.

I would say this was a big boo boo for them this year. I agree 100%.

I have a bigger concern that if Pioneer does not achieve a big improvement in product distribution, increased sales, and turn a profit on their 2008 plasma line, they may not be in the Plasma business next year.
I am hoping that they get their marketing and distribution act together so that 2008 is a very successful year for them.
Hopefully all this will be possible by outsourcing the glass production. My crystal ball (however humble and cloudy) foresees this as a great opportunity for pioneer to get back on financial track.

Who said anything about stealing? Piosonic has already announced they will "share" their patent display thechnologies with Pananeer.

Yes but Pioneer said they will keep the key components that make a Kuro a kuro exclusive to pioneer.
I certainly hope they do.
But even if they share their Kuro tech with panasonic there is still an upside, we will be able to buy a Kuro-equivilant panasonic for a much lower price. :D

Yes but Pioneer said they will keep the key components that make a Kuro a kuro exclusive to pioneer.
I certainly hope they do.
But even if they share their Kuro tech with panasonic there is still an upside, we will be able to buy a Kuro-equivilant panasonic for a much lower price. :DActually, this is what I believe will happen. By 2009 & beyond, Panasonic will be the BIG Dog in a small PDP pond. I don't really care what nameplate is on the front bezel provided the display renders a high quality image and is not subject to failure after 5 years as TVs made in Mexico are prone to.

BTW... isn't Pioneer getting into the LCD business? The handwriting is on the wall.

yes they are.. and this will be for the smaller size screens less than 50"

what you say does not matter because only time will tell.

BTW... isn't Pioneer getting into the LCD business? The handwriting is on the wall.

What makes a Pioneer special is the superior processing and the one piece bonded filter.

If they took Panasonic glass from TODAY, add their crystal emmisive layer and electronics you would get a result equal to or better than what Runco and Fujistu have been doing for years.

I don't remember too many people complaining about those results.
The panel itsself has become the commodity component.

Its embarassing to have to keep reading persistent comments of how it won't be a real Pioneer.

Thank you jrbd90 ^^. May I add that Panasonic will be building the pdp modules to Pioneer's patented specifications and these pdp modules will be manufactured exclusively for Pioneer.

-Robert

Any speculation on if all 10g plasma will use a media box or will pioneer/panny release units that have tuners installed in the plasma in 2009?

mattg3, ^^ only the 10G .9mm thin model will use a media box.

-Robert

wonder why the 9g thin bezel didnt offer a media box as an optional purchase?Might be more appealing to general public

Any speculation on if all 10g plasma will use a media box or will pioneer/panny release units that have tuners installed in the plasma in 2009?Will the 10G Pioneers be interactive PDPs & provide "native" two-way communication support for CATV/FiOS networks?