I just got the th65pz750u and I can't find on panny's site if it supports 24fps. I just talked to a panny support person and when I asked if it supports 24fps movie mode he said "it displays much better than that sir". So not sure I really trust what he had to say. Does it support 24fps?

I'm pairing the TV with the Samsung BD-UP5000 combo player which has a setting for 24fps but when I do this the image is displayed at a lower resolution and not full screen. Haven't been able to figure this one out yet.

It sounds a bit counter intuitive to me that 24fps is better than 60fps. Could someone give me a tech explanation to why 24fps is better?

I'll try and answer your last question first. Film is shot at 24fps, most TVs operate at 60fps, so to display a film on a TV you must make 24fps fit into 60fps. This is usually accomplished by repeating the first frame 3 times, the second 2 times and repeating that pattern 12 times to turn those 24 frames into 60 frames. The problem with this method of displaying film is that each of those 24 frames aren't being displayed for the same amount of time, the first frame will be displayed for 3/60th of a second while the second frame will be displayed for 2/60th of a second. This leads to an artifact call telecine judder.

Certain plasma displays such as Pioneer's Kuro support 24fps and will repeat every frame 3 times operating at 72fps, this will result in a smoother presentation of film based materiel.

Your TH-65PZ750 MAY accept 1080p/24 but it will display it at 60fps using the 3:2 pattern I talked about above.

Good explanation. Thank you! Here is a chat conversation I had with a panasonic support rep:

==========================
Thank you for contacting Panasonic Plasma Concierge. You will be connected to an Expert momentarily.
You are now chatting with 'Ron', your Panasonic Plasma Expert.
Ron: Thank you for contacting Panasonic Plasma Concierge. How may I help you today?
B: I just got the th65pz750u
B: and i have 2 problems
Ron: ok
B: first, does the tv display hd and bluray at 24pfs?
Ron: higher than that sir
Ron: this unit can go up to 64 frames per second
Ron: depending on the signal thats being sent to it
Ron: depends on the player
B: im talking about the movie setting on the blu ray and hd players of 24fps
B: which is better than the 60fps
B: for image quality
Ron: i mean its depends on your player sir and what it can output
B: it can do both
Ron: the set will just adjust to the signal that is being provided
B: when i set 24fps the image is shrunk
Ron: well of course higher frames per second is better so there is less lag during lots of movement
Ron: is your blue ray player panasonic
B: samsung
Ron: I am not sure their features sir you might want to ask samsung
B: so the tv will display the native 24fps signal is what you are telling me...or it should
Ron: yes it can display it sir
B: and it should display it full screen
Ron: it can do UP TO 64 Frames per second
Ron: yes
B: ok...i still think we are talking about 2 different things
B: all the talk on the av forums is how the image quality is better with a tv that can display the native 24fps
Ron: well regardless that is a samsung feature you have to adjust in their blue ray player
B: of the original movie
Ron: since the tv is just receiving the signal from the player
Ron: and if its not coming in full screen y
Ron: you need to contact samsung sir on how to make those adjustments on their player
Ron: I have no knowledge of their players
B: so it will do 1080p24 not just 1080p60
Ron: yes
B: just want to make sure because when i contact them and say it only displays in a small window on the tv they are going to say it is the tv and that i need to contact panasonic
Ron: sir let me explain to you this
Ron: you are connected with your player
Ron: going from an output
Ron: to an input on the TV
Ron: whenever the set is on an input
Ron: the unit does nothing just receive from the main source which is your player
Ron: the TV is acting like a monitor
Ron: which is just receiving the signal
Ron: so it would make sense that those adjustments that you need to do to fill in the screen
Ron: would have to be done on the main source which is coming from the player
B: well its a little misleading to say that the TV has nothing to do with the display
B: that it will display anything perfectly and that it is always the source
Ron: that what it is sir
Ron: lets say you have a cable box outputting a resolution at 480p
Ron: then you switch to a channel that is HD in 1080i
Ron: the set automatically changes to that resolution that is being sent to it
Ron: you cant set a certain resolution on the unit
Ron: it adjust depending on the signal
Ron: same aspect
Ron: especially when its in and input
Ron: the only time that isnt the case is when you are running off the units tuner
Ron: but whenever your connected from another source
Ron: that source is what is being provided to the set
Ron: its basic input and output sir
B: well...ill contact samsung but i can bet you they are going to say the exact opposite and say that it is a panasonic problem. what do i tell them when they say this so im not in this support loop and only getting more frustrated that I just dropped thousands and things are working properly?
Ron: copy and paste this conversation sir and read it to them
Ron: I guarantee you they will not know what to say if they do say that
B: ill do that
Ron: anything else
B: thats it

===============================

He says that it supports 24fps but the way he talks about it makes me think we aren't talking about the same thing. When I make the setting on the DVD player it DOES show an image, it's just shrunk in size which makes me thinkg that MAYBE it does support 24fps but that I just have something setup incorrectly.

Does anyone know for a fact that the 65" panny supports 24fps?

Your display does accept 1080p/24 using 3:2 pulldown, as explained above. You need to check your BD player to see what it's outputting. I have a BD player and it's set to output 24fps, and I'm getting a full screen with 3:2 pulldown. The new Consumer 80/85 and Professional PF models have a cinema mode that displays 24fps without using pulldown.

I'll try and answer your last question first. Film is shot at 24fps, most TVs operate at 60fps, so to display a film on a TV you must make 24fps fit into 60fps. This is usually accomplished by repeating the first frame 3 times, the second 2 times and repeating that pattern 12 times to turn those 24 frames into 60 frames. The problem with this method of displaying film is that each of those 24 frames aren't being displayed for the same amount of time, the first frame will be displayed for 3/60th of a second while the second frame will be displayed for 2/60th of a second. This leads to an artifact call telecine judder.

Certain plasma displays such as Pioneer's Kuro support 24fps and will repeat every frame 3 times operating at 72fps, this will result in a smoother presentation of film based material?

Your TH-65PZ750 MAY accept 1080p/24 but it will display it at 60fps using the 3:2 pattern I talked about above.HDPeeT, thanks for your succinct and easily understood explanation. If a PDP was to support higher frame rates (e.g. 96 Hz or 120 Hz), would this result with smoother playback of film based material.

BTW, do you happen to own a Pioneer PDP? Currently there is a lot of discussion going on the owner's settings thread regarding how the 8G displays treat 1080p/24 DVDs using the various PureCinema modes: Off/Standard/Smooth/Advance.

Your display does accept 1080p/24 using 3:2 pulldown, as explained above. You need to check your BD player to see what it's outputting. I have a BD player and it's set to output 24fps, and I'm getting a full screen with 3:2 pulldown. The new Consumer 80/85 and Professional PF models have a cinema mode that displays 24fps without using pulldown.

I have the Samsung BD-UP5000 combo player. It has a setting for "Movie Frame 24fs" and it is on and off. When I select on, the TV displays the setup screen in a much lower resolution and not full screen.

My understanding is that the screen should be blank if it does not support this mode but it isn't which leads me to believe it does support it and that I'm doing something wrong with the setup. The support guy at panasonic told me it does. The support guy at ABT Electronics told me it doesn't and my personal experience suggests that it "may" support it.

Do any of you actually have this set running with a player set to display 24fps? What are your settings?

The Samsung Blu-Ray players are known to have many glitches including problems with the 24fps output, they are actually being sued over disc compatibility issues with some of the players:eek:. In any case, there is no advantage to sending the PZ750 a 1080p/24 signal because it will just display it at 60fps anyway. I have no idea what that guy is talking about with the 64fps thing but I 99% sure that the 2007 Panasonic consumer plasmas (such as the 750) will not display 1080p/24- if it displays it at all-at anything other than 60fps.

You should try setting the player to 1080p(60) or 1080i and see how that works.

Link to: Displays that support 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13167876)

IMO, this 24fps thing is really not worth much time and effort.

I have an FD6010, which supports 24hz input. When I first got it, I experimented feeding it 24Hz and 60Hz.

At least in my experience, the benefits of eliminating 3:2 are largely theoretical. Most modern gadgets can do the pulldown well enough, so that the benefits of eliminating this step are largely academic. I suppose the greatest benefit of 24Hz input is as a tool for the marketing department, to have something to write about in "Great NEW Features," and make us feel better about an upgrade....

I personally did not really notice any clear difference (even though I wanted to:-)

Although I want to display movies at the best possible image quality available to me, what I am more concerned with is that what I am seeing is a symptom of an upcoming hardware problem. It always worries me when "features" are supposed to work and they don't. At that point, you have to start tracking down the culprit and since everything is brand new and I spent a ton of money on it, I want to make sure I get anything replaced that needs to be replaced if there is a hardware issue.

At this point I have as many experts telling me that this should work with my equipment as they are telling me it shouldn't work.

Thank you all for your input because it's making me smarter but I am still trying to find someone with this TV running with 24fps mode and what their settings are.

IMO, this 24fps thing is really not worth much time and effort.

I have an FD6010, which supports 24hz input. When I first got it, I experimented feeding it 24Hz and 60Hz.

At least in my experience, the benefits of eliminating 3:2 are largely theoretical. Most modern gadgets can do the pulldown well enough, so that the benefits of eliminating this step are largely academic. I suppose the greatest benefit of 24Hz input is as a tool for the marketing department, to have something to write about in "Great NEW Features," and make us feel better about an upgrade....

I personally did not really notice any clear difference (even though I wanted to:-)I disagree. Most movies on Blu-ray disc are encoded as 1080p24 video frames. For TVs with 60 Hz video output 3:2 pull down is employed to convert a 24 Hz frame rate to 60 Hz, which can introduce judder. For TVs that synchronize with a 24 Hz frame rate and convert those frames to: 48 Hz, 72 Hz, 96 Hz, or 120 Hz; when played back images with motion appear to look smoother.

I can definitely see a difference using 1080p24, primarily during panning scenes that include text characters.

Although I want to display movies at the best possible image quality available to me, what I am more concerned with is that what I am seeing is a symptom of an upcoming hardware problem. It always worries me when "features" are supposed to work and they don't. At that point, you have to start tracking down the culprit and since everything is brand new and I spent a ton of money on it, I want to make sure I get anything replaced that needs to be replaced if there is a hardware issue.

At this point I have as many experts telling me that this should work with my equipment as they are telling me it shouldn't work.

Thank you all for your input because it's making me smarter but I am still trying to find someone with this TV running with 24fps mode and what their settings are.


you should check into the th65pz750u owners thread.

you should check into the th65pz750u owners thread.

I wish there was one. I have been searching for an owners thread on this set and have been unable to find it. There is a th58pz750u owner thread but that's all I have found.

I wish there was one. I have been searching for an owners thread on this set and have been unable to find it. There is a th58pz750u owner thread but that's all I have found.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=895373&highlight=65pz750

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=895373&highlight=65pz750

cant tell you how many different incarnations I have searched for the 65pz750u and not found that link. Thanks!

Your display does accept 1080p/24 using 3:2 pulldown, as explained above. You need to check your BD player to see what it's outputting. I have a BD player and it's set to output 24fps, and I'm getting a full screen with 3:2 pulldown. The new Consumer 80/85 and Professional PF models have a cinema mode that displays 24fps without using pulldown.
No it doesn't. The Panasonic pz7XX series do not accept a 24fps signal in any way that could be considered acceptable. I have a pz500 and when I forced 24fps from my PS3 I got the same thing the OP got, an image about 1/3 the size of the screen, located in the upper left corner with all sides cropped.

When you feed these sets 24fps they do a "3:2, 60%reduction, crop edges" pull down. It's unique to the Pannys. ;)

The Panasonic rep should've understood that the OP was asking if the set accepts a 24fps signal and should know that it doesn't.

No it doesn't. The Panasonic pz7XX series do not accept a 24fps signal in any way that could be considered acceptable. I have a pz500 and when I forced 24fps from my PS3 I got the same thing the OP got, an image about 1/3 the size of the screen, located in the upper left corner with all sides cropped.

When you feed these sets 24fps they do a "3:2, 60%reduction, crop edges" pull down. It's unique to the Pannys. ;)

So when I talk to the panasonic support people and they tell me it does support it, what do I tell them? They keep telling me it's my DVD player. How can I prove this is one thing or the other? They keep telling me that it supports this mode so I can't just say it doesn't support this mode and be done with it.

So when I talk to the panasonic support people and they tell me it does support it, what do I tell them? They keep telling me it's my DVD player. How can I prove this is one thing or the other? They keep telling me that it supports this mode so I can't just say it doesn't support this mode and be done with it.
If you know it why do you need to prove it to them? Besides, the fact that the set doesn't support 24fps is a minor issue. I would reduce judder (many people don't even notice it) but it's not going to make the movie smoother. Judder really only shows up when the camera is panning across a scene. Being that it's filmed at 24fps it's going to look blurry and viewing it at 48 or 72hz isn't going to fix that.

I disagree....I can definitely see a difference using 1080p24, primarily during panning scenes that include text characters.

What equipment are you using?

I know very well how the pulldown works and the theory behind eliminating it, by feeding 24Hz to a TV which can accept it. But I did quite a few tests relating to 24Hz when I first got my FD6010. At times I thought I did see a difference, but enough times the difference seemed to be in favor of the TV doing the pulldown, for me to discount it. In fact, if you read some of the reviewers who actually did like experiments, their reports are similar to my experience.

For what it's worth, in addition to testing with HD-DVD and BR, I have recoded all of my Standard DVD rips to 24fps H.264 MKVs (at constant 16,) so virtually all my movie material is forced to 24fps. Re-encoding this way certainly helped with DVD titles which had not been mastered properly (wrongly flagged, etc.) and I can see a clear improvement for such problem titles.

But, despite the theoretical argument, I still can't honestly say that I see any noticeable improvement from merely outputting 24Hz to the TV. I think it's a testimony to how good modern equipment deals with pulldown, at least in the case of properly mastered material. But if you can the difference, hey, more power to you:-)

The only reason I point this out, is to alleviate any fear and terror in some here, who might feel they are missing out on some ground-breaking innovation.

No it doesn't. The Panasonic pz7XX series do not accept a 24fps signal in any way that could be considered acceptable. I have a pz500 and when I forced 24fps from my PS3 I got the same thing the OP got, an image about 1/3 the size of the screen, located in the upper left corner with all sides cropped.

When you feed these sets 24fps they do a "3:2, 60%reduction, crop edges" pull down. It's unique to the Pannys. ;)

The Panasonic rep should've understood that the OP was asking if the set accepts a 24fps signal and should know that it doesn't.

My Panny fills the screen when doing 3:2 pulldown via my PS3 set at 24fps. :p :D

Set your PS3 to "ON" instead of "Auto" in the BD/DVD Settings menu under the "1080P 24fps" option and let me know what happens. I'd also like to know which model Panasonic you own.

Edit: Nevermind. I see in your profile that you have a 37px50u. Doesn't really apply to a discussion about the pz7XX series.

Set your PS3 to "ON" instead of "Auto" in the BD/DVD Settings menu under the "1080P 24fps" option and let me know what happens. I'd also like to know which model Panasonic you own.

Edit: Nevermind. I see in your profile that you have a 37px50u. Doesn't really apply to a discussion about the pz7XX series.

Yes, I bought the 37" when I first began visiting the forum a couple of years ago and it's now in the living/sitting room, my other display is a Pioneer until Panny begins producing the PF professional model in 58". I haven't changed my profile, no idea how too but that's neither here nor there. I no longer have any of the equipment in my profile except the 37. I would think that the PZ series would be more advanced and be able to apply the 3:2 pulldown more effective than the 50U series? I know the Panny professional series supports 1080p/24, one of the many reasons why it'll be my next display. Maybe you should set your PS3 to Auto instead of On. ;)

When you feed these sets 24fps they do a "3:2, 60%reduction, crop edges" pull down. It's unique to the Pannys. ;)

HAHAHAH too funny:):D:)

If you know it why do you need to prove it to them? Besides, the fact that the set doesn't support 24fps is a minor issue. I would reduce judder (many people don't even notice it) but it's not going to make the movie smoother. Judder really only shows up when the camera is panning across a scene. Being that it's filmed at 24fps it's going to look blurry and viewing it at 48 or 72hz isn't going to fix that.

Well, I have an open support call with them and they are going to call back. And at this time, it's really the point of the matter. It really jerks my chain that I spent all that time on the phone with these yahoos only to find out that it really doesn't support 24fps.

What if I were to say that I only bought the TV because the support people told me it supported 24fps? Now I have a huge problem of unmounting, repackaging, and shipping. This isn't the case but it's this kind of misinformation that leads to these types of problems.

Well, I have an open support call with them and they are going to call back. And at this time, it's really the point of the matter. It really jerks my chain that I spent all that time on the phone with these yahoos only to find out that it really doesn't support 24fps.

What if I were to say that I only bought the TV because the support people told me it supported 24fps? Now I have a huge problem of unmounting, repackaging, and shipping. This isn't the case but it's this kind of misinformation that leads to these types of problems.

Unfortunately, many support people are not a/v enthusiasts and do not bother to learn about the products they sell, this is why I'm so thankful for this forum. These days, you really have to research the products that you buy because retail support people are just cashiers. I have found many times that when I go into a Best Buy, Circuit City or Tweeter, that I know more about the product that the sales person. I know its a pain in the ass but I would send it back and I would tell them that you are returning the display because the support people provided you misinformation, which is unacceptable.

What equipment are you using?40 GB PS3 w/firmware v2.17 --> HDMI --> PRO-150FD.I know very well how the pulldown works and the theory behind eliminating it, by feeding 24Hz to a TV which can accept it. But I did quite a few tests relating to 24Hz when I first got my FD6010. At times I thought I did see a difference, but enough times the difference seemed to be in favor of the TV doing the pulldown, for me to discount it. In fact, if you read some of the reviewers who actually did like experiments, their reports are similar to my experience.I agree, the differences can be very subtle and are not noticeable most of the time. Where I see a difference most is during Blu-ray disc movie segments where the camera pans across a scene &/or with moving text.

A good example is during the early part of Spiderman 3 where Peter Parker is going to see the opening performance of Mary Jane Watson. There is a dark scene outside the theater that pans across a city street to the theater's marquee. The differences regarding the amount of judder are distinct with 1080p24 & the various PureCinema modes used on my PRO-150FD. I am surprised to determine that PC:Smooth rendered a smoother image than PC:Advance.

BTW... I use Spiderman 3 as an example because this movie was included with the purchase of my PS3.

despite the theoretical argument, I still can't honestly say that I see any noticeable improvement from merely outputting 24Hz to the TV. I think it's a testimony to how good modern equipment deals with pulldown, at least in the case of properly mastered material.The end result will always be determined by how well the original content was filmed and then encoded onto Blu-ray disc. There is an old adage within the IT world: Garbage in = Garbage out. High-Def Digest (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/) provides a good summarization regarding the video output quality of movies on Blu-ray disc.The only reason I point this out, is to alleviate any fear and terror in some here, who might feel they are missing out on some ground-breaking innovation.Again, I agree. The difference with video processing between Panasonic & Pioneer is relatively minor. Small enough that most people are not willing to pay the premium to own a Pioneer PDP, which provides the justification to settle for 2nd best.

I haven't changed my profile, no idea how too but that's neither here nor there. I no longer have any of the equipment in my profile except the 37.
It's actually pretty easy. Just click the "UserCP" tab at the top of each page and then click "Edit Profile" from the list on the left.

I would think that the PZ series would be more advanced and be able to apply the 3:2 pulldown more effective than the 50U series? I know the Panny professional series supports 1080p/24, one of the many reasons why it'll be my next display. Maybe you should set your PS3 to Auto instead of On. ;)
Yeah, one would think that if an older model accepts 24fps than the pz7XX models would too. They don't. As far as the PS3 setting goes, "ON" will force 24fps, "Auto" will send it if the PS3 gets the signal over HDMI that the set accepts it, and "OFF" won't send it. In my case "Auto" and "OFF" are the same thing so I just have it set to "OFF."

The upcoming 800/850 models will support 24fps and display them at 48hz. I'm waiting for reviews from AV sites and users to know what the picture looks like when displayed at 48hz.

Well, I have an open support call with them and they are going to call back. And at this time, it's really the point of the matter. It really jerks my chain that I spent all that time on the phone with these yahoos only to find out that it really doesn't support 24fps.
I'm curious to know how this goes. Let us know.

It's actually pretty easy. Just click the "UserCP" tab at the top of each page and then click "Edit Profile" from the list on the left.

Done, thanks.


Yeah, one would think that if an older model accepts 24fps than the pz7XX models would too. They don't. As far as the PS3 setting goes, "ON" will force 24fps, "Auto" will send it if the PS3 gets the signal over HDMI that the set accepts it, and "OFF" won't send it. In my case "Auto" and "OFF" are the same thing so I just have it set to "OFF."

Good to know for future reference, thanks.

The upcoming 800/850 models will support 24fps and display them at 48hz. I'm waiting for reviews from AV sites and users to know what the picture looks like when displayed at 48hz.

I'm looking forward to seeing the advancement that Panny has made in the last year. I'm trying to decide between either the 800/850 or Professional PF model 58" display. The consumer 58" displays are due to hit stores in the Fall, no idea when the professional series is due to hit websites.

... The differences regarding the amount of judder are distinct with 1080p24 & the various PureCinema modes used on my PRO-150FD. I am surprised to determine that PC:Smooth rendered a smoother image than PC:Advance....

I know there is some debate, but I am fairly certain that the TV does 3:3 (converting 24Hz to 72Hz) only in Advance mode. Smooth, AFAIK is simply a Pioneer motion-smoothing processing option, but it does not do 3:3.

So, my point about 24fps and 3:3 being overblown for marketing purposes still stands:-)

I'm curious to know how this goes. Let us know.

Turns out that I'm taking the Samsung Duo player back and replacing it with a PS3. I hooked up a PS3 over the weekend and turned the 24fps mode on and saw the EXACT same problem as before.

The screen is smaller and pushed in the top left corner of the display. Probably because the TV doesn't support 24fps :)

Thanks all for your advice. At least I know for sure now.

Turns out that I'm taking the Samsung Duo player back and replacing it with a PS3. I hooked up a PS3 over the weekend and turned the 24fps mode on and saw the EXACT same problem as before.

The screen is smaller and pushed in the top left corner of the display. Probably because the TV doesn't support 24fps :)

Thanks all for your advice. At least I know for sure now.

You're welcome. I read the pz700/750u owner's thread and you're only the second person I've ever seen, other than myself, post about trying to force 24fps to one of these sets. Many people just assume that it accepts it, and I think there are a few who have a player like the PS3 set to Auto and think they're sending 24fps to the set.

I guess I'm just sort of amazed at how few people really know what happens when you send 24fps to these sets, especially considering how many own them. Blu-ray @ 60hz on this set looks awesome though, so I'm not complaining.