Anything less is uncivilized.

So I guess you don't watch ESPN, ABC or FOX?

Anything less is uncivilized.

imo any hardware sold (eg. appletv) should at least be capable of 1920x1080 so that it can be supported.

starting out with 720p download rentals isn't bad for most people that have hdtv.

this is just a rental business for the start up that first needs to work before it is maxed out for pq. they need to cast a net over the biggest possible consumer base.

imo download has to be fast and easy to use with a lot of content as first priorities. bd rental is the solution for people that cannot live without max pq.

if the download times are horrid and it has little content then nobody will buy in.

imo any hardware sold (eg. appletv) should at least be capable of 1920x1080 so that it can be supported.Why bother to increase the cost of the hardware when it's not even going to be used? Sell even less units at probably even less profit... rent even less movies.

If and when they decide to support 1080p do you really think the $229 Apple TV will still be current hardware? I don't as I'm pretty sure there will be several generations of newer of hardware available even if it supported 1080p.

Either one wants to enjoy (take advantage of) what's available or wait for any number of reasons. I'm getting too old to keep waiting for something that might or might not happen. :)

In my opinion 720p (in and of itself) is probably a very small factor in the quality of the image. There are a ton of many other more important factors such as the encoding and display. Heck more than likely even the display's calibration will have more impact than the difference between 720p and 1080p.

oliverjg you are right "720p download rentals isn't bad for most people that have hdtv". I watched Micheal Clayton last night on XBL and the picture was very good. 720 on XBL falls right between blu ray/HD dvd and Sattelite HD so I am pleased with the pq. As long as anyone watching it don't have a problem then thats all that counts but if you do stick with everything 1080

Why bother to increase the cost of the hardware when it's not even going to be used? Sell even less units at probably even less profit... rent even less movies.

If and when they decide to support 1080p do you really think the $229 Apple TV will still be current hardware? I don't as I'm pretty sure there will be several generations of newer of hardware available even if it supported 1080p.

Either one wants to enjoy (take advantage of) what's available or wait for any number of reasons. I'm getting too old to keep waiting for something that might or might not happen. :)

In my opinion 720p (in and of itself) is probably a very small factor in the quality of the image. There are a ton of many other more important factors such as the encoding and display. Heck more than likely even the display's calibration will have more impact than the difference between 720p and 1080p.

all good points. still, i am not going to rush out and buy hardware that doesn't support 1920x1080... unless it is really cheep so i can throw it away later without caring. this is just my personal perspective which could change if there is A LOT of content available and bd continues with the slow drip of mediocre releases.

imo they should give the hardware away and make money on the rentals (theoretically). do they give free rentals with hardware sale?

oliverjg you are right "720p download rentals isn't bad for most people that have hdtv". I watched Micheal Clayton last night on XBL and the picture was very good. 720 on XBL falls right between blu ray/HD dvd and Sattelite HD so I am pleased with the pq. As long as anyone watching it don't have a problem then thats all that counts but if you do stick with everything 1080

i have watched 100s of bd and hd dvd. also, broadcast hd.

had a 720p projector but my new projector is 1080p.

i don't need 1080p to enjoy the vast majority of content. it is more of a bonus and knowledge that my gear isn't throwing away detail.

what if i had a 1080p camcorder file and wanted to stream it to my pj?

Improved compression and bandwidth will get us to 1080p24 downloads before long.

That said, there's plenty of sports and other content that is produced 720p60, and 720 content should be compressed and delivered as such. As a personal matter, I think 720p60 offers a superior experience compared to 1080i30 for high-motion content on most displays. My preference is for 1080p24 and 720p60 to be the primary HD production formats; interlaced support is important for legacy content, but I think all ongoing production should be in progressive.

That said, I consider 1080p24, 1080i30, and 720p60 as all equally "Full HD."

benwaggoner and Xylon - What are your thoughts on Vudu? They use h.264 high profile and DD+ for their HD stuff...all at 1080p/24.

VUDU uses DD+ but currently their boxes are only HDMI 1.1 so it transcodes the DD+ to DD. It would be nice if they came out with a box that has HDMI 1.3 so we could bitstream the DD+ audio.

I also agree with the OP. Downloads won't replace my blu-ray until it equals or betters it, not just in video, but AUDIO too. Lossless 24-bit, please.

I can't imagine downloads ever replacing Blu-ray, but I have no problem with renting the 720p stuff from Apple. I just wish it was 720p24fps scaled to 1080p24fps. I won't complain when or if Apple goes to 1080p24fps though.

So I guess you don't watch ESPN, ABC or FOX?

Not for movies, no.

I imagine that 1080p will be here but at the bitrates seen on HDM? Not for awhile.

So I guess you don't watch ESPN, ABC or FOX?

NASCAR and golf always look terrible on those stations.

NASCAR and golf always look terrible on those stations.
...and they'd look a LOT worse at the same bitrate in 1080i, due to the lower efficiency encoding of 1080i versus 720p for high-motion content.

From FranscescoP's old 'DU Test' thread I got the impression very few current HD DVD's or BD's really had any significant improvement by using 1080p over 720p resolution. That doesn't mean it's not possible but a sampling of current offerings suggested to me that for download they shouldn't bother if it costs a lot more bandwidth, except for the marketing numbers.

What I'm saying is that if a new service with a proprietary box encoded at 720p but upscaled at the user end to 1080p and then lied about it we probably couldn't even catch them on most currently available highdef DVD offerings. They probably could get away with claiming 1080p if they were careful about it, even on the best displays.

- Tom

From FranscescoP's old 'DU Test' thread I got the impression very few current HD DVD's or BD's really had any significant improvement by using 1080p over 720p resolution. That doesn't mean it's not possible but a sampling of current offerings suggested to me that for download they shouldn't bother if it costs a lot more bandwidth, except for the marketing numbers.

What I'm saying is that if a new service with a proprietary box encoded at 720p but upscaled at the user end to 1080p and then lied about it we probably couldn't even catch them on most currently available highdef DVD offerings. They probably could get away with claiming 1080p if they were careful about it, even on the best displays.

Yeah, that's probably true.

I'd certainly take a Xbox Live Marketplace 720p upsampled over most MPEG-2 based broadcast 1080i of the same content. More detail doesn't do you a lot of good when that detail is block artifacts :).

Well Blu-Ray will still have a lot of life until the downloadables catch up in quality. I'm not interested at this point as I agree anything less is uncivilized.

We are probably 3-4 years from that happening. I'm not getting too excited about this yet, but I am looking forward to high quality hd on demand.

Anything less is uncivilized.

Does anyone broadcast in 1920x1080i in the USA anymore? Or is it all 1440x1080i @1.33:1 now?

Just wondering...

Does anyone broadcast in 1920x1080i in the USA anymore? Or is it all 1440x1080i @1.33:1 now?

Just wondering...
There's still plenty of ATSC in full 1920x1080, but all the cable/sat stuff is all down to 1280x1080 AFAIK now.

Some Time Warner Cable HD channels still at 1920 x 1080 17 mbps. OTA too like CBS.

VUDU uses DD+ but currently their boxes are only HDMI 1.1 so it transcodes the DD+ to DD. It would be nice if they came out with a box that has HDMI 1.3 so we could bitstream the DD+ audio.