I posted this in HDDVD area, but no responses yet, so I thought I'd give it a shot here.

Equipment - Toshiba A35 HDDVD and Onkyo 604 receiver

I don't have a meter yet, so I thought I could use the speaker level settings from my Onkyo's Audyssey 2EQ calibration to get close on the A35's settings. Problem is the A35 only gives me -dB settings and my Onkyo has both + and - dB settings.

Here is what I did, is it correct?

..........Onkyo .........A35
.......Calibration .....Settings
L ........+1dB ..........0dB
C ........+1dB ..........0dB
R ........+1dB ..........0dB
SL ........0dB .........-1dB
SR ........0dB .........-1dB
Sub .....-1dB .........-2dB

Most likely, what you did is not correct. I presume your A35 is connected via an analog multichannel connection. The ONKYO's Audyssey calibration settings (level trims, bass and time management settings) are most likely NOT applied to its analog multichannel inputs. You must calibrate the player's multichannel analog connection to the receiver manually. The settings necessary to calibrate the player properly will be completely independent of the settings that Audyssey uses for the receiver.

You can use the player's internal level trims or you can use the ONKYO's own level trims for its multichannel analog inputs (if it allows you to adjust those). Or even both, actually, as long as the calibration is correct. If the player has no internal tones, you will need a calibration DVD (which may not be a bad idea even if the player does have tones). Be aware that most (but not all) receivers do not apply their bass or time management settings to their analog multichannel inputs, either. So you must rely upon the player's bass and time management capabilities, however crude they may be, when using the player's analog multichannel connection to the receiver.

The upshot is that you MUST calibrate the analog multichannel connection from the player to the receiver manually and independently, and most likely only the player's own bass and time management settings can and will be applied to the analog multichannel connection.

Thanks for the quick response!

I believe that you are correct, the Audyssey settings are most likely NOT applied to the analog multichannel inputs. So what I did, as a quick shortcut, is take the results from my receiver calibration (speaker distance, crossover, etc) and input them into my A35. But on the level settings, I ran into a snag because the A35 only allows me to adjust from -1dB to -12dB and the Onkyo had some +dB results from it's calibration.

So, I used 0dB as a reference point on the A35 and adjusted some of the channels down from there. In theory, it should be close. But my gut is telling me "probably not," and I won't know until I finally break down and get a SPL meter.

A Radio Shack SLM would be the easy solution.

Kal

But my gut is telling me "probably not," and I won't know until I finally break down and get a SPL meter.Theoretically, that seems correct, but there may be other variables involved. Best bet is to independently calibrate the multichannel analog connection. Does your player provide internal test tones?

...... Does your player provide internal test tones?

Yes it does. Well, not tones. Instead, it's giving me a noise signal, I think it's pink or white noise. I'm not sure what the difference is between those two, but I'm getting one of them. It cycles thru each channel once, then I can start it again.

I'm guessing that I could somehow use a calibration DVD too. I downloaded some test tones a while back, but I don't think I can dictate which channel to play the tone on.

Yes it does. Well, not tones. Instead, it's giving me a noise signal, I think it's pink or white noise. Yeah, that's what I mean. They usually are pink/white noise, nowadays. Used to be tones.


I'm guessing that I could somehow use a calibration DVD too.A calibration DVD can be a bit better than the "noise" as there is more on the disc than just "noise". Something like AVIA is much better for the subwoofer calibration as the "noise" is usually not so great for calibrating the sub channel. There are also, usually, video calibration tools on the DVDs as well


I downloaded some test tones a while back, but I don't think I can dictate which channel to play the tone on.Yeah, those aren't so useful for calibrating.

So, if I understand this correctly, I'm looking for the same SPL from each channel including the sub, and it should be somewhat stable thru various frequencies. Does sound about right?

So, if I understand this correctly, I'm looking for the same SPL from each channel including the sub, and it should be somewhat stable thru various frequencies. Does sound about right?No. It's most likely not going to be stable through various frequencies. That's why the calibration "tones" are white noise. They are a mix of frequencies.

Ok, so with the white noise, SPL should be about the same for all channels, except the sub which doesn't do well with the mix of freqs. Some single, low freq tones would be better for the sub and AVIA would be a good source for those. Does the disc dictate which channel the sound is going to, like surround sound in a movie?

Ok, so with the white noise, SPL should be about the same for all channels, except the sub which doesn't do well with the mix of freqs.Yes, that is pretty much correct.


Some single, low freq tones would be better for the sub............Well, unless your room and sub placement is perfect (it's NOT) the SPL is going to vary with frequency, sometimes dramatically, so they're not useful for calibration. Individual frequencies can help you flatten your room's response, although it can be tedious to do this with individual tones. If you really want to flatten your room's response properly, an analytical software solution and EQ are usually necessary.

Individual frequencies around your crossover point can be useful for adjusting the phase properly, especially if your sub has a continuously variable phase control.


[.........and AVIA would be a good source for those.I can't remember if AVIA has individual tones or not. The newer version may. But you don't really need individual tones to calibrate. If you would like a link to some tones, I can provide you with that.

AVIA has special subwoofer calibration method and tones that works quite a bit differently than simple white noise. The tone slowly moves back and forth from speaker to sub at the proper frequencies allowing you to adjust the sub's output to be identical to that of the speakers.


Does the disc dictate which channel the sound is going to, like surround sound in a movie?Yes, the disc is encoded so that the tones and/or noise behave properly for whichever speaker/sub you are calibrating.

The disc also contains tones/noise that allow you to check phasing between different speaker sets as well as some sweeps across different frequency ranges that allow you to hear your system's bass management behavior as well as your uneven room response.

Just so it is clear it is Pink Noise. From the Rane website Quote"pink noise Pink noise is a random noise source characterized by a flat amplitude response per octave band of frequency (or any constant percentage bandwidth), i.e., it has equal energy, or constant power, per octave. Passing white noise through a filter having a 3 dB/octave roll-off rate creates pink noise. See white noise discussion for details. Due to this roll-off, pink noise sounds less bright and richer in low frequencies than white noise. Since pink noise has the same energy in each 1/3-octave band, it is the preferred sound source for many acoustical measurements due to the critical band concept of human hearing. "end

http://rane.com/par-p.html

White noise can be damaging to speakers.

Just so it is clear it is Pink Noise.Thanks. I left that sorta open earlier in the thread as I couldn't remember which it was. Than I just started saying "white noise". I stand corrected. :)

Thanks sivadselim. Great info, especially on the many uses of AVIA. Looks like I can actually rent it from Netflix, how cool is that. Now, I just need to pick up a meter.

Thanks again.

Looks like I can actually rent it from Netflix, how cool is that.Well...........................

It's OK, I suppose, but if you're like most of us, and you just can't stop futzing around, you'll end up wishing you had a copy of your own. My copy does sit unused for long periods of time, but it still gets pulled out every once in a while for some (probably unneeded) tweaking. :o