I have been listening to and collecting SACDs for years. I've never really tried DVD-Audio. I've come across some information recently that suggests that DVD-AUDIO is better and more accurate than SACD.

For those of you who have a lot of experience with both, what has been your impression?

I suggest doing a search, but there is no real technical reason for them to sound differently from one another (in real world terms).

The problem with DVD-A is it is not as convenient to play as sometimes a video display is required.

Another point is that DVD-A and SACD really don't overlap all that much...SACD has a small rock catalog, and large jazz and classical catalogs. DVD-A is the opposite.

I have been listening to and collecting SACDs for years. I've never really tried DVD-Audio. I've come across some information recently that suggests that DVD-AUDIO is better and more accurate than SACD.

For those of you who have a lot of experience with both, what has been your impression?

I have never been able to compare the same title on both formats. There are not many titles that were released on both. I seriously doubt you will find much difference in audio quality. The most significant differences are associated with features. I could give a list of strengths and weaknesses for each format but they would have very little to do with audio quality.

If there were enough titles to produce a format war, that would be great. I think we all know both formats are dying. If you really want high resolution music, you need both formats and simply buy what's available for each.

I would say Both sound Good wish the Format war was going Strong again!! to Have Both Formats die really Sucks!! Altho Some DVD-A's are going to be Very Hard to Find and if you do find them you are going to have to pay a Premium Price.

I have never been able to compare the same title on both formats. There are not many titles that were released on both. I seriously doubt you will find much difference in audio quality. The most significant differences are associated with features. I could give a list of strengths and weaknesses for each format but they would have very little to do with audio quality.Amen. I have heard a dozen or more titles in both formats and have not found any consistent advantages in sound quality. The major distinction is in the available repertoire and operational issues.

I have Steely Dan's Gaucho in both formats and my original intention was to try and compare them. But someone here (easily) convinced me to not even try doing the comparison. There are just too many variables involved. Even if one could control all the variables on the playback end of things, and even though the mix may be identical, there would still probably be differences in the mastering. And even if you COULD hear a difference, attributing that difference specifically to the format would probably be foolish.

I also have Gaucho on both formats along with Beck's "Sea Change". I don't think there was much difference between the sacd and dvd-audio. They both sound great. I bought the dvd-audio version of both of these discs even though I already had the sacd version because dvd-audio is easier to make back-ups. With sacd it's a long process of capturing the wav files from your dvd player hooked up to a computer.

My impression has been that BOTH DVD-Audio and SACD offer incredible resolution and dynamic range IF the mastering is competent enough to take advantage of the formats. IMO, the mastering is almost always more important than whether the release is DVD-A or SACD, especially in this day and age.

I admittedly do not own the same album on DVD-A and SACD. I do have a few DTS-CDs and the corresponding SACD or DVD-A, but sometimes the mixes aren't the same (original quad vs. new 5.1 remix).

I am not a fanboy of a format, I am a fanboy of the concept of high-resolution, dynamic surround sound. Whatever format/medium gets me to that final destination is what I support. I proudly support BOTH SACD and DVD-A. My humble recommendation: don't get caught up in the format, buy for the end result.

Best,
Josh

actually the format war was rendered somewhat irrelevant because of companies like Pioneer, Denon and Oppo who produce reasonably affordable and good sounding players which play both formats - sometimes equally well.


I'm not format dogmatic - despite the sig (SACD is being well served by http://www.sa-cd.net) there's music I enjoy in both formats

Thanks for the responses everyone. Personally, I don't listen to surround sound - I'm into the formats for hirez stereo.

Keep the comments coming....

I'm format agnostic too. I own many of both. It's likely a waste of time to debate the sonic advantages, due to the myriad of variables either side could possess.

However, since you said you are mostly a 2 channel (stereo) guy, then this next point is relevant. There are many DVD-Audio players that output hirez (up to 24/192) 2 channel DVD-A over coax/toslink, so as to use a dedicated DAC to improve the conversion and analog stage signal path afterwards. Players like the inexpensive Oppo 980 ($169) can handle all your 2 channel (SACD/DVD-A, redbook) needs via analog outs, or send the redbook and DVD-Audio to a higher-end DAC via coax/toslink. SACD cannot do this. It's not a knock, just a fact. HDMI can be used in this specific Oppo 980 example, too, but my main point was that stereo DVD-Audio, albeit proprietary lossless MLP (packed PCM) can still be sent digitally via good ole' coax/toslink, thereby creating a nice upgrade path. First spend $169 for the Oppo and get treated to B+ sound via the analogs, then later invest in a nice dedicated 24/192 DAC (examples are Monarchy tube dacs, Benchmark, etc.) and take your hirez DVD-A to a whole 'nother level. I would never have argued this point earlier in the format's history, as Meridian and the DVD-Audio gang claimed it could not be sent across such rudimentary paths as coax, but soon cheap Far Eastern players started showing up that could accomplish this, and voila.

I agree with ted_b, I think. The dvd-a's have an audio setup in the on-screen menu that you can choose to play stereo only, instead of multi-channel, if you so wish (I think that is what he said :>), I'm a little dense sometimes when it comes to using the different numbers/formats for explaining some of this stuff. I like to listen to m-c most of the time, but sometimes, I like to just listen to the disk in stereo, since my l and r mains are the "good" speakers.

Frank

ps, I only have a very inexpensive Pioneer universal dvd player (about $130.00), but it does a pretty decent job, especially when I haven't ever compared it to higher quality players.

There are many DVD-Audio players that output hirez (up to 24/192) 2 channel DVD-A over coax/toslink..............But very few DVD-As are not copyright protected so as to prevent this. I have many DVD-As and VERY few can be passed at a rate higher than 48kHz via toslink. With the few DVD-As that allow it, yes, up to 192kHz 2-channel material (if 192kHz material is even present on the disc) can be passed via toslink, but of the ~50 DVD-As that I own, I can almost count on one hand those that can be passed at a rate higher than 48kHz.

I agree with ted_b, I think. The dvd-a's have an audio setup in the on-screen menu that you can choose to play stereo only, instead of multi-channel, if you so wish (I think that is what he said :>)................No, that's not what he said. That a video device is necessary to navigate DVD-As is not an advantage over SACD, especially in a 2-channel setup that is not part of a HT. Yes, many DVD-As can be navigated without the video display, but it is cumbersome, at best, as there is, unfortunately, no uniformity or consistency as to how DVD-As are organized navigation-wise. And with a player that has a limited front panel display, unless one is familiar with how a particular DVD-A is organized, navigating DVD-As can be an exercise in blind button pushing. And there are many DVD-As that simply defy navigation without an on-screen video display. Even when a player is set up for strictly 2-channel playback, not all DVD-As default to the 2-channel hirez tracks. In fact, many don't.

But very few DVD-As are not copyright protected so as to prevent this. I have many DVD-As and VERY few can be passed at a rate higher than 48kHz via toslink. With the few DVD-As that allow it, yes, up to 192kHz 2-channel material (if 192kHz material is even present on the disc) can be passed via toslink, but of the ~50 DVD-As that I own, I can almost count on one hand those that can be passed at a rate higher than 48kHz.

I thought so too, but found that for whatever reason the MLP watermark/ copyright/proprietary PPCM (I know those are inaccurate descriptions of the copyright issue) was "hacked" on these players somehow. List some ones you think are problematic and I'll see if I own any and can make the Oppo output via digital. Just a thought. I assumed it would just be Classic HDADs, a few Cheskys, etc. But no....Steely Dan, Beck, REM, Donald Fagen, etc. Haven't found one that throws up.

I have a small collection of both and don't look at what the format is when choosing/playing one. The remastering/mixing has a far greater effect.

I thought so too, but found that for whatever reason the MLP watermark/ copyright/proprietary PPCM (I know those are inaccurate descriptions of the copyright issue) was "hacked" on these players somehow. List some ones you think are problematic and I'll see if I own any and can make the Oppo output via digital. Just a thought. I assumed it would just be Classic HDADs, a few Cheskys, etc. But no....Steely Dan, Beck, REM, Donald Fagen, etc. Haven't found one that throws up.What receiver orpre/pro are you using? Does it tell you the bitrate of the material it is receiving? My DENON 3803 shows on its front display the bitrate of the material it is receiving from a DVD-A via toslink. Usually it is 48kHz. A few will pass at the higher bitrates that are present on the discs. But most are converted to 48kHz by the player. If you have an OPPO 980, it specifically says that this is what it does in the manual.

What Donald Fagen are you referring to, BTW? The 2-channel tracks on Nightfly and Kamakiriad are only 48kHz to begin with, so those, obviously, aren't passing at 192kHz.

? I never said it would upsample, just pass hirez unaltered (up to 24/192). My Oppo passes 192k to my Onkyo 885 (and shows on Onkyo front panel) for things like Steely Dan Everything Must Go, for example (which is well-known to be mislabeled on the back cover as 24/96). I don't use the 885 as the DAC, mind you, just for info purposes. I use the Modwright tubed 24/96 DAC from the Transporter. I make sure to set the Oppo for 96k max so the TP's DAC can see it. The first time I tried it and got no sound was on Steely Dan's EMG, and thinking it was 24/96 was not worried about the Oppo being set too high. No sound. Come to find out it's passing 24/192 and the TP DAC was unable to convert. Once set for 24/96 we were hearing beautiful hirez through the Modwright tubed glory (24/96 through that DAC was wayyyy better than 24/192 through Oppo's own dac or the Onkyo, of course..)

? I never said it would upsample, just pass hirez unaltered (up to 24/192). My Oppo passes 192k to my Onkyo 885 (and shows on front panel) for things like Steely Dan Everything Must Go, for example (which is well-known to be mislabeled on the back cover as 24/96).Everything Must Go has 192kHz 2-channel tracks, they're copyright protected and will only pass as 48kHz. Two Against Nature, Gaucho, and Morph the Cat all have 96kHz 2-channel tracks.

I had an OPPO980 for the demo period and I know how it behaves. One thing it will NOT do is display the bitrate of DVD-As onscreen (on the TV). So, unless your DVD-A specifically states the bitrates on the outside label, you can't really tell the bitrate of the DVD-A that is in the OPPO.

As far as your receiver reporting 192kHz bitrates, it will do that with a non-copyright-protected disc that DOES have 192kHz 2-channel tracks. Whether your receiver is capable of upsampling what comes into it via toslink, I don't know. Perhaps that is what it is doing. Do you have an HDMI connection from the player to the receiver, btw?

I'll go through all my DVD-As, list them all, and tell you which ones are not copyright protected, as well as their bitrates, both multichannel and 2-channel.

EDIT: Yes, you are correct Everything Must Go IS mislabeled. I have changed my post to reflect that.

Everything Must Go has 192kHz 2-channel tracks, they're copyright protected and will only pass as 48kHz. Two Against Nature, Gaucho, and Morph the Cat all have 96kHz 2-channel tracks.

I had an OPPO980 for the demo period and I know how it behaves. One thing it will NOT do is display the bitrate of DVD-As onscreen (on the TV). So, unless your DVD-A specifically states the bitrates on the outside label, you can't really tell the bitrate of the DVD-A that is in the OPPO.

As far as your receiver reporting 192kHz bitrates, it will do that with a non-copyright-protected disc that DOES have 192kHz 2-channel tracks. Whether your receiver is capable of upsampling what comes into it via toslink, I don't know. Perhaps that is what it is doing. Do you have an HDMI connection from the player to the receiver, btw?

I'll go through all my DVD-As, list them all, and tell you which ones are not copyright protected, as well as their bitrates, both multichannel and 2-channel.

EDIT: Yes, you are correct Everything Must Go IS mislabeled. I have changed my post to reflect that.

Not sure of your point. Are you saying I'm lying when i tell you that my Oppo 980 is passing 192k of Steely Dan's EMG??? I know what I'm doing. The Oppo is in no way limited to 48k via optical/coax outs; don't know why yours was. My PCM is set for 96k (was initially set for 192k but bumped it down as per earlier story). My pre/pro 885 does not upsample, nor does the Oppo. It simple tells me (via it's front panel, not the Oppo's!) what is being presented at it's digital coax in, and for EMG it is either 96k or 192k depending on the Oppo's setup menu (page 46 of the Oppo manual; choices are 48/96/192). Sorry you had issues with your Oppo demo. Mine's a peach. :)

No need to list all your DVD-A's guy; just a couple you think are troublesome. I'm not trying to prove anything here but that the Oppo (and other players) can output hirez 24/192 via many/most of these up-until-now-thought-to-be-supposedly-copyrighted discs....EMG is my first exhibit A.

Not sure of your point. Are you saying I'm lying when i tell you that my Oppo 980 is passing 192k of Steely Dan's EMG??? I know what I'm doing.No, I'm not saying "you're lying."


The Oppo is in no way limited to 48k via optical/coax outs................No, it's not, as long as the disc is unprotected. With unprotected tracks it can pass 192kHz.


It simple tells me (via it's front panel, not the Oppo's!) what is being presented at it's digital coax in, and for EMG it is either 96k or 192k depending on the Oppo's setup menu (page 46 of the Oppo manual; choices are 48/96/192). Sorry you had issues with your Oppo demo. Mine's a peach.My point about the OPPO's onscreen display was that it doesn't provide any info about a discs sampling rate, so if you have a disc that is unlabeled as to its sampling rate, you can't really know what it is. Unless, of course, you rely upon the pre/pro's display, which will not tell you anything about the multichannel tracks.

The issue I had with the OPPO, and the reason I returned it, was that, when utilizing its analog outs, it doesn't bass manage any DVD-A tracks that are 96kHz and higher, multichannel or 2-channel.


No need to list all your DVD-A's guy; just a couple you think are troublesome. I'm not trying to prove anything here but that the Oppo (and other players) can output hirez 24/192 via many/most of these up-until-now-thought-to-be-supposedly-copyrighted discs....EMG is my first exhibit A.I'm not trying to prove anything either; I'm actually VERY curious, now. I can't find anything online really that confirms the player can (accidentally) pass protected content at its native resolution (i.e. 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz 192kHz, etc.). I did stumble across some of your posts in various forums regarding it, though. I saw that you, at one time, were pretty emphatic that you could NOT pass the high resolutions via toslink and that there was some surprise and confusion on your part when you first realized that you could (maybe) pass it and why your 885 was displaying certain discs as 192kHz, 96kHz, etc.. Have you tried DVD-As that you know are NOT 96kHz or 192kHz? Pat Metheny's Imaginary Day has 88.2kHz 2-channel tracks. Neil Young's On the Beach is a 176.4kHz 2-channel-only disc that is protected (in my hands, anyway). I saw that you mentioned Sea Change was labeled as 88.2kHz but displayed as 96kHz with your 885. Unfortunately my Sea Change is SACD, otherwise I would check this for you.

I'm wondering if your 885, for some reason, doesn't display the sampling rate it is receiving, properly. Do you have access to a friend's receiver that displays sampling rates on its front panel?

I'm usually pretty thorough, and I am pretty certain I examined the OPPO's behavior as far as what it could pass via toslink as I actually thought that maybe it WOULD pass higher resolutions than 48kHz via toslink. I have since returned the 980, but my curiosity has been piqued and I'm actually wondering if I should re-order one. :o

I've been going through my DVD-As just to see exactly what they DO contain and what exactly CAN be passed (with my current DENON player). In addition to discovering (or confirming) what you said about EMG's 2-channel tracks being mislabeled as 96kHz when they're really 192kHz, I discovered that Kamakiriad is also mislabeled as 48kHz when, in fact, all its tracks are 96kHz.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be confrontational. I would just like to know what the player is doing. It would surprise me if it can bypass the copyright protection. I guess I (or you) could email OPPO and ask. They usually respond pretty quickly. They may be a little peeved with me as I have been pretty vocal about the bass management error.

If you go to OPPO's site, in their FAQs, HERE (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/dv980h_support.asp), there is a question about passing DVD-A and SACD via toslink and they clearly state that it won't pass protected content. Of course, they could be wrong.

I'll try Neil or Pat Metheny and let you know what happens. And yes, My fave DF album, Kamakiriad, is also mislabeled. Thanks for the nice response, btw.

Ted

I'll try Neil or Pat Metheny and let you know what happens. And yes, My fave DF album, Kamakiriad, is also mislabeled. Thanks for the nice response, btw.But if those don't display as 88.2 or 176.4, and instead display mistakenly as 96 or 192, we still won't really know what the player is passing. I know the player isn't upsampling. What it is actually "supposed" to do with protected material is downsample it to 48kHz.


As an aside, and more in line with the topic of this thread, one thing that I have further confirmed for myself is the unfortunate lack of uniformity in the way that DVD-A discs are organized track and group-wise. They're a real mess.

So, I set up my 885 to have the Oppo coax into coax3 and set the input as "cd" so I would make sure the HDMI audio wasn't being measured, etc. After making sure the hirez layer was being selected I checked the output of Walk On, cut 1 on Neil's On The Beach classic DVD-Audio disc. Sure enough the 885 reads "176.4khz" from the coax input3 (The Oppo's LPCM was set to 192k for this experiment. I reset it to 96k so I can hear 24/96 On The Beach via coax to my Transporter 24/96 DAC). Call it exhibit B (although now I wish my TP's DAC was 24/192). It sounds glorious in all it's Neil-ness. Neil Young and Dan Wright's tube analog stage....ahh, life is good.

Pat Metheny is next.

Ted

Pat Metheny's Imaginary Day reads "88.2khz" on the 885, via Oppo coax. :)

I like the surround layer, though, so I won't spend much time soaking this nice 2 channel layer in.....or maybe I will. :)

And eys, I agree that DVD-A's group layer navigation practices are all over the board, from on-the-fly selection via "group" buttons to audio select to needing a video menu to hitting play when the drawer is open. What a travesty.

Hey, ted_b, just curious, you can't listen to the DVD-As that don't have 2-channel tracks via your DAC, correct? Like ELP - Brain Salad Surgery or Bela Fleck - Tales from the Acoustic Planet. And I just realized the Beatles - LOVE DVD-A lacks 2-channel DVD-A tracks, too.

Just for shits-n-giggles, have you ever listened to track 4 of EMG's multichannel DVD-A tracks (Godwhacker) via the toslink connection (DAC or processor), with only the front 2 channels being passed?

The best format was hybrid SACD because it didn't require a video display for playback and it had backward compatibility for cd players. If your player was compatible it even had song titles for the player's display. Sound quality for the most part was equal between the two formats. Some titles do sound different on the respective mediums for the same release but this has been mostly attributed to mastering differences.

The best format was hybrid SACD because it didn't require a video display for playback and it had backward compatibility for cd players.

Well, what if you wanted visuals with your music? Or the greater range of offerings you can get on a DVD-A (several versions of the music, lots of bonus tracks, music videos)? What if you wanted to rip the contents of the DVD-a to your hard drive to archive? Only DVD-A allows for that.

It's tough to choose really....but I would be leery of comments like the above quoted. Both had significant advantages and disadvantages but no format really provided significantly different audio quality. Best choice is to straddle the line like many of us and hold your breath until bluray audio makes its debut.....

Well, what if you wanted visuals with your music? Or the greater range of offerings you can get on a DVD-A (several versions of the music, lots of bonus tracks, music videos)? What if you wanted to rip the contents of the DVD-a to your hard drive to archive? Only DVD-A allows for that. OK. I don't need any of that.

It's tough to choose really....but I would be leery of comments like the above quoted. Both had significant advantages and disadvantages but no format really provided significantly different audio quality. Best choice is to straddle the line like many of us and hold your breath until bluray audio makes its debut.....Really, what it comes down to is repertoire. Depending on your interests and tastes, you prefer one or the other or both but, of course, with a universal player, that is no problem, either.

What if you wanted to rip the contents of the DVD-a to your hard drive to archive? Only DVD-A allows for that.

Yes, one advantage of DVD-A for me is that I can play DVD-A MLP (not just DTS/DD) on my PC DVD drives and the best I can ever hope to do with SACD is the redbook CD layer, which often cannot compete with older pressings and certainly isn't 5.1! Further still, until only recently, if you wanted to hear hi-rez surround in your car, it had to be DVD-A. To this day, I know of no car which supports SACD via a factory-installed option (not saying one doesn't exist, but I only hear of DVD-A systems being available as factory options). You have to buy an aftermarket Sony player for SACD in the car, which is better than what we had a year or two ago. . .nothing!

I just picked up Marvin Gaye's Let's Get It On and I had the option of buying the SACD or the DVD-A. Not only was the DVD-A a couple of dollars cheaper, but I knew I'd be able to enjoy the 5.1 mix in multiple locations. If I wanted a *GASP* MP3 downmix of the DD layer I can do that as well for portability, though this is far less important obviously.

I'm just crazy enough about this hobby that I'd love to own both versions if I end up liking the disc, but my wishlist is still very long and before I start duplicating I want to grab what I can before they are all gone, whichever format!

Best,
Josh

Hey, ted_b, just curious, you can't listen to the DVD-As that don't have 2-channel tracks via your DAC, correct? Like ELP - Brain Salad Surgery or Bela Fleck - Tales from the Acoustic Planet. And I just realized the Beatles - LOVE DVD-A lacks 2-channel DVD-A tracks, too.

Just for shits-n-giggles, have you ever listened to track 4 of EMG's multichannel DVD-A tracks (Godwhacker) via the toslink connection (DAC or processor), with only the front 2 channels being passed?

I listen to multichannel through Oppo's HDMI (or my Modwright Denon 3910 via analog, but the Onkyo 5.1 analog ins aren't nearly as musical as the HDMI interface). I have a dedicated 5.1 music setup (separate from 7.1 movies, although the fropnt three are the same). It's what I mainly use hirez for, frankly. Most of my 2 channel listening is via redbook ripped to SqueezeCenter, played through the Modwright Transporter.

No, I've not heard Godwhacker with only the fronts on. Weird, but I'm game.

My DENON 3803 shows on its front display the bitrate of the material it is receiving from a DVD-A via toslink. Usually it is 48kHz. You mean sampling rate?

Ted B. So you find 2ch DVD-A better with the outboard DAC , (even when the sampling rate is turncated to half in some cases), compared to the Onk 885?

I just love my Sony car SACD multi channel radio; it puts a huge smile on my face whenever I pop in a great multi-channel SACD. It also plays DD and DTS multi-channel DVD-A disks but it sure is a pain to navigate most DVD-A disks and some just won't start without the players remote in hand.

If you appreciate hi-rez music you really ought to have both SACD and DVD-A. Although there are some recordings common to both formats, most are not. So, if you wish to assemble a collection of music on hi-rez that is only poor in quantity, go for both. Otherwise, by picking just one, your collection will be pathetic in quanityt (classical on SACD is the only exception where selection is quite good, but I not a fan unfortunately).

Ted B. So you find 2ch DVD-A better with the outboard DAC , (even when the sampling rate is turncated to half in some cases), compared to the Onk 885?

Yes I do, but it's an unfair comparison. My Modwright Transporter (even just the DAC and tube analog stage mod portion) is way more $$ than the Oppo or Onkyo DAC footprint. So a very high quality 24/96 is much much preferable to an average sounding 24/176.4 or 24/192. Neither Oppo nor the 885 are known for, or were purchased for, their analog stages.

FYI ted_b. I sent an email to OPPO asking about the player's capabilities. Here is the email correspondence:



Hi,

I have heard rumors that the 980 can pass copyright protected high resolution 2-channel DVD-A content at its native resolution (i.e. 96kHz, 192kHz) via a toslink connection. Is this true?

Thank you very much,
"me"


This is true, but you will only be able to obtain 2.0 Stereo at a maximum sampling of 16-bit/192KHz.

Best Regards,
Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.


Thank you for your reply.

So, the sampling rate of the audio is maintained while the bitrate is downsampled from 24-bit to 16-bit, correct?

Thanks again,
"me"


That is correct.

Best Regards,
Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.

Interesting. Then I guess 16/96 via a tube DAC sounds pretty good to my ears. Sounds like a weird response though....why downsample to 16 bit? Oh well, it explains both sides (copyright and why resolution is showing as 192k). I'm gonna investigate further and see if there is any way to determine bit rate to the TP or 885.

Sounds like a weird response though....why downsample to 16 bit?Yeah, that's why I asked for confirmation.


I'm gonna investigate further and see if there is any way to determine bit rate to the TP or 885.My DENON will only show bitrate incidentally for "DTS 96/24".

16-bit/192KHz - isn't it just like the output of an oversampling (or upsampling?) CD player?

16-bit/192KHz - isn't it just like the output of an oversampling (or upsampling?) CD player?
But nothing is "upsampled" if the track is 192kHz to begin with.

i know that, what I meant was - it shouldn't be out of the ordinary for a SPDI/F interface to carry such a signal

i know that, what I meant was - it shouldn't be out of the ordinary for a SPDI/F interface to carry such a signal

We're not surprised SP/DIF can carry it; we're surprised that the Oppo 980 would "down convert" from 24/192 to 16/192. Seems a weird combo.

i know that, what I meant was - it shouldn't be out of the ordinary for a SPDI/F interface to carry such a signalS/PDIF can carry that much info, but most DVD-As are (supposedly) copyright protected. That the player can pass the 2-channel tracks of DVD-As at their native resolution (at least the sampling rate, anyway) is what is surprising (to me). Although, knowing now that it is only @ 16bit sorta diminishes the amusement.

(LOOL, we all put the "/" in SPDIF in a different place :D )

o well I suppose they downconvert to get around the legal issue of putting out hirez PCM over SPDIF (i've decided to do away with the /)

That's troublesome to me. Down sampling bit depth, is definitely rubbing resolution IMO, provided that the original recording was 20 or 24 bit begin with, and wasn't up sampled.
Of course the Oppo won't do this via HDMI, my prefered way of hooking it up to my Integra.

i wonder if this has something to do with what penteo mentioned - above the 16bits all the values are FFs anyway

Yeah but then Hi-res would be a hoax. Anything above CD res is a waste of space and bandwidth?