Hey guys. Hopefully somebody can help me out here.

My parents (well into their 60's), just bought a DVD recorder to replace an old VCR that was used to record my stepmother's favorite soap. It's the only thing they record, and are lamenting the old VCR dying.

However, in an attempt to somewhat enter this century they decided to buy a DVD recorder to replace the VCR. Off to Wal-Mart and they return with a ZC320MW3 Magnavox recorder.

Well, unfortunately, the TV they're using only has the old F coaxial style connector. No RCAs or anything. Well, the DVD recorder isn't compatible with that, and since they're in their 60's they're pretty stubborn and want this thing to work. Several trips to Best Buy, WalMart, and hours on the phone with Magnavox customer support, where they've gotten a different answer every time, has made them dig their heels in.

So, my question is, what do they need in order to make this thing work? The DVD recorder does not have a built in tuner that I know of (once again conflicting information from customer support). So, I'm going to assume it doesn't.

What they want is very simply to run the cable coaxial through the DVD recorder just like their old VCR. They don't have a cable box (as it costs money), and they have almost violently told me to shove off when suggesting they get Tivo, which has a monthly fee.

Hopefully, there's an answer here, and it's cheap. I've done some research, and found various tuners, and RF converters, but want to make sure I suggest the right products. Whatever it is, I'll probably end up buying it all for them so they sleep easy at night, and not worry about the digital Gods coming down and smiting them in their sleep because their TVs are old.

If the dvd recorder does not have a tuner, and they don't have a cable box, then they will NOT be able to record anything. They will need a recorder with a tv tuner that will tune in analog channels, and later free over the air digital cable channels that cable companies will still be required to provide after the digital changeover next February.

So, this is a take it back situation. No way around it-that isn't unnecessarily complicated.

Here's a Panasonic dvd recorder that does have the digital tuner that will allow for reception of free over the air digital cable channels available on the cable, plus regular analog channels that will continue to be transmitted after next years switch.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5715956

A more expensive model, that includes a vcr
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Panasonic-DMR-EZ48V-DVD-Recorder-VCR-Combo-DMREZ48VK/sem/rpsm/oid/206008/catOid/-13255/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

An a factory refurbished model, a bit cheaper...
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Philips-DVDR3505-37-DVD-Player-Recorder-Refurbished-DVDR3505-37B/sem/rpsm/oid/208455/catOid/-12876/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

With an older tv, there are small devices-darnit, I'm drawing a blank on what they're called, that allow you to plug in the video/audio cables from dvd players and recorders and such, into them, and then connect to the tv. I'm sure someone will see this and they us know what they're called. They can be bought just about anywhere you'd buy a dvd player. Walmart, Radio Shack, etc.

Your folks might be candidates for a DVDR with a Hard Disk Drive (HDD), like the Philips DVDR3575H/37. Altho that's a really "modern" technical device in recording, it is, in the end, the very simplest way to record shows for watching later. They won't have to worry about "media" (tapes, DVD discs, etc.).

Check out this post on the advantages of a HDD in a recorder (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12298346&postcount=7), then click the link at the bottom of the page for a list of other subjects, and where to get a "Factory Refreshed" unit directly from Philips for $199 w/ free shipping.

With any DVDR, you'd still have to figure out how to get two inputs into the RF-only TV or get a different TV with line inputs... should be pretty cheap.

The Philips I recommended has NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuners so they'd prob. get lots of channels and be "future-proofed" as well.

That "gizmo" is known as an RF Modulator.

I also recommend an HDD recorder. It will eliminate alot of geezer confusion during operation.

I'd have to agree with Wajo. Get maybe a refurbished 3575 for $199 plus a RF modulator for ~$20 at Walmart or Radio Shack.
At first the 3575 might seem like a overkill for their use, but when you think all the complexities with DVD's, need to format, finalize etc. it might just be easier for them to use the HDD and probably only use the DVD burner for playing DVD's, something that they must not be doing now, since basically all DVD players do not output RF.
Reliability is also another issue. The links Westly gave you were for a couple Panasonic EZ-x7 series DVDR's. Personally while I think they have great PQ, I wouldn't suggest them for someone new to DVD's. They can be complicated and somewhat buggy.
I'd suggest the new Panasonic EZ-28, but at $229 it's more than the rebuilt 3575 and again personally I'd suggest the 3575 for someone new to DVD's.
You might be tempted by the $100 tunerless Walmart recorders and I suppose you could hook one up to a CECB(coupon eligible converter box) to record digital OTA, it might be somewhat complicated. That would probably be the cheapest route. $100 for recorder + $20? for a CECB(with coupon) then add ~$20 for the RF modulator and they'd have less than $150(oh + $15?) for a spindle of RW discs.
At $200 + $20 for the modulator the 3575 would cost more, but sure be a neater job.

Thanks for the advice.

So, I have one more question, or two... or maybe three.

Anyway, the refurbished Philips looks like a good bet, and I'll probably just go ahead and buy that for them. However, before I do, would it just be better to bite the bullet and get them a better TV?

Could they use the recorder they have now (sans tuner) if the TV provides audio/video out? In the end it will be more expensive, as they keep the recorder, and I shell out a couple hundred to get them a more capable TV, but with the conversion coming up, I really don't want to spend hours on the phone trying to get them converted.

I failed to mention that I am in Chicago, and they are in South Carolina. So, running over there to help out isn't an option.

So in the end, what is going to be the best way to maintain my sanity once all this goes down?

Their cable company is a pathetic, locally owned company that doesn't offer DVR capability. So that option is out as well.

What would you guys do? Better TV, or different DVD recorder. Hell I even offered to send them an extra Tivo I have laying around. They don't want to pay the monthly fee. AARRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!

The Feb 2009 conversion won't affect them since they're on cable... it's only OTA that goes all digital. You are the only one who can decide on how much equipment they need/want and you can afford, etc.

Since the 3575 records with a timer program, like their VCR did, once they set one or more of those for their favorite shows, all they'll need to do is turn it on, press the Title button and press play on the recorded title they want to watch. Then, delete the title after watching, also a couple button presses on the same title screen.

Setting a timer program has six blocks of info to set using the arrow buttons, very easy to do compared to some DVDRs, like the Pio 640, which has many more options (confusion to them).

Not really much to get used to and, besides, if they have a question for you from North Carolina, just click on my signature and look up the answer! :D

The Magnavox has no tuner so it is unable to tune and record cable signals without a cable box.

Return the Magnavox, get the Philips and they will be ready for the future with their current TV.

Could they use the recorder they have now (sans tuner) if the TV provides audio/video out?
Very few TV's provide audio/video out. Mine does, it was a $1000 Panasonic LCD, but I don't think many others do. Besides the TV needs to be ON and tuned to the correct channel to output to the AV outs.
Since they have cable my CECB box idea won't work so Personally I'd have them try the 3575 route with a RF modulator and their current TV. Sure a new 16x9 TV would be nice, but it would be just one more thing to complicate things for them now. Maybe down the line, if so you've only wasted the ~$20 on the RF modulator.

Okay, fantastic.

It's a done deal. I'll get them the Phillips and be done with it.

It will be overkill, but an all in one option, with expandability will do them well.

I appreciate all your help.

I really wish they did music. I can help them with that. I'm just not a TV kind of guy.

Jeff,

We have a Sony widescreen CRT HDTV with HD tuner "built-in." This TV, purchased in 2005, has audio/video outputs. I've tried to record from those outputs (on a DMR-ES40V and DMR-ES35V) but there is nothing there. Have you recorded from these outputs on your Panasonics?

I ordered a 3575 yesterday. I plan to use the component outputs to my Westinghouse widescreen LCD HD TV. On the 3575 is the RF output just a pass-through instead of an active output?

I ordered a 3575 yesterday. I plan to use the component outputs to my Westinghouse widescreen LCD HD TV. On the 3575 is the RF output just a pass-through instead of an active output?
The 3575's RF in/out loop is strictly an amplified passthru, as described in this post. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12298409&postcount=10)

Get an LG DR787T. It has RF channel 3 output, so it can be connected to a tv with only an RF input. I think it is the only DVD recorder, in fact the only DVD player to have a channel 3 output. It also has an ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuner. Or get the DR797T which includes a VCR.

It's a done deal. I'll get them the Phillips and be done with it.

It will be overkill, but an all in one option, with expandability will do them well.It's not overkill. The DVR will be easier for them to use than a DVD recorder, and they'll have plenty of space to record on. They won't have to keep on remembering to erase the DVD's.

:-o

minivanman,

Sounds like you made the right decision for them. Too bad they are so opposed to additional monthly fees because in reality a Tivo or cable co DVR would actually be the ideal choice for them, but the Philips should work well. Thankfully they are on cable and not OTA. But this situation makes me think about the coming train wreck that the US faces with people in similar situations, lack of technical knowledge, and dispositions (unwillingness/inability to learn, change, or spend the money necessary to accommodate the switch over) that are not going to be able to handle the coming digital OTA switch. Sheesh. What a disaster that is going to be...

Back in the old days, before the common use of electricity, folks had to watch TV by candlelight.

Too bad the Philips didn't have TV Guide on Screen like the older ones. That would at least ease some of the stress and be one less thing they'd have to hassle with (setting manual timers, that is).

Too bad the Philips didn't have TV Guide on Screen like the older ones. That would at least ease some of the stress and be one less thing they'd have to hassle with (setting manual timers, that is).

That's one of the reasons behind my statement that a DVR or Tivo would make more sense for them. Also, they will likely NEVER burn a disc on the Philips (reason #2 why a Tivo/DVR makes more sense).

Very few TV's provide audio/video out. Mine does, it was a $1000 Panasonic LCD, but I don't think many others do.

You'd be surprised. My cheapo RCA CRT has audio/composite video out. Stereo, even.

If they could get and live with just OTA (which I'd assume that soap opera is on, although I could be wrong), they would really love having the TR-50, and absolutely NO fees to worry about all around then.

Jeff,

We have a Sony widescreen CRT HDTV with HD tuner "built-in." This TV, purchased in 2005, has audio/video outputs. I've tried to record from those outputs (on a DMR-ES40V and DMR-ES35V) but there is nothing there. Have you recorded from these outputs on your Panasonics?

Yes it was my only way to record OTA digital broadcasts before I purchased my first EZ-17.
The output is only composite and stereo, and as mentioned the TV must be on and tuned to channel you want to record. Also any OSD messages displayed on the TV will show up on the recordings. Don't want to change volume during recording:D
The PQ was not as good as the EZ-17(I believe for one thing since it had to go over composite, instead of say S-video) but it was much better than analog and was WS.
When I was looking for TV's I found very few that had video outputs. I remember looking behind all the TV's at Sams and Costco and I believe only 2 had video outs. My Panny and I think a much more expensive larger Plasma.
Note I never use the outputs anymore since getting the EZ-28 and also my Samsung 260 HD tuner. They both provide a better PQ than the composite out of my TV, but it was nice before I had other options.

I wish you luck with your 3575, but being a longtime Panny guy I'm wondering how you'll like the PQ of the Philips. The 2hr SP is fine, but if you like to user longer lengths(between 2 1/2 hrs and say 4hrs) you may not be happy with the 3575. If you like to use 6hr mode on your Panny's you'll probably be OK with the 6hr speed on the Philips, I think there quite similar. Note 6 hrs is the max on Philips, so if you like to use the EP8 on the Pannys, you'll be out of luck with the Philips. As far as the HDD, if you've never used one before I'm sure you will love it.
One last thing I believe every time you insert a R disc in the 3575 it records something called empty title(I think) on the disc. If you then take that disc out (without you actually recording anything to the disc) it will be unusable on the Panny's. It will say "unsupport" I think.
I can't remember if just by putting a R disc in the Panny if it also acted the same way on the Philips, but for one thing the Panny does not record this empty title thing, so I think you'd be ok until you actually recorded on the Panny, after which I don't believe the Philips would except it, until the disc was finalized on the Panny.
DigadoES/Philips- kinda has a nice ring to it:D:D

Too bad the Philips didn't have TV Guide on Screen like the older ones. That would at least ease some of the stress and be one less thing they'd have to hassle with (setting manual timers, that is).
They're VCR people so they'll be very familiar, and possibly more comfortable, with setting manual timers... one less new thing to learn or complicate their life if TVGOS burps!

Jeff,

I appreciate your advice. I'm planning to keep the Philips recordings at the better quality settings, 2-4 hour speed range, and then transfer those worth saving to DVD in that same quality. That way I hope not to sacrifice too much in the way of quality. Lately on my Panasonics I've been recording most titles at the LP (4 hour) speed. Even with two Panasonics enslaved to the cable box and recording in tandum I have occasionally had to resort to Flexible Recording that may approach the 8 hour speed. I have tried to avoid this if possible. I know I'll miss Flexible Recording but hard drive recording and no loss in quality when moving a recording to DVD at the same speed should more than make up for that loss. I understand that there will be no swapping of unfinalized DVDs between the two brands, but I expect (at least initially) to use the Philips DVD recording section only for saving recordings for later watching, i.e. "time-shifting." (I am watching, for the first time, titles I originally recorded on videotape more than twenty years ago. I copied these "time-shifted" titles to DVD last summer.)

Our Sony HDTV was not outputting anything on the composite outputs when I tried recording both digital and analog sources. At that time we were tuning with a Cable Card inserted in a slot on the Sony rear panel. More recently we gave back the Cable Card and got a Motorola HD converter box so we would have the program guide and On Demand capability. The Motorola HD box has its own Cable Card behind a secured panel on the back of the converter box itself. Since getting the HD box I haven't attempted to record from the Sony outputs. The DMR-ES40V is set up to play VHS and DVD on this TV, but not for recording.

I expect to keep using my DigaDo name. I hope Philips folks will not be adverse to my name if I post in Philips threads.

I'm sure they'll understand:D
And I think you have a good point about the lack of PQ loss from recording HDD to DVD on the 3575. It's a nice feature.
I think both you and I would have loved a Panny w/hdd, but during the time they were being sold I had no idea of the benefits of HDD recording. I only learned that since posting on forums. I don't think HDD recording was very well promoted and I just didn't have a clue of the benefits. Now the digital tuner is a big point for me, otherwise I might go the Canadian or international route. Maybe if Canada gets a EZ unit with HDD. Europe seems to have the EZ units with digital(PAL) tuners.

My parents (well into their 60's), just bought a DVD recorder to replace an old VCR that was used to record my stepmother's favorite soap. It's the only thing they record, and are lamenting the old VCR dying.

(I haven't fully read the thread)

#1 -- if they're really just trying to record a soap, getting a DVR is probably a better solution.. then they're recording to a hard drive, and it's even easier to keep track of.

#2 -- the VCR itself is a great choice as an RF modulator. Even if the VCR isn't working as in recording to tapes, most likely its tuner and RF modulator are working. Hook the DVD recorder's A/V hookups to the VCR, and leave the VCR connected to the TV as now. The only bad thing is that this wastes a bit of power to keep the VCR on.

#2 -- the VCR itself is a great choice as an RF modulator. Even if the VCR isn't working as in recording to tapes, most likely its tuner and RF modulator are working. Hook the DVD recorder's A/V hookups to the VCR, and leave the VCR connected to the TV as now. The only bad thing is that this wastes a bit of power to keep the VCR on.

This won't work properly. With most set-ups, hooking a DVD player through a VCR will activate the Macrovision protection and you'll end up with annoying visual effects. The last time I tried this (too lazy to reach around the back of the TV to plug in when the VCR had nice easy front jacks), the screen would alternate dark to light. It was a wierd effect and annoyed the crap outta me.

While a VCR would work for non-macrovision stuff, any rental/purchased movie would be affected.

Subject Change - I see that many are suggesting the Philips unit. It's a neat unit (my BIL has one) that works pretty good. However, I wonder if the Parents wouldn't be better suited with the LG 797T. It's got ATSC/NTSC/QAM just like the Philips and it'll record onto standard VHS tapes. There's nothing new for the Parents to learn.

I keep wondering why stand-alone ATSC VCRs aren't being made/sold. There are still tons of people with VCRs, which will be made less functional in a year. Combine the costs of a $40 gov't box and a $30 VCR, take into account that some components are duplicated and now you got a $60 ATSC-VCR. I think people with large collections of VCR tapes would be happy. Alas ... there's probably no money to be made for the manufacturers for this device.

ft

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I keep wondering why stand-alone ATSC VCRs aren't being made/sold.

Alas ... there's probably no money to be made for the manufacturers for this device.



I think you answered your own question. ;)

We had a recent thread about standalone VCRs and their disappearance. VHS was pretty much gasping its last when the mandate for ATSC tuners came in about a year ago. With that, what was left of the standalones vanished and only combo players (DVD/VCR) remained. Added the existence of DVD recording, DVR, HTPCs, etc., I don't think a profit is to be made on a technology that is pushing 30+ years old now.

One last thing I believe every time you insert a R disc in the 3575 it records something called empty title(I think) on the disc. If you then take that disc out (without you actually recording anything to the disc) it will be unusable on the Panny's. It will say "unsupport" I think.
I can't remember if just by putting a R disc in the Panny if it also acted the same way on the Philips, but for one thing the Panny does not record this empty title thing, so I think you'd be ok until you actually recorded on the Panny, after which I don't believe the Philips would except it, until the disc was finalized on the Panny.

The "empty title thing" is probably related to the fact that the Philips records on ALL media (+R/RW and -R/RW) in +VR mode. So when a -R disc is inserted it has to be "converted" to +VR, which probably involves the "empty title thing".

Panasonics probably see the empty title, or some other aspect of the conversion, and do not recognize the disc as -R anymore, and so they do the unsupport thing.

Since Panasonics do not "convert" -R discs, or create an empty title, there should be no problem using a disc originally placed in a Panasonic, and then inserted into a Philips.

Sounds like a good explanation to me:) Thanks!