I received my review copy a week ago last Saturday. My schedule has not allowed a complete viewing of every possible section of the program yet. I've definitely seen enough to say this is a winner!

The program is basically a combination of the original tutorial program, plus the material from the HD DVD combo disc that's been out a while, plus some added stuff in the tutorial content. Navigation is a breeze.

Some of the material was re-mastered in 4K digital and down-converted to 1080P. The package includes the same tri-color filter card seen previously and a 20 page program guide document. This new program has ample helpful instruction for the novice as well as professional test materials. The audio tracks are Dolby TrueHD. This is now my favorite program for recommending to customers new to HD. The pro content is not exhaustive but very versatile. An HD DVD version is also available. Today, I received my first inventory of the BD version, with HD DVD copies to arrive in the next day or two.

This is a brief overview. Perhaps other users will add their comments on the package in days to come. Those users of Joe Kane Productions' past programs who had difficulty with the navigation should love this new format.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Thanks, that is really encouraging. I was beginning to think that Joe Kane Productions (JKP) had forgotten about its original "A Video Standard" roots (Laserdisc). That was a very informative disc, and was easy to use (I still have my copy). Both VE and DVE seemed to have strayed from the original, in terms of ease of use, and DVE was worse than VE.

I'm going to have to order a copy, when I buy my Blu-ray player.

Question: Is the new version still using a 50% APL for their Brightness and Contrast test patterns? That is one area where the GetGray Caldisc is far superior to the older versions of both DVE and AVIA.

Using a 0% APL for the Brightness pattern and 100% APL for the Contrast pattern provides for maximizing the shadow and white level details and getting the best contrast ratio without added test equipment (IMHO).

Here's a link to the basic program contents and list of patterns: http://www.videoessentials.com/program_notes.php . Perhaps the 'Video Black w/New PLUGE' might appeal to you. As I said, the pro content is not exhaustive, but has unique features, and is versatile. Personally, I own many test programs, use them all, and don't find that any do everything I need.

I received my "upgrade" package today (it does not include the filters and the program guide is only 11 pages). I also have not had a chance to check it out, but am looking forward to it. I too have many test disks and have generally found, as George has, that no one disc has everything - so I use several, along with my Accupel.

I double-checked and my program guide is also 11 pages. Another document must have been on my mind.

This link is for a PDF of the program notes for JKP's HD DVD combo disc version: http://www.videoessentials.com/dvehd/images/DVE_HD_Program_final.pdf . It will offer more detail about the test patterns also used in this new title.

Is my bass off or did DVE screw it up again? (for those that haven't used the older one, the LFE level was inaccurate)

I suggest you contact Joe Kane Productions for the details on how they produced that part of the program.

I found myself not smart enough to use the DVE. I got the color, brightness and contrast down. I think. There are so many other options on my 42' Kuro, I don't know where to start. I was looking for an ISF tech before, I really am now.

Try looking here for a calibrator in your area: http://www.isfforum.com/sobi2/ISF-Forum-Calibrators/Americas/United-States.html

Just got it saturday and tried in in my Pany bd-30 going to a pio 5080 and nothing but problems - after getting a calibration window on the screen - none of the arrows work in order to move to the next one or at least get back to the menu and then select the next calibration screen - have to press menu and start all over with the dvd.

anyone else have this problem?

With my PS3, the arrows don't work and the audio portion is very screwed up. I think the audio portion may have screwed up my speakers. I had it the suggested referrence level at 75db and on the sweep it made my speakers pop and screech. At normal referrences they sound great still.

I've been working with both the HD DVD and BD versions and have thus far not encountered the above mentioned problems. Players I have used include: Samsung BD1200, BD5000 Combo & Toshiba Qosmio G35 Notebook. All have most recent firmware updates.

mine has the latest firmware update also - but when i show a calibration screen - the arrows don't work too get me to the next calibration screen - if i'm in the menu, the arrows work fine - but once a calibratioin pattern is on the screen - the only button that works is menu and then the whole thing restarts. makes it impossible to do a grey scale.

I've been working with both the HD DVD and BD versions and have thus far not encountered the above mentioned problems. Players I have used include: Samsung BD1200, BD5000 Combo & Toshiba Qosmio G35 Notebook. All have most recent firmware updates.

Are you working in the disc's "Play All" mode or rotating the pattern thumb nail menu to select only one specific pattern to start?

I double-checked both the HD DVD and BD versions in my Samsung BD5000 Combo player. Both the L/R arrow and chapter skip buttons work when changing patterns on the HD DVD version (whether in or out of "Play All" mode). With the BD version, only the chapter skip buttons will move forward or back to the next pattern, and only in "Play All" mode.

i select a pattern for example 10% grey and it is now on my screen - i hit next or previous and nothing - hit any of the arrows and nothing - hit menu button and dvd reboots to the menu rather than a clean back or forward action.

i have the hd dvd one and it works fine - show a pattern and hit the left arrow and back to the menu apporpriately. The hd dvd one does not have the grey scales 5 to 100 just 20,40,60,80,100.

I double-checked both the HD DVD and BD versions in my Samsung BD5000 Combo player. Both the L/R arrow and chapter skip buttons work when changing patterns on the HD DVD version (whether in or out of "Play All" mode). With the BD version, only the chapter skip buttons will move forward or back to the next pattern, and only in "Play All" mode.

The audio portion is so screwed up. For the level balancing porition, you only have about 10 seconds to make your adjustments before it goes to the next speaker.

Also, when you exit the menu a lot of it cut off on the right hand side. I have my PZ700 and PS3 set up for 1080p out put and for some reason, leaving the audio portion makes it go into 720p

The hd dvd one does not have the grey scales 5 to 100 just 20,40,60,80,100.

The prior HD DVD version has the grayscale in the 720p section.

The new title (both BD and HD DVD) has 5% stepped gray scale windows in the 1080P section.

i select a pattern for example 10% grey and it is now on my screen - i hit next or previous and nothing - hit any of the arrows and nothing - hit menu button and dvd reboots to the menu rather than a clean back or forward action.

i have the hd dvd one and it works fine - show a pattern and hit the left arrow and back to the menu apporpriately. The hd dvd one does not have the grey scales 5 to 100 just 20,40,60,80,100.

I can't believe Blu-Ray is the de facto standard in Hi-def DVD, what with all the problems people on this thread are having with it!

Guess I'd better get a HD-DVD player and any HD-DVDs I want before 08 is out!

With my PS3, the arrows don't work and the audio portion is very screwed up. I think the audio portion may have screwed up my speakers. I had it the suggested referrence level at 75db and on the sweep it made my speakers pop and screech. At normal referrences they sound great still.Worked fine for me with my PS3.

I can't believe Blu-Ray is the de facto standard in Hi-def DVD, what with all the problems people on this thread are having with it!

Guess I'd better get a HD-DVD player and any HD-DVDs I want before 08 is out!But the folks here (well some of them) are talking about problems with THIS PARTICULAR Blu-ray.

Joe Kane Productions announced that the reason 'DVD: HD Basics' was delayed from October until last month was because they encountered so many problems with the Blu-ray players that were on the market. They tested the program with all existing players before releasing the disc to prevent player-related playback and navigation problems. It's sounding like some individual players may have glitches specific to that machine.

But the folks here (well some of them) are talking about problems with THIS PARTICULAR Blu-ray.

Well, take a look outside the AVS club room window:

Blu-ray movies playback in b&w only:
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26308181

Certain Samsung Blu-Ray players won't play some discs:
http://www.chimicles.com/bluray/

This time the American public is really getting the shaft. Special interests have forced out HD-DVD: a perfectly fine successor to SD-DVD, in favor of this Ford Pinto of a video format!!

Well, take a look outside the AVS club room window:

Blu-ray movies playback in b&w only:
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26308181

Certain Samsung Blu-Ray players won't play some discs:
http://www.chimicles.com/bluray/

This time the American public is really getting the shaft. Special interests have forced out HD-DVD: a perfectly fine successor to SD-DVD, in favor of this Ford Pinto of a video format!!Ah, a TROLL just looking for any opportunity to bash Blu-ray.

So this bashing has WHAT to do with with Display Calibration?

Ah, a TROLL just looking for any opportunity to bash Blu-ray.

So this bashing has WHAT to do with with Display Calibration?

MISTER Hancock:

Read the title under my Handle, check my profile - and just DARE to call me a "troll" once more. I suggest you check your emotions as soon as you read these words.

Insult my Hungarian & Italian heritage, make fun of my liberal politics, tease me for being a Yankee fan, it's all good - but don't EVER call me a troll.


GOT that?!


good.


I can call Blu-Ray to the red carpet whenever I fee like it. It has everything to do with display calibration when people on here can't easily access the specific items on a DVD to do their jobs.

MISTER Hancock:

Read the title under my Handle, check my profile - and just DARE to call me a "troll" once more. I suggest you check your emotions as soon as you read these words.

Insult my Hungarian & Italian heritage, make fun of my liberal politics, tease me for being a Yankee fan, it's all good - but don't EVER call me a troll.


GOT that?!


good.


I can call Blu-Ray to the red carpet whenever I fee like it. It has everything to do with display calibration when people on here can't easily access the specific items on a DVD to do their jobs.Well your postings here certainly sound like a TROLL.

Well your postings here certainly sound like a TROLL.

And you know what - that senator from Illinois - Barack something? With a middle name like that he certainly sounds like a MUSLIM!


lol..

Guys please, a format argument is a waste of everyone's time.

As is a name calling tiff. We're all adults, so let's keep it at that level.

Worked fine for me with my PS3.

maybe I am using the wrong test. Which one did you use?

this blu-ray disk is a waste of money if one can not navigate the disk - i sent joe kane productions an email regarding the problems but have not heard back - i'm really ticked off about them producing a product that doesn't work properly.

OK, one more time. Are you in the "Play All" mode? I don't have your player, so I can't verify if it works on others of the same make and model. My players get around in the disc fine, both the HD DVD and BD versions.

this blu-ray disk is a waste of money if one can not navigate the disk - i sent joe kane productions an email regarding the problems but have not heard back - i'm really ticked off about them producing a product that doesn't work properly.

It's not Joe's company's fault - he didn't rush a relatively unproven format to market nor squelch demand for its more capable & robust competitor - HD-DVD.

In 18-24 months, Blu-Ray's bugs will have all but been worked out. But should the general public be the guinea pig during this process?

I think not.

no - i am not in "play all"

i have the earlier hd-dvd one (got it a while back) and the arrows work fine.

i specifically needed 1080p grey scale patterns to work properly for my tv. for example - show a 10% - then hit the left arrow to go back to the menu and then bring up the 20% pattern, etc. But nooooooooooo.

i have about 10 blu-ray moves and the arrows (where appropriate) work fine.

OK, one more time. Are you in the "Play All" mode? I don't have your player, so I can't verify if it works on others of the same make and model. My players get around in the disc fine, both the HD DVD and BD versions.

It sounds to me like your problems are due to operator error rather than the disc or the machine. I tried to respond to your dilemma in my previous posts (#14 & #15), but you never responded to my question until just now. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

In either the basic or advanced video patterns sections, there is a note to the right of the "Play All" box on the rotating navigation feature. The note says, "Additional Info: Press Pause to hold any pattern on screen for a longer period of time. Use the Right Arrow key or the Skip Forward key to get to the next pattern. Use the Left Arrow key or the Skip Back key to go back among the patterns." Have you tried these options?

On my Samsung BD player, I have to use the "Skip Forward" and "Skip Back" method to advance or back up through the individual patterns. This only works in "Play All" mode. You have to select that mode, rather than the specific pattern type you want on the navigation rotation.

It also sounds like you are neglecting to read the instructions for the disc and just assuming it works like your movie discs. I periodically get in trouble from assuming things. Your frustration could actually be self-induced.

I did it your way and it works and its very convenient to do it that way too!!

Well thought out and user friendly and to end the session - just hit menu and the dvd reboots - great design.

It sounds to me like your problems are due to operator error rather than the disc or the machine. I tried to respond to your dilemma in my previous posts (#14 & #15), but you never responded to my question until just now. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

In either the basic or advanced video patterns sections, there is a note to the right of the "Play All" box on the rotating navigation feature. The note says, "Additional Info: Press Pause to hold any pattern on screen for a longer period of time. Use the Right Arrow key or the Skip Forward key to get to the next pattern. Use the Left Arrow key or the Skip Back key to go back among the patterns." Have you tried these options?

On my Samsung BD player, I have to use the "Skip Forward" and "Skip Back" method to advance or back up through the individual patterns. This only works in "Play All" mode. You have to select that mode, rather than the specific pattern type you want on the navigation rotation.

It also sounds like you are neglecting to read the instructions for the disc and just assuming it works like your movie discs. I periodically get in trouble from assuming things. Your frustration could actually be self-induced.

Originally Posted by davehancock Originally Posted by Ericthemidget
With my PS3, the arrows don't work and the audio portion is very screwed up. I think the audio portion may have screwed up my speakers. I had it the suggested referrence level at 75db and on the sweep it made my speakers pop and screech. At normal referrences they sound great still.
Worked fine for me with my PS3.maybe I am using the wrong test. Which one did you use?Perhaps I didn't understand your problem but the arrows (next/previous/Scan F/Scan R) all work OK for me with all patterns (Audio & Video). I rechecked, and all audio tests work fine for me.

I finally braved the audio tests on this disc and I do believe the LFE track was corrected. At least it's not all wild and "peaky" (is that the correct term?) as it was on the DVD. I can't comment on the first HD DVD release since my copy of that disc didn't even produce audio on my HD-A2 when I played back the band limited test tones (but bizarrely worked just fine during the subwoofer phase test). Anyhoo, I calibrated the audio with my BD copy of DVE: HD Basics and am satisfied with the results.

how do you get the audio level test track to work? For me it goes to the next speaker on it's own. Obviously, I can't hit pause because that would cut off the audio

how do you get the audio level test track to work? For me it goes to the next speaker on it's own. Obviously, I can't hit pause because that would cut off the audioYou are probably looking for something different regarding the audio test track than this particular disk is designed to do. It works the way that it apparently was designed to work.

then what is the point of the levels on this disk?

For me it goes to the next speaker on it's own.
This is a linear, and/or random access, program on a rotating disc, not a test tone generator such as what's included in surround processors and AV receivers. Video test signals can be paused but audio tones cannot. That's the nature of the beast and the limit of the format. If you need more time with a given audio test signal, you'll simply have to repeat that portion of the program.

I did it your way and it works and its very convenient to do it that way too!!
It's not MY way.....it's the way the program was designed to function, as explained in the program directions. Users of SD DVDs will not see all the same types of functionality they have become used to. HD DVD and BD discs don't allow the same features as SD DVD or even each other. They do offer new, different and advanced features all their own that may take some getting used to.

then what is the point of the levels on this disk?
Please re-phrase your question and be more specific.

Ericthemidget -- They are included as a reference check.

If you want to calibrate your audio system, your best bet is to get the "Rives Audio Test CD 2" (http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/softframes.html). It has test tracks designed to work with the, inexpensive, Radio Shack Analog Sound level meter (as well as more expensive ones - different tracks).

My AVR has a very good built-in calibrator (Pioneer's MCACC), and I haven't really used my copy of this test CD - other than as a double-check. I wouldn't depend on using the ones from DVE, or AVIA (they don't seem to work that well anyway - and are not as thorough either).

The best multi-channel audio calibration title I've found is 'The 5.1 Audio Toolkit' by Anthony Grimani (formerly of Dolby Labs and Lucasfilm THX), produced by GoldLine and Performance Media Industries, Ltd. (PMI). It's recorded in Dolby Digital and also includes 6.1 channel signals. It's the only title for strictly audio setup and calibration I carry on my web site.

The advantage of 'DVE: HD Basics' audo test signals is that they are in Dolby TrueHD. I don't know of any other test disc offering multi-channel audio calibration signals in that format.

That's a good point George. The Rives one, I mentioned, is also a strictly audio test CD and does include multi-channel test tones + a sub-woofer set.

So is DVE Blu-ray a good buy or no!? I just want a simple to use calibration disc to view movies, tv, and PS3 games to the finest quality available. The main purpose for me purchasing the disc is everything seems to be either too bright or too dark, and I cant figure out what settings to adjust. Thanks for any help.

Greetings

The color bar pattern is used for Tint and there is such a pattern on the disc.

Regards

It's well worth the price. It's the only full-featured tutorial home theater setup program available on Blu-ray. The program does include instructions for setting tint. Joe Kane has produced an easy to navigate, unique and helpful program that offers resources for beginners and professionals alike. No, it's not perfect, nor does it include every test signal one could want. Such a program has yet to be produced by anyone.

got a call from joe kane productions regarding the problems i was having with the blu-ray dve on a pany bd-30. to make a long story short - they know about the potential problems and are exchanging the blu-ray version for the new HD-DVD version. I'll have their new HD-DVD version in the next few days.

That doesn't make sense to me. Your BD30 is a Blu-Ray player. A HD-DVD disc won't work in it. The two formats are incompatible. Are you sure you haven't gotten the two formats reversed?

There are no Rec 709 RGBCMY 75% intensity patterns on the disc. I find this a LARGE omission from this disk as it is part of calibrating the CMS on the display device.

It's great that it includes greyscale patterns in 5% increments from 0-100IRE, but no RGBCMY patterns means it's no a complete calibration disk for Bluray 1080p.

Any thoughts?

Any thoughts?
There are test patterns that may contain those elements as a portion of the pattern. You may have to use another program for the feature(s) this one lacks. Have you communicated with the author of the program?

"We welcome feedback at the ‘Contact Us’ area of this web site."
http://www.videoessentials.com/contactus.php

Here's a link on JKPI's site that offers more detail about BD Profile/player peculiarities and disc navigation issues:
http://www.videoessentials.com/program_notes2.php

There are no Rec 709 RGBCMY 75% intensity patterns on the disc. I find this a LARGE omission from this disk as it is part of calibrating the CMS on the display device.

It's great that it includes greyscale patterns in 5% increments from 0-100IRE, but no RGBCMY patterns means it's no a complete calibration disk for Bluray 1080p.

Any thoughts?It is entitled "HD Basics" after all. I don't think that they intended for it to be a substitution for a signal generator.

yup, a signal generator works very well for setting (and measuring) primaries and secondaries.

Hi,

I have an Olevia 232t. The native display is 1366x768. I have the PS3 outputting 1080i.

Should I change the PS3's output to 720p before calibrating with this disc?

Or can I calibrate the tv with the PS3 setting on 1080i?

I ask because I read rumblings about this and I wasn't sure.

Thanks for any help.

i have a toshiba a30 also.

one more thing - i think getgrey is a better disk for just patterns - i just wanted to try a professional blu-ray dvd to see if there are any differeneces between calibrating with getgrey's patterns and a pro non-upscaled pattern.

That doesn't make sense to me. Your BD30 is a Blu-Ray player. A HD-DVD disc won't work in it. The two formats are incompatible. Are you sure you haven't gotten the two formats reversed?

i just wanted to try a professional blu-ray dvd to see if there are any differeneces between calibrating with getgrey's patterns and a pro non-upscaled pattern.
You will find that the suite of patterns on the 'DVE' HD DVD/SD combo disc is more elaborate. It's closer in content to 'DVE Pro'. Here's a link to the complete 140+ PDF of the program notes: http://www.videoessentials.com/dvehd/images/DVE_HD_Program_final.pdf

Should I change the PS3's output to 720p before calibrating with this disc? Or can I calibrate the tv with the PS3 setting on 1080i?
To find out what you "should" do, just try both settings with a multiburst or similar pattern to see how your TV behaves. As far as whether you "can" calibrate in 1080I, the answer is yes.

You won't be able to bypass the TV's processor, due to the fact that its native resolution is neither 1080I nor 720p. Therefore, you'll need to try both formats to discover which produces the cleanest image after passing through the processing in the set.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

It is entitled "HD Basics" after all. I don't think that they intended for it to be a substitution for a signal generator.

GetGray has the patterns for Rec 601. Why wouldn't something more expensive like this include them for 709?

i have a toshiba a30 also.

one more thing - i think getgrey is a better disk for just patterns - i just wanted to try a professional blu-ray dvd to see if there are any differeneces between calibrating with getgrey's patterns and a pro non-upscaled pattern.

Yes it does. But they are not rec 709, so that's why I was hoping this disc had them so they could be used for calibrating a true 1080p signal, and not just rec 601 upconverted to 1080p (i.e. when using getgray on a ps3)

steveskg -- If you are using the PS3 set to output 1080i, then you should calibrate it that way.

However, as George said, you should try using your PS3 set to 720p, as well as 1080i, to see which mode looks better on your display. My flat panel display is also 1366 x 768, and I found no difference in the picture from my DirecTV STB with either signal.

Thanks George and CT_Wiebe.

I have looked at the PS3 at different resolutions, and I determined that I preferred the way 1080i looked.

1080i just looked sharper/more clear than 720p. and it gave me more screen real estate (by making things smaller).

But I'll give it a go again.

There is no problem with what you have done. It's just that if you prefer to use your PS3 set to 1080i, then that is also the way you should calibrate your video system when using the PS3.

Hi Guys,

I have a PS3 and Optoma HD80 project, which I am thinking to calibrate it using DVE Blueray disc. I always play movies at 1080p/24fps output.

Questions:
1) Can I start calibrating the HD80 at 1080p/24fps output?
2) Has anyone calibrated HD80 with this DVE BD? How do you actually calibrate this projector? Suppose you are using grayscale test pattern, what things you need to adjust : do you have to adjust brightness, contrast, iris all together or there is a pattern?
3) I have a Mac OSX powerbook which provides a monitor calibration - it has serial steps to calibrate. I did not find DVE BD has similar steps, it just throws the test pattern but does not tell you what things you need to adjust in the projector. (I read the 140page PDF manual).

Any leads on this?

Thanks much
Prabhat

The new issue of 'Widescreen Review' magazine includes an article by Joe Kane on the difficulties encountered mastering 'DVE: HD Basics' on Blu-ray. The article is titled: 'One HD Optical Disc Format...Be Careful For What You Wish' and details the somewhat gruesome state of affairs among the various manufacturers' Blu-ray players. As usual, Joe doesn't name names. While consumers may wish to know what players had which problems, Joe leaves that job to reviewers of the various models.

One note repeatedly mentioned by the reviewers at 'Secrets Of Home Theater and HiFi' has been that most of the HD players they encountered gave standard DVD playback and upconversion short shrift. The exception appears to be those containing the Silicon Optics HQV chips.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

So is DVE Blu-ray a good buy or no!? I just want a simple to use calibration disc to view movies, tv, and PS3 games to the finest quality available. The main purpose for me purchasing the disc is everything seems to be either too bright or too dark, and I cant figure out what settings to adjust. Thanks for any help.

I went through the whole thing and my plasma has good color, but looks washed out. It looked better before I started. Unfortunately, I didn't write down the original settings.

I went through the whole thing and my plasma has good color, but looks washed out. It looked better before I started. Unfortunately, I didn't write down the original settings.

You and 200million other people! You're not alone. I don't know when this phenomena started, but people automatically assume that colors on TV are supposed to appear neon-like and to bleed over between adjacent subjects.

Hence, a TV that is transparent and conveys the scene exactly as it is or as the producer intended it(greens of "Matrix", warm red tones of "Apocalypse Now"), is thusly perceived to be "wrong" or even "malfunctioning" by the majority of viewers.

Trust me, knox- your settings are closer to accurate than they were. It may just take a few days to get used to them.

This TV color issue is a sad misperception that is just as hard to undo as some of the misperceptions people have about certain U.S. foreign policies.....

Greetings

If you go through life believing that "2+2=9" ... and then one day a person comes by and shows you that the answer is actually "4" ... then you too will have a hard time adjusting to that. 4 is less than 9 ... something is wrong ... something does not look right.

Doesn't change the fact that the answer is still "4" and not "9." You liking it has nothing to do with what the correct answer is.

The goal of calibration is to see the "ART" as the artist intended it to look. It is not about what you think it should look like. If you do not respect this aspect of the original artistic intent ... then it is time to put the disc away and just set the image to look any which way you want. Artistic integrity no longer matters. (Also time to leave this forum :) )

Regards

knoxtn,

Your problem may actually be operator error. Is this your first exposure to calibration? Did you only go through the tutorials once? What program signals are you watching? If your DVD player looks correct and your cable or satellite box looks different, you may have non-linearities in the source component that requires further adjustments to correct for (either in the TV adjustments or in the source device).

The disc itself cannot be the cause of what you are observing. Others cannot help you identify the cause of your dissatisfaction without more information about your system and/or what you have actually done with the test signals on the disc. The program supplies reference test signals which make it much easier to reliably adjust a display for a correct picture from your Blu-ray player. You must use them correctly, however.

My recommendation to you would be to repeat the program to see if you missed any details that could result in a "washed out" image using other BD programs. As mentioned above, you must also consider whether you have been so conditioned to viewing over-emphasized colors for so long that corrected colors appear under-represented.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

knoxtn,

Your problem may actually be operator error. Is this your first exposure to calibration? Did you only go through the tutorials once? What program signals are you watching? If your DVD player looks correct and your cable or satellite box looks different, you may have non-linearities in the source component that requires further adjustments to correct for (either in the TV adjustments or in the source device).

The disc itself cannot be the cause of what you are observing. Others cannot help you identify the cause of your dissatisfaction without more information about your system and/or what you have actually done with the test signals on the disc. The program supplies reference test signals which make it much easier to reliably adjust a display for a correct picture from your Blu-ray player. You must use them correctly, however.

My recommendation to you would be to repeat the program to see if you missed any details that could result in a "washed out" image using other BD programs. As mentioned above, you must also consider whether you have been so conditioned to viewing over-emphasized colors for so long that corrected colors appear under-represented.




No not the first exposure - I had the old DVE (with many more adjustments).....

I did have trouble with the brightness/contrast calibration - so I'll repeat everything.

I watched the demos with the factory calibration before I did anything and they looked beautiful. Now, they are washed out.

-And, the pics are washed out compared to a movie theater, for instance. I'm watching a BluRay movie for the comparison, not other sources.

I bought this disk hoping that it would be the be-all, end-all of my Bluray calibration needs, but now I find out it has no 75% or even 100% RGBCMY patterns in it.

Seeing as you can calibrate brightness and contrast for HD (Bluray) off an SD upconverted disc like GetGray, I fail to see how this disk provides any added value for calibrating Bluray devices?

Even the 20 step IRE patterns are irrelevant as you can use SD upconverted 20step IREs from GetGray to calibrate Bluray (correct if I'm wrong here please).

So why did I buy this calibration disk again?

Why not just use something like the AVCHD disks which are free:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

So why did I buy this calibration disk again?Not sure about why YOU would buy this disk, but others might:

It comes with the colored filters needed.
Some folks don't have the ability to download the file and find a program to burn it.
This DVD EXPLAINS what to do (consumer friendly)
This DVD has some audio tests.
I'm sure there are other good reasons as well.

Greetings

It isn't called HD BASICS for nothing. Doing color management is not considered to be a basic calibration requirement for people just entering the world of calibration.

I would not always trust a series of SD patterns for optimal HD material. Upconverting SD does not make it HD.

If you have nothing else ... you use what you have. Sure. But given the choice, I use real HD patterns for the player. I do often get different answers. Doesn't matter what the theory says ... 2500+ calibrations tell me different.

Regards

So why did I buy this calibration disk again?

Why not just use something like the AVCHD disks which are free:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

I downloaded and burned to disc the AVCHD format but I don't know how to use it. I bought the DVE for it's tutorials, as much as for the test patterns. I needed the filter too. My source is the BD30 with a PT-AE2000 display. I have not put the DVE disk in yet but plan to this weekend.

If I have problems using the test patterns on the DVE disk, I'll try the AVCHD. Are the test patterns from the AVCHD format similar to the ones explained in the DVE tutorials?

I was able to use the DVE disc to calibrate basic Contrast and Brightness. Is is possible to use the disc to calibrate the following settings? If so, how?

Gamma adjust
White balance for light red
White balance for dark red
White balance for light blue
White balance for dark blue

Can anyone else confirm what I'm seeing in the 1280x720p OPOOPO (One Pixel On-One Pixel Off) test pattern in HD Basics? There's a bar on the right side that is a lot lighter than the rest. Is this normal? Should the pattern be alternating bars of 2 specific densities if my display has all pixels?

Can anyone else confirm what I'm seeing in the 1280x720p OPOOPO (One Pixel On-One Pixel Off) test pattern in HD Basics? There's a bar on the right side that is a lot lighter than the rest. Is this normal? Should the pattern be alternating bars of 2 specific densities if my display has all pixels?

I see the same thing on a 1920x1080 display .. the same lighter bar.

I see the same thing on a 1920x1080 display .. the same lighter bar.

Ok, thanks! I hope I get a true 1080p display in the near future then I'll happily use the 1080p specific patterns! :)

I Just got Digital Video Essentials (DVE) on Blu-Ray.

Anyhow, I'm very disappointed with it because of one thing - the Dolby TrueHD audio.

The entire audio track is encoded in Dolby TrueHD and for some reason it takes forever (like minutes) for my receiver (an onkyo SR-705) to start playing it. So I always miss some amount of the audio. Hitting pause, or track forward/back causes it to lose the audio again for another couple of minutes! This is the only TrueHD blu-ray I'm having this bad a problem with. If I set my blu ray player (Panasonic BD30) to output PCM, then the audio is fine (but I'm getting only Dolby Digital audio at that point).

Has anyone else experienced this?

I have an Onkyo 875 and have had no problems with an audio delay. Did you do the DSP update on the 705?

I have an Onkyo 875 and have had no problems with an audio delay. Did you do the DSP update on the 705?

What kind of blu-ray player are you using? Are you bitstreaming TrueHD to your 875?

I'm using a PS3 and therefore not bitstreaming. The DSP update is supposed to fix the "DTS-MA Bomb" and locks onto the audio quicker when changing inputs, etc.

I'm using a PS3 and therefore not bitstreaming. The DSP update is supposed to fix the "DTS-MA Bomb" and locks onto the audio quicker when changing inputs, etc.

Well, that would explain why you are working fine. - the PS3 doesn't bitstream anything to your receiver. So the PS3 is doing the TrueHD decoding. Not the receiver.
Also, that DSP update doesnt fix the audio lock - thats what your firmware upgrade did.

Is the double dipping necessary?


I seem to be getting the impression that the calibration results one can get from this unit are not much different from those one can get from the DVD version of it! I do have the dvd version, *and* the first hd dvd version (which incidentally also has the dvd version on the flipside)... I have lcd and CRT hdtv display units, a couple of Toshiba hd dvd players, a PS3, and a Panasonic BD30 blu ray player... My question is this: is it necessary for me to purchase this to calibrate my displays with my blu ray players, even if I have already done that with the hd dvd/dvd versions using my Toshiba hd xa2? Is calibrating with this blu ray version of the dve disk going to produce any results that are different from what I have already got with the standard/hd dvd versions? This question has already been asked, but I do not think anyone has bothered to provide a very definitive and satifyingly detailed answer to it yet... Any help would be welcome.

By the way, when I used the first hd dvd version to calibrate my display, I ended up with settings that were not different from those I got with the standard dvd version... If this blu ray hd basics version will lead to a superior calibration, then I'm all for it and will purchase it immediately... If the results are going to be the same as those I got with the standard dvd version, then you know where I'm headed with that...

By the way, when I used the first hd dvd version to calibrate my display, I ended up with settings that were not different from those I got with the standard dvd version... If this blu ray hd basics version will lead to a superior calibration, then I'm all for it and will purchase it immediately... If the results are going to be the same as those I got with the standard dvd version, then you know where I'm headed with that...

AFAIK, the color saturation for SD vs HD is slightly different. As a matter of fact, I've noticed the colorstrips from HD Basics is darker than the one for SD DVD.

You would want a different disc per technology because each machine has different tendencies. One player may be neutral whereas another may not be. You probably could get away with using the calibration from the HD DVD version for your BD's but the XA2 may have different characteristics compared to your PS3.

If the results are going to be the same as those I got with the standard dvd version, then you know where I'm headed with that...

My two HD players over HDMI calibrate the same, but it's not necessarily a given. I haven't seen anything which would indicate that the color filters would be any different, so if anything you could always just rent the BD version from Netflix.

My two HD players over HDMI calibrate the same, but it's not necessarily a given. I haven't seen anything which would indicate that the color filters would be any different, so if anything you could always just rent the BD version from Netflix.

I see HD Basics is available on Netflix but it's kind of useless without the color filters. As I stated before, the color filters are darker than for the SD DVD version.

As I stated before, the color filters are darker than for the SD DVD version.

He has the HD DVD disk. Even though the HD DVD disk includes both a HD and SD version there is only one color filter card. If each disk required a different filter this would be incongruent. Your BD color filter might be darker than the one that came with your SD disk, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the disks use different type color filters. It could be due to such things as typical variation or it might be intended but likewise insignificant. I would be interested in any technical differences, like how UV has been discussed in comparing DVE and Ovation's fiters. In the end though, using a color filter isn't exact anyway and is only a rough estimation due to such things as different display types.

Greetings

If they appear darker ... it is merely random. Production variations can quite often result in blue filters that don't look the same.

Compare 5 filters from 5 packages of DVE and you will find that they may all be different from each other.

Filters are tools ... not meant to be the final answer in setting color and tint. Gotta use your eyes ... these things have weaknesses.

Regards

He has the HD DVD disk. Even though the HD DVD disk includes both a HD and SD version there is only one color filter card. If each disk required a different filter this would be incongruent. Your BD color filter might be darker than the one that came with your SD disk, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the disks use different type color filters. It could be due to such things as typical variation or it might be intended but likewise insignificant. I would be interested in any technical differences, like how UV has been discussed in comparing DVE and Ovation's fiters. In the end though, using a color filter isn't exact anyway and is only a rough estimation due to such things as different display types.

I think the reason why the color filter in HD Basics is darker than previous SD-only color filters is because now it has to be good for calibrating both the 601 and 709 colorspace. There is at least one pattern that has both the 601 and 709 bars on the same screen. Therefore, the color filter probably needed to be changed to accomodate both.

I think we should all just guess, speculate, wonder, conjecture, suppose, imagine, etc., etc........OR, someone will ask Joe Kane and subsequently tell us what the real facts are. Any volunteers?

Michael is correct in mentioning that there are dye lot variations from batch to batch. However, variations are subtle and not readily identifiable by eye. When Joe was preparing to release 'Digital Video Essentials' when the program was new, he studied samples of color filters from the leading suppliers at the time. He settled on those from GAM. He also looked at neutral density filters at that time and recommended that I switch from Rosco brand to GAM for the ND filters I was incorporating into my Ideal-Lume models. He found the Rosco ND filters I was using had a slight green tint to them. I immediately discarded all the stock I had and switched to GAM's filters.

I called Joe today and discussed the issue mentioned by ELW5. He assured me that he had been checking the 'DVE' filters periodically over the years since its release and had not seen any variation in quality. While he had me on the phone, he went to his library and pulled down a 3 year old copy of 'DVE' and a new copy of 'DVE: HD Basics' on Blu-ray. They were identical. Joe did say that he had seen rare cases of assembly errors where the filters were the wrong combination. One case had two blue and one red, or other odd combinations that would be readily recognizable as errors.

Joe mentioned that he uses two filters in each color, of differing densities (one dark and one lighter) in order to insure rejections of interfering color on the screen. He suspects the sample mentioned could have been assembled with two dark filters erroneously. His suggestion for ELW5 was to contact the distributor (DVD International) and request a replacement.

Perhaps the AV Science forum can be less tedious to learn from for all of us, if this process is heeded by more participants. Speculation may be fun for some, but the older I get the less fulfilling it is for me. When it is available to go to the source for first-hand information about a dilemma, a little extra effort in that direction usually yields more satisfactory results.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

Well Thanks to you all: EWL5, alluringreality, Michael, and George... I have found all your answers helpful... As it stands, I have decided to go ahead and order the DVE blu ray disk, because the hd dvd version I have is the first (relatively inferior) version: not the "HD Basics" version which is presumably the one I ought to have bought... The blu ray version will not be a merely redundant duplicate, so it is worth having.Thanks again.

The 'DVE: HD Basics' has updated tutorials and educational information (similar to 'DVE' on SD DVD) but fewer test patterns than the HD DVD version you have. Don't let loose of the HD DVD version, as long as you have an HD DVD player.

Hi All,

I just picked up a copy of the DVE Blu-Ray HD Basics today. I am using the Panny BD-30 with a Onkyo 605 receiver. When I first threw the disck in, I got some sound during the intro scene. However, afterwards, in the main menu I started running into alot of trouble.

I've noticed a few things

1) Each time I go to a menu and run the patterns or video with people talking or program I get the DVD- TrueHD logo blinking on my Onkyo. NO AUDIO WHATSOEVER. Anyone know what might be going on here?

2) Where do I go to start the tutorial on how to calibrate some of the basic video settings for the input? (brightness/contrast etc etc) On the back of the box I see "a quick setup option, a 97 minute overview of the basics of HDTV, blah blah. I don't see any of this in the menu. Just a bunch of patterns.

A very poorly orgranized disc it seems, and I don't even know where to start to get my display/audio calibrated. :confused:

1) Each time I go to a menu and run the patterns or video with people talking or program I get the DVD- TrueHD logo blinking on my Onkyo. NO AUDIO WHATSOEVER. Anyone know what might be going on here?


I noticed this also on two Blu-ray players. I'm curious to know what is going on.

I noticed that when I set the brightness using the Pluge on the disc, my 2% bar is always much brighter than the black background. At the end of the instructions, it tells you that if that's the case to "adjust the brightness until the black background is above the clip." Does that just mean to turn the brightness so that the 2% bar isn't visible on the black background anymore?

Just got this disc a few days ago. I have the Avia SD DVD, but I wanted to make sure my BenQ 1080p W10000 was set up properly with my Panny BD30 Blu-ray player. Surprisingly enough, in the Cinema mode, there was very little that needed adjusting in either the contrast, brightness or color. Brightness needed to come down a couple of clicks and contrast 1 click is all. According to color filters, my color was pretty much right on. Nice disc, and had no trouble navigating the menu as long as I chose "Play All ". The demonstration material is dazzling.

I'm new to calibration and found this DVD to not be too user friendly, but I'm working on it. Have the blu-ray version, and set blacklevel/contrast fairly easily, but after that it wasnt very self explanatory. I've gone the whole way through and still am not comfortable with the color and geometry patters. Especially the advanced patterns that aren't discussed before! Is there a guide for the blu-ray version or are we in the process of making one? *Laughs*

Is there a guide for the blu-ray version or are we in the process of making one?
See posts 5 and 59 of this thread.

Hi everyone,

I've had the BD Video Essentials disc for months without using it. I finally had time today and am getting really bad video on it. Lots of vertical lines throughout. Looks almost like a bad video tape copy. Is this a quirk of the disc or do I have a bad disc?

Thanks!