http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/03/prweb802884.htm

Cirlinca Launches First DVD-Audio Authoring Plug-in for Windows Media Player

San Francisco, CA (PRWEB) March 26, 2008 -- Cirlinca (http://www.cirlinca.com/), leader in consumer and prosumer DVD-Audio authoring software, announces today DVD-Audio Solo WMP (http://www.cirlinca.com/products.htm), the plug-in version for Microsoft Windows Media Player of its press nominated DVD-Audio Solo authoring software.

Windows Media Player's users can now create high definition and surround music DVD discs, easily and affordably. Available as a plug-in, DVD-Audio Solo WMP features a streamlined user interface within Windows Media Player to burn playlists to DVD-Audio discs in as few as three clicks.

DVD-Audio Solo WMP meets the increasing excitement and awareness for high definition media with support for audio tracks up to 24 bit/192 kHz, 5.1 channels, from a variety of audio file formats. As an option, still pictures can be associated to tracks. In a typical use case, DVD-Audio Solo WMP provides the last but not least step in a download to burn delivery chain from a high definition music download site.

Essential DVD-Audio Solo WMP Features:

* User interface in the "Now Playing" pane of the Windows Media Player
* Direct import of Windows Media Player's playlists, 1 to 9 playlists, 1 to 99 tracks per playlist, for a maximum total track count of 314.
* Gapless playback between tracks
* Input audio file formats supported: WAV, WMA (non DRM), FLAC, AIF, MP3 and OGG
* Sampling frequencies, sample sizes and channels supported: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192 kHz, 16 bit or 24 bit sample size, 1 to 6 channel (not all combinations permitted, 5.1 up to 16/96)
* Integrated DVD writing engine to write directly to DVD disc using a standard DVD writer. Disc types supported : DVD /-R/W and DVD R DL (Double Layer)
* Supported operating systems: Microsoft's Windows 2000, NT, 2003 server, XP, Vista

DVD-Audio Solo WMP is priced at U.S. $39.95

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look out for the DVD-A of my kazoo cover versions of the rock classics soon... :D

Ok, here's my rant:

Authoring the dvd-audio format for consumers and prosumers is F***ed because to even author 24-bit 96kHz 6-channel tracks (one of the main reasons for DVD having-audio) you need to pay for expensive MLP encoding licensed-software. The DVD format has too low a bitrate and so for the best resolution that it offers, you need to compress it with MLP. See any mention of MLP in this press release?

The format, at the end of the day, is closed and for this reason, I am looking ahead to blu-ray as being the consumer-friendly format to author in, because you can burn plain old PCM WAV with free and open-source software. Heck, you can even decode MLP tracks from a DVD-A disc to WAV and just author it as WAV.

The people who make these formats should have had better business sense and allowed people to author in the format. It would have increased consumer interest. But NO- they make it closed, so we have to resort to either simply not being able to author our own 24-bit 96kHz 6-channel audio (uh yeah,I want that option), or we are forced to pirate MLP encoding and MLP burning software such as DigionAudio2 Professional (discontinued but on file-sharing networks) and Discwelder Chrome (alive and well but, oh, just $2500). Great solution!

I'm sorry, I have my own tracks recorded in 96kHz, I'm not going to bow down to Circlinka and say "48kHz in surround is fine for me". Nup, it's not and so this format is not. Currently, the cheapest MLP encoding software is only $5000 (surcode). DigionAdudio2 Professional was $900, much easier to use (yet using the same powerful encoder), but discontinued now.

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thanks for the info SC, good to know anyway. :)

MLP is not a requirement for DVD-A is it? its necessary to do 96/24/5.1 but not 48/24/5.1

I guess you have to put your own 96/24 on BluRays

Ok, here's my rant:

Authoring the dvd-audio format for consumers and prosumers is F***ed because to even author 24-bit 96kHz 6-channel tracks (one of the main reasons for DVD having-audio) you need to pay for expensive MLP encoding licensed-software. The DVD format has too low a bitrate and so for the best resolution that it offers, you need to compress it with MLP. See any mention of MLP in this press release?

The format, at the end of the day, is closed and for this reason, I am looking ahead to blu-ray as being the consumer-friendly format to author in, because you can burn plain old PCM WAV with free and open-source software. Heck, you can even decode MLP tracks from a DVD-A disc to WAV and just author it as WAV.

The people who make these formats should have had better business sense and allowed people to author in the format. It would have increased consumer interest. But NO- they make it closed, so we have to resort to either simply not being able to author our own 24-bit 96kHz 6-channel audio (uh yeah,I want that option), or we are forced to pirate MLP encoding and MLP burning software such as DigionAudio2 Professional (discontinued but on file-sharing networks) and Discwelder Chrome (alive and well but, oh, just $2500). Great solution!

I'm sorry, I have my own tracks recorded in 96kHz, I'm not going to bow down to Circlinka and say "48kHz in surround is fine for me". Nup, it's not and so this format is not. Currently, the cheapest MLP encoding software is only $5000 (surcode). DigionAdudio2 Professional was $900, much easier to use (yet using the same powerful encoder), but discontinued now.

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thanks for the info SC, good to know anyway. :)

Dear me.
I am very sorry that you feel Blu Ray is the way forward, because it isn't.
None of the consumer grade BD-R and BD-RE applications support DTS-HD MAS or Dolby True HD.
Dolby True HD encoder suite is $10,000 and is Mac OSX only.
The sole applications that can be used to create replicable - IE, released, discs are either
1 - Sonic Scenarist 4 and
2 - Sony Blu Print.
Scenarist 4 is $150,000 plus service contract (or no support at all) and the site license for AACS is another serious amount of money payable per annum.
Blu Print is close to $300,000 plus mandatory service contract at either $7,500 or $10,000 and again subject to the authoring house AACS site license.

That's close to $500,000 by the time you have all the necessary stuff in place including hardware. Just for the authoring house.
Per disc, you also need the following things as AACS is mandatory on Blu Ray (IMHO the sole reason Hollywood went for this bloated, ****-up format in the first place)
AACS Content license (Payable by the content owner) $3,000 per title
Content Certification = $3,000
AACS Media Key = $200
Glass Mastering - 25Gb disc = $3,000
Glass Mastering - 50Gb disc = $4,800

This is all before you press a single disc.
Tell me how many independant labels can afford this layout?
And how many large labels will shell out this much on a format that is underwhelming in it's take-up?

Blu Ray is a video format for Large companies.
Nobody else can afford to play.
If you honestly believe this is the future for surround Audio, you are deluded.


Cirlinca, on the other hand, are trying to do something for the consumer here and all you can do is sneer. Sony never did anything for anyone apart from their shareholders.
Blu Ray, on apps like Encore & Sonic DVDit HD, are for BD-R and BD-RE only.
There are massive implications here, as you cannot replicate from these applications. The content is not up to standard.
So Sony have effectively created a 2-tier system. One for the rich companies, and a heavily stripped-down version for the end user. You cannot even play a Blu Ray folder out of the latest software versions of things like PowerDVD either, as this functionality has been removed.

Or will you just pirate Sonic's Scenarist - your post seems to imply that this is how you think, and if that is indeed the case then it is entirely because of people like you that DRM is killing things. Nobody "forces" you to pirate anything. That is a decision you make all on your own.
And don't blame anyone apart from DOlby Labs for the cost of MLP encoders - they are the ones who set the licensing fees.
Blu Ray will cost you the price of an MLP encoder - and much more besides - on a per title basis.

I am not interested in replicable discs, Neil, nor am I in DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD. Are you interested in DTS/Dolby? I am only interested in PCM, and any small label interested in music-only blu-rays would be too - unless for some weird reason they need to fit more than four hours of 24-bit 96kHz 6-channel music on one BD-25, or more than eight hours of such audio on a BD-50.

The only thing holding it back right now, for ME, the prosumer, is the cost of blank consumer discs by TDK, Verbatim etc. but I see it as going down exactly the same path as DVD, as we see more and more blu-ray readers, and eventually writers, in PCs and laptops. Blue laser diodes are getting cheaper, and so is all technology associated with blu-ray.

I must assert again Neil, Independant labels would not be interested in DTS-HD MA/TrueHD. Those are formats only meant to be produced for movie discs by the big hollywood studios - only in order to fit more content on the disc/allow for more room for video in the bitrate/sell new AV receivers/any other insidious reason. IMO 200GB Blu-ray should be pushed, and then smaller independent film studios would definitely not have to worry about space....not too sure about how the bitrate limit would go with 1080p AVC and uncompressed PCM audio (but with 48kHz as standard it should be fine). But I'm only interested in music production here anyway. And if DTS and Dolby are going to charge so much for their hi-def encoders, well then they themselves clearly don't intend their codecs to be used by smaller music industry/prosumers.

And replicable discs - can Discwelder Chrome create replicable DVD-A discs? You use it, right? well, if it can, which I'm assuming since you stress the need for it, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar-priced blu-ray solution would come out in time - especially since it's a much bigger format. So for small labels, I don't see it as a problem.

And as for AACS, you seem to be quite against it, so why see the need for it at all? The majority of consumers are interested in buying the disc, not pirating it. But if a small label absolutely wants it, well I just reduced an unnecessary $150,000 investment off their shoulders, so it's not looking too bad now.

My honest opinion is that you must not let your hate for Sony (which surely resonates in us all to a degree), affect your judgement of the potential of this format. I can't see how it's a bloated, ****-up format. I think you will have to either accept it eventually, or be an early downloads embracer, because guess what, there's no indication of blu-ray's adoption slowing, and until there is, you can not claim that it is not the way forward, because I just showed clearly that for independent label/prosumer authoring, it IS a way forward. It's BETTER than DVD-Audio. What's more, it allows for 24/96/7.1ch for us to experiment in, and PCM still fits within the bitrate limits, and 3 hours on BD-25 and 6 hours on BD-50.

And I'm sure you understand I don't hate the DVD-Audio format, I'm just saying that I'm personally ready to move on soon, as soon as the time is right to get a blu-ray writer and blanc discs.

Ok, here's my rant:

Authoring the dvd-audio format for consumers and prosumers is F***ed because to even author 24-bit 96kHz 6-channel tracks (one of the main reasons for DVD having-audio) you need to pay for expensive MLP encoding licensed-software. ...... :)

Well, You can make DVD-A's in 4.0 at 24/96, and 5.1 at 24/48 without MLP. Although you ARE correct about 24/96 5.1.

Still, that's not bad and can be done with fairly cheap software (Wavelab, DiscWelder, etc)

Anything (besides a computer) that plays 5.1 24/96 Flac ?

Whilst it is possible to produce replicable output from discWelder Chrome, I do not use it for many reasons. I use SOnic's DVD-Audio Creator, as it is the only product available that gives full access to the whole spec, and maintains high quality throughout. Chrome kills all images in custom menus - the compression is horrible (just look at the new Ringo Starr DVD-A for examples) and it has many bugs caused by the Abstraction Layer format it uses for authoring.
All I use it for are quick & dirty mix test discs these days.

With Blu Ray, you are completely missing the point, as all Blu Ray apologists seem to do.
AACS is mandatory on released content. This means that if you want replicated discs it is a no-choice thing - and that means you must spend megabux on authoring applications. Period. And this is not going to change
Selling BD-R and BD-RE discs is
A - non profitable, and
B - the fastest way to lose your customers, as they are unreliable to the point of being completely untrustworthy. They will not play on more players than they will play on. Sell these, and you will lose all your clients in a hurry.
Don't believe this? go look at any forum dealing with consumer grade Blu Ray authoring tools. And that is what they are - for those with "HD" camcorders. NOT for retail authoring - for that, you need Scenarist or Blu Print.

As far as cheap, replicable authoring packages go - dream on. Sony have a monopoly now, and this is not going to happen. They have lost too much money (close to $3 billion in the PS3 division alone in the last 21 months) to allow this to happen and there is also a lawsuit against all Blue Laser manufacturers right now - and they will lose (the plaintiff has a track record of beating large corporations who steal her patents) so that will mean yet more outlay.
See http://mrontemp.blogspot.com/2008/03/update-on-gertrude-neumark-rothschild.html
for the details. She invented this, they stole it & she is PISSED to the MAX.

This is cold, hard fact. Not hatred for Sony.

....And this is not going to change...

...this is not going to happen...



How can you predict the future like that Neil? We have no choice but to wait and see. I will dream on, because I see it as very likely that mid-range apps will come out that have replicated disc capability.
It already has a larger consumer base than DVD-Audio or SACD ever did, every week we hear about more and more smaller studios jumping onto blu-ray wth new releases announced, and certain software companies are going to want to make cash from this increasing user base for blu-ray authoring.

Besides...for now, independents can just hire mastering/authoring houses, right?...(like you!)

Sorry about that, I didn't know AACS was mandatory for released blu-ray titles...but that alone is not out of reach of small studios. And I am confident that there will be MORE than one blu-ray authoring app parallel to Discwelder Chrome, in fact I anticipate that there will be several, that they will compete like mid-range DVD authoring apps do, and that they will therefore be updated often and not have drawbacks such as you described in discwelder, which has a very small user base, and doesn't have any competitors in its price range.

I am optimistic about this, but you are pessimistic. This is because, ok, I'll say it differently, you hate what Sony's done, and so you hope the format will fall to the ground and kiss the dust, and teach them a lesson. Which is fine. I however appreciate the format on a consumer level and hope it thrives and replaces DVD. Only time will tell, not you or me. Blu-ray is a "popular" (mainstream) format, not some experiment in screwing consumers, and so lots of software companies will want to have authoring licences and sell competitive affordable apps to independents for their own long term use. How is it a Sony monopoly? There's already two, not one top-grade blu-ray authoring apps, and Sony can't stop other companies from buying a licence and making cheaper apps with not every single bell and whistle (esp ones like PiP and IME which are not only pointless for movies but especially for music discs). In fact, there's nothing stopping them from making music-oriented blu-ray authoring apps, for people who want to follow in the footsteps of NIN. This is not a monopoloy, it's called free market or free capitalism or something...

...Besides, this thread is about news of a consumer-grade dvd-audio authoring app - and at the very least I'm saying that on this level, at the bottom of the food chain (or is it the top? :)), blu-ray is a better format for what they are offering. And that's also a fact.

How is it a Sony monopoly? There's already two, not one top-grade blu-ray authoring apps, and Sony can't stop other companies from buying a licence and making cheaper apps with not every single bell and whistle (esp ones like PiP and IME which are not only pointless for movies but especially for music discs). In fact, there's nothing stopping them from making music-oriented blu-ray authoring apps, for people who want to follow in the footsteps of NIN.

Have you ever seen a Blu Ray replication license?
No - probably not. I have.
Sony control the replication format completely. Period.
They reserve the right to refuse to replicate any output from any application as "not technically up to scratch", and will refuse the license to any they see fit to.
Apart from Blu Print & Scenarist, there is nothing else, and there is not likely to be either. Sonic have a deal with Sony, other companies did have a similar deal but had their licenses revoked by Sony. With such a final say in the matter, anyone who thinks it is NOT a Sony monopoly has their head right in the sand.

I also question your comment about it being successful as a format. It's performance in the market is underwhelming to say the least, and if Sony remove PS3 sales from the "Blu Ray players sold" figures, the numbers are considerably less than the number of HD DVD players sold. By a long, long way. Sony cheated and lied to get things going (surprise, surprise there) and Toshiba lost their bottle. No loss there either.

Still, you believe in this if you want to. Personally, I think it is right up there with the Easter Bunny & Santa Claus.

You also do not comment on the lawsuit.....

Ok. Well you've shown how they are "controlling" the top-grade market....after all, there's always only one or two "complete spec" apps for any format, and always at least with sonic included there...who obviously must do a deal with whoever licences the particular format in question (Toshiba with DVD-Audio, I believe). So Sony can keep a monolopy in the top-end market - fine with me.

But what you haven't mentioned, and cannot deny, is that mid-range apps would not compete against the two top-range apps anyway. In other words, there's a whole sub-market waiting for Sony, of studios who wouldn't touch the expensive Scenarist/Blu Print with a 50-foot pole in the first place. Instead they would absolutely buy apps which are 'good enough for them' (which I've already shown is likely given blu-ray's already greater success than dvd-audio, so there won't be problems like with discwelder chrome)...and that Sony would be making money out of, probably quite a bit actually, so they're not going to restrict the market like you're saying. They want to make MONEY!

And (definitely small) music studios wouldn't be interested in accessing every single little bitty bit of the blu-ray spec. Just the ones concerning music and whatever's required for reliable, respectable, working discs, etc. (and software company x could offer plugins for TrueHD/DTS anyway, like surcode is with minnetonka)

So Neil, again, this comes down to whether you want blu-ray to succeed or not...simple as that. The whole format war forum battles showed time and time again that people will make predictions, judgements and claims which are distorted and heavily based on their "bias". I have admitted my "bias" (if that is what we must call preferring the only high definition video format/audio-with-PCM-at-24-bit-96-kHz-5.1-7.1ch disc format currently available). You now must admit that on your side. Please, it's obvious. I'm only being logical, and trying not to get heated at all. If I said all that's on my mind, this discussion would stop/get downright immature, which would be silly.


Ok, so you want me to comment on the lawsuit...:)...the first thing that comes into my mind, is that there was one certain involved large electronics company not sued by this lady, which she had worked at/with (or maybe still works for) closely...funny that! (can't remember where I read that...anyone have a link?)
Anyway, that's irrelevant. And so is the whole lawsuit - why would you think it's going to stop the blu-ray format? lol! They'll just pay her out of court, she'll be loaded and everything will go back to normal the next day...lol. And it' snot just BLDs she's suing about, but LEDs too...mobile products also are concerned. And it's just a lawsuit...AGAIN - If you don't believe blu-ray will succeed in the long-term, yeah, sure, this is yet another thing to put Sony in more debt, but please, I DO believe that blu-ray will succeed...so it's irrelevant to me.

I think it's great there's an inexpesive app out to author dvd-audio discs. It's too bad there's not a reasonably price app which can do take mlp at full 96/24, but I guess you can't expect a $40 app to do everything a $3000 plus application does. For those of us who are simply using this to make our own back-ups and mixed music discs it's great. I only wish the higher priced alternatives were as easy to use as Cirilinca's application.

For MLP encoding, I would have thought a sensible route would be for people like Neil who have MLP encoders to offer MLP encoding as a reasonably-priced service for people using cheap DVD-authoring programs. It's not much harder than dropping 6 WAV files into a dialogue box and pressing "Go", so wouldn't have to be that expensive a service - it's one of the simplest parts of DVD-authoring from the author's point of view. I've not seen anyone advertising this though.

Though there are still limits, aren't there? Wotsit Bronze doesn't accept MLP, if I recall correctly. Still, it would be cheaper than buying your own MLP encoder.

Agree w/ David Scott.

I'm not sure we're assessing this in its proper context - its for enthusiasts who want to record multichannel or hirez audio for themselves. I suppose Cirlinca could distribute the plugin (its just a plugin, TBH) - with a MLP encoder option, but how much sense would that make tagging on a $3,000 option on a $39.90 product?