Hi, I am a long time reader, first time poster.

Spring is on the way, so I am thinking to start finishing my basement with a dedicated HT that I have been dreaming ever since I came to this forum. I know the debates, the arguments and ups and downs of pulling or not pulling the permits, but I don't want get into any troubles in the future, so I went to my township to get some information about permits. Little did I know, the Township has very strict rules on finishing basement and steep fees for the permits. The township has a pamphlet of basement finishing instructions and what permits and fees are required. Here are some highlights:

1. Total 4 permits are required, namely, Construction, Electrical, Mechanical and Plumbing (if you put a bathroom or wet bar in the basement)
2. Basement finished in whole or part requires egress and every sleeping room requires at least one egress with a clear opening of 5.7 sq. ft. and if below grade, 5.0 sq. ft. at grade, and a sill height of 44 inches.
3. Mechanical room for 1 heater and 1 water boiler must have minimum size of 80 sq. ft.
4. You need a HVAC contractor to provide signed statement that the existing unit is able to maintain 68F above the floor throughout the house including finished basement, if not, plan of alternative method of heating must be submitted. All supply/return layout of each finished room with duct size and all supply registers and return grills in walls/ceilings should be provided by HVAC contractor.
5. Plan for bathroom shows all fixtures/clearances, pump, pits and method of venting.
6. Electrical plan shows circuit, number of lights, switches, receptacles and smoke detectors.

Now comes to the fee part:
- Building permit, $.30 per sf. ft.
- Mechanical and Electrical permit, based on the cost of construction: $45 under $1K, $75 from $1K to $2.5K, $110 from $2.5K to $5K, $155 from $5K to $7.5K, $235 from $7.5K to 10K and above $10K construction cost, $17 per $1K.
- Plumbing Permit, $20 per fixture/ trap/cutout/tap/waste line/supply line/pit/pump, etc.
- Maybe (I am not sure) Use and Occupancy permit, $75 per unit, $50 re-inspection.

Now the scary part, WHAT HAPPENS IF STARTING CONSTRUCTION WITHOUT A PERMIT?
According to the instruction, the first thing is that you will be issued a stop work order, and you need to place it on your property so all your neighbors can see this bright red card. Then you will need to secure a permit immediately and will be charged DOUBLE what the normal permit fee at the time as penalty for not securing the permit first. If you choose to ignore the Stop Work Order, then a summary of citation will be issued where you have to appear in front of the local district magistrate to face possible penalties of $1000 per day per violation for each day that you are in violation. Lastly, when you sell your house, a certificate of compliance is required by the Township, all structures built without permit may be noted and again you will be forced to secure building permit and may have to pay additional penalties.

Now, the first headache is the egress. I don't have a walkout basement, mine is mostly below the grade with only two small windows of 32"Wx17"H above the grade, which means the first order of the business is to find some one to cut a bigger window for me to meet the egress code which is the first big cost (I am not sure how much but it won't be cheap considering that they have to bring some heavy machineries to dig the hole for the egress, the big wet saw for cutting the hole poured concrete basement wall, the crane to lift and drop the pre-fabricated concrete stairs and the new door/window, etc) . Then I need to find a HVAC contractor to come over to estimate if my existing HVAC unit is capable of heating/cooling the entire house including the finished basement, (I may need to relocate the HVAC unit and water heater and re-route duck work) which is a another cost even before I submit the plan. The fees for the permits are not cheap considering my Township charges those fees based on the cost (forget about including GG, DD, Acoustic insulation kind of fancy stuff into the costs), the square footage, the number of fixtures, etc, so it adds up pretty steep, I have not calculated the total yet, but I figure the permit fees alone will set me back around $1000 to $1200 or maybe more.

Oh well, I want pull the permit and be perfectly legal, but all the troubles and costs, my township just won't make anyone going that route easy.

I know that for many of our fellow AVSers, pulling permits is really easy and not expensive, I just wonder how many of the you here have the similar situation with your township and the dilemma that I have.

Thanks.

Do a search and you will find plenty of pro' and con's on permits. There are a couple threads on permits a few pages back.

It cost me $4,000 to have a egress window and window well put in. Besides the saw, no power tools involved. The hole was all dug by hand. So it may not be as bad as you think. Egress doesn't have to mean walk-out.

I always wonder how they would find out you started early, unless a neighbvor rats you out or you leave a bunch of construction debris out in driveway or on your lawn where it can be seen.

Usually, it's the electric that requires a contractor. Weird.

On my county's website they ask for all kinds of drawings and when I went to get the permit with my CAD drawings, they handed me a bunch of new forms and said, "we don't need those. Just go over there and draw your plan on THESE forms." And when I went to pay, they asked me how much it would cost and the guy and the counter kweot saying things like, "Well it doesn't cost THAT much just to put up drywall, does it? As long as the walls are drywalled, the room is considered "finished."" As I recall, it cost less than $200 for HVAC, Plumbing, Electric and Framing. Of course at the time, this county was the fastest growing county in the U.S.

Good luck,
Tom

Personally I think the idea of an emergency exit in the basement is common sense. Imagine the whole family in the basement watching the thanksgiving day parade. Something goes wrong with the oven/big bird in the kitchen and a fire starts and before you notice it, the top of the stairs is blocked with flames.

I'm with BigmouthinDC. You really need to separate two issues. One is permits. The other is code compliance.

There are many folks in this forum that have done work without permits. In some cases, local jurisdictions don't require them, or 'nobody does it and nobody cares', or it's too expensive, or too much of a hassle.

However, ignoring code is a completely separate issue. I'm doing some electrical changes that were not described in my original permit. I am very carefully following code, however, as (most) of the electrical code is just a collection of best practices to avoid fires and electrocution, both for you and for future owners.

In some cases people are ignoring code, but usually it's the exception. An example might a local code that doesn't make sense (can't create an HT in an interior room with no exterior window because someday it might be used as a bedroom) and where code is too rigid to allow reasonable alternatives that meet the spirit and intent of the code.

By the way, your permit fees as stated above don't sound unreasonable. They are in line with mine here in an Austin suburb, including the 'double fees' if you start without a permit. Consider yourself lucky you can get them. I've heard a rumor that Austin will no longer issue permits to anybody who isn't licensed with the city. Sounds like a good way to guarantee there will be many fewer permits drawn for small self-remodels.

In my area, if you attempt to sell a house with work done that didn't have a permit, nobody will care and nobody will notice. If you attempt to sell a house that doesn't meet local code in any visible way (like lack of egress), I would expect that the buyer's house inspector will notice the problem and either require you to fix it, or use it as a lever to force you to lower your price.

I would put in the extra egress or find some alternative. You get a fire in the equipment rack in the back of the room blocking the stairs and it will ruin your day real quick.

On the egress window I'm not sure if you have to go the big concrete assembly route. You might be able to get by with one of those fiberglass/plastic deep window well emergency exit models. You will have to check your code.

Here is just one pic I found of a Polyethylene model

http://www.wellcraftwells.com/images/redchair.jpg

http://www.wellcraftwells.com/images/intro_pics_002.jpg

I'm with the Gentlemen from Northern Virginia. Pulling permits may be a bit expensive, but the alternatives surely aren't a little expensive...they can get really expensive.

I learned a few days ago that my town has the garbage men report significant construction debris in trash pickup when they can not see a permit on the front window. Apparently, they follow up on these to make sure that no permit-requiring construction was happening (that they were missing revenue from).

I cna't believe that they actually do this, but my source is associated with the city government.

Seems like you can't afford to not pull permits.

I'm following the "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy myself. However, my home was built in 05-06 but we came in on the tail end of the build. All that was left was HVAC and finishig the wood floors and picking out carpet (this had its +'s & -'s).

I requested the builder to give me a copy of the plans/blueprints as I would like to have them for future reference if I ever needed it. They gave me a copy of a handsketched structure with very little detail. I said don't you have actual blueprints and their response was that they do so much of this type of homebuilding that they don't have individual plans for every project. So if it ever comes up I can always say that the space the basement was already finished and I simply made it my own :p.

In my town we take our own trash to a transfer station so no worries there. Neighbor is a retired plumber who doesn't seem to like to deal with inspectors. Another friend is a plumber who does inspections in a different town and lent me some of his tools for some pex tubing work and thought it was no big deal. HVAC contractor who gave me a quote wasn't planning on getting a permit, unless I wanted it (ended up doing it myself with a friend).

Having said all that, I do make sure that everything is up to code so if there are any issues down the line it should be ok as far as that. Second egress is a must... Good luck.

I'm with the Gentlemen from Northern Virginia. Pulling permits may be a bit expensive, but the alternatives surely aren't a little expensive...they can get really expensive.

I learned a few days ago that my town has the garbage men report significant construction debris in trash pickup when they can not see a permit on the front window. Apparently, they follow up on these to make sure that no permit-requiring construction was happening (that they were missing revenue from).

I cna't believe that they actually do this, but my source is associated with the city government.

that wouldn't surprise me if people are throwing away large pieces uncovered. I can't imagine they looking in bags, though, so if you break everything down to fit in bags you should be ok I would think. You could always bag and then go to the dump.

Funny you should mention breaking it down into bags. Apparently CheapMonkey (another VA builder) smuggled all of his trash out (ripped out all of the drywall in the basement) in small trash bags so that his home owners association would find out about the construction. I'll let him tell the story as I'm not doing it justice.

I'm with the Gentlemen from Northern Virginia. Pulling permits may be a bit expensive, but the alternatives surely aren't a little expensive...they can get really expensive.

I learned a few days ago that my town has the garbage men report significant construction debris in trash pickup when they can not see a permit on the front window. Apparently, they follow up on these to make sure that no permit-requiring construction was happening (that they were missing revenue from).

I can't believe that they actually do this, but my source is associated with the city government.


What country do some of you people live in? Formar Iraq? So do you really beleive in the USA a garbage man can file a report of some drywall in the trash and the building department can enter your property and search? What happened to serach warrants, due cause, etc. Now a cut off arm or body part, expect a knock on the door with a warrant in hand. But drywall or lumber scraps???

Now within the law they can call and threaten you hoping that most people will cave in and admit their basement model. But you can also tell themn to Foff and what I do in my house is none of your business. If they suspect illegal activity, then send the Sherrif or Marshall with a court warrant. Otherwise again Foff.

I find it hard to believe any judge will issue a warrant based on some pieces of drywall. The legal risks of an owner backlash of there is no construction in progress are just too great.

As far as selling the property goes, as long as the work is up to code at the estimated time of construction, nobody will ask for a permit. The longer the time after the remodle is done, the easiert this is. Who's to say it wasn't there from the beginning? Does the county or city keep as built pictures on file? Just try to get a plan set for any home or private building from the city. You can't because they don't have them. So where does the inspector get one to prove the work was an unpermitted remodel? The only way is if there rae obvious code violations.

On the egress window I'm not sure if you have to go the big concrete assembly route. You might be able to get by with one of those fiberglass/plastic deep window well emergency exit models. You will have to check your code.

Here is just one pic I found of a Polyethylene model

http://www.wellcraftwells.com/images/redchair.jpg

http://www.wellcraftwells.com/images/intro_pics_002.jpg

Thanks. I called a local company and I was quoted $5000 for either walkout egress or egress window, ouch!

Anyway, I went online search DIY basement egress reads, it does not seem to be a very difficult job, I had done my stone paver patio with curved walkway and half round raised tier, a lot of cuts with the wet saw, so I think if I can rent a bigger wet saw from Home Depot or somewhere else, I can do the job myself. I can just use one existing small window which is 32x17", cut down additional foot or so, it should meet the code, Home Deport may also carry the window well, I will check it out this weekend.

What country do some of you people live in?

They're in Virginia.

If you think this is bad you should have seen the traffic laws they repealed a few days ago (after public outrage and a state supreme court ruling against the legislature).

be careful walkinator, before you go cutting into your foundation, make sure you talk to someone. You might end up collapsing the whole window if you make the span too long.....

Just a pearl of wisdom I picked up from Michael's thread (I think).

You make the bottom cut FIRST then the side cuts. If you cut the the sides first then attack the bottom the weight of the cut out will come down on the blade and you will be a in a Hell of a mess.

While it is something that you might be able to do by renting a saw I think I would get/hire someone with hands on experience to help or just do the cut for you.

be careful walkinator, before you go cutting into your foundation, make sure you talk to someone. You might end up collapsing the whole window if you make the span too long.....

Thanks for the advice. I will use the existing window opening, just cut down more not cut wider, I think it should be OK. The code says egress requires minimum width of 20 inches and height of 24 inches, and maximum 44 inches sill height above the floor, total size of the opening is 5.7 sq. ft minimum. My existing window opening is 32 inches in width, so I only need to cut down to increase the height of egress window. I read somewhere that if egress opening is wider than 48 inches then you need to have additional head support and it is better to have the opening on the side that is parallel to the joist.

I have two windows of the same size, one is parallel to the joist opening to the right side of the side yard, the other is perpendicular to the joist opening to the back yard. Unfortunately, locations of both window are in the home theater room, one will be on long side of the HT room and other will be on short side of the HT room, and there is a sump pump in that corner too. So I think to best use of the space, I will put a wall to make a small space of 3'x14' for accessing sump pump, radon reducing system and emergency escape (egress). I have to compromise my design this way because I will loose 3 feet of HT, but I still be able to have a decent space of 14'x20', if I relocate the furnace, I can gain additional 3-5 feet of length. Oh well, will see.

Just a pearl of wisdom I picked up from Michael's thread (I think).

You make the bottom cut FIRST then the side cuts. If you cut the the sides first then attack the bottom the weight of the cut out will come down on the blade and you will be a in a Hell of a mess.

While it is something that you might be able to do by renting a saw I think I would get/hire someone with hands on experience to help or just do the cut for you.

BIGmouthinDC, that is a great tips, I make sure that I remember it! Thanks. My co-worker's friend have some one done the egress for him, cost only about $1000, my co-worker will help me to find that guy.

Funny you should mention breaking it down into bags. Apparently CheapMonkey (another VA builder) smuggled all of his trash out (ripped out all of the drywall in the basement) in small trash bags so that his home owners association would find out about the construction. I'll let him tell the story as I'm not doing it justice.

Hey, I can do that too:rolleyes:, I got a pickup truck so I just need to find where is the dumping yard. Fortunately, few houses including mine in my community do not belong to any home owner association.

Also, if you find it would be helpful, read the section in my build thread where I document the installation of the egress window. I tried to follow the crew step by step through the process.

Most cities/counties will let the home owner do the work, drywall, elec., plumbing, etc. by himself without a building permit. If you should have someone else do certain things for you, just make sure they know that "you" did it. I agree with some of the other posts, what they don't know won't hurt. I personally got away with building three good size structures on my property because the lady answering the phone wasn't authorized to give information on certain things. Long story short , she did, I built, and they can't tax me on the buildings. They aren't happy but a call to the state house made it all ok.
And you definitely want to do the egress. I can't recall ever charging as much as I have seen quoted here to install them, but how do you put a price on safety?

One last thing on the window egress. Don't under estimate the need to address the 100 year downpour. Think of that hole as a funnel, if you fill it up with water you know where it is going to go. So plan ahead.

Also, if you find it would be helpful, read the section in my build thread where I document the installation of the egress window. I tried to follow the crew step by step through the process.

Cathan, I went to your thread, it is really helpful with the pictures of your egress installation, couple of questions though, 1. Besides the digging part, how difficult it is the cutting part from your observation? 2. My situation is kind of exactly like yours, and from your pictures, I am pretty sure that I will end up with the type of window and size you have, and I think half of your egress window is above the grade, so do you plan to install any window well cover? Thanks.

One last thing on the window egress. Don't under estimate the need to address the 100 year downpour. Think of that hole as a funnel, if you fill it up with water you know where it is going to go. So plan ahead.

Yeah, that was in my mind too, I am worried about the drainage issue since if I choose to do the egress window, it will end up like Cathan's result, half the egress window above the grade. I find out this site (http://www.wellcraftwells.com/covers.php) carries dome cover which is neat to make the window well water tight.

The cement cutting didn't look too difficult. My major concern that that if i tried to do all the work on my own, it would have taken a good couple of weeks. I would not have been able to do the cutting and install a window in one day. Leaving a big hole in the side of the house just didn't seem like a good idea.

I do plan on ordering a cover. Finding a dome cover that is a perfect fit will be a bit difficult so in all likelihood I'll just get a flat cover. It just hasn't been high on my priority list. Your link shows the model. I just need to find a local place to buy one.

And as Jeff points out, plan on having the hole tied into drainage. Mine does. If you don't have the ability to do so, they would have installed a giant milk crate type box that would have served as a holding tank for excess rainwater until such time as the groundwater recedes.

I think If I had to do this I would.

1) make sure all the ground slopes away from the hole in all directions

2) make sure the gutters and down spouts in the area direct the water a very far distance away from the house.

3) Dig down a couple of feet extra and fill the bottom with course stone to act as a reservoir

4) install an electric mini sump pump drain in the gravel

5)Put a cover over the hole.

6) Install a water alarm to alert you to any problem

7) own a water pick up vac if all else fails.

I have a major addition project comming up. I wanted to pull all permits and do everything correct with it...

Then I was told by every contractor that my city makes you update many other things of a home before granting permit for additions. Well my home was built in 1950, so you can imagine where that went.

So I now find myself getting very creative with the project in respects to what I am building as far as the city is concerned and what permits need to be pulled for it.

Inside work on the new section will be my business and none of their's.

My wife and I were not about to finish the basement without egress, code or not (and as we do not have a bedroom in the basement, code did not require it). We know a family personally who had a fire and the kids were in the basement without egress - they did all get out safe.

We decided on installing per code, even if not required. We used an egress casement window. Luckily, the bottom of the window was still just over grade, but we needed a small well to move the ground 8" below the cut.

So, the concrete cutting and disposal was about $1k. (breakup and disposal took several times the time of the cut - the slab was 7'x5')

The window was about $700 (Vinyl clad wood Marvin - double wide unit).

Labor was about $700 plus me for 2 days.

Digging and finishing the well (adding a drain, gravel, landscape timbers) was about $900.

Total = $1000+$700+$700+900=$3300.

Light added to basement and safety = Priceless

I also think it earned me many brownie points with the building inspector.

db

I do plan on ordering a cover. Finding a dome cover that is a perfect fit will be a bit difficult so in all likelihood I'll just get a flat cover. It just hasn't been high on my priority list. Your link shows the model. I just need to find a local place to buy one.


So you motivated me to just find and buy that darn cover. I was able to special order it from a local place. Not cheap - $329.89 with tax (but free delivery).

Funny you should mention breaking it down into bags. Apparently CheapMonkey (another VA builder) smuggled all of his trash out (ripped out all of the drywall in the basement) in small trash bags so that his home owners association would find out about the construction. I'll let him tell the story as I'm not doing it justice.

Hah... I was reading this thread thinking, "this sounds familiar" then Cathan calls me out. My HA is pretty anal about things so, indeed, I have disposed of my basement in trash bags. Fortunately only the ceiling was drywall. The walls were all paneling, so that part was at least a little lighter. I call it the "Shawshank Method" because it's like what Tim Robbin's character did to tunnel out of Shawshank. One stone at a time... My friends are calling me Andy Dufresne.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2346292237_e1a53eb107.jpg?v=0

I highly recommend Glad "Force Flex" bags for your Shawshanking needs! Holes still might get poked in them, but they don't explode for the most part.

Now within the law they can call and threaten you hoping that most people will cave in and admit their basement model. But you can also tell themn to Foff and what I do in my house is none of your business. If they suspect illegal activity, then send the Sherrif or Marshall with a court warrant. Otherwise again Foff.



You are right, they could not get a warrant, but most people would just admit it because they are not thinking like that.

The other place you might get tripped up is when you sell your house and a home inspector comes by. This is where doing things to code helps as if it is all within code, there is no reason to even ask the question, but if things are found that are not and the guy want to be a pain the rear, it could get ugly if they check the local municiplity for a permit history. This is a remote possiblity but has happened to someone in this area and hte inspections dept made them cut holes everywhere just to look at electrical, etc, then they had to fix it.

This age old permit / no permit question where permits are normally required can be answered quite easily:

IF YOU HAVE TO ASK IF YOU REALLY NEED A PERMIT, THEN YES, YOU REALLY DO NEED ONE.

Because if you know a few things about the building trades and know how the system works, then you already know how to get around permits!

I hate permits but for My HT I could not get around it because it was a 750sqft addition. But it was permitted as a "recration room" and signed off empty with no carpet, just primer on the walls*. The HT buildout was done off permit. Another good reason to do it this way is for future sales. Not all home buyers are HT enthusiasts. If I need to I can tear the room back down to it's drywalled shell.

*Interesting that my county would not sign off on the project unless at least the walls ceiling were primed. They said raw uncovered drywall mud is a health hazard and not allowed in habited spaces.

I can't speak for your area, as your Town/County/State may have local laws regarding construction. However, I would like you to re-read the instructions and see if any of this is correct:

1. Typically, egress windows are required from bedrooms. Bedrooms being someplace you sleep. You don't sleep in a theater, so are egress windows required? What do the instructions state? More importantly, what does the local law or state code say? Instructions just can't be made up by the staff. There has to be a local law or code that is the premise for the instructions.

2. There are light and ventilation requirements (eg requirements for certain sq.ft. of glass (light) and openable windows (ventilation)). The small windows could be a problem. However, most codes have exceptions, such as a HRV instead of windows and light fixtures for lights (think about those interior offices in a skyscraper)...

3. Can't say much about the mech room size, although that doesn't sound like a bad idea. That must be a local law? Are you sure they're not saying you need 80 square inches of fresh air intake/exhaust? I wouldn't sweat the 80 sq.ft, if it's required.

4. #4, #5, #6 are all typical for a permit. I think you could get an hvac contractor to sign a letter without much trouble. If you're putting AC in for the theater make it a stipulation of your contract with him..

The fees here are comparable. I paid the per-fixture plumbing fees on a modular home that was inspected at the factory, so it could be worse!

As for the garbage man reporting debris to whoever; it's not beyond happening. Frankly, if you knock on somebody's door and just ask if they are doing work, most people will tell the truth.

As for a search warrant (administrative search warrant)-- I couldn't see it happening for noticing construction debris in the garbage once. However, that, coupled with somebody seeing you unload 60 2x4's and 20 sheets of drywall.. then an electrical contractors truck parked in the driveway for 3 days... maybe. Depends on whether or not the Judge is having a good day.

We also double the fees if work starts prior to permit.

You say permit is .30/sqft and then you say it's based on total cost? You can always fudge the total cost. I don't imagine they could actually check to see what it cost. I lowballed my permit cost and they questioned me. I told them it was the cost of materials and I was doing all the work myself (which was mostly true).

Tim

You don't sleep in a theater, so are egress windows required?

Only if you want to get your family out alive in case a fire blocks the stairs.

I always use the Thanksgiving Day Parade with the family gathered in the theater waiting for Santa to arrive. The sound is turned up in your sound-proofed theater.

Mama has the big bird in the oven and something goes wrong. Before you have a clue the top of the stairs is blocked with flames.

What are you going to say "well I didn't think we needed the egress because it wasn't a bedroom".

I can't speak for your area, as your Town/County/State may have local laws regarding construction. However, I would like you to re-read the instructions and see if any of this is correct:

1. Typically, egress windows are required from bedrooms. Bedrooms being someplace you sleep. You don't sleep in a theater, so are egress windows required? What do the instructions state? More importantly, what does the local law or state code say? Instructions just can't be made up by the staff. There has to be a local law or code that is the premise for the instructions.

2. There are light and ventilation requirements (eg requirements for certain sq.ft. of glass (light) and openable windows (ventilation)). The small windows could be a problem. However, most codes have exceptions, such as a HRV instead of windows and light fixtures for lights (think about those interior offices in a skyscraper)...

3. Can't say much about the mech room size, although that doesn't sound like a bad idea. That must be a local law? Are you sure they're not saying you need 80 square inches of fresh air intake/exhaust? I wouldn't sweat the 80 sq.ft, if it's required.

4. #4, #5, #6 are all typical for a permit. I think you could get an hvac contractor to sign a letter without much trouble. If you're putting AC in for the theater make it a stipulation of your contract with him..

The fees here are comparable. I paid the per-fixture plumbing fees on a modular home that was inspected at the factory, so it could be worse!

As for the garbage man reporting debris to whoever; it's not beyond happening. Frankly, if you knock on somebody's door and just ask if they are doing work, most people will tell the truth.

As for a search warrant (administrative search warrant)-- I couldn't see it happening for noticing construction debris in the garbage once. However, that, coupled with somebody seeing you unload 60 2x4's and 20 sheets of drywall.. then an electrical contractors truck parked in the driveway for 3 days... maybe. Depends on whether or not the Judge is having a good day.

We also double the fees if work starts prior to permit.

You say permit is .30/sqft and then you say it's based on total cost? You can always fudge the total cost. I don't imagine they could actually check to see what it cost. I lowballed my permit cost and they questioned me. I told them it was the cost of materials and I was doing all the work myself (which was mostly true).

Tim

As for egress, the code says egress is required for any finished part of the basement, if you have bed rooms in the basement, then each bed room requires its own egress. So, at minimum, I will need one egress since I don't plan to put bed room in the basement.

Didn't find anything about lighting or ventilation the space, except that it has to be heated above 68 F.

Mechanical room with one furnace and one water heater must be at least 80 sq ft, and in addition, code requires to have two 12"x30" grills for supplying air to the mechanical room that has any fossil fueled appliance (furnace, dryer, water heater, etc), one high and one low in wall(s).

Building permit fee is based on the size of finished area, $.30 per sq ft, electrical and mechanical permit fees are based on the total cost of construction of the finished basement (say, $10K construction cost, then electrical permit will cost $235 and mechanical permit for any HAVC job will also cost $235), plumping permit fee is based on number of fixtures. I am not familiar to how the permit fee is structured, so they might not be out of line with other areas in the country, but I was thinking around $200 at most since my $2K fence permit was only $20 which is about 1% of the cost, so by that formula, $200 permit fees translates to construction cost about $20K, so I was little bit of sticker shock when I read how those permit fees are calculated, but it is just me.

I am in planing and budgeting stage right now, egress is something that I did not budgeted in (and excessive permit fees as well), so when I find out it cost me $5k to have someone done for me, that just taking away my budget for a nice 1080p projector and a set of nice speakers, and maybe a 805 receiver, gee.

Well, like BigMouthDC and many others said, the safety should be not compromised, so permit or not, egress is something that I intend to do, I just have to figure how can I do it without cost me an arm and a leg.

My township has increased property tax quite a lot, when I moved in in 2001, it was $5k, this year, it approaching to $7k, with a finished basement, I wonder how much of my property tax will go up. Anyone?

Only if you want to get your family out alive in case a fire blocks the stairs.

I always use the Thanksgiving Day Parade with the family gathered in the theater waiting for Santa to arrive. The sound is turned up in your sound-proofed theater.

Mama has the big bird in the oven and something goes wrong. Before you have a clue the top of the stairs is blocked with flames.

What are you going to say "well I didn't think we needed the egress because it wasn't a bedroom".

You can 'what if' this to death-- the only thing that is certain is what the law states. What if a fire starts outside the door to your theater. Maybe windows inside the theater would be a good idea. Maybe you could sprinkler the means of egress as well. It's a matter of opinion.

I am not rendering an opinion on what should be done, I am simply asking what his law states. I know what it states in NY.

If you asked my opinion, early detection is just as important as egress, but nobody has mentioned it. In my opinion, money is better spent on smoke detectors- I would have a detector in the theater that is interconnected with the rest of the house. In my opinion, having a fire extinguisher handy is important. In my opinion, I agree that additional egress is a great idea.

I question whether it is required.

Tim

FWIW I found that PA has adopted the 2006 IRC, which requires basements with habitable space to have an emergency escape and rescue window or exterior door.

NY is 4 years behind, so I guess I'll be seeing that requirement in 2011 :)

Which could be a window, or a bulkhead door (bilco is listed for use as emergency escape) or door and areaway/stairs.

Tim

FWIW I found that PA has adopted the 2006 IRC, which requires basements with habitable space to have an emergency escape and rescue window or exterior door.

NY is 4 years behind, so I guess I'll be seeing that requirement in 2011 :)

Which could be a window, or a bulkhead door (bilco is listed for use as emergency escape) or door and areaway/stairs.

Tim

Yup, I think it was adopted some time in 2006 and my co-worker managed to pulled the permit before the new code became effective and at the time his basement was done, the new code was already in effective.

So you motivated me to just find and buy that darn cover. I was able to special order it from a local place. Not cheap - $329.89 with tax (but free delivery).

Michael, would you please post few pictures in your thread after you installed the dome cover? I wonder how it opens?

Michael, would you please post few pictures in your thread after you installed the dome cover? I wonder how it opens?

Sure will. I'm expecting it to be delivered tomorrow.

Now that you've done the code thing, be sure to put an outside cover over the egress area and put a sensor on that cover (and the window) tied back to your security system. The issue (home invasion, etc.) is that someone can conceal themselves from view in these basement egress areas and take all the time in the world to enter your home.

^^^^ well, now i may have trouble sleeping tonight! :)

Yup, I think it was adopted some time in 2006 and my co-worker managed to pulled the permit before the new code became effective and at the time his basement was done, the new code was already in effective.

For what it's worth, not all townships in PA have adopted the IBC. However, the state was giving every township "incentive" to adopt and by incentive, I mean they threatened to take money away from townships that didn't go with the IBC.

I believe some townships still use BOCA98 (or maybe BOCA96) in which you can get away with not having a secondary egress (the first being the stairs) as long as there are no bedrooms.

i too disposed off all my basement walls and ceiling (and first floor tile and carpet) via garbage bags. Loaded up the maxima and hauled it 45 miles to work and threw it out in our trash compactor. My HA is a pain too... i haven't pulled permits either. what they don't know won't hurt them, and besides, it was finished before so they don't know how it was done before me (it was horrible so i tore it all down and am starting over)... i am having to buy a new egress window, my old one leaks when the well filled up with water (drainage issues have been fixed now) but the window blew in last winter and shattered.

I can see if you do something outside the house, HA might have problem with it, but why is their concerns if you do some work inside your house?

I don't have HA issue fortunately. Last year I installed hardwood floor (living, dining, study room, 2nd floor hall way and stairs as well, beautiful Brazilian Chery wood, well, my dog ruin it already:(), I dumped old carpet and paddings along the street and was there for 3 days before the garbage truck came and picked up no problem. I still have some wood scraps from old stair treats and raisers in my garage that I was thinking I can used as firewood, but this winter I didn't use my fire place at all. But wait, they are pine wood, maybe not a good idea to use as firewood.

PS.
Speaking of which, anyone in Philly area want to do DIY hardwood floor, I can introduce you a place that sells all kind of hardwood floor products really cheap, mine was less than half the price of Home Depot or FloorUSA.