Hello,

I'm so lost right now and I heard this is the best place on the net for this kind of stuff. Please be advised that I'm not an audiophile or videophile so I hope I explain everything OK.

I just purchased a new townhouse. Before the drywall went up I had a subcontractor rough in central vac, alarm, and home theater wiring. Now that the construction has finished, the subcontractor has returned to complete everything. The central vac and alarm are good to go. he installed in-wall surround speakers. Those are good.

I asked him to create a box on the wall (call it a junction box - sorry, I don't know the correct term) so I can wall mount a LCD/plasma and have all the stuff there. This box runs behind the wall to another spot about 15 ft away where my HD box, DVD, stereo, etc will be located. I asked for composite cables, a couple HDMIs, etc. Pretty standard stuff I thought. Excited to see the job he's done, I was shocked to see that the wall mounted box (and its corresponding 'in' plugs across the wall where my hardware will go) consists of 5 coax plugs and two Cat 5e plugs.

Before I moved I had a pretty standard set up - a Sony SXRD on a stand with HDMI and component cables - pretty standard stuff.

Did I just get screwed over by this guy? I've been looking and nowhere can I find that hidef can be sent over coax. This guy maintains that "these are special coax" and you can run hi def over them. What are the Cat 5e cables for?

Sorry, I'm so lost :confused:

sounds like they used baluns. baluns convert signal from their regular cable type to ethernet cabling. you'll need to use a 2nd set of baluns at that end to convert back to regular cabling that will plug into your gear.

sounds like they used baluns. baluns convert signal from their regular cable type to ethernet cabling. you'll need to use a 2nd set of baluns at that end to convert back to regular cabling that will plug into your gear.

Thanks for the reply. How do you explain the 5 coax cables?

The coax can be fitted with RCA terminations to make a complete set of component cables including sound or you could use the f connector termination and then get rca adapaters from radio shack.

Like elvisizer mentions you could use baluns to make connections as well I believe they now have an HDMI one. I'll see what I can find.

If your just using a HD cable box then the coax/component will be fine. If your looking at Blu-Ray then HDMI is best way to go.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lashen.com/vendors/intelix/images/DIGI-HDMI.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lashen.com/vendors/intelix/AV-Cat5.asp&h=170&w=251&sz=9&hl=en&start=6&um=1&tbnid=19i3wJpgKXPSCM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhdmi%2Bbaluns%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

Hopefully your sub used cat6 cable as it is required for 1080p on the bottom unit on the link above.

Actually, you can send HD over coax. The five coax should be for RGB and LR audio. The termination type of coax should be the question. Did the person who wired the system use "F" type connectors or did he use RCA's on your wall? Since you are having confusion with the issue, I assume he used "F" type.

You can make an easy fix with this by making a cable with an "F" connection on one end and RCA on the other. F-Conn compression connectors are pretty simple and inexpensive when doing this.

The Cat5's you can use for IR or even for a network connection if the assumption that IP video will be the next big wave.

Thanks for the reply. How do you explain the 5 coax cables?

you can use different termination ends to add to the cable ... Bananna plugs, RCA etc. that will allow you to plug into your components
check with
Radio Shack
PartsExpress.com

Actually, you can send HD over coax.

I know you 'can' do 1080p over component but does the Bru-Ray spec (ICT Flag) not have the ability to not allow 1080p unless over HDMI......I know its not been done so far but its possible.


source (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060521-6880.html)
Image Constraint Token (ICT) is a security "feature" that allows studios to force-downgrade video quality on players that lack a special video output that was designed to thwart piracy. This "HDMI" connector standard is part of a "protected pathway" for video that was meant to combat piracy by making it impossible for pirates to tap into high-definition video output and press "Record," as it were.
...........there is reportedly a behind-the-scenes, unofficial agreement between Hollywood and some consumer electronics manufacturers, including Microsoft and Sony, not to use ICT until 2010, or possibly even 2012"

So to ensure that the OP can future proof himself (it thats ever really possible) HDMI is probably best whay to go.

I know you 'can' do 1080p over component but does the Bru-Ray spec (ICT Flag) not have the ability to not allow 1080p unless over HDMI......I know its not been done so far but its possible.

Yes, and this is an important part. I specifically asked for HDMI, hi def, 1080p, etc. Now, I'm not sure if I can tell the difference between 1080i or 1080p but that's not the point. The point is I wanted an essentially future proof system behind the wall built to accomodate 1080p and 1080p devices such as Blu Ray players.

He used cat 5e cables. I'm worried that I'm going to have to have him rip all the work he's done and get into a huge fight and end up in small claims court. Why he didnt just punch two holes in the wall and run HDMI cables I have no clue.

Grr... so stressed.

Do you have it in writing that you requested HDMI?

Did you see my edited post? Basically studios 'could' at any time implement ICT on the HDM disc's......whether they ever will who knows but if were me and I had it in writing that I requested HDMI I would insist they correct.

If you asked for HDMI, and he did not run HDMI, then obviously you did not get what you asked for. Do you have a written work order with the cabling specified? If not, then you might be in for a fight. You can run component video over coax, but that is not the point. Perhaps I am mistaken, but your initial cabling description sounds a little vague, that may have been part of the problem. Without specifying exactly what you want in writing, these kind of things can happen. All is not lost, you need to have a conversation with him, tell him you are not happy and see what happens. He might fix it. He might not. If he does not fix it, then you need to look at where to go from here. It sounds like the cabling runs are fairly short and a straight shot? It was put in after general construction was done and the walls closed up, correct? If so, then it should be fairly easy for him (or you) to correct. We can point you to the right places for cable. Good luck.

Do you have it in writing that you requested HDMI?

Did you see my edited post? Basically studios 'could' at any time implement ICT on the HDM disc's......whether they ever will who knows but if were me and I had it in writing that I requested HDMI I would insist they correct.

No... it's not in writing anywhere.

I told him HDMI over and over again, in the presence of many other individuals. He replied "yes, yes, it will be the standard package we do for plasmas." Again, I'm no expert but nowadays I would assume a standard package for LCDs/plasmas means HDMI/component... not 5 coax plugs. Wouldn't it have been far easier to just run two or three HDMI cables behind the wall???

Also, why go to the trouble of coax cables or cat 5e when they clearly required adapters of some sort to work?

We can point you to the right places for cable. Good luck.

If your in US try monoprice.com don't go wasting money on Monster brand cables.

Read through the posts and I just wanted to comment...just to answer your questions specifically...yes you can have HD via the 5 coax that the contractor ran but it will be only 720P/1080i....to my knowledge you cannot run 1080p over component....(please someone correct me if I am wrong)

I would say that you may be able to use the cat5e (just use baluns which can be pricey) to get your HD signal but from what I have been reading via other threads on this forum, you cannot get 1080p via cat5, cat5e, maybe not even cat6 due to bandwidth issues....I know they have recently come out with a cat6x? that allows for more bandwidth that would enable a user to broadcast 1080p. So if I am correct, the best you may be able to do is 720p/1080i...but you may want to research this further...just trying to point you in the right direction.

Again, please someone correct me if I am wrong...just an fyi, a good thread to research some of this info is a/v distribution thread.

I'm guessing no conduit was run for future wire upgrades. If the cat5 wire was run loose you might be able to that to pull new cat6 wire fairly easily and perhaps use the unit I referenced above for 1080P. It's possible though that it may have been secured in a few spots.

M1chael, as Mark said above you can do 1080P over component. It can handle the bandwidth, the problem is that the studios have the ability to turn on ICT which will down convert the signal. The balun I linked to above, it's at the bottom of that page says it can do 1080p up to 150' with cat6.
Pricey but not as bad as others I saw first.

No... it's not in writing anywhere.

I told him HDMI over and over again, in the presence of many other individuals. He replied "yes, yes, it will be the standard package we do for plasmas." Again, I'm no expert but nowadays I would assume a standard package for LCDs/plasmas means HDMI/component... not 5 coax plugs. Wouldn't it have been far easier to just run two or three HDMI cables behind the wall???

Also, why go to the trouble of coax cables or cat 5e when they clearly required adapters of some sort to work?

Most builders don't really understand this stuff.......if you have people that will back you up that you requested HDMI then you may have a chance but without it in writing you will probably not get any joy.

If its a fairly straight run thou it should not be too hard to get a cable thru (use one of the cat 5's for a pull wire)........just be carefull as HDMI's can damage easily

Good Luck

If you asked for HDMI, and he did not run HDMI, then obviously you did not get what you asked for. Do you have a written work order with the cabling specified? If not, then you might be in for a fight. You can run component video over coax, but that is not the point. Perhaps I am mistaken, but your initial cabling description sounds a little vague, that may have been part of the problem. Without specifying exactly what you want in writing, these kind of things can happen. All is not lost, you need to have a conversation with him, tell him you are not happy and see what happens. He might fix it. He might not. If he does not fix it, then you need to look at where to go from here. It sounds like the cabling runs are fairly short and a straight shot? It was put in after general construction was done and the walls closed up, correct? If so, then it should be fairly easy for him (or you) to correct. We can point you to the right places for cable. Good luck.

Yes, I ackowledge 100% that it's my fault for not specifying, in writing, exactly what wiring and set up I wanted. The guy says he's been doing this a long time, and I told him over and over again, that I wanted HDMI. I just assumed... and as they say assumptions can get you in a lot of trouble.

The cables were run BEFORE any drywall was put up. It's not exactly a straight shot. The wall box is where a typical TV would hang on the wall. The other end (where the hardware is going to go) is about 10 feet away but near the floor (that wasn't his choice - he had to work with that).

I told him HDMI over and over again, in the presence of many other individuals. He replied "yes, yes, it will be the standard package we do for plasmas." Again, I'm no expert but nowadays I would assume a standard package for LCDs/plasmas means HDMI/component... not 5 coax plugs. Wouldn't it have been far easier to just run two or three HDMI cables behind the wall???

Also, why go to the trouble of coax cables or cat 5e when they clearly required adapters of some sort to work?

coax and cat5 are cheap, HDMI is more expensive. Coax is a wire type. The connector type on the end of the wire for coax is typically: F (cable TV) or RCA or BNC. Coax terminated with RCA is what component video uses. monoprice.com is a good place to get cabling.

In hindsight I should of had everything written down. I'm just a young lad and this is my very first house. The project was delayed for 6 months and my wife and I have been living in my brother's basement. Everything kind of came to an end quickly and I had to make quick decisions with the lawyer, movers, etc.

Another issue (which I can foresee happening) is the definition of "high definition." I request a "hi def" setup. I'm going to go to him and say "hey, I asked specifically for HDMI, etc., and 'high definition' means 1080p." He's going to say "well, you asked for hi def and you got hi def - 720p/1080i." Obviously he's going to try to defend his job, which I can't blame him, and I do acknowledge that what he's given me (based on what I've read here) is capable of 720p/1080i. However, the point is it's not what I wanted or requested verbally.

Rogers cable (I live in Canada) is coming to install my cable and phone tomorrow. We'll see how that goes. Once they're gone the subcontractor is going to come back to finish the job. I'll keep everyone udated.

Thanks for all your help!

and I do acknowledge that what he's given me (based on what I've read here) is capable of 720p/1080i.

What he has given you 'is' capable of 1080p providing studios do not use the ICT flag on future Blu Ray discs.

The next thing to do is talk with the installer and see what he says, who know maybe you have conduit run to solve the problem.

What he has given you 'is' capable of 1080p providing studios do not use the ICT flag on future Blu Ray discs.

Ok, just to confirm (because I've read conflicting things). If I have a HD cable box, get component add ons for all the coax plugs on the wall, plug that into my 1080p capable tv, I will get 1080p TV?

And, also, if I get cat 6 instead of cat 5e, I can also get 1080p with the add on, right?

The cable co.'s are not transmitting 1080p (no one is)the most you could get from their equip. is 1080i.
Your TV should upconvert and display 1080p.
With PS3, Bluray, HD DVD you can get 1080p signal if they are 1080p(not referring to PS3 as a unit) units through component so long as it is not blocked in the future with ICT. Cat 6 with add on balun 1080p HDMI

As Oman321 says the cable box will out put either 720p/1080i and then depending on your TV it will either display 720p/1080i or upscale to 1080p.

If you have a device (PS3, Bluray, HD DVD) that outputs 1080p then providing the media does not use ICT (none have sor far - at least on purpose) it will still output 1080p.......its just 'if' movie studios implement ICT you will downscale.

I'm not familiar with 1080p over Cat5e but looks like its possible but I wouldn't bother for now......just get right connectors (RCA) to hook up to the component. Worry about 1080p later - if ever you need too......there are also some wireless HDMI option coming out so you may have more options later as well.

there are also some wireless HDMI option coming out so you may have more options later as well.

That's true best and wait unless you can potentially pull an HDMI wire somehow. Is this in a basement/cellar or 1st floor? Is lower level finished if on the 1st floor?

Ok, just to confirm (because I've read conflicting things). If I have a HD cable box, get component add ons for all the coax plugs on the wall, plug that into my 1080p capable tv, I will get 1080p TV?

Yes. HD cable boxes output 1080i60 over HDMI or component. Your display will convert it into 1080p.

And, also, if I get cat 6 instead of cat 5e, I can also get 1080p with the add on, right?

Yes, no, maybe. I do not recommend cat5/6 to HDMI converters unless they are used for very long distances. They tend to be expensive, and they are designed to solve a specific problem (long distance runs).

Don't get caught up on the difference between interlaced and progressive source signals. They carry exactly the same picture information and will look the same on modern displays that have working de-interlacers. For most practical purposes, there is no difference between them.

Sorry to hear your installer messed up...I've been on the receiving end of this as well, and it sucks. Most installers still don't "get" HDMI, as it's neigh impossible to custom cut onsite.

As some have noted, component cable is capable of 1080pXX transmission (e.g., 1080p24, 1080p60). I used QuadShield RG6 coax to pipe RGBHV 1080p72 to an old CRT projector in my first theater...about 30 feet of run. No issues...I could switch to component on the fly as well.

Here's the rub: AACS, used by HD DVD and Blu-ray, explicitly forbids 1080pXX analog output for any material...the best you get is 720p60 or 1080i60. Said another way, if you have a display that can accept 1080p24 and a Blu-ray player that can output 1080p24, you can't leverage that nirvana over component. It has nothing to do with ICT...it's just forbidden per AACS.

Thinking futureproof, I think the best course of action is to see about getting the installer to pull HDMI. I realize you have little leverage here, but you might be able to use one of the existing Cat5e runs as a guide. If you're lucky, the dude used something like smurf tube (flexible conduit, usually blue like a Smurf), and you'll be good to go. Unless your dude ran the smurf tube like my guy did, doing loop-de-loops and multiple hard 90 bends...if so, time to say goodbye to some drywall.

Hi guys,

Again, thanks for the suggestions. Rogers came to the house to hook up cable, telephone and internet. My subcontractor didn't get a chance finish off the cat 5 heads down in my garage so I don't have my home network up and running yet (I have a main station downstairs with cat 5 running up throughout the house to every room. The cable comes into the house, goes ot a modem, which is hooked up to a router and then feeds the room. Rogers doesn't do Cat 5 so I'll have to wait for my contractor to finish it).

He should be coming back tomorrow do complete the job so I'll provide and update for everyone at that time. I'll pass along his explanation for doing coax vs. a simple solution like HDMI. I have my new LCD hooked up (just with component hanging outside the wall right now) and it looks great so I'm happy with it. If he can't do the HDMI easily then I think I'll just leave the component there and worry about doing HDMI down the road when we decide to redecorate the room. The component will be hooked up to a A/V receiver with my devices feeding into the receiver. I don't think that will be a problem...

Thanks.

Hello,

I spoke to the contractor today. He apologized for the miscommunication. He said that his company only does telephone/cat5/cable (coax) wiring. I said I wanted HDMI and he understood that to be hi def/hi capacity coax for digital television. He's returning to the house today to put in a center speaker above the TV (all the speakers downstairs are flush in the wall) and he's going to see if he can fish an HDMI (which I purchased) through the center speaker hole, to the left speaker, and then down and left about 10' where all my hardware is located. He's going to try to avoid any holes in the drywall but he said he may have to punch one or two.

I'm at work and all I can do is cross my fingers. I hope when I return home I'm not going to see a huge mess :S

At least he is trying to work with you - hope he fishes it thru and he is careful not to tug on the ends or the HDMI plugs coud damage.

Glad to hear you have a plan...

This might sound like a big old dose of common sense, but make sure he protects (i.e, tapes the cap down if there's one, wraps in tape if there's no cap, etc.) the ends of the HDMI cable when fishing...it's amazing what kind of drywall residue can get in there and mess things up, and people who don't typically pull "finished" cable tend to forget these things!

It's very easy for him to fix any holes in the drywall. It will probably cost him $30 or less to have his drywall subcontractor fix any holes, or he'll do it himself in 20 minutes.

Don't sweat it.