Since those capacitors seem to be getting a lot of attention, I went ahead and added them to the schematic in my original post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17045830&postcount=235). The two capacitors on the board were identical, and in parallel with each other. They total about 0.1uF. A small ceramic disk capacitor will do nicely.

Later...

Hey NTSC, how old is your Pro from that teardown pic? I don't remember if we determined if the latest Pros have Sanyo tuners (LL, LS, who knows? LOL).
------------------
I received my LL the other day, so far so good, Mikey likes it. After initial setup in the house (attic antenna), I hooked it up in my van with a portable analog LCD via composite connections. What a rat's nest of cable! Cig lighter in the front and aux+antenna jack in the side didn't help either (watch your step!). Worked better than I expected, received almost as good as in the house.

Anyone know anything about those conversion van luggage rack antennas? VHF? UHF? both? Directivity? (which way do I point the van?) Omni-directional? How are they constructed? Maybe I should just put the van on a turntable to figure it out. :D

I DID NOT start the engine with the Artec to battery (I did try one of those DC-AC inverters just for the heck of it, worked fine, no noise). Looking back at the #184 LL pic, near the DC connector, it looks like there could be two switching regulators. Look at the two sets of a shielded toroid (220), 8 pin IC, and I believe a diode and low ESR tantalum cap - common elements for these small switcher circuits. All surrounded by big caps to clean up the ripple, among other things. I suspect they go down to an intermediate voltage (parallel) or two as I see what I believe are linear regulators scattered throughout the board (the 4 pin dudes with one big thermal lead, could be power transistors/switches though). Anyhow, if someone can read the print off of one of those 8 pin ICs I might be able to determine the input voltage rating for the regulator(s). It might even run at a lower voltage, the one I helped design ran from 5 to 16 V (5 V out).

Those 8 legged chips are marked MP9141ES-77840419.

Hey NTSC, how old is your Pro from that teardown pic? I don't remember if we determined if the latest Pros have Sanyo tuners (LL, LS, who knows? LOL).


I doubt mine is one of the newer ones. The newest date code I found on the chips in my Pro was from right around Oct. 08. There's a small pict of it open in post 213 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17035630&postcount=213). Has the Sanyo tuner and the empty pads for the missing smart antenna connector. It also has the empty pads for that odd reset switch others have mentioned (next to the IR receiver module.) Shorting them just does a soft re-boot, like turning the box off, then immediately right back on again.

The two 8-Pin surface mount IC's you speak of are
Motorola MP9141ES in standard SOIC-8 casings.

I've only a sec right now, but here is some info.

They are simple "Buck" style PWM voltage reducers IC's
The equivelant numbers I found were TD1410 and KT6141.

HERE (http://www.newcathaytech.com/downloads/usbhub/TD1410.pdf) is a similar cross equivelent TD1410 PDF datasheet.

That should get you up to speed on how they are metering
the Wall-Wart down to 3.3 and 5 volts.

You can see the two inductors they use next to each IC in pics from this thread.

They are 3.6 To 18 Volt in typically.
They "Buck" at a fair 380KHz,
and can supply about 2-Amp

Remember, these may handle up to 18-Volts in,
But other circuitry also present like on/off circuits may not!


I failed to find an exact Motorola PDF datasheet link,
just dozens of online whores that said they did (As usual...).
Happy hunting.

I will try to make time to trace out the initial power path in these LL's when gravity makes my chair the only fair option some late night soon.

I doubt mine is one of the newer ones. The newest date code I found on the chips in my Pro was from right around Oct. 08. There's a small pict of it open in post 213 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17035630&postcount=213). Has the Sanyo tuner and the empty pads for the missing smart antenna connector. It also has the empty pads for that odd reset switch others have mentioned (next to the IR receiver module.) Shorting them just does a soft re-boot, like turning the box off, then immediately right back on again.

Thanks. Aw shucks, well maybe someone that bought a Pro of late can check. Somehow I suspect they're still the same since no one advertises them as LL. Funny all this tuner change business; same thing with Zinwell. I didn't notice much difference for the Zinwells between Microtune and Sanyo tuners BUT one of my Sanyo versions has an RF input impedance>synthesizer losing lock problem (pic depixellates until retuned, really sucks when it does it during a recording); I'll probably try some resoldering when I get a chance (warranty? LOL).

That could be a factory reset switch, maybe they get locked up during tune (?) & test and the comm link is frozen. Throw money at the problem. :rolleyes:

The two 8-Pin surface mount IC's you speak of are Motorola MP9141ES in standard SOIC-8 casings.

That's funny, Motorola has been out of the IC biz for yrs now. Sold off the smaller stuff to ON Semi and spun off the rest via Freescale Semi. Definitely a Mot # though, probably some Taiwanese firm bought the line.

Assuming the specs are identical, I think I see the problem. VEN is only rated to 12V which I suspect is tied directly to the supply line. The vicious circle of trying to enable a voltage regulator by a logic circuit whose power is supplied by the regulator. Can be fixed with a resistive voltage divider if it doesn't already have one (i.e. maybe they just didn't want to spend the time&money certifying it for auto use). But like you said, there could be other circuits on the input supply line to contend with, but I don't see why if this regulator is enabled by the supply line. Stranger things have happened though.

Just for grins I plugged my Zinwell 5V wall-wart into my LL, worked no problem. They should market this versatility (time&money cert again?) for use with other supplies, battery packs, etc. There's a transformer relationship though such that proportionally more input current will be required as the input voltage goes down.

Now thermal is another issue (auto) but they use two of these things for only 4.5W max, and I would think somewhat evenly distributed.

That's funny, Motorola has been out of the IC biz for yrs now. Sold off the smaller stuff to ON Semi and spun off the rest via Freescale Semi. Definitely a Mot # though, probably some Taiwanese firm bought the line.


If only the government had a project that could be used to clear out old stock in cheap (+Inexpensive...) consumer electronics of some kind.

Oh wait, NTIA spec'd boxes fit the just bill fine. :)

Anyway, the LL will take ~15.14-VDC for a full hour without excessive heat to any components (Out of case).
That is just what a laptop brick happened to put out that also had the correct plug on it. It varied a little under 1/10 of a volt which is fair for the really light load the LL is.

I will still trace out the power circuit later, but that is the answer people need now concerning camping & power outage Marine/Auto/RV/Etc. use.

Anyway, the LL will take ~15.14-VDC for a full hour without excessive heat to any components (Out of case).

If most everything is supplied by those switching regulators then I wouldn't expect anything to get hotter; in fact the regulator IC itself appears to get slightly more efficient with higher input voltage. My concern is the breakdown voltage of the enable circuit (excluding anything else tied directly to the input supply line) but that's good that it took the 15V; may degrade reliability though.

I see the TD1410 datasheet shows a built in thermal shutdown function. That's good if the rest of the Artec can handle higher ambient temperature before the regulator shuts everything down (if it ever does - low load current). It is a pretty low power usage CECB. I find it odd that they used two switching regulators when each one can supply 2A (cost/components/space). :confused:

The vicious circle of trying to enable a voltage regulator by a logic circuit whose power is supplied by the regulator.

If you appreciate that irony,
then you'd like one of the cartoons I remember.

Simple one screen cartoon.

A man using an old fashioned trigger operated soldering gun,
soldering a new 120-VAC wall plug on a device,
the soldering gun itself...

In a 12v cig lighter plug for the Artec Pro and LL what amp fuse should I use?

In a 12v cig lighter plug for the Artec Pro and LL what amp fuse should I use?

Refering to my T3AP-LL teardown (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17032402#post17032402)you'll see it consumes a little under a quarter of an amp at 12-V.
But the capacitors that must charge upon connection would probably blow a fuse that small.

Go with a one ampere fuse.
Anything catastrophic in nature would surely pop that.

You can try 250-Milliamp (1/4-Amp),
and 500-Milliamp (1/2-Amp) fuses
nd let us know (if you have a full draw of them to waste).

If you appreciate that irony,
then you'd like one of the cartoons I remember.

Simple one screen cartoon.

A man using an old fashioned trigger operated soldering gun,
soldering a new 120-VAC wall plug on a device,
the soldering gun itself...

Ouch! Dog chasing its tail and got a bite. :D

FWIW - I just got a pair of Artec T3AP-LL's at Meritline for a total of $2.99 after rebates.

Link:

http://www.meritline.com/artec-full-digital-conventer-box-t3ap-pro-digital-to-analog-converter-box---p-29296.aspx

FWIW - I just got a pair of Artec T3AP-LL's at Meritline for a total of $2.99 after rebates.

Link:

http://www.meritline.com/artec-full-digital-conventer-box-t3ap-pro-digital-to-analog-converter-box---p-29296.aspx

Sorry to hear you lost $2.99, I just clinked on that link and it showed to be $0 after rebates. :D

OK, so there's a TV Guide (TVGOS?) version of this box; would this provide an exceptional EPG if one has the required "TV Guide on screen/Guide plus+ Product"?

Also, I have a VCR Plus+ VCR; is this the required product?

Thanks in advance!

Other: My van>luggage rack antenna-connected LL received pretty good over the holiday weekend in a valley in the hill country ~25 miles north of Austin, TX; the only catch is the transmitter is only about 10 miles away, being they like to place those out in the sticks around these parts. My biggest problem was I had to keep adjusting the brightness on the portable LCD TV due to self-heating in an already warm environment.

The LL would glitch when tapped or moved around bumpily (hard to avoid in the van with that rat's nest of wires). I suspect due to a mechanical/piezo effect on the VCO's crystal oscillator, a common problem with consumer receivers not designed to be moved around.

OK, so there's a TV Guide (TVGOS?) version of this box; would this provide an exceptional EPG if one has the required "TV Guide on screen/Guide plus+ Product"?

Also, I have a VCR Plus+ VCR; is this the required product?


No, the VCR Plus+ VCR is not the required product. That's when you only have to enter a code to setup the VCR to record, correct? If you have a TV or other device that used to receive TV Guide OTA then the TVGOS version of the converter box would allow you to receive it.

Understanding TV Guide On Screen
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-7eAuKh7LY9A/learn/learningcenter/home/dvrs_tvgos2.html

http://www.artectv.com/ehtm/products/t3aprt.htm "Works with TV Guide on screen/Guide plus+ Product"

Owner reviews: http://www.meritline.com/artec-t3apr-t-tvr-dtv-converter-box-with-tv-guide---p-34159.aspx

It comes down to that if you didn't used to receive TV Guide OTA then you won't receive it even if you bought the special Artec converter box.

No, the VCR Plus+ VCR is not the required product. That's when you only have to enter a code to setup the VCR to record, correct? If you have a TV or other device that used to receive TV Guide OTA then the TVGOS version of the converter box would allow you to receive it.

I'm not that familiar with this VCR as my neighbor gave it to me, but it doesn't work well so I set it aside. But after reviewing your info I see what you mean. The "Plus+" threw me off as Artec puts that in their TVG info (I noticed it's not described the same way in the Crutchfield article, which also has a "VCR Plus+" hyperlink at the end). I now suspect a product should have the TV Guide/On Screen logo on it.

Thanks again and you saved me bothering with it. Although it might be worth picking one up if I could get it cheaper in the event I stumbled across a TVGOS recorder. The Crutchfield article claims 8 days of data (assuming the broadcasters and/or CECB supply it all).

A quick review of my initial look at the ArtecT3AP-LL which I received today from freetvsignal, apparently at the end of their "free" offer for this model.

As I posted, I waited until last minute to use my last coupon not realizing that I could not find anything but two products at stores and that most online sites were out of boxes.

My quick read of this product led me to believe that it included features I was looking for most - an extended EPG and a decent tuner.

When I looked at the exterior of the box, I was surprised that there was only a power on/off button. I had thought by looking at a picture of the box from the ftvsig site that a channel selector button(s) surrounded the inner power button. Oh well.

My first reaction to the box itself is that it was a nice small size (no way to miss that large power button in the dark!!) and that the remote buttons were tiny like the size of those on my Zinwell remote.

But what surprised me and pleased me were the number of "dedicated" buttons on the remote to frequently used functions like accessing the EPG and sleep operations. There is also a "freeze" button which looks interesting.

The manual looks to present information fairly straight forwardly.

I was concerned at first when I saw a picture of the display of the "now and next" content for the EPG and was relieved to learn that by pressing the up and down arrows, that an extended listing of programs can be accessed.

It may have been Floydage or another poster who mentioned that this box offers some features that other boxes don't have. I wonder what features Artec users find most useful and/or interesting.

I like what I see so far. When I first wrote down a list of CECBs to consider at the beginning of the digital transition last year, this was one box I had considered and then dismissed due to the appearance of the big power button on the top of the box (and no inclusion of a channel selector) and found myself pursuing the Insignia, Zinwell, and Pal Plus. And prior to the increased signal of stations, I picked up a Channel Master upon being reminded repeatedly that for strength of reception, this box was among the best.

Looks like the Artec will be a welcome addition to my collection.

Every box has some negatives. Anything to be forewarned about? (I have found only one with the Insignia, not including the one box I returned due to a faulty antenna jack)

Mr100watt can you please give a full picture quality comparison between all of your CECB’s?

I have Zenith DTT901, Artec T3AP-LL, Artec T3AP-LS, Apex DT502, Inet SSR1921 and rate them in that order.

Zenith DTT901 has a slightly softer picture than the Artec but causes less eyestrain than the other boxes. The Zenith has slightly more sensitive tuning than the Artec T3AP-LL.

Artec T3AP-LL picture appears to be slightly brighter and more vivid than the Zenith but slightly grainer.

Artec T3AP-LS the RF output picture has diagonal background pattern on some stations but AV output is the same as the T3AP-LL box.

Apex DT502 picture is grainy and darker than the Zenith and Artec boxes using RF and AV cables and I do not have an S-video TV to test that output. Tuning only picks up half as many stations as the Zenith DTT901 box.

Inet SSR1921 picture is worse than the Apex but the tuning is more sensitive than the Apex.
The worst thing about the Inet SSR1921 is when you change the aspect ratio to fill the screen the picture becomes even grainer and completely not watch able. When the aspect ratio is changed on the Zenith and Artec boxes I can see no difference in picture quality.

Artec T3AP-LS the RF output picture has diagonal background pattern on some stations but AV output is the same as the T3AP-LL box.

Noise or a displayed graphic? I get a diagonal noise pattern with CECBs hooked to an old knob TV (VHF screws using transformer to the RF output). I cleaned it up somewhat by placing aluminum foil under the CECB and grounded to the CECB's RF connector; the CECB sits on top of the TV.

The Artecs have a menu to adjust some picture features. Try them out as I've heard some are off (plus fine tune per each TV). Has a 'return to factory default' button too if you mess up. Mine was OK but the Hue DAC has a weird discontinuity in it (not centered and makes an abrupt red-green jump at an odd position) but still provides a full tuning range.

Notes:

Zeniths/Insignias and Artecs have the same decoder/tuner chip-sets, even the same LS/LL variety nonsense.

The Apex may have the same chip-set as the iNET and Tivax per Wiki (I've heard the iNET is a Tivax clone).

I mention this because of the differences reported by you and others. And ConsumerReports has the Tivax a step above your others for PQ. Maybe there's more to it than those chips, for example CECB designer application settings for the chips (does the Zenith have PQ adjustments in its menu?).

It may have been Floydage or another poster who mentioned that this box offers some features that other boxes don't have. I wonder what features Artec users find most useful and/or interesting.

For me it was the 12V application, good timing for Labor Day weekend camping. Also helps that it's small and light. CH/VOL button version would have been nice vs fumbling around in the dark for the remote. :D It can run off of a variety of battery voltages too, I tested it at 5V and it may go a volt+ (I'm guessing 3.3V to 3.6V logic inside). I did not and will not plug it in with the engine running as I can't verify greater than 12V operation is safe.

Yes the T3AP-LS box has background herring bone noise like it has a bad F-connector ground. The strange thing is that it changes with what they are showing. I was watching an old black and white Peter Gun episode that had a great picture with no interference. I could change the channel to a prime time show and it would have the interference looking background?

My next step will be to put the circuit board in a metal box and ground the tuner like you suggest.

Yes the T3AP-LS box has background herring bone noise like it has a bad F-connector ground. The strange thing is that it changes with what they are showing. I was watching an old black and white Peter Gun episode that had a great picture with no interference. I could change the channel to a prime time show and it would have the interference looking background?

My next step will be to put the circuit board in a metal box and ground the tuner like you suggest.

Hmmm, my noise problem is on all channels. Now a B&W show may not be noticeable if it's 'color' noise (quite possible) but it sounds like you're seeing more than that scenario. The problem I'm referring to is a radiated issue - I suspect the digital noise of a CECB radiates into the old TV's knob tuner that wasn't designed for this era (shielding and/or filtering).

Try moving the LS far away from the TV with a long RF cable. Also try the same thing with the antenna if the antenna is close and possible to move (vs LS and then vs TV). I'm trying to figure out if the problem is radiated or conducted (through the RF cable). If it's conducted then it's as you feared, something wrong with the box (does another TV do it too?); in this case you could try resoldering the tuner components and surrounding components. Yeah a flaky RF connector can cause impedance problems that change with frequency. My 27" had the connector jerked and the tuner flaked out, I resoldered everything and got the tuner back up but it receives better at low freqs than high freqs although Ch3/4 isn't 100% anymore (thank goodness for the A/V and S-video inputs!).

Now you got me wanting to find a B&W show to try on that old TV.

This T3AP-LS box is the only CECB I have tested with the herringbone background problem.
On the station that runs the old black and white shows one show will be clear and the next may have the herringbone. The same thing may happen with prime time show one perfect and the next bad. Last night the Carson Daly show had a great picture but one of the commercials had herringbone?

It is like the Sanyo tuner in this -LS only likes a cretin broadcast signal or something. Who knows it might be something as simple as a tuner coil being gapped wrong or a cold solder joint.
I have tried changing just about every thing including different power supplies with no improvement.

That IS weird and reeks of being a conducted problem. Sounds like something in the content (input format, graphic images/text, CC, etc.) is triggering it. Something like that might also be the demodulator or decoder. You might play around with it while it's active - something insulated to poke around with (and ground yourself), freeze spray, heat (conservatively with a blow dryer), etc. Tap the tuner lid (vibration should make it lose lock for a second though). Wiggle the RF connectors (hopefully they don't actually wiggle! :D).

You said before composite video is clean. Makes me think the demodulator although I don't know if there are any significant circuits post-demodulator; amplifiers, mixers, filters, etc.

You can run it off of a battery, 5V to 12V for sure. Maybe even less than 5V like 4V but my lowest supply was 5V. Eliminates AC connection to the CECB other than ground feeds. I had two TVs sharing an antenna, one of which went whacko when the other was on. It quit doing it not too long ago, my best guess was a noisy ground from an unused cable TV connection going to my breaker box (since removed, I don't need to ground the cable company anymore! :p).

Has anyone out there run this on 12V with engine/alternator running??

Has anyone out there run this on 12V with engine/alternator running??

Not that I've read on these threads. WeThePeople ran it for an hour at 15V though and it didn't fry. The 'potential' problem is a pin on the regulator IC is only rated to 12V; this pin has to be activated by the input power line for the IC to turn on. There could be a circuit to protect this pin above 12V but we don't know; if not, it is unknown how long the part will IC above 12V. I'm also assuming nothing else in the box is running directly off the input power line (i.e. everything else runs off of the regulator IC).

Measure the voltage across your battery with your engine running, should be closer to 14V due to the charging by the alternator. Engine off should be closer to 12V.

Has anyone out there run this on 12V with engine/alternator running??

mntmst has run his with the car running. He uses diodes in series to drop the voltage down to 12V. There is still the possibility of transients zapping the box but they can be filtered out (there might even be a filter for voltage transients in the box since the mfg says it's suitable for RVs):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15924503&postcount=120

The discussion continues on the page of the thread that follows thru post 123:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1013420&page=5

(...since the mfg says it's suitable for RVs)

I haven't seen anything from the manufacturer on this, just marketing references from resellers ("may be suitable for automotive use").

For the battery folks, these Artecs can run off of lower voltages. Just requires proportionally more current from the battery (i.e. same total power). I ran my LL off of my Zinwell 5V wall-wart but I need to test more thoroughly for picture freeze as was noted in one of the links you supplied (may have been due to insufficient battery current). I'll post back after I get around to it.

Thanks for the links, very interesting!

Thanks for the links, very interesting!
You are welcome. Yes they are, because I want to be able to receive the latest TV news during a power failure or weather emergency.

I haven't seen anything from the manufacturer on this, just marketing references from resellers ("may be suitable for automotive use").
Does this help?:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13885266&postcount=80
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16318736&postcount=144
http://www.artectv.com/Service_e/nl/home/faq.asp.htm
http://www.artectv.com/Service_e/nl/home/digital%20tv/FAQ_for_ATSC_STB.htm
http://www.artectv.com/Service_e/nl/home/digital%20tv/FAQ_for_ATSC_STB.htm#ATSC_STB_17 answer to RV question here

For powering the Artec in a vehicle what about using a Low Dropout Regulator like the LM2940CT-12?

http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM2940.pdf

Has anyone out there run this on 12V with engine/alternator running??


TC,
I have run this at 15.1 and then some without failure for over an hour with the board out of the box.

The two voltage regulator IC's and all others were just fine with that.

I dare say that if your to much over 15.1 on an automotive/rv battery
you must be adding water every third day or less.

The idea of introducing a few diodes in series
with a little over a half volt loss each is still a good idea.

This box has been run by another on 5-V as reference,
so four diodes would keep you completely safe.

Here is what I could contribute to THE CAUSE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17032402#post17032402).

mntmst has run his with the car running. He uses diodes in series to drop the voltage down to 12V. There is still the possibility of transients zapping the box but they can be filtered out (there might even be a filter for voltage transients in the box since the mfg says it's suitable for RVs):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15924503&postcount=120

The discussion continues on the page of the thread that follows thru post 123:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1013420&page=5

I still have mine in the car. Still working fine but the switch to VHF high has made it harder to use a small antenna.

Kenwood DDX-812
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3446/3925959177_dae3c1be13.jpg
$1.50 bowtie antenna and rear-view camera on GPS suction mount attached to rear window.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2652/3925958671_ddf113142f.jpg

For powering the Artec in a vehicle what about using a Low Dropout Regulator like the LM2940CT-12?

http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM2940.pdf

Yes.

Also a zener diode circuit if the zener can handle the power when the box is off (very important!):

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/zenereg.html

Because of the power problem when off I'd prefer the other solutions.

A resistive voltage divider on the enable pins of the switching regulator ICs is the proper design solution, assuming that the switching regulators are the only devices 'seeing' the input supply line. It would lower the threshold voltage that the regulators would turn on but there should be plenty of range for this.

http://www.artectv.com/Service_e/nl/home/digital%20tv/FAQ_for_ATSC_STB.htm#ATSC_STB_17 answer to RV question here

Interesting, somewhat vague, but interesting. It WAS Artec (I hope the Q&A guy conferred with Marketing and Engineering). :D
I wish the person asking would have asked if he could start his engine. :confused:

Speaking of which, do newer model cars have regulated auxilliary supplies? RVs? Anything ~5V? (for portable devices, maybe picked off the regulator for an auto's computer). I still drive an '89 so don't have a clue. :o

KISS principle applied:

$1.59 = 5-Volt Fixed-Voltage Regulator (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062599) from Radio-Shaft.
(Many cigarette lighter plug adapters have these in them)

Add heatsink, case, and a reasonable electrolytic capacitor.
Voila, cheap and easy solution.


Or look for the LM7809 9-Volt one if your concerned about current @5V...

KISS principle applied:

$1.59 = 5-Volt Fixed-Voltage Regulator (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062599) from Radio-Shaft.
(Many cigarette lighter plug adapters have these in them)

Add heatsink, case, and a reasonable electrolytic capacitor.
Voila, cheap and easy solution.


Or look for the LM7809 9-Volt one if your concerned about current @5V...

Nice find! I see they also have a 12V and an adjustable ($2.29 and add a few resistors): http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032279

The closer to 12V the better for efficiency. The 12V part would dissipate a little less than a watt with the engine running so that honkin' TO-220 wouldn't need a heatsink. With the engine off the output voltage would drop some (not operating in dropout) but it doesn't matter to the Artec. With the engine on it would regulate & filter better (note dropout is less at lower current as well as higher temp). If noise is a problem then a lower voltage regulator will provide better filtering.

Ref: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM340.pdf#page=1

Yeah I wondered about those cigarette lighter plug adapters, something simple like your proposal might fit in the plug and get a little extra heatsink from the ground connection. I did a quick search and found this universal one, I suspect it has a switching regulator if they mean it can supply 500mA at any of those voltages:

http://www.tootoo.com/d-rp1908322-Universal_DC_Adapter/

I ran my LL again at 5V but more throughly checked it out. Didn't observe any operational problems, including no pic freeze (someone said they had a pic freeze problem at 7.5V...?).

It did pick up a low-level low-frequency audio hum, sort of sounds like a motor; changes with what appears to be the brightness/contrast (load change I suspect). The hum stays even when I mute the Artec audio and of course it's more discernible. I think it's because of the Zinwell 5V switching adapter that I'm using, need a cleaner supply to confirm.

"Radio-Shaft" LOL. Radio-Sheist? Convenient but pricey, I've got one I can walk to whereas Best Buy or somesuch are miles away. Reminds me of Ace Hardware vs the big boys. R-S should do like Ace and put on good sales to stay alive.

Using this CECB as a 'jump start' for the problematic TVGOS, I was sucessfull in re-establishing TVGOS listings after a 'crash' of my analog TVGOS device without any of additional the steps posted elsewhere.
Note, the box is only inserted for less than 24 hours, then removed to get the TVGOS grid which apparently has been the issue for owners of V8 TVGOS devices (TV's, DVR's and DVD recorders).

Great thread guys,

Have a couple of questions as I have (2) coupons expiring soon....

What is the difference between the LL and LS versions?
(Artec T3AP-LS is in stock, LL is out of Stock)

Guide- How far does GUIDE go out?
(I read on the newer versions of the Sunkey 801 that Sunkey crippled their guide that went out to 7-days? due to licensing issues.. No Guide= Sunkey doesn't have to pay Royalty fees)

How would you Artec owners rate:

Picture / Sound Quality...

Build Quality

(I see WeThePeople does NOT like the Craig/ Sunkey units but says he likes the Artec units.... I'm assuming this means the Sunkey/Craigs are cheaply built, and the Artec's are more substantial ?)

I'm looking for something that will "last"...


(Currently have)

DTVPal Plus
Zenith DT901
Zinwell 970A, 950
APEX DT502


Another way to phrase the above...

What would you purchase at this point in time?

Only low / no cost units I see on the market are:

APEX DT250A
Sunkey 801
Craig CVD-508 (AKA Sunkey 801)
Airlink 101

.

If you go back to post #145 and read forward all of your questions will be answered.

If you like the Zenith DTT901 you will like the Artec T3AP-LL box.

If you go back to post #145 and read forward all of your questions will be answered.

If you like the Zenith DTT901 you will like the Artec T3AP-LL box.


Read thru posts from 123+/- forward...

From what I read the LL=LG tuner, LS-Sanyo... the LG performing better...
Artec has a guide that shows 5-6 hours into the future. No timers, external 12vdc power brick.

So...

Who is currently selling the Artec T3AP-LL's?




.

These two places were selling the T3AP-LL for a coupon with free shipping but they ran out last week.

https://secure.freetvsignal.com/viewAll.php

http://www.meritline.com/newsearch.aspx?SearchTerm=artec+t3ap
http://www.meritline.com/searchnew.a...erm=artec+t3ap

Looks like Meritline still has some T3AP-LS and T3AP Pro boxes but not free. Both of these boxes use the Sanyo tuner which is OK but not as sensitive as the LG tuner.

Great thread guys, Have a couple of questions as I have (2) coupons expiring soon....What is the difference between the LL and LS versions? (Artec T3AP-LS is in stock, LL is out of Stock) Guide- How far does GUIDE go out? .......How would you Artec owners rate: Picture / Sound Quality... Build Quality
..............
Another way to phrase the above... What would you purchase at this point in time? Only low / no cost units I see on the market are:
APEX DT250A
Sunkey 801
Craig CVD-508 (AKA Sunkey 801)
Airlink 101 .
i have DN TR40's and the ARTEC Artec T3AP (dont know if its LL or LS, i suspect LS because the LL's are marked LL on the product box....or maybe its the other way around, not sure....mine just says 'Artec T3AP' )

i dont think there is much difference between the ARTEC LL and LS....maybe some slightly better/different tuner performance? the tuner in my Artec T3AP is very good....so either way u should be ok...

the guide in my Artec T3AP is NOW/NEXT with a very slow/awkward way to see ahead a few hours but with no program descriptions....program titles only....but it does give program descriptions for the current and next program....pic and audio quality is very good on both the rf and a/v outputs....and build quality is good....but the remote control has a very narrow angle of acceptance ....its range (distance to unit) is ok but u have to be pointed right at the box to work....

the TR40 aka DTVPal has by FAR the best epg of any cecb dtv boxes i have used or read about....its well worth a $20 cost after coupon if u can find one somewhere....it also has record timers, a very rare feature....thats what i would get at this point....

i think the SUNKEY does not have a CHANNEL RECALL function....thats essential to have, im my opinion...but i think the CRAIG version does have it....

i also have the ZINWELL 970A...overall, it works well....no major complaints/problems...worst thing about it is no epg program descriptions...its NOW/NEXT program title only....

as for the AIRLINK, DO NOT buy one of those ....i had one and it had very poor video quality....and some other minor problems...and their tech support is worthless....i did a review of it here on AVS in the AIRLINK thread....

I have an artec T3AP-LL digital converter box with system version 2.1.1B,
which I got from freetvsignal in march 2009.

This box detects 5.1 but not 5.2 from WPTZ in Vermont. I tried several
manual and automatic rescans, and tried resetting the artec to factory
defaults. 5.2 does not appear in the channel list, cannot be changed to
manually, and cannot be added manually. I have tested 4 of these artecs, and
all have this bug. I also have a sansonic FT-300A and a sunkey SK-801ATSC,
both of which detect 5.2.

Maybe this bug is caused by errors in the PSIP data. Maybe the
broadcasters will eventually stop sending incorrect PSIP data, and then a
firmware update will not be needed.

I posted a message about this on the local forum and received these
responsfoxfan said:
WPTZ 5-2 also doesn't come in on my old Samsung SIR-T151 tuner I use on a
second TV. Some PSIP incompatibility.

RonXYZ said:
Not sure if it is related but looking at TsReader report on http colon slash
slash www dot rabbitears dot info slash screencaps slash vt-brl slash
57476-0_0.htm you can see that the "Carrier Frequency" field is not set at
'0' as recommended by FCC and the "Source ID" field for both channels are
set to '1' I think they should be different.

I looked at the tsreader report about WPTZ, and compared it to the tsreader
reports for WCAX, WETK and WFFF. The artec receives WCAX, WETK and WFFF
correctly. I looked for anything that is different for WPTZ. As noted by
RonXYZ, WPTZ has "Carrier Frequency: 473", while the other channels have
"Carrier Frequency: 0"; and WPTZ has "Source ID: 1" for both subchannels,
while the other channels have a different Source ID for each subchannel.

I also noticed something else. tsreader says the first WPTZ virtual channel
is "Program Number: 3", and the second WPTZ virtual channel is "Program
Number: 7". With most broadcasters, the first virtual channel is 3 and the
second virtual channel is 4, so WPTZ is different than other broadcasters.
This might be the difference which triggers the firmware bug in the artec.
WCAX has program 1 and program 2 instead of program 3 and program 4, and the
artec does not have a problem with that, so the problem is numbers which are
not consecutive, not that the wrong numbers are used. Maybe the artec sees
that there is no program 4, and therefore assumes that 3 is the last
program, and thus thinks that program 7 does not exist.

more about tsreader: http colon slash slash www dot tsreader dot com

tsreader reports for WCAX, WETK, WFFF:
http colon slash slash www dot rabbitears dot info slash screencaps slash vt-brl slash 46728-0_0.htm
http colon slash slash www dot rabbitears dot info slash screencaps slash vt-brl slash 69944-0_0.htm
http colon slash slash www dot rabbitears dot info slash screencaps slash vt-brl slash 10132-0_0.htm

So my theory is that the artec is confused by nonconsecutive program
numbers. Can anyone verify or disprove this? Are there any other channels
where these artecs fail to find some of the subchannels, and do these
channels have nonconsecutive program numbers? Are there any channels with
nonconsecutive program numbers where the artecs find all subchannels?

rabbitears.info has tsreader reports for many channels. Go to
rabbitears.info, listings, city, station, technical information,
tsreader report.

I know of one other station with nonconsecutive program numbers: WXXA in
Albany, NY; virtual channels 23.1 and 23.2; real channel 7; program numbers
3 and 8; tsreader report http colon slash slash www dot rabbitears dot info
slash screencaps slash ny-alb slash 11970-0_0.htm. If any of you with artecs
in your cars ever drives through Albany, see if you get both 23.1 and 23.2.
es:

Artec T3AP-LL=LG tuner
Artec T3AP-LS=Sanyo tuner

These two places were selling the T3AP-LL for a coupon with free shipping but they ran out last week.

https://secure.freetvsignal.com/viewAll.php

http://www.meritline.com/newsearch.aspx?SearchTerm=artec+t3ap
http://www.meritline.com/searchnew.a...erm=artec+t3ap

Looks like Meritline still has some T3AP-LS and T3AP Pro boxes but not free. Both of these boxes use the Sanyo tuner which is OK but not as sensitive as the LG tuner.

Ended up ordering some T3AP-LS's thru Meritline..:eek:

FYI:

1: When asked if Meritline were getting anymore T3AP-LL's... They said they are trying to get in contact with the mfg regarding getting more T3AP-LL's.... But the mfg had not gotten back with them.

2: Meritline said they had 100 T3AP-LS's in-stock
2a: Meritline does NOT have a 1-800... After a wait of 10-15 mins on hold each time I called (I called on "my dime" (3) times getting disconnected each time.) upon finally getting someone on the phone . when I did get someone on the phone they acted "short" with me, like I was "bothering" them.. (Yes I know they are a web-based operation, and they prefer ZERO contact with customers...)

I had (2) very short questions:
A: If they had any LL's on order / Expected ETA of LL's.
B: To verify stock of the LS's.

3: This is on the product page if you read the WHOLE page:

Be aware when ordering if using a converter box coupon.... When you place a order you have to enter the converter box coupon #'s, the expiry date and CCV2# in the "Order Notes section" MANUALLY...
(I placed one order expecting to be rolled over to a page in which you (the customer) enters the info, then are rolled over to a page that asks you to verify all order info before the order is "submitted". None of that at Meritline, nor a way I saw to add the asked for info so I created another order adding the info manually...);)

I for sure wasn't to call them again... on my dime...


For anyone else in the "market" here is another place selling the T3AP's.

Satellite Radio Superstore
An IBSM Inc. Company
7213 Sandscove Court Suite 10
Winter Park, FL 32792

Phone: 1.800.513.8554
Fax: 407.657.8177
Email: contactus@satelliteradiosuperstore.com

http://www.digital-tv-converter.net/

Note for the record that they are responsive to e-mail inquiries. I e-mailed them last night regarding the Artec T3AP wanting to know if the units were LL, or LS's and by 9:46am I had a response in my in-box.


Dear Mr. xxxxx,


Thank you for your inquiry. Please be advised that the last shipment of ARTEC T3AP units are coded : LS.


If http://www.digital-tv-converter.net/would have had "free" shipping I would preferred going thru them instead of Meritline.
(Reasons 1-800, Lists a physical address, responds to sales inquiries in a timely manner)





i dont think there is much difference between the ARTEC LL and LS....maybe some slightly better/different tuner performance? the tuner in my Artec T3AP is very good....so either way u should be ok...

the guide in my Artec T3AP is NOW/NEXT with a very slow/awkward way to see ahead a few hours but with no program descriptions....program titles only....but it does give program descriptions for the current and next program....pic and audio quality is very good on both the rf and a/v outputs....and build quality is good....but the remote control has a very narrow angle of acceptance ....its range (distance to unit) is ok but u have to be pointed right at the box to work....

the TR40 aka DTVPal has by FAR the best epg of any cecb dtv boxes i have used or read about....its well worth a $20 cost after coupon if u can find one somewhere....it also has record timers, a very rare feature....thats what i would get at this point....


i also have the ZINWELL 970A...overall, it works well....no major complaints/problems...worst thing about it is no epg program descriptions...its NOW/NEXT program title only....

as for the AIRLINK, DO NOT buy one of those ....i had one and it had very poor video quality....and some other minor problems...and their tech support is worthless....i did a review of it here on AVS in the AIRLINK thread....


Thanks for your thoughts... I had considered the AIRLINK unit but decided against it after reading your review. I like you agree that the EPG on the DishNetwork TR-40 /AKA DTVPal, and the DTVPal PLus (while far from perfect) are light years ahead of any of the other CECB tuners on the market.


One last thing and I'll close with this...

1: I bet the persons who wrote up the "rulings" on what could be "included" on a CECB tuners have cable /satellite. I wish every single one of them lose their job and have to go to OTA only..

(Translation: Most politicians, rule makers don't live in the "real-world" that their "rules" affect.)


2: There is alot of talk about "Price-Point" being the reason for a decent guide /S-Video not being included in CECB's as the rule and not the exception. I wonder how much that would have added to the cost if ALL boxes were required to have it.

(I would think the politicians have a "guide" on their cable/satellite box.. I wonder how they'd like it if their "guide" was reduced to the level of non TR-40/DTVPal, DTVPal Plus series units...):D

3: I wish the designers, the marketers and yes those lovely lying politicians were "forced" to hear from their wives, girl friends, boyfriends of their "displeasure" of how these CECB's operate.

If I was running things... All units would have a FULL guide, timers that would turn the unit on at a set time, tune to a channel, and S-Video output.

****


PS: WHAT REMOTE CODES, or aftermarket remotes work the ARTEC UNITS?

Is this info in the opening post?

.

....Ended up ordering some T3AP-LS's thru Meritline..:eek:... Meritline does NOT have a 1-800....After a wait of 10-15 mins on hold each time I called (I called on "my dime" (3) times getting disconnected each time.) upon finally getting someone on the phone . when I did get someone on the phone they acted "short" with me, like I was "bothering" them.... .

sounds like u have no good way to call long distance ( ld ), same as me....i dont have a cell phone/whatever with free or reasonably priced ld....i can only make local calls....so u need to do what i did >

get a GOOGLE VOICE account....u have to apply for an invite from google...i got mine after about a week...its free and will give u free unlimited ld calling to any 48 state usa number....it works well for me....it will call your phone and then put the call through as tho u made the call ....GOOGLE VOICE is a great way to deservedly stick it in the eye of our monopolistic criminal rat bastard phone companies >>>

Google Voice is currently available by invite only. Get an Invite. See how Google Voice works with your phones. ...
http://www.google.com/googlevoice/about.html

sounds like u have no good way to call long distance ( ld ), same as me....i dont have a cell phone/whatever with free or reasonably priced ld....i can only make local calls....so u need to do what i did >

get a GOOGLE VOICE account....u have to apply for an invite from google...i got mine after about a week...its free and will give u free unlimited ld calling to any 48 state usa number....it works well for me....it will call your phone and then put the call through as tho u made the call ....GOOGLE VOICE is a great way to deservedly stick it in the eye of our monopolistic criminal rat bastard phone companies >>>

Google Voice is currently available by invite only. Get an Invite. See how Google Voice works with your phones. ...
http://www.google.com/googlevoice/about.html


Have a cell phone, just hate wasting my minutes and time getting disconnected 3 times to finally talk with someone that sounds like they don't appreciate the business...


.

Does any one know if the T3AP Pro box has an extended program guide like the T3AP-LL and T3AP-LS has?

I went back and read NTSCs posts about his T3AP Pro but could not find any info about EPG.

Does any one know if the T3AP Pro box has an extended program guide like the T3AP-LL and T3AP-LS has?
I went back and read NTSCs posts about his T3AP Pro but could not find any info about EPG.

i have a Artec T3AP Pro and a non-Pro....they are identical except for the extra on-the-box buttons on the Pro.....

the epg on both is NOW/NEXT title with program descriptions for NOW/NEXT only....u can 'look ahead' a few hours but only for program titles....no program descriptions for anything past the NEXT program....which is a shame, its the only real complaint i have of this converter....and getting to those 'look ahead' titles is very slow and awkward....and its channel by channel only....which makes it an even slower and more awkward process....why its so slow i have no idea.....other functions on this unit do not act 'slow' like that...

Hello pm3839 doesn’t all this stuff get confusing. LOL
Yep your link lead me to my first T3AP-LL box I ordered from FreeTVsignal.

NTSCs T3AP Pro box is different from the older pictures of Pro boxes in this thread so I am hoping the newer Pro has the extended program guide?


Pm3839 could you please look and post the System Version (firmware version) of your Artec boxes.


NTSCs states hisT3AP Pro's firmware version is 1.0.4B.

My first T3AP-LL box SN/V1201W084800041x ordered April 2009 was System Version #1.x.x and only had Now/Next program guide. I broke the first LL box so don’t know the complete System Version #.

My T3AP-LS box SN/V1202W08410006xx ordered May 2009 has System Version # 2.0.1B and has the long EPG.

My T3AP- LL box SN/V1201W0925001205 ordered July 2009 System Version # 2.1.1B and has the long EPG.

If I remember correctly FreeTVsignal was out of T3AP-LL boxes for over a month from April to late May or early June.


Thanks
Ron

My LL (2.2.1B) EPG works as pm described but the 'look ahead' list is erratic: Most times when I first select a channel it displays nothing but the list shows up when I channel away&back to that channel. It'll even do this again the next time I select that channel even though I haven't exited the list. Sometimes I get an incomplete list (ex: 3 hrs vs normally close to 12 hrs) until I 'toggle' again.

Speaking of other slow functions, it changes channels rather slow (up/down, recall). It wouldn't bother me if it had a favorites function to speed up surfing.

Another oddity: If you punch in the same channel number (ex: 5) as the channel you're already on it will jump to the next sub (ex: 5.2). I suspect it was designed this way as a feature since I'm the only one that would punch in the same number that I'm already at (I forgot where I was at :o).

Does any one know if the T3AP Pro box has an extended program guide like the T3AP-LL and T3AP-LS has?

I went back and read NTSCs posts about his T3AP Pro but could not find any info about EPG.

Yep, mine has the same slow rudimentary extended program guide that mrpeter105 details in post 132 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16249707&postcount=132). It'll look ahead about 12 hours max, and only displays program name and time for anything past the NEXT program. I don't know if it will do more then 12 hours, that's just all I've ever noticed. And yes, it's firmware version 1.0.4B.

It will also jump to the next sub when you press the channel number you're currently watching. (As Floydage noticed.)

Something for all to keep in mind: the EPG info is broadcast with the signal from EACH individual station. In my experience the dependability of each of the stations in my area Varies Widely at any given time and for any and all of the OTA signal which is also sent over your cable. My point is don't immeadiately blame any CB for crazy sh1rt.

NTSC thanks again for supplying all the good information.


So on your Pro box when you press the EPG button on the remote you don’t see this screen with the program list like the picture below?

This picture is what the long EPG looks like on my T3AP-LS and T3AP-LL ordered after May 2009.


http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6536/epga.jpg

Nope, when I press my EPG button I get...
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/kenrap/epg.jpg



And when I press "INFO", then "Down", I get...
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/kenrap/info.jpg
And pressing the "Right" button shows the description of the "Next" program, General Hospital.

(Pressing the "Down" button is what drops down the description box.)


Let me know if you need any other info, I should be around the rest of today.

Thanks NTSC great pictures as usual.

Something for all to keep in mind: the EPG info is broadcast with the signal from EACH individual station. In my experience the dependability of each of the stations in my area Varies Widely at any given time and for any and all of the OTA signal which is also sent over your cable. My point is don't immeadiately blame any CB for crazy sh1rt.

My problem is my box as I have a CM and it doesn't have the odd behavior I described above. Maybe I got an EPG lemon? I haven't seen anyone else post about this problem.

So it sounds like the Pro has a different EPG BUT if I recall correctly NTSC has an older unit. Anyone have a recent Pro out there?

ron, does you LL and LS have the same EPG?

My problem is my box as I have a CM and it doesn't have the odd behavior I described above. Maybe I got an EPG lemon? I haven't seen anyone else post about this problem.

So it sounds like the Pro has a different EPG BUT if I recall correctly NTSC has an older unit. Anyone have a recent Pro out there?

ron, does you LL and LS have the same EPG?


1: Just a suggestion guys....;)

As many know here Revision numbers and Firmware ID strings vary from units bearing the SAME "model number".

As a suggestion...

1: When posting please refer to "your" unit by it's ID strings (Model number and firmware revision- and build date if possible).

(Posting my Artec T3AP-LL # 2.1.1B this or that in the body of your post ties what is being talked about to that unit more so, than referring to your Artec as "my" Artec this or that..)

(You could also add the build /or purchase date if build date is unknown: Artec T3AP-LL # 2.1.1B (July 2009)



2: When posing pics, please label /title them...(Give a brief description of what the pic is about)

On the EPG posted by Ron350 (for example) pic name is epga.jpg

Labeling it "Artec T3AP-LL # 2.1.1B (July 2009) has EPG up to 12hours out" is a better file-name, (and a title for pic) especially later on down the road when the pics get DELETED...

"Artec T3AP-LL # 2.1.1B (July 2009) has EPG up to 12hours out"
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6536/epga.jpg

(I've seen alot of threads with very useful info de-valued to basically nothing when pics get DELETED... On the flip side on those threads in which the uploader "TITLED" the pic with a description it really helps those who may run across the thread later.... Only takes a few seconds to do and adds much value to the thread...)


3: On the EPG's varying in function... I read on the Sunkey units that earlier units had features later units did not. There was talk about early units having a better EPG than later ones... the talk being that the mfg'ers were having to pay Royalty Fees to TVGOS (or whoever) for each unit shipped so they stripped out advanced guide features. (Extended EPG).

(Zinewell 970A's below 0826? IIRC had a hidden EPG, later units this hidden guide was N/A as firmware had changed. Victim of licensing issues?/Royalty fees?)

WHY do the DTVPAL series units have a decent guide?

From what I read the DishNetwork DTVPal (AKA TR-40), and the DTVPal Plus series units do NOT have to pay these royalties... hence the reason their guides are light-years ahead of the NOW and THEN types...


.

WeAreNotAlone69
In a few weeks when all the CECB Artec boxes have been sold no one will look at this thread again.

Once the last government coupon expires folks will be looking for DVRs with digital tuners.
Should be a forum for DVRs around here somewhere.

WeAreNotAlone69
In a few weeks when all the CECB Artec boxes have been sold no one will look at this thread again.

Once the last government coupon expires folks will be looking for DVRs with digital tuners.
Should be a forum for DVRs around here somewhere.

I've been following this section of the forum for a while so I know all about the CECB market being a short term market. Once the last of the coupons are redeemed /expire in Nov that it's going to be hard-sell for the majority of people to shell out $50-60-$70 for a "CECB converter box".

The point I was trying to make (and BTW I was not "picking" on you- I was just using your ID strings /pic as a example) was that when posting people should refer to the unit by it's ID string.... and yes when posting pics you should "title" /give a description of what the pic is showing.



On no-one looking at this thread again...

While it is true that there will be hardly any people "buying" CECB units after mid Nov-2009 there will be people at a later date(s) that may be having problems with, or Googling for info on a used unit they may have picked up somewhere.

Most will search via model numbers on bottom of unit, Some via what firmware /and or build date.... To that end and I'm sure you would agree when you're doing a search is posting such info is always a "plus" as it helps narrow the search to info that pertains to YOUR unit...

As a example, run a Google search for info on replacing the water-pump on "my car" this or that or some other procedure, or problem you're experiencing, vs doing a search via the car's ID strings...
(Make/Model/Year/Trim level/Engine type.)

I'm sure you would agree that finding posts on a "problem" that is specific to the model YOU have is $$$$ preferable to posts in which posters did not state ID strings....


PS: Have you noticed that there are virtually NO DVR's with hard-drives in the North America market anymore?

Unless it's a DVR with a hard-drive... I won't be buying one..


.

The comments of WeAreNotAlone69 are particularly useful and important when both features and problems can be different within the same model#. Good suggestion.

Once the last government coupon expires folks will be looking for DVRs with digital tuners.
Should be a forum for DVRs around here somewhere.

AVS - DVD Recorders forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=106) (includes units that also have a hard disk)

AVS - HDTV Recorders forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=42)

Meritline is showing the T3AP-LS Free plus coupon again today 10/7/09.

http://www.meritline.com/artec-digital-to-analog-converter-box-model-t3ap---p-29302.aspx


Meritline is showing a single T3AP Pro for $1.99 after coupon and 2 free with 2 coupons?

http://www.meritline.com/artec-full-digital-conventer-box-t3a-pro-digital-to-analog-converter-box---p-26418.aspx

I am waiting to see if the latest Pro box they are selling has the long EPG before ordering one.

Interesting. On Meritline, I had been doing a search for "dtv converter" to see everything but I see that I'm getting a 'sale-less' screen (but the sales show up when I click on each item). I navigated through the site manually and now I see the sales (i.e. old "sale" price slashed):

http://www.meritline.com/digital-tv-converter-box---c-7689.aspx

Other boxes on sale too.

AVS - DVD Recorders forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=106) (includes units that also have a hard disk)

AVS - HDTV Recorders forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=42)


Regarding ATSC OTA recording solutions:


Around 8 months ago I briefly researched for a reasonably priced recording solution to replace wife's VCR due to the Digital transition.

I found much to her dismay VERY few OTA ATSC Non-Subscription *HARD-DRIVE based type recorders. The "story" being that the subsidized cable /satellite boxes had pretty much decimated the market.... so the mfg'rs pulled out of the market.

(I excluded Subscription (Tivo), GREY-MARKET, or "high-priced" units)
GREY-MARKET=Not sold or supported by the manufacturer for sale in the North American market.)

*Hard drive recording is light years ahead of recording to a dvd disc, RW disc holds 4.7gb.. which isn't much space. Additionally you can expect the dvd burner to burn out much sooner than a hard drive.

Sad thing is right now due to the digital transition, and with Canada going digital soon that there is a HUGE market that the manufacturers are ignoring. There are millions upon millions of persons with VCR's , and/or ANALOGUE type DVR's looking for a recording solution.

(Hint-Hint to all the manufacturer's "shills" /insiders who may run across this post...
1: Every person that has a VCR, and/or ANALOGUE DVR without a ATSC tuner is a potential customer.. Think about how many VCR's are out there with ANALOGUE tuners in them which are due to the digital transition pretty much useless.
2: There is a market "out there" that due to the digital transition should be viable now more so than before the cut-off.

EG: Due to the digital transition with the increased number of OTA stations /programing being transmitted in "crystal clear DVD like clarity " that rivals and surpasses what you get with cable or satellite and most being in HD people ARE looking for VCR and ANALOGUE DVR replacements. Due to these factors, people that would a few years ago who would have not have been interested in a OTA recorder looking to save money are seriously thinking about dropping their cable, going to OTA only.

Translation: There is a large numbers of potential customers out there who would buy hard drive based OTA recorders.)



***************

Philips 3575/3576 and Magnavox H2160
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657

DTVPal DVR - 90 day warranty- Sort of tells you how much faith they have in the unit, eh?

Can Anyone recommend the DTVPal DVR After Using it For One Year
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17317262

The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15369795#post15369795


Comparison Chart of available OTA recorders
(Compare these specs to what a PC running a HDHomeRun, or SEVERAL HDHomeRun tuners can do! NOTE: Each HDHomeRun has (2) tuners- So with a PC you can record 2,4, 6, 8? channels.... Additionally note: With a PC based solution hard drive space is unlimited /easily expanded)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17251356&postcount=6



*******************

After reviewing all the Pro's, and Con's I went with a PC based recording solution (and yes it is viewable via TV thru S-Video, and to the 61" Big screen Tv via HDMI/DVI.)

(*Note that most ALL TV's these days have HDMI, so PC to TV should not be much of a problem.)

Solution I arrived at was a SiliconDust HDHomeRun tuner and a PC running WIN7 Media Center which gives me GUIDE data, with detailed program info out to (2) weeks.

PS: Since the tuner plugs into your "NETWORK" ....The tuner(s) and guide programming are accessible via ANY computer on your network... Additionally note you can EXPAND your system (add tuners), and EXPAND HARD DRIVE SPACE VERY EASILY SINCE you are using a PC.

NOTE: If buying used, you want to try to find a REV 2 unit... On the bottom of the unit is a sticker... if if starts of 1013 (or above) I'm pretty sure it's a REV 2 unit.

To verify /get support check out the support forums:

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/


HDHomeRun® Networked Digital TV Tuner

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815327005

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun_atsc

HDHomeRun® Networked Digital TV Tuner
One Box, Two Digital Tuners, Anywhere on Your Network

* Watch TV from any computer on your network.
* Record full 1080i broadcast resolution.
* Pause, rewind, fast-forward live TV.
* Schedule and record all your favorite TV shows.
* Expand with multiple HDHomeRun devices.

TV sources

* For use in United States and Canada:
o ATSC over-the-air digital TV.
o Unencrypted digital cable.
* For Europe, Australia, and New Zealand click here

Works with popular DVR software:

* Pause, rewind, fast-forward live TV.
* Record all your favorite TV shows by name.
* Integrated TV guide (provided by the DVR software).

Seamless operation with multiple computers:

* Run Vista Media Center on multiple computers sharing the pool of HDHomeRun tuners.
* Tuners are automatically allocated between computers as needed.
* Multiple HDHomeRun units can be used together to expand the number of tuners.
* Tuner pooling works with Windows Media Center, BeyondTV, SageTV, GBPVR, MediaPortal, and TotalMedia.
* Free software/firmware upgrade available for download.

Compatible With:

* Windows Media Center:
o MCE 2005 (32/64-bit)
o Vista WMC (32/64-bit)
o WMC TV Pack (32/64-bit)
o Windows 7 (32/64-bit)
* Elgato EyeTV - DVR for Mac
* MythTV - DVR for Linux
* SnapStream BeyondTV - DVR for Windows
* SageTV - DVR for Windows/Linux/Mac
* MediaPortal - DVR for Windows
* GB-PVR - DVR for Windows
* VLC - Multi-platform media viewer
* TSReader - MPEG-2 transport stream analysis

Specifications:

* 8-VSB (ATSC over-the-air digital TV)
* QAM64/256 (unencrypted digital cable TV)
* 100baseTX high speed network
* 1 year warranty

Requirements:

* 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 or better for HD playback
* 512 MB RAM (1 GB recommended)
* 1-4 GB per 1/2 hour of DTV recording
.

WeAreNotAlone69,
Good, informative post. I have had HTPC, MCE 2005, for almost 3 years now, OTA only. Can't be beat. I would recomend that if you are not PC literate that you buy an already set up out of the box ready to go unit. If you do not have a Digital TV and have to use a CB for OTA it will be much more complicated as far as the EPG goes. As for any additional expense remember it is a PC and HTPC is just another application.

I thought I read somewhere that the content suppliers didn't like the idea of viewers being able to have copies of original content that equaled the original quality and haven't been able to completely control copyright issues.

That said, with the rise in PC based recording, is there any profit in consumer grade recording equipment? Look at what's happening to the CECB market. I can't believe Channel Master will be the only manufacturer who continues to produce a STB.

They may not like it but whatever quality you can recieve DTV OTA can be recorded and played back at the same quality on a PC and a nice big flatscreen TV. You can have a TIVO capability and with OTA NO monthly charges. That can pay for your PC in a couple years or less. I believe only unencrypted cable is possible though.

.....I can't believe Channel Master will be the only manufacturer who continues to produce a STB.

I am interested in where you might have bumped in that info?

I ask because when I was talking to them on the phone about the button debounce and badly overlapping rotor/cecb remote control issues,
they seemed to indicate to me that it wouldn't be worth a firmware rewrite for a unit they would only be producing a few more months...

I'm not challenging you, I'll glady call CM myself to confirm this.
I just would like to be able to quote "Something" on the issue when I call.

WeAreNotAlone69,

I would like to ask you what CECB's you have tried in your enviroment with the same antenna feed you use on this HD Home Run unit?

Features are wonderful, but I am asking specifically about the sensitivity of the tuner and ability to hold sync compared to common CECB models we all know in this forum (I am assuming you must have at least one of them to be in this forum's section...).

Thank you for any input you can afford this topic.


Update:
Upon reading COMMENTS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16815327005) by people that have also purchased this unit,
it looks like another awsome piece of hardware with crappy software.

Note to potential purchasers (Like me).
Sadly although it does do Clear (Unencrypted) cable QAM,
it does not do plain NTSC cable as a well.
To bad, this is perfect otherwise...

Hello pm3839 doesn’t all this stuff get confusing. LOL Yep your link lead me to my first T3AP-LL box I ordered from FreeTVsignal.
NTSCs T3AP Pro box is different from the older pictures of Pro boxes in this thread so I am hoping the newer Pro has the extended program guide?

Pm3839 could you please look and post the System Version (firmware version) of your Artec boxes. NTSCs states hisT3AP Pro's firmware version is 1.0.4B.

My first T3AP-LL box SN/V1201W084800041x ordered April 2009 was System Version #1.x.x and only had Now/Next program guide. I broke the first LL box so don’t know the complete System Version #.
My T3AP-LS box SN/V1202W08410006xx ordered May 2009 has System Version # 2.0.1B and has the long EPG.
My T3AP- LL box SN/V1201W0925001205 ordered July 2009 System Version # 2.1.1B and has the long EPG...... Thanks Ron

sorry for the delay in replying...i havnt been able to get online the last few days...

the firmware in my Artec T3AP PRO box (purchased 1/09) is version 1.0.4B.....i loaned out my non-Pro box so i cant check its firmware # but i think it was the same 1.0.4B...and my EPG and INFO screens are the same as what NTSC showed in his post for both the Pro and the non-Pro boxes...

heres something that i really like about the ARTECS >
a channel doesnt have to be in memory or have been previously scanned to be displayed....example, enter any channel number and the tuner will tune to that actual rf channel and display its video if a signal is present...

this is great for checking random distant (dx) signals that only sometimes will be present due to weather/tropo conditions, etc....theres no need to go thru the whole channel scan process...and if u enter the rf channel # of a channel that has already been scanned to memory it will 're-tune' to that channels virtual/PSIP channel number and display it....

my TR40 and ZINWELL boxes will not do that....the TR40 will go to the nearest channel number in memory and the ZINWELL simply displays a NO CHANNEL error message....

I don't have any information on how much longer they are going to produce the unit, but I thought there was a post in the associated thread about how they are possibly the only supplier still manufacturing CECB's.

....enter any channel number and the tuner will tune to that actual rf channel and display its video if a signal is present

Just like all equipment "Used" to do...
Gosh I wish ALL manufactures would retain the obvious.

Thank you for noting that feature for all of us,
it is one of those things you would only find by accident (Usually).

I am really liking these units, and when I'm through with the current ubber-project I've taken on I will research a S-Video mod for my plain vanilla (Non-pro) LL unit and share with all.

I'll do the mod for free on a "Pro" unit in trade for a copy of the firmware too,
I'll even pay shipping on one of the two directions to be fair.
(I'll recode my current serial into the Pro firmware before flashing...)

heres something that i really like about the ARTECS >
a channel doesnt have to be in memory or have been previously scanned to be displayed....example, enter any channel number and the tuner will tune to that actual rf channel and display its video if a signal is present...

That explains why I saw something unusual with my LL the other day - I accidentally punched in the wrong digits and it showed "no audio" rather than the usual "no signal," as if it was picking up a weak signal.

Your RF # method discovery is a neat feature. I wish I could do that on my VCRed Zinwell that won't hold lock for more than 15 minutes on RF CH 11; this CBS station also transmits on UHF so I have to make sure I'm on the right RF CH when I record.

Meritline is showing a single T3AP Pro for $1.99 after coupon and 2 free with 2 coupons?

http://www.meritline.com/artec-full-digital-conventer-box-t3a-pro-digital-to-analog-converter-box---p-26418.aspx

I am waiting to see if the latest Pro box they are selling has the long EPG before ordering one.

OK, I'm in for one Pro. I figure always good to have a spare (and esp a spare remote!) since I bought the LL for my van.

A little scary the site doesn't verify the coupon when you order while the receipt implies I'm paying the full price.

IMPORTANT!: With our coupons approaching expiration, watch out for the stores' cut-off times. As I processed the order it stated 7 days for Meritline. I couldn't find any info at freeTVsignal (may have to go through the order process to see it). I suspect Amazon and retail outlets have much shorter requirements.

Hey, did anyone add their own CH/VOL buttons to their non-Pros?

That Meritline check out sounds scary.

Hey, did anyone add their own CH/VOL buttons to their non-Pros?

I am looking for the right box to put it in like a small satellite box with buttons on the front.

RE: Scary Meritline.com/ checkout.

NOTE: If you have CECB $0 off coupons...
NO credit card is needed if ordering (2) boxes if they are priced at $80... as cost after coupons with FREE SHIPPING is (0).

Terms are:

Order must be placed at least 7 days before coupon expiration date. We do not redeem coupon expired on the same day as the order date. We do not redeem coupon On Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

********************

Only thing you need to be aware of is you need to copy and paste digital80off into the coupon box if ordering (2) units, for (1) digital40off,.... and make sure to enter you coupon numbers into the "order Notes" box, BEFORE clicking the CHECKOUT NOW button.

**************

PS... If you have coupons.... You have to MANUALLY input them into the ORDER NOTES SECTION box, BEFORE SUBMITTING your ORDER (CHECKING OUT)

Once you add the items to your cart

ADD: digital80off into the coupon box if ordering (2) units, for (1) digital40off, CLICK APPLY, Type in your ZIP code...and CLICK GO.

THEN SCROLL DOWN THE PAGE to the "ORDER NOTES" section and type into the box your Coupon numbers, the Expiration date and the CVV2 numbers....... BEFORE CLICKING ON THE "CHECKOUT NOW" BUTTON.....

On the checkout page I think you verify which shipping method =Ground Service $0.00.... and submit order

*******************


FYI: They have restocked....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17350644#post17350644

Artec T3AP-LS=$40 for one, $80 for (2) FREE SHIPPING (Sanyo Tuner)

Artec T3A Pro=$42 for one, $80 for (2) FREE SHIPPING (Sanyo Tuner?)

Artec T3AP-LL=$44 for one, $80 for (2) FREE SHIPPING (LG Tuner)

Artec T3APR with TV GUIDE $55, 105 for (2) FREE SHIPPING



PS: Order receipt will show COUPON Info you entered in the "Order Notes" section at time of order. It will also show "digital40off, or digital80off" right below your Subtotal

Subtotal ..........................$80.00
Coupon (digital80off)....... -80.00
Shipping (Ground Service):.. 0.00
Tax:......................................0.00 (There is probably tax in CA.)
Total:....................................0.00

I would advise all placing a order to verify info on Order Receipt, retain there cards...


.
.

WeAreNotAlone69,

I would like to ask you what CECB's you have tried in your enviroment with the same antenna feed you use on this HD Home Run unit?

Features are wonderful, but I am asking specifically about the sensitivity of the tuner and ability to hold sync compared to common CECB models we all know in this forum (I am assuming you must have at least one of them to be in this forum's section...).

Thank you for any input you can afford this topic.


Update:
Upon reading COMMENTS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16815327005) by people that have also purchased this unit,
it looks like another awsome piece of hardware with crappy software.

Note to potential purchasers (Like me).
Sadly although it does do Clear (Unencrypted) cable QAM,
it does not do plain NTSC cable as a well.
To bad, this is perfect otherwise...


Sensitivity of the SiliconDust HDHomeRun tuner- compared to CECB's.

I have several (many) CECB boxes.
DTVPal Plus (3)
Zenith DTT901 (1)
Zinewell 950 (2)
Zinewell 970A (1)
APEX DT502 (3)
And
Artec- Pro's (Sanyo tuner?) (2) on their way to me now..

The only units I really use are primarily the DTVPal Plus units... Nice to have that guide (WAF). Been a while since I've had anything else connected up.

You asked about the sensitivity of the SiliconDust HDHomeRun tuner- compared to CECB's. My antenna setup is (really) screwed up right (damaged, plus trees in the way old cabling, etc) now feeding (I think) the HDHomerun and a DTVPal. DTVPal is slightly more sensitive with the HDHomeRun being slightly more sensitive than the APEX DT502's..

On the HDHomeRun software...

There is a install program that scans for channels, and a program built into that to confirms the tuners are working.

There is also a "new" app called HDHomeRun TV that allows quick access...(If you have nothing else- or you suspect you MCE app is screwed up.)

Beyond that the tuner relies upon the below apps to function:

* Windows Media Center:
o MCE 2005 (32/64-bit)
o Vista WMC (32/64-bit)
o WMC TV Pack (32/64-bit)
o Windows 7 (32/64-bit)
* Elgato EyeTV - DVR for Mac
* MythTV - DVR for Linux
* SnapStream BeyondTV - DVR for Windows
* SageTV - DVR for Windows/Linux/Mac
* MediaPortal - DVR for Windows
* GB-PVR - DVR for Windows
* VLC - Multi-platform media viewer (FREE)


.

Thanks for providing the very detailed Meritline ordering info. I think I screwed up not putting in the digitalxxoff entry but I did enter the card info in the comment box. So all the invoice stuff says I'm paying full price but when I checked my CC charges the other day it showed $1.99 (Pro). I suspect the 7 day/no F-Sat-Sun rqt is because they don't have automated coupon status-check like some of the other sites.

My Pro came in pretty quick for free shipping. Stated "Parcel Expedited" on the paperwork. Oddly enough USPS and in a tough bubble-wrap envelope so with the small size of this CECB it actually fit in my standard-size mailbox. Hey, if it keeps the cost down and arrives safely I'm all for it.

BTW in the past I wrote that the Pro comes with an A/V cable but after further review of the Ultima/Artec website that is incorrect. I saw that info on an online retailer website, I think it was freeTVsignal, so they must have been throwing it in as an extra (unless of course older model Pros had it).

Sensitivity of the SiliconDust HDHomeRun tuner- compared to CECB's.

You asked about the sensitivity of the SiliconDust HDHomeRun tuner- compared to CECB's.

...the DTVPal is slightly more sensitive
with the HDHomeRun being slightly more sensitive than the APEX DT502's...



Thank you for that feedback for all of us to reference. :)

Still sad the SiliconDust HDHomeRun also does Clear-QAM (Cable),
but not the analog NTSC that comes down the same wire too!
Or all of our low power repeaters, and other broadcast analogs...

BTW: LS=Sanyo tuner / LL=LG tuner

Of course there's the obvious CH/VOL buttons on the box. An interesting discovery is that the OSD/Menu is operational through combinational button pushes (described in the manual). First box I've seen with any kind of RC-less menu capability - I like it!

Bummer!: The Pro's EPG is Now/Next vs ~12 hour list for the LL. INFO is the same. Just like NTSC's #307 post.

Tuning: Seemed pretty much the same based on the channels they picked up (identical) and the tuning bars/beepers. A few channels signaled a little stronger on one box vs the other with no clear winner. I compared an obscure Spanish station that was weaker than the others here and observed similar break-up. My antenna (attic with excellent gable shot through fiber board) reception is excellent and I used two two-way splitters in series (-6 dB or 1/4 power). Anyone have a step attenuator I can borrow? :rolleyes: Who knows if those tuning bars/beepers are calibrated unit to unit?

The Pro has a mechanical CH 3/4 switch on the back, the LL is selectable in the menu.

Remote: The Pro lacks the aspect ratio button of the LL (bummer!). The Pro has a silver surface that is easier to see in low light, LL is black.

The switching (efficient) wall-warts are different but have the same specs. I like these skinny sideways wall-warts.

Recent model Pro vs LL comparison

Pro: 1.0.4A
LL: 2.2.1B

Floidage thanks for the information on the T3AP Pro.

Remote: The Pro lacks the aspect ratio button of the LL (bummer!). The Pro has a silver surface that is easier to see in low light, LL is black.

That is sad about the aspect ratio.
One of the things I like about the Artec T3AP-LL, T3AP-LS, and Zenith DTT901 is being able to set the aspect ratio separately for each channel.

The Pro has a mechanical CH 3/4 switch on the back, the LL is selectable in the menu.

Remote: The Pro lacks the aspect ratio button of the LL (bummer!). The Pro has a silver surface that is easier to see in low light, LL is black.


Hmm... Both of my T3AP Pros came with the all black remotes. The remotes that include the "RATIO" button. Both boxes are v1.0.4B. And both were brand new when I bought them (from an eBay seller in Texas) in late May '09. But I don't know when or where they were originally purchased.

The newest IC date code found inside mine is Oct 2008, so I figure they probably were sold some time between Dec 2008 and Jan 2009. The serial numbers are only two digits apart, and both start with V1203W0903000xxx

OK, now I'm curious, I wonder if the silver front remotes still have the "RATIO" button's contacts painted on their circuit board. In other words, I wonder if they both share the same circuit board, but the silver faced ones are just missing the actual "RATIO" button. Anyone want to pop a silver one open and look? :)

And lastly, neither of mine have the mechanical CH 3/4 switch on the back. Channel selection is done via the menu. Both have the 3 pin data port, and both have the space on the board for a (MIA) smart antenna connector. Unfortunately, I guess that feature never made it into production. Both of these can be seen in my post #213 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17035630&postcount=213).

Oh, and according to the box, they both have analog pass-through. (Though I've never actually tested this feature.)

Floidage thanks for the information on the T3AP Pro.



That is sad about the aspect ratio.
One of the things I like about the Artec T3AP-LL, T3AP-LS, and Zenith DTT901 is being able to set the aspect ratio separately for each channel.

It still can be set via menu but what a pain for each channel (I set everything to Cropped). I tried the LL remote Aspect button on it but it didn't work. Can a fancy U-remote store a series of button pushes as a single button push/function?

Hey, did anyone confirm that 'recent' LSs have the LL EPG?

Hmm... Both of my T3AP Pros came with the all black remotes. The remotes that include the "RATIO" button. Both boxes are v1.0.4B. And both were brand new when I bought them (from an eBay seller in Texas) in late May '09. But I don't know when or where they were originally purchased.

The newest IC date code found inside mine is Oct 2008, so I figure they probably were sold some time between Dec 2008 and Jan 2009. The serial numbers are only two digits apart, and both start with V1203W0903000xxx

OK, now I'm curious, I wonder if the silver front remotes still have the "RATIO" button's contacts painted on their circuit board. In other words, I wonder if they both share the same circuit board, but the silver faced ones are just missing the actual "RATIO" button. Anyone want to pop a silver one open and look? :)

And lastly, neither of mine have the mechanical CH 3/4 switch on the back. Channel selection is done via the menu. Both have the 3 pin data port, and both have the space on the board for a (MIA) smart antenna connector. Unfortunately, I guess that feature never made it into production. Both of these can be seen in my post #213 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17035630&postcount=213).

Oh, and according to the box, they both have analog pass-through. (Though I've never actually tested this feature.)

Darn, sounds like they sent me old stuff. Your code is version B and mine is A, analog pass-through is typically a newer feature as well as software controlled CH 3/4 switches. It does have a data port on the back; maybe a B firmware load would get it up to date but I don't have the capability of doing that (plus could you lose factory tune settings?).

S/N: V1201W0830000xxx (quite a bit lower than your Pros).

Hopefully there's some nifty feature the old ones have I haven't discovered yet (ex: Zinwell hidden extended EPG via U-remote) :D. My tuner 'should' be different due to the lack of analog pass-through.

BTW, how did you open the box? Are there screws under the feet?

I can feel a hole under the remote's silver escutcheon where the RATIO button should be. My Pro won't respond to my LL's remote for this function so it would require some software change (hopefully not the remote). You're probably right about the circuit board since it's cheaper to use a common PCB for mutliple kits. Plus I suspect these companies buy their remotes from outside sources.

Darn, sounds like they sent me old stuff. Your code is version B and mine is A, analog pass-through is typically a newer feature as well as software controlled CH 3/4 switches. It does have a data port on the back; maybe a B firmware load would get it up to date but I don't have the capability of doing that (plus could you lose factory tune settings?).

S/N: V1201W0830000xxx (quite a bit lower than your Pros).

Hopefully there's some nifty feature the old ones have I haven't discovered yet (ex: Zinwell hidden extended EPG via U-remote) :D. My tuner 'should' be different due to the lack of analog pass-through.

BTW, how did you open the box? Are there screws under the feet?

I can feel a hole under the remote's silver escutcheon where the RATIO button should be. My Pro won't respond to my LL's remote for this function so it would require some software change (hopefully not the remote). You're probably right about the circuit board since it's cheaper to use a common PCB for mutliple kits. Plus I suspect these companies buy their remotes from outside sources.

Yes, peel off the two front feet. There's only two screws holding the case together, remove them and work the back loose.

And to open the remote, I just used a thin guitar pick. Run it up/down each side, it'll open quite easily.

BTW, my board has an 0840 date code. (40th week of 2008)

BTW, my board has an 0840 date code. (40th week of 2008)

NTSC where is the date code located?

NTSC where is the date code located?

Usually it's silk screened onto the board somewhere. Like in the pict below.

If it's not, you can usually get a good idea of an item's manufacture date by looking at the different date codes printed on each IC. Those codes tell you the week the ICs were manufactured. Depending on demand for an item, or how fast it needs to get to market, you can usually add 1 to 3 months to the newest date found. - For these CECBs it would (should) be close to a month or so. - None of this is an exact science, but it will usually get you in the ball park.

It sure would have been nice if Artec had put a date on each box like Zenith did.
The only thing silk screened on my circuit boards is V96.

My first T3AP-LL box
SN/V1201W084800041x ordered April 2009 was System Version #1.x.x and only had Now/Next program guide. I broke the first LL box so don’t know the complete System Version #.
LG chip date 0822

My T3AP-LS box
SN/V1202W08410006xx ordered May 2009 has System Version # 2.0.1B and has the long EPG.
LG chip date 0835

My T3AP- LL box
SN/V1201W0925001205 ordered July 2009 System Version # 2.1.1B and has the long EPG.
LG chip date 0907

I suspect the date code may be the Wyyww (yr/wk) part of the S/N.

My new to me but dusty Pro (argh!):
W0830
PCB 0813
LG 0805

I suspect the date code may be the Wyyww (yr/wk) part of the S/N.

Yeah, so far that's what it's looking like.

Of course, now that we've said it... somebody will come along and prove it's wrong. :p

UPDATE:
Actually, the more I think about it, the more sense it makes...

The digits on the extreme right would represent the actual number of units produced for that week. As each new week begins, the unit count is reset back to zero (or one). That would account for all of the low numbers on the right side.

PCB labeled:

145 x 37
070804D-1
1621-8651

There is a contact pad for the RATIO button position on the PCB. I can see where they cut the button off of the rubber switch panel.

In fact there are six more holes (2x3) in the plastic below INFO FREEZE SLEEP. I can see that the rubber switch panel was cut at that point. The PCB has the top three contact pads.

'One size fits all, build to suit!'

So out of curiosity I tried the unused buttons:

RATIO:
LL: After ~15 sec a box pops up with "Automatically going to SLEEP mode, according to the ENERGY POLICY" and then the box shuts off.
Pro: No response.

Below INFO:
LL: Reset, ugh! Powered off and then back on with Install Guide (yes, lost everything!).
Pro: No response.

Below FREEZE:
LL: RATIO, yeah!
Pro: No response.

Below SLEEP:
LL: No response.
Pro: No response.

Pro: 1.0.4A
LL: 2.2.1B

Your mileage may vary since, unfortunately, my 'new' Pro is an older model with older firmware. There's also the potential issue of the version of the remote IC.

Speaking of firmware, is the memory IC reprogrammable? My Pro has a sticker on the IC (V1.04A).

I suspect the date code may be the Wyyww (yr/wk) part of the S/N.

My new to me but dusty Pro (argh!):
W0830
PCB 0813
LG 0805

I got the clue from the Zinwells as I believe that's how they're done. Right in the middle of the S/N too and underlined for quick ref.

NO analog pass-through (Sanyo tuner). I re-checked the Meritline website and they don't list it like the other models so they're not doing anything wrong, just selling an older model (hence the great price). The Artec website does list the Pro as having this feature. Kind of kills my point of trying to find out about recent Pros though. Oh well.

The inside looks pretty much identical to the old Pro discussed here in post #215: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17035705&postcount=215

but I wasn't fortunate enough to get the bonus switch to the left installed. Even some of the numbers I can read are the same. Mine has a firmware version sticker on the memory IC by the IR sensor. Sorry I don't have a digital camera.

PCB labeled:

145 x 37
070804D-1
1621-8651

There is a contact pad for the RATIO button position on the PCB. I can see where they cut the button off of the rubber switch panel.

In fact there are six more holes (2x3) in the plastic below INFO FREEZE SLEEP. I can see that the rubber switch panel was cut at that point. The PCB has the top three contact pads.

'One size fits all, build to suit!'

So out of curiosity I tried the unused buttons:

RATIO:
LL: After ~15 sec a box pops up with "Automatically going to SLEEP mode, according to the ENERGY POLICY" and then the box shuts off.
Pro: No response.

Below INFO:
LL: Reset, ugh! Powered off and then back on with Install Guide (yes, lost everything!).
Pro: No response.

Below FREEZE:
LL: RATIO, yeah!
Pro: No response.

Below SLEEP:
LL: No response.
Pro: No response.

Pro: 1.0.4A
LL: 2.2.1B

Your mileage may vary since, unfortunately, my 'new' Pro is an older model with older firmware. There's also the potential issue of the version of the remote IC.

Speaking of firmware, is the memory IC reprogrammable? My Pro has a sticker on the IC (V1.04A).

• Mine also has the six extra "covered" holes in the remote's front panel. (Below INFO FREEZE & SLEEP.)
• And the same "cut" button sheet.
• And the same three hidden contact pads on the board.
• Mine also has a sticker inside the battery compartment that reads 081005.

My hidden pads do the following...
(Again, the all black remote)

The one below INFO:
Factory Reset. Powers off, then back on with the setup menu.

The one below FREEZE:
Same as hitting my RATIO button.

The one below SLEEP:
No response.

The remote control's transmitter IC is a TT6222-1.

--
T3AP Pro
v1.0.4B
W0903

• Mine also has a sticker inside the battery compartment that reads 081005.

The remote control's transmitter IC is a TT6222-1.

080312 and the same IC for my old Pro.

Interesting. I was about to conclude that the remotes function the same based on my LL reacting the same as your Pro until I realized the difference with the RATIO button. Weird. The good news is that it appears you can resurrect the RATIO function on a silver remote, just from a different location.

Wonder what Meritline is doing now?

Try to order an Artec T3AP-LL and they say 12 minimum order?

http://www.meritline.com/artec-full-digital-conventer-box-t3ap-pro-digital-to-analog-converter-box---p-29296.aspx

Strange stuff.

Wonder what Meritline is doing now?

Try to order an Artec T3AP-LL and they say 12 minimum order?

http://www.meritline.com/artec-full-digital-conventer-box-t3ap-pro-digital-to-analog-converter-box---p-29296.aspx

Strange stuff.

Indeed. Doesn't make sense as far as coupons go. Sounds like a web error so you might try this:

"To report web related issues,
Please email us at webmaster@meritline.com"

Otherwise they're long-distance. Based on 'Contact Us' I get the impression they don't want people calling them. Note this too:

"Meritline.com does not accept phone, fax or email order"

although they have an email address with the word "order" in it. :rolleyes:

Wonder what Meritline is doing now?

Try to order an Artec T3AP-LL and they say 12 minimum order?

http://www.meritline.com/artec-full-digital-conventer-box-t3ap-pro-digital-to-analog-converter-box---p-29296.aspx

Strange stuff.

Now it shows out of stock on that model (but not other Artecs). I guess they sold all 12 of them at once. :rolleyes:

Guess I am too slow this is the second time I tried to order the LL box and they said they were out?

Just tried to order an LS box but the box for the CECB coupon is just a large blank box.

Do you just type in the 16 digit code then the date and then the 3 digit CCV #?

Like this 1234567890123456 11/1/2009 123

Guess I am too slow this is the second time I tried to order the LL box and they said they were out?

Just tried to order an LS box but the box for the CECB coupon is just a large blank box.

Do you just type in the 16 digit code then the date and then the 3 digit CCV #?

Like this 1234567890123456 11/1/2009 123

Nah, I bet they were out and their system put in the number 12 instead of saying out of stock.

That's what I did but in post #329 he tells you how to do it properly. I may have got lucky but haven't got my official credit card statement either.

NOTE: The site states a 7 day cut-off on expiration dates. I have two cards expiring on 10/26 so I don't think I'll chance it, looking at other avenues.

This place might be worth calling to see if they know if it's an LS or LL if one has to have an LL:

http://www.digital-tv-converter.net/artect3apdigitaltoanalogtvconverterbox.aspx

Free after coupon but looks to be $6.95 to ship. The good news is they state at the top that coupons can be used up to the last day by 5 PM EST for us last minute procrastinators. I hoped that the boxes shown without the "(shipping charges may apply)" underneath wouldn't have shipping charges but I was proven wrong when I tested it on the DTVPal (too rich for my blood!).

One last try at Sears tomorrow for me on the $50 DTVPal. Then I pay up at Best Buy for a Apex DT250A ($55) since Target ($50) purchasing has gone kaput.

http://www.digital-tv-converter.net/artect3apdigitaltoanalogtvconverterbox.aspx

The Artec from this add could be an old T3AP or T3AP-LL or newer T3AP-LS, or T3AP-LL.

I ordered a T3AP-LS from Meritline to see what they will send.
At least all the T3AP-LS boxes should have the long EPG.

After comparing the LS and new LL boxes I have noticed that the LL has more pixelation from bad weather and airplanes than the LS box.

Don’t forget to call all your K-mart stores and check for CECB’s.

If you have the option to buy a CECB other than the DT250A, I wouldn't buy the APEX.

I stopped by my local "BOX" retail stores and found that K-Mart, Target, and Wal-Mart have no CECB's for sale.

http://www.digital-tv-converter.net/artect3apdigitaltoanalogtvconverterbox.aspx

The Artec from this add could be an old T3AP or T3AP-LL or newer T3AP-LS, or T3AP-LL.

I ordered a T3AP-LS from Meritline to see what they will send.
At least all the T3AP-LS boxes should have the long EPG.

After comparing the LS and new LL boxes I have noticed that the LL has more pixelation from bad weather and airplanes than the LS box.

Don’t forget to call all your K-mart stores and check for CECB’s.

Yeah it's hard to say, their pics show both black and silver remotes. They may not know exactly what they have unless one asks them to read off the front of the box (my LL box has the -LL on it but I don't know if the LS has -LS on it). Somehow I suspect a T3AP has a Sanyo tuner (Pro, LL appears newer, etc.) but the other features who knows?

Good to know about the LS EPG.

They closed all the K-marts in D/FW, probably because of the Sears merger.

If you have the option to buy a CECB other than the DT250A, I wouldn't buy the APEX.

I stopped by my local "BOX" retail stores and found that K-Mart, Target, and Wal-Mart have no CECB's for sale.

I was looking for the DT502 based on your rec. Supposedly there was one left per electronic inventory at one of my Best Buys but the fools couldn't find it. I was giving into a DT250A to waste a coupon, longer EPG (I think), S-video, smart antenna, and variety (CM, Zinwell, and Artec). Frys no longer carries any boxes (CM). I guess I could go for the other two and attempt a trade, at least they're free or dirt cheap. The DTVPal would cost me $27 (ugh, not even a Plus!).

So the DT250A is pretty bad?

If you can find a DT502, you'd be better off. S-Video and the Smart-Antenna features are available on the DT-250/DT-250A's. I've boxed my DT-250 up and would have to look back at the thread to see it's full capabilities. I do know that it's not as sensitive and has a very simple menu system (as compared to the DT-502).

If you can find a DT502, you'd be better off. S-Video and the Smart-Antenna features are available on the DT-250/DT-250A's. I've boxed my DT-250 up and would have to look back at the thread to see it's full capabilities. I do know that it's not as sensitive and has a very simple menu system (as compared to the DT-502).

Thanks for the info! I thought I read over yonder thread that it had about 3 days EPG but it wasn't clear whether it was a 250 or 250A. Plus some of these boxes seem to change over time. No info on the 250A on Wiki either. Some folks sound like they like it and others just hate it (I wonder of manufacturing yield problems?). Maybe I can get them to hook it up (doubtful>antenna). At least it's Best Buy and I can return it but probably coupon suicide if they don't have another brand to swap out.

I chickened out on the Apex DT250 (BestBuy.com lists it w/o the A but says it has analog pass-through so I don't know what the difference is, Wiki does't help either). Partly because I ran out of time and partly because of fear of wasting $20. :D

I went for a couple more free Amazon Zinwells to add to my ZAT-970A pile. Another Artec would have been nice but I was well past Meritline's 7 day coupon expiry rqt. Maybe I can make a trade for a DTVPal-ish or Apex DT502/A (more 'A' uncertainty).

There isn't a DT502A. I don't believe anyone has found why APEX added an "A" to the DT250 units.

There isn't a DT502A. I don't believe anyone has found why APEX added an "A" to the DT250 units.

That's weird. Wiki lists as if there is and there's a #3 footnote that links to a contradictory (to Wiki) feature list (A's having fewer features). Thanks for the info.

There isn't a DT502A. I don't believe anyone has found why APEX added an "A" to the DT250 units.

I'm not quiet sure why we are all talking about this in this thread...

But I'm afraid I'm going to have to diisagree with you on this point.

If the Apex DT502A doesn't exist,
then why can I Register it HERE (http://www.apexdigitalinc.com/registration/Registration.asp?pid=02&c=Converter%20Box)?
(Note there IS a DT250A also...)

I have called a few times,
but the people answering are not aware of product internals differences.
In fact, they were so brutally stupid to the extent I simply gave up...

You can FAX your question to Linda here however:
909-230-4829

Persue this to your own extent from here, I give up...
I have seen an internal pic somewhere of the two beside each other,
the tuners were different from 502 to 502A.

But I'm afraid I'm going to have to diisagree with you on this point.

If the Apex DT502A doesn't exist,
then why can I Register it HERE (http://www.apexdigitalinc.com/registration/Registration.asp?pid=02&c=Converter%20Box)?
(Note there IS a DT250A also...)

I'm not disagreeing that there is a DT250 and DT250A, but even the APEX website doesn't list a DT502A in their product lineup. http://www.apexdigitalinc.com/proddisp.asp?category=DTV%20Converter%20Box&c=2
I've never seen or heard of a DT502A in the wild.

I have seen an internal pic somewhere of the two beside each other, the tuners were different from 502 to 502A.

What you saw was probably the differences between the DT250/DT250A and the DT502. The units have different tuners and firmware. Externally, they look identical (except for a few run differences with ventilation slots and the RF ports are reversed between the 250's and the 502's.

I'm not quiet sure why we are all talking about this [Apex] in this thread...

My fault, sorry. I ran out of time to get free Artecs via Meritline with my coupons (7 day expiry rqt) and mentioned my other options. I took advantage of system2000's Apex expertise and got carried away. I should have moved the discussion over yonder thread but was afraid I would lose the 'connection.' :eek:

Here's the additional features list I was referring too before:

http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Additional_Features_Matrix.html

I'm not disagreeing that there is a DT250 and DT250A, but even the APEX website doesn't list a DT502A in their product lineup.</p>
<p>What you saw was probably the differences between the DT250/DT250A and the DT502.

i meant for people to look at the "Model Number" pull-down menu and see they DO make one,
and you CAN certainly register the product there...

That Apex hasn't gotten around to putting up the product page doesn't really surprise anyone,
does it?
I mean we are talking Apex.....

The pictures clearly indicated 502 and 502A.

I'll search for that old link and post it here to close this curiosity,
and in the actual Apex thread for these boxes.

I hope I can still find it, it was when I bought the Artec and posted an internals breakdown HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17032402#post17032402) a little over two months ago...



Meantime, I have written Ngai Lik asking for 502/502A clarification.

It seems to be made by Ngai Lik,
assembled by Din Wai,
marketed by Denca,
and sold as Apex...

I'll update this post when my email gets replied to.

I ordered 2 T3AP-LL boxes10/28/09 from Meritline and the package arrived today 11/10/09 with 2 old model T3A Pro boxes.

The date code on the boxes are W0830 just like Floydage has.

I am very disappointed with Meritline.

Floydage now that you have had your old Pro box a while how does the picture quality compare to your other Artec box.

I have written Ngai Lik asking for 502/502A clarification.

It seems to be made by Ngai Lik,
assembled by Din Wai,
marketed by Denca,
and sold as Apex...

I'll update this post when my email gets replied to.

RE: Units sold under the APEX (or any other) brand name.

Good Detective work there and I wish you all the luck in the world, but as you probably know:

The official position of most companies is they can not disclose who they are making items for.
(Others don't want to be bothered by the end user, unless there is a chance of big, re-occurring orders.)

Most I would venture are under contract to not disclose this info. Companies having stuff branded with their Logo (EG: Apex) for sure don't want you to be able to bypass them and directly interact with the factory as they are fearful of being cut-out of the loop so to speak.

Then again there are companies out there that are looking to expand into the retail world. Manufacturing and distributing DIRECTLY to the retail chain.



.

That's odd. I would send them an email and attach your "MERITLINE.COM Receipt" as proof to get to the bottom of it. I did something similar on a warranty return - I asked a couple of questions but didn't get direct answers yet they sent me some template/auto-generated RMA stuff to return it as well as a FedX email to return it on their dime. I was worried they might just refund my $1.99 (the remote is worth that!) but a new unit arrived today, rather quickly processed too. I'm pleased.

I used return@meritline.com. In your case I would press for a specific answer before shipping them back and possibly getting the same models back again. If they're out of LLs you might ask what others you can sub for. I believe the LS has APT if that matters. Maybe push for the TV Guide model ;).

I never tried the Pro on my big TV, just a 19" and it only has an RF input (no composite). Looked the same as the LL on the 19" though. Theoretically it should be the same as they have the same brain (LG MPEG Decoder/SoC).

Thanks I will send Meritline a email and see if they reply.

Meritline doesn't list the Artecs or any other converter boxes on their Web site any more. Maybe that has something to do with it.

I just looked again, Meritline now shows the LS, TVG, and a Sunkey. Won't budge on that lofty TVG price.

Huh, you're right. Maybe they were updating the page to get rid of references to the coupons. (I don't remember what the page looked like before.)

I see Amazon's price for the LS is still at $50.99. They are also listing a T3AP (without any designation) for $39.98.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/979935011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_4_last

Huh, you're right. Maybe they were updating the page to get rid of references to the coupons. (I don't remember what the page looked like before.)

They also had a 7 day coupon expiry lead-time requirement, which was about the time they first disappeared.

I see Amazon's price for the LS is still at $50.99. They are also listing a T3AP (without any designation) for $39.98.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/979935011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_4_last

Interesting search method which shows more boxes and retailers than I recall, I'll have to remember that one. Note those Artecs are from other retailers. I've typically searched for "dtv converters" and it appears Amazon sells the ones that say "Eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping," usually the first ones shown.

A local TV station went off the air (fire) for five hours taking two channels with it. Not knowing the cause I performed an update scan (Channel Add) on my T3A Pro to no avail (they went off the air right when I flicked a light switch in the room - LOL).

The next day after I found out what caused the problem, I checked this box again but still no signals on those channels. I was able to fix the problem by loading the Factory Default and starting over with the Initial Setup.

Anyone notice the mysterious Channel Input sub-menu? The manual states "2. Use the ^ v buttons to select input according to your personal requirement." Yet there are no selections other than DTV.

Maybe a tuner option? (ex:QAM)

Ever since yesterday my box has been shutting itself off by itself. I have the auto-power down feature turned off and yet it still shuts down on me.

Have you seen what it does when it happens?
It shuts off, rather than freezing?

I would check for remote conflict issues first.
And you could try rebooting from default.

Mine continues to run, with the odd freezeup.
I haven't shut it down since I got it.

Check to see how hot it's running too.

Anyone notice the mysterious Channel Input sub-menu? The manual states "2. Use the ^ v buttons to select input according to your personal requirement." Yet there are no selections other than DTV.

Maybe a tuner option? (ex:QAM)
I'm not sure which menu you're referring to.
There are differences between the manual and the box as finished.

I'm not sure which menu you're referring to.
There are differences between the manual and the box as finished.

First sub-menu in the Channel menu: Channel>Channel Input

Page 9 of my LL manual: Advanced Operation/Menu Function Guide/CHANNEL/Channel Input

Ever since yesterday my box has been shutting itself off by itself. I have the auto-power down feature turned off and yet it still shuts down on me.

Like THX said and need more info.

How long until it shuts down after you power it up? (consistent?)

If you set the auto-power down feature to 4 hours, does it still do it?

The Digital Stream DTX9900's manual on page 6 shows that you can select an input of cable or air. However, if you navigate to that menu on the box, the option for cable is not there either.

http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Digital_STREAM_DTX9900_Manual.html

Sounds like the cable hooks are in on the menus of some boxes. Of course that's easier to do with software than hardware. Maybe they were looking ahead to less stringent markets, maybe Canada?

[I'm working from memory as I made these measurements some time ago but they're in the ballpark]

The two switching regulator ICs that I previously feared were enabled by the input supply line are actually controlled by a logic-level circuit (3.3 V). The enable is a control pin of the IC that is not rated for more than 12 V. FYI, one regulator supplies 3.6 V and the the other supplies 5 V.

The 'always on' regulator appears to be the 4-terminal IC located on the LED side of the PCB above the Nanya IC. It is a 3.3 V linear regulator that typically can handle input voltages up to 15 V. It looks like this regulator supplies power to the remote control IRLED circuit and whatever logic circuit turns on the rest of the circuitry when the power button is pressed.

Disclaimers:

> I don't have a schematic. The input supply line could run to another circuit (doubtful IMO); the lack of vias makes me think it's a mere two layer PCB, therefore there's not too many places for the line to route.
> The linear regulator has no mfger or part number markings so I'm relying on generic info and IC packaging for this type of part. Also, I don't know how much current it supplies to determine a thermal limit. This will be the part that gets hotter with higher supply voltage, none of the other parts should change temp with supply voltage.
> My measurements were made on an Artec T3A Pro, therefore I don't know if the other Artec models use the same power supply architecture (I suspect they do though).

Since thermal limit is another unknown for the entire circuit, I would suggest keeping the unit below 50 degrees C (122 degrees F), a typical limit for consumer electronics (automotive electronics are rated much higher). I keep mine in one of those foldable drink coolers while in the auto.

The EPG looks like a Now/Next version but I was fiddling around with it and when I pressed the CH down v button it scrolled through extended program info (scrolls back up with CH up ^ button). I guess I should have been clued off by their mysterious 1/x notation in the Next box, strange way to do it (and the manual states that "EPG may provide more than current program" - may?). I haven't played with it much since discovering this but I did get one channel to load up 24 hours of info (my CM is limited to about 12 hours). It still has the weird inconsistency I described before with the LL where the amount of info changes almost every time I check the EPG (ex: the 24 hr one also displayed 12 hr, 4 hr, and 3 hr on different tries).

I have found any "weird inconsistency" to usually be the broadcast stations incompetency since I started the DTV experience 3 years ago. Your EPG info is coming, or not, or sometimes, or maybe, from each individual station in the PSIP. Then comes reception and last your equipment. Just my experience.

I have found any "weird inconsistency" to usually be the broadcast stations incompetency since I started the DTV experience 3 years ago. Your EPG info is coming, or not, or sometimes, or maybe, from each individual station in the PSIP. Then comes reception and last your equipment. Just my experience.

Not in the case with these Artecs I'm describing. The PSIP data doesn't change by the second or the minute (per my testing scenario). Also, my CM doesn't do this. My reception is excellent and all these boxes tie to the same antenna (the Artecs actually have one less two-way split so 3 dB more signal strength).

..........Disclaimers: > I don't have a schematic. The input supply line could run to another circuit (doubtful IMO); the lack of vias makes me think it's a mere two layer PCB, therefore there's not too many places for the line to route.......

just curious.....whats a 'vias'?

just curious.....whats a 'vias'?

The little plated-through holes on some boards that give them that swiss cheese look. Sort of resemble rivets. They connect circuit traces from one layer to another.

I know this is old but I just found a GE remote that works the Artec and the Magnavox DTV boxes that were elgible for the coupons. Model GE 24944, sells for about 5 dollars.

Thanks for posting that.

Are they available any particular place?

I suspect a lot of the u-remotes support these boxes now. In fact they may have the past few years; I bought a cheap Philips two years ago at CVS and the outer packaging didn't mention anything about converter boxes but the code list inside has a section for them in use with the cable button (although one can probably program to other buttons as well). But the newer model advertises it on the packaging.

Sorry about not replying sooner, got sidetracked :(. This particular remote came from walmart, $4.94 plus tax. It uses a 4 digit code insted of three, was a breeze to program. I had put my Artec box aside when the remote quit and was using the Magnavox box. Wife picked the remote up at Walmart, I didn't have any hope that it would work since it was so cheap. Got to playing with it after a few days, had the Magnavox box going and within a few minutes, had the remote working the Toshiba tv and the box. I dug out the Artec, plugged it up and set the code, works great. I used the cbl/sat button for the box, the tv button for the tv and the dvd button for the dvd player. Guess I better get me a spare remote just to be on the safe side.

The remote is small so that is a plus in my opinion. I hate to put on a back brace just to pick up a remote to change channels.

Someone wrote a review on the remote, here is the link.

http://www.viewpoints.com/GE-GE-Universal-Remote-24944-review-3f6d7

The only thing I disagree with on the user review, they state using three batteries, only uses two.

If you want to lighten remotes, use lithium batteries.

I hear you THX-1138, I wasn't talking so much about the weight of most remotes but mostly about the size of some of them. Some are so bulky, you have to hold them in one hand and push the buttons with the other one.