OK, started looking at whole house surge protection is addition to point of use protection.

I would prefer an internal rather than an external panel protector. My panel is GE and I see they do an internal TVSS (THQLSurge).

Anyone have experience with one of these? Or am I better off with a external model like Sycom's SYC-120/240 TC.

Also as I'm using Verizon FiOS is it a safe assumption that as its fiber to the main box and that includes surge protection I don't really need really need to worry about addition protection on the Phone/TV? If should add further protection what are good whole house protectors to add to those.

Cheers,
Mark

I don't know what would make your GE panel different than a Cuttler Hammer or a SquareD. I have a SquareD panel and I wired in my own whole house surge protector. I bought the corresponding SquareD model which hangs off the main panel like an auxilliary box. Adding a whole house surge protector to your service panel isn't that big a deal if you're comfortable working around electricity. The main thing is to make sure your panel has a main cut off switch. How many whole house surge protectors work is that it taps into both phases/buses in your panel. It then has a connection to your ground to shunt the excess power.

How mine is wired in is via a double pole breaker which taps into both phases/buses. Other types of whole house surge protectors look like double pole breakers that just snap in with a ground wire you attach to the ground bus bar. Mine is a bit different as it has separate modules to protect incoming PSTN (phone) and satellite/cable connections. I can take pics of my setup if you wish.

As far as your FIOS connection, there isn't any surge protection necessary for the incoming fiber. It's up to you if you want to put a spot surge protector at the UPS unit supplied for your Verizon gear. The UPS provided by Verizon should have built in surge protection. But if that UPS takes a hit, you're out your internet, phone, and TV.

Main reason I want internal (i.e. within panel) is that the electrical panel is in a finished space (my HT) so putting one of the external TVSS's will be a PITA.......poor planning on my part :o

Check with your electric utility. Many utilities provide a whole house TVSS module that goes in at the meter, and is owned by the utility. They charge a monthly fee for its use, but it protects the entire house (from the AC power side, of course.) Seems to me that Georgia Power charges something like $4.95 a month. DC sources, like cable, phone and satellite have their own unique challenges, and have the potential (no pun intended) of damaging surges or spikes. However, if installed properly, they usually won't cause problems unless a direct strike occurs. In that case, it's usually their equipment that gets fried.

My advice? Use protection at point of use. Buy a surge surpressor for each component, or use something like a Monster Power center or one of the Belkin units. These thing can have DC side protection as well for TV and/or phone/i-net. Price is not always an indicator of performance, so spending a lot isn't necessarily going to get you more protection.

By the way, MOA's (metal oxide varistors- the gidgets that actually do the protecting) do wear out, so replace your TVSS 's every year or so, or after you suspect a lightning strike.

Why listen to me? I was a product manager for the largest power quality product provider in the early 90's. We did mega-watt systems. One was UPS's computer Center in Atlanta. (The package people).

rtart - good call. Just checked my power companies site

Appliance Protection Service
Dominion Virginia Power's comprehensive service offers complete protection for all of your appliances, heating and cooling equipment and other motor driven equipment. For a one-time installation fee of $89.00 and a monthly service charge of just $4.95 you get:

- Home grounding system review and enhancement (1 in 5 homes we check are improperly grounded). This feature ensures maximum surge protector performance and protection.
- Meter-mounted surge protector (reduces surges to manageable levels that your appliances can handle).
- Comprehensive warranty for repair or replacement of any damaged appliance and replacement of any damaged meter surge device.

In addition I use point of use protectors on the more expensive items.

Looks like got my answer.

Cheers,
Mark

That is a good find. Buying and having installed a whole house unit can run hundreds of dollars (think I was quoted $500 to have one installed) having the power company do it may be a better route. It also removes the expense from my budget and moves it to a "normal household" expense. That means for money for other toys...

One Q.......on my panel the main breaker handle has 200 on it and 22KA on the breaker body.

Does that mean its a 200A service?

Cheers,
Mark

I'm hardly the expert, but I would assume you have 200A service just because it's the standard for newer homes our size in this area. You'll find 100A service in the older smaller 50's homes (think brick rambler) around here.

One Q.......on my panel the main breaker handle has 200 on it and 22KA on the breaker body.

Does that mean its a 200A service?

Cheers,
Mark

Yep.

Mark notice that the wording of that offer doesn't mention electronics. They have other programs that cover electronics

One Q.......on my panel the main breaker handle has 200 on it and 22KA on the breaker body.

Does that mean its a 200A service?


Yes. The 200A is the continuous rating of your electrical service. That is how much current you can draw before the main circuit trips.

The 22 kA is a fault interrupting capability. That is how much fault current the breaker can interrupt without arcing over the contacts and rendering the breaker useless. (Incidentally, most single family homes can use 10 kA, so a 22 kA is typically more than sufficient.)

Mark notice that the wording of that offer doesn't mention electronics. They have other programs that cover electronics

Yeah, they offer point of use surge protectors and electronic's insurance as well.

Already got POU on important items - but hoping the whole house will help with other items including my Insteon switches.

Just a thought but would a panel TVSS be better for surges generated within the home, i.e. when after power cut everything comes back on line in the house?

Just a thought but would a panel TVSS be better for surges generated within the home, i.e. when after power cut everything comes back on line in the house?

Nope. The potentially damaging spikes and surges are most likely caused by events external to your home. (Like lightning.) The power supply inside most electronics is stout enough to handle most any event caused by a renew-power surge or event on the subscriber side of the meter. Most electronics devices will be happy with 85v to 230v. (Monster, et al don't want you to know this, however. Kinda makes marketing expensive magic boxes difficult.) The chances of having a substantial voltage surge from something inside your home is pretty small. Here's why: a surge occurs when a large user of power suddenly stops drawing so much current. The "rush" of electricity supposedly "overruns" (overvoltages) the circuit because the electricity can't stop fast enough. Sounds plausible in theory, but the powered device PULLS current from the utility, so there's no "river" of electricity to "rush" in.

The largest user of electricity inside your home is the A/C compressor. When it starts up, it can create a 5 to 6 cycle (0.08 seconds) voltage drop of 2 to 3 volts. If your are looking carefully, you might notice the lights flicker. When it shuts off, it may cause a rise in line voltage of 0.1 to 0.5 volts for a couple cycles (0.02 seconds.)

In summary, nothing on the subscriber side of the meter is going to cause much of a disturbance. Certainly not anything that the average electronic device is going to care about. So the utility TVSS option is the best bet, if you choose to have one.

In any case, needing a TVSS is about as likely as being struck by lightning! (Pun intended.) :)

rtart - thanks

Main reason of concern is after a recent brownout an Insteon dimmer started to malfunction. As I'm planning on slowly adding more Insteon switches want to protect my inmvestment.

Cheers,
Mark

Whole house surge suppression can be useful, but it almost never covers the signal lines where most of the damage usually enters your system. I recommend that before you install WH protection, you get a good system level unit that covers all signal lines AND you verify the grounding on your system meets code and is intact. Then if you want to add whole house suppression, do so. If you are concerned about what happens in an outage, where low voltage can be a problem, as well as transients in the system from grid switching, you can get system level units like the ones from Panamax with over/under voltage protection for about $100. A system to cut off power for the whole house like that would be cost prohibitive, and would require a commercial grade product. Either is probably overkill and units commonly available with good basic protection that includes the signal lines can be found for less than half that.

Icaillo - My power utilities service includes home grounding system review and enhancement.

As my TV, Internet and Phone is over fiber to the home only a lightning strick is supposed to be able to get thru - at which time all bets are off anyway.

The notion that there is no protection for lightning strikes is faulty. All lightning strikes are relative. A direct hit to a particular device is certainly likely to overwhelm most protection, but nearby strikes are much more common. I have seen many systems well protected by relatively inexpensive surge protectors while other devices in homes with nearby strikes were severely damaged. Any exptra protection is useful, IME, which includes nearly 3 decades of repairing products involved in lightning strikes.

I'm not a fan of breaker replacement TVSS's. Perhaps it is not justified, but they seem a little puny to me. There are surplus (new/sealed) industrial units that can be had for not excessive costs, and that is the route I went. The breaker versions have the advantage of ease of install and relatively low cost. Utility installed units are easy, but the costs do add up over time, and I hate recurring payments on anything. A proper earth grounded electrical system is the number one step towards surge suppression - without that, any TVSS is pointless.

My whole house TVSS (AC Data Systems Surge Blox based unit):
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z247/myzoos/whole_house_surge.jpg