I am setting up a basement home theater and will want 2 in-wall speakers for the rear channels and 2 bookshelf for the front channels. What price range should I be looking in when price is very important but I still want something of decent value, and why does it seem like everyone spends a crap-load of money on speakers?

(I should note that I bought 2 crappy $25 speakers to use temporarily with my receiver when I bought it on a Christmas sale, and I've been unhappy with difficulty in hearing dialog, with what seems like too much bass. Will good speakers clear this up or is that something different?)

why does it seem like everyone spends a crap-load of money on speakers?


You should ask this question in the speaker forum, you will get lots of answers.

What is your budget? and what do you think is a "Crap-load of money"?

I have heard and owned many products like Paradigm, PSB, Klipsch, Axiom, AV123, B&W, Martin Logan, Triad and so on and so on. Pricing ranging from $2500 per speaker down too $100 per speaker.

One thing I do know is that $$$ does not predict performance. All speaker listening should be void of any price knowledge. I dont even bother to ask prices if Im listening to something since its well known that placebo effect is alive and well in the Audio world.

My 5 speakers in my family room cost $1800, my 5 in my HT room so far will cost $1000 (I will probably upgrade if I can ever find PSB in-cabinets for under 3K a pair!!!). My subs are all DIY and they still cost more then my other speakers.

What you have now is probably crap, you will learn over time that there are great speakers out there NOT BOSE either!! And once you get the audio upgrading bug you are screwed for life ;)

I try not to suggest speakers.... They are very personally subjective.

I can say, I have been having the best luck with suggesting JBL on wall speakers. Even for the fronts when needed.

I think it's L880 that has the 6" woofs. Onwalls are killer easy to install, especially in already completed rooms. In testing these can take on some pretty high end speakers respectively.

Better speakers will help - but - the things you describe are also prime symptoms of a room with inadequate bass treatment, subwoofer in a corner, and/or seating close to a wall.

In other words, get the setup and room right first, then decide on what you need knowing that you're going to get the most out of whatever you use.

Bryan

To add to Bryan's comment ... no speaker is good enough to violate the laws of physics.

Thanks, these are good comments.

penngray - to me, $500+ a speaker is a "crap load", $200/speaker is more reasonable, though for me highest value-for-price is always the key thing I look for. (IE, if the price doubles for a 10-20% improvement, it's not worth it to me)

Bryan and Dennis -- I have been reading this forum for months, but still don't have a good idea of the things that matter most for audio quality in a construction. I have limited ability in this area, considering I want to retain use of the theater for a bedroom if needed in the future (so no sand-filled stage, no columns, etc.) What are the best basic things I can do? (and if I was going to put my subwoofer in the front corner, should I reconsider?)

You ask why spend so much on speakers and of course unless you have the appropriate room treatments any speakers you put in the theater will sound like crap. But once that issue is addressed, then my question would be why Not? if you can swing it. I wanted the best sound I could afford Which in my case meant REVEL speakers, still upgrading them as I go in fact. THough now my theater is going into dry dock for some LONG time since we have to Move to CA.
But back to the point, I love not only watching movies with the best sound I can muster but also I love to sit in my theater in the dark and listen to Music, either 2 channel or surround.
Many people are happy with a TV and any speakers that produce sound. others want a bit more and still others want the best they can manage, Best sounding to THEM.
All depends on where your priorities for a theater lay.

Atleast design your HT room so that you can change/upgrade speakers at any point. This way down the road you can try different speakers.

I think another thing to consider why some here "spend a crap load of money on speakers" is that unlike the general public at large we realize or appreciate how much of a part the audio plays in the "true theater experience". I really enjoy a big bright image however it is the audio (for me) that really completes the theater experience. The two are co-dependent but sound plays a greater role than a lot of people realize.

It is just here at AVS we tend to be a little better informed/self educated in this HT thing and slightly crazy too so many spend so much on speakers to complete the HT experience.

Just my .02

Regards,

RTROSE

I always thought of it in simpler terms...the speakers are what you actually hear. No matter how good the source, or the amp, the speakers actually reproduce the sound. THAT is what you hear. I'm not saying all those other things aren't important, but when you come right down to it, the speakers have to be able to accurately reproduce the sound. That's why it is so subjective. Some people (I would say MOST) have some sort of hearing problem. I don't think ANYONE can hear perfectly. Some speakers are tilted to the highs or the lows, and different people think it sounds better one way or the other. I have some old bookshelves that can be switched to favor one over the other.

You have to go and listen and pick the ones that sound right to you.

I really enjoy a big bright image however it is the audio (for me) that really completes the theater experience. The two are co-dependent but sound plays a greater role than a lot of people realize.


its the bass for me :D Twin 15" 11cf subs, ported and built into my wall, 2000Watt amp :D, total cost around $1000.

its the bass for me :D Twin 15" 11cf subs, ported and built into my wall, 2000Watt amp :D, total cost around $1000.

$1000 to me actually sounds reasonable for subs and amps. I'm just having a hard time understanding what the concrete difference is between $100 speakers and $300 or $500 speakers is (at normal volume levels) and then again between those and speakers in prices above the $1000 level.

Also, McCall asked "Why not?"

For me the answer is, and I assume it is the same for most people -- the LESS I spend on speakers, the more I might be able to put somewhere else, like a patio in the backyard, etc. I am perfectly willing to put down the money for a *good* sounding theater, I just don't know how to gauge what that is!

look at online direct speakers... as they will be your best option of high quality with out the price (unless they deserve that price).

IE the Ascend Accoustic 340SE bookshelfs are 600 a pair, but if you were to go into a highend stores, the same level of quality would be around 1200. Speakers in general are marked up around 100% (i think thats right? 500 cost = 1000 to the customer).

Look into the ascend 170SE systems (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170hts.html)

or something like the ********** xl-s series (http://**********/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=172&category_id=21&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37). do 2 pairs of those bookshelves and then the center that matches.

$1000 to me actually sounds reasonable for subs and amps. I'm just having a hard time understanding what the concrete difference is between $100 speakers and $300 or $500 speakers is (at normal volume levels) and then again between those and speakers in prices above the $1000 level.

Also, McCall asked "Why not?"

For me the answer is, and I assume it is the same for most people -- the LESS I spend on speakers, the more I might be able to put somewhere else, like a patio in the backyard, etc. I am perfectly willing to put down the money for a *good* sounding theater, I just don't know how to gauge what that is!


That is why speaker selection is so SUBJECTIVE because we all hear "different" things. To me the difference between a 500 dollar/pair speaker vs. 1000 dollar/pair might be "night and day" where you do not hear much of anything different therefore the extra 500 dollars is not worthwhile for you to spend.

I have looked at/considered (not listened to) SVS, Ascend, and now I am leaning towards Aperion. If my budget allows I will go Aperion, if I have to reign in my budget I will go the Ascend 340 SE/170 SE route. All three of the companies I mentioned are ID and I think offer an "In home" trial period so that you may listen to them in your environment. The store (even high end ones) is not the ideal place to audition speakers and I would guess few high end retailers would be willing to let you take several of their speakers home for a "test drive" although I may be wrong. I know that Aperion will even pay for shipping both ways if you decide to return the speakers if they are not "your thing".

I have definitely "settled" on my sub though and that is an SVS PB-12/Plus 2 :D

Regards,

RTROSE

This is really good help. I realize it's all subjective so I appreciate you guys even attempting to make recommendations.

I think given the layout of my room I will be going with bookshelves for left and right, but I will probably go with in-walls for the rear (unless someone highly recommends against this) and either in-wall or bookshelf for the center (it will be in the soffit above the screen).

Ideally I'd like to spend no more than $500-$700 on the whole set, but I hesitate even saying that out of fear that it is way too little and have everyone ask why I am even bothering with a home theater :)

This is really good help. I realize it's all subjective so I appreciate you guys even attempting to make recommendations.

I think given the layout of my room I will be going with bookshelves for left and right, but I will probably go with in-walls for the rear (unless someone highly recommends against this) and either in-wall or bookshelf for the center (it will be in the soffit above the screen).

Ideally I'd like to spend no more than $500-$700 on the whole set, but I hesitate even saying that out of fear that it is way too little and have everyone ask why I am even bothering with a home theater :)

As long as your setup meets your needs/expatiations that is all that is necessary it is your opinion and happiness that ultimately needs to be met. (Sounds like a fortune cookie I know) but I do have one recommendation. Your L/C/R speakers need to be the same or timbre matched so the transition across the screen for action and dialog is seamless. If you are wanting a 5.1 surround set for around 700 here is a starting point. I have not heard them but they come highly recommended "bang for your buck".

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm

The 999 price is above what you want to spend however it does include the sub if you want to spend less 599

http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm

for just the speakers w/o the sub.

There are other options out there (far too many to list) but half the fun is the search right?

Regards,

RTROSE

$1000 to me actually sounds reasonable for subs and amps. I'm just having a hard time understanding what the concrete difference is between $100 speakers and $300 or $500 speakers is (at normal volume levels) and then again between those and speakers in prices above the $1000 level.

Also, McCall asked "Why not?"

For me the answer is, and I assume it is the same for most people -- the LESS I spend on speakers, the more I might be able to put somewhere else, like a patio in the backyard, etc. I am perfectly willing to put down the money for a *good* sounding theater, I just don't know how to gauge what that is!

Have you done a real world listening comparison between the $300-500 speakers and some 2000 to 3000 speakers? I have about 8 to 10K of speakers in my theater at the moment I used to have about 3K worth with several KEFS believe me there is a difference. Now whether that difference is enough to give up a new patio or pool or what ever it is that someone else might want only each individual can say.
Your original question is based on this what is important to each individual. For some of us the sound and or picture quality is why we are doing it in the first place.
You say you want a good sounding theater but you don't know how to gauge what that is, well, what that is, is what sounds GOOD Enough to YOU. Good enough that you would feel bad spending more on that aspect then you have.

You might want to build a really fancy barbeque for that patio you would like to build, I could say hey you can have a decent barbeque already that will cook your food just fine, why spend more? to which if it was important to you you might well say Why not.

There is definitely a very large difference between speakers that cost $300 vs. $2000 as long as the manufacturer knows what they are doing and uses quality components.

The difference between $2000 and $10000 speakers is much smaller, however.

The curve of speaker quality and price is not linear, but it is definitely much steeper at the lower prices.

This is really good help. I realize it's all subjective so I appreciate you guys even attempting to make recommendations.

I think given the layout of my room I will be going with bookshelves for left and right, but I will probably go with in-walls for the rear (unless someone highly recommends against this) and either in-wall or bookshelf for the center (it will be in the soffit above the screen).

Ideally I'd like to spend no more than $500-$700 on the whole set, but I hesitate even saying that out of fear that it is way too little and have everyone ask why I am even bothering with a home theater :)
Many good comments and suggestions.

As an AV enthusiast, speakers are extremely important part of my HT system.
I've spent $2500 on Paradigm 5.1 system about 9 years ago and they still sound
great and I have no regrets on that investment.

I think amount and quality of speakers you invest depends on two major criteria.

1. Rest of your system: If you spent $2000 + for TV,$1000 + for receiver/DVD/Blu-ray
player etc.. it would be ideal to spend at least $ 1000 + to compliment your system.
You can spend over $5000 in electronics, but if you have crappy speakers, to me
that ruins everything!

2. Budget and Your taste/ears: For most of us, we have budget to spend on most things
including speakers and electronics purchase. Also, some people can really differenciate and appreciate great speakers from not so great ones. As mentioned by others, more money doesn't always equal better sound. It is possible to spend $1500 for 5.1 system and have decent sound for small to medium sized room.

Bottom Line: Buy a system that matches well with the rest of your HT system within
your budget. If your budget is $1000, listen to few systems in that range.
If you buy 5.1 system, subwoofer is easier to upgrade than others. Make
sure front L/C/R speakrs are same brand and well matched. In-wall
speakers are generally more expensive and difficult to get the right sound.
Installation is more difficult as well.

good luck.

Build your own. You'll get 3K or better performace for $300 - $500. Check out
swithey build thread. I had a set of surrounds designed to match my B&W L/C/R and they sound amazing.

Just like it was metioned before. Speakers are a subjective subject and everyone that pays 3k for theirs are going to tell you they sound great. My B&W's do :D

Any how go over to the Mission Accomplished (http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39)area at HTGuide Forum. Lots of info on GREAT sounding speakers for little money. The catch YOU build them.

For me the answer is, and I assume it is the same for most people -- the LESS I spend on speakers, the more I might be able to put somewhere else, like a patio in the backyard, etc. I am perfectly willing to put down the money for a *good* sounding theater, I just don't know how to gauge what that is!

Also consider used speakers. I bought a 5.1 Klipsch set with subwoofer for $375 on craigslist. I used them in my tv room for several months and they sounded great. I now use them for my outdoor theater and bought Axiom M22 for lcr and QS8 for rear and side surrounds in my under-construction HT.