I am setting up a HT system in our den and am wanting some suggestions on subs to purchase. The room is 18' X 24' X 12'. I estimate the volume to be ~4320 cuft. The room is not a self contained room but opens up to the kitchen, hallway and foyer. Currently, I'll be using a set of Athena AS-F2s for the L & R and a AS-C1 for the center but I plan on upgrading soon to something along the lines of Vandersteen 2ce signatures or similar. My big question right now is, should I go with 1 $$$$ sub or 2 $$ subs? I'd like to stay at $1500 or less. I've been looking at and reading about Paradigm, HSU, Velodyne and SVS online. We don't have but maybe 1 store in Memphis that I can listen to decent subs at so I'll probably be buying whatever I get without getting to hear it. I'll probably use them 50/50 for music/movies although accurate musical reproduction is higher on my list. I do want them to seriously thump when needed for movies though too! Thanks guys, I've learned a lot from lurking and reading here over the last 3-4 years!

Mike

DUAL MFW-15 Subwoofers? That's a lot of space to fill.....

I have a dual sub setup in my 10x7x7.5 room. 2 weak ass dayton sub 100's.

Yes I am drinking again..

When taxes come in I may be picking up one or two mfw's.. I have already raped one of my sub100's. It's a sad sad situation.,

I've got a similar situation. I just bought a large Acoustech package, I'm happy as hell with all the towers I got, just the bass from the sub is somewhat lacking because of the size of my room: 24'x26'x14' vaulted and is very open to the kitchen. I got the H100 which isnt giving me enough umph for the room size. I was also leaning toward getting A MFW-15 with the stimulus check :). I'm not sure whether to get 1 MFW-15 and run the H100 as a dual setup or just get 2 MFW-15's and sell the H100.

I had not considered AV123. No reason, just didn't think about them. $998 for 2 looks to be an excellent deal. Thanks guys. Anyone else have any suggestions?

I pulled the trigger on a single Velodyne DLS-5000R. For what I'm doing I think it will work fine. If it doesn't I'll order another one. It just made sense fiscally and otherwise, to start out with 1 and go from there. I'm not a super bass freak anyway so as long as it sounds real to me I'll be happy.

I pulled the trigger on a single Velodyne DLS-5000R. For what I'm doing I think it will work fine. If it doesn't I'll order another one. It just made sense fiscally and otherwise, to start out with 1 and go from there. I'm not a super bass freak anyway so as long as it sounds real to me I'll be happy.
You need at least two subs to even out the bass response for all listening positions, no matter what sub you are using.
In a 3200~6400cuft room I use 4. Two of those are at the mid-points of the two side walls
The difference in the volume I list is if the sliding doors to the DR/Kichen are shut or open.

I prefer 2 subs at opposite ends of the room, then again my subwoofers arent super high quality like the ones you guys have, just a simple 10" velodyne front firing sub to the right of the tv, and a 10" pheonix gold downfiring to the back left of the room beside the couch. Man it hits hard :D

I pulled the trigger on a single Velodyne DLS-5000R. For what I'm doing I think it will work fine. If it doesn't I'll order another one. It just made sense fiscally and otherwise, to start out with 1 and go from there. I'm not a super bass freak anyway so as long as it sounds real to me I'll be happy.

You do understand that the Velo is gonna be a lot worse than dual MFW-15s right?

I prefer 2 subs at opposite ends of the room, then again my subwoofers arent super high quality like the ones you guys have, just a simple 10" velodyne front firing sub to the right of the tv, and a 10" pheonix gold downfiring to the back left of the room beside the couch. Man it hits hard :D
Whether a sub is high quality has more to do with its fidelity than how powerful it is. I just sold a down firing sub, as it was too boomy, especially compared to my JBL/Revel SUB1500s, which are very musical.
As I said in the other post, it takes at least two subs to properly cover the entire room. With only one sub, some seats will have very good bass sound, while others will be in a void and the bass maybe down 3~6 db from the best location.
I also think that using multiple subs are best if used in identical pairs, if not all the same. Setting one pair of identical subs @ the two side wall mid-points, for instants. And another identical pair at the front/back mid-points, or as I have them set, at the main L/R with the 3-way mains mounted on top of the subs.

You do understand that the Velo is gonna be a lot worse than dual MFW-15s right?

Explain why please. I almost opted for the 2fer deal on the MFWs then thought about the WAF and decided that marital harmony was more important that the footprint of 2 subs taking up room in the family den. If this was a dedicated theater room I'd be more likely to go for 2 (or 4) subs but I just couldn't justify it in this situation. If I discover that the 'quality' of the bass isn't what I thought it would be I'll sell it and try something else.

Whether a sub is high quality has more to do with its fidelity than how powerful it is. I just sold a down firing sub, as it was too boomy, especially compared to my JBL/Revel SUB1500s, which are very musical.


Its a car audio subwoofer, so its pretty good quality (to my standards), and yes it seems down-firing subs are boomy, but I kind of like it that way. :eek:

Explain why please. I almost opted for the 2fer deal on the MFWs then thought about the WAF and decided that marital harmony was more important that the footprint of 2 subs taking up room in the family den. If this was a dedicated theater room I'd be more likely to go for 2 (or 4) subs but I just couldn't justify it in this situation. If I discover that the 'quality' of the bass isn't what I thought it would be I'll sell it and try something else.

According to craigsub's list, a single MFW-15 beated a Velo DD18 (same music score, 15% better HT score). I know it is only one person's opinion, but even if the DD18 is better than the MFW-15, a single MFW-15 will still beat the DLS-5000R since it is quite a bit worse than the DD18. A MFW-15 delivers more bass than a DD18, while sounding as good or almost as good. How do you think the DLS-5000R fares up with a DD18? Not very well right? Dual MFW-15 will be even better more HT since you have a large room. A single MFW-15 beats a DLS-5000R in every possible way except wait time, and duals will be even better.

According to craigsub's list, a single MFW-15 beated a Velo DD18 (same music score, 15% better HT score). I know it is only one person's opinion, but even if the DD18 is better than the MFW-15, a single MFW-15 will still beat the DLS-5000R since it is quite a bit worse than the DD18. A MFW-15 delivers more bass than a DD18, while sounding as good or almost as good. How do you think the DLS-5000R fares up with a DD18? Not very well right? Dual MFW-15 will be even better more HT since you have a large room. A single MFW-15 beats a DLS-5000R in every possible way by a mile except wait time, and duals will be even better.
And know all of this how? From reading Craigsub's ranking list? Have you heard any of these subs yourself?

Craig

I knew someone will say something like that. Some things are obvious enough to speculate. And I've never heard of any of the subs except the Velo DLS-5000R, and it didn't wow me. I'm only giving my opinion, you don't have to take it.

Explain why please. I almost opted for the 2fer deal on the MFWs then thought about the WAF and decided that marital harmony was more important that the footprint of 2 subs taking up room in the family den. If this was a dedicated theater room I'd be more likely to go for 2 (or 4) subs but I just couldn't justify it in this situation. If I discover that the 'quality' of the bass isn't what I thought it would be I'll sell it and try something else.

WAF? You mean your wife is concerned with how much room your subs can take up, but she isn't concerned about the shenanigans you're having with these guys!

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/mailiang/starwars1.gif


Ian :D

I knew someone will say something like that. Some things are obvious enough to speculate. And I've never heard of any of the subs except the Velo DLS-5000R, and it didn't wow me. I'm only giving my opinion, you don't have to take it.

OK, so it's speculation. In the future, it would be best if you would specify that you are speculating, so readers can put your comments in perspective. Otherwise, your posts come across as if you were stating "facts", which clearly you are not. I'm not saying you are "wrong", just that you don't know for a fact that what you are saying is true.

To the OP:
MFW-15:
Slot ported w/ internal fold; single-driver system
15" custom designed woofer
Custom 350 watt
18-200Hz +/-4dB
23.94" x 22.44" x 18.125"
125# Shipped
ETA: July

DLS5000R:
Extended Excursion Slot-Loaded Bass-Reflex
15" forward firing (12.7" piston diameter) with vented pole piece
1000 watts, (2000 watts peak)
Distortion Limiting System + DSP with presets
23-120 Hz +/-3 dB
21" x 18.375" x 20.75"
75# Shipped
ETA: Available Now.

All of this comes from the product websites:
http://**********/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=178&category_id=9&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37
http://www.velodyne.com/products/specs/dls_r.html

These are similarly sized subs and both are slot loaded bass reflex designs. I have no idea how either of them sounds because I have not heard either of them. I would imagine that the MFW-15 uses a more sensitive driver because it is able to make it's full output with a smaller amp, (although this is purely speculation.) The MFW-15 has deeper (specified) extension than the Velo, so you need to decide whether that is important to you. Also, the MFW-15 is heavier than the Velo, so presumably it has a thicker cabinet and more/better bracing. If that's the case, then it should have less cabinet resonance and less cabinet induced distortion, (although this is purely speculation.) Neither website lists maximum output so it's hard to say whether either would have enough output for your room. Also, the Velo is available now and the MFW-15 won't be available until July, (if you order now). All these "facts" should affect your decision.

Your room is fairly large. I suspect that to get "big bass" in your room, you'll need at least 2 subs. If you get 2 and you co-locate them, you can expect about 6 dB of increased output. If you separate them, you can expect about 3 dB of increased output but flatter overall frequency response at more listening positions.

If you bought the Velo for a reasonable price, I would suggest you get the sub, make every attempt to optimize it in your room and see if provides the output and sound quality you are looking for. If not, you'll have to decide whether to get a second Velo, or get a some other sub(s).

Good luck.

Craig

I had the Velo 5000R and it was an OK sub for HT but it was just boomy when it came to music. It didn't seem to be very articulate to me. I now have a SVS PB12-NSD and it has much more power, not in terms of watts, it feels stronger, and hits harder than the Velo, all an improvement in my books. If you feel the Velo isn't up to the task I would recommend you look closely at any of the other subs listed here. I am waiting for a SVS PB13-Ultra to do a nice comparison between the oh-so affordable PB12-NSD and the top o' line PB13. It should be fun.

seems like jakewash's experience goes along well with chengbin's speculation

Thanks for the input guys, all your points are taken. Yes, I compared the specs and I was VERY ready to order the MFW, but I to thinking about the time it was going to take to get it and I've had some experience with Velodyne from when I used to do HT installs and I know the quality they had. Hopefully it's still up there although I did read after ordering that there seemed to be a problem with the first run of the amps in the DLS's. Plus, I got the velo for $200 less than regular price (hope that isn't against the rules) from a certified velodyne dealer. I read a couple of reviews on the Velodyne as well as other remarks on various threads here and up until now had not heard any comments about it sounding "soft". That is certainly one attribute I don't like when it comes to low bass.
Hindsight being what it is, maybe I should have ordered the MFW, I had the money for 2 of the MFWs or even 2 of the Velodyne's but my conscience took hold and my thought process went like, "Well, I'm just putting this system together and I don't feel comfortable buying 2 of these big assed boxes when I don't really KNOW that I'll need or want 2 of them. I can always order another one later if I need to. Plus, I certainly don't want to wait until July (even though that would make it a birthday present) when I can get it now." I've been patient long enough, I want my system NOW dammit!!! Although I'm still waiting for my Onkyo 885...

Even if you can't wait, for $1.5k you could get pb13 ultra with no wait.
Below that you could go with vtf-3.
Velodynes are not really on the radar in this forum and are pretty old model IIRC, so I doubt they sound incredible..I think Ribbit might have those, lets see what he says.

I will bet this won't help at all, but the DLS I had was just a few weeks ago, so I wouldn't think it was a first run product and it was $300 off retail pricing, which is why I thought I would try it. You can always try to return it or resell it if you find it doesn't do the job you want it to. This might help though, I have been waiting 3 weeks for a PB13 Ultra.

For $200 less. I've heard the Velo mentioned. Sounds okay but I also heard the Svs Pb12 and Hsu 2.3 for the same price either would MUCH be better. @ Same size

I am setting up a HT system in our den and am wanting some suggestions on subs to purchase. The room is 18' X 24' X 12'. I estimate the volume to be ~4320 cuft. The room is not a self contained room but opens up to the kitchen, hallway and foyer. Currently, I'll be using a set of Athena AS-F2s for the L & R and a AS-C1 for the center but I plan on upgrading soon to something along the lines of Vandersteen 2ce signatures or similar. My big question right now is, should I go with 1 $$$$ sub or 2 $$ subs? I'd like to stay at $1500 or less. I've been looking at and reading about Paradigm, HSU, Velodyne and SVS online. We don't have but maybe 1 store in Memphis that I can listen to decent subs at so I'll probably be buying whatever I get without getting to hear it. I'll probably use them 50/50 for music/movies although accurate musical reproduction is higher on my list. I do want them to seriously thump when needed for movies though too! Thanks guys, I've learned a lot from lurking and reading here over the last 3-4 years!

Mike

Get 2 eD's A7S-450 with 1300 WATTS each FOR around $1750 shipped
u will be a happy camper
now thats a great value
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=640

3 subs here, one Axiom DSP EP600v2 up front below the screen, and two of the newest Axiom EP350v3's along the side walls spaced a little off center. For my almost 8,000 cu ft recroom/ht room it is a must to get even response across all seats. :)