A local store has the ML Abyss on clearance for $550 placing it, with tax, a little lower in price than the Hsu with shipping.

Room:

19ft x 13ft with 8 ft ceilings. listening position about half way back. sub will probably be in a front corner of the room ( possibly near a doorway to the next room).

Use:

It will be used for music and HT: It's main purpose is to round out some bookshelves (not sure what the bookshelves will be, but they will go down to 40-50Hz). With music being my primary concern, I want the one that is more "musical" to use a tired word: lack of boom, tight, articulate, pitch accurate (not a one note powerhouse), etc. I like the smaller size of the Abyss.

With the price being the same, does anyone recommend one over the other for my situation?

Both are quality subs and will give you the tight, articulate, musical bass your looking for. They are very different animals in their design. Think of the VTF 2 as an Abyss on steroids. It'll give you greater output with more headroom and a flatter frequency response with much better low frequency output. If size isn't an absolute priority the HSU is a much better choice and more than worth the price difference imo. You'll get a better quality more capable sub in every respect.

Also I would take the specs on the bookshelf speakers your looking at with a grain of salt. They aren't designed to play down to 40-50hz with any kind of clean useable output. It's generally a good idea to cross them over higher than that 80hz or so and let the sub handle the lower range that it was designed for.

Both are quality subs and will give you the tight, articulate, musical bass your looking for. They are very different animals in their design. Think of the VTF 2 as an Abyss on steroids. It'll give you greater output with more headroom and a flatter frequency response with much better low frequency output. If size isn't an absolute priority the HSU is a much better choice and more than worth the price difference imo. You'll get a better quality more capable sub in every respect.

Also I would take the specs on the bookshelf speakers your looking at with a grain of salt. They aren't designed to play down to 40-50hz with any kind of clean useable output. It's generally a good idea to cross them over higher than that 80hz or so and let the sub handle the lower range that it was designed for.

I am curious. Have you heard both in the same room?

I think either will be fine. The Abyss is a good little subwoofer. Not a lot going on below 25Hz, but more than up to the task of adding deeper bottom end to your bookshelf speaker. I'm using a compact and inefficient (83db) bookshelf in the same sized room, and I have my bookshelf crossed over at 70Hz to my sub (in this case, the sealed SVS SB12+ which is very comparable to the Abyss), and even in my case, I get plenty of rumble for movies but I appreciate the musicality of the SB12+ for serious listening.

So if you feel better about getting the Abyss due to its size, I'd say you should be pretty safe. The Abyss is overpriced for $999 but under $600, I'd say that's a fair price for a sub of its capability. No doubt that some other people will say you can get 10X higher output in an eD offering or MFW-15, but I think the Abyss suits your application just fine unless you are really looking to shake the house.

Abyss measurements here:

http://www.avhub.com.au/ProductReview.aspx?MagazineID=5&ProductReviewID=130

Both are quality subs and will give you the tight, articulate, musical bass your looking for. They are very different animals in their design. Think of the VTF 2 as an Abyss on steroids. It'll give you greater output with more headroom and a flatter frequency response with much better low frequency output. If size isn't an absolute priority the HSU is a much better choice and more than worth the price difference imo. You'll get a better quality more capable sub in every respect.
Also I would take the specs on the bookshelf speakers your looking at with a grain of salt. They aren't designed to play down to 40-50hz with any kind of clean useable output. It's generally a good idea to cross them over higher than that 80hz or so and let the sub handle the lower range that it was designed for.



Strongly disagree with you here, yes the HSU subs sound good. However there is a noticable difference in quality imo. for a sealed design, the abyss does very well in a small to medium sized room in extending to about 22-23 hz (20 if you have enough room gain)
if music is of any concern, the ML is better compared to a fathom , velodyne dd, or rel rather than hsu,svs or epik (from what ive heard in person).

Strongly disagree with you here, yes the HSU subs sound good. However there is a noticable difference in quality imo. for a sealed design, the abyss does very well in a small to medium sized room in extending to about 22-23 hz (20 if you have enough room gain)
if music is of any concern, the ML is better compared to a fathom , velodyne dd, or rel rather than hsu,svs or epik (from what ive heard in person).

hmm, I was expecting everyone to say "get the Hsu"!!! because they are so highly regarded around here. But I guess that's why I posted the question, just to make sure. Anyone else?? I thought the Abyss at $999 was a bit much, but at 550 plus tax?? tough call.

I am curious. Have you heard both in the same room?

Yep, but not at the same time.

Strongly disagree with you here, yes the HSU subs sound good. However there is a noticable difference in quality imo. for a sealed design, the abyss does very well in a small to medium sized room in extending to about 22-23 hz (20 if you have enough room gain)
if music is of any concern, the ML is better compared to a fathom , velodyne dd, or rel rather than hsu,svs or epik (from what ive heard in person).

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I found the VTF2.3 to be just as musical, if that's what's being referred to as quality. I would personally excange the word for articulation but that's me.

The Abyss did have output in the mid 20s but was significantly rolled off. The HSU gave flatter output across this range while rolling off deeper than the Abyss. I will agree in a small (closed) room with room gain and if size is a factor the abyss should give very good performance and leave you not missing anything. I've tried both the Abyss and SVS SB12 and for people looking for a small form factor I don't think they would be disappointed with either. The abyss also has the ability to be set up as front or downfiring depending on ones preference or needs which is another plus. Size not being a factor and at close to the same price though the clear choice for me at least is the VTF2.3.

. The HSU gave flatter output across this range while rolling off deeper than the Abyss.

According to the review above, the Abyss measured 18Hz to 120Hz ±3dB close-mic'ed which is very impressive if true. Of course, the Hsu will have a higher max output before compression.

$550 is a great price on the Abyss. I used to own a VTF-3 MK2, which is similar to the VTF-2 MK3, and I was quite happy with it. It's somewhat of a toss up. The Hsu probably still has more output down low.

hmm, I was expecting everyone to say "get the Hsu"!!! because they are so highly regarded around here. But I guess that's why I posted the question, just to make sure. Anyone else?? I thought the Abyss at $999 was a bit much, but at 550 plus tax?? tough call.

Well yes, as you can see they are both good subs, i would still give the nod to the abyss for music - it really shows through some material, perticularly stand up bass, and kick drums. Since your main focus is "music" the abyss would be my first choice for under $1000. If it was HT - of course the larger ported hsu will have more output down low.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I found the VTF2.3 to be just as musical, if that's what's being referred to as quality. I would personally excange the word for articulation but that's me.

The Abyss did have output in the mid 20s but was significantly rolled off. The HSU gave flatter output across this range while rolling off deeper than the Abyss. I will agree in a small (closed) room with room gain and if size is a factor the abyss should give very good performance and leave you not missing anything. I've tried both the Abyss and SVS SB12 and for people looking for a small form factor I don't think they would be disappointed with either. The abyss also has the ability to be set up as front or downfiring depending on ones preference or needs which is another plus. Size not being a factor and at close to the same price though the clear choice for me at least is the VTF2.3.


well agree to disagree then, however your assesment of mid 20hz bass rolled off , was most likely do to your listening room, not the sub. I've heard it in 3 different listening rooms and it was flat to about 23 hz, the specs really are conservatively rated...again they are both good sounding subs. It really boils down to what the user is looking for, in this case im thinking sub 20hz output isnt at the top of the list.

I own the Abyss and couldn't be happier.. by far the most musical 12" sub i've heard.. that also produces the thunderous bass for movies people aim for. Best of three worlds in my opinion.. third world for being SMALL for a 12".

Jay

I'm sure some will disagree, but I do prefer the abyss to the fathom for music in the upper octaves. downlow the fathom takes off and never looks back, it was more visceral, has much more output and more useable extension. Kind of OT but with the jl sub but i thought it was a worthwhile mention due to its praise for music. I'm still trying to find a sub that has better pitch definition and articulation in the midbass than the abyss if anyone knows of such a sub feel free to mention. For me its a bit of a tossup between dual abyss or single fathom 112 or 113 for sub duty. I am interested in the pb13 but am fearful it will just be a more powerful version of the 12 nsd which i was not too fond of for music.