How many DTV stations are you getting? (key word: stations, not channels).
And how many Analog TV stations do you get?



[edit] [SUMMARY: In every case except the NYC suburbanite, people had MORE ANALOG than digital stations. Which makes sense because analog travels a longer distance (70-80 miles) before degrading to white noise. Digital rarely travels more than 40 miles. ----- It also concurs with the report published at TVFool.com]



ME (4228 antenna): Cities within range: Philly, Baltimore, Harrisburg, Lancaster, Reading
23 analog stations (2,3,6,8,10,11,12,13,15,17,21,24,27,29,33,43,45,48,49,51,57, 61,65,67)
8 digital stations (8,13,15,21,27,33,43,49)



MY PARENTS (amplified settop antenna):
16 analog stations
4 digital stations


[edit] [My area doesn't have any sub-channels except 8-2 weather, which is just a 5 minute tape set on a loop, so I don't consider that a "real" channel. I never watch it. It's disappointing that my local stations are not using the technology available to them for multi-channel broadcast, but they aen't. Each station is literally just one channel.]

Are you counting analog stations that are snowy? Are they stations you normally watch?

Me? St. Louis, MO. 63128

Analog, 2 4 5 9 11 24 30 46
(8 stations)
Digital 2 4 5 9 11 24 30 46
(8 stations)

Using the YouTube antenna and a crappy Radio Shack amp... (probably not actually doing anything and maybe even hurting my signal reception...)

Terk HDTVa indoor VHF-UHF antenna pointed towards New York
Analog (station number shown.. not the channel number)
5(FOX), 7(ABC), 13(PBS), 25(NYC TV), 31(ION), 41(Univison), 47(Telemundo), 50(NJN-PBS), 58(NJN-PBS), 63(WMBC), 68(telefuturo) (Only 31, 41 and 47 are decent picture and watchable without any strain in eyes.. rest all are static.. worst of the lot 5 and 7 because they are far off and low VHF). Sice I don't understand 41 and 47, only option remaining is 31. If I can bear the static and too desparate to bear the eye strain, I can watch, 13, 25, 50, 58 and 63. Yes I could probably do better, if I had an outdoor VHF antenna.

Digital
2(CBS), 4(NBC), 5(FOX), 7(ABC), 9(My9), 11(CW11), 13(PBS), 25(NYC TV), 31(ION), 41(Univision), 47(Telemundo), 50(NJN-PBS), 58(NJN-PBS), 63(WMBC), 68(Telefuturo)
Out of this only 58 is VHF and is within 5 miles

and NY market has lot of subchannels too.. total of 33 including the main channels.

Afton, VA 22920
analog:
8,12,16,19,23,27,29,35,41,50
digital:
6,8,16,19,23,27,29,35,41,57 (and hoping to get 12 again after they move to their higher antenna post-transition)

bonus DX channel 65

Net - Lose channel 50, Gain Channel 57 (I would get 6 analog, but I don't have a VHF antenna)

Everything that I get analog i get digital.

In fact I can one more digi cos one of my PBS stopped analog broadcast already

Cities within range: Seattle, Tacoma, Bellingham

14 digital stations (4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 16, 20, 22, 24, 33, 42, 45)

I get a weak digital signal from one other, channel 28 (PBS Tacoma), but I've only been able to view it once.

I don't remember how many analogs I got, but I'm pretty sure it was less.

Post transition - As long as my existing set-up works (some stations are moving to VHF), I don't foresee any change.

How many DTV stations are you getting? (key word: stations, not channels). And how many Analog TV stations do you get?



ME (4228 antenna):

cities within range: Philly, Baltimore, Harrisburg, Lancaster, Reading
23 analog stations (too many to list)
8 digital stations (8, 13, 15, 21, 27, 33, 43, 49)

-

MY PARENTS (amplified settop antenna):

16 analog stations
4 digital stations (8, 15, 43, 49)

I get 8 strong analog and 4 like crap analog stations.

I get 8 digital stations, but the 4 analog that come in like crap don't broadcast a digital signal. And your wording is very unfair because many of the digital stations sub-channels broadcast different programing. So they are like different stations.

Oh, and about your sig, do you want some cheese with that whine?:rolleyes:

And your wording is very unfair because many of the digital stations sub-channels broadcast different programing. So they are like different stations.
Totally agree. I watch lot of these subchannels.. which you can get neither in analog, nor in cable or satellite (I don't have cable/satellite.. whatever I have seen in my friends's house). And believe me.. these channels are real good.. e.g. two 24hr weather channel run by NBC and ABC, variety programs by NBC and ABC, kids channel like qubo run by ION and another by PBS, IONLife and a host of local news run by the local PBS. I am sure as the poularity of OTA increases, there will be lot more subchannels and lot more programming in the empty slots. Already.. I see the local network affiliates have started lot of campaign about the DTV transition and how to be prepared for it. PBS leads among themselves.. showing the CECB box (probably an insignia or Zenith) and explaining what needs to be done.

I get everything in digital that I do with analog + all the subchannels -(a bit shaky on one of the digitals - I expect it to get better on Feb 17,2009 when they go to their final facilities).

analog stations list
4 (WUNC), 5 (CBS), 11 (ABC), 17(NBC), 22 (CW), 28 (MNTV), 36 (WUNC), 40(spanish), 47 (ION), 50(FOX)
Digital
4(59) 4-5 subs ; 5 (53) 2 subs ; 11 (52) 3 subs ; 17 (55) 3 subs ; 22 (57) *; 28 (27) ; 36 (39) 4-5 subs ; 40 (38) 1 channel, the other an analog LP * ; 47 (15) 4 subs ; 50 (49) 3 subs

post d-day should be about the same, except most of the channels for digital will be changing

4 (25) ; 5 (48) ; 11 (11) ; 17 (17) ; 22(27) ; 28 (28) ; 36 (36) ; 40 (38) ; 47 (15) ; 50 (49)
* in current digital means it's kind of finicky.

If you ask me, most, but not all subchannels are worthless and just serve to degrade the main channels.

(ONE weather sub is plenty, and ION Life just shows very limited content over and over constantly. And who in the heck wants to watch religious videos 24 hours a day, for crissakes?

I hope to God that there aren't too many more in the future, but I fear I'm wrong. As they keep adding more and spreading the degradation across the spectrum, there isn't a day that goes by now that I wonder why in the he!! I even spent all that money on a 50", hi-rez display.

I don't have a 50" so can't really say if the signal is degraded or not, but with my 37" olevia.. I don't see visible degradation or pixellation for either NBC (have 3 sub channels), ABC (have two sub). Yes the sub channel qualities are not at par with the main channel, but the main channel looks crystal clear and all HD to me. Same is true for FOX5-My9 affiliate, they brodcast each other in theie sub. I have noticed few high speed motion pixellation noise sometimes (rarely and if I am trying to find noise).. but I guess that may be because of my TV and the fact that it's LCD.
e.g. according to TVfool the NBC digital is at 200kw and the signal level at my location is -64.6dBm

long island floral park NY RCA rabbit ears, first floor
digital: 2, rarely 4, 5-01-02,7-01-02-03,9-01-02,11-01-02,21-01-02,41,68
second floor Philco amplified rabbit ears
everything first floor and 4-01-03-04,31-01-02-03-04-05,47,68

CW (WGN-HD here) only has a mirrored sub (doesn't use any extra bandwith), but it looks awful during ball games and fast-moving shows like Smallville. They're supposedly replacing all their equipment, too, but we'll see if it improves. I'm not holding out much hope, because when a station upgrades around here, they generally add more subchannels with more advertising to pay for it.

7 digital
9 or 10 analog (Only higher because of virtually unwatchable low power stations).

The LPs are unwatchable both for snow/ghosts and worthless 'shopping channel' content.

CW (WGN-HD here) only has a mirrored sub (doesn't use any extra bandwith)
Are you saying that "mirrored subs" don't use extra bandwidth? I had always assumed that they used the same extra bandwith as say a sub that was different than the main, although I could certainly be wrong. Why wouldn't a mirrored sub use extra bandwidth?

Oh, 10 analogs and 10 digitals(23 including sub channels)

How many DTV stations are you getting? (key word: stations, not channels). And how many Analog TV stations do you get?



ME (4228 antenna):

cities within range: Philly, Baltimore, Harrisburg, Lancaster, Reading
23 analog stations (too many to list)
8 digital stations (8, 13, 15, 21, 27, 33, 43, 49)

-

MY PARENTS (amplified settop antenna):

16 analog stations
4 digital stations (8, 15, 43, 49)

What box you using? Are you using a splitter?:rolleyes:

I'm listing digital stations that I can usually count on in the evening (not necessarily during the day), and analog stations that I would consider watchable on a regular basis in the evening (a bit of graininess and "sparkles" are OK, but not outright "snow"). This is with a large Radio Shack VHF/UHF combination antenna on the roof, a rotator and preamplifier.

Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville SC/NC:
Digital - 4, 7, 13, 16, 21, 29/38/49, 40, 62
Analog - 4, 7, 13, 21, 29/38/49, 33, 40, 62

29/38/49 are the three transmitters of SC ETV which serve this area, all with identical programming.

Columbia SC:
Digital - 10, 25, 35, 57
Analog - 10

Charlotte NC:
Digital - 3, 36, 46, 55
Analog - 36

Total: 16 digital stations, 10 analog stations.

Westminster, MD (NW of Baltimore)
Analog= 2, 11, 13, 20 (poorly), 22, 24, 43, 45, 54 and 67. All are Baltimore except 20 (DC) and 43 (PA)

Digital= Baltimore- 2, 11, 13, 22, 45, 54, and 67. Will get 24 as soon as they go full power.
DC= 4, 5, 7, 9, 14, 20
PA= 15, 43, and 49 I think, never watch it.

Im using 2 DIY DB4 clone antennas, one for Baltimore and DC, one for PA. Tuners = Samsung and HiSense.

every analog station i get a digital signal. i have a total of 14 digital channels including 2 mynettv, 3 pbs stations and 4 from ion television.

Here just north of Tampa on Fla. west coast i'm using at present a Terrestrial Digital 91-XG at 25 feet up with CM7777 pre-amp. No rotor yet so in experimenting with rotating it by hand and checking signals, analog stations are Ch. 14 Largo, FL, cH 15 HSN St. Petersburg, Ch. 16 Tampa WUSF, Ch. 20 Ft. Myers (at times), Ch.22 Clearwater FL, Ch. 26 Spanish, Ch. 28 Tampa (ABC), cH. 30 WTAM-LP,Tampa; Ch. 32 Lakeland-Tampa, Ch. 38 St. Petersburg, Ch. 40 Sarasota (ABC), Ch. 44 Tampa, Ch. 48LP Pinellas Co., Ch. 49 Tampa (Spanish), Ch. 50 Tampa (Spanish), Ch. 62 Tampa (Spanish), Ch. 66 (Bradenton-Tampa), Ch. 68LP Tampa (TBN). Am finding out I do need a rotor. Digital signals are Ch. 3-1 to 3-4 (PBS), 10-2 & 10-2 (CBS St. Pete/Tampa, 16-1 to 16-4 (PBS Tampa WUSF), 22-1 AND 22-2 (Religious WCLF Clearwater, 28-1 & 28-2 ABC Tampa, 32-1 Tampa, 38-1 WTTA-HD & 38-2 WTTA SD, 44-1 WTOG Tampa, 50-1 Spanish Tampa, 62-1 & 62-2 Tampa Spanish, 66-1 to 66-4 (ION-TV, QUBO, IONLife, Worship). Have only tried east to Orlando one time and got a number of digitals from there. Until I get the rotor, won't try for them again--I think the tropo was causing me to receive those signals that couple of days. The antenna will be another 10 ft. up when the rotor is added; also will add a VHF only shortly--at present cannot receive CH. 8 and 13 in Tampa digital so watch them through Verizon FIOS. the true test of the system will be the rotor.

only reason I'm not getting CH 8 and 13 is they are ch. 7 and 12 for digital.

Kansas City, MO 64138
Analog
2(ABC), 4(FOX), 5(CBS), 9(ABC), 16(TBN), 19(PBS), 29(CW), 38(IND), 41(NBC), 45LP(HSN), 48LP(UNI), 50(ION), 62(MNTV)

Digital
4(FOX), 5(CBS), 9(ABC)sometimes, 16(TBN), 19(PBS), 29(CW), 41(NBC), 50(ION), 62(MNTV)

Sterling, VA (west of Washington, DC)
Channel Master 4221, Winegard YA-6713 upper VHF antenna (for next year), and CM 7777 pre-amp located in the attic, no rotator.

Digital 2008: currently get 17 stations in the DC & Baltimore markets: WMAR 2, WRC 4, WTTG 5, WJLA 7, WUSA 9, WBAL 11, WJZ 13, WFDC 14, WDCA 20, WETA 26, WNVT 30, WHUT 32, WBFF 45, WDCW 50, WNUV 54, WWPX 60, WFPT 62.
Will increase to 18 stations when WUTB 24 finally goes full power. Could probably get at least four more stations with a rotator, but two of those are identical to stations I already get, not worth the hassle.

Digital 2009: Should get at least 3 more stations after the analog shutdown when WPXW Ion 66 takes over the WUSA-DT 9 UHF 38 transmitter, WNVC 56 & WHAG 25 put up new antennas and go full power.

Analog: have not checked in long time, but fewer watchable stations than digital. With no low VHF antenna, the 3 low VHF analog stations are unwatchable, but that should not count. There are 2 low power stations in DC that I have gotten at night that have no digital signal.

Bakersfield California. I have cable in the house so I only use OTA outdoors with a 13 inch Durabrand SD set with a digital tuner. The antenna is 30 year old rabbit ears.

4 digital stations (we only have 4 in this market!): KGET NBC RF 25 virtual 17-1 with CW on subchannel 17-2. KERO ABC RF 10 virtual 23-1 no subchannels. KBAK CBS RF 33 virtual 29-1 with an SD simulcast of their co-owned low power FOX affiliate on a subchannel (virtual 58-2) (yes, Bakersfield's FOX affiliate is a freaking low power station!). KUVI MYTV RF 55 (moving to 45 post transition) virtual 45-1 SD only with no subchannels. All digital stations have excellent reception (yes, UHF stations with rabbit ears!) except for some pixellation and audio dropouts if a plane flies overhead, someone walks between the antenna and the transmitter, or my neighbor uses his electric weed whacker.

4 full power analog stations (Bakersfield only has 4 full power tv stations!), 17 NBC, 23 ABC, 29 CBS 45 MYTV. 17 and 45's transmitters are on a mountain close to the north side of town (where I live) and have good reception quality. 23 and 29 are on the other side of town and reception quality is somewhat marginal. Digital looks much better for all stations. When the aforementioned planes or weed whacker interfere then analogs will ghost, get snowy, roll and flip, and get staticky audio.

14 low power analogs. Channel 11 comes in plainly. The rest vary from suck to totally suck! (2 of these are VHF, so it isn't just the rabbit ears). KBFX-CA FOX 58 will probably go digital next year on low power RF 22. A low power digital station will probably be difficult or impossible to receive on my side of town with rabbit ears.

In Boston area we have about 21 digital stations that I can get.

For analog the number is about the same, but exact number depends on what you count ie how snowy is watchable?

Then in summer with good conditions we can get NYC stations and Hartford CT!
Also sometimes stations from Maine. I have not yet got any dx stations in digital.

Martinsville IN
analog: 4,6,8,13,15,20,23,30,40,42,59,63
digital:4,6,8,13,20,30,40,42,59,63
Using radio shack amplified indoor outdoor hd antenna on vizio vx37l. I will gladly give up the 2 extra analog channels for the 4 pbs sub-channels.

I gotta get my new mast up here soon, but for now I get...

Eight. WATM, WJAC, WTAJ, WPSU, WPXI, WWCP, KDKA and WPGH. Two Foxes, two CBSes, two NBCs, one ABC and one PBS. All those are digital.

I don't even watch analog any more except for the CW station, which still doesn't have a digital in our area (Pittsburgh and Johnstown/Altoona).

Zip 28150

3rd story mounted Attic CM 4228 with Titan 7777 Preamp and CM rotor

Analog - maybe 16-18 counting multiple PBS on a given night, but only 4-5 pretty clear

Digital (15) CBS3. ABC4, CBS7, ABC9, ABC13, FOX18, FOX21, PBS33, NBC36, CW46, PBS49. MyN55, PBS58, CW62, IND64. With the antenna outside, I can add at least 6-8 others on occasion with some Networks Stations from up to 100 miles and several lower power PBS or Ind (mostly Religious programming), but nothing consistent.

Are you saying that "mirrored subs" don't use extra bandwidth? I had always assumed that they used the same extra bandwith as say a sub that was different than the main, although I could certainly be wrong. Why wouldn't a mirrored sub use extra bandwidth?I was told by some people on our OTA thread, including an engineer at another local station, that it didn't use any extra bandwith, at least when we were discussing this one particular channel.

They explained it to me in some detail, but I really don't remember any of it.

I live in Washington, DC.

With rabbit ears:
Analog, watchable: NBC 4, FOX 5, ABC 7, CBS 9, Uni 14, MyTV 20, PBS 22, Telemundo 25, PBS 26, PBS 32, Ind.(?) 49, CW 50, Ind. 56

Despite being only ~5 mi from the main transmitters none of these are cable-quality.

Digital, same antenna, watchable: 4, 5, 7, 9, 14, 20, 26, 32, 50

25 is LP/analog only, 22 and 56's digital signals are currently lower-power. I think 49 is also LP/analog only.

All are currently UHF, though 7 and 9 will be back to VHF next year. I have to move the antenna an inch or two depending on the channel, but all are very stable with no dropouts once I do so.

Upstairs, with a CM4220 sitting on a chair and a Insignia converter box I get the digital Baltimore channels ABC 2, FOX 45 and CW 54, as well as the Annapolis (~25mi away) PBS 22, all watchable with occasional dropouts. In a slightly different position I also get CBS 13 but have no way of fixing the antenna there. None of the Baltimore analog channels are watchable.

Definitely a positive change for me. The analog channels I lost are either coming back with stronger digital next year or are channels I didn't watch in the first place. Having the Baltimore Fox and CW stations are big pluses as they have some shows the DC stations cut off last year.

Also, definite bonus with sub-channels: ABC 7 has a "local programming" sub-channel that is pretty bad, but PBS 22 has three channels and 26 four, which have different programming from each other most of the time. Fox 45 has a second channel of mostly old sitcoms which I appreciate.

Ramm,
Good to know. I always thought it was such a waste of bandwidth to just simulcast a SD channel along with the same channel in HD. Who would want to watch the SD channel anyway? even on a SD set the HD channel would probably look better.

Newport News, VA, approximately 14 miles from most of the transmitters in Driver, VA:

WUND, channel 2, PBS from Edenton North Carolina--Analog only, no digital reception. Signal is snowy, but viewable most of the time. This is technically not what I would call a local, but Dish Network includes it in the local package for this zip code.

WTKR - channel 3, CBS. Both analog and digital received clearly, but digital is plagued with some digital blocking and loss of audio sporadically

WSKY - channel 4, independent from North Carolina (digital only, as this station has already ceased analog transmission). Reception is extremely good with digital, possibly because it's the only station broadcasting digitally on VHF in this area currently. When analog was available, the signal varied--reasonably watchable on some evenings, totally unwatchable on others--but almost always plagued with a considerable amount of snow.

WAVY - channel 10, NBC. Both digital and analog are received clearly.

WVEC - channel 13, ABC. Both digital and analog are received clearly.

WHRO - channel 15, PBS. Both digital and analog are received clearly, but WHRO digital includes separate HD and SD feeds, sometime with different programming on each, plus PBS Kids. Excellent digital reception so far.

WGNT - channel 27, CW. Both analog and digital are received, but analog is plagued with so much ghosting that it's virtually unwatchable. Digital, so far, has been virtually flawless.

WTVZ - channel 33, MyTV. Both analog and digital are received, but analog once again is so plagued with ghosting that it's annoying to watch. Both SD and HD versions are transmitted in digital, with some annoying audio dropouts. Careful aiming of the antenna is minimizing the issue.

WVBT - channel 43, Fox. Both analog and digital are received, but analog is again so plagued with ghosting that it's annoying to watch. Digital, so far, has been virtually flawless.

WPXV - channel 49, ION. Both analog and digital are received, but this is the worst local analog station of them all. Ghosting...snow...forget it. Digital version offers four channels, ION, Qubo, ION Life and Worship. Signal strength is the weakest of all of the locals, but with careful aiming of the antenna these still come in beautifully, with no digital blocking or audio issues. I wish WTKR's reception was as consistent.

There are various low-powered stations on analog, both VHF and UHF band, that I've chosen not to list, with signal quality varying from quite good to unwatchable...ditto for two stations broadcasting in digital, both of which appear to be nothing more than repeaters for the local NBC and Fox affiliates...the Fox repeater doesn't even broadcast any audio, at least no audio that can be received with the Zenith converter.

Are you counting analog stations that are snowy? Are they stations you normally watch? Well of course. If I can see them, I watch them, because distant stations often show things that are not available locally.

For example Philadelphia stations show Philadelphia sports.
Baltimore stations show Baltimore sports.

Philadelphia shows a "MYNetTV" station not available locally.
Baltimore has a "rerun" channel filled with lots of classic shows.

Having the ability to get long-distance stations from major cities is a benefit of ANALOG that digital does not provide. And your wording is very unfair because many of the digital stations sub-channels broadcast different programing.: My area doesn't have any sub-channels except 8-2 weather, which is just a five minute tape set on a loop, so I don't consider that a "real" channel. I never watch it. It's disappointing that my local stations are not using the technology available to them for multi-channel broadcast, but they aren't. Each station is literally just one channel.

I'm literally getting only 8 lousy digital channels. about your sig, do you want some cheese with that whine?:rolleyes: As I tell the moral police that complain there's too much sex on tv: "Stop trying to tell me what I can or cannot watch. Nobody's forcing you to watch shows containing sex, so don't censor my favorite shows like the Shield or Rome or Sopranos. Just change the channel." Similarly, nobody's forcing you to read my signature, so stop trying to censor me. :DIf you ask me, most, but not all subchannels are worthless and just serve to degrade the main channels. (ONE weather sub is plenty, and ION Life just shows very limited content over and over constantly. And who in the heck wants to watch religious videos 24 hours a day, for crissakes?) .....

As they keep adding more and spreading the degradation across the spectrum, there isn't a day that goes by now that I wonder why in the he!! I even spent all that money on a 50", hi-rez display.

Southeast, FL area (Miami/Fort Lauderdale/West Palm Beach):
Analog: 35 individual station transmitters
Digital: 35 individual station transmitters I didn't ask how many are available in your area. I asked how many you can SEE on your set. For example I have around 20 digital stations "available" in my area, but only 8 are good enough to actually see on my set. Analog= 2, 11, 13, 20 (poorly), 22, 24, 43, 45, 54 and 67

I'm surprised. You can't see D.C. stations 4 or 5 in your location? I'm all the way up here in Lancaster PA and I can see both during early morning hours. In Westminster Maryland you should be able to see them very clearly.

rrrrrroger, now I see why you're disappointed. Here in indy, abc,nbc, and cbs each use a sub for news and / or weather. an independent has two channels(which is the sub?) with different rerun shows. pbs bloomington has an education sub, and pbs indy has create (an hgtv type channel). so now my sat. tv lost a lot of value and I love dtv.

LA Area, CM4228/YA1713 & CM7777 (attic).

I can receive:

22 Full power DTV stations, not including sub-channels. As respects Mt. Wilson, KFLA-LD is the only one I can't receive reliably, but it is at low power, on VHF 8, with a null in my direction.

22 Full Power analog stations (watchable), a 23rd, KVCR from Riverside sometimes comes in as well (albeit very poorly). I can't reliably receive it for DTV, even when I move the antenna in that direction.

8 Low Power analog stations, most of which are of very poor quality here. I don't watch any of them, though they may remain useful as troubleshooters for this area next year.

I'm not in a spot where I can reliably receive any other DMA, despite being 51 miles from the towers. San Diego stations 8 and 10 are barely watchable even during moderate tropo events. (I wouldn't call any local tropo events strong after what I have seen in the North East.)

14 total. 8 from Detroit, 5 from Toledo, 1 from Ann Arbor, which are all that are available.

Maybe the OP has somekind of set up issue. Without terrain issues (mountains, etc.), DTV works fine within ~60 miles. Of course analog stations will be received over longer distances, but the quality will be poor. Hardly comparable.

Yeah ken - if you look mr rrrroger's posting history - you can see his agenda on this thread - he wants to stirup hate and discontent about digital TV for his (not properly setup) perceived problems with DTV.

Well - the fact of the matter is that most of us are getting every digital counterpart of just about every analog that we can "receive" - and mr rrrroger apparently can't due to his location and current setup. Mr. rrrroger can't even keep the details straight on the CECB program, much less put out some effort to get his DTV reception situation the way he wants it (i.e. like his analog reception).

Yeah ken - if you look mr rrrroger's posting history - you can see his agenda on this thread - he wants to stirup hate and discontent about digital TV for his (not properly setup) perceived problems with DTV.

Well - the fact of the matter is that most of us are getting every digital counterpart of just about every analog that we can "receive" - and mr rrrroger apparently can't due to his location and current setup. Mr. rrrroger can't even keep the details straight on the CECB program, much less put out some effort to get his DTV reception situation the way he wants it (i.e. like his analog reception).

Well When I get my box if I do not get that many stations I would first move antenna then try to replace antenna before I condemn the whole digital platform

Well When I get my box if I do not get that many stations I would first move antenna then try to replace antenna before I condemn the whole digital platform

You've got the right idea - see what you get, make any adjustments necessary, evaluate go back again.

That being said - there will be SOME locations that are going to end up "losing" some stations that they previously received. :mad: There are some lucky people who will gain in number of stations :D, and most of us will stand still in number of stations, but get better quality / more "channels" due to subchannels :). Nobody made any guarantees for everybody.

Unfortunately, we, the American public, seem to insist that every change benefit everyone, or at least, harm no one. That is why we can't get healthcare passed or Social Security adequately reformed.

A few people will lose reception of some channels. Most other people will gain channels. Nearly all who get channels will get better quality pictures and will benefit from the additional sub channels, and of course, the country benefits from selling off and re-allocating over 100 MHz of bandwidth.

In my market, Washington, DC, most people can now get digital signals from Baltimore, which is great for them since the Baltimore Ravens are usually not carried in Washington when they play at the same time as the Redskins, which happened three times at the end of the 2006 season. I add these channels to the master antenna systems in multiple dwelling units, so even the cable TV subscribers now get twice as many "local" broadcast channels as they did before.

Sorry for the handful of losers, but their plight will soon be forgotten.

......(snip)... Which makes sense because analog travels a longer distance (70-80 miles) before degrading to white noise. Digital rarely travels more than 40 miles. ----- It also concurs with the report published at TVFool.com]

well....if this was true, I would only get 3 digitals b/c eveything else is 49 miles or further away.

I receive most of the Baltimore digitals @ 75 miles. I get them on all on analog however the UHF's are poor and the VHF's are decent.

Come 2009, I have 5 stations moving back to VHF, so I'm hoping a couple of Washington DC stations come in (82 miles).

Digital rarely travels more than 40 miles.

All but two of the digital stations listed in my previous post in this thread are more than 40 miles away. The ones in Columbia and Charlotte are about 70 miles away.

This is with a large rooftop antenna, but around here you need that kind of antenna to get decent reception on most of the analog stations, too. My wife has a small TV in the kitchen, that she uses for watching the news in the morning while eating breakfast. With its built-in antenna, it can get two stations.

[b] In every case except the NYC suburbanite, people had MORE ANALOG than digital stations.

You have to count me in with that NYC suburbanite. I'm a Seattle suburbanite (waaay suburbanite, 30 miles north) and since my previous post I can say I do get more watchable digital channels than analog.

All stations that I can receive in analog I can receive in digital, except for the low-power stations that are broadcasting only in analog.  Of the stations available both ways, there are absolutely none that I can get one way but not the other.

So it's a wash for me, other than the clarity and the subchannels.

..most of us will stand still in number of stations, but get better quality / more "channels" due to subchannels.You can't have them both on the same frequency if you're talking about picture quality. And upgarding the equipment doesn't always help. A station here just upgraded their encoders, but also added a sub, and the new equipment didn't help. Now the main, 720p channel looks worse than it ever did.

Anyhow, I counted 29 digital channels and 31 subchannels, from Chicago (41 miles), Rockford (45 miles) & Milwaukee (61 miles). The Milwaukee channels used to be a more consistent, but I don't really get them until nightfall now, ever since I split the signal last fall. Once the weather warms up, they usually come in stronger, though.

I didn't even bother to count all the analog channels, because the reception quality is so varied.

Here in Cary, NC, I am getting 15 digital stations (and an average of two subchannels per station) with my directional antenna on a rotor. I can get most of them fairly reliably with one eastward antenna orientation but I must turn west to get some of the stations more than 50 miles to the west. Those are redundant in terms of networks, so I don't bother unless the closer stations have preempted a network show of interest to me.

I haven't bothered to watch OTA for over 15 years (lousy picture quality) until I got a digital tuner built into my new TV. Now it's the only broadcast format I watch.

2 WFMY CBS
4 WUNC PBS
5 WRAL CBS
8 WGHP Fox
11 WTVD ABC
17 WNCN NBC
20 WCWG CW
22 WLFL CW
28 WRDC MyN
30 WRAY Ind
40 WUVC Uni
45 WXLV ABC
47 WRPX Ion
48 WMYV MyN
50 WRAZ Fox

Analog I got 8 good channels (and 1 very fuzzy).

Digital I get 9 good channels..including useful subchannels (not the 24 weather stations),I get a total of 16 good digital channels.

I count these sub-channels because they are to me distinct channels, with alternate programming...not just weather or analog version of the digital channel.

Digital does indeed travel more than 40 miles. My father is in Hagerstown, MD, which is something around 65 miles from the DC transmitters yet with just a tiny antenna (Philips MANT940) outdoors on the side of the house he gets all DC stations perfectly without dropouts unless the weather is absolutely dreadful--and even then it's just 50 (CW) that degrades. That's in addition to the closer-in stations from northern MD and VA. No mast going 70 feet in the air necessary.

And as I said before I now get the Baltimore stations in DC proper which I could not previously watch in any decent quality.

Roger, I am sorry your situation is not working out well, but it seems as though everyone else is benefiting from DTV. Perhaps after the shutdown when transmitters shift around you can find a better position/setup that'll bring things closer to how they are with your analog setup.

he wants to stirup hate and discontent about digital TV for his (not properly setup) perceived problems with DTV. Oh really. It's MY fault, is it? Fine. You are welcome to come to my house & try to tune in these digital channels. (And yes, you WILL fail.)

12, 17, 29, 57 (philly), 11, 45 (baltimore)

I get ALL of these on my analog set without any difficulty, and yes they are fuzzy but I still watch them on a regular basis (because I'm not a spoiled man who demands perfection for free entertainment). I get absolutely NONE of them with digital. Just a blank blue screen. And it is not my fault. I'm an electrical engineer who can grasp the complexity of electronics.

So don't talk down to me.

Yesterday I was trying to watch channels 21 and 27 in Harrisburg, my own Designated market area, and I couldn't get the darn things to tune-in!!!!! Worthless DTV crap. I just spent $125 on a Zenith box plus a CM4228 plus an amplifier... what more am I suppoed to do?!?!?

12, 17, 29, 57 (philly), 11, 45 (baltimore)
I get ALL of these on my analog set without any difficulty, and yes they are fuzzy but I still watch them on a regular basis (because I'm not a spoiled man who demands perfection for free entertainment). I get absolutely NONE of them with digital.
There are some stations that will have extended reach with digital and others that will lose coverage. Such as the low VHF stations like WMAR 2 unless they get a high power UHF signal and even then will likely lose some deep fringe viewers. For me, digital reception works great for stations as far as 50 miles even with the CM 4221 and YA-6713 antenna in the attic. Would probably get a few more stations on the roof, but the roof is way up there so I will stick with the attic.

For the stations you list, WHYY-DT PBS 12 on UHF 50 in Philadelphia is well known to be running at severely reduced digital coverage. The station was originally on UHF 55 but got moved to UHF 50 at reduced power because UHF 55 was reassigned to Qualcomm in a complicated situation. WHYY-DT will be moving to VHF 12 next year at 14.9 kW next year which should give them close to their analog coverage. Although you should have a true VHF or upper VHF antenna for optimum performance.

WPHL-DT my 17 is currently on UHF 54 at 500 kW,but will be flash-cutting back to UHF 17 next year but it looks like they have opted for only 77 kW. WTXF-DT Fox 29 on UHF 42 is using a side-mounted antenna at a much lower height. According to Falcon_77's very handy spreadsheet (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12890633#post12890633), WTXF will replace the analog antenna on top of the tower with a new on for digital broadcast next year. You may have to wait until spring, 2009 to get WTXF-DT 29 OTA. There are stations that won't have full digital coverage until some months after 2/17/09. Just the blunt reality of the complex transition process.

WBAL-DT 11 in Baltimore is going to be one of the stations with reduced coverage. They are currently up there on UHF 59 at 513 kW. They have the poorest digital coverage of the big 5 in Baltimore in my experience. They have asked and been granted to run at only 5 kW on VHF 11 (down from 13.6 kW IIRC) next year so you may have to write that station off for OTA reception. WBFF-DT Fox 45 is putting out a strong signal on UHF 46, but you may be getting some interference issues from WPMT-DT Fox 43 on UHF 47 in York, PA. There are some consequences, especially in the crowded mid-Atlantic region, of packing the stations closer together in frequency.

There are winners and losers for OTA reception in the digital transition. Most of us have seen improved coverage with solid clear pictures where the analog was too noisy to be viable. But there are a few who will lose some distant OTA stations and you appear to be one of them. But until next spring, you can't say for sure. You need to evaluate each station using the info on the net before you make over reaching statements. You can start with:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm (look for Form 301 applications and Form 387 transition plans for info).

It is not the fault of the box that it cannot pull in fringe signals inside an insulated room. Most rooms have metal-backed insulation. Many houses have metal siding. An attic has a better chance, but even then conservative estimate is that you lose 30-50% of the signal in an uninsulated attic, and some say it's more like 90%. Inside an insulated house it's worse.

Your zipcode with antennaweb.com shows 3 analog signals in the indoor range (2 yellow, 1 green). With digital it shows 5 signals, all yellow. An amp won't make up for the signal that never makes it to the antenna inside your house. You say it's a 4228, but you say elsewhere it's in the room with the tv.

Most people will still get their local channels with an indoor antenna, but if it's fringe stations you want, you would not get them via local pay service, either.

Oh really. It's MY fault, is it? Fine. You are welcome to come to my house & try to tune in these digital channels. (And yes, you WILL fail.)

12, 17, 29, 57 (philly), 11, 45 (baltimore)

I get ALL of these on my analog set without any difficulty, and yes they are fuzzy but I still watch them on a regular basis (because I'm not a spoiled man who demands perfection for free entertainment). I get absolutely NONE of them with digital. Just a blank blue screen. And it is not my fault. I'm an electrical engineer who can grasp the complexity of electronics.

So don't talk down to me.

Yesterday I was trying to watch channels 21 and 27 in Harrisburg, my own Designated market area, and I couldn't get the darn things to tune-in!!!!! Worthless DTV crap. I just spent $125 on a Zenith box plus a CM4228 plus an amplifier... what more am I suppoed to do?!?!?


How about put that 4228 up on the roof where it belongs ?

You are welcome to come to my house & try to tune in these digital channels. (And yes, you WILL fail.)

You should look here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453241 , find your local thread, and then re-post your challenge there. Someone might take you up on it and you might end up getting more digital stations.

Oh really. It's MY fault, is it? Fine. You are welcome to come to my house & try to tune in these digital channels. (And yes, you WILL fail.)

12, 17, 29, 57 (philly), 11, 45 (baltimore)

I get ALL of these on my analog set without any difficulty, and yes they are fuzzy but I still watch them on a regular basis (because I'm not a spoiled man who demands perfection for free entertainment). I get absolutely NONE of them with digital. Just a blank blue screen. And it is not my fault. I'm an electrical engineer who can grasp the complexity of electronics.

So don't talk down to me.

Yesterday I was trying to watch channels 21 and 27 in Harrisburg, my own Designated market area, and I couldn't get the darn things to tune-in!!!!! Worthless DTV crap. I just spent $125 on a Zenith box plus a CM4228 plus an amplifier... what more am I suppoed to do?!?!?
Calm down. Please give us your zip code, and we'll try to help you.

If you are in an area where your analog signals are fuzzy, but you choose to watch them, that probably means you are outside of the station's intended viewing. My guess is that you are in a pretty hilly area, and that the UHF digital channels don't reach you as well as the VHF ones do.

As an engineer, I assume you are familiar with digital electronics. It's an all-or-nothing system. If your receiver can't tell one state from another, it won't work. If OTA won't work by you after you've done as much as you want to do, get cable or get satellite.

You can't just use the auto tuner on your HDTV or tuner box. I found you need to go through the stations starting at 1 - 69 and then you find analog stations now broadcasting in the higher UHF ban. Remember next year more near the end everything will come into it's own and better reception will happen when digital is all they need to worrier about. No broadcaster is going to drop their money into digital now since analog is still serving it's purpose but when that is only left they will pump up the power and content. Remember it gives each station 7 channels of commercial money making content to put on the air. After a year you are all going to say, why didn't they dump analog years ago

I'm 35 miles northeast of the Houston antenna farm. I currently get 16 digital and 21 analog channels (some of which are low power with no digital counterpart) with a rooftop antenna and pre-amp.

Yeah ken - if you look mr rrrroger's posting history - you can see his agenda on this thread - he wants to stirup hate and discontent about digital TV for his (not properly setup) perceived problems with DTV.

Well - the fact of the matter is that most of us are getting every digital counterpart of just about every analog that we can "receive" - and mr rrrroger apparently can't due to his location and current setup. Mr. rrrroger can't even keep the details straight on the CECB program, much less put out some effort to get his DTV reception situation the way he wants it (i.e. like his analog reception).

Agreed. I've had to eat my words a few times due to my own learning curve relating to standard-def OTA DTV reception. For many of us it's worth the effort. Mr rrroger might prefer to simply subscribe to the cheapest level of analog cable ("Limited Cable" or "Lifeline Cable") - typically under $20/month.

Analog = 10 channels - (3,6,10,16,17,22,28,29,39,60)
Digital = 40 channels (counting subs) - (3, 6, 8, 10, 15, 16, 17, 22, 28, 29, 39, 40, 44, 48, 56, 57, 60, 61, 69, and all the subs)

Distance to Philadelphia stations = 78 miles
Distance to Scranton/WB stations = 54 miles
Distance to Harrisburg/Lebanon stations = 98 miles

The Zenith box does a tremendous job of pulling in long distance stations. I've seen it mentioned in other posts that the digital signal peters out beyond 40 miles. I don't find that to be the case. I'm within 40 miles of only three stations, 39, 60, and 69.

The Zenith box does a tremendous job.... Agree. I am negotiating with other condo owners about a rooftop antenna; until then, here is the truth about my own OTA reception using various indoor antennas in a ground-floor condo unit surrounded by a lot of other buildings and close to an airport (though not directly under a flight path):

Analog:
Fair-to-good: 13, 28, 33, 51 (Fox, PBS Tacoma, ION, Univision - all are LOS from my property address but not necessarily from my unit)
Poor: 9, 11, 16, 20, 22 (PBS Seattle, CW, KONG, TBN, MyTV)
Unviewably snowy or distorted: 4, 5, 7, 9 (ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS Seattle)

DTV using the Zenith and basic rabbit ears:
Excellent: 13, 28, 33, 45, 51
Pretty good (some signal fade): 9, 11, 20, 22
Intermittent - viewable sometimes: 4, 5, 7, 16

Note: 4, 5, 7 and 16 are 2-edge signals 14 miles from my address. 9, 11 and 22 are 1-edge signals 12 miles from my address. Other stations are 15 to 25 miles away

Net result: On the stations I could previously receive with marginally OK PQ using an indoor antenna (Fox, PBS Tacoma, ION, Univision), ATSC PQ is vastly superior to NTSC and very stable.

On four of the five OTA analogs which could "come in" with poor PQ and distorted sound (PBS Seattle, CW, TBN and MyTV), DTV comes in most of the time. When I can receive it, PQ is vastly superior, though there is some signal fade and pixellation. Stations I couldn't receive with NTSC analog anyway, come in some of the time. Using a CM 4201 indoors helped but in my experience it didn't solve the problem - I gave my 4201 to relatives for use in their home and it works wonderfully there (YMMV). I'm looking forward to a shared rooftop aerial in the future, but aware that airport-originating RFI will remain a periodic nuisance. YMMV.

My 9 primary analog channels come in clear with an indoor antenna. Only one digital channel on low VHF. In the worst room for tv, I had to manually add one station; I'd turned off the amplified antenna temporarily. Oddly, it was not the same channel I needed it for in analog. I have a handful of weak analog stations that didn't come through in digital (some may be analog only) but I haven't tried rotations yet. It is a bit trickier to adjust the antenna; with analog, you get instant feedback. With digital, because PQ is either good or gone, it's weird trying to find the sweet spot.

Downside: I lost audio for 1-2 seconds with low flying airplanes. We only get pixilation if the signal falls completely apart (pic stayed with aircraft). So far the only pixilation has been when trying to lock onto a weak signal. Once it's ok it seems to stay ok, unlike Comcast, where pixilation happened all the time.

These are my results with the Zenith DTT900 I got yesterday, compared to the built-in NTSC tuner in my ~15-year-old Magnavox TV. I have a 32-element, 80-inch Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna in the attic, with a little preamp (no idea what, it's old, has two outputs but I'm only using one) up by the antenna followed by maybe 30ft of coax to the tuner. I haven't touched the the antenna in a long time; it's aimed for me to get the best combination of analog channels.

There aren't a whole lot of stations here. I'm not near any big cities, but am in the middle of a cluster of towns in NW Arkansas with aggregate population of maybe 200,000, and 30 miles north of a bigger town of ~100,000.

Also, I'm in a low lying area, with hill blocking signal in both directions (all the towers are either generally northish or southish). At my old place a couple blocks away, higher up on the hill, I got much better reception with just rabbit ears than I do here with the big antenna. With my bad location I've been worried that with the end of analog I'd go from getting a few watchable channels to none at all, and I've appreciated info on the web such as this thread.

Here's what I actually get. Analog channels on the left, with corresponding digital channel, if any, on the right. I assigned subjective percentages for perceived signal reception quality. The ones 75% and below are only marginally watchable only some of the time:

All analog broadcasts I can see, along with corresponding digital stations:
net ch call sig d-ch d-call d-sig
-------------------------------------------------------
(these are watchable with current antenna orientation: ~160°)
1 PBS 13 KAFT 95% - 13.1 KAFT-DT and 3 subchannels 80%
2 FOX 24 KFTA 79% - (no signal for 24.1 but they do broadcast)
3 ABC 29 KHOG 86% - 29.1 KHOG-DT no subchannels 65%
4 UNI 31 KJBW 90%
5 MNT 34 KPBI 75%
6 RTN 36 KFFS 90%
7 TBN 42 K42BS 70%
8 NBC 51 KNWA 71% - (almost get 50.1 KNWA-DT with 1 subchannel **)
9 IND 57 KSBN 95%
10 CBS 62 K62DQ 84% - 5.1 KFSM-DT and 1 subchannel 80%
(these are not watchable with current antenna orientation: ~160°)
11 HTN 20 KVAQ 40%
12 FMN 45 K45EI 35% Note: There are numerous (at least 9, from antennaweb.org) other analog broadcasts in my area that I don't pick up at all.

All digital broadcasts in my area, from antennaweb.org:
net d-ch d-call # subchannels direction d-sig
--------------------------------------------------
(these have some signal with current antenna orientation: ~160°)
1 CBS 5.1 KFSM-DT 1 subchannels 176°(356°) 80%
2 PBS 13.1 KAFT-DT 3 subchannels 154°(334°) 80%
3 ABC 29.1 KHOG-DT 0 subchannel 127°(307°) 65%
4 NBC 50.1 KNWA-DT 1 subchannels (115°)295° 40% unwatchable
(these have no signal with current antenna orientation: ~160°)
5 FOX 24.1 KFTA-DT ? subchannels 174°(354°) no signal
6 A1 39.1 KSBN-DT ? subchannels (133°)313° no signal
7 FMN 32 K45EI-DT ? subchannels (151°)331° no signal(I put the 180° opposite orientations in parentheses. It seems like I pick up signals pretty well when the antenna is in line with the tower, whether pointed toward it or away. If not as good as direct toward, directly away is at least better than not in line.)

So, in good weather I go from 10 analog channels to 3 main and 4 sub digital channels. Fortunately, all three main channels that I still receive are ones I watch, and most of the channels that I lose are ones I don't watch. But I did watch 24 (Fox) and 36 (RTN) and lose them. And I haven't gained any new channels except the 3 PBS subs and 1 CBS sub. Again, this is with the exact same setup of moderately large antenna and preamp in the attic, the aim of which I haven't yet tried to adjust to optimize digital reception.

** IF I can tweak my antenna setup enough to get channel 50.1 (same as analog 51), not only will I get NBC on 50.1, but at least some of the time they broadcast Fox on 50.2. Hopefully I can do that without making the channels I now get much worse.

During some rain I didn't get ABC at all (just enough signal for some visual gibberish on the screen). PBS picture flaked out a couple times but was mostly on. When the rain was lighter, all three channels were mostly there but had the audio drop out intermittently, a missing syllable or word every now and then.

Hopefully as time goes on, and especially after Feb. 2009, broadcasters will make digital signals both more numerous and stronger.

As far as quality of reception for the channels I do receive, obviously it's pretty much all or nothing with digital. Picture is really clear when it's there at all; sound is really clear when it's there. It seems like the sound cuts out more frequently than picture, but sound comes back on faster after cutting out.

Optimizing the tuning (aim of antenna, etc.) of digital stations is more difficult than analog stations, because you don't get the instant feedback. (With analog you watch the screen, move the antenna, and say "oh that made it better. oh that was too much. etc.") Of course, with digital stations that you're already receiving, it's less necessary to optimize because once you get it, you get it really clear. But for digital signals that are marginal you go from nothing on the screen to nothing on the screen, as opposed to weak analog signals where you go from a fuzzier picture to a less fuzzy one. (My Zenith DTT900 does have a signal strength meter, and for strong signals it beeps. But it gives no numeric value for signal and seems to condense its readings into large gradations of about 10%. Also it has a bit of lag, so you get quick but not instant feedback.)

Question: I'll experiment, but how likely is it that the pre-amp is actually hurting my digital reception? It definitely helps substantially with analog reception.

Also, would I get significant attenuation from running the antenna signal through the VCR so I could use it to switch between analog and digital? I have a mechanical A/B coax switch that presumably doesn't cause much attenuation but isn't as convenient (can't do it with a remote control).

With the TV/VCR button you can either forward the signal straight to the TV (I would forward it to the DTT900 digital tuner, then to the TV via coax), or keep the signal for the VCR's built-in analog tuner and send that to the TV via composite. But actually I think the VCR is always keeping part of the signal, and the TV/VCR button seems to just turn off/on the VCR's channel 4 modulation. So how much is that going to hurt the digital tuner's reception? Maybe the preamp in the attic helps compensate (?) by making the available signal stronger... And do VCRs generally have their own preamps (re-amp really and if they did would it even help the digital tuner), or do they just passively split the available signal between their built-in tuner and the coax output-to-TV?

Bakersfield now has a digital low power station. Bakersfield does not have it's own PBS station. Both KVPT Fresno and KCET Los Angeles have analog low power translators here. Within the last week KVPT started a digital low power translator as well. K18HD (I suppose the HD in the callsign was chosen to emphasize that it has high definition) is both RF and virtual channel 18. 18-1 carries a simulcast of their analog channel. 18-2 carries the national "PBS-HD Channel". 18-3 carries V-ME (Spanish) (I wish they had picked the Annenberg-CPB channel for subchannel 3). The analog LP on channel 34 has light snow. The digital signal comes in great, except when airplanes fly overhead, etc (see my previous posts). I have read that Telefutura and Telemundo (which already operate LP analog channels here) have applications for digital companion channels and that 2 other applications for LP digitals stations are also on file. I hope TBN starts a digital LP here, as I would like to get The Church Channel and JCTV. I also wish somebody would put Retro Television Network on a subchannel. Probably many LPs nationwide will have digital companion channels on the air by next February or will flash cut to digital then. Eventually the FCC will require all LPs to be digital only. The digital transition will not spell the death of LPTV, despite dire predictions by the Community Broadcasters Association. If most digital LPs are this great an improvement over analog then LP station owners should embrace the switch to digital instead of resisting it.

First of all, can you not move the antenna outside? an antenna in the attic does nothing but hamper reception. An antenna that large is a waste inside. I'd seriously consider getting a mast and rotor. Or at least get a 5 ft. section of mast, erect it outside and go from there and see how much reception improves.

i can. i'm thinking about it. i've already looked at where i would put it, but i don't know how much expense and work it would be and haven't really researched that. i just know it was easy to lay that thing up in the attic and not attach or ground anything.

while just being inside blocks some signal, i won't gain much advantage height-wise. i'm already sitting at the very north base of a hill, maybe 75ft elevation 1/10mile south of me, double that 1/5 mile SE, towards KHOG). i'll go from being 70 feet down the hill to 60 feet down.

i already get most of what is available, and i'm not sure i would gain anything for all my trouble. i might get nothing but NBC out of it. i might get nothing. (i'm still not sure i won't be able to get NBC by re-aiming; i almost get it now without having tried yet.)

how much would it cost just to put it 20' off the ground (4' over my roof) attached to the house? and would it gain me much if that's still well below all the houses and trees, not to mention hills, around me on all sides?

I have the Digital Stream DTX9900 feeding a 32" Sony CRT; I have a 2-story home with a 25 yr old antenna in the attic; the antenna has a 40dB amplifier in line; I am 20 mi from the transmission towers in Philly.

I get all 10 of the local channels in digital that I get in analog. The digital is clear and crisp, every bit as good as the analog reception. You might find that statement strange, but the fact of the matter is for 6 of those 10 stations I get phenominal analog reception. The other 4 have interference and are snowy. The digital for them is clear and sharp as a tack so I'm very pleased.