I'm looking for reccomendations for a universal player to replace a Pioneer DV-563A. My primary issue with the DV-563 is the absence of a crossover setting. I'd like to stay under $200. I am willing to buy online and/or used. Some that I am considering including Oppo 970 or 980, Pioneer Elite DV-48 or DV-47Ai, Denon 1940, Yamaha S1700, and Harman Kardon DVD 47.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

I'm looking for reccomendations for a universal player to replace a Pioneer DV-563A. My primary issue with the DV-563 is the absence of a crossover setting. I'd like to stay under $200. I am willing to buy online and/or used. Some that I am considering including Oppo 970 or 980, Pioneer Elite DV-48 or DV-47Ai, Denon 1940, Yamaha S1700, and Harman Kardon DVD 47.I know that the OPPOs and the Denon do not have adjustable crossovers. I don't know about the others. You can easily download their manuals and check to see. Most players in that price range are not going to have adjustable crossovers. And many of them also have bass management issues, particularly with DVD-As.

I know that the OPPOs and the Denon do not have adjustable crossovers. I don't know about the others. You can easily download their manuals and check to see. Most players in that price range are not going to have adjustable crossovers. And many of them also have bass management issues, particularly with DVD-As.

I take it that it is not as simple as sending the digital signal to the processor and letting the processor take care of the management of the signal?

I haven't gotten into multichannel yet, but I figured that bass management was one of the purposes of the prepro, not the source player -- what have I missed in understanding this?

I take it that it is not as simple as sending the digital signal to the processor and letting the processor take care of the management of the signal?

I haven't gotten into multichannel yet, but I figured that bass management was one of the purposes of the prepro, not the source player -- what have I missed in understanding this?

The only time you'd use the player's BM is when using the analog outputs. I'm assuming this is the OP's intent. With the Oppos (the only ones I'm familiar with), you can send DVD-A and SACD over HDMI and have the AVR/Processor perform all BM/processing (which is inevitably more flexible regarding crossover settings).

I take it that it is not as simple as sending the digital signal to the processor and letting the processor take care of the management of the signal?

I haven't gotten into multichannel yet, but I figured that bass management was one of the purposes of the prepro, not the source player -- what have I missed in understanding this?DVD-A and SACD cannot be passed via S/PDIF. With non-HDMI capability, these formats must be decoded and processed at the player and passed to the receiver's multichannel analog inputs via multichannel analog connections. Most receivers are unable to understandably not able to apply any processing to their multichannel analog inputs.


With the Oppos (the only ones I'm familiar with), you can send DVD-A and SACD over HDMI and have the AVR/Processor perform all BM/processing (which is inevitably more flexible regarding crossover settings).Yes, but some of us are still living in a cave and must use the analog connections for our hirez. :(

The only time you'd use the player's BM is when using the analog outputs. I'm assuming this is the OP's intent. With the Oppos (the only ones I'm familiar with), you can send DVD-A and SACD over HDMI and have the AVR/Processor perform all BM/processing (which is inevitably more flexible regarding crossover settings).

My current pre-pro does not support HDMI nor can it do bass management on analog inputs. From what I understand, my DV-563A crossover is locked at 100Hz for DVD-A and 120Hz for SACD. I'd like something inexpensive that will give me a little more flexibility to integrate sub with my mains.

DVD-A and SACD cannot be passed via S/PDIF. With non-HDMI capability, these formats must be decoded and processed at the player and passed to the receiver's multichannel analog inputs via multichannel analog connections. Most receivers are unable to understandably not able to apply any processing to their multichannel analog inputs.


Thank you for the response. I was unaware of such problems. Would the now-discontinued Outlaw ICBM have done the trick? Then again, new, it cost the same as the OP's budget for source player. I'm surprised that the source players were not made to default to 80hz bass management. 120hz is an unacceptably high crossover point.

the Outlaw ICBM would be (have been?) perfect. hard to find, people who have them and still live in caves ;) won't let go of them anytime soon. your best bet would be the progressive ones buying high-end HDMI receivers (midrange HDMI receivers may not be able to process hirez PCM because of their puny processors, or have to downsample the hirez PCM to do BM)

I was unaware of such problems.It's not really a "problem". A couple of years back, other than a few proprietary digital interfaces such as iLink and Denonlink, multichannel analog connections were the only way to pass SACD and DVD-A. The "problem" is/was sparse, lacking, or incorrect bass and time management capabilities relative to those usually available in receivers. Higher end players often had the same bass and time management capabilities and flexibilities as those found in receivers. Universal players still come with the multichannel analog connections and CD/DD/DTS/DVD-A/SACD decoding and (albeit often limited) processing capabilities. I suspect that these connections will disappear altogether in a few years.


Would the now-discontinued Outlaw ICBM have done the trick?In spades. Their ability to much better bass manage the hirez formats is one reason they were very popular for a time, there.


Then again, new, it cost the same as the OP's budget for source player. I'm surprised that the source players were not made to default to 80hz bass management. 120hz is an unacceptably high crossover point.Some DO default to a fixed 80Hz crossover, but some DO utilize a higher fixed crossover than that. The OPPO 980 supposedly utilizes a fixed 80Hz crossover. My Denon2200 had a fixed 80Hz crossover.

the Outlaw ICBM would be (have been?) perfect. hard to find, people who have them and still live in caves ;) won't let go of them anytime soon.I know someone who "might" have one for sale. But I'll never tell! ;)

I know someone who "might" have one for sale. But I'll never tell! ;)

ooh, a progressive caveman :D


actually, with the Oppo's xover at 80Hz it isn't as big a problem as with the OP's Pioneer is it?

actually, with the Oppo's xover at 80Hz it isn't as big a problem as with the OP's Pioneer is it?I don't know where the Pioneer's fixed crossover is set.

The OPPO can't bass manage DVD-A tracks that are 96kHz and higher at all.

Some DO default to a fixed 80Hz crossover, but some DO utilize a higher fixed crossover than that. The OPPO 980 supposedly utilizes a fixed 80Hz crossover. My Denon2200 had a fixed 80Hz crossover.The Denon 2900 has a fixed 80Hz crossover for DVD-A and SACD. It does time management for DVD-A, but not SACD. I picked one up for about $250 on ebay a couple of years ago. Not sure what they are going for now.

Is this a trick question?

For those of us with PCM1791A, 1796, and 1792 chipped DSD one step decoding receivers and processors the only choice is the Oppo980 or the PioElite47 transports, no in-player DSD-PCM-analog conversions and signal degradation. Good LFE fronts or passive subs driven in parallel on each a must if you prefer Pure Direct :)

Is this a trick question?

For those of us with PCM1791A, 1796, and 1792 chipped DSD one step decoding receivers and processors the only choice is the Oppo980 or the PioElite47 transports, no in-player DSD-PCM-analog conversions and signal degradation. Good LFE fronts or passive subs driven in parallel on each a must if you prefer Pure Direct :)Maybe you should read the OP's initial post as well as some of the thread. The OP is interested in the players' processing capabilities as he will be utilizing multichannel analog connections from the player to his receiver. :)

The OPPO can't bass manage DVD-A tracks that are 96kHz and higher at all.

You might want to look at the beta firmware that just came out. The release notes claim this issue has been addressed.

So, I ended up grabbing a Harman Kardon DVD 47 on ebay for what I think was a good price. The manual does show configurable crossover setting.

You might want to look at the beta firmware that just came out. The release notes claim this issue has been addressed.My understanding is that it can't be fixed with firmware as it is a limitation of the chipset. If they HAVE fixed it, then it is most likely downmixing the tracks to a lower sampling rate. I don't have the player anymore, as I returned it upon discovering the bass management issue.

From the beta release of the new Oppo 980 firmware:

4. Bass Management for 96k Source

This firmware version optimizes the DSP (Digital Signal Processor) usage and adds bass management for audio sources that are encoded in 96kHz sample rate. When the front speakers are set to "Small" and subwoofer is set to "On", the DV-980H can redirect bass from the front channels to the LFE subwoofer channel. This improvement applies to DVD-Video and DVD-Audio discs. It is in addition to bass management already supported in previous firmware releases for sources with less than 96k sample rate (CD, DVD-Audio/Video and SACD).

From the beta release of the new Oppo 980 firmware:

4. Bass Management for 96k Source

This firmware version optimizes the DSP (Digital Signal Processor) usage and adds bass management for audio sources that are encoded in 96kHz sample rate. When the front speakers are set to "Small" and subwoofer is set to "On", the DV-980H can redirect bass from the front channels to the LFE subwoofer channel. This improvement applies to DVD-Video and DVD-Audio discs. It is in addition to bass management already supported in previous firmware releases for sources with less than 96k sample rate (CD, DVD-Audio/Video and SACD).
Yes, based upon the wording of this description from the beta release (http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/dv980h-firmware-07-0328.html), it appears to at least now allow bass management of the SMALL front channels for DVD-As with 96kHz and higher tracks. My understanding was that this flaw was a limitation of the processing capability of the chip, so whether this involves downmixing of the tracks to accomplish this, I do not know. If the center and surround channels, when set to SMALL, are still not bass managed with 96kHz+ tracks, it is still problematic for multichannel listening for those who would prefer to bass manage these channels.

I just put in a pre-order for the new Emotiva UMC-1 to replace my LMC-1. So, now I gotta ask, what's the best player under $250 that can output DVD-A/SACD over HDMI?

I just put in a pre-order for the new Emotiva UMC-1 to replace my LMC-1. So, now I gotta ask, what's the best player under $250 that can output DVD-A/SACD over HDMI?Probably the OPPO 980.

I don't know where the Pioneer's fixed crossover is set.

The OPPO can't bass manage DVD-A tracks that are 96kHz and higher at all.

Not true anymore, caveman. And yes it does that at 96khz rate. ;)

Agreed, and I have only recently installed the beta firmware, and haven't given it any time with DVD-As and SACDs. I need to find some time to sit down and do some listening and tweeking!

Not true anymore, caveman. And yes it does that at 96khz rate. ;)Maybe you should read the rest of the thread after that post. ;) The firmware became available 4/2/2008, btw, spaceman.

It still does not bass manage surround channel tracks that are 96kHz+, but at least they have tried to address the issue as best as possible. I am still curious as to whether the player is downmixing 96kHz+ front and center channel tracks in order to bass manage them.

Pose that question in the 980 section. Neuromancer will have answers.

Pose that question in the 980 section.What question? I see that you already asked whether the player was downmixing 96kHz+ tracks in order to bass manage them and that your question was answered by neuromancer. But was it answered correctly?

I already know that this "fix" only applies to the front and (apparently) center channels, though. 96kHz+ surround tracks are still not bass managed.

(Now quit making me read your posts!:p)

Wow - I missed this thread but as it turns out I couldn't really help, I do have just about everything here though.

I started with a Pio 563A player. I then bought an Outlaw ICBM to make up the lack of bass management. Best $200 I ever spent (was actually a $149 Bstock unit) as it performs flawlessly.

I then wanted DVI - but didn't want to lose my universal player, so I bought a Samsung HD841

I now have an Oppo 980 player as it's DAC's were supposed to be good, and the Samsungs DAC's were horrible so bascially I couldn't listen to Cd's on it at all (IMO no difference in the ANALOG outs of the two, and picture quality favours OPPO - and the Oppo was half the price, go figure :)). Oh, and yes, the Oppo DAC are "that good", fantastic for the price and I would not hesitate to recommend their players to anyone. One of the best values out there!

So, with the ICBM, I have no issues with the bass management everyone is talking about. For those that have it, you know what I mean.

Also, you guys are a bit off on the 563a - the cutoff is 120 hz for SACD's, and 200 hz (not 100) for DVD-Audio, which is why I shelled out the cash for the ICBM to begin with.

...on the 563a - the cutoff is 120 hz for SACD's, and 200 hz (not 100) for DVD-Audio....
That would explain my dissatisfaction with that player due to level changes playing the two formats. Thanks for that info...but the unit is history in favor of Oppo!

Thanks. I was just taking my info from here: http://www.slottweak.com/DV_563A/563review.htm. I couldn't find anything "official."

Are there any differences in how bass management is handled for DVD-A/SACD by a player like the Oppo when using HDMI vs. analog outs? For example, should I expect my pre-pro to handle BM when using HDMI? Sorry if I'm missing an obvious answer here.

Are there any differences in how bass management is handled for DVD-A/SACD by a player like the Oppo when using HDMI vs. analog outs? For example, should I expect my pre-pro to handle BM when using HDMI? Sorry if I'm missing an obvious answer here.You should not only expect your pre/pro to handle the BM, you WANT it to handle it. All you want the player to do is pass the bitstream to the pre/pro. That's sort of the whole point.

But, many of us are using receivers that do not allow management on the analog signals, so yes, you would want the player to do this. I would think you'd be good with that if the receiver had HDMI inputs, and expect it to that work. My Oppo 980 nicely handles both formats via the analog outputs.

Is the Oppo 980 the only Oppo player that can output SACD/DVD-A over HDMI? Does the issue mentioned earlier with 4.1/4.0 apply just to the 980 or to all Oppo players? How would I know if i had a 4.1/4.0 disk? Would it say somewhere on the disc case or insert? Any popular examples of 4.1/4.0 disks?

Thanks.

980 and 983 I believe. the 970 outputs over HDMI but converts DSD to 24/176.4 PCM

the only 4.0 disc i have is Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells SACD

Is the Oppo 980 the only Oppo player that can output SACD/DVD-A over HDMI? Does the issue mentioned earlier with 4.1/4.0 apply just to the 980 or to all Oppo players? How would I know if i had a 4.1/4.0 disk? Would it say somewhere on the disc case or insert? Any popular examples of 4.1/4.0 disks?

Thanks.

The Parsons quad mix of Dark Side of The Moon is where I noticed it. Most commerical DVD-A's are 5.1 or 5.0. As far as I know this bug is only an issue with the 980 and should be fixed in a future firmware release.

980 and 983 I believe. the 970 outputs over HDMI but converts DSD to 24/176.4 PCM

the only 4.0 disc i have is Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells SACD

The 980 is only the oppo unit that outputs DSD. All other oppo models including the 983 convert to LPCM.

Does the 4.1/4.0 bug show up on your Tubular Bells SACD? I have only seen the problem with DVD-A discs and not SACDs.

you're right -the 983 doesn't output DSD. hmph

My player is essentially the 970 though (motherboard)