Finished basement, good light control but most of the time a few background lights are on when watching the PJ. I picked the Panny ax pt200U due to the 2000 lumens. I've got the bug for 1080p but am not sure which one would best suit my needs. I watch a lot of HDTV sports and a lot of concert DVD's and an occasional movie. I'd be buying a Blu Ray player as well.

Thanks.

--JK

If you don't have a Blu-ray player or plan to buy one in the next few months, then wait. By summer we should see a drop in 1080p pricing.

I owned the PT-AX200U for a while, and felt that the picture quality was very good - especially considering the $1299 selling price. However, a few weeks ago, a good friend - after reading the rave reviews on Projectoreviews and projectorcentral - purchased the Epson Home Cinema 1080 UB. And I have to say, I did expect a large difference in picture quality with the Epson. Hell, the contrast on the AX200 is 6000:1 and the 1080 UB is 50,000:1. But what we saw on the Dalite screen after setting up the Epson, exceeded all my expectations. And I know this may sound corny, but with the Epson, it was like we were watching some of our favorite movies for the first time again. Unbelievably, details that were previously obscured by lesser projectors leapt forth from the screen in grand fashion. The deep blacks, the incredible sharpness, and the wonderfully saturated colors all came together to create the best picture I have ever experienced from a projection system. And would you believe, even my friend's wife noticed how much of a difference the new projector made - and let me tell you, she never notices anything! As such, I recommend that you read the reviews, and try to audition this amazing $3000 projector.

I have a Carada BW 126" screen and am just beginning to shop around for another PJ. As we've discussed before, there aren't a lot of stores to demo these products. Seems that the local hifi shops all have $10,000 projectors and they pretend there is no such thing as less expensive PJ's.

--JK

I am in the same boat. I sold my 61" RPTV and bought a Panny AX200. I am using a BOC and home made wooden frame. I don't have a black border yet and the front wall is not dark. The image seems kinda washed out. My friend's Optoma HD72 looked better.

I have the opportunity to get a 1080UB at a good price. I might have to go for that!!

I sold my 61" RPTV and bought a Panny AX200. The image seems kinda washed out.

Image seems to be washed out? Well, I never felt the image from my AX200 was washed out, except when there was a lot of ambient light in the room, and the material being viewed was dark. Are you using the cinema 1 picture mode? Is the auto iris on? Is your brightness and contrast adjusted with a set up DVD such as Video Essentials?


I have the opportunity to get a 1080UB at a good price.

I have been commercially installing and using projectors in my personal home theater for eight years, so I have experience with quite a few units. And maybe I wasn't clear enough in my previous post - the 1080 UB is the best under $6000 projector I have ever used.

Wow, being a AX100 owner, you are making me thinking of upgrading:) In terms in brightness, how did the two compare?

I owned the PT-AX200U for a while, and felt that the picture quality was very good - especially considering the $1299 selling price. However, a few weeks ago, a good friend - after reading the rave reviews on Projectoreviews and projectorcentral - purchased the Epson Home Cinema 1080 UB. And I have to say, I did expect a large difference in picture quality with the Epson. Hell, the contrast on the AX200 is 6000:1 and the 1080 UB is 50,000:1. But what we saw on the Dalite screen after setting up the Epson, exceeded all my expectations. And I know this may sound corny, but with the Epson, it was like we were watching some of our favorite movies for the first time again. Unbelievably, details that were previously obscured by lesser projectors leapt forth from the screen in grand fashion. The deep blacks, the incredible sharpness, and the wonderfully saturated colors all came together to create the best picture I have ever experienced from a projection system. And would you believe, even my friend's wife noticed how much of a difference the new projector made - and let me tell you, she never notices anything! As such, I recommend that you read the reviews, and try to audition this amazing $3000 projector.

The 1080UB has been out of stock at the Epson store for a while now! I am wondering if the convergence problems have not been fixed yet.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=63073679

The 1080UB has been out of stock at the Epson store for a while now! I am wondering if the convergence problems have not been fixed yet.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=63073679

The convergence on the unit I worked with was fantastic - I'd have to say it was as good as any other unit I have used (almost no pixel shift). And that 1080 UB was purchased from Newegg.com

Dibenzylacetone could you give any thoughts of the Epson vs the Panny in terms of brightness?

how about the epson 1080ub vs the sanyo z2000? i hear the sanyo has asharper picture

Dibenzylacetone could you give any thoughts of the Epson vs the Panny in terms of brightness?

Comparing the two in the best movie viewing modes, the AX200 is a bit brighter in cinema 1 mode (around 600 lumens) than the Epson in theater black 1 (around 480 lumens). But remember, the max lumens measurement doesn't tell the whole story. Even though the Epson has a lower lumen output, the picture has an amazing snap to it due to the higher contrast. And the picture detail with the Epson is amazing. At one point, we were watching The Matrix on HD DVD, and I couldn't believe how bad Laurence Fishburn's face looked - it was like the surface of the moon for goodness sake. We couldn't believe our eyes, because you could see new details in just about every scene in that movie. And believe me, I've seen this same HD DVD on the AX200 many times over. So the bottom line is, with the AX200, you say "man that's a really good picture." But with the 1080 UB you say "holy sh!t, look at that - I never saw that before!" In addition, if you want to watch some sports with the room lit up a bit, the high brightness modes on the Epson are just about as bright as those on the panasonic. And honestly, the Epson's picture quality in that mode seems to be better than the Panasonic, although both are nothing to rave about for movie viewing purposes

how about the epson 1080ub vs the sanyo z2000? i hear the sanyo has asharper picture
Yes, the Sanyo Z2000 is known to have one of the sharpest pictures out there, but the Epson 1080 UB is very sharp as well. And I bet you probably couldn't tell the difference between the two, unless you were looking at both projectors side by side.

Both the Sanyo Z2000 and the Epson 1080UB seem to be the front runners right now. What I am worried about is a really washed out pic (compared to my current Panny with 2000 lumens) when I have some soft lighting on in other areas of the basement.

One other question....will I notice an improved picture when watching a regular concert dvd (Pink Floyd Pulse, Roger Waters In the Flesh, Peter Gabriel Growing Up) on the Z2000 or the UB1080?

--JK

Both the Sanyo Z2000 and the Epson 1080UB seem to be the front runners right now. What I am worried about is a really washed out pic (compared to my current Panny with 2000 lumens) when I have some soft lighting on in other areas of the basement.
I wrote this a few posts back, maybe you missed it:
If you want to watch some sports with the room lit up a bit, the high brightness modes on the Epson are just about as bright as those on the panasonic. And honestly, the Epson's picture quality in that mode seems to be better than the Panasonic, although both are nothing to rave about for movie viewing purposes

One other question....will I notice an improved picture when watching a regular concert dvd (Pink Floyd Pulse, Roger Waters In the Flesh, Peter Gabriel Growing Up) on the Z2000 or the UB1080?
Yes, standard def DVD's look fantastic on the Epson. But of course, to get the best picture quality you should use a good upsamling DVD player like the Oppo or someting similar.

Thanks, so the Epson is getting the nod. I have a good Oppo now but would be upgrading to a Blu Ray when I buy the PJ. Any suggestions on a Blu Ray player?

Thanks again.

John

Thanks, so the Epson is getting the nod. I have a good Oppo now but would be upgrading to a Blu Ray when I buy the PJ. Any suggestions on a Blu Ray player?
Thanks again.

I have a Tosiba XA2 HD DVD, and I'm looking at different Blu Ray players also. The Pioneer Elite and the Denon are fantastic units, but they are expensive as hell. I think that I may wait for the next generation of players, as I was told that prices will drop, and performance will increase. Also, rumor has it that Oppo is going to release a Blu Ray player.

Since we are talking about the 1080UB, I have a question. At least temporarily, I am planning on just placing the projector on a 4 foot tall shelf (48 inches). My screen is 37" off the ground. The screen is 43 inches tall (76.5" x 43") The projector will be about 14' 7" away. Our seating position is at about 12 feet. Would the vertical shift capability built into the projector make this possible?

I have a Panasonic AX200 right now that I am thinking of returning and getting the 1080UB. I am able to do this with the AX200. I just don't want to do the ceiling mount right now. Just not up to it!!

Since we are talking about the 1080UB, I have a question. At least temporarily, I am planning on just placing the projector on a 4 foot tall shelf (48 inches). My screen is 37" off the ground. The screen is 43 inches tall (76.5" x 43") The projector will be about 14' 7" away. Our seating position is at about 12 feet. Would the vertical shift capability built into the projector make this possible?

The set up you describe is very similar to that used by us when the projector was first delivered. As such, the UB has plenty of lense shift to accomodate that placement.

I have a Panasonic AX200 right now that I am thinking of returning and getting the 1080UB. I am able to do this with the AX200.

Costco?

It has been noted in many articles that I have read as well as past posts on this forum that after 7-10 feet seating distances, humans cannot tell the difference between 1080 and 720 unless the contrast ratio is huge which there seems to be in this case. (I have the AX-200U myself) They say that it makes no sense to purchase a 1080 projector if you seating distance is that far. I have my seating at 16 and 20 feet back from a 120" screen.

Are you telling me that I would notice a huge difference going to the Epson at that distance? I am skeptical at best. I have the PS3 Bluray and Toshiba A-2 for upconverting SDVD and they are pretty sweet.

It has been noted in many articles that I have read as well as past posts on this forum that after 7-10 feet seating distances, humans cannot tell the difference between 1080 and 720 unless the contrast ratio is huge which there seems to be in this case. (I have the AX-200U myself) They say that it makes no sense to purchase a 1080 projector if you seating distance is that far. I have my seating at 16 and 20 feet back from a 120" screen.

Are you telling me that I would notice a huge difference going to the Epson at that distance? I am skeptical at best. I have the PS3 Bluray and Toshiba A-2 for upconverting SDVD and they are pretty sweet. where have you read this? i would like to know as well.everone i aked about the diference from 720p to the sanuo z2000 (1080 p) is huge

Costco?

Yes. I love Costco. I could not take a chance on the Panny without seeing it and Costco is the only store with worry free return policy without restocking fee. However I am not one of those abusers. I have bought thousands of $$ worth of stuff there in the past 3 years and have seldom returned anything.

That said, I used DVE to tune the brightness/Contrast/Color/Tint last night on the AX200. It is starting to look better. Also, even though I made a DIY 2.4:1 BOC screen, I don't have any masking and the rest of the screen wall is light grey in color. I plan on getting velvet and just stapling the screen wall with it. I don't want to spend too much money and professional looks are not needed right now ;)

The AX200 might grow on me and I might end up keeping it. I have until end of June to decide. I have the opportunity to buy the 1080UB at a very good price (through a friend) - that is why I am tempted.

I ordered a swatch sample of black velvet from syfabrics. If I like it, may be I will order a few yards and staple them to the screen wall. I saw some black velvet curtains in Walmart but they let in too much light! I guess I could try it.

Since we are talking about the 1080UB, I have a question. At least temporarily, I am planning on just placing the projector on a 4 foot tall shelf (48 inches). My screen is 37" off the ground. The screen is 43 inches tall (76.5" x 43") The projector will be about 14' 7" away. Our seating position is at about 12 feet. Would the vertical shift capability built into the projector make this possible?

I have a Panasonic AX200 right now that I am thinking of returning and getting the 1080UB. I am able to do this with the AX200. I just don't want to do the ceiling mount right now. Just not up to it!!

You could do something like I did, create a kind of "shelf" up high, and hang the projector from underneath. I did this in my room and it works great at around 7 feet above the floor, but the projector's throw is only around 9 feet. I was pretty much forced to go this route anyway, because the viewing distance is so short (my media room was a 10x10.5 bedroom), so I had to get the sofa as far back from the screen as possible, which meant no room behind the sofa for the projector.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/PatrickGSR94/My%20House/IMG_1567.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/PatrickGSR94/My%20House/IMG_1801.jpg

It has been noted in many articles that I have read as well as past posts on this forum that after 7-10 feet seating distances, humans cannot tell the difference between 1080 and 720 unless the contrast ratio is huge which there seems to be in this case. (I have the AX-200U myself) They say that it makes no sense to purchase a 1080 projector if you seating distance is that far. I have my seating at 16 and 20 feet back from a 120" screen.

Are you telling me that I would notice a huge difference going to the Epson at that distance? I am skeptical at best. I have the PS3 Bluray and Toshiba A-2 for upconverting SDVD and they are pretty sweet.

I remember an article that Home Theater Magazine did regarding this issue, and one of the biggest factors was screen size. Sitting at "normal" distances, with screen sizes up to about 65"-72", the human eye can't resolve the difference. However, if you sit close, or have a screen larger than 72" (a projector setup will certainly far exceed that), then the difference would be easily noticeable. For a projection setup, 1080p should shine. Again, not that 720p won't look great, but you will certainly be able to see the difference.

I'll see if I can find a link to the article, and post it up.

EDIT: found it - http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/0105viewvrez/

EDIT2: an earlier test of the viewing distance/resolution issue using plasmas- http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/805gearworks/

Again, not that 720p won't look great, but you will certainly be able to see the difference.



This is of course completely dependent on the source. There are very few sources that will show significant improvement. The OP stated he watched Sports (which is never shown on anything higher than 720p), and DVDs. For his uses I think 1080p PJ would be overkill. The only real 1080 sources out there are HD DVD and Blu-ray and that really depends on the transfer of the title you happen to be watching. Right now there is just very little true 1080 content. Depending on what PJ he ends up with he very well might get a better 720 picture with improved contrast, brightness, whatever. But as far as getting a lower priced 1080 PJ, I just don't think it is necessary at this time (IMO). I would wait a few seasons and watch the prices fall.

You could do something like I did, create a kind of "shelf" up high, and hang the projector from underneath. I did this in my room and it works great at around 7 feet above the floor, but the projector's throw is only around 9 feet. I was pretty much forced to go this route anyway, because the viewing distance is so short (my media room was a 10x10.5 bedroom), so I had to get the sofa as far back from the screen as possible, which meant no room behind the sofa for the projector.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/PatrickGSR94/My%20House/IMG_1567.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/PatrickGSR94/My%20House/IMG_1801.jpg

That's a neat setup. Space is not my problem. My basement extends back another 25 feet from where I want to put the projector. I just don't want to make holes in the ceiling to mount the projector. Also, I don't have to worry about running HDMI cables through the wall, if I just set the projector on a cabinet behind the couch (seating position). I saw a $89 storage cabinet that was 48" high in Walmart yesterday. It is black and has a door with shelves in it. I thought I could put it behind the sofa and use the shelves for storing media and such. Then I could run the HDMI cable on the carpet from the projector to my components near the screen. I could through a rug in the front of the seating position so that no one trips over the HDMI cable.

This is of course completely dependent on the source. There are very few sources that will show significant improvement. The OP stated he watched Sports (which is never shown on anything higher than 720p), and DVDs. For his uses I think 1080p PJ would be overkill. The only real 1080 sources out there are HD DVD and Blu-ray and that really depends on the transfer of the title you happen to be watching. Right now there is just very little true 1080 content. Depending on what PJ he ends up with he very well might get a better 720 picture with improved contrast, brightness, whatever. But as far as getting a lower priced 1080 PJ, I just don't think it is necessary at this time (IMO). I would wait a few seasons and watch the prices fall.


THANK YOU. That is what I was looking for. I rarely watch movies and mostly watch concert dvd's (not in blu ray format yet) and sports on TV. I wanted to jump into a 1080 thinking it would be better "just because" but now I can put the 3K towards something else.

Thanks for the honesty and feedback!

--JK

I feel that people contributing to this thread are now focusing too much on the merits of 1080 vs. 720 display resolution. I owned the AX200U, and have at least 75 hours of experience with different Epson 1080 UB's. And the bottom line is, the Panasonic has a wonderful picture quality that many people could live happily ever after with - but the Epson 1080 UB offers the user a giant step forward in picture quality that cannot be ignored.

This is of course completely dependent on the source. There are very few sources that will show significant improvement The OP stated he watched Sports (which is never shown on anything higher than 720p), and DVDs. For his uses I think 1080p PJ would be overkill.
I have used my Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD player with many different projectors. Like other high definition players, the output resolution on the Toshiba can be switched between 720p, 1080i and 1080p (60 & 24 fps). Using the Toshiba with many different projectors with 720 or 1080 resolution, it's obvious to me and other enthusiasts that the picture quality changes very little when switching from 720 to 1080. I mean, the change is somewhat discernable, but it is far from a night and day difference. As such, it is erroneous to claim that one projector will not look better than another because the input resolution is limited to 720p. So again, I'll say that the Epson offers vastly superior picture quality in comparison to the Panasonic - regardless of the input resolution. In addition, I am not familiar with sports broadcasts in other states, but in NY there a many broadcast in 1080i.
Depending on what PJ he ends up with he very well might get a better 720 picture with improved contrast, brightness, whatever. But as far as getting a lower priced 1080 PJ, I just don't think it is necessary at this time (IMO).
Well, how about a somewhat higher priced 1080 projector with better contrast, better black level, better shadow detail, superior sharpness, better color saturation, superior image accuracy, and better color balance - like the Epson

Di, I'm not arguing with you at all. Hell, you are pretty close to talking me into upgrading to the Epson. You talk about what it does for your HD DVD player. The OP isn't using any 1080 sources. The upgrade on a resolution basis is completely useless. Sure there will be improved contrast, blacks, etc but the add'l resolution does nothing without the necessary HD sources. The OP said nothing about improving his color saturation or shadow detail, he just wanted to know if upgrading to a 1080p PJ would help improve resolution. With the sources he is using it won't.

I think every NON smooth screen pj will look sharper than every one with smooth screen.

Instead of 1080 u can try a 720 single chip DLP also for sharper image.

It has been noted in many articles that I have read as well as past posts on this forum that after 7-10 feet seating distances, humans cannot tell the difference between 1080 and 720 unless the contrast ratio is huge which there seems to be in this case. (I have the AX-200U myself) They say that it makes no sense to purchase a 1080 projector if you seating distance is that far. I have my seating at 16 and 20 feet back from a 120" screen.

Are you telling me that I would notice a huge difference going to the Epson at that distance? I am skeptical at best. I have the PS3 Bluray and Toshiba A-2 for upconverting SDVD and they are pretty sweet.

The fiance and I were at Ultimate Electronics this weekend looking at projectors and other various stuff for our HT and while we were in the projector room, she looked at one and said, "that's not HD". I don't recall the brand, but the projector/screen next to it was the 1080UB to which she said, "I can't see the pixels".

The one she thought wasn't HD was a 720p and were were about 8 feet away from the 92" screen (both screens were 92"). That sold her on the $3,000 expense of the 1080UB and she thinks "a TV is a TV".

From what we both saw, there was a HUGE difference in resolution at 8'-10' on a 92" screen.

Di, I'm not arguing with you at all. Hell, you are pretty close to talking me into upgrading to the Epson. You talk about what it does for your HD DVD player. The OP isn't using any 1080 sources. The upgrade on a resolution basis is completely useless. Sure there will be improved contrast, blacks, etc but the add'l resolution does nothing without the necessary HD sources. The OP said nothing about improving his color saturation or shadow detail, he just wanted to know if upgrading to a 1080p PJ would help improve resolution. With the sources he is using it won't.

I'm not arguing either bro, I'm just having a little fun debating. But anyway, don't you think that ultimately these people are not just looking for more resolution (in and of itself). I think it's a sure bet, that someone with an AX200U who's looking to upgrade really wants better picture quality. And in the grand scheme of things, I'm just relaying my experience with the Epson as an example of a "sure" upgrade path. So in that context, if we start a pissing contest about the merits of the increased resolution, I think it distracts people, instead of helping them reach their ultimate goal.

I think every NON smooth screen pj will look sharper than every one with smooth screen..
The smooth screen feature may cause a very slight reduction in sharpness, but you cannot say that an AX200U does not have a sharp image in comparison to most other projectors in its class. Have you had any direct experience A/B'ing this model against another on the same screen with the same material, to help back up your claim?
Instead of 1080 u can try a 720 single chip DLP also for sharper image.

Sharper Image - Isn't that a store or something?

So are there other PJ's to consider for under 3K and 1080i? I see the Sanyo and Epson 1080 UB mentioned a lot but how do they compare to the Panny 2000U?

--JK

So are there other PJ's to consider for under 3K and 1080i? I see the Sanyo and Epson 1080 UB mentioned a lot but how do they compare to the Panny 2000U? JK

Look here and scroll down to the 1080 projector reviews:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/home.cfm

Another fantastic resource:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/Best1080pProjectors032008/index.php

Are you using the cinema 1 picture mode?

I don't know about Panasonic Projectors, but in my Panasonic HTIB the two Cinema modes completely ruin the blacks, so I leave it in "Normal".

I don't know about Panasonic Projectors, but in my Panasonic HTIB the two Cinema modes completely ruin the blacks, so I leave it in "Normal".

Well, as you know, the two Panasonic products that you're comparing are completely different devices. But in respect to the AX200U, it is widely accepted by users that cinema 1 mode offers the most accurate picture.

Look here and scroll down to the 1080 projector reviews:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/home.cfm

Another fantastic resource:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/Best1080pProjectors032008/index.php

So you have no personal experience or comment on the Panny AE2000U? ProjectorCentral certainly gave it a good review and said it's almost a "toss up" between that and the 1080 UB. Just curious. I'm sure I'd be happy with either one of them.

So you have no personal experience or comment on the Panny AE2000U? ProjectorCentral certainly gave it a good review and said it's almost a "toss up" between that and the 1080 UB. Just curious. I'm sure I'd be happy with either one of them.

Well, as with any piece of equipment, personal preferences will play a large role in determining which unit to buy. As an example, when Evan Powell wrote his review of the 1080 UB on projectorcentral, he didn't seem to be particularly enamored with the unit - although he did give it one of the few 5 star ratings on his site. However, when reading his review, you need to acknowledge Evan's preference for a more film-like presentation of movies. As such, the Epson's sharpness worked against it in the comparison with the Panasonic AE2000U. On the other hand, Art from projectorreviews couldn't contain his enthusiasm in his review of the Epson 1080 UB. And this isn't surprising, considering that Art highly values projector sharpness, along with a unit's ability to put out a lot of quality lumens in high brightness mode.
And if you read further into Art's review of the 1080 UB - which I feel was a much more thorough review - he proclaims that the Epson had superior contrast, black level, shadow detail, etc, in comparison with the Panasonic. Even more, Art insisted that it was hard to tell the difference between his $6000 reference JVC projector, and the Epson. So I'd have to say, if you value sharpness, deep blacks, high contrast and picture detail (to name a few), you will probably prefer the Epson over the Panasonic. If however, you value a more film-like presentation, the Panasonic may get the nod. In addition, the Panasonic has a built-in stretch mode for use with an anamorphic lens, whereas the Epson requires a separate video scaler for this purpose. Even worse for some individuals, is the fact that the Epson does not have the ability to zoom out the black bars on high definition content (this was a deal breaker for a person I knew, who was interested in the 1080 UB). And last but not least, I have to agree that an individual could easily be happy with either one of these projectors, as they are so much better than anything available to an average enthusiast just two years ago.