This is a new thread for our topic:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13728644
"will THX revise their speaker floorplan?"

There is a bit of content in the previous thread please have a read if this topic is of some intrest to you. Last 2 posts are....

I am going to open a new thread when I have the time. I would like to know how to remove my bias? I have stated a few times I am open.

My head is not "exploding":) I am trying to learn something (I don't think you are even open to what I am trying to say, by the tone of your responses)

I think we are at odds over the definition of "well controlled". I seem to like "well controlled" can happen in my theater (and thus give me real ground to stand on when I recommend high def audio) where specific equipment and media come into play.

I would like to "prove" that DTS-Core and lossless sound better in MY theater than DD and not have my method or bias come into question. I have asked 3 times now for a proper method , as any blind tests I have preformed in the past with others has been dismissed, and any of my casual observations are not formal enough. I don't want to do what I see as proper as I may be missing something by the way I have been dismissed.

BTW: I am more than open to the fact there there is some DVD DD track that is better than it's PCM Blu-ray track (this does not blow my mind). This is a question of real world results that are fair and reproducible.

I don't want to keep recommending Blu-ray high bitrate audio if is all in my head or limited to disks with very poor DD tracks :) I don't recomend power conditioners and monster cable to my friends and don't want to start on something with no real world benefit.

Have Fun!

Human fallibility is not exactly a secret, though I guess people need lots of reminding: check out this book and all the other titles under 'customers also bought'.


http://www.amazon.com/Inevitable-Illusions-Mistakes-Reason-Minds/dp/047115962X

Speaking of fallibility it was wrong of me to decide you were a troll, based on such a tiny sample of evidence :o

May be a good idea just to leave off the post by krab above. Doesn't really have anything to do with the title of your new thread.

I am underwhelmed by your response, when I started my conversation with you I felt you were someone to reason with, perhaps I was wrong. You are not even reading the words I am writing and have not responed to the issues at hand. I understand what my experience (or yours) is not the real "truth"

You are not helping people understand anything (other than the fact that anything is possible, wow that is big a shocker) related to audio. You are just preaching to me, and have provide only your opinion on the issue, please point me to your facts about my theater (or any other equipment) at any time.

I don't like the word "theory" when it comes to my setup :) Yes I am defending my point as valid and am willing to up the bar on my method to "prove" it. I don't want to give bad advice :)

You sir are not open to a single thing I have said (at least not that you have indicated) and outright dismiss what I have said. Read the posts again you can see what I am trying to say. I didn't think I would have to connect the dots of my logic for you, but if you insist I will.

I am glad you have a fan. I don't want this thread to be a flame war. Perhaps you won't respond?

Have Fun :)

This is a continuation of the old thead not a new topic in anyway. What sould I change the topic do?

Hi,

Here's a series of exchanges in which the subject of the rigor of A/B comparison testing was discussed. I believe it somewhat echos your prior discussions which touch on balancing practical matters of hobbyists with the rigor of true scientific methods.

As you will see, my testing environment appears to be more challenging to conducting A/B comparisons than yours.

Although I can't say the discussion resulted in a practical solution to my dilemma, nevertheless you might still be able to extract a few useful bits of information.

Work on Lossless vs Lossy Posting #181. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13565267&postcount=181)

I would suggest following the discussion from posting #181 to #192, then go to #199.

Larry

Hi,

In following up, as I point out in posting #195 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13583273&postcount=195) of the thread I referenced earlier, I believe this whole issue of testing lossy versus lossless is purely an academic exercise if someone like yourself already has a lossy setup. Other than satisfying scientific curiosity, why bother going through the effort?

However, for those of us who do not have lossless setups the testing has some practical significance. That is the testing, if not too unwieldy, might determine whether or not we are able to perceive a difference sufficient to warrant an expensive upgrade.

I believe, for those of us without lossless setups, the testing should be between 640 kbps Dolby Digital and lossless, and between 1.5 Mbps DTS and lossless. The reason for testing these lossy codecs is that even without a lossless setup, merely moving to HD DVDs or Blu-ray discs immediately upgrades our legacy setups to 640 kbps DD from 384 and 480 kbps, or to 1.5 Mbps DTS from 768 kbps DTS. Therefore, comparing say 384 kbps DD to lossless would not be the relevant test.

I also personally believe that ideally the testing should be done using the actual room, equipment and speakers where the upgrade would take place, rather than using high quality headphones, because that recreates the actual situation in question. Whereas using headphones on downmixed two channel content stands a better chance of discriminating audio differences, to me they would be irrelevant in determining whether a potential upgrade would yield the same perceived benefit, in my home theater.

In my case I might want to start critical listening comparisons with music, because that is more revealing, but nevertheless its quite likely that it may be impossible to perceive differences when using typical movie content. As mostly a movie enthusiast, this would have a strong influence on whether, or not I elected to upgrade.

Larry

Thanks for the input :) I will have a read on the threads.

One issue seems to be killing me is that fact that there is no suitable demo to evaluate the bitrate issues? Everyone seems to wave their hands and say it is not fair to compare tracks on blu-ray. It has even been asserted that DTS-Core v. DTS-MA is not a proper test.

Why bother with this? Can't quite tell you. It seems I am told everthing but the bitrate is what is important with DD and DTS even at the min rates and that I am a donkey for suggesting it. Saying Blu-rays sound better then DVD's because there is more info (something that seem obvious to me) gets me a negative reaction that I just didn't expect. When I started on this topic I perhaps was a bit focused on the bit-rate issue but I really don't like being told that I am wrong but that there is no test that I can on my system.

Calling this a debate is just weird. Lets figure out some correct media and be done with the debate:) Either my DVDs are going to sound alot better after my bias is gone or bitrates really do matter.

Have Fun!

Any progress on this test?