I have a large room (30'x20') with carget and a cathederal ceiling. I'd like to add a sub to my existing system, which includes some old Marantz LS-20's with 15" woofers. I just purchased a Marantz SR8001 receiver and a Paradigm CC-590 center . I have a budget of around $600 (with some flexibility) and open to purchasing a used quality sub. The Marantz LS-20's will be replaced with some Paradigm Studio Reference 100's in the next year.

I'm wondering if a 12" sub like the Hsu VTF-3 MK3 or Paradigm PS-1200 would be big enough for a room that size? Or would a 15" sub would be best? eBay has good deals on the Velodyne DLS5000R for around $550, though I'm not sure how good that sub is?

Can anybody recommend any other subs to consider? Can I get away with a good 12"? I'm not an audiophile and don't have a trained ear to identify the nuances.

Thanks for any advice that you can provide.

Quantity two Parts Express 15" Dayton Audio subs... Even if you have to assemble them..

That's a lot of room volume, you really have to worry about meeting demand before going deep and hard here.

I have a large room (30'x20') with carget and a cathederal ceiling. I'd like to add a sub to my existing system, which includes some old Marantz LS-20's with 15" woofers. I just purchased a Marantz SR8001 receiver and a Paradigm CC-590 center . I have a budget of around $600 (with some flexibility) and open to purchasing a used quality sub. The Marantz LS-20's will be replaced with some Paradigm Studio Reference 100's in the next year.

I'm wondering if a 12" sub like the Hsu VTF-3 MK3 or Paradigm PS-1200 would be big enough for a room that size? Or would a 15" sub would be best? eBay has good deals on the Velodyne DLS5000R for around $550, though I'm not sure how good that sub is?

Can anybody recommend any other subs to consider? Can I get away with a good 12"? I'm not an audiophile and don't have a trained ear to identify the nuances.

Thanks for any advice that you can provide.

The Velodyne DLS 5000 may be able to fill a room your size, however, it does not have much response in the octave from 12.5-25Hz. Some people consider that octave to be critical, others are satisfied with the significant output and suprisingly good sound quality of the DLS 5000.

If you want to get everything, you just might want to save up about another $100, because there are more choices at the $700 price point, for example the Ed A5-350 which should at least match the DLS 5000 from 25Hz on up, and just kill it from 25Hz on down.

PS Some people are having amp problems with the A5-350. Ed is working on it and it should be fixed shortly. These things happen.

There are other choices including the AV123 MFW-15, and one or two models from Epik.

Thanks for all the advice. Given the room dimensions, would you say that a "12" sub is out of the question, if I want good bass in the room?

yes. larger cone moves more air and while there are some nicer 12inch models...they would not come close to being sufficient for the size room your talking about.

If you can save up a little, i would really invest in an eD A7s-450 or one of Epik's offerings...i own two of eD's with a room worse than your and can say they give you everything you need and more...output is great!

from what it sounds like...your system is no slouch and it would be in your interest to wait just a bit for that little extra which will really pay off in the long run. juts my thoughts. hope this helps!

Ben

The av123 MFW-15 might fit the bill in your current budget. But I would agree that to get enough sub for this massive room, saving up a few hundred more may be the best choice. Otherwise, maybe a plan to live with a little less bass for now and save up for a second matching sub down the road to finish it off and get to where you need to be.

I"d also look into the MFW-15 with your budget. Like others have said it may or may not be enough depending on your listening preferences but it's probably the best choice at your current budget.

Get one of AV123's B-stock MFW-15's. Cheaper than regular pricing and not too bad of a wait.

Get one of AV123's B-stock MFW-15's. Cheaper than regular pricing and not too bad of a wait.

What would constitute a AV123 sub qualifying as B-stock?

Though I've never heard of this company until recently, there appears to be a lot of support for their products. I keep coming across this name and model.

If you were to choose between the AV123 MFW-15 or the eD A7s-450, which would you go with?

What would constitute a AV123 sub qualifying as B-stock?

The B-stock will refer primarily to returned merchandise or units with cosmetic irregularities (such as box/finish scratched, etc). Functionally, they should be fine.

The following is contained in a letter from Mark Schifter, whom I believe is president or ceo of AV123:

Allow me to explain what constitutes a B Stock loudspeaker in this context… When the veneer is applied with look for any sign of cracks… IF we find one (or some) we stop the cracking by using a sharp blade and “operate” (if you will) on this area. We carefully fill and seal (by hand) all of these areas… Theses speakers are gently loved and “healed” (as they like to call it down here) and then the process of finishing continues… Will these healed areas show up – YES, in some cases, but they will be as polished and preened as possible. B Stock means less than A ---- but in my case --- not much less :)

The following is contained in a letter from Mark Schifter, whom I believe is president or ceo of AV123:

Allow me to explain what constitutes a B Stock loudspeaker in this context… When the veneer is applied with look for any sign of cracks… IF we find one (or some) we stop the cracking by using a sharp blade and “operate” (if you will) on this area. We carefully fill and seal (by hand) all of these areas… Theses speakers are gently loved and “healed” (as they like to call it down here) and then the process of finishing continues… Will these healed areas show up – YES, in some cases, but they will be as polished and preened as possible. B Stock means less than A ---- but in my case --- not much less :)


Thanks for digging up that clarification. It sounds right to me, as I doubt that company would sell a B-stock product that they new was techically sub-standard to what they normally produce.

Now the challenge is getting your hands on a B-stock.

Thanks for digging up that clarification. It sounds right to me, as I doubt that company would sell a B-stock product that they new was techically sub-standard to what they normally produce.

Now the challenge is getting your hands on a B-stock.

Check out this link for info on B-stock and availability.

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=31833

I am a current user of a mfw-15 in a 14x20 with vaulted ceilings and the room opens up to a kitchen and nook area the the mfw-15 will fill the room and then some. Placement can be tricky do to vaulted ceilings....but lets just say that I have no problem shaking the house. I have been very pleased with the output as well as the music capabilities of the unit. If you want a little more oomph to pressurize the room, you could always go for 2 of them. Not sure what price b-stock is, but I thought they had a deal you could do 2 for right around a grand.

I am a current user of a mfw-15 in a 14x20 with vaulted ceilings and the room opens up to a kitchen and nook area the the mfw-15 will fill the room and then some. Placement can be tricky do to vaulted ceilings....but lets just say that I have no problem shaking the house. I have been very pleased with the output as well as the music capabilities of the unit. If you want a little more oomph to pressurize the room, you could always go for 2 of them. Not sure what price b-stock is, but I thought they had a deal you could do 2 for right around a grand.

Thanks for the input. If its providing ooomph for your room, it should be enough for me. Chances are I won't be in this house in a few years and I'm thinking that an eD A7S-450 might do well in my current room, but would probably be too much for what I would ultimately end up living in.

Is the performance gain for the extra $175 from the eD A7S-450 worth it, compared to the performance of the MFW-15? I've wondered if I should save an extra $175 for the eD.

Thanks for the input. If its providing ooomph for your room, it should be enough for me. Chances are I won't be in this house in a few years and I'm thinking that an eD A7S-450 might do well in my current room, but would probably be too much for what I would ultimately end up living in.

Is the performance gain for the extra $175 from the eD A7S-450 worth it, compared to the performance of the MFW-15? I've wondered if I should save an extra $175 for the eD.

I am not sure on the ED sub, as I have not heard one, but if you were to spend the extra money for the ED.....for a little more you could do two mfw-15 which would be more than enough :) I don't think you could go wrong with either option as I am sure the ED is more than a worthy sub around your budget as well as offerings from Epik. I say pick one and enjoy....down the road if you need more upgrade to a bigger one of add another. hope this helps.

I bought a pair of b-stock x-ls bookshelf speakers from av123 a couple of months ago and honestly they don't have anything wrong with them at all. They must have been a return because the finish is flawless. My b-stock experience with av123 was great.

id say the A7s-450 is worth the extra money...i own two (equvalent) and well they are awesome...im filling a ridiculously large vaulted area with strong deep bass.

id say you wouldnt regret the extra dough. Though i am sure you would be happy with either sub!! really cant go wrong...

*though i will say, if you listen to any mousic what so ever, the eD will rock your world.

I don't think you could go wrong with either option as I am sure the ED is more than a worthy sub around your budget as well as offerings from Epik. I say pick one and enjoy....down the road if you need more upgrade to a bigger one of add another. hope this helps.

I hadn't really looked into the Epik offerings until now. Between the Epik Knight, MFW-15, and the eD A5-350, is there one that stands out in the group? The Epik sub comes with a $170 shipping charge. Ouch.

Thanks!