Hey guys, i always was interested in audio products, here in Argentina we dont have too much money and diferents brands to test, i just want to know what ppl use to say THIS AMP is better than THIS AMP. :D

dont know if understand what im saying, but i just dont undertstand very well how compare 2 diferents amps.

For example one Ultra High End amplifier 100Watts Mono can cost 1500USD, and an chinese one of 250Watts can cost the 3rd part, and i think that 1 Watt is 1 Watt in both amps, and maybe the chinese one will move better the speakers than the 100Watts One.....

well, i just try to figure what i need to know to say " this amp is better than this" :)
Regards

i just try to figure what i need to know to say " this amp is better than this"

There are only four parameters that define everything that matters with audio reproduction - frequency response, noise, distortion, and time-based errors. There's a much more complete explanation here:

www.ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html

--Ethan

It's complicated, but it's not too complicated. The first question you've got to answer is, what speakers will you be driving with this amp? What do their specs say about:
--recommended amplifier power
--impedance (nominal and minimum)
--sensitivity
Also, how large is the room you'll be playing them in, and how loud do you play them?

As for amps, wattage alone doesn't mean anything. 100 watts into what? A full amp spec reads something like, "100 watts into 8 ohms, from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with no more than 0.1% THD (total harmonic distortion)." Ideally, your amp should specify its power output at both 8 ohms and 4 ohms. (4 ohms should be higher.) That information, plus your speaker specs, will tell you a lot about whether this particular amp is right for your speakers.

Thanks guys, more info will be apprecieted :)

The high end measures audio quality by price.

The high end measures audio quality by price.

Well its what i think, i found some amps with very high price and i cant beliave it.

I think that 1watt with normal Distorsion will need the same as 1watt of another chep eaquipment with same distorsion, or at least similar.

The main differences between different designs at the same wattage are:
1) noise floor -- good quality pre-amps don't add cruft; cheap pre-amps add cruft
2) frequency response -- good quality design preserves the signal; cheap designs distort the signal
3) durability -- good quality designs will last 10 years or more; cheap designs will blow after a few years

Comparing watts is not really useful, unless you ONLY want LOUD and don't care whether it's loud and wrong. For sound quality, you want as low a THD measurement and as low a noise floor measurement as possible (which translates to as high a S/N measurement as possible).

Note that the cheap designs typically don't publish the actual measurements -- and when they do, those measurements may not actually correspond to the real equipment! Meanwhile, the professional side of the business typically publish "guaranteed" specs -- what you get may be better than what's published, but is guaranteed to not be worse. (Unless you see the word "typ" meaning "typical" which means there may be some variation up or down)

The general, uneducated public think if something is more expensive then it is the best. A Bianchi carbon fiber triathlon bicycle is 6 G's, so it is one of the best. A Diablo is 250 G's... you get my point. But many things are subjective. A quality amp will be built with quality parts. The power supply will be well built, on paper the slew rate and damping factor will reveal what the amp is made of. Not all watts are created equal. Things such as 10 year warranties, or more and positive reviews in AV magazines also demonstrate confidence.

on paper the slew rate and damping factor will reveal what the amp is made of.

Not necessarily. There are good ways and bad ways to get high slew rate and damping factor. It's good to know what slew rate and damping factor mean and how much are actually enough so you don't fall victim to specmanship.

and positive reviews in AV magazines also demonstrate confidence.

I don't consider this to be a good way to shop in general. Mags are basically ads with more words and good pictures, please be careful with your pocket book. An AMP review "might" point out some serious issue (bad build quality) and if you are lucky some good some usable bench numbers but other that this it is mostly hype.

Have Fun!

Not necessarily. There are good ways and bad ways to get high slew rate and damping factor. It's good to know what slew rate and damping factor mean and how much are actually enough so you don't fall victim to specmanship.

Wisely stated Bob. I would say on paper things may appear more accurate then they really are.

I don't consider this to be a good way to shop in general. Mags are basically ads with more words and good pictures, please be careful with your pocket book. An AMP review "might" point out some serious issue (bad build quality) and if you are lucky some good some usable bench numbers but other that this it is mostly hype.

Have Fun!

Wisely said Kmannth. If reviews are unbiased and objective verses the subjective, (consumer reports can be trusted in most cases, but it is rare to see higher-end CE there) you can have confidence. If the technical elements are agreed upon by more then one pro user then it MAY be gospel.

Ethan, when you speak i listen. As soon as i get the house with room for a dedicated listening room- your on the top of my phone list. btw- did you read this ;^)
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/accessory-reviews/power-conditioners/nordost-thor-power-distribution-center.html
db
PS: read the comment section as well.


There are only four parameters that define everything that matters with audio reproduction - frequency response, noise, distortion, and time-based errors. There's a much more complete explanation here:

www.ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html

--Ethan

DAB: that's hilarious! "resonant control" for the case of a power strip, indeed.

Maybe they should mention that the $50 Tipp-Lite IsoBar series also puts filters between outlets (and the mains)...

And while it's known that insufficient power can cause compressed dynamics, no passive device can suddenly make the same main circuit deliver more power. Audiofoolery of the highest degree.

read the comment section as well.

Heh, that was the only part worth reading. :D

The general, uneducated public think if something is more expensive then it is the best. A Bianchi carbon fiber triathlon bicycle is 6 G's, so it is one of the best. A Diablo is 250 G's... you get my point. But many things are subjective. A quality amp will be built with quality parts. The power supply will be well built, on paper the slew rate and damping factor will reveal what the amp is made of. Not all watts are created equal. Things such as 10 year warranties, or more and positive reviews in AV magazines also demonstrate confidence.

But I'm not sure anybody is arguing that the bike or the car aren't one of the best. For all I know, they are. I doubt they are good because they are expensive. They are most likely expensive because they are good.

But I can tell you that price certainly doesn't indicate quality or performance in audio gear. Spending a lot doesn't necessarily get you an improvement in anything. Sometimes it does the opposite.

A 10 year warranty in audio gear would indicate very fat manufacturer's margins to me. It wouldn't necessarily say anything about quality at all. I'm not suggesting that a unit with a 10 year warranty isn't good or that it isn't better than another unit that has a shorter warranty. I'm just saying that length of warranty and price aren't good indicators of either performance or reliability in the audio component world.

Many audiophiles buy expensive tube amplifiers because their harmonic distortion is more "musical" than transistor amplifiers. But the question they should be asking themselves is, "why exactly am I spending a boatload of money to listen to harmonic distortion?" :D

Regards,
Terry

But I'm not sure anybody is arguing that the bike or the car aren't one of the best. For all I know, they are. I doubt they are good because they are expensive. They are most likely expensive because they are good.

But I can tell you that price certainly doesn't indicate quality or performance in audio gear. Spending a lot doesn't necessarily get you an improvement in anything. Sometimes it does the opposite.

A 10 year warranty in audio gear would indicate very fat manufacturer's margins to me. It wouldn't necessarily say anything about quality at all. I'm not suggesting that a unit with a 10 year warranty isn't good or that it isn't better than another unit that has a shorter warranty. I'm just saying that length of warranty and price aren't good indicators of either performance or reliability in the audio component world.

But appearance and brand loyality is, lol.:D

"why exactly am I spending a boatload of money to listen to harmonic distortion?" :D

No kidding. I keep thinking of the huge profits I could make selling an inline distortion device you put between a power amp and a speaker. One 50-cent diode plus one 50-cent resistor plus $1.50 for wire = $500 product. :eek:

Aw shucks, these clowns beat me to it:

http://www.bybeetech.com/products.asp

:D :D :D

--Ethan

As I mentioned in the speaker thread, trying to tell how an audio component sounds based on specs is like trying to tell how a blind date will look based on measurements.

As I mentioned in the speaker thread, trying to tell how an audio component sounds based on specs is like trying to tell how a blind date will look based on measurements.

Yet another logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule) offered up by our dear PULLIAMM.

As I mentioned in the speaker thread, trying to tell how an audio component sounds based on specs is like trying to tell how a blind date will look based on measurements.

Which reminds me. Why do girls that sound REALLY cute over the phone end up being really overweight in person? Just another cosmic question that boggles the mind :rolleyes:

trying to tell how an audio component sounds based on specs is like trying to tell how a blind date will look based on measurements.

Yes and No. If all spec'd parameters are sufficient to assure "transparency," then the device will have no sound of its own anyway. But I do agree that with some types of "audiophile" gear having high distortion and/or screwed up frequency response, it'd be tough to guess how they might sound based on those screwed up specs.

--Ethan

Which reminds me. Why do girls that sound REALLY cute over the phone end up being really overweight in person? Just another cosmic question that boggles the mind :rolleyes::D Now that was a good way to kick start my morning! Too funny! The entertainment operators are recruited from the department of corrections, lol.:p

Which reminds me. Why do girls that sound REALLY cute over the phone end up being really overweight in person? Just another cosmic question that boggles the mind :rolleyes:

Because they're necessary to answer the hot phone sex lines :D

Which reminds me. Why do girls that sound REALLY cute over the phone end up being really overweight in person?

Who says they do, as a rule?

Just another cosmic question that boggles the mind :rolleyes:

Maybe you need to talk to more girls.:p

As I mentioned in the speaker thread, trying to tell how an audio component sounds based on specs

Not 100% but it gives you a very good start, I like how some ultra high end amps will oscillate and blow out speakers because they are designed so wrong.

Is that "like" as in "derive pleasure from the pain of those richer than me" or "like" as in "generation X sarcasm for 'dislike'" ?

trying to tell how an audio component sounds based on specs is like trying to tell how a blind date will look based on measurements

If I had to choose, I think I'd rather date a 36-24-36 than a 24-36-48. That may be just me, though.

I think I'd rather date a 36-24-36 than a 24-36-48. That may be just me, though.

Classic!

http://www.ethanwiner.com/emoticons/rofl3dbig.gif

Well, i prefer: 48-24-36 spec's!

lol

yes, I like when women pay me too, whatever the form of payment.