A question I've had but haven't found an answer to...
Back in the olden days (:p) when receivers had knobs with a fixed degree of motion (<=360 degrees), it was often recommended to not turn the dial past 1 o'clock to no over strain the amp. Does this concept apply to the gain nob on a sub? Or can you safely set it to 2 o'clock, 3'oclock, etc? (this is assuming your avr is outputting a flat 0db line level)

0db on the subwoofer channel is relative to:

master volume
output voltage of the subwoofer output
and other stuff i don't know

i'm guessing there will be instances where you can crank it to 11 and be safe, and there are instances where you'll break your sub.

It would depend on how soft or loud the piece is cut but i never ran anything close
to wide open on a pre-amp/rec all amps eventually run out of headroom if you don't
limit the volume.

I'm confused. I haven't seen a gain knob with 360deg of motion. So it's possible to turn it up to -0 or maybe even + a few db depending on the amp, but an amp is only able to put out so much wattage. You can't force it to put out more.

I didn't think this would be so hard, but I'm not sure how to ask in another way. Basically: is it (generally speaking) safe to turn a sub's gain knob past 1 o'clock? I had always heard you shouldn't do this on a receiver, and I'm wondering if the same applies to subs.

Sure different subs are different, but is there a general rule of thumb on how high the gain should be set?

I think it's relative to the sub you own. I had a Sony POS 250 watt sub that the gain had to be at +8 to get any decent sounding bass (although it was mostly distortion. I also had a JBL sub that I had at +7 and it also was a POS (granted these are with my reciever sub level set at zero.

Now I own an SVS NSD12/2 and it's gain is at +3 and Onkyo reciever set at -11 and it gives me more bass than I ever could handle (geez I thought watching "Cloverfield" my house would come crashing down.)

Think of the gain on the sub as an attenuator. It works in tandem with the signal sent from the pre/pro. The goal is to get an unclipped signal coming out of the pre(AVR or separate) that allows the sub's amp to deliver as much power as needed to playback bass levels accurately. Where this balance occurs is largely room and equipment dependent, but it's generally safe to start your calibration on the negative side on the pre and between 9:00 and 11:00 on the sub gain. You want to balance the sub's output with your other speakers. It's ok to go a bit hot, 2 or 3dbs, but you need to make sure your subs amp still has headroom. If you're watching a movie at -5 from reference and your sub is calibrated 5 dbs hot, it's set to deliver 115db peaks. You might not have enough amp power to get there. Clipping or protection mode may and probably will occur.

Calibrate your sub. Get to know the balance between pre and sub. Find out when compression sets in (you keep turning it up, but it doesn't get louder). Depending on your room and gear, the sub will deliver full power at very low gain settings.

Think of the gain on the sub as an attenuator. It works in tandem with the signal sent from the pre/pro. The goal is to get an unclipped signal coming out of the pre(AVR or separate) that allows the sub's amp to deliver as much power as needed to playback bass levels accurately. Where this balance occurs is largely room and equipment dependent, but it's generally safe to start your calibration on the negative side on the pre and between 9:00 and 11:00 on the sub gain. You want to balance the sub's output with your other speakers. It's ok to go a bit hot, 2 or 3dbs, but you need to make sure your subs amp still has headroom. If you're watching a movie at -5 from reference and your sub is calibrated 5 dbs hot, it's set to deliver 115db peaks. You might not have enough amp power to get there. Clipping or protection mode may and probably will occur.

Calibrate your sub. Get to know the balance between pre and sub. Find out when compression sets in (you keep turning it up, but it doesn't get louder). Depending on your room and gear, the sub will deliver full power at very low gain settings.


As usual I have to agree with Ron. :rolleyes: :D The actual number that the gain control is set at doesn't really mean anything. As Ron mentions, there are too many variables, room size, input sensitivity, placement, and the equipment you are using. That is why it is so important that you use an spl meter and calibrate your system properly. It's the amount of output that comes out of your sub cleanly, that's important, not the exact volume setting.

Ian

As usual I have to agree with Ron. :rolleyes: :D The actual number that the gain control is set at doesn't really mean anything. As Ron mentions, there are too many variables, room size, input sensitivity, placement, and the equipment you are using. That is why it is so important that you use an spl meter and calibrate your system properly. It's the amount of output that comes out of your sub cleanly, that's important, not the exact volume setting.

Ian

Right on! I need to steal...I mean "borrow" (;) :D) this explanation. People PM me with questions regarding what "volume" is the right setting for their sub, and I end up writing a dissertation. Thanks Ian :)

Thanks everyone.
So... if you had a low powered, but clean sub, you could run it with the gain between 75% and 100% and not worry about it (assuming it's not distorting or compressing, or billowing smoke, etc), right?

This is Spinal Tap!!!!!


Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.

I turn my receiver up to 75! :D

All these numbers make me confused. db references from -0 are so much more useful ;) But not really

The numbers are completely useless, no matter how they are done, what is important is that your sub is calibrated properly.

The numbers are completely useless, no matter how they are done, what is important is that your sub is calibrated properly.

That's what I was cryptically saying.;)

This is Spinal Tap!!!!!

Yes, one of the best scenes of all time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54UU-fPIsY

Yes, one of the best scenes of all time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54UU-fPIsY

Boy, if that scene doesn't say it in a nut shell, nothing will!




Ian :D

The numbers are completely useless, no matter how they are done, what is important is that your sub is calibrated properly.

Yes, calibration is good, but cranking it to 11 is fun. :D

Yes, calibration is good, but cranking it to 11 is fun. :DNot for long :D.

Not for long :D.


http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/mailiang/Speaker_rotates.gifhttp://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/mailiang/Nuclear_explosion.gif



Ian http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/mailiang/uglyhammer.gif

Yes, calibration is good, but cranking it to 11 is fun. :D

It sounds like the way to go would be one of Martin Logans higher-line subs, the Depth, Decent, or Grotto. As they like to advertise:

Extended-Range Master Level Control
Crave a little heavy-metal thunder from time to time? Ordinary level controls top out at '10'; ours goes to '11'!