From TV Shows on DVD:After high-def success with their Blu-ray release of Justice League: The New Frontier, Warner Home Video has announced their decision to go back to the modern-day roots of the animated adventures of the team with a Blu-ray disc release of 2001's Justice League - Season 1. This package will answer the call on August 19th.

All 26 episodes running 575 minutes will come on 3 double-density "BD-50" Blu-ray discs. The list price is $59.95 (meaning you should be able to pick this up in stores around $40-$45 "street price", after retailer discounts). Other specs aren't listed yet for this release, nor are extras. The original DVD release of the first season back in March 2006 was loaded with bonus material, though, so we expect to see at least the same supplements on the Blu-ray release (and hopefully a little bit more).

Spec-wise, it's worth reminding everyone that the original DVD release was presented in 1.33:1 full-frame video, which caused a controversy among fans who debated whether the widescreen version should be available instead (at the time of the original broadcast, Cartoon Network was airing it in fullscreen for the first showing, then in widescreen on the encore showing a few days later). With this high-definition release, it ought to be a lock that fans can get this at home in widescreen at last...and high-definition widescreen to boot!
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Justice-League-Season-1-Bluray/9509

Looks like I'll be switching out another DVD for Blu-ray...

def buy for me. Can't wait.

Sweet. Warner is getting it right.
I'm more excited about this than the Paramount news. Must buy for sure.:)

But, why not the complete series? I thought they were completely finished.

I hope JLU isn't far behind. And they are starting with S1, take note... other studios releasing TV series.

Nice. Hope it's widescreen.

A complete series would end up being close to 10 discs and prohibitively expensive (if you factor in both Justice League and JL: Unlimited). Even if was just the two seasons of original Justice League, that's six discs, roughly speaking. And this set is running $60 for 3 (list)...anyone going to pay $120 (list) for 6?

(Well, besides me, of course.)

I might

Who pays MSRP?

I might

me too

Who pays MSRP?

Not it...but then I've already got mine preordered for $36. ;)

Not it...but then I've already got mine preordered for $36. ;)Where?

^ Warner store with the 25% coupon code.

Blind Buy for me.

Where?

Code is APBM8

Just look in the special buys and discount thread for these codes.

^ Warner store with the 25% coupon code.Oh, there. They suck, they have the worst customer service ever and I advise everyone against purchasing from their store.

Holy crap, getting it.

Oh, there. They suck, they have the worst customer service ever and I advise everyone against purchasing from their store.

They've been good since January. Order with Dark City: DC to get free shipping. $50 w/o tax for both.:)

Great release. I can't wait until this comes out. I hope we see the whole series on Blu-ray eventually.

Put me in for another person who wants JLU in Blu

Oh, there. They suck, they have the worst customer service ever and I advise everyone against purchasing from their store.

As shadowrage said, they've been 100% better this year. I had major issues with them last year, but I gave them another chance in February and I didn't have a single problem. Even got the items a day before street date to boot.

Count me in on this one. JL/U was one of the best animated shows in the last few years, so this will be 100% worth it to me (not to mention that I never quite saw all of seasons 1 and 2).

Hoping for an eventual release of Avatar on Blu as well. If you're a toon fan and haven't watched that show, you really need to pick it up. Great characters/storyline.

Was the Justice League TV series even originally made in HD, or with traditional film cels? We don't need another Yukikaze on our hands...

Hoping for an eventual release of Avatar on Blu as well. If you're a toon fan and haven't watched that show, you really need to pick it up. Great characters/storyline.

A friend got me into Avatar and I think it's really wonderful, but I don't think that show was made in 3D or even in widescreen. The DVD releases are all in 4:3 format.

Was the Justice League TV series even originally made in HD, or with traditional film cels? We don't need another Yukikaze on our hands...



A friend got me into Avatar and I think it's really wonderful, but I don't think that show was made in 3D or even in widescreen. The DVD releases are all in 4:3 format.

you know you can have HD without widescreen, right?

Most people, if they are going to make something in HD, they will make it in 16:9 widescreen because 720p and 1080i/p are both natively 16:9 aspect. Seeing it available only in 4:3 is often a good hint that the source is not HD, unless the animation is very old and was actually made on film using traditional cels.

Most people, if they are going to make something in HD, they will make it in 16:9 widescreen because 720p and 1080i/p are both natively 16:9 aspect. Seeing it available only in 4:3 is often a good hint that the source is not HD, unless the animation is very old and was actually made on film using traditional cels.

It's animation. It can be made hd simply enough, regardless of what it currently is. Even if it doesn't exist now, its not a stretch to have a computer output vectors of every frame. Most animation titles have nice thick black lines to make such a thing easy. (Am I the only person who thinks of these kinds of things?)

The first season was originally 4:3 and the 16:9 rebroadcasts had the bars added to the top and bottom (so would that make the original airing "open matte"?) I'm not sure how I feel about getting it with the tops and bottoms cut off, if it is indeed in widescreen.

Most people, if they are going to make something in HD, they will make it in 16:9 widescreen because 720p and 1080i/p are both natively 16:9 aspect. Seeing it available only in 4:3 is often a good hint that the source is not HD, unless the animation is very old and was actually made on film using traditional cels.

All version of the newer JL(and JLU, which will probably look better) were aired in 16:9. These are going to look awesome on BD.

The shows in the series also had a lot of big explosions and 'zooms' with superheroes pummeling each other into buildings and what not. I have my fingers crossed for a TrueHD track.

All version of the newer JL(and JLU, which will probably look better) were aired in 16:9. These are going to look awesome on BD.

The shows in the series also had a lot of big explosions and 'zooms' with superheroes pummeling each other into buildings and what not. I have my fingers crossed for a TrueHD track.
Aired and made are two different things. Season 2 and on were made in 16:9.

It's animation. It can be made hd simply enough, regardless of what it currently is. Even if it doesn't exist now, its not a stretch to have a computer output vectors of every frame. Most animation titles have nice thick black lines to make such a thing easy. (Am I the only person who thinks of these kinds of things?)

If it was that easy, don't you think they would have done it already?

Seriously. Animation gets no respect in this country. Oh, it's just animation, you can make it 3D holographic just by setting the automatic cartoon universal renderer to 3D holographic mode, and wait a few minutes, and presto! 3D holographic animation! So easy! :rolleyes:

I dont understand what the excitment is about...while I have seen animation look good in HD...the computer animation barely sees any increase at all. This is exactly why I bought the new JL movie on a combo because the difference is so baerly frickin minimal and I wanted to see it for myself...at least on my 65inch screen. However handdrawn animation looks fantastic to me in HD...but the computer stuff (I dont mean CGI), I just dont see it.

If it was that easy, don't you think they would have done it already?

Seriously. Animation gets no respect in this country. Oh, it's just animation, you can make it 3D holographic just by setting the automatic cartoon universal renderer to 3D holographic mode, and wait a few minutes, and presto! 3D holographic animation! So easy! :rolleyes:

I would love for you to describe WHY you think traditional animation can't be scanned by a computer and vectorized if given the proper software. Please, love to hear it.

tutelary, I don't know what exactly is wrong with you, but let me be clear that I will not tolerate you sending me a PM and threatening me in private because I posted disagreeing with you. Furthermore, it actually was not me who complained about anything you said to the mods, in fact when I got your PM I didn't even remember who you were until I found this thread again but you clearly aren't very smart to immediately send me a threatening PM just assuming that it was me who complained. Everyone complains to the mods about everything here at AVS Forum and in fact I have never complained to the mods about any poster myself, including you. However, even though it wasn't me who complained I have forwarded the threatening PM to a mod who will probably deal with you soon enough.

Goodbye forever, and good riddance. :rolleyes:

How the hell did this thread get out of hand? It isn't even two days old yet.:confused:

Animation 3D or 2D benefits the most from HD in my opinion. Bottom line.
The thread is about Justice League Season 1 on BD. That's so freakin cool.

Now we should all move on and pre-order these so we can have the whole set.:D And if we're really good shoppers I bet why might get Superman Doomsday by Christmas. /fingers crossed.

Awesome, now can we have Batman: The Animated Series?

I didn't know there had been a full frame vs. widescreen debate about season 1 of the Justice League. This page summarizes it nicely and very fairly:

http://jl.toonzone.net/widescreen/widescreen.htm

There doesn't seem to be an overwhelmingly "right" answer, even the animators, while they preferred widescreen, didn't seem too upset by the full frame. The article above quotes a post from Bruce Timm, the creator of Justice League:

---------
I debated pushing the issue while we were prepping the Season One set, but decided against it. I'd prefer to have Season One released in 1:85 [the aspect ratio for the show's widescreen], but since those shows were actually made in full-frame format, no visual information is actually being lost (and I argued with myself that the most "complete" version should be on DVD for posterity). From Season Two and onward it's a different story.
--------

Now that I'm aware of this issue, I think I would have preferred that season 1 blu-ray be full frame.

Now that I'm aware of this issue, I think I would have preferred that season 1 blu-ray be full frame.
Given that this season was specifically designed to allow for matting to widescreen, and given that Blu-ray is a natively widescreen format, I'd say it makes about a million times more sense for the Blu-ray release to be widescreen.

Given that this season was specifically designed to allow for matting to widescreen, and given that Blu-ray is a natively widescreen format, I'd say it makes about a million times more sense for the Blu-ray release to be widescreen.

I don't see the relevance of Blu-ray's native dimension to this question. It's the dimension of the content that matters, not the medium on which the content is displayed. And in the case of season 1, the content in question was actually drawn for BOTH full frame or widescreen. You could just as correctly say the season was "specifically designed to allow for full screen" as you can for widescreen. That's what makes this question unusual from the usual widescreen vs. full screen because in this case, there is no right choice, the glass is half-full or half-empty. That's not the case for subsequent seasons, which was specifically drawn in a widescreen dimension.

I don't see the relevance of Blu-ray's native dimension to this question. It's the dimension of the content that matters, not the medium on which the content is displayed. And in the case of season 1, the content in question was actually drawn for BOTH full frame or widescreen. You could just as correctly say the season was "specifically designed to allow for full screen" as you can for widescreen.
They planned this show with an eye to the future, when all TVs would be widescreen. That future has arrived. Blu-ray is a widescreen format, made for watching on widescreen TVs. It would make absolutely no sense to release a pillarboxed Blu-ray of a show produced with widescreen in mind.

That's what makes this question unusual from the usual widescreen vs. full screen because in this case, there is no right choice, the glass is half-full or half-empty. That's not the case for subsequent seasons, which was specifically drawn in a widescreen dimension.
No, this isn't really unusual at all, since it happens all the time with 1.85:1 live action films. Most of them are filmed on negatives with a 1.33:1 aspect ratio, and then matted to 1.85:1 for theaters, DVD, and Blu-ray. The mattes are often opened up to 1.33:1 for fullscreen transfers.

Would you argue that the 1.33:1 aspect ratio is an equally valid one for these movies, and that the fullscreen transfer should be made available on a pillarboxed Blu-ray? Of course not.

Look, I don't know whether you're being deliberately obtuse, argumentative for argument's sake or just haven't bothered to take the time to read up on this. You're raising objections that simply don't apply to this animated season and you're making statements that simply aren't true.

Season 1 is a curious anomoly because both the full frame and the widescreen version are valid. The episodes were drawn full frame and were initially shown on the air in full frame (this is never the case with live action movies, which are never shown full frame theatrically). But the animators preferred the widescreen look because it looked more "cinematic" and they convinced the network to show the reruns with the matting that covered up the image on the top and bottom.

That's why I don't have a strong preference either way. The full frame doesn't distort or ruin the composition of the image - which is one of the problems with full frame with live action movies - nor does it expose areas of the frame that weren't intended to be shown. In fact, the full frame version is the how it was first broadcast on TV. It isn't a bastardization of the widescreen image, it has as legitimate a claim to being the "right" format as the widescreen. The animators have expressed a preference for the widescreen look and I respect that.

Your analogy to live action movies is apples-to-oranges. I don't know where you've picked up this notion that season 1 was "produced with widescreen" in mind. That's simply not true. If season 1 was "produced with widescreen," it would have been drawn as widescreen but it wasn't (this is animation, you can draw in the dimension you want, you don't have to spend time, money and effort to draw it full frame, then cover it up)! The fact that it was animated as full frame, then originally broadcast in full frame, demonstrates that the full frame version is completely legitimate. It is not an ugly cousin to widescreen.

And as I said before, the subsequent seasons were drawn in a widescreen format. They were broadcast with the black bars on the top and bottom, although because it was animated as a widescreen image, those black bars weren't covering up anything. They were purely for effect. For these later seasons, it's unquestionable that widescreen is the right format and and they should be broadcast and released on video in widescreen. All I'm saying is that season 1 is curious because both the full frame and widescreen versions are equally legitimate for their own reasons, which is in fact unusual. If you want to continue squabbling over what I thought was an uncontroversial observation, go ahead. I've got nothing more to say.

Why they can't just issue 2 discs in the set is beyond me. Please everyone.
For the record this issue was hotly debated in the cartoon download community well before the seasons started appearing on dvd. The consensus was that the widescreen season 1 was a crop and therefore the full frame season 1 became the standard (the widescreen rips did exist however).

Look, I don't know whether you're being deliberately obtuse, argumentative for argument's sake or just haven't bothered to take the time to read up on this. You're raising objections that simply don't apply to this animated season and you're making statements that simply aren't true.
All of that applies to you, not me.

Season 1 is a curious anomoly because both the full frame and the widescreen version are valid. The episodes were drawn full frame and were initially shown on the air in full frame (this is never the case with live action movies, which are never shown full frame theatrically). But the animators preferred the widescreen look because it looked more "cinematic" and they convinced the network to show the reruns with the matting that covered up the image on the top and bottom.
You seem to be under the false impression that the animators completed the entire first season before ever even thinking about making it widescreen. That's not how it happened. They went into the production of the season knowing that they would be making both widescreen and fullscreen versions, and they did this specifically because they knew widescreen was the future. It was a very smart, forward-thinking decision.

Yes, 1.85:1 live action movies are not shown full frame theatrically, but they are still often composed with "safe areas" above and below the frame, to allow for opening up the matte to 1.33:1 later. In those cases, the directors prefer the widescreen look, just as the animators do in the case of Justice League season one.

That's why I don't have a strong preference either way. The full frame doesn't distort or ruin the composition of the image - which is one of the problems with full frame with live action movies - nor does it expose areas of the frame that weren't intended to be shown. In fact, the full frame version is the how it was first broadcast on TV. It isn't a bastardization of the widescreen image, it has as legitimate a claim to being the "right" format as the widescreen. The animators have expressed a preference for the widescreen look and I respect that.
Of course the animators prefer the widescreen look -- because they composed everything to look best in widescreen. Yes, both versions work, but the composition is superior in widescreen -- and when you have a widescreen HDTV, why on earth would you want to watch the full frame version sandwiched in the middle of two pillarbox bars?

I don't know where you've picked up this notion that season 1 was "produced with widescreen" in mind. That's simply not true. If season 1 was "produced with widescreen," it would have been drawn as widescreen but it wasn't (this is animation, you can draw in the dimension you want, you don't have to spend time, money and effort to draw it full frame, then cover it up)!
Where did I pick up this notion? Oh, just from the creator of the show, Bruce Timm.

It's a fact that they animated it "with widescreen in mind." Why this language confuses you is beyond me. It simply means that they composed everything so that it would work (and look better) in widescreen. They kept all the important action in the central widescreen area of the frame, so that the areas on top and bottom (which often contained empty backgrounds, especially at the top above the characters' heads) could be safely matted or cropped away.

They discuss this on the DVD commentary for "The Enemy Below," and in the featurettes, you can clearly see the storyboards which have the widescreen area marked inside the full frame. Every person drawing this season was conscious that there would be a widescreen version.

In fact, the same creative team used first employed this process on Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker.

The fact that it was animated as full frame, then originally broadcast in full frame, demonstrates that the full frame version is completely legitimate. It is not an ugly cousin to widescreen.
So? We're discussing how these episodes will be presented on Blu-ray, a widescreen format meant for viewing on widescreen displays. Again, it would be ridiculous to have anything but the widescreen versions on the Blu-ray.

And as I said before, the subsequent seasons were drawn in a widescreen format. They were broadcast with the black bars on the top and bottom, although because it was animated as a widescreen image, those black bars weren't covering up anything. They were purely for effect. For these later seasons, it's unquestionable that widescreen is the right format and and they should be broadcast and released on video in widescreen.
The black bars weren't "for effect" -- they were there to letterbox the image and preserve the widescreen aspect ratio.

All I'm saying is that season 1 is curious because both the full frame and widescreen versions are equally legitimate for their own reasons, which is in fact unusual. If you want to continue squabbling over what I thought was an uncontroversial observation, go ahead. I've got nothing more to say.
I was just disagreeing with your preference that the season one Blu-ray be fullframe, which I actually consider to be very controversial, and I explained why.

So? We're discussing how these episodes will be presented on Blu-ray, a widescreen format meant for viewing on widescreen displays. Again, it would be ridiculous to have anything but the widescreen versions on the Blu-ray.


Eww. Did you think pan & scan VHS tapes were preferable also? I don't care what the format of the screen is, OAR is the way to go IMO. Should 1.66:1 movies be cropped as well?

Eww. Did you think pan & scan VHS tapes were preferable also? I don't care what the format of the screen is, OAR is the way to go IMO. Should 1.66:1 movies be cropped as well?
:rolleyes: Learn how to read. Widescreen is one of the two OARs for Justice League season one, and it's also the AR that the animators prefer.

:rolleyes: Learn how to read. Widescreen is one of the two OARs for Justice League season one, and it's also the AR that the animators prefer.

Seems pretty poor considering the screenshot here...

http://jl.toonzone.net/widescreen/003.jpg

Their heads are chopped off!

Seems pretty poor considering the screenshot here...

http://jl.toonzone.net/widescreen/003.jpg

Their heads are chopped off!
That's a brief frame in the middle of an action scene.

This screenshot is much more representative of the typical difference in composition:

http://jl.toonzone.net/widescreen/002.jpg

Your posts are textbook examples of the deterioration of these forums. I expressed the mild opinion that, given the choice between two legitimate framings, I prefer the one with more image. This provokes an obnoxious declaration from you that Your Opinion is "a million times" more sensible than mine. None of this "reasonable people can disagree" for you, huh?

Get this clear: "animated with widescreen in mind" is not the same as "animated SOLELY with widescreen in mind." I've said several times widescreen was preferred by the creators but what you bizarrely can't admit is that season 1 was ALSO animated with full screen in mind too. The full frame version is as legitimate and valid a version as the widescreen. The animators may prefer widescreen and animated with the widescreen in mind but they have never disavowed the full frame version as illegitimate or attacked it as a corruption of their artistic intent.

Not once did I suggest the widescreen was wrong, not once did I suggest it was less legitimate. I just expressed a personal preference for the full screen because it also reflects the artistic vision of the creators and given the choice between seeing more or less of their great artwork, I prefer more. To which you respond with an napalm attack.

If you want to see how a courteous and magnanimous response looks like, re-read Bruce Timm's quote which I posted above. He says he prefers widescreen for season 1 but basically shrugs his shoulders and says he can see the case for full screen for season 1 and he can live with a decision to show it full frame. It's too bad your responses haven't had an ounce of that same open-mindedness and willingness to accept the merits of an different opinion.

It doesn't matter, it is Blu-Ray, JL has a widescreen version, thus, it MUST be widescreen or no sale from me.

It doesn't matter, it is Blu-Ray, JL has a widescreen version, thus, it MUST be widescreen or no sale from me.

Press the little button on your tv remote to make it stretch, and go on with your life. I promise, it wont destroy the world.

I vote they release it in 16x9, since it's what the creators prefer, and it will match much better with subsequent seasons. Everyone who wants the compromise (yet still safe) 4x3 composition can lobby for a separate release. Obviously, we're not talking about something like the debacle of Kung Fu on DVD, where they clearly compromised the integrity of the original, intended, 4x3 composition.

I think at this point the studios are really not interested in releasing both full-screen and widescreen editions of everything like on DVD, even for unusual cases like this. They are probably tired of catering to the neanderthals on DVD and will push for one aspect ratio per release on all titles.

Either way, if JL on BD is 16x9 or 4x3, I'm buying for sure. Many of the episodes had horrrible transfers, some were spectacular. I'd also rather have widescreen for this series.

As for JL/U, the DVD looks amazing upscaled on my 1080p plasma (Pio 5010). The PS3 video options like mosquito noise reduction helps big time as well. But tHe price on the JL/U BD would have to be significantly low in price, perhaps even lower than the DVD set for me to double dip on this series...

Nevertheless, unbelievably amazing cartoons. The creators of JL and JL/U are absolute geniuses. I'd like to see them work on some Marvel animation series ;)

Awesome, now can we have Batman: The Animated Series?

+1

I'm not sure how reliable it is, but Amazon has JLA Season 1 Blu-ray up for pre-order now, and they're showing the aspect ratio as 1.33:1, 3 discs, all regions.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018TNMCA

Amazon is generally not reliable for tech specs. However, once something becomes available for pre-order on Amazon, that is generally a 100% indicator it exists and will be released soon.

Press the little button on your tv remote to make it stretch, and go on with your life. I promise, it wont destroy the world.

It is still Blu-Ray though. DVD, fine, but Blu-Ray should never be anything but widescreen. That is the point of high def. Plus it has already been proven that you can easily crop an image into widescreen with perfection. Anyway, if this isn't in Blu-Ray, then there is no point in rebuying it.

It is still Blu-Ray though. DVD, fine, but Blu-Ray should never be anything but widescreen. That is the point of high def.Woah, there, hoss. Gotta disagree with you vehemently there. In this particular instance I think widescreen is the right choice, but I would never, EVER support altering an Academy (1.33:1 ratio) movie to widescreen.

Would you seriously advocate lopping off the top and bottom of Gone with the Wind or Wizard of Oz, just to fill your screen? That's as bad as a "fullscreen DVD." :(

No wonder the studios are skittish about putting out 1.33:1 content on Blu-ray. I hope this attitude passes away soon.

It is still Blu-Ray though. DVD, fine, but Blu-Ray should never be anything but widescreen. That is the point of high def. Plus it has already been proven that you can easily crop an image into widescreen with perfection. Anyway, if this isn't in Blu-Ray, then there is no point in rebuying it.

Absurd. The material is full screen material.
So you expect Casablanca to be widescreen as well?
Not everything was originally sourced as WS. Get over it.

High def isn't about things being in widescreen, it's about the truest representation of source material on new consumer media.

Cropping something that is originally full frame to WS is just as evil as cropping something originally WS to full frame. There is no "perfection" there, you're losing image.

Anyone older than 4 can understand this concept.

Absurd. The material is full screen material.


Is not. The series has a very cinematic feel. And the creators prefer the widescreen composition.

Is not. The series has a very cinematic feel. And the creators prefer the widescreen composition.

ahahah. "Is not". Thats why the full frame season exists, right?

This has been done to death by people other than you already. The cartoon community considers the full frame season 1 the standard. The blu set is being issued in full frame. Guess why?

Your opinion cannot change the reality of the season being full frame to begin with. End of story.

ahahah. "Is not". Thats why the full frame season exists, right?

This has been done to death by people other than you already. The cartoon community considers the full frame season 1 the standard. The blu set is being issued in full frame. Guess why?

Your opinion cannot change the reality of the season being full frame to begin with. End of story.Actually, the creators' preferred ratio was widescreen and most fans support that. Here's what Bruce Timm says:i debated pushing this issue while we were prepping the season one set, but decided against it....i'd PREFER to have season one released in 1:85, but since those shows were actually made in full-frame format, no visual information is actually being lost (and i argued with myself that the most "complete" version should be on dvd for posterity)
http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1997412&postcount=16

As to whether Warner listened this time or not...

ahahah. "Is not". Thats why the full frame season exists, right?

This has been done to death by people other than you already. The cartoon community considers the full frame season 1 the standard. The blu set is being issued in full frame. Guess why?

Your opinion cannot change the reality of the season being full frame to begin with. End of story.

WTF?? is up your....???:confused: Here's my guess as to 'Why??'

"Featuring 26 episodes spread across three BD-50 dual-layer discs, video comes in 1080p/VC-1 (at 1.78:1),
with Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround audio (no high-res option is provided) and subtitles in English, French, and Spanish." - Warner specs up on HDD

I could swear that means widescreen. Then again my opinion could totally be influencing Warner's S1 encode.;)

Thanks for playing...I think. Pwned(I am referring to the set, it's widescreen with surround sound, so I am definitely buying).

BTW-tutelary your right on about Speed Racer, it's the most unique film ever. My most wanted BD now, I want to see it again. To bad there won't be a sequel. $20mil??

Actually, the creators' preferred ratio was widescreen and most fans support that. Here's what Bruce Timm says:
http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1997412&postcount=16

As to whether Warner listened this time or not...

You really screwed the pooch with that bold.
THIS is what should have been in bold:
but since those shows were actually made in full-frame format, no visual information is actually being lost (and i argued with myself that the most "complete" version should be on dvd for posterity)

I want whatever the creators intended for me to see. If they want to cover up on pair of eyes in a single frame, then so be it. It's not up to anyone to tell the creators how to compose their work.

Shouldn't they be able to go in and change the composition for the BD release?

I guess full frame is 'COMPLETE' in the sense that there is more picture information. But in my world artistry counts more, the widescreen is part of the art the creators wanted to convey.

Casablanca was made to be shown full screen. Did they even have a wide angle lense? And Wizard of Oz isn't appealing in any medium, so please do inform me when they butcher that(WoO-most over rated anything ever). Fred Savage is still cool though.

I want whatever the creators intended for me to see. If they want to cover up on pair of eyes in a single frame, then so be it. It's not up to anyone to tell the creators how to compose their work.

Shouldn't they be able to go in and change the composition for the BD release?

I guess full frame is 'COMPLETE' in the sense that there is more picture information. But in my world artistry counts more, the widescreen is part of the art the creators wanted to convey.

Yeah, I'll be sure to notify you when they butcher Casablanca, Wizard of Oz, etc.
And it wont be "one pair of eyes in a single frame". There will be any huge number of small instances of things like that.

You really screwed the pooch with that bold.
THIS is what should have been in bold:
but since those shows were actually made in full-frame format, no visual information is actually being lost (and i argued with myself that the most "complete" version should be on dvd for posterity):confused:

How did I screw the pooch by mentioning the director's intent? Your misquote is is worthless, as was your (now deleted) rant on full-frame sources always being the complete version. By that rationale, every movie shot in a different framing than it's presentation should never have been shown in widescreen, even if everyone signed off on it.

The intent is clear, and not just from one quote. It's from the way the show has continued, it's from Warner's admission of error.

Yeah, I'll be sure to notify you when they butcher Casablanca, Wizard of Oz, etc.
And it wont be "one pair of eyes in a single frame". There will be any huge number of small instances of things like that.

You have completely misunderstood the situation, and seem determined to fight tooth and nail over your misconception.

In this case, the full frame version was the compromised version. All of the composition is obviously optimized for widescreen. That is the ratio that the creators prefer. It is clearly the preferable ratio after comparing the two during their initial broadcasts. It is incredibly easy to take a still screenshot that misrepresents this fact; watch any program with panning camera moves and you will find frames you can pause on that look like they are cropped. This is the case even when a program is presented in the exact ratio it was originally filmed at.

This is NO different than any movie that was composed for widescreen theatrical viewing but filmed at 1.33:1 to allow easier non-widescreen television exhibition by "unmasking" it. The thing is, this additional picture information serves no purpose when the viewer properly understands the intent of the creator. It is only there to prevent people that are uneducated about aspect ratios from complaining that "there is part of the picture missing".

The additional argument in this case seems to have spread from a misguided attempt of technical animation purists to preserve the small strip of animation that gets masked off at the top and the bottom, at the expense of the artistry of the composition of the frame. IMO, this "additional information" should simply be considered a wasteful by-product of the process that was necessary at the time that these were made. If the show's creators prefer it the other way, and it was intended to be seen that way from the start, who are you to condemn it?

I am just thankful that we are now living in a time where the studios usually don't let uninformed or misinformed people (like tutelary) corrupt the presentation of their work by forcing them to modify it to exactly fit the ratio of their screen. Again, this is NOT the case with Justice League as widescreen was always intended to be the optimal aspect ratio.

This is NO different than any movie that was composed for widescreen theatrical viewing but filmed at 1.33:1 to allow easier non-widescreen television exhibition by "unmasking" it. The thing is, this additional picture information serves no purpose when the viewer properly understands the intent of the creator. It is only there to prevent people that are uneducated about aspect ratios from complaining that "there is part of the picture missing".


That isn't true. It's COMPLETELY different. When a movie is filmed, the director and DP can essentially "ignore" the area outside the frame they are composing for. Boom mic there? Doesn't matter. When it comes to animation, they are actually CREATING more of the image and animating it. There is alot of work going on in that area that nobody is supposedly supposed to see. Why not only create what they intend people to see and do a 1.33:1 extraction out of it? I mean, did they go through the trouble of doing all of this extra work for Justice League : Unlimited, which was always shown letterboxed? I'd be surprised if they did.

The difference here is that one of the producers thinks it looks cool in widescreen and prefers that (kinda like how James Cameron prefers the 1.33:1 version of The Abyss when viewed at home). Personally, if they are ok with that, I would prefer an anamorphic image as well. But, I'm not about to call the 1.33:1 version "wrong" or "invalid".

Right now, the rear box art that tvshowsondvd.com has up has the aspect ratio listed as 1.33:1, so we'll see what we get....