I have been looking at the different lines that SVS and Hsu have. I am having a hard time deciding between choosing SVS or Hsu, Obviously since I cant audition them readily. The subs I am looking at are the pbplus/2 or 20-39 pc plus Vs. HSU: VTF MK3 with MBM. I have about 1000.00 for the budget and would be using the sub 70% Movies and 30% music. Please let me know preferences.


FYI:

Set up is Maratnz sr5600 and MA Rs6s Fronts with Infinty center and rears.

Sorry,

Room size is almost cubed at 14x14x15 (2940cf) a vaulted ceiling with one side opened up to the kitchen.

I'd narrow it down to the PB12 Plus/2 or the VTF 3.3 + MBM. The single 20-39 PCi won't come close to the other two in output. As for the two "finalists," I think both will give you a very good HT experience. The Plus/2 has tons of deep, powerful bass output. From personal experience I can highly recommend SVS, not only for their products, but for their service as well. However, most any Hsu owner will (rightly) say the same of Hsu. I really don't think you can go wrong either way. My preference would probably be the Plus/2, but the 3.3/MBM combo would be extremely potent as well. Again, I think it's a win/win situation :).

LALAKERSFAN,


Thanks for the input, I look to make the purchase in the next 10 days. Leaning towards SVS but am intrigued with the MBM 12.

I have been looking at the different lines that SVS and Hsu have. I am having a hard time deciding between choosing SVS or Hsu, Obviously since I cant audition them readily. The subs I am looking at are the pbplus/2 or 20-39 pc plus Vs. HSU: VTF MK3 with MBM. I have about 1000.00 for the budget and would be using the sub 70% Movies and 30% music. Please let me know preferences.


FYI:

Set up is Maratnz sr5600 and MA Rs6s Fronts with Infinty center and rears.

The 20-39 pc plus is not in the same league as the PB12 Plus/2 or the HSU: VTF-3 MK3 + MBM-12.

Although the VTF-3 MK3 is about a wash in comparison to the PB12 Plus/2; However the VTF-3 MK3 with the addition of an MBM-12 is way more powerful than the PB12 Plus/2.

I have the VTF-3 MK3 with Turbo matted to an MBM-12 in a huge room, that opens up into a huge kitchen and a large foyer. And the 3.3 and MBM performance are purely amazing.

LALAKERSFAN,


Thanks for the input, I look to make the purchase in the next 10 days. Leaning towards SVS but am intrigued with the MBM 12.

I'd also recommend contacting both companies and talking with them. See what they think of your situation.

As for the opinion of a single Hsu VTF3 Mk3 keeping up with a PB12 Plus/2, I'll have to respectfully disagree. The 3.3 is a great sub, no question, but it won't hang with a Plus/2 in terms of raw output. The 3.3 is much closer to a single driver PB12 Plus in output, though I'd give a slight edge to the 3.3. Paired with the MBM, though, it will probably be pretty close to the Plus/2, depending on placement and other in-room factors.

Concerning the MBM, keep in mind that the MBM can be used with any subwoofer - it doesn't have to be with a Hsu (though most people that use them are Hsu owners). If you had a Plus/2 in that room, I'd highly doubt you'd want or need any more bass, BUT if you so desired, you could always use an MBM with the Plus/2.

Once again, both options will likely produce very good results.

Take a look at Craigsub's RANKING and comparison between the two subs:

SVS PB12-Plus/2 ($1299 ID): 87 points (47-40)

Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo ($699 ID): 91 points (45-46)(And this review is based upon the 3.3's old amp. The NEW amp is a lot stronger.)

Adding the MBM-12 Mid-bass Module to that, puts it in another stratosphere.

Make your decision based upon hard facts not people's opinions. I too almost fell for that. Members here were trying to sell me on their personal favorites, including those who didn't even have the particular sub that they were pushing.

However, upon doing my own research I eventually made the right choice.

blulover,
Whether or not the hsu or svs is better sounding was not the question, the output was. I know for a fact the SVS plus/2 can hit 120 db's placed nearfield(25 hz). I used to own it. If the Hsu 3.3 can do the same then yes, they are equal. Adding the MBM-12 to it will not make that number increase(output) but give a more punch effect at the higher frequencies(50-150). Since you are using Craigsubs ranking you should also note that he said that the MBM-12 MAY be an enhancement for subs. It depends on the situation.
Do you know what the max spl on the 3.3 is? What frequency?

BTW if we are to use the rankings alone then why not suggest the castle or MFW-15, according to the list they are head and shoulders above both. I know he did not mention other subs.

Personally I think craigsubs rankings are flawed. I dont care about the math mumbo jumbo he spits out. I think he gets paid under the table. He has single handedly put mfw on the map by saying that since they advertise the pair that he could rank them higher then they deserve to be. You guys are suckers if you think the HSU subs rank above the svs +/2. I have heard both in my home and even without the fancy equipment it was obvious which was better.
Now he has his own site/company and he wouldnt be in this position if it wernt for the free advertising he gets from this site. He has a buisness plan and its easy to see that we have all been duped into buying from a company, and having to wait months for the product. Tell me that he isnt a sweet talker.

Personally I think craigsubs rankings are flawed. I dont care about the math mumbo jumbo he spits out. I think he gets paid under the table. He has single handedly put mfw on the map by saying that since they advertise the pair that he could rank them higher then they deserve to be. You guys are suckers if you think the HSU subs rank above the svs +/2. I have heard both in my home and even without the fancy equipment it was obvious which was better.
Now he has his own site/company and he wouldnt be in this position if it wernt for the free advertising he gets from this site. He has a buisness plan and its easy to see that we have all been duped into buying from a company, and having to wait months for the product. Tell me that he isnt a sweet talker.

I don't know that I'd question Craig's integrity in that way. I really do think he tried to implement fair ratings to the best of his abilities. However, people take his rankings as THE answer, while Craig himself put disclaimers all over the place to the effect of "these were OUR preferences, but others might come to other, valid, conclusions themselves." It's become a list that people use to justify their purchases, saying "my sub is 2 points higher than that one, it must stomp all over it :D." Many respectable people who have experience with many different subs have come to different conclusions in how they would "rank" the subs on the list. The fact of the matter is, his ranking isn't "right" or "wrong" - it's the opinion of Craig and a few listeners that got together, listened to a ton of subs, and made a ranking of how they would rank them as a guide to help others. He doesn't claim it's a perfect list, but it is a helpful resource. Hopefully it isn't the ONLY resource people use when picking a sub ;).

blulover,
Whether or not the hsu or svs is better sounding was not the question, the output was. I know for a fact the SVS plus/2 can hit 120 db's placed nearfield(25 hz). I used to own it. If the Hsu 3.3 can do the same then yes, they are equal. Adding the MBM-12 to it will not make that number increase(output) but give a more punch effect at the higher frequencies(50-150). Since you are using Craigsubs ranking you should also note that he said that the MBM-12 MAY be an enhancement for subs. It depends on the situation.
Do you know what the max spl on the 3.3 is? What frequency?

BTW if we are to use the rankings alone then why not suggest the castle or MFW-15, according to the list they are head and shoulders above both. I know he did not mention other subs.

Hi MK

The SVS-Plus/2 is tuned to 25Hz, that's why it has so much output between 25-50Hz. The HSU 3.3 tuned to 16Hz, (using the switch on the back), did 112 db at 20Hz in the test by Howard Ferstler. I must make it clear that this was with the Turbo, that costs an extra $100 plus shipping. For people who are interested in maximum output in the bottom octave, the 3.3 Turbo can keep up with the SVS PB-12 Plus/2 because of the different emphasis on the part of the respective designers.

IMHO, a combination of the 3.3 Turbo plus the MBM-12 gives you the best of both worlds. Maximum output in the lowest octave, plus a dedicated mid-bass sub that has a purpose built light-weight cone and its own 350 amplifier, for the 50-80 Hz region. It is also much easier to situate the MBM nearfield since it is about 40% smaller than the Plus/2.

I know that the Plus/2 is extremely potent around 35-40Hz. That is where it really shows its stuff.

Just to be clear, the Ferstler VTF 3.3 measurement of 112dB at 20hz is also in-room, which means there was probably a lot of room gain. My modest dual PB10-NSD setup gave me about 106dB (uncorrected, Radio Shack SPL meter) with a 20hz sine wave at my LP. That's up well over 110dB once you correct the values with Radio Shack SPL meter correction tables. 2m GP tests I've seen put the 3.3 more in the 100, maybe 102dB range at 20hz. Not to take anything from the Hsu, as it is universally known to be a superb subwoofer. I believe that it probably is more potent than the Plus/2 way down deep (say 16hz). I also think the 3.3 + MBM is likely an extremely powerful combo. I just don't want people taking that "112dB @ 20hz" measurement out of context. I don't even think a Conquest will be that high 2m GP @ 20hz.

I owned the PC 20-39+ 12.2 and the VTF3 MKII (VTF2 MKIII now) .

I preferred the VTF3 MKII. My room was 22 x 28 . The VTF3 was less boomy. The only negative it had was the floorspace it took up.

Both models have been revised officially and unofficially since then.

Seems a win-win. There are other companies out there too.

I did not find Craig's reviews manipulative. Just like Secret's DVD benchmarks, people clamour for a points system.
Why? Because they are stupid and lazy ;). They are not willing to accept that there is a lot of grey area and one should learn what the testing and graphs mean.

The dumbing down of the enthusiast is a pet peeve of mine and I am not one of the smart guys either.

I did use to run the Plus/2 in 16 hz mode as well. It sound better in this mode. I would hit 116 db's in this mode watching WOTW pod emerging. I don't know what frequency but it dig much deeper with authority. This was also nearfield(same location). I have no doubt the Hsu is a great performer and I like the idea of a MBM-12(hell, I used 2 folded horn 18 inch subs that hit over 130 db's in the 50-150 range) so I know all about it.

I am just curious as they are both being mentioned in this thread, but has anyone ever tried a MBM-12 with a Plus/2?

BTW if we are to use the rankings alone then why not suggest the castle or MFW-15, according to the list they are head and shoulders above both. I know he did not mention other subs.

Why not? Because that's my job. Here it goes:
Castle or dual mfw-15s over plus/2 any day. And a7-450 as well.

net of shipping, my recommendations:

B-stock PB13 Ultra 1200+USD
dual HSU 3.3 1200bucks
PB12Plus or PC 20-39 Plus 800+USD
PB12 Plus/2 950+-USD